UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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`SERVICENOW, INC.,
` Case
` Petitioner, IPR2015-00523
` Patent 6,321,229
` vs.
`HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,
` Patent Owner.
`-----------------------------
`
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF DAVID KLAUSNER
` Palo Alto, California
` Wednesday, October 21, 2015
`
`REPORTED BY:
`CYNTHIA MANNING, CSR No. 7645, CLR, CCRR
`JOB NO. 99056
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Exhibit 2004
`ServiceNow v. HP
`IPR2015-00523
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`SERVICENOW, INC.,
` Case
` Petitioner, IPR2015-00523
` Patent 6,321,229
` vs.
`HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY,
` Patent Owner.
`-----------------------------
`
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF DAVID KLAUSNER
` Palo Alto, California
` Wednesday, October 21, 2015
`
`REPORTED BY:
`CYNTHIA MANNING, CSR No. 7645, CLR, CCRR
`JOB NO. 99056
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`Exhibit 2004
`ServiceNow v. HP
`IPR2015-00523
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`Page 2
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` October 21, 2015
` 9:30 a.m.
`
` Deposition of DAVID KLAUSNER, taken on
`behalf of Patent Owner, at Cooley LLP, 3175
`Hanover Street, Palo Alto, California,
`before Cynthia Manning, Certified Shorthand Reporter
`No. 7645, Certified LiveNote Reporter, California
`Certified Realtime Reporter.
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`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` COOLEY
` 3175 Hanover Street
` Palo Alto, CA 94304
` BY: ANDREW MACE, ESQ.
`
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` WILMERHALE
` 950 Page Mill Road
` Palo Alto, CA 94304
` BY: JOSEPH HAAG, ESQ.
`
` Also present:
` Aric Kerhoulas, Videographer
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` PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA;
` WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2015; 9:00 A.M.
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`Page 4
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
` This marks the beginning of Tape 1 of the
`videotaped deposition of David Klausner in the
`matter of ServiceNow, Incorporated, versus
`Hewlett-Packard Company, in the United States Patent
`and Trademark Office. Case Number IPR2015-00523.
` This deposition is being held at 3175
`Hanover Street, in Palo Alto, California. The date
`today is October 21st, 2015. The time is 9:01 a.m.
` My name is Aric Kerhoulas, from TSG
`Reporting.
` Our court reporter today is Cynthia
`Manning, in association with TSG Reporting.
` Will counsel please introduce yourselves
`for the record.
` MR. HAAG: Joseph Haag from WilmerHale
`representing the Patent Owner, Hewlett-Packard.
` MR. MACE: Andrew Mace with Cooley for the
`Petitioner, ServiceNow.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court reporter
`please swear in the witness.
`//
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` DAVID KLAUSNER,
` having first been duly sworn, testified as
` follows:
`
`Page 5
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please proceed.
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. HAAG:
` Q. Good morning.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Can you please state your full name?
` A. David Klausner.
` Q. And am I right that it's Mr. Klausner, not
`Dr. Klausner?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Have you been deposed before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Roughly how many times?
` A. I think in 60 different matters.
` Q. So quite a few times.
` A. Yes.
` Q. You've been through this before.
` A. I have not been deposed in an IPR
`proceeding.
` Q. You've never been an expert in an IPR?
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` A. Correct.
` Q. But you have been deposed maybe 60 times or
`so?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So you understand that you're under oath?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You understand that I'll be asking you a
`series of questions?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you're to answer my questions; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And if you don't understand one of my
`questions, will you let me know?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And if you need a break, go ahead
`and let me know as well.
` Okay?
` A. Thank you.
` Q. You understand why we're here today?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You submitted a declaration in connection
`with an IPR petition on behalf of ServiceNow; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And the patent at issue was the '229
`patent. Does that sound right?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. That's HP's patent; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. About how much time did you spend preparing
`your declaration for this petition?
` A. I don't remember.
` Q. Do you have a rough estimate?
` A. No.
` Q. Was it less than 100, more than 100?
` A. I don't remember.
` Q. How much time did you spend reviewing the
`'229 patent?
