UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`______________________________
`MAKO Surgical Corp.,
`Petitioner,
`
` v.
`Blue Belt Technologies, Inc.,
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________
`
`Case IPR2015-00630
`Patent 6,205,411
`
`DEPOSITION of ROBERT D. HOWE, Ph.D.
`Cambridge, Massachusetts
`October 21, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`Dana Welch, CSR, RPR, CRR, CBC, CCP
`Job #98848
`
`Blue Belt Technologies, Inc.
`Exhibit 2006
`Mako Surgical Corp. v. Blue
`Belt Technologies, Inc.
`IPR2015-00630
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
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`Blue Belt - Exhibit 2006 - Page 1
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`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
`______________________________
`MAKO Surgical Corp.,
`Petitioner,
`
` v.
`Blue Belt Technologies, Inc.,
`Patent Owner.
`______________________________
`
`Case IPR2015-00630
`Patent 6,205,411
`
`DEPOSITION of ROBERT D. HOWE, Ph.D.
`Cambridge, Massachusetts
`October 21, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`Dana Welch, CSR, RPR, CRR, CBC, CCP
`Job #98848
`
`Blue Belt Technologies, Inc.
`Exhibit 2006
`Mako Surgical Corp. v. Blue
`Belt Technologies, Inc.
`IPR2015-00630
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
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`Blue Belt - Exhibit 2006 - Page 1
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` October 21, 2015
` 9:32 a.m.
`
` Deposition of ROBERT D. HOWE, Ph.D., held
`at the offices of Regus, 125 Cambridge Park Drive,
`Suite 301, Cambridge, Massachusetts, before Dana
`Welch, Certified Shorthand Reporter, Registered
`Professional Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter
`and Notary Public of the Commonwealth of
`Massachusetts.
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`For MAKO Surgical Corp.:
`MORRISON & FOERSTER
`BY: MATTHEW KREEGER, ESQ.
`425 Market Street
`San Francisco, CA 94105
`
`Blue Belt Technologies, Inc.:
`GIBSON, DUNN & CRUTCHER
`BY: BRIAN BUROKER, ESQ.
` OMAR AMIN, ESQ.
`1050 Connecticut Avenue, N.W.
`Washington D.C. 20036
`
`--- appearances continue ---
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`APPEARANCES (continued):
`
`For Blue Belt Technologies, Inc.:
`Schwegman Lundberg & Woessner
`BY: GREG STARK, ESQ.
`1600 TCF Tower
`121 South 8th Street
`Minneapolis, MN 55402
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` HOWE
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` ROBERT D. HOWE, Ph.D., sworn
` MR. BUROKER: For the record, my name is
`Brian Buroker from Gibson Dunn on behalf of Blue
`Belt; with me is Omar Amin from my firm, and Greg
`Stark from the Schwegman firm.
` MR. KREEGER: I'm Matthew Kreeger from
`Morrison & Foerster.
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. BUROKER:
` Q. Sir, would you please state your full name
`for the record.
` A. I'm Robert Donald Howe.
` Q. And your current residence address,
`please.
` A. 57 Grozier Road, Cambridge, Massachusetts.
` Q. And do you maintain a primary business
`address?
` A. I do.
` Q. And what is that address?
` A. Harvard University School of Engineering
`and Applied Sciences.
` Q. Have you given a deposition before?
` A. I have.
`
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` HOWE
` Q. How many times?
` A. I'm not certain off the top of my head.
`It's on the order of four or five times.
` Q. Okay. So I will ask you about those in a
`minute. You know the drill. I will ask you
`questions, and if you would please try to wait
`until I finish my question before you start
`answering, I will do the same. I'll wait until you
`finish answering before I ask the next question.
`Do you understand that process?
` A. Certainly.
` Q. Your counsel has the opportunity to make
`objections, so obviously you might want to pause a
`moment after my question to permit him to offer his
`objections. But if he does not instruct you not to
`answer, you understand that you're to answer the
`question to the best of your ability; is that
`correct?
` A. I do.
` Q. Okay. If you don't understand a question,
`please ask me to clarify. That's fair, okay?
` A. Certainly.
` Q. And you understand that you're under oath
`and you're giving testimony in proceedings at the
`
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` HOWE
`Patent and Trademark Office; is that correct?
