Kenneth Andres
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA
` SOUTHERN DIVISION
`
` CASE NO.: 2:14-CV-00091
`
` CABLZ, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff/Counterclaim
` Defendant,
`
` vs.
`
` CHUMS, INC.,
`
` Defendant/Counterclaim
` Plaintiff.
` _______________________________________/
`
` VIDEOTAPED
` DEPOSITION OF: Kenneth Andres and ASA
`
` DATE TAKEN: July 17, 2014
`
` TIME: 1:36 p.m. - 3:55 p.m.
`
` PLACE: Embassy Suites
` 8978 International Drive
` Orlando, Florida 32819
`
` REPORTED BY: Lori Francis, RPR, FPR and
` Notary Public
`
`Freedom Court Reporting, Inc
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`877-373-3660
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`Page 1
`
`CABLZ, INC. EX 2059
`
`
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ALABAMA
` SOUTHERN DIVISION
`
` CASE NO.: 2:14-CV-00091
`
` CABLZ, INC.,
`
` Plaintiff/Counterclaim
` Defendant,
`
` vs.
`
` CHUMS, INC.,
`
` Defendant/Counterclaim
` Plaintiff.
` _______________________________________/
`
` VIDEOTAPED
` DEPOSITION OF: Kenneth Andres and ASA
`
` DATE TAKEN: July 17, 2014
`
` TIME: 1:36 p.m. - 3:55 p.m.
`
` PLACE: Embassy Suites
` 8978 International Drive
` Orlando, Florida 32819
`
` REPORTED BY: Lori Francis, RPR, FPR and
` Notary Public
`
`Freedom Court Reporting, Inc
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`877-373-3660
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`Page 1
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`CABLZ, INC. EX 2059
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`2
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`Kenneth Andres
`
` 1 APPEARANCES:
`
` 2
`
` APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF/
` 3 COUNTERCLAIM DEFENDANT:
`
` 4 JOSEPH S. BIRD, III, ESQUIRE
` Bradley, Arant, Boult, Cummings, LLP
` 5 1819 Fifth Avenue North
` Birmingham, Alabama 35203
` 6 jbird@babc.com
`
` 7
`
` 8
`
` APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT/
` 9 COUNTERCLAIM PLAINTIFF:
`
` 10 LANDON A. ALLRED, ESQUIRE
` Stoel Rives, LLP
` 11 201 South Main Street
` Suite 1100
` 12 Salt Lake City, Utah 84111
` laallred@stoel.com
`
` 13
`
` 14
`
` 15 APPEARING ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN
` SPORTFISHING ASSOCIATION AND
` 16 KENNETH ANDRES:
`
` 17 MARC M. GORELNIK, ESQUIRE
` Law Offices of Marc M. Gorelnik
` 18 8042 Terrace Drive
` El Cerrito, California 94530
` 19 marc@gorelniklaw.com
`
` 20
`
` 21
`
` 22
`
` 23 ALSO PRESENT: Shawn Lane, Videographer
`
` 24
`
` 25
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`3
`
` 1 I N D E X
`
` 2 EXAMINATIONS
`
` 3 DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS FURTHER
`
` 4 Mr. Bird 6 92
`
` 5 Mr. Allred 60
`
` 6
`
` 7 Certificate of Reporter........................... 95
`
` 8 Certificate of Oath............................... 96
`
` 9
`
` 10 EXHIBITS
`
` 11 Page Line
`
` 12 ASA Exhibit 1................................ 5 2
`
` 13 (Notice to take 30(b)(6) deposition of ASA)
`
` 14 ASA Exhibit 2................................ 5 3
`
` 15 (Subpoena to testify in a civil action)
`
` 16 ASA Exhibit 3................................ 14 2
`
` 17 (New product showcase literature)
`
` 18 ASA Exhibit 4................................ 22 6
`
` 19 (Voting ballot for 2009 new product showcase)
`
` 20 ASA Exhibit 5................................ 26 2
`
` 21 (ASA web site page)
`
` 22 ASA Exhibit 6................................ 26 4
`
` 23 (ICAST web site page)
`
` 24 ASA Exhibit 7................................ 32 25
`
` 25 (ICAST web site page)
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` 1 ASA Exhibit 8................................ 37 8
`
` 2 (ICAST web site page)
`
` 3 ASA Exhibit 8A............................... 41 12
`
` 4 (Composite of ICAST 2009 new product showcase
`
` 5 entry forms)
`
` 6 ASA Exhibit 9................................ 44 16
`
` 7 (ASA web site page)
`
` 8 ASA Exhibit 10............................... 46 9
`
` 9 (ASA web site page)
`
` 10 ASA Exhibit 11............................... 48 18
`
` 11 (ASA web site page)
`
` 12 ASA Exhibit 12............................... 50 4
`
` 13 (ASA web site page)
`
` 14 ASA Exhibit 13............................... 61 15
`
` 15 (Color photographs of Mark Sosin)
`
` 16 ASA Exhibit 14............................... 66 21
`
` 17 (ICAST 2007 buyers' guide)
`
` 18 ASA Exhibit 15............................... 67 23
`
` 19 (Color photographs of Mark Sosin)
`
` 20 ASA Exhibit 16............................... 78 14
`
` 21 (2009 winners in the new product showcase)
`
` 22 ASA Exhibit 17............................... 84 10
`
` 23 (Color photograph)
`
` 24
`
` 25
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`8
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` 1 THE WITNESS: No, none that I found.