` A. In this recent time, probably several
`hours; five to ten hours.
` Q. What do you mean by "in this recent time"?
` A. Well, your question was not specific as to
`time.
` Q. So -- okay. Fair enough.
` And what did you mean by "recent time"?
` A. Within the last several weeks.
` Q. Okay. Did you prepare for your deposition?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When?
` A. Within the last several weeks.
` Q. How much time did you spend preparing for
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`your deposition?
` A. Probably about 20 hours.
` Q. And did you meet with your counsel to
`prepare for your deposition?
` A. I met with -- with counsel for ServiceNow.
` Q. Who?
` A. With Mr. Mace and with Mr. Weinstein.
` Q. When?
` A. Yesterday.
` Q. For how long?
` A. Under four hours.
` Q. Am I right that you live in Redwood City,
`California?
` A. Yes.
` (Deposition Exhibit 1003 was marked for
` identification)
`BY MR. HAAG:
` Q. I'm handing you a document that's been
`marked as Exhibit 1003.
` This was also Exhibit 1003 to ServiceNow's
`petition for IPR.
` And am I right, sir, that is this U.S.
`Patent Number 6,199,098?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And this is a patent to Jones; right?
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` A. Correct.
` Q. This is a patent that you relied on in your
`declaration with the petition; right?
` A. Yes._
` Q. You've reviewed this patent; am I right?
` A. I have.
` Q. Do you know how much time you spent
`reviewing this patent over the last, let's just say,
`year?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Do you have a rough estimate?
` A. No.
` Q. You spent a fair amount of time at least
`doing it? More than an hour?
` A. I don't have an estimate.
` Q. So I'd like to talk a little bit about what
`Jones relates to.
` Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So am I right that Jones discloses a method
`for navigating through information using a
`hierarchical table of contents?
` A. Yes, generally.
` Q. And the table of contents is expandable;
`right?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. It can be expanded or, if it's in its
`expanded state, it can be contracted; right?
` A. That's right.
` Q. And I think you'll see that in Figures 1A
`through 1E of the Jones patent; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So Figure 1A shows the table of contents in
`its basically contracted state; right?
` A. (Witness reviewing document.)
` Generally, that's so.
` I'm just looking at column 3, about line
`62, that describes Figure 1A.
` Q. And then Figure 1E shows the table of
`contents in a partially expanded mode; right?
` A. Generally, yes, referring to column 4.
` Q. And not all of the nodes have been expanded
`in Figure 1E; right?
` A. Right. As it shows, column 4, line 8, "an
`open node is expanded."
` Q. I'd like you to look at Figure 2 of the
`Jones patent, Exhibit 1003.
` A. I have it.
` Q. This is a figure you've seen before, right,
`sir?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. You're familiar with what's shown in this
`figure?
` A. Yes.
` Q. At the top is a client computer 100; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And at the bottom is a server computer 150;
`right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, am I right that the server computer of
`Jones includes a structure definition file 190 and a
`script 180?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You might also call that a "Script
`Program"; is that fair to?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What's the purpose of the structure
`definition file in Jones?
` A. It is a file that acts as a model or
`definition for processing to create the HTML version
`of the table of contents.
` Q. And what's the purpose of the Script
`Program 180?
` A. To process the structure definition file.
` Q. Am I right that the structure definition
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`file of Jones is a hard-coded file?
` A. How do you mean "hard-coded"?
` Q. Well, it was written by a user; right?
` A. Not necessarily.
` Q. It's a file that doesn't sort of change on
`the fly; right?
` A. I don't see where -- unless you can point
`me to where in Jones it is static, I don't see that
`it need be static.
` Q. Okay. Is there anything --
` What did you mean by "static"?
` A. Unchanging, as you said.
` Q. And would you contrast that with a file
`that's dynamic?
` A. Whose contents are dynamic.
` Q. Pardon me? I didn't hear what you said.
` A. Whose contents are dynamic, yes.
` Q. Can you just explain what you meant by
`that? I didn't understand your answer.
` A. It doesn't make any technical sense to me
`to say that a file is static or dynamic. It makes
`more sense to say its contents are either static or
`dynamic, unchanging or changeable.
