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`Page 1
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`STRYKER CORPORATION, )
` Petitioner, ) Case No. IPR 2014-01519
` vs. ) Case No. IPR 2014-1433
`ORTHOPHOENIX, LLC, ) Case No. IPR 2014-1434
` Patent Owner. ) Case No. IPR 2014-1535
`Patent 6,623,505 B2
`
` DEPOSITION OF GAMAL BAROUD, PH.D.
` New York, New York
` July 30, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`KATHY S. KLEPFER, RMR, RPR, CRR, CLR
`JOB NO. 95931
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 1
`
`STRYKER CORPORATION v. ORTHOPHOENIX, LLC
`
`IPR2014-01433
`
`

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`Page 2
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`Page 3
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
`McANDREWS, HELD & MALLOY
`Attorneys for Petitioner
` 500 West Madison Street
` Chicago, Illinois 60661
`BY: SANDRA FRANTZEN, ESQ.
` DEBORAH LAUGHTON, ESQ.
`
`ASCENDA LAW GROUP
`Attorneys for the Patent Owner
` 333 West San Carlos Street
` San Jose, California 95110
`BY: TAREK FAHMI, ESQ.
` MICHAEL DAVITZ, ESQ.
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` July 30, 2015
`
` Deposition of GAMAL BAROUD, PH.D.,
` held at Eaton & Van Winkle, LLP, 3 Park
` Avenue, New York, New York, before Kathy S.
` Klepfer, a Registered Professional Reporter,
` Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime
` Reporter, Certified Livenote Reporter, and
` Notary Public of the State of New York.
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`
` IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND
` AGREED, by and between the attorneys for
` the respective parties herein, that the
` filing and sealing be and the same are
` hereby waived.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND
` AGREED that all objections, except as to
` the form of the question, shall be
` reserved to the time of the trial.
` IT IS FURTHER STIPULATED AND
` AGREED that the within deposition may be
` sworn to and signed before any officer
` authorized to administer an oath, with
` the same force and effect as if signed
` and sworn to before the Court.
`
`Page 5
`
` GAMAL BAROUD
`GAMAL BAROUD, called as a
` witness, having been duly sworn by a Notary
` Public, was examined and testified as
` follows: 08:57
`EXAMINATION BY
`MS. FRANTZEN:
` Q. Can you please state your name and
`address for the record.
` A. My name is Gamal Baroud. I live in 08:58
`620 Belmont Street, Sherbrooke, Quebec, Canada.
` Q. Do you understand you are under oath
`here today and you're obligated to testify
`truthfully?
` A. Yes, I do. 08:58
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
` A. No.
` Q. Well, during the process, I will be
`asking you questions and you will answer the
`questions, but we need to have an audible 08:58
`response in words so that the court reporter can
`take down your testimony.
` Do you understand that?
` A. Yes. I do appreciate the explanation.
` Q. So would you say, yes? 08:58
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`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 2
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`IPR2014-01433
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`Page 6
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` A. Yes. Yes.
` Q. Okay, you do understand.
` And if there is any questions that you
`have about any of my questions, please let me 08:58
`know. Yes?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And if you need to take a break at any
`time, we'll be taking regular breaks, but please
`let us know if you need a break or if you need 08:59
`some water or something like that. Okay?
` A. Yes. Thank you.
` Q. Great. I do ask, though, that we
`don't break in the middle of a question, if it's
`possible -- 08:59
` A. Yes.
` Q. -- so that we can get the questions
`answered.
` Okay. So what did you do to prepare
`for this deposition today? 08:59
` A. I read the declarations; and I got in
`on Tuesday, so I spent one and a half days with
`the counsels.
` Q. Did you review exhibits and documents
`that were attached to the declaration? 08:59
`
`Page 8
`
` GAMAL BAROUD
` Q. So let me restate that.
` For the record, I handed the witness
`what has been marked Stryker Exhibit 1001 in IPR
`1535. Can you tell me what Stryker Exhibit 1001 09:01
`is?
` A. If you don't mind, I will get my
`glasses.
` So this is the Exhibit 1001, this is
`what you just handed me, and it says United 09:02
`States Patent, Patent Number U.S. 6,280,456 B1.
`The title of it is Methods for Treating Bone.
