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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`ORACLE CORPORATION, §
`NETAPP INC. AND HUAWEI §
`TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD. §
` §
` Petitioners, § IPR2014-01197
` § IPR2014-01207
`VS. § IPR2014-01209
` §
` §
`CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, §
`INC. §
` §
` Patent Owner. §
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. AND §
`QUANTUM CORPORATION, §
` §
` Petitioners, §
` § IPR2014-01226
`VS. § IPR2014-01544
` § IPR2014-01463
` §
`CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, §
`INC. §
` §
` Patent Owner. §
`
` CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL PORTION BOUND SEPARATE
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` BRIAN BIANCHI
` JULY 8, 2015
` CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` VOLUME 1 OF 2
`Reported By: Tamara Chapman
`Job No. 95242
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`CISCO et al. v. CROSSROADS
`CQ-1105 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 1 of 295
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` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF BRIAN BIANCHI,
`produced as a witness at the instance of the Petitioners
`and duly sworn, was taken in the above styled and numbered
`cause on Wednesday, July 8th, 2015 from 8:56 a.m. to
`5:34 p.m., before Tamara Chapman, CSR, RPR, CCR (LA) in
`and for the State of Texas, reported by computerized
`stenotype machine, at the offices of Sprinkle IP, 1301
`West 25th Street, Suite 408, Austin, Texas.
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`CQ-1105 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 2 of 295
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`FOR THE PETITIONERS ORACLE CORPORATION, NETAPP INC. AND
`HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.:
` Mr. Greg Gardella
` OBLON MCCLELLAND, MAIER & NEUSTADT
` 1940 Duke Street
` Alexandria, Virginia 22314
`
` -
` Mr. Aaron Huang
` WEIL GOTSHAL & MANGES
` 201 Redwood Shores Parkway
` Redwood Shores, California 94065
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, INC.:
` Mr. James Hall
` BLANK ROME
` 717 Texas Avenue
` Houston, Texas 77002
`
`FOR THE PETITIONERS CISCO SYSTEMS AND QUANTUM CORPORATION:
` Mr. Phillip Philbin
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` 2323 Victory Avenue
` Dallas, Texas 75219
`
` -
` Mr. Gregory Huh
` Mr. Scott Jarratt
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` 2505 North Plano Road
` Richardson, Texas 75082
`
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`ALSO PRESENT:
` Ms. Natalie J. Grace - Oblon, McClelland, Maier &
` Neustadt, LLP (ngrace@oblon.com)
` Ms. Eun Hae Park - Oracle
` Mr. Brent Kirby - The Videographer
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` * * *
` EXAMINATION INDEX
`
` Page
` BY MR. PHILBIN ............................ 9
` BY MR. GARDELLA............................ 155
`
` * * *
` INDEX OF NEW EXHIBITS
` Page
` Exhibit 1102............................... 122
` Crossroads Systems, Inc. IPO
` (No Bates - 6 pages)
` Exhibit 1103............................... 152
` Crossroad Systems, Inc. (CRDS) IPO
` (No Bates - 6 pages)
` Exhibit 1204............................... 205
` Correspondence dated 12/31/1997 from
` William N. Hulsey III to Dale Quisenberry
` Re: Patent Application Entitled "Storage
` Router and Method for Providing Virtual
` Load Storage" with attachments
` (No Bates - 29 pages)
`
` * * *
` INDEX OF DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO
` U.S. Patent 6,425,035 ..................... 32
` U.S. Patent 7,051,147 ..................... 34
` U.S. Patent 7,934,041...................... 35
`
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` * * *
` INDEX OF PREVIOUS EXHIBITS
` Exhibit 1100............................... 16
` Crossroads Management information
` from Website
` (no Bates - 3 pages)
` Exhibit 1101............................... 35
` Ex Parte Reexamination Certificate
` for U.S. Patent No. 5,941,972, issued
` 5/25/06, along with a copy of the '972
` patent
` (No Bates - 13 pages)
` Exhibit 2043............................... 20
` Declaration of Brian Bianchi
` regarding IPR2014-01197
` (no Bates - 5 pages)
` Exhibit 2044............................... 22
` Exhibit A to Declaration of Brian
` Bianchi
` (no Bates - 5 pages)
` Exhibit 2045............................... 24
` Exhibit B to Declaration of Brian
` Bianchi
` (no Bates - 5 pages)
` Exhibit 2046............................... 24
` Data sheet regarding Near Edge
` routers and bridges
` (CRDS 504194 - CRDS 506659)
` Exhibit 2303............................... 178
` Correspondence dated 7/11/1997 from
` Anthony Peterman to Geoffrey Hoese Re:
` U.S. Patent Application Entitled Storage
` Router and Method for Providing Virtual
` Local Storage (with attachments)
` (No Bates - 33 pages)
`
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`Page 7
` Exhibit 2308............................... 189
` Information regarding Verrazano
` Software Development updated 9/10/1996
