JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. AND QUANTUM CORPORATION
` V
` CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, INC.
`
` CASE IPR2014-01544
` PATENT 7,051,147
`
` ***************************************************
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
` JUNE 30TH, 2015
` VOLUME 1
` **************************************************
`
`ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.,
`produced as a witness at the instance of the
`Petitioners, and duly sworn, was taken in the
`above-styled and numbered cause on the 30TH of JUNE,
`2015, from 9:17 a.m. to 5:04 p.m., before Samantha
`Downing, CSR, CLR, in and for the State of Texas,
`reported by machine shorthand, at the offices of BLANK
`ROME, L.L.P., 717 TEXAS AVENUE, SUITE 1400, HOUSTON,
`TEXAS 77002, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil
`Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or
`attached hereto.
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`CISCO et al. v. CROSSROADS
`CQ-1025 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 1 of 228
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`June 30, 2015
`
`1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` CISCO SYSTEMS, INC. AND QUANTUM CORPORATION
` V
` CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, INC.
`
` CASE IPR2014-01544
` PATENT 7,051,147
`
` ***************************************************
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
` JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
` JUNE 30TH, 2015
` VOLUME 1
` **************************************************
`
`ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.,
`produced as a witness at the instance of the
`Petitioners, and duly sworn, was taken in the
`above-styled and numbered cause on the 30TH of JUNE,
`2015, from 9:17 a.m. to 5:04 p.m., before Samantha
`Downing, CSR, CLR, in and for the State of Texas,
`reported by machine shorthand, at the offices of BLANK
`ROME, L.L.P., 717 TEXAS AVENUE, SUITE 1400, HOUSTON,
`TEXAS 77002, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil
`Procedure and the provisions stated on the record or
`attached hereto.
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`CISCO et al. v. CROSSROADS
`CQ-1025 / IPR2014-01544
`Page 1 of 228
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
`
`2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
` ATTORNEYS FOR PETITIONERS:
` DUANE MORRIS
` 1075 PEACHTREE STREET, N.E.
` SUITE 2000
` ATLANTA, GEORGIA 30309
` Telephone: 404.253.6900
` By: MATTHEW GAUDET, ESQ.
` AND
` HAYNES AND BOONE, L.L.P.
` 2505 N. PLANO ROAD
` SUITE 4000
` RICHARDSON, TEXAS 75082
` Telephone: 972.739.8663
` E-mail: Scott.jarratt@haynesboone.com
` By: SCOTT JARRATT, ESQ.
` and
` HAYNES AND BOONE, L.L.P.
` 2323 VICTORY AVENUE
` SUITE 700
` DALLAS, TEXAS 75219
` Telephone: 214.651.5116
` E-mail: Andy.ehmke@haynesboone.com
` By: ANDREW S. EHMKE, ESQ.
` ATTORNEYS FOR ORACLE:
` WEIL, GOTSHAL & MANGES, L.L.P.
` 201 REDWOOD SHORES PARKWAY
` REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA 94065
` Telephone: 650.802.3213
` E-mail: Aaron.huang@weil.com
` By: AARON Y. HUANG, ESQ.
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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` ATTORNEYS FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
` BLANK ROME, L.L.P.
` 717 TEXAS AVENUE
` SUITE 1400
` HOUSTON, TEXAS 77002
` By: JAMES HALL, ESQ.
` AND
` SPRINKLE IP LAW GROUP
` 1301W. 25TH STREET
` SUITE 408
` AUSTIN, TEXAS 78705
` By: JOHN ADAIR, ESQ.