`
` 2 MR. BIRD: Okay. Thank you.
`
` 3 BY MR. BIRD:
`
` 4 Q Who is your employer, please, sir?
`
` 5 A American Sportfishing Association.
`
` 6 Q What is your position?
`
` 7 A I'm the trade show director.
`
` 8 Q How long have you been in that position?
`
` 9 A For three years.
`
` 10 Q So when did you start?
`
` 11 A October 2007.
`
` 12 Q Okay. Three years ago would have been 2011.
`
` 13 Were you in another position at ASA prior to 2011?
`
` 14 A I was.
`
` 15 Q What was that position?
`
` 16 A I was the trade show associate.
`
` 17 Q Okay. Who was -- who was the director at
`
` 18 the time?
`
` 19 A Maria Del Valle.
`
` 20 Q Is she still at ASA?
`
` 21 A No, she's not.
`
` 22 Q Do you know where she is located?
`
` 23 A I do not.
`
` 24 Q How do you spell her name?
`
` 25 A D-E-L-V-A-L-L-E. The first name is Maria,
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` 1 M-A-R-I-A.
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`9
`
` 2 Q Did you work closely with her on the trade
`
` 3 show?
`
` 4 A I did.
`
` 5 Q And were you involved in the new product
`
` 6 showcase in 2009 as the associate?
`
` 7 A I was.
`
` 8 Q Okay. Now, what does -- what does the trade
`
` 9 show director at ASA do?
`
` 10 A I oversee the trade show for the
`
` 11 association. It's produced annually.
`
` 12 Q That's ICAST?
`
` 13 A Correct.
`
` 14 Q What does ICAST stand for?
`
` 15 A International Convention of Allied
`
` 16 Sportfishing Trades.
`
` 17 Q And is it the world's largest sportfishing
`
` 18 trade show?
`
` 19 A It is.
`
` 20 Q All right. Is there anybody that comes in
`
` 21 second? I mean, you-all are far and away the leader?
`
` 22 A We're the biggest that we know. That's what
`
` 23 we say.
`
` 24 Q When was ASA founded, to your knowledge?
`
` 25 More than 50 years ago?
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` 1 A Yes, that's correct.
`
` 2 Q Has ICAST been going on as a trade show for
`
` 3 more than 50 years?
`
` 4 A ICAST -- the trade show for the industry has
`
` 5 been going on for longer than 50 years.
`
` 6 Q It might have had a different name?
`
` 7 A That's correct.
`
` 8 Q And tell me about the membership of ASA.
`
` 9 What -- who belongs?
`
` 10 A The trade association is made up mostly of
`
` 11 manufacturers.
`
` 12 Q And do you know approximately how many
`
` 13 members belong to ASA?
`
` 14 A An approximate amount of about 650 members.
`
` 15 Q All right. So the members --
`
` 16 A That's currently.
`
` 17 Q Okay.
`
` 18 A Yeah.
`
` 19 Q Has that been an approximate number that's
`
` 20 been good for several years?
`
` 21 A Yes.
`
` 22 Q It hasn't gone way up or way down?
`
` 23 A No, it hasn't. It's probably right around
`
` 24 that area.
`
` 25 Q And so the members or the manufacturers who
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` 1 join in order to display their goods at ICAST and do
`
` 2 other things that the trade association does?
