Page 1908
`
` BEFORE THE
` UNITED STATES INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISSION
`___________________________
`In the Matter of: ) Investigation No.
`CERTAIN WIRELESS DEVICES ) 337-TA-800
`WITH 3G CAPABILITIES AND )
`COMPONENTS THEREOF )
`___________________________
` Hearing Room C
`
` United States
` International Trade Commission
` 500 E Street, Southwest
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Wednesday, February 20, 2013
`
` VOLUME VI
`
` The parties met, pursuant to the notice of the
`Judge, at 9:30 a.m.
`
` BEFORE: THE HONORABLE DAVID P. SHAW
`
`
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00001
`
`
`
` BEFORE THE
` UNITED STATES INTERNATIONAL TRADE COMMISSION
`___________________________
`In the Matter of: ) Investigation No.
`CERTAIN WIRELESS DEVICES ) 337-TA-800
`WITH 3G CAPABILITIES AND )
`COMPONENTS THEREOF )
`___________________________
` Hearing Room C
`
` United States
` International Trade Commission
` 500 E Street, Southwest
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Wednesday, February 20, 2013
`
` VOLUME VI
`
` The parties met, pursuant to the notice of the
`Judge, at 9:30 a.m.
`
` BEFORE: THE HONORABLE DAVID P. SHAW
`
`
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00001
`
`
`
`Page 1909
`
`APPEARANCES:
` FOR COMPLAINANT INTERDIGITAL COMMUNICATIONS:
` RON SHULMAN, ESQ.
` Latham & Watkins LLP
` 140 Scott Drive
` Menlo Park, CA 94025
`
` MAXIMILIAN A. GRANT, ESQ.
` BERT C. REISER, ESQ.
` MICHAEL A. DAVID, ESQ.
` MATTHEW J. MOORE, ESQ.
` ELIZABETH V. JOHNSON, ESQ.
` ADAM M. GREENFIELD, ESQ.
` JONATHAN D. LINK, ESQ.
` ANDREW FOSSUM, ESQ.
` MATHEW D. AICHELE, ESQ.
` Latham & Watkins LLP
` 555 Eleventh Street, N.W., Suite 1000
` Washington, D.C. 20004-1304
`
` JULIE M. HOLLOWAY, ESQ.
` Latham & Watkins LLP.
` 505 Montgomery Street
` San Francisco, CA 94111
`
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`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00002
`
`
`
`Page 1910
`
`APPEARANCES:
` FOR COMPLAINANT INTERDIGITAL COMMUNICATIONS:
` DALE CHANG, ESQ.
` Latham & Watkins LLP
` 355 South Grand Avenue
` Los Angeles, CA 90071
`
` LARRY L. SHATZER, ESQ.
` DAVID S. STEUER, ESQ.
` MAURA L. REES, ESQ.
` MICHAEL B. LEVIN, ESQ.
` Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
` 650 Page Mill Road
` Palo Alto, CA 94304-1050
`
` LUCY YEN, ESQ.
` Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati
` 1301 Avenue of the Americas, 40th Floor
` New York, New York 10019
`
` VERONICA S. ASCARRUNZ, ESQ.
` Wilson Sonsini Godrich & Rosati
` 1700 K Street, N.W., Fifth Floor
` Washington, D.C. 20006
`
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`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00003
`
`
`
`Page 1911
`
`APPEARANCES (Continued):
` FOR RESPONDENTS HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES and FUTUREWEI
`TECHNOLOGIES:
` ROBERT T. HASLAM, ESQ.
` STANLEY YOUNG, ESQ.
` Covington & Burling LLP
` 333 Twin Dolphin Drive, Suite 700
` Redwood Shores, CA 94055-1415
`
` STURGIS M. SOBIN, ESQ.
` ALEXANDER D. CHINOY, ESQ.
` Covington & Burling LLP
` 1201 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20004
`
` CHRIS MARTINIAK, ESQ.
` SCOTT SCHRADER, ESQ.
` JEF PEARLMAN, ESQ.
` Covington & Burling LLP
` One Front Street
` San Francisco, CA 94111
`
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`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00004
`
`
`
`Page 1912
`
`APPEARANCES (Continued):
` FOR RESPONDENTS ZTE CORPORATION:
` JAY REIZISS, ESQ.
