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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. AND §
`QUANTUM CORPORATION, §
`TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD. §
` §
` Petitioners, §
` § IPR2014-01226
`VS. § IPR2014-01544
` § IPR2014-01463
` §
`CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, §
`INC. §
` §
` Patent Owner. §
`
` *** AND ***
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`ORACLE CORPORATION, §
`NETAPP INC. AND HUAWEI §
`TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD. §
` §
` Petitioners, § IPR2014-01197
` § IPR2014-01207
`VS. § IPR2014-01209
` §
` §
`CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, §
`INC. §
` §
` Patent Owner. §
`
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` JENNIFER RAY CRANE
` JULY 7, 2015
` CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` Reported By: Tamara Chapman
` Job No: 95241
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`CISCO et al. v. CROSSROADS
`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 1 of 212
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`Page 2
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JENNIFER RAY CRANE,
`produced as a witness at the instance of the Petitioners
`and duly sworn, was taken in the above styled and numbered
`cause on Tuesday, July 7th, 2015 from 9:09 a.m. to
`3:59 p.m., before Tamara Chapman, CSR, RPR, CCR (LA) in
`and for the State of Texas, reported by computerized
`stenotype machine, at the offices of Sprinkle IP, 1301
`West 25th Street, Suite 408, Austin, Texas.
`
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`
`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 2 of 212
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`
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`Page 3
`
`FOR THE PETITIONERS ORACLE CORPORATION, NETAPP INC. AND
`HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.:
` Mr. Greg Gardella
` OBLON MCCLELLAND MAIER & NEUSTADT
` 1940 Duke Street
` Alexandria, VA 22314
`
` -
` Mr. Aaron Huang
` WEIL GOTSHAL & MANGES
` 201 Redwood Shores Parkway
` Redwood Shores, CA 94065
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, INC.:
` Mr. James Hall
` BLANK ROME
` 700 Louisiana
` Houston, TX 77002
`
`FOR THE PETITIONERS CISCO SYSTEMS AND QUANTUM CORPORATION:
` Mr. Phillip Philbin
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` 2323 Victory Avenue
` Dallas, TX 75219
`
` -
` Mr. Gregory Huh
` Mr. Scott Jarratt
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` 2505 North Plano Road
` Richardson, TX 75082
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
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`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 3 of 212
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`
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Ms. Natalie J. Grace Oblon, McClelland, Maier &
` Neustadt, LLP (ngrace@oblon.com)
` Ms. Eun Hae Park - Oracle
` Mr. Brent Kirby - The Videographer
`
`Page 4
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`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 4 of 212
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`
`
`Page 5
`
` * * *
` EXAMINATION INDEX
`
` Page
` EXAMINATION BY MR. PHILBIN................. 7
` EXAMINATION BY MR. GARDELLA................ 156
` EXAMINATION BY MR. HALL.................... 187
` EXAMINATION BY MR. PHILBIN................. 199
`
` * * *
` INDEX OF NEW EXHIBITS
`
` Page
` Exhibit 1100............................... 54
` Crossroads Management information
` from Website
` (no Bates - 3 pages)
` Exhibit 1101............................... 137
` Ex Parte Reexamination Certificate
` for U.S. Patent No. 5,941,972, issued
` 5/25/06, along with a copy of the '972
` patent
` (No Bates - 13 pages)
` Exhibit 1202............................... 169
` SEC Form 10-K for the year ended
` October 31, 2014 for Crossroads Systems,
` Inc.
` (No Bates - 152 pages)
` Exhibit 1203............................... 207
` Crossroads Exhibit 2040 marked up by
` Ms. Crane during the deposition.
