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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`------------------------------:
`APPLE, INC., :
` :
` Petitioner, :
` :
` vs. : Case IPR2015-00369
` : Patent 6,128,290
`DSS TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT, :
`INC., :
` :
` Patent Owner. :
`------------------------------:
`
` Washington, D.C.
` Wednesday, February 17, 2016
`Deposition of:
` JING HU, PH.D.
` called for oral examination by counsel for
`Patent Owner, pursuant to notice, at Sterne
`Kessler Goldstein Fox, 1100 New York Avenue,
`Northwest, Washington, D.C., before Shari R.
`Broussard, RPR, CSR, of Capital Reporting Company,
`a Notary Public in and for the District of
`Columbia, beginning at 10:02 a.m., when were
`present on behalf of the respective parties:
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`(866) 448 - DEPO
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`Capital Reporting Company
`Hu, Jing 02-17-2016
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`------------------------------:
`APPLE, INC., :
` :
` Petitioner, :
` :
` vs. : Case IPR2015-00369
` : Patent 6,128,290
`DSS TECHNOLOGY MANAGEMENT, :
`INC., :
` :
` Patent Owner. :
`------------------------------:
`
` Washington, D.C.
` Wednesday, February 17, 2016
`Deposition of:
` JING HU, PH.D.
` called for oral examination by counsel for
`Patent Owner, pursuant to notice, at Sterne
`Kessler Goldstein Fox, 1100 New York Avenue,
`Northwest, Washington, D.C., before Shari R.
`Broussard, RPR, CSR, of Capital Reporting Company,
`a Notary Public in and for the District of
`Columbia, beginning at 10:02 a.m., when were
`present on behalf of the respective parties:
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`(866) 448 - DEPO
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`Capital Reporting Company
`Hu, Jing 02-17-2016
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`1 A P P E A R A N C E S
`2 On behalf of Petitioner:
`3 DAVID K.S. CORNWELL, ESQUIRE
` JASON A. FITZSIMMONS, ESQUIRE
`4 MARK W. RYGIEL, ESQUIRE
` Sterne Kessler Goldstein Fox
`5 1100 New York Avenue, Northwest
` Washington, D.C. 20005
`6 (202) 371-2600
` davidc@skgf.com
`7 jfitzsimmons@skgf.com
` mrygiel@skgf.com
`8 - and -
` DAVID ALBERTI, ESQUIRE
`9 Feinberg Day Alberti & Thompson, L.L.P.
` 1600 El Camino Real, Suite 280
`10 Menlo Park, California 94025
` (650) 384-9869
`11 dalberti@feinday.com
`12
`13
`14 On behalf of Patent Owner:
`15 ANDRIY LYTVYN, ESQUIRE
` ANTON HOPEN, ESQUIRE
`16 NICHOLAS PFEIFER, ESQUIRE
` Smith & Hopen
`17 180 Pine Avenue North
` Oldsmar, Florida 34677
`18 (800) 807-3531
` andriy.lytvyn@smithhopen.com
`19 - and -
` MARK PERANTIE, ESQUIRE
`20 Buether Joe & Carpenter, L.L.C.
` 1700 Pacific Avenue, Suite 4750
`21 Dallas, Texas 75201
` (214) 466-1279
`22 mark.perantie@bjciplaw.com
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`Capital Reporting Company
`Hu, Jing 02-17-2016
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`1 C O N T E N T S
`2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
`3 Counsel for Patent Owner 4
`
`3
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`4 5 6 7 8 9
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`10
`11
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18 (*No Exhibits were marked.)
`19
`20
`21
`22
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`Hu, Jing 02-17-2016
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`1 P R O C E E D I N G S
`2 WHEREUPON,
`3 JING HU, PH.D.
`4 called as a witness, and having been sworn by the
`5 notary public, was examined and testified as
`6 follows:
`7 EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PATENT OWNER
`8 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`9 Q Dr. Hu, well, first of all let me
`10 introduce myself for the record. My name is
`11 Andriy Lytvyn. I'm representing DSS, the patent
`12 owner.