` A. That's right.
` Q. Is there any reason why you can't give
`truthful testimony today, medication, illness or
`anything of that nature?
` A. I have a little jet lag going on, but that
`shouldn't slow me down too much.
` Q. Counsel informed us of that. So if you
`need a break because you need to stretch your legs
`or whatever, please do so. Obviously, we can take
`as many breaks as we need to.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. In the four to five times you've been
`deposed, were those circumstances in which you were
`offering expert testimony?
` A. That's right.
` Q. And were those in patent infringement or
`patent-related matters?
` A. Yes, they were.
` Q. And for whom were you offering testimony,
`to the best of your memory, in those matters?
` A. Let see, the first one was Immersion
`Corporation versus Sony. It was originally versus
`Microsoft and Sony, but Microsoft settled. Let's
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` HOWE
`see if I can reconstruct the others off the top of
`my head.
` Another case was against Nintendo, and I'm
`afraid I don't recall the name of the plaintiff,
`even though that's who I worked for.
` Q. Okay.
` A. That was in the Eastern District of Texas.
` I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the memory quiz
`here on who else I've done depos for.
` Q. In any of those cases in which you were
`offered -- or you were deposed, I should say, did
`you testify in any trials in those proceedings?
` A. In both of those I testified at trial as
`well.
` Q. Okay. So in the Immersion v. Sony case,
`did you say you were testifying as an expert on
`behalf of Immersion?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And then in the Nintendo matter, you were
`testifying on whatever the plaintiff was in that
`matter?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So were you offering opinions about
`infringement in both of those circumstances?
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` HOWE
` A. I did validity for the Immersion v. Sony.
` Q. So for Immersion, you did validity, and
`for the other matter, you were --
` A. I did --
` (Interruption by the reporter.)
` Q. So in the Nintendo matter, you mentioned
`you offered an opinion related to infringement and
`validity; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And for the Immersion matter, your
`testimony was limited to the validity of the
`Immersion patents; is that fair?
` A. Well, the attorneys asked me about both,
`but I was retained to investigate validity.
` Q. So you also offered deposition or had
`given a deposition in two or three other matters,
`you just can't recall the names?
` A. I think, yeah. I'm sorry, off the top of
`my head, I don't recall.
` Q. For today's deposition and tomorrow, to
`the extent there is one, what did you do to
`prepare?
` A. Well, I studied the materials in the case,
`the patents in question, of course, the petition,
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` HOWE
`my declaration, the decision to implement inter
`partes review, and the prior art documents,
`particularly those that were cited as part of the
`decision, the grounds that were cited by the patent
`office.
` Q. And did you meet with counsel as well to
`prepare for your deposition?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. And which counsel was that?
` A. (Indicating).
` Q. Mr. Kreeger?
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. For how long did you meet?
` A. Two half-days.
` Q. Aside from the materials that you
`identified, were there any other materials that you
`reviewed to prepare that refreshed your
`recollection?
` A. Okay. I'm not trying to give you an
`exhaustive list. I also looked briefly at the file
`histories for the '411 and the '582. I also looked
`at some of the technical information about the
`technology, the sensors used, that sort of thing.
` Q. And where did you look for the technical
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` HOWE
`information about the sensors, looking on the
`Internet at various things?
` A. Some was the Internet, some is manuals
`that I have for, you know, devices that are
`pertinent.
` Q. Okay. And I see you've brought some
`materials with you. Just so that we have on the
`record what you brought, what are the materials
`that you brought and are laid out on the table in
`front of you here?
` A. So for the '411, I have DeGioia I and
`DeGioia II, I have the order, the decision from the
`patent office, the petition, declaration, and the
`patent.
` Q. Okay. Are these clean copies, except for
`some of the notes on the very front cover that just
`identify what they are?
` A. Yes, with one exception. The tables,
`which are in the petition -- they're not in my
`declaration, I refer to them in the petition --
`I've added a few notes to additional places in the
`prior art where there's additional supporting
`material beyond what's cited in the tables
`themselves.
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` HOWE
` Q. Okay. So these are citations that were
`not provided at the time of the submission of the
`petition but you've subsequently identified?
