Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`-------------------------------)
` )
`APPLE INC., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Inter Partes Review
` ) No. IPR2015-00599
`FARSTONE TECH, INC., )
` ) Patent No. 7,120,835
` Patent Owner. )
`-------------------------------)
`
` DEPOSITION OF MATTHEW D. GREEN, Ph.D.
` New York, New York
` December 11, 2015
`
`Reported by: BONNIE PRUSZYNSKI, RMR, RPR, CLR
`JOB NO: 100241
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`1 2
`
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 1
`
`

`
`Page 2
`
`Page 3
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`MORRISON & FOERSTER
`Attorneys for Petitioner
` 707 Wilshire Boulevard
` Los Angeles, CA 90017
`BY: VINCENT BELUSKO, ESQ.
`
`COOPER & DUNHAM
`Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 30 Rockefeller Plaza
` New York, NY 10112
`BY: TONIA SAYOUR, ESQ.
` BENJAMIN HAN, ESQ.
`
`12
`
`34
`
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
` December 11, 2015
` 9:30 A.M.
`
` DEPOSITION OF MATTHEW D. GREEN,
`Ph.D., held at the offices of Morrison & Foerster,
`250 West 55th Street, New York, New York, before
`Bonnie Pruszynski, a Registered Professional
`Reporter, Registered Merit Reporter, Certified
`LiveNote Reporter, and Notary Public of the State
`of New York.
`
`Page 4
`
` M. Green
` (Witness sworn.)
` MATTHEW D. GREEN, Ph.D.
` called as a witness, having been first
` duly sworn, was examined and testified
` as follows:
`EXAMINATION
`BY MR. BELUSKO:
` Q Could you please state your full
` name for the record?
` A Matthew Daniel Green.
` Q Dr. Green, do you understand that
` you are here today for a deposition in
` connection with an inter partes review
` proceeding involving Apple and Farstone?
` A I do.
` (Green Exhibit 1, Notice of
` Deposition of Matthew D. Green, Ph.D.
` marked for identification, as of this
` date.)
` Q I would like to place before you
` what I have marked as Green Exhibit 1, which
` is a copy of that notice, and ask you whether
` you have seen this before.
` A I'm not sure if I received a copy
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 5
`
` M. Green
`of the notice or I was just told that the
`notice existed.
` Q Okay. But you have shown up --
` A I'm here.
` Q -- so I assume you know it's going
`forward. Okay.
` How many times have you been
`deposed?
` A I can't give you an exact number
`off the top of my head. I would guess at
`least a dozen times.
` Q With respect to those times, have
`they all been involved with your acting as a
`testifying expert in a technical matter?
` A Yes.
` Q And when did you first begin acting
`as a technical expert in any technical
`matter?
` A I believe in -- let's say
`approximately seven or eight years ago, I
`began consulting with other technical
`experts, and later became a consulting
`expert, a testifying expert in other cases.
` Q In connection with inter partes
`
`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`123456789
`
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 2
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 6
`
` M. Green
`reviews, how many times have you actually
`been deposed?
` A Well, let's see. I have been
`involved in, I believe, including this one,
`three inter partes reviews that included
`depositions. However, one of those involved
`multiple depositions. I don't remember the
`exact number.
` Q And how many times have you
`testified at trial as an actual expert
`witness?
` A One time at a trial that actually
`began.
` Q When was that?
` A That would have been in 2011.
` Q What was the technology involved
`there?
` A It involved satellite television
`technology.
` Q Any particular aspect?
` A It involved the antipiracy systems
`of a satellite television provider.
` Q In connection with the three IPR
`matters that you mentioned, excluding this
`
`Page 8
`
` M. Green
`retention was sometime after that date?
` A That's my recollection, yes.
` Q Who retained you?
` A I was contacted by, I believe it
`was Thomson Reuters, and Thomson Reuters, if
`I am correct about that, contacted me and
`told me about this case. I spoke with
`attorneys, and I don't recall who the
`attorneys were in that initial call. And
`subsequently I was retained by Cooper &
`Dunham through Thomson Reuters.
` Q Were the attorneys with whom you
`spoke with initially attorneys at the Cooper
`firm?
` A I believe so, yes.
` Q Are you aware that there is a
`litigation going on in the district court
`involving this patent?
` A I understand that, yes.
` Q Have you ever been in contact with
`any of the attorneys representing Farstone in
`the district court action?
