PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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`SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT )
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`AMERICA, LLC, )
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` Petitioner, )
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` ) No. IPR2015-00396
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`v. ) IPR2015-00476
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` ) IPR2015-00533
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`APLIX IP HOLDINGS CORPORATION,)
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` Patent Owner. )
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` COMBINED DEPOSITIONS OF PENG LIM
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` TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 2016
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` AND
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` WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 27, 2016
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` SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
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` DEBORAH MAYER, CSR 9654, RPR CRR CRP CLR
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` MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES (800) 280-3376
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 1
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`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT )
`
`AMERICA, LLC, )
`
` Petitioner, )
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` ) No. IPR2015-00396
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`v. ) IPR2015-00476
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` ) IPR2015-00533
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`APLIX IP HOLDINGS CORPORATION,)
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` Patent Owner. )
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` COMBINED DEPOSITIONS OF PENG LIM
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` TUESDAY, JANUARY 26, 2016
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` AND
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` WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 27, 2016
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` SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA
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` DEBORAH MAYER, CSR 9654, RPR CRR CRP CLR
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` MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES (800) 280-3376
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 1
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`
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 2
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` BE IT REMEMBERED, pursuant to the laws
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`governing the taking and use of depositions, that on
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`Tuesday, January 26, 2016, 9:09 a.m. - 4:32 p.m., and on
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`Wednesday, January 27, 2016, 9:01 a.m. - 11:32 a.m., at
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`Combs Reporting Inc., 595 Market Street, Suite 620,
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`San Francisco, California, 94105, before me,
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`Deborah Mayer, a Certified Shorthand Reporter for the
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`State of California, there personally appeared:
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` PENG LIM,
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`called as a witness by the Petitioner, who, being by me
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`first duly sworn/affirmed, was thereupon examined and
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`testified as hereinafter set forth.
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 2
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`Page 3
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`FOR PETITIONER SONY COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT
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`AMERICA, LLC:
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` ERISE IP
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` BY: ABRAN KEAN, ESQ.
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` 560 Greenwood Plaza Boulevard, Suite 200
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` Greenwood Village, CO 80111
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` (720) 689-5440
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` abran.kean@eriseip.com
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`FOR PATENT OWNER APLIX IP HOLDINGS CORPORATION:
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` MAURIEL KAPOUYTIAN WOODS LLP
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` BY: JASON BARTLETT, ESQ.
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` 1517 North Point Street, Suite 454
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` San Francisco, CA 94123
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` (415) 992-3423
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` jbartlett@mkwllp.com
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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` CALLIE PENDERGRASS, Senior Technical Advisor,
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` ERISE IP
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 3
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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` I N D E X
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`Page 4
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`Witness: Page
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`PENG LIM, VOLS. I AND II
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. KEAN 5
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. KEAN 192
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. BARTLETT 238
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` E X H I B I T S
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`Petitioner's: Page
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`Exhibit 1001 '892 Patent (previously marked 37
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` and retained by counsel.)
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`Exhibit 1005 Tu references (previously marked 196
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` and retained by counsel).
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`Exhibit 1007 Kerr reference (previously 224
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` marked and retained by counsel.)
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`Exhibit 2009 Sworn declaration 5
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` (previously marked and retained
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` by counsel).
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 4
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 5
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`(Tuesday, 1-26-2016, 9:09 a.m. - 4:32 p.m.)
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`(Witness sworn.)
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` EXAMINATION
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`BY MR. KEAN:
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` Q. Please state your name for the record.
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` A. My name is Peng Lim.
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` Q. And Mr. Lim, is there any reason that would
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`prevent you from testifying fully and truthfully today?
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` A. No.
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` Q. And you're here today in connection with two
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`matters. One is IPR 2015-00729, and that concerns U.S.
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`Patent number 7,280,097. And the second matter we'll be
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`discussing today is IPR 2015-00730, and that concerns
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`U.S. Patent number 7,932,892. Are you familiar with
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`those proceedings?
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` A. Yes, I am.
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` Q. And will you understand me today if I refer to
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`them as the '097 proceeding and the '892 proceeding?
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` A. Yes.
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` (Exhibit 2009 previously marked.)
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` Q. I'm going to hand you, Mr. Lim, what's
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`previously been marked as Exhibit 2009. This is in the
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`'097 matter.
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` A. Um hum.
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` Q. While we're at it, I'll hand you the '892
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 5
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 6
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`matter as well.
