Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SERVICENOW, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`vs. IPR2015-00631
` Patent No. 7,392,300
`HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,
` Patent Owner.
`_________________________/
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TAL LAVIAN, Ph.D.
` PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA
` FRIDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2015
`
`BY: ANDREA M. IGNACIO, CSR, RPR, CRR, CCRR, CLR
` CSR LICENSE NO. 9830
` JOB NO. 99057
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`1
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`6
`
`7
`8
`
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SERVICENOW, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`vs. IPR2015-00631
` Patent No. 7,392,300
`HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,
` Patent Owner.
`_________________________/
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF TAL LAVIAN, Ph.D.
` PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA
` FRIDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2015
`
`BY: ANDREA M. IGNACIO, CSR, RPR, CRR, CCRR, CLR
` CSR LICENSE NO. 9830
` JOB NO. 99057
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`1
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`6
`
`7
`8
`
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SERVICENOW, INC.,
` Petitioner,
`vs. IPR2015-00631
` Patent No. 7,392,300
`HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,
` Patent Owner.
`_________________________/
`
` Videotaped deposition of Tal Lavian, Ph.D., taken
` on behalf of the Defendants, at Cooley LLP,
` 3175 Hanover Street, Palo Alto, California,
` Pursuant to Notice, before me, ANDREA M. IGNACIO,
` CSR, RPR, CRR, CCRR, CLR ~ CSR License No. 9830.
`
`1
`2
`
`3 4
`
`5
`6
`
`7
`8
`
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`Page 3
`
` ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` COOLEY
` By: ANDREW MACE, Esq.
` 3175 Hanover Street
` Palo Alto, California 94304
`
` ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` WILMERHALE
` By: JOSEPH HAAG, Esq.
` 950 Page Mill Road
` Palo Alto, California 94304
`
` ALSO PRESENT: Aric Kerhoulas, Videographer
`
` ---oOo---
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`1
`
`2 3 4
`
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
` PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA
` FRIDAY, OCTOBER 30, 2015
` 9:04 A.M.
`
`Page 4
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. This marks
`the beginning of tape 1 of the videotaped deposition
`of Dr. Tal Lavian.
` In the matter of ServiceNow, Incorporated
`versus Hewlett-Packard Company. In the United States
`Patent and Trademark Office before the Patent Trial
`and Appeal Board. Case No. IPR 2015-00631.
` This deposition is being held in the office
`of Cooley, at 3175 Hanover Street in Palo Alto,
`California. The date today is October 30, 2015. The
`time is approximately 9:04 a.m.
` My name is Aric Kerhoulas from TSG Reporting.
`Our court reporter today is Andrea Ignacio, in
`association with TSG.
` Will counsel please introduce yourselves for
`the record.
` MR. HAAG: Joseph Haag from Wilmer Hale,
`representing the patent owner Hewlett-Packard.
` MR. MACE: Andrew Mace with Cooley, for the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4 5 6 7
`
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
`petitioner ServiceNow.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter
`please swear in the witness.
`
`Page 5
`
` TAL LAVIAN, Ph.D.,
` having been sworn as a witness
` by the Certified Shorthand Reporter,
` testified as follows:
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please proceed.
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. HAAG:
` Q Good morning.
` A Good morning.
` Q Can you please state your full name for the
`record.
` A Tal Lavian.
` Q Is it Dr. Lavian?
` A Dr. Tal Lavian.
` Q And can you describe your educational
`background for me, please.
` A Yes.
` I did bachelor in computer science -- in
`mathematic and computer science in Tel Aviv
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`1
`2
`3
`
`4 5
`
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`University; master's in electrical engineering,
`Tel Aviv University, and Ph.D. in computer science,
`focused on network communications, at UC Berkeley.
` Q Am I right that you've been deposed before?
` A Yes.
` Q Roughly, how many times have you been
`deposed?
` A 25 -- 25-ish.
` Q And were those all -- were those depositions
`all when you were an expert witness?
` A Yes.
` Q You've never been deposed as a fact witness?
` A I was deposed once as a fact witness.
` Q Were the depositions you've had all in patent
`cases?
` A Can you please repeat the question.
` Q Sure.
` Were the depositions that you've -- you've
`given been all in patent cases?
` A Almost all of them.
` Q What were the other ones?