` (CRDS40925 - CRDS 40958)
`
` Exhibit 2323............................... 181
` Correspondence dated 12/31/1997 from
` William Hulsey to Dale Quisenberry Re:
` U.S. Patent Application Entitled Storage
` Router and Method for Providing Virtual
` Local Storage (with attachments)
` (No Bates - 33 pages)
`
` Exhibit 2324............................... 174
` Declaration of Brian Bianchi for
` Patent No. 7,051,147
` (No Bates - 7 pages)
` NOTE: Bound separate with confidential
` testimony.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Page 8
`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the videotaped
`oral deposition of Brian Bianchi which has been noticed in
`the matter of Cisco Systems, Inc., and Quantum Corporation
`versus Crossroads System, Inc., Case No. IPR2014-01226 and
`Case No. IPR2014-01544 and Case No. IPR2014-01463. It has
`also been noticed in the matter of Oracle Corporation,
`NetApp, Inc., versus Huawei Technologies Company, Ltd.,
`versus Crossroads System, Inc., Case No. IPR2014-01197 and
`Case No. IPR2014-01207 and Case No. IPR2014-01209.
` Today's date, July 8th, 2015. The
`approximate time is 8:56 a.m. We're recording and on the
`record.
` If counsel would now introduce themselves
`for the record.
` MR. PHILBIN: Phillip Philbin of Haynes and
`Boone on behalf of Cisco Systems, Inc., and Quantum
`Corporation. With me I have Gregory Huh and Scott
`Jarratt.
` MR. HALL: James Hall from Blank Rome on
`behalf of patent owner Crossroads Systems, Inc.
` MR. GARDELLA: And Greg Gardella of Oblon on
`behalf of Oracle, NetApp, and Huawei. With me is Natalie
`Grace, also of Oblon; Eun Hae Park of Oracle; and Aaron
`Huang of Weil Gotshal.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Page 8 of 295
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`Page 9
`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` BRIAN BIANCHI,
`having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. PHILBIN:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Bianchi. As I just introduced
`myself, I'm Phillip Philbin of Haynes and Boone here on
`behalf of the petitioners, Cisco Systems and Quantum. Do
`you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. We've never met be- -- prior to meeting in the
`hall just before this deposition. Right?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Best I can recall, twice.
` Q. In what years?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. What type of cases were you deposed in?
` A. They were patent litigation cases. And there may
`have been one other for contract dispute.
` Q. Were you a fact or expert witness in the patent
`litigation case?
` A. I don't recall.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
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`Page 9 of 295
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` Q. What was the subject matter of your testimony in
`the patent litigation case?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Infringement, validity, damages, or something
`else?
` A. It would have either been infringement or
`validity. I don't recall.
` Q. And in the patent litigation case, did you
`testify on behalf of Crossroads?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. When I say "Crossroads," what legal entity do you
`understand that to mean?
` A. I'm not sure what your question means.
` Q. Who do you work for?
` A. Crossroads Systems.
` Q. Crossroads Systems, Inc.?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you ever heard of a company called
`CrossWorlds?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you ever heard of a company called
`CrossWorlds Software?
` A. No.
` Q. Can we agree, if I refer to "Crossroads," that
`
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`Page 10 of 295
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`means Crossroads Systems, Inc., your employer?
` A. That would be fine.
` Q. And speaking of agreements, if -- if I ask you a
`question today you don't understand, will you agree to let
`me know?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If you need to take a break today for any reason,
`will you agree to let me know?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you on any medication that would inhibit your
`ability to recall facts and circumstances?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you on any medication today that would
`inhibit your ability to testify truthfully today?
` A. No.
` Q. Is there any reason, medical or otherwise, that
`your deposition should not proceed today?
` A. No.
` Q. What did you do to prepare for your deposition?
` A. I met with Mr. Hall for a couple of hours on
`Monday.
` Q. Anything else?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review any documents in preparation for
`
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`your deposition?
` A. As part of that meeting, yes.
` Q. Did you review any documents that are not cited
`in your declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. What is your current position at Crossroads?