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` Do you recognize these two documents?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. What are they?
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` A. '097. The other one is '892.
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` Q. And these are your sworn declarations in those
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`two proceedings, is that right?
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` A. That's correct, that's my declaration. I'm
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`sorry, I should state that.
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` Q. Before we get started on those today, are there
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`any corrections or changes that you'd like as to make in
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`those documents?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Okay, what are those changes?
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` A. Okay, let's start with my '097 declaration. If
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`you may, please, turn to page 28. And on the
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`paragraph -- paragraph 86, right on the last line, right
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`above paragraph 87 --
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. -- it says, the last sentence, it says:
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` "Exhibit 1001 at Claim 1, Claim 16," and
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` I would like to add, "and Claim 27."
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. And the reason I've added Claim 27 is because
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`Claim 27 is also an independent Claim that I just forgot
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 6
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 7
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`to add that.
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` Q. Okay. Any other changes in the '097
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`Declaration?
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` A. Yes, page 42 please. Paragraph 97 first line
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`it says:
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` "In addition, Nishiumi does not disclose
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` the input processor." That's a typo.
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` Actually, it should be "input controller."
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`(Reporter clarification.)
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` THE WITNESS: N-I-S-H-I-U-M-I.
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` A. All right. One more.
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`BY MR. KEAN:
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` Q. Go ahead.
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` A. Okay. Back to page 32. On the subheading 4 it
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`says:
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` "Dependent Claims 5, 9, and 30,
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` configured to optimize a biomechanical
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` effect of the human user's thumb and
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` finger,"
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` I would like to add the word in between
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`"user's" and "thumb," "opposing." And it would read:
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` "...human user's opposing thumb and
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` finger."
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` And the reason that was added, because that's
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`the word that's used in Claim 5, I believe 19 and 30 as
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 7
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 8
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`well. So it means when I typed that subtitle.
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` Q. That's paragraph 72, is that right?
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` A. Also in paragraph 72, that's right.
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`Subtitle 4 --
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. -- and line 2 on paragraph 74.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. So they're two places.
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` Q. Thank you. Any other changes to the '097
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`Declaration?
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` A. That's it. That's all, '097.
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` Q. Do you have any changes you'd like to make in
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`the '892 declaration?
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` A. Yes. Page 39 on '892, paragraph 88, same
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`thing. On line 1 it says "input processor."
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` I would like to change "processor" to
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`"controller," same as '097.
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` Q. Okay. Any other changes in the '892
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`declaration?
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` A. That's all I can see right now.
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` Q. Okay. And before we went on the record this
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`morning you mentioned that you have some notes that
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`you're going to be referencing throughout the day today,
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`is that right?
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` A. Yes.
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 8
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 9
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` Q. What are those notes?
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` A. They are references in the binder, not all, but
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`all the references that's relevant to this case.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. Both are my declarations, '097 and '892, and
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`some notes that are on the summary of my declaration, so
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`that is easier for me to refer back to my declaration.
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` Q. Who prepared these notes?
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` A. References provided by the petitioner.
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`Declaration written by me, and some editing between.
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`And the notes by me.
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` MR. KEAN: Okay. And Mr. Bartlett, the way we
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`do this last time I just reviewed the notes at the
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`break. Last time I didn't identify them as an exhibit.
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`I would propose do the same thing here, if necessary
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`label them but I suspect it won't won't be necessary?
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` MR. BARTLETT: That's fine.
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`BY MR. KEAN:
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` Q. Mr. Lim, I'd like to turn your attention please
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`to the '097 declaration starting at about paragraph 55.
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` A. 55. Okay, I'm there.
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` Q. And in paragraphs in the range of 52 through
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`62, you're discussing the Zeemote company and various
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`members of the Zeemote team, is that right?
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` A. In 55 to, I believe you said 62, I gave a short
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 9
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`bio background of the inventors of '097 and I believe
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`Page 10
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`'892 as well.
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` Q. What do you know about the Zeemote company?
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` A. I actually did not know them before -- I might
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`have seen, you know, in the past documents or anything
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`like that, but I do not recall that I, you know, know
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`them at all until this proceeding.
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`(Reporter clarification.)
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` MR. KEAN: Z-E-E-M-O-T-E, I believe.
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`BY MR. KEAN:
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` Q. Do you know any of the named inventors on the
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`'097 and '892 patents personally?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Who do you know?