` A I had one related to network communication
`infrastructure in hospital, one -- the communication
`part of it, and one on e-mail system and the way that
`e-mail system in iPhone works. I believe that was the
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`one. The two are not related to patent, but
`technology.
` Q So you understand I'm going to be asking you
`a series of questions here today; right?
` A Yes.
` Q You understand you're under oath?
` A Yes.
` Q You're going to try to answer the questions
`as best you can; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And if you don't understand a question,
`you'll let me know; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Can you tell me what your area of expertise
`is.
` A Network communications.
` Q Do you have work experience in that field?
` A Yes.
` Q Where?
` A I have work experience total of about 27,
`28 years. I worked in different companies.
` Q Which companies?
` A They are listed in my résumé. Currently, I
`work -- I will go backwards. Currently, I'm working
`at TelecommNet and VisuMenu. Before, I worked for
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 8
`Nortel Networks. It was part of Bay Networks before
`then.
` That's the last 20 years that I'm in the
`United States.
` Before then, I worked in Israel for start-up
`called Aptel -- Aptel Communications. Before, I
`worked for another company called Scitex that now is
`part of HP. I worked before for Shalev. And before
`then, I have other projects, but as students, not --
`before I finished my -- my education.
` Q And what type of products did Scitex make?
` A Scitex makes products that are related to
`image processing, printing documents. And basically,
`they have very large advanced -- one of the most
`advanced companies in Israel, that developed at that
`time the latest processing -- image processing
`products.
` Q Image processing for what purpose?
` A For printing.
` Q For printing. Okay. Thank you.
` Did you do anything to prepare for your
`deposition here today?
` A Yes.
` Q What?
` A Read the materials, prepared the material.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q What do you mean by "read the materials"?
` A There are several patent related. They are
`my declaration, all kinds of documents related to the
`case, and went over all of them.
` Q Did you meet with your attorneys?
` A Yes.
` Q Who?
` A I met with Andrew Mace.
` Q Anyone else?
` A Yes.
` At some point, I had a short meeting with
`Mark --
` THE WITNESS: Mark; yes?
` MR. HAAG: Q. Is that Mark Weinstein?
` A I be- -- I believe. I -- that's the first
`time I met with him. I think he's the boss of -- of
`Andrew.
` Q Okay.
` A I think it's Mark Weinstein. I don't know.
` Q Okay. Someone named Mark, though, who works
`at Cooley?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. Fair enough.
` And how long was your meeting with Mr. Mace?
` A I met with him several times.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q Did you meet with him yesterday?
` A Yes.
` Q How long was that meeting?
` A About three or four hours.
` Q Did you meet with him the day before?
` A No.
` Q When else did you meet with him?
` A I met with him several other times in the
`last -- several other times.
` Q When?
` A For example, I believe earlier this week, and
`I believe the week before.
` Q How long did you meet with him earlier this
`week?
` A Less than a day.
` Q Half a day?
` A Half a day.
` Q Two hours?
` A Half a day.
` Q Okay. So, you met with him for three or four
`hours yesterday; is that right?
` A Yes.
` Q And for half a day sometime earlier this week
`before yesterday?
` A Yes.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 11
` Q And you also met with him last week; is that
`right?
` A Last week.
` Q For how long?
` A About half a day.
` Q How much time did you spend preparing for
`your deposition here today?
` A I didn't count. I spent some time in the
`last week reading, preparing.
` Q Can you give me an estimate of how much time
`you've spent preparing for your deposition here today.
` A Several days. Several days, basically. The
`last two weeks, several hours per day.
` Q Now, earlier you prepared a declaration for
`this matter; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And you'll understand me if I refer to the
`'300 patent?
` A Yes.
` Q Your opinions relate to the '300 patent;
`right?
` A Yes.
` Q That's HP's patent in this matter; right?
` A Yes.
` Q So, you prepared a declaration; right?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A Yes.
` Q Can you tell me roughly how much time you
`spent preparing that declaration?
` A It was almost a year ago. I don't remember
`the exact time.
` Q It appears you signed it on January 28th,
`2015.
` Does that sound about right?
` A Yes, that's -- yes.
` Q Do you have an estimate how much time you
`spent working on your declaration?
` A I don't have it in front of me right now.
` Q Was it -- go ahead.
` A I don't know exactly.
` Q Do you have an estimate?