` A. Well, I don't recall in detail, but I
`think these were identified at the time of the
`petition. For this particular petition, the
`decision was to go with one reference, sometimes
`two, but, obviously, there's more than that. So I
`went back and wrote them in just to aid my memory
`during the deposition.
` Q. Okay. Let me ask, you've been retained by
`the petitioner in these two inter partes reviews,
`correct?
` A. That's right.
` Q. And when were you initially contacted
`about being retained?
` A. I don't remember off the top of my head.
` Q. Obviously, before the declaration was
`signed. Do you recall how many weeks or months in
`advance of that you were retained?
` A. It was a substantial period. I'm afraid I
`don't, in detail. But it was a substantial period.
`This wasn't a rush job. We had plenty of time to
`prepare.
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` HOWE
` Q. And who initially contacted you?
` A. I don't remember.
` Q. Was it an attorney?
` A. I honestly don't remember.
` Q. You're being compensated at an hourly rate
`of $395 per hour for this work; is that correct?
` A. That's right.
` Q. Is that you personally or is that through
`a consulting company?
` A. That's me personally.
` Q. How many hours have you spent working
`on --
` MR. BUROKER: Strike that.
` Q. How many hours did you spend working on
`the declaration and related materials for the
`submission of the petitions?
` A. That was months ago, and I'm afraid I
`don't recall the number.
` Q. You don't have an estimate?
` A. It was dozens of hours. Beyond that, I'm
`afraid I can't say.
` Q. Do you recall what the breakdown between
`the work related to the '411 versus the '582
`petition was?
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` HOWE
` A. Sorry, not at all.
` Q. Were you working on both sort of not
`simultaneously but around the same time period?
` A. Yeah, that's right. I think we finished
`one and then finished the other.
` Q. So currently you are a professor at
`Harvard University; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So you are compensated as a professor at
`Harvard, correct?
` A. That's right.
` Q. Do you receive compensation from any other
`sources other than Harvard University?
` A. Well, I have served and continue to serve
`as an expert witness in other cases, and I also do
`some technical consulting on, you know, for
`companies on development of new products, IP
`matters, that kind of thing.
` Q. Are you able to identify the names of the
`companies for whom you provide technical consulting
`services?
` A. Some. Some have confidentiality
`agreements in place.
` Q. Okay. Which are the ones that are
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` HOWE
`non-confidential engagements?
` A. Okay. So let me ask about time frame.
`Are you asking for who I'm engaged with right now
`or have been the last year?
` Q. The last year and currently is a good
`range.
` A. Okay. So the last year, there's at least
`one where I am under nondisclosure that includes
`the fact that I'm consulting. Another one is
`RightHand Robotics.
` Q. Okay. I was going to have -- are you paid
`a salary by RightHand Robotics?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you paid for hourly consulting work
`for them?
` A. They've given me an equity stake. It's a
`startup, so they've given me an equity stake.
` Q. So aside from your equity stake, you are
`not paid any additional compensation by them?
` A. No.
` Q. Has RightHand Robotics received any
`funding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What are the sources of the funding?
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` HOWE
` A. The federal government and venture
`capitalists and friends and family.
` Q. RightHand Robotics, to your knowledge, has
`not received funding from any major medical device
`companies to date?
` A. They're not in the medical field at all.
` Q. And RightHand Robotics doesn't have any
`business dealings with MAKO; is that correct?
` A. No.
` Q. And RightHand Robotics does not have any
`business dealings with Stryker?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you had any business dealings with
`Rony Abovitz, one of the co-founders of MAKO?
` A. Not to best of my memory.
` Q. Have you had any business dealing with
`William Tapia, one of the co-founders of MAKO?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you had any business dealing with
`Wayne Kerness, one of the co-founders of MAKO?
` A. Not to the best of my memory.
` Q. Have you had any business dealings with
`Michael Peshkin, one of the co-founders of MAKO?
` A. Peshkin?
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` HOWE
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yes. Well, he's a faculty member at
`Northwestern University in the mechanical
`engineering department. We work on related
`research areas, so I speak with him from time to
`time about research issues, but nothing commercial.
` Q. So you know Dr. Peshkin professionally,
`but don't have any deals in which you are currently
`involved in business with him?
` A. Not at all.