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` A. I know Lorraine, L-O-R-R-A-I-N-E, last name
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`W-H-E-L-E-R.
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` Q. How do you know Ms. Wheeler?
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` A. She had a company back in late '90s did
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`application software for Palm operating system. I
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`believe that was in 1999 or 2000. I believe it was
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`1999. Palm bought the company. And of course I was an
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`executive at Palm, as you know. So I was involved in
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`that conception. That's how I know Lorraine. She was
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`the CEO of the company. And then after Palm bought the
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`company, the company rolled into Palm, and she did work
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 10
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 11
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`at Palm for, again, this is from my memory, long time
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`ago, maybe a couple of years. Actually I left a year --
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`I left Palm a year after IPO. I believe she might have
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`been still there. So that's how I know her as a
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`colleague. She, I believe, reported into product
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`marketing group. I was the head of worldwide product
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`development. So she was my colleague in that sense.
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` Q. When's the last time you've spoken with
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`Ms. Wheeler?
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` A. Spoken? Voice-spoken, I believe, back in 1999
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`or 2000, so that was about 15 years ago. Since then, we
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`have not spoke until, I believe, about a year or so ago,
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`and she sent me e-mail. That's why I said spoke. I
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`didn't talk to her but I did see an e-mail, about,
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`approximately a year, nine months ago.
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` Q. What was the subject matter of the e-mail?
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` A. She basically said that because she knew my
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`background at Palm and other background, as I say, we
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`bought her company, and she said that -- again, this is
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`from my recollection, very short, that she thought that
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`she would like to introduce me to a law firm, which was
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`Bob's company --
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` MR. KEAN: Gilbertson?
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` THE WITNESS: I call him Bob. He's a lawyer.
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` A. -- Bob's company. So basically it was, you
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 11
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`know, introduction e-mail, I would say. Then after
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`Page 12
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`that, we have not had e-mail since.
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`BY MR. KEAN:
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` Q. What did Ms. Wheeler tell you about this case?
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` A. I believe she said that -- this is from my
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`memory, again -- I believe she said that she started
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`another company which I did not know, either started or
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`she was involved with, another company that was sold,
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`and she said that whether I would be, you know, either
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`interested or open to being an expert witness or
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`something, very short, I believe she also said that she
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`wasn't involved in the case, but that is again from my
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`recollection.
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` So it wasn't anything that I was aware of this
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`proceeding. The very first time I knew of this
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`proceeding, or even Sony, the company, was way later
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`after I was involved with Bob's company.
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` Q. Surely you knew of Sony the company before this
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`last year, right?
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` A. No, after I was involved with -- after I saw
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`the documents, I think, or after I know -- after I
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`talked to Bob, the lawyer.
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` Q. Okay. I'm just a little confused by that. Are
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`you just saying that you first became aware of Sony's
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`involvement in the case?
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 12
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 13
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` A. That's right, that's right, involved in the
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`case. I knew Sony for a long long time. I was a
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`partner of Sony back, you know, 20, 15, 20 years ago
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`when I was at Palm, as you know, that Palm was a
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`licensee of -- I mean Sony was an licensee of Palm.
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` Q. Apart from the introduction e-mail, have you
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`and Ms. Wheeler discussed any other aspects of this
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`case?
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` A. No, she did not tell me about the case except
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`to say that she sold the company, and I do not believe
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`she mentioned the company name either, the company
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`involved. She said she sold the company, that's --
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`that's the extent of it.
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`(Reporter clarification.)
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` Q. Do you know if Ms. Wheeler has an ownership
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`interest in Aplix?
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` A. She did not say that. I believe she said she
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`was not involved in it. She did not say anything about
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`financial one way or the other.
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` Q. Do you know if Ms. Wheeler has any financial
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`interest in the outcome of this case?
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` A. She did not mention that.
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` Q. Do you know any of the other inventors of the
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`'097 or '892 Patents?
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` A. No, I do not.
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 13
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` Q. You don't know Elaine Chen, is that right?
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` A. No, I do not.
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` Q. And you do not know Rob Podoloff, is that
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`right? P-O-D-O-L-O-F-F.
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` A. I do not.
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` Q. And you do not know Beth Marcus, is that right?
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` A. Yes, I told you before I do not.
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` Q. Do you know anything about any of these
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`individuals' educational background?