` A It was a few weeks. I don't remember how
`long.
` Q How much time over a few weeks?
` A I -- I need to look at my records. I cannot
`know. I worked on several cases. I don't know how
`much time I worked on each one of them.
` Q Is it closer to ten hours or 100 hours?
` A It's -- I was paid very well, so it's closer
`to -- I don't know what -- I think that I was paid a
`large amount. So I don't know the exact time, but
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`definitely way more than ten hours.
` Q You get paid by the hour; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. So maybe you spent closer to 100 hours
`than ten hours.
` Does that sound right?
` A Somewhere in between. I don't know exactly
`how much in each case.
` Q Did you find any of the prior art that you
`described in your declaration?
` A No.
` Q Had you heard of any of the prior art in your
`declaration before your work on this matter?
` A No.
` Q Am I right that you're an IEEE senior member?
` A Yes.
` Q Can you tell me what a senior member is at
`the IEEE.
` A IEEE is an organization of engineering. I
`believe it's the largest organization of engineering.
`And they have several level of ranks, and within one
`of the ranks that they have.
` Q And what -- did you have to do something to
`become a senior member of the IEEE?
` A They have some -- I don't know what exactly
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 14
`the requirements to get -- you have to go -- to send
`the application, get several people to sign on it,
`evaluate your level. And if you pass what they asked,
`the requirements, you get ranked.
` Q Is it an award of sorts to be an IEEE senior
`member?
` A Is it what?
` Q Is that an award, or is it just anyone who
`pays the fee?
` A No, no, no, you cannot just pay the fee, no.
`You have to meet some criteria of a publication, work
`experience, work in front of committee.
` Q And am I right that you've worked then in
`IEEE committees?
` A I was in a part of IEEE committees, yes.
` Q And what did those committees relate to?
` And let -- let me -- that wasn't a great
`question. Let me try that again.
` What technical areas did the IEEE committees
`work on for the ones that you worked on?
` A I don't remember the exact ones in the last
`20-some years. But in general, my area of expertise
`is network communications, and I focus on things
`related to network communications.
` Q Am I right that you're a member in ACM?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A Yes.
` Q What is that?
` A ACM is the largest organization of computer
`scientists.
` Q And what does ACM work on, if anything?
` A ACM works on different aspects of computer
`science. More specifically, I'm a member of groups
`that are related to network communications.
` Q Are you all right?
` A Water.
` Q Okay. You got a Ph.D. from the University of
`California at Berkeley; is that right?
` A Yes.
` Q What year did you get that Ph.D.?
` A 2006.
` Q What year did you get your B.S. degree?
` A I believe 1990 -- 1987.
` Q What did you get your Ph.D. in?
` A Computer science, with focus on network
`communications.
` Q When you say "network communications," can
`you tell me what you mean.
` A Network communications includes several
`areas: Telecommunications, Internet protocols,
`wireless, many different aspects of communicating
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`between computers.
` Q And what areas do you specialize in within
`network communications?
` A I worked -- for many years I worked on
`different projects, different protocol. And I was
`exposed to different -- in different projects, I was
`exposed to different topics. I can specialize in only
`what I do, and I'm trying to be very narrow.
` Q Did you say "I'm trying to be very narrow"?
` A I -- when I'm working on areas, I'm trying to
`focus only on areas that I prefer or I like in very
`narrow of an expertise.
` Q Okay. So you've worked on Internet protocols
`in the past; is that right?
` A Yes.
` Q Am I right that you've worked on cellular
`systems?
` A Yes.
` Q Have you worked on cellular standards?
` A Not directly. I never worked on the standard
`directly.
` Q What have you worked on in the cellular
`systems area?
` A I work in different aspects that's related to
`systems, starting for working in Aptel -- Aptel
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 17
`Telecommunications. I worked on a technology that --
`two-way paging that was related of Part 15 -- FCC
`Part 15. That was in about 1993/1994.
` I worked at Bay Networks on different
`technologies that -- starting with mobile IP,
`wireless, 802.11. Worked later on integration of
`protocols and start as part of a 2G, 3G.
` I'm working now on my own start-up that's
`also related to mobile devices.
` Q In what way?
` A In my start-up, I developed a appli- -- a
`search engine for the phone system and the
`applications that can ride [sic] the interactive voice
`response of the phone system on mobile devices
`automatically instead of by human.