`13 MR. HOPEN: Good morning, Dr. Hu. My
`14 name is Anton Hopen. I also represent DSS.
`15 MR. PFEIFER: My name is Nick Pfeifer,
`16 also representing DSS.
`17 MR. PERANTIE: My name is Mark Perantie,
`18 also representing DSS.
`19 MR. LYTVYN: Do you guys want to
`20 introduce yourself for the record?
`21 MR. CORNWELL: Yes. I'm David Cornell.
`22 I represent Apple.
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`1 MR. FITZSIMMONS: Jason Fitzsimmons,
`2 representing Apple.
`3 MR. RYGIEL: Mark Rygiel, representing
`4 Apple.
`5 MR. ALBERTI: David Alberti,
`6 representing Apple.
`7 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`8 Q Dr. Hu, before we start, let's lay down
`9 some ground rules. Have you been deposed before?
`10 A Yes, I have.
`11 Q So you understand that you're under oath
`12 and everything you say must be truthful and
`13 accurate?
`14 A Yes, I do.
`15 Q And are you under the influence of any
`16 medications, substances that would prevent you
`17 from truthfully answering the questions?
`18 A No, I'm not.
`19 Q And are you taking any medications that
`20 could affect your memory?
`21 A No, I'm not.
`22 Q So if you don't understand a question
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`1 please ask me to repeat and I will do so.
`2 A (Nodding.)
`3 Q Also, we are on the record so please
`4 answer all questions verbally so that the court
`5 reporter can record your answers.
`6 A Okay, I will.
`7 Q Okay. And this is not a sprint so we'll
`8 try to take breaks about every hour or so. So --
`9 and if you ever need a break at any point, please
`10 indicate and we'll try to accommodate.
`11 A Sounds good.
`12 Q Okay. So let's start with the '290
`13 patent.
`14 A Thank you.
`15 Q And this is Exhibit Apple 1001; am I
`16 correct?
`17 MR. CORNWELL: Do you have an extra copy
`18 for counsel?
`19 MR. LYTVYN: Do you have one?
`20 MR. HOPEN: Sure.
`21 MR. CORNWELL: Thank you.
`22 MR. HOPEN: You're welcome.
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`1 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`2 Q So Dr. Hu, when you were examining the
`3 '290 patent, what time frame did you use?
`4 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`5 Objection, foundation.
`6 MR. LYTVYN: Let me rephrase it.
`7 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`8 Q Dr. Hu, when you were analyzing the '290
`9 patent, what was the time frame for the knowledge
`10 of skill in the art that you applied?
`11 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`12 Objection, foundation.
`13 THE WITNESS: I analyzed the '290 patent
`14 in the view of a person of ordinary skill in the
`15 art in the time frame between 1996 and 1997. I
`16 also reviewed relevant art in the early '90s and
`17 prior to that as well.
`18 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`19 Q Okay. So let's lay down the foundation.
`20 Have you reviewed the '290 patent in preparation
`21 for your deposition?
`22 A Yes, I have.
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`1 Q What other documents have you reviewed
`2 in preparation for this deposition?
`3 A I have reviewed the documents listed in
`4 my declaration as references that I have cited in
`5 my declaration. I have reviewed some other
`6 documents that are not listed in my declaration
`7 that speak to the relevant art at the time of the
`8 claimed invention of the '290 patent.
`9 Q What are those documents?
`10 A I have looked at ISO standards, IQU
`11 standards, work that I have done in the past
`12 relevant to -- to the technologies that we're
`13 talking about.
`14 Q When you refer to the ISO standard,
`15 which standard did you refer to?
`16 A I reviewed the ISO standards for HDLC in
`17 preparation for this deposition.
`18 Q Are you aware that there are several
`19 revisions of the ISO standard for HDLC?
`20 A Yes, I reviewed the original one in the
`21 late 1970s, as well as the later revisions.
`22 Q And which later revisions did you
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`1 review?
`2 A I reviewed some around the time most
`3 especially around the '96 to '97 time frame.