`It lists the inventor, the assignee, and it has
`some additional information to this patent.
` Q. Okay. And would you understand if I 09:02
`refer to this exhibit, Exhibit 1001 in IPR 1535,
`as the '456 patent?
` A. Yes, I would.
` Q. Let me next hand you what has been
`marked Stryker Exhibit 1001 in IPR 1519, and 09:03
`I'll just state for the record that it's U.S.
`Patent 6,623,505.
` And what is Exhibit 1001 in Stryker
`IPR 1519?
` A. So this refers to the U.S. Patent 09:03
`
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` A. I did quickly. I did quickly, but
`mainly, I did my declarations.
` Q. Okay. Did you review any documents
`that weren't attached to your declarations? 09:00
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. Let me hand you what has been
`previously marked as Stryker Exhibit 1001 in IPR
`2014-1535.
` A. Thank you. 09:00
` Q. What is Exhibit 1001 in IPR 1519?
` A. Could I have my declaration as well?
` Q. Can you answer the question without
`your declaration or -- about what the exhibit
`is? 09:01
` A. If I understood you correctly, you
`referred to this as being Exhibit 1.
` Q. Exhibit 1001. If you look at the
`bottom of the document, it says Exhibit 1001,
`and it has a case number of 1519. Do you see 09:01
`that at the bottom?
` A. I see 1535.
` Q. Oh. Well, I'm sorry, no wonder that
`there is confusion.
` A. No, it's okay. 09:01
`
`Page 9
`
` GAMAL BAROUD
`6,623,505 B, as in boy, 2.
` Q. Okay. And will you understand that if
`I refer to the '505 patent during this
`deposition, that I am referring to Stryker 09:04
`Exhibit 1001 in IPR 1519?
` A. I would prefer to use the same system.
`You said you would refer to the '45 -- to the
`first exhibit as '456.
` Q. Yes. 09:04
` A. And it would be really much easier to
`refer to the patent number, '505.
` Q. Yes. So if I refer to it as the '505
`patent, will you understand that I'm
`referring -- 09:04
` A. I would appreciate if we do it
`consistently, yes.
` Q. Okay. So, just to clarify the record,
`if I refer to Exhibit 1001 in Stryker 1519 as
`the '505 patent, you will understand that I'm 09:04
`referring to U.S. Patent 6,623,505?
` A. Yes, I will do.
` Q. Great. Now, you reviewed the '505
`patent in connection with your work in this
`case, correct? 09:05
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide
`(877) 702-9580
`
`3
`
`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 3
`
`IPR2014-01433
`
`

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`Page 10
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`Page 11
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. And you reviewed the '456 patent in
`connection with your work on this case, correct?
` A. Yes, I did. 09:05
` Q. And did you review these two patents
`during your preparation for your deposition
`today?
` A. Now, let me try to be very clear. We
`are talking here about the preparation for the 09:05
`last two days, and this is what I referred to at
`the beginning.
` Q. Yes.
` A. I did -- I did only read the
`abstracts. 09:05
` Q. Okay.
` A. This is what I did.
` Q. Did you review the patents in their
`entirety when you were preparing your
`declaration for this case? 09:05
` A. Yes, I did, and the reason I did not
`really read any of them in detail is because I
`didn't know the order. We have four cases, four
`cases, so we have these two patents and we have
`the two other patents, and this is plenty of 09:06
`
`Page 12
`
` GAMAL BAROUD
` A. Yes, it appears if I look -- if I look
`at page 1, the indent of column 1 is not the
`same as column 1. The indent, likewise, in
`column 2 -- 09:08
` Q. Let me ask you a different question.
` A. Please.
` Q. Maybe this will help expedite things.
`So I'm going to be asking you some questions
`today about the specification of these patents, 09:08
`and so, for the efficiency, it's easier for me
`to just ask about them together rather than ask
`you the same question about each patent over and
`over again. So how about maybe this is a better
`way to ask the question. 09:08
` Looking at the patents from the '505
`patent and the '456 patent, starting from Field
`of the Invention up until before the claims, are
`you aware of any, sitting here today, are you
`aware of any substantive differences in the 09:08
`patents that affect your testimony at all, other
`than the claims of the patents?
` A. If you would give me a minute --
` Q. Sure.