` A I met one attorney briefly. I
`don't recall his name.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 7
`
` M. Green
` one, I guess it would be two matters then,
` what was the technology involved in those
` other two matters?
` A One involved backup and -- sorry,
` virtual machine backup and recovery of
` computer systems. The other involved a
` system for, I believe, a location-based
` mapping and processing of data elements.
` MR. BELUSKO: I am going to have
` the coffee brought in.
` (Interruption in proceedings.)
`BY MR. BELUSKO:
` Q When were you first retained in
` this matter by Farstone's counsel?
` A I don't remember the exact date.
` It was earlier this year. I want to say
` summer, but I am not exactly sure.
` Q At the time you were retained, are
` you aware whether the IPR had been instituted
` by the PTO?
` A My recollection is that it had.
` Q I will just represent the date it
` was instituted was July 30th, 2015. Would
` that refresh your recollection that your
`
`Page 9
`
` M. Green
` Q Was it Ken Stein?
` A That sounds correct to me, yes.
` Q Have you ever met with Mr. Cantine?
` A No, I don't think so.
` Q In connection with your work here,
`have you reviewed any materials that have
`been filed in the district court proceeding?
` A No.
` Q Have you ever spoken with
`Dr. Kaliski?
` A No.
` Q Have you ever reviewed any expert
`reports of Dr. Kaliski?
` A No.
` Q Now, you have reviewed the claim
`construction of the district court that was
`originally provided in this case; correct?
` A I believe I was shown the claim
`construction from that case, yes.
` Q At what point were you shown that
`document?
` A It was at some point during the
`preparation of my declaration, in the early
`stages.
`
`3 (Pages 6 to 9)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 3
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 10
`
` M. Green
` Q In connection with your work here
`and your declaration, did you attempt to do
`any claim construction?
` A No. I used my interpretation as
`one of ordinary skill in the art of what the
`claims meant, but not formal claim
`construction.
` Q What is your understanding of the
`standard for claim construction in an inter
`partes review?
` A The standard that I understand in
`this case is broadest reasonable
`interpretation in light of the specification.
` Q Now, you mentioned that one of the
`other IPR matters involved backup/recovery
`for a virtual machine. With respect to your
`other engagements as an expert, have you ever
`worked with backup/recovery systems in any
`way?
` A With respect to expert engagements,
`no.
` Q Now, have you worked adverse to
`Apple in any of your prior representations?
` A Yes.
`
`Page 12
`
` M. Green
`representations, have you always worked on
`behalf of the patentee?
` A I'm sorry. In terms of IPRs or
`other cases?
` Q All of them.
` A No.
` Q How about IPRs?
` A IPR cases, the ones that I have
`been involved with, yes, I believe so.
` Q And --
` A No, I apologize. No. In fact, I
`missed one. You asked me earlier about
`depositions, but not about all IPR cases.
`So, are you speaking about all cases that I
`have worked on or only those I have been
`deposed in?
` Q Well, let's start with those you
`have been deposed.
` A Okay. In the ones that I have been
`deposed in, I have worked for the patentee.
` Q Is there one you haven't been
`deposed in that was an IPR case that you --
` A Yes.
` Q -- represented an accused
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 11
`
` M. Green
` Q Which ones?
` A I was hired as an expert in an IPR
`by a company known as Evolutionary
`Intelligence, and I believe there were
`several opposing companies. One was Apple.
` I believe also I was involved in
`a -- it was an attempted class action
`lawsuit. I was hired as an expert by the
`plaintiff, who was seeking class
`certification in a case involving Apple's
`iMessage product.
` Q In the Evolutionary Intelligence
`IPR matter, who were you retained by?
` A I'm afraid -- do you mean which
`party or --
` Q Which firm?
` A Oh, the law firm name. I'm sorry,
`I don't know right now. It's in my CV,
`though.
` Q Okay. How about in the iMessage
`class certification issue?
` A It is, I believe, Roy Katriel, his
`firm, LLP.
` Q Now, in connection with your
`
`Page 13
`
` M. Green
`infringer?
` A Yes. I'm sorry, my memory is --
`I'm a little nervous right now. I worked on
`a case earlier this summer. It was an IPR
`case. Oh, I'm sorry, yes. It involved lock
`systems, and the party I worked for was
`Spectrum Brands, and in that case it was, I
`was representing the opposing side from the
`patentee.