` LYLE VANDER SCHAAF, ESQ.
` CHARLES M. McMAHON, ESQ.
` CARL C. CHARNESKI, ESQ.
` Brinks Hofer Gilson & Lione
` 1850 K Street, N.W., Suite 675
` Washington, D.C. 20006
`
` CHARLES M. McMAHON, ESQ.
` MIRCEA A. TIPESCU, ESQ.
` JEREMY S. SNODGRASS, ESQ.
` RAQUEL RODRIGUEZ, ESQ.
` JEFFREY J. CATALANO, ESQ.
` DAVID H. BLUESTONE, ESQ.
` Brinks Hofer Gilson & Lione
` NBC Tower, Suite 3600
` 455 N. Cityfront Plaza Drive
` Chicago, IL 60611
`
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`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00005
`
`
`
`Page 1913
`
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`APPEARANCES (Continued):
` FOR RESPONDENTS NOKIA:
` JOHN D. HAYNES, ESQ.
` PATRICK J. FLINN, ESQ.
` MARK A. McCARTY, ESQ.
` MATTHEW D. RICHARDSON, ESQ.
` MATTHEW J. URBANAWIZ, ESQ.
` DANIEL HUYNH, ESQ.
` DAVID FRIST, ESQ.
` ROHAN KALE, ESQ.
` Alston & Bird LLP
` 1201 West Peachtree Street
` Atlanta, Georgia 30309
`
` S. BENJAMIN PLEUNE, ESQ.
` ROSS R. BARTON, ESQ.
` Alston & Bird LLP
` 101 South Tryon Street, Suite 4000
` Charlotte, NC 25980
`For ITC Staff:
` DAVID LLOYD, ESQ.
` BRIAN KOO, ESQ.
` U.S. International Trade Commission
` 500 E Street, S.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20436
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00006
`
`
`
`Page 1914
`
`APPEARANCES (Continued):
` Attorney-Advisor:
` PATRICIA CHOW, ESQ.
` Office of Administrative Law Judges
` U.S. International Trade Commission
` 500 E Street, S.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20436
`
` *** Index appears at end of transcript ***
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`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00007
`
`
`
`Page 2105
`
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` O P E N S E S S I O N
` MS. HOLLOWAY: Your Honor,
`InterDigital calls its next witness,
`Dr. Wayne Stark.
` JUDGE SHAW: The witness has already
`been sworn. You may begin the examination when
`you wish.
`Whereupon--
` WAYNE STARK
`a witness, called for examination, having previously
`been duly sworn, was examined and testified further as
`follows:
` DIRECT EXAMINATION
`BY MS. HOLLOWAY:
` Q. Good afternoon, Dr. Stark.
` A. Good afternoon.
` Q. Please look at the binder that you
`have placed before you. There should be a
`document in there that's marked CX-1526C.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you recognize 1526C?
` A. Yes, this is my rebuttal witness
`statement.
` Q. Thank you. Please turn to the last
`page of CX-1526C.
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00008
`
`
`
`Page 2106
`
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that your signature on the last
`page of CX-1526C?
` A. Yes. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Please look at the document in
`the binder that is marked CX-1526.1-C.
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is that document, CX-1526.1-C?
` A. It is the errata to my rebuttal
`witness statement.
` Q. Thank you. And does your signature
`appear on the last page of CX-1526.1-C?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Thank you, Dr. Stark.
` MS. HOLLOWAY: Your Honor, we have no
`more questions for the witness at this time.
` JUDGE SHAW: Thank you.
` CROSS-EXAMINATION
`BY MR. HASLAM:
` Q. Good afternoon, Dr. Stark.
` A. Good afternoon.
` Q. In rendering your opinions in your
`rebuttal witness statement concerning
`obviousness and anticipation, you rendered
`those opinions from the perspective of a person
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00009
`
`
`
`Page 2107
`
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`
`of ordinary skill in the art, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you're aware that the person of
`ordinary skill in the art is a hypothetical
`person?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And it's a hypothetical person who is
`presumed to know all of the relevant art as of
`the time of the invention in the
`patent-in-suit, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So the person of ordinary skill in the
`art as of the time of the invention of the '970
`would know all of the pertinent and relevant
`art?