` Original exhibit description: Exhibit A
` to Declaration of Jennifer Ray Crane
` (no Bates - 5 pages)
`
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`Page 5 of 212
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`Page 6
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` * * *
` DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO
` Page
` U.S. Patent No. 6,425,035 ................. 40
` U.S. Patent No. 7,934,041 ................. 44
` U.S. Patent No. 7,051,147 ................. 45
` Patent License Agreement between .......... 100
` Crossroads Systems, Inc. and LSI
` Corporation
`
` * * *
` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
`
` Exhibit 2039............................... 16
` Declaration of Jennifer Ray Crane
` (no Bates - 4 pages)
` Exhibit 2040............................... 24
` Exhibit A to Declaration of Jennifer
` Ray Crane
` (no Bates - 5 pages)
` NOTE: This document was re-marked as
` Exhibit 1203
` Exhibit 2041............................... 76
` Appendix B To Declaration of Jennifer
` Ray Crane - Crossroads Non-Confidential
` License Agreements.
` (No Bates - 58 pages)
` Exhibit 2051............................... 160
` Appendix B to Ms. Crane's Declaration
` in the Oracle-NetApp-Huawei proceedings
` (Not provided as a separate exhibit)
` Exhibit 2052............................... 162
` Appendix C to Ms. Crane's Declaration
` (Parts 1, 2, 3 and 4 of 4)
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 6 of 212
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`Page 7
` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the videotaped
`oral deposition of Jennifer Crane, which has been noticed
`in the matter of Cisco Systems, Inc. and Quantum
`Corporation versus Crossroads Systems, Inc. Case
`No. IPR2014-01226 and Case No. IPR2014-01544 and Case
`No. IPR2014-01463. It has also been noticed in the matter
`of Oracle Corporation, NetApp, Inc., and Huawei
`Technologies Company, Ltd. versus Crossroads Systems, Inc.
`Case No. IPR2014-01197 and Case No. IPR2014-01207 and Case
`No. IPR2014-2 -- -01209.
` Today's date July 7th, 2015. The
`approximate time is 9:09 a.m. We're recording and on the
`record.
` (Discussion off the written record.)
` JENNIFER RAY CRANE,
`having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. PHILBIN:
` Q. Good morning, Ms. Crane. My name is Phillip
`Philbin. I'm with the law firm of Haynes and Boone, and I
`represent Cisco Systems, Inc. and Quantum Corporation in
`three of the six IPRs that were just identified. Do you
`understand that?
` A. Yes.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 7 of 212
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`Page 8
` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` MR. HALL: Phil, can we go ahead and do
`appearances?
` MR. PHILBIN: Oh, sure. Yeah.
` MR. HUH: This is Gregory Huh. I'm on the
`I'm here on behalf of Cisco Systems, Inc., and Quantum
`Corporation, Petitioners.
` MR. JARRATT: Scott Jarratt with Haynes and
`Boone, also representing Petitioners Cisco Systems and
`Quantum Corporation.
` MR. HALL: James Hall with Blank Rome
`representing the patent owner, Crossroads Systems.
` MR. GARDELLA: Greg Gardella, the Oblon
`firm, representing Oracle, NetApp and Huawei.
` MS. GRACE: Natalie Grace, the Oblon firm,
`representing Oracle, NetApp and Huawei.
` MR. HUANG: Aaron Huang from Weil, Gotshal &
`Manges, LP on behalf of respondent -- on behalf of Oracle
`Corporation.
` MS. PARK: Eun Hae Park, Oracle Corporation.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) All right. Ms. Crane, do you
`understand that the testimony you're giving today is
`testimony in the six different IPR proceedings that were
`identified by the videographer at the beginning of your
`deposition?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 8 of 212
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` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is your testimony different for any of the
`six IPRs, or can we take one set of questions and use it
`as the same?
` A. It should be the same.
` Q. Okay. Have you ever been deposed before?
` A. Once before.
` Q. When was your prior deposition?
` A. 2008.
` Q. And in what context were you deposed in 2008?
` A. It was a earnout mediation.
` Q. Were you deposed as a corporate witness or in
`your individual capacity?
` A. A corporate witness.