` Q Now, in connection with the
`Evolutionary Intelligence matter, do you know
`what the result of that IPR was?
` A I did not read the decision. I was
`told that the result was for the patentee
`positive, at least on some claims.
` Q And with respect to the other IPR
`matter in which you provided deposition
`testimony, do you know what the result was?
` A I believe in the Symantec vs. VM
`case, the claims were rejected or -- it was
`not a positive result for the patentee.
` Q So, the claims were found
`unpatentable?
` A That's correct. Yes.
`
`4 (Pages 10 to 13)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 4
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 14
`
` M. Green
` Q Okay. And with respect to this
`attempted class action matter, do you know if
`the class was certified?
` A The class was not certified. The
`case is continuing, though, I believe.
` Q You also indicated that you
`testified at a trial in a matter. Did that
`matter go to judgment?
` A It did.
` Q Okay. And was the judgment for or
`against the patentee?
` A It was not a patent case.
` Q Okay.
` A That was a contract case.
` Q Did it go for or against the party
`you represented?
` A It went against, but in a much
`smaller amount than had been requested by the
`plaintiff.
` Q At the time you were retained in
`this matter, what did you understand your
`role was to be?
` A My role was to interpret the patent
`in light of -- as one of ordinary skill in
`
`Page 16
`
` M. Green
` maiden name?
` MS. SAYOUR: Sayour.
` A Sayour, sorry.
` Q Anybody else?
` A These were the attorneys I worked
`with on that.
` Q Did you consult with anybody else
`in preparation of that declaration other than
`the attorneys that you have identified?
` A So, again, I mentioned that I met
`one of the attorneys in the litigation, but
`primarily I worked with the attorneys at
`Cooper & Dunham that I mentioned.
` Q I will represent that declaration
`was apparently filed on October 22nd of this
`year. So, over what period preceding that do
`you believe that you were working on this?
` A Actively working, again, I don't
`remember the exact dates. I would say up to
`eight weeks, but maybe less.
` Q And what is your hourly rate?
` A I charge $400 an hour.
` Q Is it the same rate for the
`deposition, too?
`
`Page 15
`
` M. Green
`the art, to examine the prior art that had
`been provided by opposing counsel in this IPR
`and that had been adopted by the board as --
`as part of this matter, and to determine
`whether or not that prior art met the
`obviousness standard that had been instituted
`by the board.
` Sorry, I'm using legal terms all
`wrong, and I apologize for that. I'm a
`computer scientist.
` Q But you are doing just fine.
` Approximately how long did it take
`you to prepare your declaration here?
` A It was -- it took several weeks.
` Q And approximately how much time did
`you spend on it?
` A I don't remember exactly. I
`believe it was in the neighborhood of
`30 hours.
` Q With whom did you specifically
`work?
` A I worked with the attorneys at
`Cooper & Dunham. Benjamin Han and Tonia --
` THE WITNESS: Do you go by your
`
`Page 17
`
` M. Green
` A I believe so.
` Q Did you physically meet with
`counsel in preparing this declaration?
` A I did.
` Q How many times?
` A Twice, I believe.
` Q Was that here in New York?
` A Yes.
` Q Were you provided an initial draft
`of the declaration?
` A Of my declaration?
` Q Yes.
` A No.
` Q Did you prepare the initial draft
`yourself?
` A I did.
` Q And what materials did you have
`from which you prepared that initial
`declaration?
` A I was given the board decision. I
`was given the petition -- again, I'm going to
`use the wrong document names, but the
`petition prepared by Apple. I believe I was
`given the preliminary response. I may be
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`5 (Pages 14 to 17)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 5
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 18
`
` M. Green
`using this wrong. I was given, of course,
`the exhibits to those, which include the
`patent itself, other patents that had been
`asserted as prior art and so on. I think you
`know what that list includes.
` Q Okay. And that included also the
`district court's initial claim construction;
`is that correct?
` A I believe it did.
` Q Now, in terms of this preliminary
`response that you are referring to, is it
`correct that you weren't involved in any way
`in the preparation of the preliminary
`response of Farstone in this IPR matter?
` A No. The initial, no, I was not.
` Q You weren't even retained at that
`time; correct?
` A I do not believe so.
` Q Well, if the preliminary response
`was prior to the institution of the IPR,
`would it necessarily be the case that you
`were not retained at the time the preliminary
`response was provided?