`
` ALSO PRESENT:
`
` CLEM ROBERTS, ESQ., QUANTUM (APPEARING BY
` PHONE)
` GREG GARDELLA, ESQ., ORACLE (APPEARING BY
` PHONE)
` MR. JIM HANNA, VIDEO OPERATOR
`
` REPORTED BY:
`
` MS. SAMANTHA DOWNING, CSR, CLR
` CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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`4
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` INDEX
`
`Appearances.................................... PAGE 2
`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
` Examination by MATTHEW GAUDET, ESQ....... PAGE 6
`Signature and Changes.......................... PAGE 179
`Reporter's Certificate......................... PAGE 181
`
` EXHIBITS
`
`NO. MARKED DESCRIPTION
`
`Crossroads Exhibit 2600 15 Corrected list of materials
` '041
`Crossroads Exhibit 2601 15 Corrected list of materials
` '147
`CQ 1020 36 Installation Guide
`CQ 1021 64 Supplemental Declaration
`CQ 1022 131 Reproduction of figure 3
`CQ 1023 131 Exhibit CQ 1022 with
` markings
`CQ 1024 140 Exhibit CQ 1022 with
` markings
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Today is
`June 30th, 2015. This time is 9:17.
` This begins the deposition of John Levy
`in the matter of Cisco Systems, Inc. et al versus
`Crossroads Systems, Inc.
` Will counsel please state their
`appearances after which the court reporter will swear in
`the witness?
` MR. GAUDET: Matt Gaudet from
`Duane Morris taking the deposition on behalf of
`petitioners.
` MR. JARRATT: Scott Jarratt with
`Haynes & Boone, also representing petitioners.
` MR. EHMKE: Andrew Ehmke from
`Haynes & Boone, also representing petitioners.
` MR. HUANG: Aaron Huang from Weil on
`behalf of Oracle Corporation.
` MR. HALL: James Hall from Blank Rome
`representing Crossroads Systems.
` With me is John Adair from the
`Sprinkle Law Group.
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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` MR. JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.,
`was called as a witness and, being first duly sworn,
`testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. GAUDET:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Levy.
` A. Morning.
` Q. You have been deposed before, correct?
` A. I have.
` Q. And prior to today, you have been deposed at
`least 19 times in your career; is that fair?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Are you familiar with the pending litigation in
`Federal District Court in the Western District of Texas
`where Crossroads has alleged that Cisco and Quantum have
`infringed the same patents that are at issue in the
`IPR proceeding?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. And there are other defendants involved in that
`case, as well; is that correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. If I refer to those as the District Court
`litigation during the course of the deposition, will you
`understand what I am referring to?
` A. Yes.
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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` Q. And you were deposed in connection with the
`District Court litigation at least once; is that
`correct?
` A. With regard to the claim construction, yes.
` Q. You're familiar with the rules of depositions?
` A. I think so, yes.
` Q. And the -- one that I will remind you of is if
`at any point you want to take a break, let me know. As
`long as there's not a question pending, we will stop and
`take a break.
` There's a stack of paper next to you that
`has three documents in it, and I have also given your
`counsel a set of these papers. The first one is
`entitled, "Declaration of John Levy, Ph.D. relating to
`the 6,425,035 patent," and it is tagged with
`Crossroads Exhibit 2027.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is this the Declaration that you submitted
`in connection with the IPR on the '035 patent?
` A. Let me just verify that.
` Yes, it is.
` Q. The second document in that stack of papers is
`also entitled, "Declaration of John Levy, Ph.D."
` This time it's in regard to
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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`Patent No. 7,934,041, and it also has
`Crossroads Exhibit 2027 on it.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is this a copy of the Declaration that you
`submitted in connection with the '041 IPR?
` A. Wait a minute. I think we have an exhibit
`number problem here.
` The 2027 seems to be on the '147 one.
` MR. HALL: I think the issue is that 1463
`doesn't have an exhibit sticker.
` (Brief discussion off the record.)
` MR. GAUDET: I was going to let them have
`the same exhibit number. And to the extent we're
`talking about one or the other, we'll clarify.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay.
` A. Okay.
` Q. The document -- just to be sure the record is
`clear, the document entitled, "Declaration of John Levy
`Ph.D., regarding Patent No. 7,934,041 now has an exhibit
`tag on it marked Exhibit 2027.
` Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Is that document a copy of the Declaration that
`you submitted in connection with the IPR of the
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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`'041 patent?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Because we're doing this deposition across
`three different IPR proceedings, and each of the IPR
`proceedings has its own set of exhibit numbers, you've
`probably seen that multiple documents have the same
`exhibit number.
` A. Yes.
` Q. When I refer to these Declarations, I will
`refer to, for example, the '035 Declaration or the
`'041 Declaration rather than just the exhibit numbers.
` Does that make sense?
` A. It does, although would it be possible for you
`to refer to the IPR number instead?
` Q. Yes, I will.
` And if I don't, just remind me that I
`didn't, and I will try to do it in the manner that's
`easiest for you to follow.
` A. Thank you.
` Q. This third document is entitled,
`"Declaration of John Levy, Ph.D. regarding
`Patent No. 7,051,147," in the IPR whose last four
`numbers is 1544.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
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`June 30, 2015
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` Q. And is this a copy of the Declaration that you
`submitted in connection with the 1544 IPR which is
`related to the '147 patent?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Okay. And this also has
`Crossroads Exhibit 2027.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, with respect to the three Declarations
`that you submitted in the 3 IPRs, that is the 1226 IPR,
`the 1463 IPR, and the 1544 IPR, you have not opined in
`any of those three Declarations regarding any
`secondary indicia of nonobviousness, correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. With respect to the 3 Declarations in the 1226
`IPR, the 1436 IPR, and the 1544, you haven't undertaken
`any analysis of whether or not the claimed invention of
`any of the 3 Crossroads patents at issue, that is the
`'135 patent, the '014, and the '147 patent, are
`responsible for any form of commercial success; is that
`correct?
` A. I have not in these statements rendered any
`opinion on that.
` Q. Okay. And you have not otherwise rendered an
`opinion on that in any statement that has been submitted
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`JOHN LEVY, Ph.D.
`June 30, 2015
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`in any of these three IPRs, the 1226 IPR, the 1463 IPR,
`or the 1544 IPR, to your knowledge; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Is that different from the previous
`question?
` Q. To clarify, I understood your previous question
`to be limited to these three Declarations, and I wanted
`the record to reflect that there are no statements
`you've given in connection with the IPRs related to the
`topic of whether or not the three patents are
`responsible for commercial success.
` So with that clarification, is it, in
`fact, the case that you haven't submitted any opinion
`about whether or not the three patents at issue are
`responsible for any form of commercial success?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. That's correct.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) In the 3 Declarations, that is
`the Declaration IPR 1226, IPR 1463, and IPR 1544
`relating to the 3 patents at issue, that is the '035
`patent, the '041 patent, and the '147 patent, you've not
`opined on whether or not any of Crossroads' licensees of
`those 3 patents actually practice any of the claims of
`those 3 patents; is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
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`June 30, 2015
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` Q. Okay. Now, in -- I am going to refer to the
`3 IPR Declarations that you've submitted, that is the
`Declaration in the 1226 IPR, the 1463 IPR, and the
`1544 IPR, collectively as, "your three IPR
`Declarations," for purposes of this deposition.
` If I say that, will you understand I am
`referring to those three documents?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. In each of your three IPR Declarations,
`you opined on the term, "map," and whether or not the
`map was present in the prior-art references submitted by
`the petitioners; is that correct?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Yes. I opined on whether or not the claimed
`map was in those prior-art references.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. For purposes of those
`opinions, does -- the claimed map, as you put it, is
`that the same thing across the three different patents?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. I would say that it's substantially the same,
`yes.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Have you relied on any
`difference with respect to the meaning of the
`claimed map across any of the three patents or the
`claims of any of the three patents in any of your three
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`June 30, 2015
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`Declarations to argue, for example, that one claim might
`be treated differently than another claim with respect
`to that issue of the claimed map?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Not that I recall at the moment.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. In each of your three
`IPR Declarations, you opined on the concept of
`access controls.