`4 Q Okay. So let's talk about your
`5 background a little bit.
`6 So the '290 patent, as you just
`7 established the relevant time frame is 1996 to
`8 1997, at that time were you a person of ordinary
`9 skill in the art in the field?
`10 A I wasn't a person of ordinary skill in
`11 the art at the time frame between 1996 and 1997.
`12 Q Okay. What was your level of knowledge
`13 pertaining to wireless data communications in this
`14 time frame?
`15 A At that time frame, as I said, I wasn't
`16 a person of ordinary skill in the art.
`17 Q When did your knowledge and experience
`18 in the field of wireless data communications
`19 become sufficient for you to qualify as a person
`20 of ordinary skill in the art?
`21 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, relevance.
`22 THE WITNESS: As I outlined in my
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`1 declaration, a person of ordinary skill in the art
`2 for this IPR case and to analyze the '290 patent
`3 and the prior art references should be one who has
`4 a college degree in the EE or related field and
`5 one to two years of experience. I would have
`6 to -- I would have become a person of ordinary
`7 skill myself in the time frame of 2002 and 2003.
`8 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`9 Q Okay. So is it a proper
`10 characterization that your knowledge and
`11 experience in the field of wireless data
`12 communications was acquired subsequent to the
`13 relevant time frame of the '290 patent?
`14 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, relevance.
`15 THE WITNESS: As -- as I'm -- as today
`16 and has been many years, I am an expert in the
`17 data communications over wired and wireless
`18 networks. And so sitting here today, and also
`19 during the course of my -- preparing my
`20 declaration I am an expert at -- my expertise
`21 allows me to go back into the time frame of '96 to
`22 '97, when the '290 patent was applied, to analyze
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`1 what a person of ordinary skill in the relevant
`2 art, what their views at that time frame.
`3 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`4 Q So when you became a person of ordinary
`5 skill in the art in the field of wireless data
`6 communications, you have acquired knowledge that
`7 was introduced into the field after the
`8 subsequent -- subsequent to the relevant time
`9 frame of the '290 patent; is that correct?
`10 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`11 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat your
`12 question?
`13 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`14 Q Sure.
`15 During your studies, which you indicate
`16 a person of ordinary skill in the art would have a
`17 bachelor degree and at least two years of
`18 experience, so during your possession of that
`19 bachelor degree and that experience, were you
`20 exposed to developments in the art that post-dated
`21 the relevant time frame of the '290 patent?
`22 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
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`1 THE WITNESS: During my experience of
`2 education, innovation, and making products in the
`3 industry, a big part of that, my expertise, is to
`4 study the -- and to write about the evolution of
`5 relevant technologies in the recent history, not
`6 only 1996, 1997, even 1980s and 1950s, because
`7 whenever I propose an invention or a design I have
`8 to make sure that it hadn't been proposed before
`9 if I was going to say that it is my invention; and
`10 also the products that I develop have to work in
`11 those technologies that although were developed a
`12 while ago but were still used. And personally I
`13 have worked on products that were from the
`14 relevant technologies from the 1990s.
`15 Q In your analysis of the '290 patent, did
`16 you take any precautionary measures to separate
`17 your knowledge pertaining to the systems that were
`18 known during the 1996, 1997 time frame and the
`19 ones that came afterwards?
`20 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`21 THE WITNESS: Can you repeat your
`22 question?
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`1 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`2 Q Sure.
`3 You indicated that you acquired
`4 knowledge of systems both past and subsequent to
`5 the priority date of the '290 patent.
`6 Did you take -- well, when you were
`7 analyzing the '290 patent and the relevant prior
`8 art, did you take any precautions in making sure
`9 that knowledge of the systems subsequent to the
`10 relevant time frame did not enter your analysis?
`11 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`12 THE WITNESS: When I analyzed the '290
`13 patents and the -- and the prior arts that we're
`14 talking about, not only that I separated my own
`15 knowledge of what -- of -- of the technology
`16 during or prior to the '96 and '97 time frame or
`17 after that, but also I am very careful of what a
`18 person of ordinary skill in the art at that time
`19 frame would have known.