` A That would make sense.
`
`Page 20
`
` M. Green
`consulting.
` Q Is that expert witness consulting
`like the current matter?
` A Yes.
` Q I'm just looking at your
`background. You received a BA in computer
`science in 1998; is that correct?
` A That's correct.
` Q Okay. Did you go straight to
`graduate school at John Hopkins after that,
`or did you do something in between?
` A No. I went to AT&T Laboratories.
` Q Okay. How long were you there?
` A About four years.
` Q Now, in connection with your time
`at Oberlin, I see that you also have a
`bachelor's in music. Is that correct?
` A I do.
` Q What was that related to
`specifically? A particular instrument or
`something else?
` A Composition of electronic music.
` Q And you went to John Hopkins and
`got a master's in computer science in 2005;
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 19
`
` M. Green
` (Green Exhibit 2, Declaration of
` Matthew D. Green, Ph.D. marked for
` identification, as of this date.)
` Q I'm going to place before you what
`I am going to mark as Exhibit 2, which is a
`copy of the declaration of Matthew D. Green,
`Ph.D., in support of Farstone Tech, Inc.'s
`response pursuant to 37 CFR Section 42.120.
` And let me ask you if you have seen
`a copy of this document before.
` A I have.
` Q And this is your declaration that's
`submitted in this matter; correct, Dr. Green?
` A That's correct.
` Q And at the back of this, this has
`the CV that you have mentioned in your
`testimony; correct?
` A It does.
` Q Okay. Let me just ask you a few
`questions about that, if I may.
` What is Cryptography Engineering?
` A Cryptography Engineering is a
`single-member LLC company that I use for
`consulting, including expert witness
`
`Page 21
`
` M. Green
`is that correct?
` A Right.
` Q Was that a particular field that
`you concentrated in?
` A I entered as a Ph.D. student and
`along the way received a master's, and I was
`working at that point primarily in computer
`security industry-related systems.
` Q What was your thesis on?
` A My Ph.D. thesis or my master's
`thesis?
` Q Let's start with master's.
` A Okay. So, my master's, the project
`was on censorship resistant storage. It was
`on how to essentially back up information
`from a system to a network of computers so
`that even if somebody was trying to eliminate
`that information from the network by shutting
`down computers, the information would remain
`available.
` Q And then the Ph.D.?
` A My Ph.D. thesis was on private
`databases, building databases that stored
`information where if somebody running the
`
`6 (Pages 18 to 21)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 6
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 22
`
` M. Green
`database is trying to figure out what you are
`asking for, they can't do that.
` Q When you were at AT&T Labs, did you
`work on security stuff there, too?
` A Tangentially, I worked on security,
`but primarily I worked on distribution of
`different kinds of content. Music, we were
`trying to distribute music over the internet,
`which seems pretty simple now but back then
`was not. We were working on other projects
`involving just moving video from place to
`place over the internet.
` Q So, after you graduated in 2008,
`what did you do?
` A So, my academic career is a little
`mixed up, because along the way, I founded a
`company with my advisor, my Ph.D. advisor.
`We were looking at the security of corporate
`information systems, and I worked for a
`number of companies as a consultant in that
`time period while completing my dissertation
`and after completing my dissertation.
` Q What company was that?
` A The company was called Independent
`
`Page 24
`
` M. Green
`your emphasis since September 2011 to the
`present?
` A Well, I have done a variety of
`consulting work in different areas, but my
`research focus has been on that, yes.
` Q Where is your consulting work then?
` A Oh, it's listed throughout --
`throughout this. So, the ISE consulting work
`is listed under Independent Security
`Evaluators. That is pre-2011.
` Q Okay. You are looking at page two
`of eight of Exhibit A to Exhibit 2?
` A Yes, that's correct.
` And I also -- I worked for the Barr
`Group, which is an embedded systems company,
`and I worked with them on some of their
`systems, some of their embedded systems
`projects, including a medical device system
`that they are working on. A company called
`BrainScope was their client.
` I worked for Akamai, which is a
`content distribution network that distributes
`consent over the web. That is under
`"Cryptography Engineering." That is on page
`
`Page 23
`
` M. Green
`Security Evaluators.
` Q And how long did that continue
`after you graduated in 2008?
` A I believe I sold my stake in the
`company in two -- September of 2011.
` Q And what did you do at that point?