` Is that correct?
` A. I believe so.
` Q. Okay. And with respect to the claims
`requirements of access controls, was that -- is that in
`your opinion the same for purposes of your analysis
`across each of the 3 patents, that is to say the
`'035 patent, the '041 patent, and the '147 patent?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. I don't recall at the moment.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. Can you recall any
`differences where you would argue that one claim should
`be treated differently with respect to the topic of
`access controls versus any other claim across the three
`patents?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. I really don't recall at the moment.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. Was the term, "access
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`control," understood by a person of ordinary skill in
`the art in December of 1997?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Before we go further, if I may, I would like to
`point out the appendix C.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Yes, please.
` A. Okay. So for the -- these three Declarations,
`as you know, we attached a CV at appendix A, a list of
`engagements as appendix B, and materials considered as
`appendix C. However, we replicated those across the 3.
`Unfortunately, we failed to attach the proper appendix C
`to the 1463 and 1544 Declarations.
` I have those for you here and now.
` Q. Okay. We'll go ahead and mark those for the
`record.
` A. And as you see, they refer to the proper
`patents as opposed to the wrong patent.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. Terrific.
` I wonder if we should give these
`Crossroads exhibit numbers or petitioners exhibit
`numbers.
` MR. ADAIR: You were -- we don't object
`to the correction with it.
` It makes more sense to have them be the
`Crossroads exhibit number rather than ours.
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`June 30, 2015
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` MR. HALL: Sure. Why don't we start with
`2600?
` (Crossroads Exhibit Nos. 2600 and 2601
` were marked.)
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Just so the record is clear
`about this, I am going to hand you a document marked
`Crossroads Exhibit 2600.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And is this the corrected list of materials
`considered with respect to your Declaration regarding
`the '041 patent, which is the 1463 IPR?
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. Okay. And now I am going to hand you a
`document marked as Crossroads Exhibit 2601.
` Do you have that in front of you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is that the corrected list of materials
`considered regarding the '147 patent, which is
`IPR No. 1544?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. In December of 1997, was the term,
`"access control," a term that would be understood to
`have a plain and ordinary meaning by one of
`ordinary skill in the art?
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` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Well, in December of 1997, there was a term of
`art called, "access control," and it referred to quite a
`wide variety of things.
` So, "access control," however, in the
`claimed -- the subject patents' claims is very specific
`and may or may not correlate with any one of the
`commonly-understood access controls.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. Well, what were the
`commonly-understood names of access control to one of
`skill in the art in December of 1997?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, objection;
`scope.
` A. Well, I will offer an example.
` In file systems, there were typically a
`kind of file access control which limited certain users
`to have access to certain files.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Would an example of that sort
`of access control be that one group of users could have
`access to a particular file, and a second group of users
`could not have access to that particular file?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. That is one example.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. What are other examples
`of access control as it would have been generally
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`understood in December of 1997 by one of
`ordinary skill in the art?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. Well, similar to the example you just gave,
`another example would be an individual user may have
`access to certain files, whereas other individual users
`may not.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Are there any other examples
`that you can think of of the ordinary meaning of,
`"access control," to one of skill in the art in
`December of 1997?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. Right at the moment, I don't think I can come
`up with any other easy examples.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. You said there were a
`wide variety, so there might be other examples; you
`can't at the moment think of them?
` Is that fair?
` A. Well, yes.
` I mean, if you think of access controls
`in general, a lock on the door is a form of
`access control. So possession of a physical key is a
`form of an access-permitting device.
` Q. Understood.
` So some way of permitting or -- or not
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`permitting access I guess broadly understood could be an
`access control; is that fair?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. In general.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) I want to turn -- I want to
`use the Declaration you submitted regarding the
`'035 patent, which is the 1226 IPR.