` A. That's what we just talked about, yes.
` Q. Okay. And that's the standard you
`applied?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Now, the subscriber unit of the
`'970 can be a single unit, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And it can also be a device that's
`composed of discrete devices, correct?
` A. I believe that's true.
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00010
`
`
`
`Page 2108
`
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` Q. Right. And you actually -- that's an
`opinion and answer you gave in your opening
`report, correct, that that was one of the
`differences between claim 1 and claim 4?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So claim 1 can be made up of discrete
`devices such as a laptop computer, an ISDN or a
`PCI connection, separate transceivers, the
`protocol converter, the wiLAN switch, the wiLAN
`detector circuit, those could also all be a
`single unit or they could be discrete devices,
`correct?
` A. It has to be a subscriber unit, and so
`a subscriber unit could -- would have to have
`those elements in them -- in it, you know, to
`be relevant in claim 1 or any of the claims.
`It's a subscriber unit not a -- you know,
`multiple devices connected in some way.
` Q. Well, what's the difference between
`multiple devices connected in some way and
`discrete devices?
` A. Well, I would say -- well, I would say
`that a device that can operate separately -- if
`you have two devices that are somehow linked
`together and they can operate separately
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00011
`
`
`
`Page 2125
`
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`
` A. Sure.
` Q. Now, at your deposition, you were
`asked a series of questions about 802.11 in the
`context of Jawanda. Do you recall that
`testimony?
` A. Vaguely.
` Q. And you were asked a question, for
`example, a person of ordinary skill in 1999
`would know that the 802.11 standard WiFi LAN
`could be used as the wireless LAN adapter in
`Jawanda? That's correct, isn't it?
` A. I believe that's correct.
` Q. And as a matter of fact, you said
`there was nothing in Jawanda that would
`prohibit using an 802.11 wireless LAN adapter
`in Jawanda, correct?
` A. I believe that's true.
` Q. And you were asked whether it would
`be, in fact, obvious to use as a wireless LAN
`adapter in Jawanda an 802.11 wireless LAN
`adapter, and you said it could be. Do you
`recall that?
` A. I recall that.
` Q. And you said you really couldn't think
`of any reason why it wouldn't be, except that
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00012
`
`
`
`Page 2126
`
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`you weren't sure how widely known 802.11 was in
`1999. Do you recall that testimony?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. But a person of ordinary skill in the
`art is a hypothetical person who knows all the
`relevant art. And from that perspective, isn't
`it true that in 1999 somebody looking at
`Jawanda would know it would be obvious to use,
`as one option, an 802.11 wireless LAN adapter
`in Jawanda?
` A. Yeah, as one option you could use
`802.11.
` Q. And it would have been obvious to that
`hypothetical person of ordinary skill in the
`art?
` A. If the hypothetical person had
`knowledge of all the 802.11 protocol, yeah.
` Q. Now, Jawanda also says it could be
`used with various cellular protocols, correct?
`CDMA?
` A. Jawanda?
` Q. Jawanda.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And it also said it could be used with
`GPRS, correct?
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00013
`
`
`
`Page 2127
`
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` A. Yes.
` Q. And a person of ordinary skill in the
`art at the time would know that GPRS was a
`layered cellular protocol, correct?
` A. Yes, GPRS was layered protocol.
` Q. And it has a plurality of layers above
`the physical layer, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And it also has a plurality of
`physical layer channels available for the
`subscriber unit to transmit data on the uplink
`channel, correct?
` A. Well, in that time period, I think
`there were different class of devices in GPRS,
`some of which could use multiple physical layer
`channels and some which did not have that
`capability.
` Q. A GPRS phone that was compatible with
`the GPRS standard had the ability for a
`subscriber unit to send data to the base
`station on one uplink channel up to as many as
`five uplink channels; isn't that true?
` A. As I said, depending on the class of
`phone you have, it had different capabilities.
`Some more limited to just one channel. Others
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00014
`
`
`
`Page 2128
`
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`
`had multiple channels.