` Q. And then, well, have you done any business
`with Julio Santos Munne, one of the co-founders of
`MAKO?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. You started the Harvard Robotics --
` MR. BUROKER: Strike that.
` Q. You started a laboratory at Harvard
`related to biorobotics; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And what's the name of it?
` A. We call it the biorobotics lab.
` But you have to be careful there. Many
`similar labs. There's the robotics lab, the
`biodesign lab, the microrobotics lab.
`
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` HOWE
` Q. Right. That's why I asked you the name,
`because I want to make sure I get it correct.
` So the biorobotics lab that you were a
`founder of, when was that founded?
` A. 1990, although I don't think we called it
`the biorobotics lab until about '95 when the
`Internet came along and we had to put something on
`a website.
` Q. What did you call it in 1990?
` A. The Howe Lab.
` Q. And what are the sources of funding for
`the biorobotics lab?
` A. Well, across the years, we've had funding
`from the federal government, a principal source,
`from foundations, and from companies.
` Q. What are the companies that have provided
`funding to the BioRobotics Lab?
` A. Okay. I don't think I have any corporate
`funding at present. Should I go through the
`history?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Okay. Honda Research. There was a
`startup we worked with for a few years, medical
`device. They went under. So I'm having a hard
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` HOWE
`time remembering their name. They did tactile
`imaging for breast cancer detection, and I'm sure
`the name will occur to me in a few minutes.
` Let's see, RightHand Robotics. Well, to
`be clear, with RightHand, we've shared government
`grants. So they funded both entities through the
`STTR program. A similar arrangement for Pressure
`Profile Systems, STTR funding, shared government
`funding.
` Let me think. That's the best I can do
`off the top of my head.
` Q. Has your BioRobotics Lab ever received any
`funding from MAKO?
` A. No.
` Q. Has your BioRobotics Lab ever received any
`funding from Stryker?
` A. No.
` Q. Has it had any business dealings with
`Stryker of any kind?
` A. We bought a Stryker endoscope, but I think
`that's about it.
` Q. No research projects in which you were
`working with either MAKO or Stryker to develop any
`research?
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` HOWE
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. You're familiar with -- Carnegie Mellon
`has a robotics laboratory, correct?
` A. Many robotics laboratories.
` Q. And they have a robotics laboratory that
`relates to biorobotics; is that correct?
` A. Several, yes.
` Q. Okay.
` A. They're kind of the big dog in robot
`research, so they've got a lot of people working in
`all areas of robotics.
` Q. So does your lab compete for Ph.D.
`students with CMU?
` A. I suppose, yes.
` Q. Has it hired away any of your students?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you hired any students into your lab
`from Carnegie Mellon?
` A. No. That's pretty rare.
` Q. Do any of your former students work for
`Stryker?
` A. Good question. No, I don't believe so.
`Not that I know.
` Q. Do any of your former students work for
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` HOWE
`MAKO?
` A. No. I need to be careful. Not that I
`know of. You know, I don't keep track of all the
`undergraduates who once spent a semester in my lab,
`that sort of thing. But I'm pretty sure none of my
`Ph.D. students work for either Stryker or MAKO.
` Q. All right.
` MR. BUROKER: Matt, that's the questions I
`was going to suggest would apply to both IPRs.
` MR. KREEGER: We won't object to you
`filing that part of the transcript in both IPRs.
`If you want to move on to '411 stuff, that's fine.
` MR. BUROKER: All right. We'll go to the
`'411 IPR.
` Q. You've got your copy. If you want to use
`yours, that's fine.
` A. Whatever you prefer.
` Q. I was going to show you the Declaration of
`Robert D. Howe, which is Exhibit 1004 in IPR number
`2015-630.
` A. I'm happy to use your documents for all of
`this with the exception of the petition where I
`have a few notes.
` Q. And I trust that that's the same copy as
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` HOWE
`what we've got, so if you want to use your copy,
`that's fine.
` A. Very good.
` Q. Neither one of them has the IPR number on
`the front because it was not assigned at the time.
`So the cover page should say "unassigned." That's
`correct. Okay.
` So if you could turn to -- well, first of
`all, are you aware of any mistakes in this
`declaration, which is 1004, in IPR 2015-630 after
`it was submitted?