` Q Have you ever heard of the field of IT
`service management?
` A Yes.
` Q What is that?
` A IT is a complicated area that related to many
`fields of providing IT services to -- to people,
`organization, computers.
` Q And by "IT," do you understand me to mean
`information technology?
` A Yes.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 18
` Q Have you worked in the IT service management
`space?
` A In the last 30-some years, I'm exposed
`main -- basically, I'm working in IT, yes.
` Q Where or when?
` A All of my companies, all the stuff that --
`all the work that I'm working is in the area of IT.
` Q Have you worked on IT service management?
` So just -- I think -- I think when you were
`answering my question, you referred to working in the
`IT space.
` I'm actually asking about IT service
`management, or ITSM, if you've heard that acronym.
` So my question for you is: Have you worked
`in the IT service management space?
` A I worked on -- in the IT system general,
`including all the components of -- many components of
`IT; more specifically, inside the IT in network
`communications.
` Q Have you worked in the service management
`space for IT?
` A Quite a bit of the work that I developed
`related to service management. Even my start-up
`today, you could say part of it is network
`communication, the protocols. Part of this is IT, and
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 19
`part of it is to manage the services and the functions
`that are doing all direct service management.
` (Document marked Exhibit 1003
` for identification.)
` MR. HAAG: We've got a big table to reach
`across here today.
` MR. MACE: Thanks.
` MR. HAAG: Q. Dr. Lavian, am I saying your
`name right?
` A Yes.
` Q It's Lavian?
` A Yeah.
` Q Okay. Correct me if I get it wrong. I
`apologize in advance.
` Dr. Lavian, I've -- I've handed you a copy of
`what the court reporter has marked as Lavian
`Exhibit 1003. This is also ServiceNow's Exhibit 1003.
` And this is the Matheny patent application;
`is that right?
` A Yes.
` Q You're familiar with this patent application;
`correct?
` A Yes.
` Q This is a published patent application;
`right?
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A Yes.
` Q You'll understand me if I refer to this as
`Matheny?
` A Yes.
` Q You've reviewed the Matheny reference before;
`right?
` A Yes.
` Q Have you spent quite a bit of time reviewing
`it over the last year or so?
` A Yes.
` Q If you -- why don't we just turn to Figure 1
`right now of Exhibit 1003.
` A (Witness complies.)
` Q And Figure 1 shows a network computer system;
`right?
` A Part of network computer systems, yes.
` Q And one thing it shows is a "Network
`Management System 102" in the upper part of the
`drawing; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And that network management system includes a
`discovery agent; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Actually, it looks like it might be meant to
`depict multiple discovery agents.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Am I getting that right?
` A Yes.
` Q Can you tell me what the discovery agents do
`in Matheny.
` A Discovery agents discover the elements of the
`networks and -- and get the information.
` Q What do you mean by "elements of the
`networks"?
` A Network include many different computers,
`servers, printers, and other devices, and get all the
`information.
` Q So, if you look --
` A Discover them, basically.
` Q So, if you look in Figure 1, some of the
`devices that might be discovered are shown at the
`bottom as "Network Device 110"; right?
` A One example, yes.
` Q Have you ever worked on discovery systems for
`networks?
` A I worked on network management systems and
`part of network management. One element of network
`management is discovery.
` Q And have you worked in that discovery area?
` A Yes.
` Q Where?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A All of my -- large portion of my career I
`worked in network management, and part of it is
`discovery. Part of it is network management. Part of
`network management is discovery.
` Q So, am I right that the discovery agents in
`Matheny are used to collect information about the
`network?
` A Yes.
` Q And then Matheny describes a process of
`coalescing this information; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Why don't you turn to Figure 5 of Matheny.
` A (Witness complies.)
` Q Before we get into Figure 5, can you -- you
`brought a number of documents with you here today;
`correct, Dr. Lavian?
` A Yes, yes.
` Q Can you tell me what those documents are.
` A These documents are the patents in my
`declaration with the exact marking as I marked them in
`my declaration.
` Q Okay. So right now, you're not looking at
`the Matheny reference that I marked as Exhibit 1003;
`right?
` A I'm looking on the same document that I
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`brought with myself.
` Q You're looking at a document that you brought
`with you, that has every place within Matheny that you
`cited, highlighted; correct?