` A. Chief operating officer.
` Q. How long have you been the chief operating
`officer at Crossroads?
` A. I -- best I recall, it was in around 2005.
` Q. Prior to being chief operating officer at
`Crossroads, what was your position?
` A. I've had several.
` Q. What was the position immediately before chief
`operating officer?
` A. I don't know that I recall.
` Q. Okay. When did you join Crossroads?
` A. 1998.
` Q. What was your position when you joined
`Crossroads?
` A. Something to the effect of OEM manager.
` Q. What position did you have after being the OEM
`manager at Crossroads?
` A. I don't recall what was immediately after.
`
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`
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`Page 12 of 295
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` Q. Between the time you were the OEM manager in 1998
`and you became the chief operating officer in 2005, can
`you just list the various positions that you held?
` A. Sure. I was -- I believe I was the director of
`the LAN/WAN product, and I believe I was director of
`software engineering. And that's what I can recall.
` Q. When were you the director of the LAN/WAN
`product?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. When were you the director of software
`engineering?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Would it be fair to say that you were the
`director of LAN/WAN product sometime between 1998 and
`2005?
` A. That's fair.
` Q. Is it also fair to say you were the director of
`software engineering sometime between 1998 and 2005?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And do you know which one of those came first?
` A. Best I recall, the LAN/WAN engineering came
`first.
` Q. Do you recall approximately how long you held
`each position?
`
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`Page 13 of 295
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` A. No, I do not.
` Q. Would you consider each of your position changes
`at Crossroads a promotion?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What are your current duties as chief operating
`officer at Crossroads?
` A. I manage several different teams in the
`organization, including technical support, the engineering
`team, operations.
` Q. Are you in charge of product development?
` A. What do you mean by "in charge of"?
` Q. Do you oversee the development of all of
`Crossroads' products?
` A. I have responsibility for that, yes.
` Q. Okay. How long have you had responsibility for
`product development at Crossroads?
` A. Can you be more specific?
` Q. Which part do you need more specificity on?
` A. We've had several products, and I don't know what
`you mean by "responsible." What --
` Q. Is there anyone else that's responsible for
`product development at Crossroads other than you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who?
`
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` A. In what aspect?
` Q. Any aspect. I'm trying to figure out --
` A. There are -- there are engineers. There are
`managers. There are lots of people that do product
`development.
` Q. Okay. Fair enough.
` A. That's a very broad question.
` Q. Let's talk about at the officer level. Are there
`other officers that are charged with managing product
`development other than you?
` A. No.
` Q. And so at the officer level, you're in charge of
`all product development. Is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you ever actually designed a product at
`Crossroads?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Well, let me -- let me be more
`specific. Have you ever designed a computer data storage
`product at Crossroads?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Can you give me your -- what do you mean by
`"design"? That's a broad question.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Okay. You don't understand
`
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`B. BIANCHI-7/8/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`what "designing a product" is?
` A. I do. But I don't think there's any individual
`that's designed a whole product at our company.
` Q. Okay. So have you participated in the design
`team for a computer data storage product at Crossroads?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And how many years of experience do you have in
`designing computer data storage products?
` A. Probably 20-plus years.
` Q. Okay. And in that 20-plus years, are you
`including both your experience at Crossroads as well as
`your experience prior to coming to Crossroads?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. Okay. And how many years of experience do you
`have in designing computer networks?
` A. What kind of computer networks are you referring
`to?
` Q. Those that use computer data storage products
`that you just testified you have experience designing.
` A. Data networks or --
` Q. Sure. Data networks.
` A. Again, probably 20-plus years.
` Q. I'd like for you to take a look at Exhibit 1100
`that was introduced yesterday. I'd specifically direct
`
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`your attention to the section of the management write-up
`on the website with your name and picture next to it. Do
`you see that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Is that a fair and accurate description of your
`duties and responsibilities as the chief operating officer
`at Crossroads today?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. (Reviewing document.)
` Yes.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Have you ever been charged with
`being the records custodian at Crossroads?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. I'm not familiar with that term.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Okay. Are you responsible for
`storing and archiving documents at Crossroads?
` MR. HALL: Same objection.
` A. At times.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) And during what time?
` A. Since I've been at Crossroads.
` Q. Okay. So you've been -- throughout your career
`at Crossroads, you've been in charge of storing and
`maintaining records at Crossroads. Is that correct?
` MR. HALL: Objection; misstates prior
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`testimony.
` A. I don't think that's what I said.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Okay. How could -- how was my
`question wrong?