` A. I might have noticed a typographic error
`or two. I don't recall any substantive errors.
` Q. Okay. This declaration offers opinions
`related to certain prior art references related to
`the '411 patent. Who chose which references this
`declaration would address?
` MR. KREEGER: And in responding to that
`question, you shouldn't reveal any communications
`you had with counsel working with you. But if you
`can otherwise answer, go ahead.
` A. Let me see if this is helpful. I
`identified a number of pieces of prior art, some of
`which have appeared in the declaration and
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` HOWE
`petition. Based on advice from counsel, I can't go
`into detail about -- further detail about the
`process of selecting prior art.
` Q. Okay. I'll ask you this way: So this
`declaration offered an opinion that certain claims
`of the '411 patent are either anticipated or
`obvious in view of a 1996 DeGioia article. Did you
`choose that article?
` MR. KREEGER: Same instruction.
` You can answer.
` A. I can't --let see. So your question is --
`what do you mean by "choose" I guess is the
`question.
` Q. You discussed that article in this
`declaration.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. And you didn't discuss other prior art
`references. So the question is: Who chose to
`include and argue invalidity based on this DeGioia
`reference?
` A. Okay. So based on advice from my counsel,
`I can't answer that.
` MR. BUROKER: Just to be clear, Matt,
`you're instructing him not to answer; is that
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` HOWE
`right?
` MR. KREEGER: That's right. As to
`communications with counsel. If you have some
`other way to answer, please do.
` Q. Were you aware of the DeGioia, the 1996
`DeGioia article before you began working on
`preparing the declaration that went into this
`petition?
` A. Yes, I was aware of this work.
` Q. So there's also a second DeGioia reference
`that's from 1995 that's referred to in here as
`DeGioia II. Were you aware of that article before
`you began your work in preparing the declaration
`for this petition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. There is an article that's on page 16 as
`part of the discussion, at least to Chao, that
`became Exhibit 1007 to the petition. Were you
`aware of the Chao article before you began work on
`the declaration for this petition?
` A. I may have seen it years ago. But I
`looked at it as part of the preparation for the
`declaration.
` Q. The O'Toole reference which is mentioned
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` HOWE
`on page 17 of the declaration, Exhibit 1008, were
`you aware of the O'Toole reference before you began
`work in preparing your declaration for this
`petition?
` A. Let me confirm that reference first.
`Page 17, you say?
` Q. Yes. Top of page 17.
` A. I'm not sure.
` Let me give you a little more complete
`answer. So I was working in the field. I followed
`developments at meetings. I attended some of the
`of them where these references were presented.
`However, the field moves on. And so I may well
`have come across that. In fact, I suspect I did --
`I'm not certain -- at the time it came out. But in
`the course of preparing the deposition, I, you
`know, had occasion to study it in detail.
` Q. And then the next one that's in this
`declaration on the same page is the Taylor, and
`it's entitled "An Image Directed Robotic System for
`Precise Orthopedic Surgery," and it's a June 1994
`article and was identified as Exhibit 1009.
` Were you aware of that article before you
`began your work in preparing the declaration?
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` HOWE
` A. Yes. That's a famous paper.
` Q. Were you aware of the '411 patent before
`you began work in preparing the declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Were you aware that Blue Belt had been
`spun out of Carnegie Mellon when you began work on
`this petition?
` A. I had heard of it by word of mouth, but I
`was unacquainted with any details.
` Q. Were you aware that there was a patent
`infringement lawsuit between Blue Belt and MAKO?
` A. Not until I was contacted by the case.
` By the way, I can now -- I recall now that
`I was contacted by Walter Wu, one of the attorneys.
` Q. Do you recall now, having remembered that
`you were first contacted by Mr. Wu, the time frame
`in which he contacted you?
` A. That's less likely to come to mind.
` Q. I just thought since part of your memory
`was refreshed, I'd see if the rest of it was.
` A. Sorry.
` Q. So in the materials that you brought with
`you, you did not bring the Chao, O'Toole, or Taylor
`references at least for the '411; is that correct?
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` HOWE
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And that's because the PTAB did not
`institute on any grounds related to those
`references for this patent, right?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So you've got with you the two DeGioia
`references and then the '411 patent?