` A. -- just to go quickly. 09:09
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`information. It would have been easier to have
`known the order.
` Q. Okay. So, just to ask my previous
`question, did you review the '505 and '456 09:06
`patents in their entirety when you were
`preparing your declarations that you submitted
`previously in association with this case?
` A. Yes, I did.
` Q. And you agree that the '505 and '456 09:06
`patents are related patents?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form.
` Q. Let me strike that. You agree that
`the '505 and '456 patents generally have the
`same patent specifications, except for the 09:06
`patent claims?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. I disagree because I look at the
`abstract and the abstract is not the same.
` Q. Okay. Other than the abstract and the 09:07
`claims, are you aware of any substantive
`differences between the '456 and '505 patent?
` A. Let me look at them, if you don't
`mind.
` (Document review.) 09:07
`
`Page 13
`
` GAMAL BAROUD
` (Document review.)
` A. Now, could you ask your question one
`more time, please?
` Q. Sure. Other than the claims, and 09:10
`starting from Field of the Invention and the
`rest of the specification of the '550 and '456
`patents, are you aware of any substantive
`differences between the specifications of the
`'505 and '456 patents? 09:11
` A. I'm not clearly sure what you mean by
`"substantive," but I see, for example, like the
`Summary of the Invention is also different, if
`you consider this as a part of the
`specification. 09:11
` Q. Okay. Fair enough. How about this,
`I'm going to ask you questions about the
`specifications of the patents. Well, strike
`that. Let me ask you this question.
` Do you recall having any differences 09:11
`in substantive analysis between the two patents
`in your declarations?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form.
` A. I have difficulties with "substantive"
`because I see the substance in the Summary of 09:11
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`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 4
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`IPR2014-01433
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`the Invention as not being the same.
` Q. Okay. How about this question: When
`I ask you a question about what's disclosed in
`the specifications of the '456 and '505 patents, 09:12
`and I refer to the patents together, the
`specifications, will you let me know if I ask
`you a question about the specification of those
`patents and if there's a difference in your
`answer between the two patents? 09:12
` A. Can you repeat the question, please?
` (Record read.)
` A. If you would hand me the declaration,
`it would help.
` Q. I'm happy to get to that point, but I 09:13
`think it might be more efficient at this point
`to just start asking you questions.
` A. Quite.
` Q. Do your best, and if you think there's
`a difference between the two patents, you will 09:13
`let me know. Got it?
` A. Why don't you give me a couple of
`minutes to read -- to refresh my memory of one
`of the patents, if you don't mind.
` Q. Well, how about I just -- just because 09:13
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`Page 16
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` Q. My question is does the '505 patent
`suggest that the balloons used for the
`inventions of that '505 patent can be made of a
`number of materials? 09:15
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. The '505 suggests that the material of
`the expandable structure can be selected
`according therapeutic objectives surrounding its
`use. For example, materials including vinyl, 09:15
`nylon, polyethylene, ionomer.
` Q. So you will agree that the '505 patent
`suggests that the balloons used for the
`inventions of the '505 patent can be made from a
`number of materials? 09:16
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. Let me be very specific. The '550
`lists materials, different materials.
` Q. So the answer is yes?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. 09:16
` Q. It can be made from a number of
`materials?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. It says materials including vinyl,
`nylon, polyethylene, ionomer, polyurethane and 09:16
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`we have limited time --
` A. I understand.
` Q. -- I'll just ask you a question. If
`you need time to review the patents for the 09:13
`question, let me know. I'm not trying to do a
`memory test or anything like that right now, so
`let's just go for the questions, and if you have
`a question and you need to stop and compare the
`two, we can do that. Okay? 09:13
` A. Fair enough.
` Q. Okay. So let's look at the '505
`patent. Turn to column 12, line 65 of the '505
`patent.
` Are you there? 09:14
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, the '505 patent suggests that the
`balloons used for the inventions of the
`patent-in-suit can be made of a number of
`materials, correct? 09:14
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. Where does it say it? Could you --
`could you please highlight?
` Q. I'm just asking a question.
` A. Yes. 09:14
`
`Page 17
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`PET and so on.
` Q. So those are a number of materials,
`right?
` A. Yes. 09:16
` Q. And the '456 patent also suggests that
`the balloons used for the inventions of the '456
`patent can be made from a number of materials,
`correct?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form. 09:16
` A. If I understand you correctly, are you
`referring also to column number 12?