` If you would get that in front of you,
`and I will ask you to turn to paragraph 11?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Okay. And paragraph 11 describes your
`employment at Quantum Corporation from 1993 to 1998.
` Do you see that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And that -- and that period of time
`encompasses the December 1997 filing date or original
`priority date of the 3 patents at issue, so I was going
`to ask you a few questions about that.
` Understood?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. What was your experience with
`Fibre Channel at Quantum as of December of 1997?
` A. Well, let's see.
` Since the division of Quantum in which I
`was employed did not produce Fibre Channel interface
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`devices, I did not have any direct design experience
`with Fibre Channel at that time.
` Q. Okay. When was the first time that you had any
`direct design experience with Fibre Channel?
` A. Well, I did not design disk drive hardware.
` I was managing a group of engineers --
`later three groups of engineers and their managers --
`related to disk drive interfacing, disk drive firmware,
`and general software issues related to computer systems
`and storage. So I did not at any time actually design a
`Fibre Channel interface.
` Q. Okay. More generally, have you ever worked
`with any Fibre Channel equipment?
` A. I have had exposure to such equipment in my
`later years as an expert.
` Q. That would be as a litigation expert?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Was that exposure under a
`Protective Order?
` A. It was in connection with litigation where I
`inspected some accused equipment.
` Q. Okay. What can you tell me about the accused
`equipment that you inspected?
` A. I am actually not sure what the constraints
`would be.
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` I examined the functions of any industry
`equipment that used Fibre Channel.
` Q. Who is the manufacturer of that equipment; can
`you tell me that?
` A. I am not sure I am -- I would actually have to
`ask Mr. Adair if that's common knowledge.
` MR. ADAIR: I will have to go back and
`look.
` MR. HALL: Let's just say no right now.
` A. I think it's probably best I not discuss that
`at the moment.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) okay. Other than this one
`experience -- let me back up.
` What was the approximate date that you
`conducted that inspection in litigation?
` A. Approximately 2012.
` Q. Okay. Other than inspecting equipment as a
`litigation expert in approximately 2012, have you had
`any other experiences working with Fibre Channel
`equipment?
` A. Well, no. Let's see.
` I don't recall whether I worked with
`Fibre Channel equipment outside of the example I just
`gave you.
` However, as a specialist and expert in
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`computer interfacing and in bus design, I have studied
`the Fibre Channel specifications and some of their
`usage, some of its usage in systems.
` Q. Okay. And I think you said this: You have not
`designed a system that used Fibre Channel; is that
`correct?
` A. That I have not; that's correct.
` Q. Okay. I take it you've not held in your hands
`Fibre Channel cables before?
` A. Before?
` Q. I am sorry.
` Have you ever held in your hands
`Fibre Channel cables?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. On what occasion?
` A. Well, the 2012 inspection, for certain.
` Q. Okay. Other than the 2012 inspection as a
`litigation expert in a case, have you otherwise ever
`held Fibre Channel cables in your hands?
` A. I don't recall.
` Q. What is a Fibre Channel host adapter card?
` A. Well, in general, a host adapter card is an
`item of -- it's an electronic module which on its basic
`level interfaces between a host, meaning a computer
`system, and a bus.
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` Q. In the example of a Fibre Channel host adapter,
`would the Fibre Channel host adapter be something that
`interfaces between a host -- a computer system -- and
`then a -- on the one side and then a Fibre Channel bus
`on the other side?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. How is the Fibre Channel host adapter
`card connected to the host?
` A. Well, that depends, of course, upon the host's
`architecture.
` But in general, one would expect to find
`an internal bus in the host computer system to which the
`host bus adapter connects.
` Q. Okay. Could there also be some sort of
`external port on the computer system to which the
`Fibre Channel adapter card connects?
` A. It depends on what you mean by, "some sort of
`port."
` Q. In other words, rather than there being an
`internal bus to the computer system, there would be some
`way to have an external Fibre Channel card -- rather an
`external Fibre Channel host adapter that connected to
`the host device.