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` A. Besides Lorraine, I certainly knew that when we
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`bought the company back in 1999. Other than that, I did
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`not know. Now, the reason -- the reason it was in
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`there, I thought you were interested in that. You asked
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`me on every proceeding whether I knew the inventor, so I
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`said okay, maybe I should know them.
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` Q. Okay, so your statements in paragraphs 55
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`through 62 are based on your review of these inventors
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`LinkedIn profiles, is that accurate?
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` A. Yes, that's in the reference. That's in the --
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`I think we can include that in the references.
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` Q. You mean you included it as an exhibit?
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` A. As Exhibit, I'm sorry, I used the wrong term.
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` Q. That's okay.
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` A. Yeah, I did review those.
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` Q. Are any of your statements about any of these
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 14
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`inventors and their educational background based on
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`anything other than your review of the LinkedIn
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`profiles?
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` A. The background, I asked actually the background
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`of this inventor. So the background was provided to me,
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`the background. I did validate those and gone through
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`the background, the exhibits, as well as the -- you
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`know, as well as other factors in the summary here.
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` Q. Do you know if the mitigation provided in these
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`public profiles is accurate?
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` A. I reviewed in LinkedIn, so if it's not
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`accurate, then that's part of the exhibit, so that's
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`where I got the information from or that's how I
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`validate the information. I also validated a few points
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`in these bios, again, through the Web site. So if the
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`Web site was wrong the Web site I reviewed was wrong I
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`couldn't speak for that.
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` Q. What Web site are you referring to?
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` A. I think that in the Exhibit, if you got -- I
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`don't have the exhibits with me today, in the exhibit, I
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`believe they're LinkedIn mostly built it might be some
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`other site, I do not have them in front of me, so --
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` Q. Did you speak with Ms. Chen, Mr. Podoloff or
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`Ms. Marcus in connection with preparing your
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`declaration?
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
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`Fax: 314.644.1334
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`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 15
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` A. No.
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` Q. Apart from the initial introduction did you
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`speak with Ms. Wheeler in connection with preparing your
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`declaration?
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` A. No. As I say, the last I spoke with her voice
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`was back, in I believe, 1999 or 2000.
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` Q. Did you communicate via e-mail with any of
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`these inventors other than the one exchange you've
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`already told me about with Ms. Wheeler?
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` Q. What steps did you take to verify that the
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`information provided in their LinkedIn profiles was
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`accurate?
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` A. First I asked for exhibits. The background
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`information. I read through all the bios provided. I
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`think if I needed more validation I did ask for -- say
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`where you guys got this information, I need to take a
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`look into it and I read them.
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` Q. And when you're referring to exhibits and bios,
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`you're referring to the LinkedIn profiles that were
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`submitted as exhibits in this proceeding, is that right?
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` A. That's correct. Actually, I can give you the
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`number.
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` Q. And I believe, if it's helpful Mr. Lim, I
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`believe they're cited in paragraphs 56, 57, 58 and 59.
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 16
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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` A. Oh, that's right. Thanks for bringing that up.
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`Page 17
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` Q. You're welcome.
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` A. And Exhibit 2021 for Ms. Chen, I thought it was
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`Chen, sorry, Ms. Chen, Exhibit 2021, C-H-E-N. And that
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`is a typo in my declaration, says C-H-I-N. I think
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`that's a typo.
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` Exhibit 200 -- 2022, excuse me, is Beth Marcus.
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` Exhibit 2023 is Rob, I'll spell the last name,
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`P-O-D-O-L-O-F-F.
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` Exhibit 2024 and 2025 is for Lorraine Wheeler,
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`W-H-E-E-L-E-R.
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` Q. Do you know if the company's e-mail still
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`exists?
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` A. I think Lorraine told me it was sold, so
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`that -- that's what I heard.
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` Q. Do you know who it was sold to?
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` A. Based on this, I believe, based on the case
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`involved here, I believe, is Aplix, I believe.
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` Q. And you're basing that off of your conversation
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`with Ms. Wheeler, is that right?
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` A. No. I do not recall that. I base on the
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`document that was, you know, all these documents that
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`were provided to me.
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` Q. You're basing that on the fact that Aplix has a
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`controlling interest in these Patents? Is that what
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 17
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`you're saying?
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` A. That's my assumption. Again, it's just a pure
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`assumption more than anything else. I have no interest
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`of who own the Patents, so I'm just here to analyze.
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` Q. You would agree you can sell patents without
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`selling the company, right?
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` A. You could.