` A. You said I was responsible. That was not the
`original question.
` Q. Okay. What's your role in data storage and
`maintaining records at Crossroads?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. It depends.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) It depends on what?
` A. What records and what time frame.
` Q. Okay. Have you ever been responsible for storing
`product development records at Crossroads?
` A. At times on some records, yes.
` Q. During what time?
` A. Throughout my career.
` Q. For what records?
` A. It's varying.
` Q. So some products you're responsible for and some
`products you're not?
` A. That's accurate.
` Q. What products are you responsible for?
` A. It's varied over time.
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` Q. Would you be able to testify today which products
`you've been responsible for maintaining records on and
`which ones you have not?
` A. I don't believe it's as black as white as that,
`but I can...
` Q. Were you finished?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Prior to joining Crossroads, you worked at
`Hewlett-Packard. Is that correct?
` A. Yes, that's correct.
` Q. And in your work at Hewlett-Packard, you worked
`in the design of computer data storage and networks. Is
`that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And prior to that, you worked at Convex Computer
`Corporation. Is that right?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And at Convex Computer Corporation, you had
`experience with the design of computer data storage and
`networks. Is that correct?
` A. At times, yes, that's correct.
` Q. You have a bachelor of science degree in computer
`science from the University of Texas at Austin. Is that
`correct?
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` A. No, that's not correct.
` Q. What's your degree in?
` A. It's a bachelor of arts in computer science.
` Q. My apologies.
` So you have a bachelor of arts in computer
`science from the University of Texas at Austin. Is that
`correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. When did you obtain that degree?
` A. 1988.
` Q. Do you have any further formal education after
`you received the bachelor of arts in computer science from
`the University of Texas at Austin?
` A. No, I do not.
` Q. You prepared a declaration in this case. Is that
`correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. I believe you have in front of you Crossroads
`Exhibit 2043, which is your declaration. Is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Why did you prepare the declaration of Brian
`Bianchi, Crossroads Exhibit 2043?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. It was requested from our counsel.
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` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) What was your understanding of
`what you were trying to establish when you prepared your
`declaration?
` Well, strike that. Let me back up.
` Did you prepare your declaration?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Yes.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Did you sign your declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when I refer to "your declaration," do you
`understand I'm referring to Crossroads Exhibit 243?
` A. Yes.
` MR. HALL: 2043.
` MR. PHILBIN: 2043. 2043. Thank you.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Let me make sure we're clear.
`When I refer to "your declaration," do you understand I'm
`referring to Crossroads Exhibit 2043, which was submitted
`in six separate IPR proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You don't have any other declarations in any --
`any of these proceedings. Right? So when I refer to it,
`there's only one. Right?
` MR. HALL: No. He has two other
`declarations.
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` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Oh. My apologies.
` All right. I -- for purposes of my questions,
`I'm asking you about your declaration, Crossroads
`Exhibit 2043. Can we have that understanding?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Thank you.
` All right. Did you prepare Crossroads Exhibit
`2043?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you sign Crossroads Exhibit 2043?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you sign Crossroads Exhibit 2043 on or about
`April 20th, 2015?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And when you signed Crossroads Exhibit 2043, you
`were adopting all of the language in Exhibit 2043 as
`yours. Correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And did you prepare Exhibit -- Crossroads Exhibit
`2044, which I believe you have in front of you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is Crossroads Exhibit 2044 accurate as of
`today?
` A. Yes.
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` Q. In your review of these documents in preparation
`for your deposition, did you notice any errors in
`Crossroads Exhibit 2043?
` I'm back to your declaration. I'm going to come
`back to that one.
` A. Oh, we're going back to the declaration?
` Q. Yeah. Any errors in the declaration that you've
`noticed in preparation for your deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. Any errors that you noticed in preparation for
`your deposition in Crossroads Exhibit 2044, Exhibit A to
`your declaration?
` A. Other than an error in the header, no.
` Q. What's the error in the header?
` A. On Page 2 of 5. Left side towards the bottom.
`It says -- it should say "Voyager," "No Access Controls."
`Instead, it omits the "V-O."
` Q. Okay.
` A. And likewise on Page 3.
` Q. Other than the two instances of the letters V and
`O missing, are there any other errors in Crossroads
`Exhibit 2044?
` A. Not that I'm aware of.
` Q. And would you turn to Crossroads Exhibit 2045,
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`which is Exhibit B to your declaration.