` Q. It should be around the same spot.
` A. Yes. 65, yes. So it suggests it's --
`it suggests also materials including vinyl, 09:17
`nylon, polyethylene, ionomer, polyurethane, PET.
` Q. So the answer for the '456 patent is,
`yes, the balloons used for that patent can also
`be made from a number of materials, correct?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form. 09:17
` A. What I read here it says "materials
`including you know vinyl, nylon, polyethylene,
`ionomer" and the other listed materials.
` Q. So the '456 patent discloses a number
`of materials, correct? 09:17
`
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`IPR2014-01433
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` A. Yes.
` Q. And you mentioned one of the materials
`includes vinyl?
` A. Yes. 09:17
` Q. And another material is nylon?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And another material is polyethylenes?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And another material is ionomers? 09:18
` A. This is what it lists, yes.
` Q. Polyurethanes are another material
`that are listed for the balloons?
` A. I see it.
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form. 09:18
` A. I see polyurethane at the beginning of
`line -- at the beginning of column 13.
` Q. And that's in which patent?
` A. I can check that. This is -- I'm
`looking at the '505. You can also find it in 09:18
`the '456.
` Q. So polyurethanes are disclosed as
`materials that can be used for the balloon in
`both the '505 and '456 patents?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form. 09:18
`
`Page 20
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` A. And finishing at what line, please?
` Q. 6.
` (Document review.)
` A. Now, would you please repeat your 09:20
`question?
` Q. The specification of the '505 patent
`teaches that, "If desired, the material for the
`expandable structure," or the balloon, "can be
`selected to exhibit generally elastic properties 09:20
`like latex"?
` A. I can read here that the material for
`the structure can be selected to exhibit
`generally elastic properties, like latex?
` Q. So the answer is yes? 09:21
` A. Yes.
` Q. And does the '456 patent have a
`similar disclosure?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And continuing on, the '505 patent 09:21
`says, "Alternatively, the material can be
`selected to exhibit less elastic properties,
`like silicone," correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And there's a similar disclosure in 09:21
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` A. It refers here to the expandable
`structure, and the expandable structure, if you
`create it with balloons, the answer will be yes,
`but here it refers to the expandable structure. 09:19
` Q. One of the materials suggested for the
`balloons or expandable structures used for the
`inventions of the '505 patent are polyethylene
`terephthalate, right?
` A. Yes, referred to as PET here. 09:19
` Q. And PET, or polyethylene
`terephthalate, is also disclosed in the '456
`patent, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, look at column 13, line 5 of the 09:19
`'505 patent.
` A. I'm there.
` Q. The specification of the '505 patent
`teaches, "If desired, the material for the
`structure can be selected to exhibit general 09:20
`elastic properties, like latex," correct?
` A. If you would give me a minute to read
`the -- you want me to read from what line to
`what line?
` Q. Starting at line 5. 09:20
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`the '456 patent?
` A. Yes.
` Q. So the '505 and '456 patents reference
`that either elastic or inelastic materials can 09:22
`be used for the balloon or the expandable
`structure, correct?
` A. I think the statement is suggestive.
`This is not what it says. If you go to column
`13 and line 18, it says, "Generally speaking, 09:22
`for use in treating bone, providing relatively
`inelastic..."
` Q. Okay, but it also discloses elastic
`materials, correct?
` A. "Relatively inelastic" means elastic. 09:22
` Q. So is the answer yes?
` A. Could you pose the question again,
`please?
` Q. The '505 and '456 patents also
`disclose using elastic materials for the balloon 09:23
`structure, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What are non-distensible materials?
` A. Where do you read it?
` Q. I'm just asking you. 09:23
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`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 6
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` A. Material that are indistensible.
` Q. Does that mean inelastic?
` A. What it means to me when I read
`something indistensible, something that you 09:23
`cannot stretch. So it refers more to the
`deformation, you cannot stretch it.
` Q. So it's not stretchable?
` A. I would refer to the Webster, what
`exactly the Webster says. 09:24
` Q. Okay. Well, I don't have Webster's
`here sitting with me today. I'm just asking
`your understanding as a person that's offered a
`declaration in this area of non-distensible.