` Q. You were a witness in 2008 on behalf of
`Crossroads Corporation. Is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If I ask you a question today you don't
`understand, will you agree to let me know?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If you need to take a break today for any reason,
`will you agree to let me know?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you on any medication today that would impact
`
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`
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`Page 9 of 212
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` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`your ability to recall facts and circumstances?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you on any medication today that would impact
`your ability to tell the truth?
` A. No.
` Q. Is there any other reason why your deposition
`should not go forward today, medical or otherwise?
` A. No.
` Q. What have you done to prepare for your
`deposition?
` A. I've met with Mr. Hall and then Ms. Fore at
`Sprinkle Law.
` Q. For how long?
` A. An hour probably.
` Q. Have you done anything else to prepare for your
`deposition?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Have you reviewed any documents to prepare for
`your deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review your declaration to prepare for
`your deposition?
` A. Yes, I did review that.
` Q. So you did review documents?
`
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`
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`Page 10 of 212
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`Page 11
` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` A. I did look at the deposition.
` Q. You looked at the deposition?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Which deposition did you look at?
` A. This one from -- dated April 16th.
` Q. Now, did you -- did you intend to say
`"declaration" or "deposition"?
` A. Oh, the declaration.
` Q. Okay.
` A. I didn't say anything. But, yes, I'm saying the
`declaration.
` Q. Okay. So the document that you reviewed in
`preparation for your deposition was your declaration in --
` A. Yes.
` Q. -- these cases. Is that correct?
` A. Yes, that's correct.
` Q. And for the ease of the court reporter, the court
`reporter can only take one of us talking at -- down --
`strike that.
` The court reporter can only record one of our
`voices at a time. Do you understand that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So in an effort to do that, if you could let me
`finish my question and I'll endeavor you the same courtesy
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide - 877-702-9580
`
`CQ-1104 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 11 of 212
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`to let you finish your answer before moving on. Is that
`acceptable?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you review any documents other than your
`declaration in preparation for your deposition today?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review any of the settlement agreements
`in preparation for your deposition today?
` A. No. Let me understand the question. I looked at
`them before, but I did not review them for this
`deposition.
` Q. Got it. And when you say "before," are you
`referring to when you prepared your declaration
`originally?
` A. Now, when I -- when I first -- when we signed
`them or when we filed them is when I looked at them.
` Q. Okay. What's your position at Crossroads?
` A. I'm currently the chief financial officer.
` Q. And how long have you been the chief financial
`officer?
` A. Since November 2008.
` Q. Are you currently in charge of legal at
`Crossroads?
` A. When you say "in charge of," I'm not in charge
`
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`
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`Page 12 of 212
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`Page 13
` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
`of. I -- we have outside counsel that we rely on.
` Q. Would it be accurate to describe you as leading
`the company's legal operations?
` A. As the liaison with legal, yes.
` Q. So would it be accurate to describe you as
`leading the company's legal operations?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` You can answer.
` THE WITNESS: Oh, okay.
` A. I would not say I -- I would say that I'm the --
`liaison, not leading.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Would it be a misrepresentation
`to say that you lead the company's legal operations?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` And -- and, Counsel, this is not in her
`declaration. I don't know where -- where you're getting
`this from. But this is something we discussed beforehand,
`is limiting this to the scope of the declaration and the
`scope of direct.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) You can answer.
` A. I would not say "leading," I would say the
`liaison.
` Q. So would you say to describe you as leading the
`company's legal operations would be inaccurate?
`
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`
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`Page 13 of 212
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`Page 14
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` A. It's not accurate. I'm -- for Crossroads, I am
`the representative who is the liaison as far as legal.
` Q. In your role as an officer of Crossroads, do you
`ever review the management description for you that's
`released to the public on Crossroads' website?
` A. I have.
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) You have seen it?
` A. I've seen it, yes.