`
` 3 A Yeah. The membership does exhibit -- most
`
` 4 of the membership does exhibit at the trade show, yes.
`
` 5 Q Does -- but there are many other people that
`
` 6 come besides members, correct?
`
` 7 A That's correct.
`
` 8 Q And do you know the attendance this year?
`
` 9 A Total attendance is over 11,000.
`
` 10 Q Wow. And so can you break it down roughly
`
` 11 into categories as to how many people represent
`
` 12 manufacturers and how many people represent retail
`
` 13 organizations and the media and that sort of thing?
`
` 14 A Sure. I'd say about -- for ASA we're at 480
`
` 15 manufacturers or exhibitors at the show for this year.
`
` 16 The attendance-wise, you're looking at 3,500 exhibitors
`
` 17 who are part -- who are badged to attend the show or
`
` 18 exhibit at the show. Retailers, we have about 1,800
`
` 19 retailers who attend the show and 1,400 wholesalers.
`
` 20 Q When you say 1,800 retailers, does that mean
`
` 21 1,800 organizations or does that mean 1,800 people?
`
` 22 A Yeah, people.
`
` 23 Q Okay. And that's a little down from what it
`
` 24 had been in prior years? I had seen the number 2,200.
`
` 25 A That's -- well, you have to add those two
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`12
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` 1 together. As far as buying groups are concerned,
`
` 2 buyers, these numbers are the highest ever.
`
` 3 Q Okay. Good, good. All right.
`
` 4 Now, many of your members come from
`
` 5 overseas, don't they?
`
` 6 A Yes, they do.
`
` 7 Q Are they spread throughout the world?
`
` 8 A They are.
`
` 9 Q Not just even North America but Europe and
`
` 10 the other major continents?
`
` 11 A Correct.
`
` 12 Q Do buyers come from all over the world?
`
` 13 A They do.
`
` 14 Q So it's -- ASA is a little bit of a
`
` 15 misnomer. Even though it's American Sportfishing
`
` 16 Association, it's really a completely international
`
` 17 organization?
`
` 18 A It is, the trade show.
`
` 19 Q Right. But the members -- are the members
`
` 20 all American or -- I thought you said some of the
`
` 21 members were international.
`
` 22 A Some of the members are international, yes.
`
` 23 Q Okay. Let's talk about the new product
`
` 24 showcase.
`
` 25 A Uh-huh.
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`13
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` 1 Q You're on videotape, Mr. Andres, and I want
`
` 2 you to -- this videotape, I hope, will be played at the
`
` 3 trial in this case, so please tell the judge and the
`
` 4 jury in Alabama what the new product showcase is.
`
` 5 A The new product showcase is a feature at the
`
` 6 trade show where companies can put a product in a
`
` 7 conspicuous location on the show floor that is new for
`
` 8 that calendar year.
`
` 9 Q And is this the flagship feature of ICAST?
`
` 10 A It's been said that, yes.
`
` 11 Q I mean, is that -- that's been in your
`
` 12 literature and I seen some of the documents that you
`
` 13 produced today.
`
` 14 A Yes.
`
` 15 Q And by flagship feature, do you mean that
`
` 16 this is -- the presentation of new products is one
`
` 17 thing that really drives interest in coming to ICAST?
`
` 18 A Sure.
`
` 19 Q And obviously retail buyers are looking for
`
` 20 new and innovative products in order to drive
`
` 21 excitement in their stores and sell goods, right?
`
` 22 A (Witness nods head.)
`
` 23 Q You'll need to answer out yes or no.
`
` 24 A Yes, yes.
`
` 25 Q Now, I'm going to mark as Exhibit 3 a
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` 1 document that you produced.
`
`14
`
` 2 (ASA Exhibit 3 marked for identification.)
`
` 3 BY MR. BIRD:
`
` 4 Q This bears the Bates label ASA 0006 through
`
` 5 8. I'm sorry, through 9. It says new product showcase
`
` 6 at the top. This document was produced by you last
`
` 7 week. Tell us what this is, please, sir.
`
` 8 A The new product showcase forms that we
`
` 9 provide to our exhibitors that give information about
`
` 10 the new product showcase, including the entry form and
`
` 11 the rules and regulations.
`
` 12 Q And this was the one for 2009?
`
` 13 A That is correct.