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` Q. Do you know whether or not this e-mail just
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`sold the patents are whether they sold their entire
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`company?
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` A. No idea.
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` Q. Do you know when the company Zeemote was
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`founded?
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` A. I believe the reference, in exhibit, I mean,
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`I'm pretty sure it's in LinkedIn but I want to check if
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`I provided it in my report. I cannot recall right now.
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`But certainly it's in the exhibit.
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` Q. Do you know how many employees the company
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`Zeemote supported?
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` A. That was not my interest to find out, so to be
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`honest, I don't know. I know it's not a big company,
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`you know, startup. But I have no idea how many
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`employees.
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` Q. Do you know who had an ownership interest in
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`the company Zeemote?
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
`
`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 18
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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` A. No, I didn't, zero.
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` Q. Do you know who had a majority interest in the
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`Page 19
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`company Zeemote?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Do you know if anyone other than the inventors
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`listed on the '097 and '892 Patents had an ownership
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`stake in Zeemote?
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` A. No. Actually, the only person I know is the
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`person I told you.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote employed anyone other
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`than the inventors listed on the face of the '097 and
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`'892 Patents?
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`(Reporter clarification.)
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote developed any products?
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` A. I did not know then, but I believe in the last
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`few months, I did see one of the products that was -- I
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`saw on the Internet, but that's the extent of it. I did
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`not do any extensive research one way or the other.
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` Q. When you say you "did not know then," what
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`timeframe are you referring to?
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` A. That means before I was involved in this case.
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` Q. So on the date of your declaration, you did not
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`know whether or not Zeemote sold any products? Is that
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`what you're saying?
`
`www.midwestlitigation.com
`
`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 19
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`Page 20
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` A. On the '097, I'm not sure the '245, I knew it
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`before, but I'm speaking for '097 right now, '097 was
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`written in, gee, maybe November, I guess. I probably
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`saw the Internet before then. I believe I did just a
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`picture, a picture through -- the picture on the Google
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`search. I did not go do any detailed analytics of the
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`product at all. It wasn't my interest then or even now.
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` Q. That brings up a housekeeping subject. If you
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`turn to the very last page of your '892 declaration, I
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`believe it's page 54, the date is November 1, 2015; is
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`that right?
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` A. Sorry, I misspoke. This must be written in
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`October, yes, November 1.
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` Q. Is that your signature on the document?
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` A. Yes, it's mine.
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` Q. Turning to '097, the last page 66 --
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`17
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` A. Yes.
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`18
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` Q. -- and this is Exhibit 2009?
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`19
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` A. Yes.
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`20
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` Q. And the date there is October 31, 2015, is that
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`right?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. And that's your signature on this document as
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`well, is that right?
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`25
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` A. That's correct. And again I apologize, it was
`
`www.midwestlitigation.com
`
`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 20
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`
`
`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
`
`written in November, I meant October. It was a few
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`Page 21
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`months ago.
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` Q. Sure. Thank you for the clarification.
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` So you were mentioning that you saw some
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`product online that you believe was a product developed
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`by Zeemote, is that right?
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` A. I believe the tag line or something like that,
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`I did see that. I did somehow make a mental link
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`quickly, but I did not go in and do any, as I say, any
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`deeper research than what I saw.
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` Q. What was the product?
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` A. It's even hard for me to recall right now
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`because I did not put -- I scanned -- kind of made a
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`mental link as I told you. I may describe it wrong, but
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`this is from my recollection here. I think it's some
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`kind of a handheld controller. That's to the extent
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`that I believe I saw it. I think it's the shape of
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`almost elongated shape, you know, lack of a better word,
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`similar to a TV controller that we, you know, we're used
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`to. I mean not the shape, but as far as -- as far as
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`the look of it. Generically speaking. As I say, I did
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`not do much research on it.
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`23
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` Q. Do you know what this controller was for?
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`24
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` A. I try to see whether I even go into that. I
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`25
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`can't tell you right now. I can tell you what the
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
`
`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 21
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`Patent say. As a matter of fact I don't recall -- I
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`want to make sure I don't confuse what I read in the
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`patent and what I saw in the picture. The best I can
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`tell, I do not believe I read the articles about the
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`product besides the picture I saw and could be the
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`tag line that I saw. I did not do the research, as I
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`said. It wasn't part of the thing that I was asked to
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`do. I mean part of my research, when I did for the
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`declaration, I saw those.