` So earlier you said you cannot stretch 09:24
`it. So that means it's not stretchable,
`correct?
` A. I'm not really sure I used this term
`in my declaration. Can you tell me where I used
`it in my declaration? 09:24
` Q. I'm not asking you about your
`declaration. I'm just asking you what a
`non-distensible material is.
` A. So do you have a dictionary here?
` Q. I don't have a dictionary. Do you 09:24
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`are elastic or somewhat relatively inelastic.
`This is -- these are the materials referred to
`in the '505 or '456.
` Q. Well, so let me help a little bit. 09:27
` A. Yes.
` Q. Why don't you back up to column 12 on
`the prior page.
` A. Yes.
` Q. And we talked about a number of 09:27
`materials on column 12, correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. And they go up to on column 13
`of the '505 patent, correct?
` A. Yes. 09:27
` Q. Okay. What is an example of a
`inelastic material that's disclosed there in the
`'505 patent?
` MR. FAHMI: Object to the form.
` A. If I refer back to 12, column 12, line 09:28
`64, it lists a number of materials, and it
`refers to an expandable structure, and this
`expandable structure can be made out of vinyl,
`nylon, polyethylene and the materials listed
`here. 09:29
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`have an understanding, as a person that's
`offered a declaration in this case on various
`materials, what a non-distensible material is?
` A. Let me explain how I came across this 09:25
`word here. Like in one of the patents rarely
`refers to foldable, I think indistensible, but
`I'm -- I need to have the patents in front of
`me. I would -- I would say "indistensible"
`means something that you cannot stretch. 09:25
` Q. What is an example of a material
`disclosed in the '456 and '505 patents that you
`cannot stretch?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. I'm not really sure I can find this 09:26
`information in column 13, but basically what I
`see here in column 13, a list of material. So
`for the selection what I can also see is
`referring to generally elastic properties, like
`latex, or this is something like you can 09:27
`stretch. And what I see here is relatively
`inelastic properties of the expandable
`structure.
` And generally -- let me ask you the
`question. In general, you can -- these material 09:27
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` In terms of elasticity, it refers to
`latex as being generally elastic.
` Q. Okay. Well, my question wasn't about
`what was generally elastic but -- what was 09:29
`generally inelastic, but maybe this might be the
`most efficient way to do it. Is vinyl generally
`elastic or inelastic?
` MR. FAHMI: Object to the form.
` A. This question cannot be answered 09:29
`fairly because there are different grades,
`grades of vinyl, and I need to look at the
`material specifications.
` Q. So when you see the disclosure of
`vinyl, in your opinion, it could refer to either 09:30
`elastic or inelastic forms of vinyl?
` A. What I'm reading here is -- what I'm
`reading here, expandable structure, including
`vinyl, nylon, polyethylene and so on.
` Q. I understand that you're reading that, 09:30
`but my question is when you see the disclosure
`of vinyl, in your opinion, could it refer to
`either elastic or inelastic forms of vinyl?
` A. I read it, I read it in the context of
`expandable structure, and I read here that the 09:30
`
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`(877) 702-9580
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`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 7
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`expandable structure can be made out of the
`material listed here, including vinyl.
` Q. Is vinyl elastic or inelastic, Dr.
`Baroud? 09:30
` A. Vinyl is elastic.
` Q. Is nylon elastic or inelastic?
` A. The answer, vinyl is somewhat elastic.
`Vinyl is somewhat elastic. Yes.
` Q. How about nylon? 09:31
` A. Somewhat elastic.
` Q. Polyethylenes?
` A. Somewhat elastic.
` Q. Ionomer?
` A. I'm not familiar with that material. 09:31
` Q. Okay. How about -- I'm going on to
`the next page -- polyurethane?
` A. Somewhat elastic.
` Q. Polyethylene terephthalate?
` A. Somewhat elastic. 09:31
` Q. Is PET also inelastic?
` A. Somewhat elastic.
` Q. So you would say it's not inelastic?
` A. What I'm saying -- what I'm saying
`is -- rephrase the question, please. 09:31
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`exhibit a sheet that includes sheet 9 of U.S.
`Patent '505.
` (Exhibit 1031, sheet 9 of 13 of the
` '505 patent, marked for identification, as 09:34
` of this date.)