`
` 14 Q And I'm just going to -- I'm going to try to
`
` 15 pick out some words in the first paragraph on the
`
` 16 left-hand column on the first page and just read along
`
` 17 with me. I'm not going to read the whole thing, but
`
` 18 would you say that the new product showcase reflects a
`
` 19 creative spirit?
`
` 20 A In what sense?
`
` 21 Q In the sense that -- it's your phrase. What
`
` 22 I'm -- what I'm first trying to get to is that it -- I
`
` 23 guess, that it represents creative product development.
`
` 24 A Are you referring to something that I said?
`
` 25 Q Yeah. In the second line it says creative
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` 1 spirit.
`
` 2 A Yeah.
`
`15
`
` 3 Q I'm not -- this isn't a -- you know, I don't
`
` 4 think it's a complicated question. It's just, does
`
` 5 that refer to the new products that are being
`
` 6 presented?
`
` 7 A I would say so. I mean, it's certainly part
`
` 8 of the new product showcase.
`
` 9 Q And a little bit further down it says that,
`
` 10 quote, "The New Product Showcase, sponsored by ESPN
`
` 11 Outdoors/BASS, is ICAST's flagship feature and
`
` 12 recognizes your innovation and rewards your
`
` 13 contribution to fishing through our best of show new
`
` 14 product awards competition," closed quote.
`
` 15 Is that right?
`
` 16 A That's what it says, yes.
`
` 17 Q The whole focus of the new product showcase
`
` 18 is on innovation; is it not?
`
` 19 A That's correct.
`
` 20 Q Let's talk -- go down the left column just a
`
` 21 little bit. It says under "Vie for the Prestigious
`
` 22 Best of Show Awards," and under that heading it says,
`
` 23 "During the first day of the show, buyers and
`
` 24 media-editorial attendees who visit the new product
`
` 25 showcase will evaluate each new product and grade them
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`16
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` 1 based on their innovation, execution, workmanship and
`
` 2 practicality. The product with the most votes in each
`
` 3 of the 17 categories will be awarded best of show for
`
` 4 that category."
`
` 5 Did I read that correctly?
`
` 6 A That's correct. That's what it says.
`
` 7 Q Now, let's talk about -- we've talked about
`
` 8 buyers a little bit, but let's focus in on them.
`
` 9 A Uh-huh.
`
` 10 Q Are buyers -- tell us who buyers are. What
`
` 11 are -- who are they?
`
` 12 A So we classify them into two categories:
`
` 13 Retailers, and that's independent to big-box retailers,
`
` 14 something like your Cabellas or Wal-Mart, all the way
`
` 15 down to an independent retailer that's someone in their
`
` 16 local home shop. And then we also have the wholesaler
`
` 17 buyer, which is a distributor level, where they
`
` 18 warehouse the products or goods and distribute it there
`
` 19 from their location to retailers.
`
` 20 Q Is it your experience that buyers are often
`
` 21 looking for new products when they come to ICAST?
`
` 22 A Sure, yes.
`
` 23 Q All right. And do they find new products
`
` 24 and are orders written for new products at ICAST?
`
` 25 A They can be. I think a lot of relationships
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`17
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` 1 are -- with new products, new companies that come, they
`
` 2 don't know who they are, but they do want to see the
`
` 3 new products so -- yes, so there is the possibility of
`
` 4 writing new orders there.
`
` 5 Q Ultimately whether the sale occurs at ICAST
`
` 6 or not, it's a sales-oriented show, correct?
`
` 7 A Correct.
`
` 8 Q It's people trying to sell products and
`
` 9 buyers coming to identify products to sell?
`
` 10 A Just like the trade show is a meeting place
`
` 11 for manufacturers to meet with buyers.
`
` 12 Q And is -- is ICAST -- let me put it this
`
` 13 way: Is -- are the ICAST best of show awards the
`
` 14 preeminent fishing industry product awards in the
`
` 15 world?
`
` 16 A I couldn't say that they are. I think it's
`
` 17 a trade show highlights new product at the -- for the
`
` 18 trade show. I mean, I'm sorry, the new product
`
` 19 showcase highlights new product at the trade show, yes.
`
` 20 Q Do winners sometimes view their public
`
` 21 relations and media campaigns around winning awards at
`
` 22 new product showcase?
`
` 23 A Yes.
`
` 24 Q And let's talk about another aspect of that
`
` 25 paragraph. We were talking about media-editorial
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`18
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` 1 attendees as judges. Let me get this straight.