` Q. Thank you.
` Am I right that the contents of the
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`structure definition file of Jones are static?
` A. I don't remember what the teaching is in
`Jones about the contents being unchangeable.
` Q. Does anything in Jones say that the
`structure definition -- strike that.
` Does anything in Jones say that the
`contents of the structure definition file are
`dynamic?
` A. If I might have a moment to refresh my
`memory.
` Q. Sure.
` A. (Witness reviewing document.)
` I don't see any restriction on -- either
`way on the contents of 190.
` Q. So just so I have a clear record, I'm going
`to ask this question again.
` Does anything in Jones say that the
`contents of the structure definition file are
`dynamic?
` A. Not that I can see.
` Q. So it's certainly possible that the
`contents of the structure definition file in Jones
`are static; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that's what you would expect the
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`contents to be; right?
` A. No.
` Q. Why do you say that?
` A. Because working with databases, it's often
`the case that the layouts of records change, the
`contents of the database changes; and so Jones' SDF
`file, or structure definition file, would change
`with them.
` Q. But nothing in Jones actually explains the
`contents of its structure definition file changing;
`correct?
` A. I don't see anything in Jones that
`literally says that.
` Q. So I'd like to go back to Figure 2, if you
`can, sir.
` A. I have it.
` Q. So you're at Figure 2 of Jones?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If a user on the client computer clicks on
`a node of the table of contents, what happens next
`in Jones?
` A. Generally, the click is recognized by the
`client computer and processed, and that processing
`includes accessing the node itself and going back to
`the server, as required, in order to generate HTML
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`back to the client for display.
` Q. Okay. So if we look at Figure 2, Figure 2
`shows an HTTP request 140 going from the client
`computer to the server computer; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And so if the user clicks on a node on the
`client computer, an HTTP request will be sent to the
`server computer; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And then am I correct that the server
`computer will process that HTTP request and send
`back an HTML page 145?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when the server computer does that
`processing, am I correct that it uses the structure
`definition file and the Script Program 180?
` A. Generally, yes.
` Q. Am I right that the HTML page 145 is a Web
`page?
` A. It's intended to be processed by the Web
`browser on the client as a Web page. It is a page
`for display.
` Q. So the HTML page 145 is used by the browser
`to display a Web page; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
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` Q. The table of contents that's displayed on
`the client computer can have different nodes opened
`or closed at different times; right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So how does the server computer know what
`HTML page to transmit back to the client computer so
`that the correct state of the table of contents will
`be displayed?
` A. I don't understand the question.
` Q. Well, the table of contents that's
`displayed on the client can change; right?
` A. It has an initial state and it can change.
` Q. And when you say "it has an initial state,"
`what did you mean by "state"?
` A. When it's displayed for the first time,
`it's the result -- that display is the result of
`HTML being sent back from the server to the client
`for processing by the browser so that the client
`sees something as a result of requesting or having
`requested a TOC, a table of contents. That's what I
`mean by "initial state."
` Q. Can -- I'm sorry.
` A. And that state persists until different
`HTML is sent to the client.
` Q. So the state of that table of contents can
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`change in Jones; is that right?
` A. Yes, "state" being a -- yes, I think that's
`true.
` Q. How does the state change?
` A. Typically, it changes because of some
`activity or action that takes place on the client
`side.
` Q. Such as a client clicking on a node of the
`table of contents?
` A. That's one example.
` Q. What are other examples?
` A. The client may refresh the page.
` Q. How does the server computer know which
`node should be opened or closed when it sends the
`HTML page to the client computer in Jones?
` A. After the initial state, the activity, for
`example, the client click, will indicate to the
`server computer how the display should change.
` Q. So does that mean that the HTML request 140
`indicates the state to the server computer?
` A. The HTTP request from the client indicates
`a packet of data, contains a packet of data, that's
`interpreted by the server to determine what kind of
`145 HTML page should be returned.
` Q. Am I right that the server in Jones uses
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`the structure definition file and Script Program to
`dynamically generate HTML code for the Web page?
` A. I think generally that's true.
` Q. And the Web page in Jones is this
`expandable table of contents; right?