` A Highlighted or -- if it's written, it's
`highlighted. The text is highlighted. It just
`referenced as red rectangle.
` Q What does a red rectangle reference?
` A If I called -- if I referenced, for example,
`Figure 5, so Figure 5 is marked as red rectangle.
` Q Do you have any other notes on the Matheny --
` A No.
` Q -- reference that you are reviewing right
`now?
` A No.
` Q So, are you on Figure 5 of Matheny?
` A Yes.
` Q The first thing it says is:
` "Create discovery document."
` Right?
` A Yes.
` Q And the discovery document is something that
`you've cited in your declaration; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Then step 504 says:
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` "Copy data for discovered machine. Form
`generated discovery files into discovery document."
` Do you see that?
` A Yes.
` Q And the next step says:
` "Compare new data for discovered machine to
`data in discovery document."
` Right?
` A Yes.
` Q And then step 508 says:
` "Eliminate duplicate data."
` Right?
` A Yes.
` Q So the information is first copied into the
`discovery document; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And then, if there are duplicate -- if there
`is duplicate data about, for instance, the same
`device, it will be deleted; right?
` A That's one example.
` Q And Matheny refers to this as a coalescing
`operation; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And am I right that Matheny is primarily
`directed to a discovery process?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A In high level, yes.
` Q Matheny doesn't have a lot of details about
`how the discovery document is actually put into use
`after it's created; correct?
` A In high level, you are correct.
` Q If you could turn to paragraph 24 of Matheny.
` A (Witness complies.)
` Q Are you there, sir?
` A Yes, please.
` Q And paragraph 24 is a paragraph that you
`cited in your declaration; right?
` A Yes.
` Q You know that because it's highlighted on
`your personal copy of Matheny; right?
` A More than it. More than this. I know it,
`yes.
` Q But paragraph 24 is highlighted on your
`personal copy of Matheny; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q You've read paragraph 24?
` A Yes.
` Q Probably several times; right?
` A Yes.
` Q You're pretty familiar with it?
` A Yes.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q And it refers to Figure 5; right?
` A Yes.
` Q We just discussed Figure 5 a few moments ago;
`right?
` A Yes.
` Q What paragraph 24 starts off saying is that,
`after the first aggregator agent completes the
`network --
` A Which line are you?
` Q I'm on line 25.
` And why don't you read for us out loud the
`sentence that begins on line 25.
` A Line 25?
` Q Oh, I'm sorry. You're right. These are not
`lines; are they?
` So I'm in paragraph 24 of Matheny; okay?
` A Okay.
` Q And I'd like you to read out loud the second
`full sentence of paragraph 24; okay?
` A "The network manager" -- "The network manager
`104 looks so the information in all discovery files
`for the discovered devices generated and appended by
`the versus discovery and aggregator agents and" --
`copy -- "copies the data into the discovery document
`block 504."
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 27
` Q Okay. And you actually just read the third
`sentence of paragraph 24; right?
` MR. MACE: I think it's the fourth one.
` MR. HAAG: Oh, is that the fourth sentence?
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` MR. HAAG: That's right.
` Q You just read the fourth sentence of
`paragraph --
` A Oh, okay.
` Q -- 24; right?
` A Oh, yes.
` Q Okay. That's fine.
` Can you find the second sentence?
` A Yes.
` Q It's the one that begins with "after"; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Can you read that one out loud for me,
`please.
` A "After the first" -- "After the first
`aggregator agent completes, the network manager 104
`may create a discovery document and begin to coalesce
`the discovered and aggregated information block 502."
` Q Okay. So now, that sentence refers to a
`discovery document; right?
` A Yes.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q And so this paragraph in Figure 5 are
`showing, at least in part, the creation of a discovery
`document; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Now, I'm going to go back to the fourth
`sentence that you just read out loud a moment ago;
`okay? Okay?
` A Okay.
` Q Now, that sentence refers to:
` "The discovery manager 104 loops through the
`information in all of the discovery files for the
`discovered devices generated and appended by the
`various discovery and aggregator agents and copies the
`data into the discovery document block 504."
` A Yes.
` Q Did I read that correctly?
` A Yes.
` Q So again, it refers to the discovery
`document; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And it refers to the discovery files for the
`discovered devices; right?
` A Including them, yes.