` Q. All right. And if you had multiple
`channels in the GPRS system, you could transfer
`more data faster, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And the way that the channels -- and
`the channels were actually time slots in GPRS,
`correct?
` A. The channels are time slots, are
`described in part by time slots.
` Q. And I think there's eight time slots
`per frame; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And so just for an example, to make it
`clear in the record, a subscriber unit or a
`mobile station, I think it's called in the GPRS
`standards, could request two channels and the
`base station could say you get time slots 1 and
`2 per frame, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And if the subscriber unit or mobile
`station had enough data that it needed 30
`frames, it would send that data in the first
`and second time slot of frame 1, first and
`second time slot of frame 2, up to frame 30,
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00015
`
`
`
`Page 2129
`
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`
`correct?
` A. Right.
` Q. And the way those -- some aspects, and
`I'm talking at a high level here, of the way in
`which those channels could get allocated, and
`it was allocated by the base station, correct,
`in GPRS?
` A. Correct.
` Q. The subscriber unit would determine
`how much data it had to send and would make a
`request to be able to send that much data to
`the base station, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. The base station, depending on load
`factors and other things, would say, okay, I'm
`going to give you -- back to my hypothetical,
`I'm going to give you the first two time slots
`and you've got it for 30 frames? Correct?
` A. Right.
` Q. And then the subscriber unit would
`decide to send the data or the subscriber unit
`would then use those channels, those time
`slots, to send its data, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Now, let's go to -- I'm going to ask
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00016
`
`
`
`Page 2130
`
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`
`you now about figure 4, which is the -- put
`that up there, which is sort of a -- actually,
`let's go back to figure 2. I'm sorry, figure
`3. You had it right; I didn't.
` Figure 3, again we see the laptop with
`the cell phone, and the patent describes that
`there's an application 90 which is running on
`the laptop, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And one example of -- let me step
`back. One of the things that Jawanda is
`interested in is for somebody who is on their
`computer, for example, doing some web browsing
`and downloading web pages and he's on a
`cellular network and he moves into an area
`where there's a WiFi or a wiLAN network,
`without the Jawanda invention, would lose his
`connection and have to reconnect to the WiFi
`network, correct? That's what he describes in
`the background?
` A. Well, I think he describes downloading
`a large file, being at work, downloading a
`large file, leaving before it's done and then,
`you know, initially doing it over W-LAN and
`then switching to a cellular connection.
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00017
`
`
`
`Page 2131
`
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`
` Q. And he says -- in the background of
`the invention, he says one of the problems with
`what he thought was existing at the time was
`you had to establish a new connection to the
`cellular network in that hypothetical, in the
`situation you just described? You would get
`off the WiFi network and then you would have to
`get on the cellular network and open a
`connection, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Right. And what he is saying is I
`want to be able to have a situation in which I
`can be downloading, as you say, that large file
`and I move from a WiFi network to a cellular
`network and I don't have to reestablish the
`connection as I move from one network to the
`other. That's one of the objects of his
`invention, correct?
` A. I think he wanted to be able to do it
`seamlessly.
` Q. Right.
` A. I think that's the words he used.
` Q. Which means without having to tear
`down one connection and establish another
`connection, correct?
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00018
`
`
`
`Page 2132
`
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` A. I think seamless, not having to
`reconfigure the laptop to do something and just
`that it would switch between the W-LAN and the
`W-WAN as he calls it, the cellular.
` Q. And not having to reconfigure the
`computers is also something that the '970 said
`that they were interested in trying to
`overcome, correct? Right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So they're both focused at least in
`that part on the same problem, correct?
` A. That's part of the problem, yeah.
` Q. As a matter of fact, if we look at
`RX-32, Jawanda, and if we can go to column 1,
`line 51, here at line 51 to 56 at the end of
`the background of the invention, he says one of
`the objects of his invention is to be able to
`move between networks, the cellular network and
`a WiFi or wiLAN network, without having to
`terminate an active session on the one network
`as you go to the other, correct?
` A. Well, I think what he's talking about
`is without having to terminate an application
`session. Say you're downloading a file, an FTP
`transfer or something like that, and you don't
`
`Microsoft Corporation
`
`Exhibit 1033-00019
`
`
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