` Q. And are you aware that it describes you as
`leading the company's legal operations?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` A. Yes.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) And you've never bothered to
`change that, have you?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` A. It's -- it's not a misrepresentation. I'm just
`saying that we rely on outside legal counsel.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Are you the chief legal officer
`within the company?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Who is?
` A. We don't have one.
` Q. When did you join Crossroads?
`
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`
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`Page 14 of 212
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`Page 15
` J. CRANE-7/9/2015-CONFIDENTIAL PROTECTIVE ORDER MATERIAL
` A. April 2003.
` Q. What was your position in April 2003?
` A. I came on as the financial controller. I was
`focused on Sarbanes-Oxley requirements.
` Q. And how long were you the -- how long were you
`the financial controller at Crossroads?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Did you change positions from April 2003 to
`November 2008?
` A. Yes. I was director of finance in between.
` Q. When were you the director of finance?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. Can you give me a year?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Can you give me --
` A. I don't recall --
` Q. Okay.
` A. -- in between there.
` Q. So you were the director of finance sometime
`between 2003 and 2008?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you can't be any more specific than that?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. No.
`
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`Page 15 of 212
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` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Okay. When did you assume
`leadership of the company's legal operations?
` A. I would say the chief financial officer has
`always assumed that role.
` Q. So would that be in November of 2008?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you prepare a declaration in this case?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What's your understanding of why you prepared the
`declaration?
` A. To, I guess, assist with this IPR process.
` Q. Assist in what way?
` A. Stating what I know.
` Q. Today when you took the oath, you swore to tell
`the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Did
`you use that same standard in preparing your declaration?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Let me hand you what's been marked previously as
`Crossroads Exhibit 2039, which is a four-page document
`entitled "Declaration of Jennifer Ray Crane." Do you see
`that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And in preparing -- did you prepare -- strike
`that.
`
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` Did you prepare Crossroads Exhibit 2039?
` A. I -- no, sir.
` Q. Who prepared Crossroads Exhibit 2039?
` A. Our legal counsel did.
` Q. Did you review Crossroads Exhibit 2039?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you sign Crossroads Exhibit 2039?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you make any changes to Crossroads
`Exhibit 2039 before you signed it?
` A. Not that I recall.
` Q. And at the time that you signed Crossroads
`Exhibit 2039, you thought it was the truth, the whole
`truth and nothing but the truth. Correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Would you look at Page 2 of Crossroads
`Exhibit 2039, please. Do you see in the first paragraph
`the last sentence, it says, "My knowledge to the facts
`stated here is based on my employment with Crossroads and
`my responsibilities as CFO"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And your employment with Crossroads began in
`2003. Correct?
` A. Correct.
`
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` Q. And your responsibilities as CFO began in
`November 2008. Correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And those two bodies of information, your
`employment since 2003 and your responsibilities as CFO
`since 2008, formed the knowledge base which you used to
`prepare Crossroads Exhibit 2039. Correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And if you had done any other investigation or
`had any other knowledge that was used in putting together
`Crossroads Exhibit 2039, you would have listed that in the
`exhibit, wouldn't you?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know if I
`understand the question.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Was there any other knowledge
`that you used to prepare Crossroads Exhibit 2039 other
`than the facts based on your employment since April 2003
`and your responsibilities as chief financial officer since
`November 2008?
` A. No.
` Q. So would it be fair to say that you had no
`knowledge of facts and circumstances at Crossroads prior
`to April of 2003?
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` A. That's correct.
` Q. And you did no investigation as to what happened
`at Crossroads prior to April of 2003, did you?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. That's correct.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) That is or is not correct?
` A. That is. I did not do any other investigation.
` Q. And you didn't talk to anyone about what happened
`prior to April of 2003 in putting together your
`declaration, did you?
` A. No.
` Q. Would you look in Paragraph 2 of Crossroads
`Exhibit 2039. Do you see where you use the term "'972
`patent family"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What is the '972 patent family?
` A. That is a way that we describe a family of
`patents for several patents that we have.
` Q. What patents are included in your definition of
`"the '972 patent family"?