` A I decided to go full time as a
`research professor at John Hopkins and later
`as a tenure track professor.
` Q Is there an area that you
`concentrate your research on?
` A So, today I concentrate my research
`on applied cryptography and computer
`security.
` Q Can you just tell me what's applied
`cryptography?
` A Encryption and security.
` Q Are you working primarily in the
`government arena then?
` A No. I work on commercial systems.
`I work on essentially academic prototypes of
`systems that may one day be government or
`commercial systems.
` Q Okay. And has that been kind of
`
`Page 25
`
` M. Green
`one.
` Q Okay.
` A There are a number of projects that
`are listed through here, clients.
` Q Did any of these projects that you
`have listed here reference backup/recovery
`systems?
` A So, a handful throughout these.
`The Akamai project, of course, involves web
`content distribution, so it's not backup, but
`it's distribution of content, so it's
`related, in the distributed systems arena.
` I also worked on a case involving
`BrainScope, which involved backing up medical
`information for medical devices. I believe
`it was not the entire project, it was part of
`it.
` While I was at ISE, I worked for a
`company called River Bed, which was doing
`some backup technology, and they were trying
`to do secure backup technology.
` Q I note on Exhibit 2, paragraph 12,
`you opine on a person of ordinary skill in
`the art with respect to the '835 patent here.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 7
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 26
`
` M. Green
` A That's right.
` Q How did you come up with that
`definition?
` A So, the '835 patent describes
`backup storage technology at a level that I
`think is -- would be understandable by
`somebody with an undergraduate degree and
`some experience in the software development
`industry. It does not reference technical
`matters that would only be understood, for
`example, by somebody with a Ph.D.
` Q When you talk about industry
`experience in software development, is that
`software development of any type?
` A Yes.
` Q So, it doesn't have to be related
`in any way to backup/recovery?
` A It doesn't have to be specific to
`that field.
` Q And why is that?
` A Because the concepts that are
`described in the '835 patent, although they
`relate to the application of backup and
`recovery technology, are computer science
`
`Page 28
`
` M. Green
`believe they would be understood by one of
`ordinary skill in the art?
` A I don't set forth constructions.
` Q Okay. Is that just a policy when
`you do these?
` A No. That is just this report.
` Q Okay. Now, did you ever testify in
`any of the smartphone cases?
` A I did not.
` Q Did you provide depositions in some
`of those matters?
` A I did.
` Q Is that a matter that you consulted
`in as well that was adverse to Apple?
` A I consulted -- you are absolutely
`right, I consulted, but I was not an expert.
`I assisted an expert in a matter that was
`adverse to Apple, yes.
` Q What about the Moore vs. Apple
`matter you list as having given a deposition?
`Is that the class certification matter you
`were talking about?
` A Let me see. Moore vs. Apple.
` Q Page four.
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 27
`
` M. Green
`concepts that would be readily understood by
`somebody with a computer science training and
`with experience in software design and
`construction.
` Q So, if someone had been working on
`developing a spreadsheet for two years, that
`would be adequate experience?
` A I think they would understand the
`patent subject matter in that case still.
` Q Is it fair to say you consider
`yourself at least one of ordinary skill in
`the art under your definition?
` A I do.
` Q Now, in your declaration, you point
`out that there were a couple of constructions
`that the board made in connection with
`institution of the IPR here. Paragraph 16.
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. And for purposes of your
`analysis, did you apply those constructions?
` A I did.
` Q And is there anywhere in your
`declaration where you set forth any
`constructions of any particular terms as you
`
`Page 29
`
` M. Green
` A Oh, yes. Yes, that is the class
`cert case. Yep.
` Q Do you have something against
`Apple?
` A I am a huge Apple fan. I think
`they are a great company.
` Q Looking at your expert witness
`engagements, where are those other IPR
`matters that you have testified about listed
`here?
` A Let's see. They are all mixed in,
`so give me a moment.
` Q I'm looking under the testimony at
`deposition category.
` A Oh, okay. Let's see.
` Okay. So, you wanted -- the VM vs.
`Symantec was one of the IPR matters.
` Q Okay.
` A Evolutionary Intelligence.
` Q Okay. And then the third is just
`this matter then?
` A Yes. That's correct.
` Q Now, is it correct that you
`highlight or you bold, I should say, those
`
`8 (Pages 26 to 29)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 8
`
`

`
`Page 30
`
` M. Green
`parties that you represented in this list?