`20 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`21 Q Do you understand the legal concept of
`22 hindsight as it pertains to patent law?
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`1 A I have an understanding of it.
`2 Q And what is your understanding?
`3 A My understanding is that when we look at
`4 the prior art references, we would have to look at
`5 from the standpoint of a person of ordinary skill
`6 at the time without having the patent-in-suit in
`7 the mind to understand if the person of ordinary
`8 skill at the time would naturally arrive at a
`9 reference when he or she was searching for the --
`10 a solution to a problem or to the patent
`11 development technologies.
`12 Q Okay. So do you consider yourself to be
`13 an expert in wireless data communications?
`14 A Yes, absolutely.
`15 Q And do you consider yourself to be an
`16 expert in HDLC?
`17 A Yes, I do.
`18 Q And have you taken any classes
`19 pertaining to HDLC?
`20 A I taught -- I took classes myself during
`21 my education. I also have lectured on HDLC.
`22 Q Okay.
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`1 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`2 Q Here's Exhibit Apple 2014. Do you
`3 recognize this document?
`4 A Yes, I do.
`5 MR. CORNWELL: Do you have a copy of
`6 that document?
`7 MR. HOPEN: Yeah, we --
`8 MR. CORNWELL: Just to make the record
`9 clear, I believe this is Exhibit 1014.
`10 MR. LYTVYN: 1014, correct.
`11 MR. CORNWELL: I think you said 2014.
`12 MR. LYTVYN: Yes, I stand corrected.
`13 MR. CORNWELL: Okay.
`14 MR. HOPEN: Here you go.
`15 MR. CORNWELL: Thank you.
`16 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`17 Q Dr. Hu, do you recognize this document?
`18 A Yes, I do.
`19 Q And what is it?
`20 A This is my declaration submitted in
`21 relation to Apple's reply to the patent owner's
`22 response in this IPR case.
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`1 Q And can you please go -- did you write
`2 this declaration yourself?
`3 A Yes, I did.
`4 Q Did you have any assistance from counsel
`5 in writing this declaration?
`6 A Counsels have typed up certain
`7 paragraphs under my direction.
`8 Q Can you identify which paragraphs?
`9 A I'm sorry?
`10 Q Can you identify which paragraphs were
`11 typed by your counsel and which ones were
`12 introduced by you?
`13 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`14 Objection, relevance.
`15 THE WITNESS: I can't. It was a very
`16 dynamic process.
`17 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`18 Q Did you review your declaration in
`19 preparation for the deposition?
`20 A Yes, I did.
`21 Q Do you still agree with everything in
`22 this declaration?
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`1 A Yes, I agree with everything I said in
`2 the declaration.
`3 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`4 Q Here is the Natarajan reference.
`5 MR. LYTVYN: David, do you know the
`6 exhibit number off the top of your head?
`7 MR. CORNWELL: I don't.
`8 MR. LYTVYN: Okay. I do have it. It's
`9 Apple 1003.
`10 MR. CORNWELL: Now, that's -- just for
`11 the record, that's not on the patent, but I assume
`12 this is identical to what is previously marked
`13 Apple 1003.
`14 MR. LYTVYN: Yes.
`15 MR. CORNWELL: Okay.
`16 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`17 Q Have you reviewed this reference in
`18 preparation of your declaration?
`19 A Yes, I have.
`20 Q And have you reviewed this reference in
`21 preparation for the deposition?
`22 A Can you repeat that?
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`1 Q Have you reviewed this reference in
`2 preparation for this deposition?
`3 A Yes. I thought that was your previous
`4 question.
`5 Q My previous question was have you
`6 reviewed it when you were preparing your
`7 declaration.
`8 A Okay. Yes and yes.
`9 MR. CORNWELL: And just to be clear,
`10 when you say "this reference" --
`11 MR. LYTVYN: I refer to Natarajan United
`12 States Patent 5,241,542, Exhibit Apple 1003.
`13 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`14 Q Could you open your declaration to page
`15 ten, please.