` Q So, you agree with me that the coalescing
`process includes in the discovery document,
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 29
`information from the discovery files for discovered
`devices; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Now, paragraph 24 does not refer to a
`relationship file; does it?
` A No, you are wrong.
` Q Well, let's look, sir. Why don't you look at
`paragraph 22.
` A (Witness complies.)
` Q Are you there, sir?
` A Yes.
` Q Can you read out loud for us the first
`sentence in paragraph 22.
` A Yes.
` "The discovery agent may also create a
`relationship file which indicates how the discovered
`nodes relate to each other."
` Q So there's something called the relationship
`file in Matheny; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And those are created by one or more
`discovery agents; is that correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Now, the sentence you read out loud from
`paragraph 22 said the discovery agent may also create
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 30
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`a relationship file; right?
` A Yes.
` Q And so, by the word "also," they're referring
`to the fact that earlier, the discovery process was
`used to create information about discovered devices;
`right?
` A Yes.
` Q So the discovery process finds information
`about discovered devices; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And it also finds information about
`relationships between devices; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Now, if we go back to paragraph 24, the
`fourth sentence, it refers to discovery files for the
`discovered devices; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Paragraph 24 does not use the word
`"relationship"; correct?
` A The -- it said the network manager looks for
`the information in all discovery files.
` Q Okay. Let's focus on my question; okay, sir?
` A Yes.
` Q Can you do that for me?
` A Sure.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 31
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q Paragraph 24 does not use the word
`"relationship"; correct?
` A If you look specifically on the word, it's
`not used the word, but it talks about all the
`discovery files.
` Q So the answer --
` A All the information discovery files, yes.
` Q So the answer to my question is correct.
`Paragraph 24 does not use the word "relationship";
`right?
` A If the question is related to the word
`itself, the word is not -- does not exist in
`paragraph 24.
` Q Paragraph 24 also does not explicitly refer
`to relationship files; correct?
` A Paragraph 24 specifically related to
`discovery files. And discovery files including the
`relationship file.
` Q So, it's your opinion that the discovery
`files shown in paragraph 24 includes relationship
`files? Is that your opinion?
` A The discovery documents are related to all
`the files generated by the discovery agent.
` Q Well, let's -- let's step back, sir.
` A Let me finish.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 32
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` Q But, sir --
` A You asked me a question. Let me finish.
` Q I'm going to -- I'm going to -- I'm going to
`cut you off because I want to make sure we get our
`terminology right.
` The discovery document is the result of the
`coalescing process; right?
` A Discovery document is part of the -- result
`of the coalescing, yes.
` Q So I think you meant to refer to discovery
`files; right?
` A No.
` Q Okay. But I just want to make sure we're
`getting something straight. Matheny refers to
`discovery files; right?
` A You cut me off. You didn't let me finish.
` Q Sir, I'm just asking you a different question
`right now.
` A Okay.
` Q Matheny refers to discovery files; right?
` A Yes.
` Q Matheny also refers to a discovery document;
`right?
` A Yes.
` Q Those are two different things; right?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 33
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A Yes.
` Q Now, we agree that paragraph 24 does not
`refer to a relationship file; right?
` A I disagree.
` Q Let me -- let me rephrase that question.
` We agree that paragraph 24 does not
`explicitly refer to a relationship file; correct?
` A The word "relationship" does not exist in
`paragraph 24.
` Q You believe that paragraph 24's mention of
`discovery files means that that includes relationship
`files? Am I getting that right?
` A The discovery files are all the documents in
`the discovery dictionary -- directory created in
`paragraph 17. And basically, it's a process of
`paragraphs 17, 18, and 19 that discusses the creation
`of different types -- different types of discovery
`files. And there are different types of files -- in
`general, XML files -- as part of the discovery process
`that are in the discovery folder mentioned in
`paragraph 17, 18, 19, and 20.
` Q So, you used the term "discovery folder."
` Do you mean discovery database?
` A No. I mean discovery folder.
` Q Where does it use that phrase?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`
`
`Page 34
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` A It's called in the agent directory.
` Q Where are you looking, sir?
` A Directory mean folder.
` Q Where are you looking, sir?
` A Paragraph 17, fourth line.
` Q So I just want to make sure I'm understanding
`you. I think you referred to a discovery folder; is
`that right?
` A Yes.
` Q And you're saying that th
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