` A. I cannot list those. I don't know.
` Q. Did you know at the time you prepared your
`declaration in these cases what constituted the '972
`patent family?
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` A. I -- I don't know the numbers, no.
` Q. Have you ever known the numbers?
` A. No. I just refer to them as "the '972 patent
`family."
` Q. How many patents are included in the '972 patent
`family?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Do you have an estimation?
` A. I have an estimation.
` Q. Approximately how many patents --
` A. Ten.
` Q. -- to your knowledge, are included in the '972
`patent family?
` A. Approximately ten.
` Q. Is there a schedule at Crossroads of what ten
`patents are included in the '972 patent family?
` A. There is a schedule, yes.
` Q. Is that attached to your declaration anywhere?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you refer to that schedule in preparing your
`declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Are there any pending patent applications in your
`definition of "the '972 patent family"?
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` A. I don't know.
` Q. At the time you signed your declaration, did you
`intend for any pending patent applications to be included
`in your definition of "the '972 patent family"?
` A. I don't know. I did not have an intention.
` Q. Does your definition of "the '972 patent family"
`include any foreign patents?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Does your definition of "the '972 patent family"
`include any continuation patents?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Does your definition of "the '972 patent family"
`include any divisional patents?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Does your definition of "the '972 patent family"
`include any provisional patents?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. Other than approximately ten U.S. patents, is
`there any other detail you can add to your definition of
`"the '972 patent family" as used in Paragraph 2 of
`Crossroads Exhibit 2039?
` A. No.
` Q. When was the first patent issued in your
`definition of "the '972 patent family" as used in your
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`declaration?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. When was the last patent issued in your
`definition of "the '972 patent family" as used in your
`declaration?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. At the time you signed your declaration, did you
`ask any questions about what was included in the '972
`patent family?
` A. No.
` Q. What is the same -- strike that.
` What is "their ultimate parent the same
`application" mean in -- as you used that language in
`Paragraph 2 of your declaration?
` A. It -- what it means is that some of the patents
`that are included under that patent number, 5,941,972.
` Q. How many patents are included under the patent
`number 5,941,972?
` MR. HALL: Objection; asked and answered.
` A. I don't -- I don't know the exact number. I
`believe it's approximately ten.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Now, I changed the question,
`and I want to make sure you understand the difference.
` A. Oh, okay.
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` Q. The first time I asked you about your definition
`of "the '972 patent family," and then when I asked you
`about your language "ultimate parent the same
`application," you answered as specifically a patent
`number. And the second time I asked you, how many patents
`are included under U.S. Patent 5,941,972. Not the family,
`just that patent number.
` A. Okay. That's just one.
` Q. Is that one patent?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Then what's your understanding of how a
`patent is related to the '972 patent as the ultimate
`parent?
` A. I don't know if I understand the question.
` Q. Okay.
` A. If you can try to repeat it.
` Q. Let's try it a different way.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Do you see in your declaration where you used the
`term "ultimate parent"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What does that term mean to you when you signed
`your declaration under oath?
` A. The patent number that is referenced in here ends
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`in the '972, and so we call that the parent to this group
`of '972 patents for the patent family.
` Q. Okay. There's an Exhibit A to your declaration.
`Correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. Did you prepare Exhibit A?
` A. I prepared the numbers that are included on
`Exhibit A, yes. Myself or my team.
` Q. When you say "numbers," you're talking about
`every number in the exhibit?
` A. Not including the -- I can't remember what
`they're referred to. But the litigation and the -- the
`numbers right before that, those were supplied by our
`legal counsel.
` Q. Let me hand you Exhibit A --
` A. Okay.
` Q. -- to your declaration, which has previously been
`marked has Crossroads Exhibit 2040. Would you take a
`minute and look at that and let me know when you're
`finished.
` A. (Reviewing document.)
` Okay.
` Q. So which portions of Exhibit A, Crossroads
`Exhibit 2040, did you prepare?