`16 A Yes.
`17 Q Could you please read the last sentence
`18 on page ten, paragraph 28, and continue reading it
`19 until the sentence ends on page 11.
`20 A From "Natarajan describes"?
`21 Q Could you please read the question on
`22 page ten, the last sentence -- sorry.
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`1 Could you please read the last sentence
`2 on page ten, paragraph 28?
`3 A "Natarajan describes that the base
`4 station can be a 'conventional microcomputer' and
`5 that the mobile units can be 'handheld'" -- "can
`6 be a 'handheld or laptop computer'."
`7 Q When you were analyzing the Natarajan
`8 reference, did you give any importance to the fact
`9 that the base stations are described as
`10 conventional microcomputers and mobile units are
`11 described as handheld or laptop computers?
`12 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`13 THE WITNESS: When I analyzed the
`14 Natarajan reference, I noted, as I cited in my
`15 declaration, that the base station can be a
`16 conventional microcomputer and the micro -- and
`17 the mobile units can be a handheld or laptop
`18 computer.
`19 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`20 Q And what is your understanding of the
`21 distinction?
`22 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
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`1 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`2 Q What is your understanding of the
`3 distinction between a conventional microcomputer
`4 and a handheld or laptop computer?
`5 A I -- my understanding is that myself and
`6 a person of ordinary skill in the art at the time
`7 frame of '96 to '97 will understand the base
`8 station to be of -- to be the form of a
`9 conventional microcomputer and the mobile units
`10 can be handheld or laptop computer.
`11 Q Is it your understanding that there's
`12 significance -- sorry, let me rephrase that.
`13 Do you have give any significance to the
`14 fact that Natarajan describes the base units and
`15 the mobile units in such a way?
`16 A A person of ordinary skill in the art at
`17 the time of the '96 and '97 time frame that we've
`18 been talking about, reading this Natarajan
`19 reference, would understand, as the inventor
`20 explained, that the base station, being
`21 conventional microcomputer, and the mobile units,
`22 being handheld or laptop computer, they have the
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`1 same apparatus when it comes to the transceivers;
`2 and the conventional microcomputer functioning as
`3 the central unit has an additional program that
`4 will allocate the time for -- to transmit and to
`5 receive for the rest -- for itself and the rest of
`6 the mobile units in the system.
`7 Q Are there any distinctions between the
`8 conventional microcomputer and handheld or laptop
`9 computers other than the protocol under which they
`10 operate?
`11 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`12 THE WITNESS: That's a very broad
`13 question. And it would be in the context of
`14 Natarajan reference a person of ordinary skill in
`15 the art would have understood their difference and
`16 similarities based on what I just said.
`17 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`18 Q Are there any structural differences?
`19 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`20 THE WITNESS: Again, that's -- that's a
`21 very broad question.
`22 What's relevant in the Natarajan patent,
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`1 as explained by the inventors, are that the mobile
`2 units and the conventional microcomputer have
`3 exactly the same transceiver apparatuses and they
`4 apply to the same protocol except that the
`5 conventional microcomputer acting as a central
`6 device is the one that allocates the time slots
`7 for all the devices in the network.
`8 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`9 Q You said this was a very broad question.
`10 Could you identify some specific differences
`11 between a conventional microcomputer and the
`12 handheld or laptop computer?
`13 A So --
`14 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`15 Objection, relevance.
`16 THE WITNESS: Within this patent?
`17 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`18 Q Do you believe that a person of ordinary
`19 skill in the art would understand what a
`20 conventional microcomputer is in the 1996-1997
`21 time frame?
`22 A I think the person of ordinary skill in
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`1 the art at the time frame of 1996 and 1997, while
`2 reading the Natarajan reference, would understand
`3 that the base station is a conventional
`4 microcomputer and also it is the inventor's
`5 intention to obtain true portability in
`6 microcomputers and workstations, and
`7 battery-powered operation is essential for those
`8 conventional microcomputers.
`9 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`10 Q So it is your opinion that conventional
`11 microcomputer is battery operated?