`BY MS. FRANTZEN:
` Q. So, for the record, Exhibit 1031 is
`sheet 9 of 13 of the '505 patent. Do you agree
`with that? 09:34
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form.
` A. Would you mind, please, repeat the
`question?
` Q. Sure. Is Exhibit 1031 sheet 9 of 13
`of the '505 patent? 09:34
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form.
` A. It appears to me that this is a copy
`of sheet 9 out of 13 of the '505.
` Q. Can you see the balloon portion of
`Figure 19 of the '505 patent? Do you see that 09:35
`balloon portion?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Can you use this blue highlighter to
`color in the balloon portion on Figure 19 of the
`'505 patent as reflected in Exhibit 1031. 09:35
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` Q. Sure. Is polyethylene terephthalate
`inelastic?
` A. I would -- the answer would be
`somewhat inelastic. 09:32
` Q. Somewhat inelastic. Okay. So are you
`saying, when you say somewhat inelastic, you
`mean, just generally speaking, inelastic?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form.
` A. What I mean exactly here is what I 09:32
`read here, "relatively inelastic properties."
`So this is here column 13, line 21, this is how
`it refers to it and this is, I think,
`representative of the physical properties,
`relatively inelastic properties. 09:32
` Q. And are you referring to polyethylene
`terephthalate, or PET, when you make that
`statement?
` A. I think I did -- I did comment on
`polyethylene. It's somewhat -- somewhat 09:33
`inelastic.
` Q. Let's look at Figure 19 of the '505
`patent. Do you have it?
` A. Yes, I have it.
` Q. I'm actually going to mark as an 09:34
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` GAMAL BAROUD
` A. You are referring to the '505,
`correct?
` Q. Yes.
` A. And we are agreed on equating the 09:36
`balloon as being the expandable structure,
`correct?
` Q. Well, in your opinion, is the balloon
`the expandable structure?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form. 09:36
` A. What I read, what I read here it
`refers to an expandable structure. This is what
`I read here. In this case, it refers to an
`expandable structure bonded to an outer catheter
`tube and to an inner catheter tube. This is 09:36
`what I read here.
` Q. And is that a reference to Figure 19?
`What are you reading?
` A. I'm reading here on column 3, starting
`from 41, 19. 09:36
` Q. Okay. So is the expandable structure
`in Figure 19 a balloon?
` A. This question cannot be fairly
`answered without a clear definition of what a
`balloon is. 09:37
`
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`STRYKER EXHIBIT 1040, pg. 8
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`IPR2014-01433
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` Q. You don't know what a balloon is?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection to form.
` A. I know a whole class of different
`balloons. 09:37
` Q. Okay. And is a balloon depicted in
`Figure 19?
` A. What I -- what I -- what I read here
`in this specification, it refers to it as Figure
`19; it refers to it as an expandable structure. 09:37
` Q. Okay. But you're not sure if Figure
`19 is a balloon?
` MR. FAHMI: Objection. Form.
` A. So I prefer to work with the
`specification, and the specification of the '505 09:38
`refers to an expandable structure.
` Q. Can you highlight in blue what your
`understanding of what the expandable structure
`is in Figure 19.
` A. Sure. Sure. 09:38
` The specification on column 10, column
`10, line 16, refers to 110 as the expandable
`structure. So, so basically the 110, this is
`what's referred to as the expandable structure.
`This is here. 09:40
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` GAMAL BAROUD
`catheter tube, correct?
` A. Let me explain. According to the
`specification, the inner tube is elastic. The
`inner tube can be expanded as well. So let me 09:45
`be very clear. So in my -- what I read here is
`in 19, so what I read here is that the
`expandable structure as being 110.
` Q. Is there an inflatable structure in
`Figure 19? 09:45
` A. Inflatable structure? What I read
`here is that this is an expandable structure.
` Q. Is there an inflatable structure in
`Figure 19?
` A. Could you please define "inflatable"? 09:46
` Q. Do you know what an "inflatable"
`means?
` A. It can have different meanings, in my
`opinion.
` Q. Is there a portion of Figure 19 that 09:47
`inflates?
` A. What I read here is expandable. Let
`me explain to you. A tent is inflatable and
`expandable. So there is a very, very specific
`meaning to these words, and what I read here is 09:47
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` Q. Can