` A. It comprises that, yes.
` Q. So you seem hesitant in answering my last
`question. Was there something -- is there something
`wrong about that?
` Is it not the table of contents that's
`being displayed?
` A. It includes the table of contents. It's --
`it's irrelevant and indeterminant as to what else
`may appear inside that box.
` Q. Okay. So you're just thinking that there
`might be something else aside from the table of
`contents that's displayed?
` A. It's at least the table of contents, and
`there are other parts that are irrelevant to Jones.
` My concern with the question is that the
`question -- as I understand it, you're asking me
`whether the page is the table of contents and
`nothing but the table of contents. And it's not
`specified or required by Jones as to what the rest
`of that page may look like.
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` Q. Okay. But one thing on the Web page is
`this expandable table of contents in Jones; right?
` A. Yes. That's what I answered.
` Q. Okay. Thank you.
` The Web page 145 that's sent from the
`server computer to the client computer in Jones can
`change over time; right?
` A. It can, but only in response to some
`activity or action.
` Q. By the user?
` A. Yes. Well, that's why I say "some activity
`or action."
` Q. What did you mean by "some activity or
`action"?
` A. It is possible to run scripts in one's
`browser automatically or via some add-in that cause
`activity in the browser to occur; for example,
`timeouts and injections of other characters, key
`strokes, things like that.
` So in an effort to be as complete as
`possible with my answer, then I have to say
`"activity or some action."
` Q. Fair enough.
` But the table of contents can have nodes
`that are expanded or contracted at different points
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`in time in Jones; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. An HTML page would be sent from the server
`computer to the client computer of Jones to form the
`table of contents shown in Figure 1A; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And an HTML page would also be sent from
`the server computer to the client computer in Jones
`to form the table of contents shown in Figure 1E;
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. The HTML page used to form the table of
`contents shown in Figure 1A would differ from the
`HTML page used to form the table of contents shown
`in Figure 1E; correct?
` A. Yes, I think that's true.
` Q. Are you at Figure 1E, sir?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So Figure 1E shows the expansion of the
`table of contents down to a leaf node labeled "White
`Papers 140"; is that right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And am I right that node 140, labeled
`"White Papers," provides a direct hypertextual link
`to relevant information located elsewhere on the
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`Web?
` A. How do you mean "located elsewhere on the
`Web"?
` Q. That's a fair question. Let me make this a
`little bit easier.
` Could you turn to column 5, lines 22 to 26
`in Jones.
` A. I have it.
` Q. Can you just read that out loud for us,
`please.
` A. Line 26, you say?
` Q. Lines 22 to 26, please.
` A. (Reading):
` "Figure 1E reflects expansion by the
` end-user of Software node 130 down through
` several levels of hierarchy, ultimately
` revealing leaf node 140 labeled 'White
` Papers' which provides a direct
` hypertextual link to relevant information
` located elsewhere on the Web."
` Q. And do you believe that sentence is
`accurate?
` A. I think it's accurate with the
`understanding that "elsewhere on the Web" means
`elsewhere other than within this particular page or
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`elsewhere other than this particular machine or
`elsewhere other than the current position.
` Q. So what did you mean by "elsewhere other
`than within this particular page"?
` A. It's possible that the hyperlink results in
`a jump to another location within the HTML page.
`It's also possible that the hyperlink results in a
`jump to or control pass to a portion of the
`information that resides elsewhere on the same
`machine. It's also possible that it goes to or
`results in a jump to another piece of information
`across the cable on the server. And it's possible
`that that also results in a jump to information
`stored outside of the mechanism displayed in Figure
`2.
` Q. So I just want to make sure I understand
`what you're referring to.
` Why don't we look at Figure 1E and maybe
`that will help. So we're talking about node 140
`labeled "White Papers"; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And a user can click on that; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And then the user is going to jump
`somewhere else or the display will jump somewhere
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`else?
` A. The display will change and processing will
`take place to retrieve "White Papers."
` Q. You worded that much better than I did, so
`thank you.
` Because the user is not necessarily jumping
`to a different document, that's one of the opinions
`you were trying to make; right?