`12 A It is my opinion that a person of
`13 ordinary skill in the art at the time frame of '96
`14 and '97, reading the Natarajan reference, will
`15 consider the base station, described as a
`16 conventional microcomputer, can be battery powered
`17 and a portable -- true portability is a goal
`18 for -- in the design of such conventional
`19 microcomputers.
`20 Q In your opinion, what's the reason why
`21 Natarajan uses different nomenclature to
`22 distinguish between the base stations and the
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`1 mobile units when describing base stations as
`2 conventional microcomputers and mobile units as
`3 handheld or laptop computers?
`4 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`5 Objection, foundation.
`6 THE WITNESS: My --
`7 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`8 Q Oh, sorry. Let me rephrase.
`9 If base stations and mobile units were the same,
`10 wouldn't Natarajan use the same nomenclature to
`11 identify them as such?
`12 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, foundation.
`13 Objection, form.
`14 THE WITNESS: My opinion is that a
`15 person of ordinary skill of the art at the time
`16 frame between 1996 and '97, reading the Natarajan
`17 reference, would understand that the base station
`18 and the mobile units have exactly the same
`19 transceiver apparatus and they use the same
`20 communication protocols; and the base station has
`21 additional function of acting as the central
`22 station by allocating time frames for the rest of
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`1 -- for itself and the rest of the devices in the
`2 system.
`3 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`4 Q Okay. Can you take a look at Figure 1
`5 of the Natarajan reference.
`6 Please describe what you see in this
`7 figure.
`8 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, relevance.
`9 THE WITNESS: I will refer to how the --
`10 how Figure 1 is described by the inventor in this
`11 specification of the Natarajan reference.
`12 The inventor said, and I agree, that
`13 Figure 1 depicts mobile stations 10, 12, 14 and 16
`14 that communicate wireless links.
`15 Gateways referred to as base stations
`16 are augmented, according to the invention, to
`17 provide certain radio system management functions
`18 which coordinate the mobile station's access to
`19 the common radio channel.
`20 Communications between mobile stations
`21 is supported by a relay through the base station
`22 26 and 28.
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`1 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`2 Q Can you go to page 13 of your
`3 declaration, please.
`4 Could you please read the sentence in
`5 the first paragraph that starts with the word
`6 "Because"?
`7 A Page 13 you said?
`8 Q Page 13, the first paragraph, four lines
`9 down?
`10 A "Because the mobile units know the order
`11 and number of data packets to be transmitted, each
`12 mobile unit that will be receiving data can
`13 compute when its destinated transmission slot will
`14 be, go to sleep until that time, and wake itself
`15 up in its designated time slot to receive data."
`16 Q Thank you.
`17 And in the 1996-97 time frame, how
`18 accurate was this computation? To what degree of
`19 accuracy could a mobile unit compute the time at
`20 which it needs to wake up to receive data?
`21 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`22 THE WITNESS: At the '96 and '97 time
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`1 frame, a person of ordinary skill in the art
`2 understands that the timer drifting is a problem;
`3 and the system, as described in Natarajan, has a
`4 timer that's accurate enough to accommodate the
`5 time period that it needs to receive the signal
`6 from its transceiver -- from its transmitters.
`7 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`8 Q Do you have any knowledge as to what the
`9 time accuracy might be?
`10 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`11 THE WITNESS: My knowledge and a person
`12 of ordinary skill in the art, his or her knowledge
`13 at the time of the invention is that
`14 synchronization is an important part in the
`15 communication that compensates for the timer
`16 accuracy problem. And the design with
`17 synchronization established and maintained, the
`18 timers will act accurately to the degree that the
`19 design provides.
`20 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`21 Q Are you familiar with the concept of bit
`22 synchronization?
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`1 A Can you repeat your question?
`2 Q Are you familiar with the concept of bit
`3 synchronization?
`4 A Bit synchronization?
`5 Q Yes.
`6 A Yes, I am.
`7 Q And to what degree do the two devices
`8 need to be synchronized in order to achieve bit
`9 synchronization in the 1996-'97 time frame?