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` Q. Do you recall what Web site you were looking
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`at?
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`12
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` A. Usually I used Google search, usually. And I
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`believe I saw that on the picture site, because when I
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`did my own declaration, I did take those pictures from
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`Google's and maybe link to the picture that Google
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`searched. So that would be the most likely place that I
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`saw it is Google search image.
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` Q. What led you to believe that the product that
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`you saw in the image was a product developed by Zeemote?
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`20
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` A. As I said, I probably saw the tag line or
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`21
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`something like that, that led me to, as I said, I made a
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`mental link. I wasn't studying. I made a link that
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`okay, that could be it, and that mental link could be
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`24
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`because of some word that I saw associated with it.
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`25
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`(Reporter clarification.)
`
`www.midwestlitigation.com
`
`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 22
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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` Q. Mr. Lim, I believe you said -- were you saying
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`Page 23
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`"tag line" affiliated with the picture?
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` A. Tag line, again, may be a wrong word.
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`(Reporter clarification.)
`
` THE WITNESS: Tag, T-A-G.
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` A. What I meant is some kind of text, T-E-X-T,
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`that I read, whether it's a tag line or just a title, is
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`it something, I -- I cannot recall right now. I think
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`your question is whether I saw Zeemote's product, and I
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`told you yes, probably I did. I did not do deep
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`BY MR. KEAN:
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote developed any products
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`before October 2005?
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` A. I have no idea.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote built any prototypes
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`before October 2005?
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` A. I have no idea.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote has ever sold any
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`products?
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` A. I cannot recall exactly what I saw on that
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`article, is that for sales article or just a picture --
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`24
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`for sales, a product that is selling. So I could not
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`speak for sure. But the product, however, the picture
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 23
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`that I saw looked quite real. So it's not a drawing
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`from a patent, put it that way. It looked like a real
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`product, with a sketch.
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` Q. And this is a picture that you saw in a Google
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`search sometime in 2015, is that right?
`
` A. Picture or pictures in a Google search, in that
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`sense I mean. On the page, it could be more than one,
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`but yes.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote ever had any revenue?
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` A. No idea.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote currently sells any
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`products?
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` A. No. No idea besides the picture that I saw, if
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`that was selling then, it was selling, but I have no
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`idea.
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` Q. If a company never sold any products and never
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`created any revenue, would that company be a success in
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`your opinion?
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` A. It depends. I think that it depends in the
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`sense that they are company, purely technology company.
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`(Reporter clarification.)
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` A. And research company, you know, companies like
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`those tend to define their success as the patent
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`generation built something that is useful but not
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`selling it.
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 24
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` On the other hand, you know, companies,
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`commercial companies like Palm, like Sony, Apple, would
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`value their product revenue as successful or not. So
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`that's the reason I say it depends.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote was a patent generation
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`company?
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` A. No idea.
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` Q. Do you know if Zeemote did any research and
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`development?
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`10
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` A. I have no idea. But I would assume that with
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`their background, the inventors' background, and the
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`fact that I saw the picture of the product, one should
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`assume there should be some kind of research and
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`development for the product if nothing else.
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` Q. Did you submit the picture of a product as an
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`exhibit with your declaration?
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` A. No, I did not. I do not believe, as I said, it
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`wasn't my interest in this particular declaration of
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`mine, and I did not do any research. If I were to put a
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`picture, I would need to explain, you know, the
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`relationship there. I did not go beyond what I just
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`saw. And I saw a lot of pictures by the way throughout
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`this proceeding, as I told you before. I did the
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`research, I took up the things that are the exhibits I
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`thought are the most relevant to my declaration, as well
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`www.midwestlitigation.com
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`MIDWEST LITIGATION SERVICES
`Phone: 1.800.280.3376
`
`Fax: 314.644.1334
`
`SCEA Ex. 1041 Page 25
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`
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`PENG LIM 1/26/2016
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`Page 26
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`as this case. And I have gone through, you know, more
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`articles and more pictures than what I put in my
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`exhibit, those that I believe were not most relevant.
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` Q. Have you seen any other evidence that would
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`corroborate your conclusion that Zeemote did develop a
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`product at some time?
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` A. I do not believe so. I don't think so at all.
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`As I say, when I look at the Patent and I believe I told
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`you in '245 or '313, before then, I was asked to look at
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`the Patent, look at the specification, look at the
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`claims, look at the references, and then provide the
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`declar
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