` A. It's possible they don't.
` Q. It might be within the same document?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So when the user clicks on "White Papers
`140," they may be directed to a location below
`within the same document that's being displayed?
` A. It's possible.
` Q. And when the user clicks on node 140, they
`may also jump to a different Web page; is that
`right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And that appears to be what the patent was
`referring to when it mentioned "located elsewhere on
`the Web"; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So how does the server computer know where
`to go when the user clicks on node 140?
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` A. If the browser determines that the server
`computer should be --
` MR. MACE: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: -- I've forgotten the
`question. Can I hear the question?
`BY MR. HAAG:
` Q. I've forgotten the question, too. Must not
`have been a good one, though.
` Am I right that the server computer reads
`the hypertextual link to determine where to go to
`form the display on the client's computer?
` A. I'm hesitating because the question is
`technically not correct.
` There is a server software within the
`server computer that processes HTTP requests and
`invokes various programs in order to handle that, or
`may invoke other programs to handle that, and so --
`but, generally, yes, it's an anthropomorphization of
`the server computer implied in your question.
` Q. I kind of butchered the question, but the
`answer is generally yes?
` A. Generally yes.
` Q. Fair enough.
` Is the term "hypertextual link" one that
`you typically use?
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` A. I, typically, myself use "hotlink" or
`"hypertext link."
` Q. I'm sorry, "hypertext link"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Would you also use --
` A. Or just "hypertext."
` Q. I'm sorry?
` A. Or just "hypertext."
` Q. Would you also use the term "URL"?
` A. In some cases. In context, it would be
`something I might use, but URL generally is -- well,
`URL is not always hypertext.
` Q. So hypertext link is a broader term than
`URL or narrower term?
` A. Hypertext or a hotlink can contain a URL,
`but a URL is not necessarily a hotlink. For
`example, you have a URL in the address line of the
`browser. That's not a hotlink. That's typically
`the address of the current page.
` Q. Why don't you go to column 8, line 45 of
`Jones.
` Are you there, sir?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And if you could read the sentence
`beginning with "if the" on line 45. If you could
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`read that out loud, please.
` A. (Reading):
` "If the node is a leaf node and its entry
` in structure definition file 190 includes
` an explicit URL, then that URL is encoded
` as a hypertext link for that node's entry
` in the Web page."
` Q. Does that sentence make sense to you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What's an "explicit URL"?
` A. I understand that to be a text that
`includes the standard or the type of reference, for
`example, HTTP or FTP or AFP or something, with a
`colon, slash, slash, and then a domain reference
`that typically is something like google.com or an IP
`address followed by a slash and then some other
`optional information.
` Q. If you can turn to column 7 of the Jones
`patent, please.
` A. Oh, on my prior answer, I meant protocol.
`The preface "HTTP," "AFP," "FTP" are protocols. So
`it indicates what protocol is being transmitted.
` And your current question?
` Q. Pardon me?
` A. What is your current question?
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` Q. If you could turn to column 7 of the Jones
`patent.
` A. I have it.
` Q. And between roughly lines 28 and 54 of
`column 7 of Jones, there is a sample structure
`definition file; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You've reviewed that before; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is there a hypertextual link shown anywhere
`in that sample structure definition file?
` A. I think the one in the level 4 leaf node
`that starts with the text "SWSTDVRPAP" has a form of
`text that starts /Technology/whitepapers.html#VRML
`and that's understood, by convention, to be an
`HTTP:// preface.
` Q. And can you just tell me which part of that
`is a hypertextual link?
` MR. MACE: Object to form.
` THE WITNESS: After the vertical bar.
`BY MR. HAAG:
` Q. And so by that do you mean
`/Technology/whitepapers.html#VRML?
` A. Yes, that is a hotlink, as I would call it,
`to a relative location from what the server
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`understands as current location followed by
`/technology. So its current domain, et cetera, and
`then the reference to the sublocation "Technology,"
`sublocation "whitepapers.html" with the fragment
`"VRML."
` Q. What is the fragment VRML in that
`hypertextual link?