` A. And the various petition declaration
`decisions.
` Q. Okay. Turning to paragraph 13 --
` A. Of the declaration?
` Q. -- of the declaration, yeah. Sorry.
` A. Very good.
` Q. It says, "It is my understanding that
`claims of a patent are analyzed from the
`perspective of a person of ordinary skill in the
`art and that the claims of the '411 patent are
`interpreted as a person of ordinary skill in the
`art would have understood them at the time the '093
`application, which issues as the '411 patent, was
`filed."
` That understanding came from counsel?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay.
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` HOWE
` A. In this case and previous cases.
` Q. And what's your understanding of what the
`person of ordinary skill in the art of that
`construct is?
` A. So to quote from paragraph 16 of my
`declaration, "A person of ordinary skill in the art
`relevant to the '411 patent would have had at least
`a bachelor's degree in mechanical, electrical, or
`biomedical engineering or computer science and at
`least five years of experience in developing or
`researching image-guided medical devices and
`procedures for surgical robotics."
` Q. And did you come up with that definition
`of a person of skill in the art for the '411
`patent?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What did you mean by "image-guided medical
`devices"?
` A. Okay. So this is the idea of taking a
`medical image from a variety of different
`modalities, extracting useful information, usually
`geometric, usually spatial information from that,
`although it could be physiological or functional,
`and then using that to guide a procedure, typically
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` HOWE
`to guide an instrument or a needle, some way of
`interacting with the tissue that is revealed in
`that medical image.
` Q. And then this says -- well, try to
`understand the construct of this sentence. So
`"developing or researching," that applies to both
`of what follows? Is it developing or researching,
`one or the other? How do you --
` A. Yes.
` Q. How do you read this?
` A. Yeah. You could work in industry
`developing devices, you could work in a research
`lab, for instance, as a graduate student creating
`new technologies.
` Q. And is there two things there that you
`could be developing or researching, one being
`image-guided medical devices and procedures and the
`second being surgical robotics?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So what did you mean by "surgical
`robotics"?
` A. Well, devices that are used in surgery
`that typically include sensing and actuation.
` Q. So in the opinion that you offered
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` HOWE
`regarding validity, you offered that opinion from
`the perspective of the person that you define in
`paragraph 16; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Not your own personal expert opinion, but
`from the perspective of somebody who is less
`skilled than you are potentially?
` A. Oh, yes.
` Q. So in 1997, did you have -- you certainly
`had a degree in -- a Ph.D. in mechanical
`engineering; is that correct?
` A. That's right.
` Q. And did you have five years of experience
`developing or researching image-guided medical
`devices by 1997?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. What was the first project you
`worked on that was researching or developing an
`image-guided medical device?
` A. Let's see, there were a couple from around
`that time frame. One of them involved tactile
`array sensing, the idea of remote palpation, where
`a device that measures the distribution of pressure
`across the contact surface produces a tactile
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` HOWE
`image, and that can be used in a number of ways.
`The information can be relayed to the surgeon
`outside the body. It can be processed to reveal
`the location of hidden structures, for instance,
`arteries by detecting pulsatile pressure variations
`or lumps by detecting pressure concentrations.
` Another project involved guiding
`cardiac -- a portion of coronary artery bypass
`surgery for robotic applications by using
`preoperative images to locate hidden arteries which
`were then dissected free for use in the bypass
`procedure.
` Q. What was the time that that first project
`started?
` A. I don't recall. Early '90s.
` Q. If you could identify from your CV any
`publication that resulted from that project.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Your CV I think is attached to the
`declaration.
` A. I'm afraid I tried to save a tree and I
`didn't include all of the --
` Q. We can give you our copy.
` A. Okay. This will take a minute. There are
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` HOWE
`a few to look at. See, referencing number -- so my
`publications are broken up into categories. In the
`category of Refereed Conference Papers, Number 15,
`Peine, Son, and Howe, "a palpation device for
`artery localization of laparoscopic surgery," I
`believe that was -- yeah, that's one.
` Let me keep looking.
` 27 is another one: Peine, Wellman, and
`Howe, "Temporal bandwidth requirements for tactile
`shape displays."
` Then let me look in some of the other
`categories. Under Jo
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