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Let me try that again.
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` You testified about one scenario where a
`Fibre Channel host adapter could be part -- could be
`attached to the internal bus of a host such as a
`computer system.
` Is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. Are there also scenarios where the
`Fibre Channel host adapter card could be external to the
`host?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` A. Well, these adapters are actually generally
`referred to as host bus adapter -- host bus adapters.
`And as such, they generally refer to something that
`interfaces specifically to an internal host bus.
` So it's hard for me to conceive of one
`that would be external in the sense of non-connecting to
`a host internal bus.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. If one of skill in the
`art was charged with constructing one that actually
`worked that way in December of 1997, would that be
`something that would be within their ability to do?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) And by, "one," I mean a -- a
`way of having a Fibre Channel adapter -- a host adapter
`card that's just external to the host system and that,
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`you know, connects via some sort of a connection on the
`external face of the host.
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` MR. GAUDET: Sure. Let me ask it again.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Would one of skill in the art
`in December of 1997 have been able to construct a
`Fibre Channel host adapter card that was external to a
`host system, that is to say external to a computer, and
`connect it to the host system via some external
`connection?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. Well, the problem I have with trying to answer
`that is that the external connection you're referring to
`would itself have to be yet another bus. And so I have
`never seen such a configuration, so I cannot conceive of
`how that would be designed.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Meaning it would be a bus that
`would then connect to the internal bus of the host?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. Well, every external bus that attaches to a
`computer system must somehow connect to an internal bus
`on that computer system, and so the hypothetical you're
`providing does not make sense to me.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. Would it be possible to
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`have a Fibre Channel -- well, let me strike that.
` If -- in the scenario where a
`Fibre Channel adapter card is connected at the internal
`bus of a host, if that Fibre Channel adapter card went
`bad, could it be replaced and put a new Fibre Channel
`adapter card in its place?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. Well, I would need to see the proposed card
`that you're describing.
` But it is not unusual for interfaces or
`host bus adapters to be placed on modules that can be
`unplugged and replaced with another module.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. And describe the
`logistics of that.
` How do you go about unplugging one module
`and replacing it with another module in the context of a
`Fibre Channel host adapter card?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Well, I will answer that with regard to
`generally host bus adapter cards.
` One has to open up the computer system
`typically, turn it off, of course, possibly unscrew some
`hold-down screws, remove a printed circuit board from a
`motherboard of some kind, and then replace it with
`another circuit board of the same type or similar type,
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`put the screws back in, and close the system up.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. And in this example,
`the printed circuit board you're referring to is the
`Fibre Channel host; is that correct?
` A. Is a module that performs some function of
`connecting from the internal bus to some external bus.
` Q. Okay. And it's -- the Fibre Channel host
`adapter is what I should have said instead of the
`Fibre Channel host; is that correct?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form, scope.
` A. Well, I believe a Fibre Channel host bus
`adapter would fall into the category of the type of
`things I was describing.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. And what you just
`described in terms of logistics of swapping one
`Fibre Channel adapter for another, would that have been
`familiar to one of skill in the art in
`December of 1997?
` MR. HALL: Objection; scope.
` A. The ability to remove what's known in the art
`as a field-replaceable unit from a computer system and
`replace it with another one would be known to a person
`of ordinary skill in the art in the 1997 time frame.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. And what is --
`"field-replaceable unit," means something that can be
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`swapped out; is that fair?
` A. Yes, the -- a component that can be carried
`around by a Field Engineer and replaced.
` Q. Okay. And a Fibre Channel host adapter is an
`example of a field-replaceable component?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. It could be.
` Q. (BY MR. GAUDET) Okay. And there would be
`examples of where it would be in December of 1997?
` A. I don't know for certain.
` Q. Okay. Do you have any reason to doubt that it
`could have been in December of 1997?
` MR. HALL: Objection; form.
` A. Well, in December
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