` A. It's data passed to the processor as part
`of the packet or part of the information to be
`processed to find, for example, VRML inside the
`White Papers and cause the browser to display that
`section by jumping to it.
` Q. What did you mean by "processed to find,
`for example, VRML inside the White Papers"?
` A. In the White Papers HTML document, if there
`is a section with the text "VRML," then that section
`would be positioned to be displayed to the user in
`the browser.
` Q. Would that section of the whitepapers.html
`document need to have a tag associated with it for
`VRML?
` A. It may need a tag.
` Q. Is there a term you use for that tag, like
`"anchor tag" or something like that?
` A. Well, it may be a named section. It could
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`be a paragraph tag.
` Q. And am I right that the Fox reference
`refers to it as an "anchor tag"?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. So we've been looking at the sample
`structure definition file in Jones, column 7, lines
`28 through 54, and you identified for me a
`hypertextual link in that structure definition file;
`right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is there a URL shown in that sample
`structure definition file?
` A. I'm checking that.
` (Witness reviewing document.)
` Yes. On line 4 -- I'm sorry. The element
`of the SDF that is at level 4.
` Q. By "SDF," you mean structure definition
`file?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And by "level 4" you mean what?
` A. At line 48, in column 7. The
`"/technology," beginning with "/technology."
` Q. Okay. So in the case of the structure
`definition file in column 7 of the Jones patent, the
`URL is the same as the hypertextual link; is that
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`right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So for my next question, I'd like you to
`assume that there is a whitepapers.html document.
` Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And I'd also like you to assume that it has
`a tag section for VRML.
` Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If the user in Jones clicks on the White
`Papers node 140, that will cause the browser to open
`to the whitepapers.html document; right?
` A. Generally, yes.
` Q. And the VRML section within the
`whitepapers.html document will be displayed; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And, again, that's assuming that there is a
`VRML tag or paragraph in the whitepapers.html
`document; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And what happens if there is no tagged
`section for VRML in the whitepapers.html document?
` A. The whitepapers.html would be displayed,
`typically, from its beginning.
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` Q. And it is possible that there is no VRML
`tag in a document such as whitepapers.html; right?
` A. Well, it is your hypothetical, so you would
`need to specify if it's there or no.
` Q. But that's something that is within the
`realm of possibility; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What happens if there is no
`whitepapers.html document?
` A. The -- typically, the browser will return
`the obnoxious 404 message or something that says
`"page not found." There may be other things that
`could happen.
` Q. Am I right that the structure definition
`file of Jones is not an information repository?
` A. It would probably be best if I had my
`declaration where I state what the meaning of that
`term is as a term in the patent.
` Q. So your construction of information
`repository, which was adopted in the PTAB's initial
`decision, is "a collection of information."
` Do you recall that?
` A. Vaguely, yes.
` Q. Am I right that the structure definition
`file of Jones is not an information repository?
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` A. I'm pausing because any file can be -- in
`certain circumstances that meet the construction of
`that term, can be an information repository.
` Q. So let me -- I'm sorry, were you done?
` A. It can be used that way --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- meaning it's a repository of
`information, even though it is typically used for
`some other purpose.
` Q. You understand that the '229 patent uses
`the term "information repository"; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You don't claim that the structure
`definition file of Jones is the claimed "information
`repository" from the '229 patent; correct?
` A. I don't -- it would be best if I saw my
`declaration to be able to answer your question.
` MR. HAAG: Sir, I'm handing you a document
`that's been marked as Exhibit 1002. This was also
`ServiceNow's Exhibit Number 1002 from its IPR
`petition.
` (Deposition Exhibit 1002 was marked for
` identification)
` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
`//
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`BY MR. HAAG:
` Q. Do you have that document, sir?
` A. I have it.
` Q. And am I right that Exhibit 1002 is the
`Declaration of David Klausner?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And this is the declaration you referred to
`a couple moments ago; right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So I'm going to reask my question. Okay,
`sir?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You do not claim that the structure
`definition file of Jones is the claimed "information
`repository" from the '229 patent; correct?
` A. And may I also have the '229 patent?
` Q. Yes. Yes, you may.
` (Deposition Exhibit 1001
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