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` A. The -- everything except for the "Bates Label" or
`the "Litigation?" columns.
` Q. So you prepared the first six columns. Is that
`correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What information did you use to prepare the first
`six columns of Exhibit A?
` A. We used the settlement or license agreements to
`prepare that.
` Q. And did you take any steps to verify that the
`"Bates Label" column or the "Litigation?" column were the
`truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
` A. I relied on legal counsel for those two columns.
` Q. And you realized when you signed your
`declaration, Exhibit 2039, that you were representing to
`the Board in these IPR proceedings that not only your
`declaration but Exhibit A were the truth, the whole truth
`and nothing but the truth. Right?
` A. Right.
` Q. And is it still your position today that your
`declaration and Exhibit A are the truth, the whole truth
`and nothing but the truth?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Would you look at your declaration, Exhibit 2039,
`
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`specifically in Paragraph 3.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Do you see the language where you start, "The
`'Litigation?' column indicates whether or not, to
`Crossroads' knowledge, Crossroads or the licensee ever
`filed a lawsuit regarding the patents in the '972 patent
`family"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. As the person who leads Crossroads' legal
`operations, how does Crossroads obtain knowledge of
`lawsuits?
` A. Through our legal counsel.
` Q. Does Crossroads monitor any litigation filings as
`part of its ordinary practice?
` A. What do you mean by "monitor"?
` Q. Check to see if you've been sued on a daily
`basis?
` A. We rely on legal counsel or get something in the
`mail.
` Q. And any lawsuit that Crossroads files, Crossroads
`would certainly have knowledge of that. Right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And any enforcement efforts, including demand
`letters or phone calls, Crossroads would certainly have
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`knowledge of. Right?
` A. Somebody, yes, at Crossroads should.
` Q. And did you make sure when you represented
`Crossroads' knowledge of lawsuits, that you had checked
`with everyone at Crossroads to make sure that Exhibit A to
`your declaration was the truth, the whole truth and
`nothing but the truth?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. This was reasonable because it's from the past
`and, you know, relying on legal counsel for that
`information. But we are a public company, so any new
`litigation, yes, we make sure we disclose it like we need
`to.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Why did you use the term
`"reasonable" when I asked you if the litigation was the
`truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?
` A. I'm not sure why I used that word.
` Q. Do you think there's a reasonableness standard in
`determining what the truth is?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. No, I'd like to strike that word, though. I
`didn't --
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) Did you do anything other than
`rely upon legal counsel for the "Litigation?" column in
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`Exhibit A to your declaration?
` A. Will -- will you clarify that for me?
` Q. Sure. Other than your lawyers handing you the
`"Litigation?" column in Exhibit A and you signing your
`name representing it's the truth, the whole truth and
`nothing but the truth, did you do anything else to confirm
`that that column was correct?
` A. I'd say no.
` Q. What's your understanding of when there is a
`"yes" under the "Litigation?" column of Exhibit A to your
`declaration, what that means?
` A. That it was a settlement because there was
`litigation.
` Q. Okay. Was it litigation involving the three
`patents at issue in these IPRs?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. And you understood at the time Exhibit A was
`being prepared to be attached to your declaration, it was
`being submitted in connection with IPRs involving three
`particular patents?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. I don't know.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) At the time you prepared your
`declaration, you didn't understand there were three
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`particular patents at issue in the IPR?
` A. I don't know, huh-uh.
` Q. In order for there to be a yes in the
`"Litigation?" box, did it need to be patent litigation?
` A. I don't know.
` Q. So the "Litigation?" box could be checked "yes"
`if there were a contract dispute?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, misstates prior
`testimony.
` A. I -- I don't know.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILBIN) At the time you signed your
`declaration and represented to the Board this
`"Litigation?" column, you didn't understand what type of
`litigation that involved?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, misstates prior
`testimony.
` A. I don't know.
` Q. (BY MR. PHILB