` A Yes.
` Q Okay. In connection with this
`deposition today, what did you do to prepare?
` A I met with the attorneys from
`Cooper & Dunham.
` Q Okay. For how long?
` A Oh, probably four or five hours
`yesterday.
` I read through my declaration. I
`read through some of the other documents in
`this case, the ones I already mentioned.
`That's pretty much it.
` Q Okay. And when you said the
`attorneys from Cooper & Dunham, you motioned
`to your right. I take it that --
` A I am referring to Tonia Sayour and
`Ben Han.
` Q Okay.
` A For some reason I am no longer able
`to pronounce Tonia Sayour's name.
` MS. SAYOUR: Tonia.
` Q Now, in connection with the
`opinions set forth in Exhibit 2, your
`
`Page 32
`
` M. Green
` A No.
` Q Is there anything you wish to
`change in the declaration?
` A No.
` Q And with respect to the bases for
`your opinions, are they all set forth in the
`declaration?
` A Yes.
` Q Now, in connection with your
`experience, have you had one to two years'
`experience in actually working on
`backup/recovery type systems?
` A Yes.
` Q And when -- in what engagement or
`work did you gain that experience?
` A At AT&T Laboratories we built
`systems that performed backups of large audio
`and video caches and were able to recover
`that rapidly.
` Q Anywhere else other than your work
`at AT&T?
` A Well, again, I worked with clients.
`I believe I mentioned several clients that I
`worked with in a consultant capacity where I
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 31
`
` M. Green
`declaration, are those your opinions?
` A Yes.
` Q The fact that they may be
`coincident with the preliminary response of
`Farstone is -- it has nothing to do with the
`fact they were in the preliminary response of
`Farstone as arguments?
` A I was asked to give my opinion on
`these, and I did.
` Q So, is it fair to say you reviewed
`the preliminary response of Farstone and you
`agreed with everything in it?
` A I agreed with what I saw in the
`patent.
` Q Well, is there anything you didn't
`agree with?
` A I mean, there are certainly plenty
`of things one could imagine, hypothetically,
`I would not agree with, but in this case, the
`statements that I made in this report are
`statements that I agree with.
` Q Are there any statements in the
`declaration that, as you sit here today, that
`you believe are not accurate?
`
`Page 33
`
` M. Green
`assisted them in their work on backup
`technology.
` And as a researcher, I also worked
`on prototype implementations, as I mentioned,
`for censorship resistant systems that again
`involved backing up files and recovering them
`from a network.
` Q Now, have you ever reviewed any
`materials in connection with your engagement
`here regarding Apple's Time Machine product?
` A No.
` Q Are you familiar with Apple's Time
`Machine?
` A I know what it is.
` Q Do you use the Time Machine product
`yourself?
` A I have used it.
` Q Do you currently use it?
` A My computer constantly complains
`that I haven't backed up in some huge number
`of days, so I think based on that, no.
` Q Mine does that, too.
` (Green Exhibit 3, United States
` Patent 7,120,835 marked for
`
`9 (Pages 30 to 33)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2015-00599
`
`Apple Inc. Exhibit 1014 Page 9
`
`

`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`1
`2
`3
`4
`5
`6
`7
`8
`9
`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`Page 34
`
` M. Green
` identification, as of this date.)
` Q I place before you what I have
`marked as Green Exhibit 3, which is a copy of
`the United States Patent 7,120,835, and ask
`if you are familiar with this patent.
` A Yes.
` Q Now, when did you first become
`aware of this patent?
` A When I was contacted and spoke with
`Cooper & Dunham about this IPR.
` Q Is it correct that you had never
`heard of this patent before your being
`contacted by Cooper & Dunham?
` A That's correct.
` Q Have you spoken to anyone at
`Farstone about this patent?
` A No.
` Q Okay. Have you ever had any
`contact with Thomas Lin?
` A No.
` Q Do you know who he is?
` A No.
` Q With respect to the two inventors
`listed on the '835 patent, Simon Qin, Q-I-N,
`
`Page 36
`
` M. Green
`patent, in your own words, what do you
`understand the invention of claim nine, found
`in column nine, to be?
` A Just let me read the claim.
` Claim nine describes a -- of
`course, a recovery method that allows a user
`to determine what the outcome of the recovery
`operation will be before they initiate the
`recovery operation, so prior to initiating
`recovery. It