` Did you prepare Exhibit B?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. Are there any errors in Exhibit B that you
`noticed in prepara- -- in preparing for your deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. When did you prepare Exhibit B, Crossroads
`Exhibit 2045?
` A. It would have been approximately the same time as
`the declaration.
` Q. What data did you use to prepare Exhibit B to
`your declaration, Crossroads Exhibit 2045?
` A. I used the data from Exhibit 2044.
` Q. Is this just an Excel graph generated out of the
`information in Exhibit 2044?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Would you turn to Crossroads Exhibit 2046,
`Exhibit C to your declaration.
` What is Exhibit C?
` A. It includes several pieces of information,
`including a data sheet for our NearEdge routers and
`bridges and basically in a couple of different formats.
` Q. So is Exhibit C multiple documents?
` A. Yes, it is.
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` Q. Okay. In Exhibit C, where does the first
`document end?
` MR. HALL: Counsel, do you have a -- a hard
`copy of that --
` MR. PHILBIN: Sure.
` MR. HALL: -- that I can borrow?
` MR. PHILBIN: You can even have it.
` MR. HALL: Thank you.
` A. On Page 3 of 10.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) So the first document within
`Exhibit C to your declaration is Bates-labeled CRDS 504194
`and 195. Is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And the second document starts on Page CRDS
`504202. Is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. And where does it end?
` A. Label CRDS 504206.
` Q. Okay. And the third document in Exhibit C begins
`on CRDS 506658?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And continues to 659. Is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Okay. Let's take the first document within
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`Exhibit C. And by that I'm referring to CRDS 504194
`through 195.
` When was that document prepared?
` A. I -- let's see. The copyright date was 2006. So
`based on that, I believe it was around 2006.
` Q. Do you have any personal knowledge of when the
`first document in Exhibit C was prepared?
` A. Other than what is in the document, no.
` Q. Well, I can read the copyright date, and I have
`no personal knowledge of when this document was prepared.
`So I understand there's a copyright date on there. I'm
`asking you, other than the copyright date, do you have any
`personal knowledge of when the first document in Exhibit C
`was prepared?
` A. I don't recall any more than that.
` Q. Okay. Who prepared the first document in
`Exhibit C?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Where did the information that's contained in the
`first document in Exhibit C come from?
` A. It came from various places.
` Q. Where?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Can you name one place?
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` A. It came from previous data sheets.
` Q. Which previous data sheets?
` A. I don't recall. It's standard that you would
`take the previous generation and -- and take some of the
`same information and use it for the next generation
`product.
` Q. And for purposes of this, I'm not asking about a
`standard operating procedure. I'm specifically asking
`about this document and where the information in this
`document came from. Do you know?
` A. Not specifics, no.
` Q. Who at Crossroads verified the accuracy of the
`first document in Exhibit C to your declaration?
` A. I don't recall who was here at that point in time
`in the company, so I don't know how to answer that
`question.
` Q. Can you name a single person at Crossroads that
`would verify the accuracy of the information contained in
`the first document in Exhibit C to your declaration?
` A. No, I cannot.
` Q. Let's move to the second document in Exhibit C,
`which is Bates-labeled CRDS 504202 through 504206.
` Who prepared the second document?
` A. I don't recall.
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` Q. Did you know at some point who prepared it?
` A. I did.
` Q. When did you know?
` A. Around the time the document was produced.
` Q. When was the second document in Exhibit C
`prepared?
` A. It would have been summer time frames, but I
`don't recall any more than that.
` Q. Do you have personal knowledge of when the second
`document in Exhibit C was prepared?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` MR. PHILBIN: What's your objection?
` MR. HALL: I believe he said that he did
`know when it was prepared. He just couldn't be very
`specific.
` MR. PHILBIN: Okay.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Do you have personal knowledge
`of when the second document in Exhibit C was prepared?
` A. Other than referencing the previous document, no,
`I don't.
` Q. Other than referencing the copyright date on the
`first document?
` A. Correct.
` Q. So now you're saying that the copyright date on
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`the first document indicates when the second document was
`prepared. Is that correct?
` MR. HALL: Objection; misstates prior
`testimony.
` A. That is likely when it was created, yes.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) And that's the best evidence
`you have of when the second document in Exhibit C was
`prepared. Is that correct?
` MR. HALL: Objection; calls for a legal
`conclusion.
` A. That I have with me today, yes.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Is it fair to say that you have
`no personal knowledge of when the second document in
`Exhibit C was prepared?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Other than it would have been created when these
`products were released, I don't