`10 A Are you asking within the context of
`11 Natarajan?
`12 Q Within the context of your knowledge as
`13 a person of ordinary skill in the art.
`14 A Bit synchronization is a concept that
`15 deals with one particular application or scenario
`16 in communication where bit synchronization is
`17 required. It often happens in the so-called
`18 synchronous transmission when the transmitter and
`19 receiver need to be tightly coupled to establish
`20 the bit synchronization.
`21 In most of the communication bit
`22 synchronization is not required. The
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`1 synchronization is established and maintained so
`2 that data -- date information can be transmitted
`3 in -- they will be delineated with the starting
`4 flag and ending flag or some other types of
`5 headers and tail information. So there can be
`6 gaps in between those packets or units or chunks,
`7 and the -- the transmission is synchronized in the
`8 sense that the data transmitted can be received
`9 and accurately understood by the receiver.
`10 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`11 Q Just to make sure I understood you
`12 correctly, when analyzing the Natarajan reference,
`13 your understanding is that bit synchronization is
`14 not important to the system disclosed in the
`15 Natarajan reference?
`16 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`17 Objection, foundation.
`18 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`19 Q Did you consider bit synchronization
`20 when you analyzed the Natarajan reference?
`21 A Yes, I considered bit synchronization
`22 when I considered the row of idle word in the
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`1 reference Neve. And as, in general, as one
`2 scenario of communication I considered it.
`3 Q Is it your understanding that the system
`4 disclosed in Natarajan is bit synchronized?
`5 A It is to my understanding a person of
`6 ordinary skill in the art at the time frame '96
`7 and '97, reading the Natarajan reference, would
`8 not characterize it as bit synchronized system.
`9 Q Okay.
`10 A But that is not to say that the bits --
`11 that the person of ordinary skill in the art will
`12 understand that it is a system that is
`13 synchronized and the bits are correctly
`14 transmitted and received by the base station and
`15 by the mobile units in the system.
`16 Q But the system in Natarajan does not
`17 require bit synchronization; is that correct?
`18 A Not in the sense that each bit needs to
`19 be sent in the mode that the transmitter and
`20 receiver are synchronized in the synchronous
`21 communication mode.
`22 Q Okay. Can you please go to page 22 of
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`1 your declaration.
`2 Can you please read paragraph 52, ending
`3 with the words "field structure" in the middle of
`4 the paragraph?
`5 A Ending with -- starting from where?
`6 Q Starting at the beginning on page 52
`7 (sic) and ending with the words "field structure"
`8 about in the middle of the --
`9 A "Pages 135 to 136 of Schwartz and Figure
`10 4-9, reproduced below, provide a concise summary
`11 of the HDLC frame format as it would have been
`12 understood by a person of ordinary skill in the
`13 art: The standard frame format for HDLC (ADCCP
`14 and SDLC have the same format) appears in Figure
`15 4-9. Note that the number of overhead control
`16 bits is L prime equals 48, just the number used
`17 earlier for calculations.
`18 "The eight-bit flag sequence 01111110
`19 that appears at the beginning and end of a frame
`20 is used to establish and maintain synchronization.
`21 Because the flag appears at the beginning and end
`22 of the frame there is no need to prescribe an
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`1 information field structure."
`2 Q Thank you.
`3 Is it your opinion that this eight-bit
`4 flag sequence is used to establish and maintain
`5 synchronization in the system disclosed in
`6 Natarajan?
`7 MR. CORNWELL: Objection, form.
`8 Objection, foundation.
`9 THE WITNESS: It is my understanding as
`10 a person of ordinary skill in the art at the time
`11 frame of '96 and '97 would understand these eight
`12 bits as well as the -- yes, the-- these eight bits
`13 appear both at the beginning and end of a frame of
`14 data packet is part of mechanisms that establish
`15 and maintain synchronization between the
`16 transmitter and the receiver in Natarajan, and
`17 there are various parts of the mechanism that
`18 establish and maintain synchronization.
`19 BY MR. LYTVYN:
`20 Q Have you reviewed the Schwar
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