`
` 2 There are buyers and there are media people,
`
` 3 two categories of judges, correct?
`
` 4 A That's correct.
`
` 5 Q And how do people -- how does somebody
`
` 6 become qualified to judge as a media representative?
`
` 7 A Well, in order to vote as a media-editorial
`
` 8 person, they have to be qualified as one and what they
`
` 9 have to go through is a validation process, a process
`
` 10 or verification process. They would apply for
`
` 11 registration and media editorial under that
`
` 12 media-editorial category, and they would be verified by
`
` 13 providing us with information that we requested that
`
` 14 would say that they have -- that they are indeed who
`
` 15 they say they are, so a by line, a video or something
`
` 16 that they could produce to us.
`
` 17 Q And so -- let me ask you this: Was a
`
` 18 gentleman named Mark Sosin a member of the credential
`
` 19 media as a judge in 2009?
`
` 20 A I do not recall. He has been at -- I do not
`
` 21 recall 2009 -- I don't know if he voted.
`
` 22 Q Do you know him, Mr. Sosin?
`
` 23 A I do know him. I do know who he is, yes.
`
` 24 Q Did you know him before 2009 when you were
`
` 25 the trade show associate?
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` 1 BY MR. BIRD:
`
`20
`
` 2 Q But, generally, the people who are in the
`
` 3 media are very knowledgeable about fishing -- they're
`
` 4 knowledgeable in the boating and fishing industry; is
`
` 5 that correct?
`
` 6 A That's correct.
`
` 7 Q Do buyers from the following stores attend
`
` 8 ICAST? Let me just ask you some stores that are in
`
` 9 North Alabama where this case will be tried.
`
` 10 A Okay.
`
` 11 Q Academy?
`
` 12 A You're just talking about across the board,
`
` 13 or are you talking about specifically in 2009?
`
` 14 Q 2009.
`
` 15 A I don't know if they were, but they have
`
` 16 attended before.
`
` 17 Q Also Dick's Sporting Goods?
`
` 18 A Yes.
`
` 19 Q And Hibbetts?
`
` 20 A I'm not familiar with Hibbetts.
`
` 21 Q What about Wal-Mart?
`
` 22 A Yes.
`
` 23 Q So -- let me just ask it this way: Are
`
` 24 buyers in these larger organizations the specialists
`
` 25 within their companies for identifying which new
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` 1 category and down the line?
`
`22
`
` 2 A No. Each individual ballot has all the
`
` 3 categories on them, so the ballot is completed so that
`
` 4 it --
`
` 5 Q We're about to get to that.
`
` 6 (ASA Exhibit 4 marked for identification.)
`
` 7 BY MR. BIRD:
`
` 8 Q Let me mark -- I'm going to show you Exhibit
`
` 9 4 to your deposition, which is here.
`
` 10 A Okay.
`
` 11 Q Just for the record, this is ASA 0001 that
`
` 12 says at the top -- well, you tell me, Mr. Andres. What
`
` 13 is this document, please?
`
` 14 A This is the -- this is the voting ballot
`
` 15 that we had for 2009 for the new product showcase.
`
` 16 Q It lists all the categories and one of those
`
` 17 is apparel; is that correct?
`
` 18 A That's correct.
`
` 19 Q This ballot would have been given to the
`
` 20 individuals who were going through the new product
`
` 21 showcase area in order to decide which products to vote
`
` 22 for?
`
` 23 A Those who are qualified to vote, correct.
`
` 24 Q Right. And let me just go back to Exhibit 3
`
` 25 for a moment. At the top of the right-hand column it
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`23
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` 1 says that -- essentially that exhibitors will not be
`
` 2 permitted in the new product showcase during the voting
`
` 3 period. Do you see that?
`
` 4 A That's correct.
`
` 5 Q Was that new for that year?
`
` 6 A It was new for -- yes, it was new for that
`
` 7 year, 2009.
`
` 8 Q Okay.
`
` 9 A Yes.
`
` 10 Q Now, let's just set the scene.
`
` 11 A Okay.
`
` 12 Q The products are in a dedicated area that is
`
` 13 marked as the new product showcase; is that correct?
`
` 14 A That's correct.
`
` 15 Q And there's, I think, like a 24-hour period
`
` 16 in which judges can come through and look at all the
`
` 17 products that are entered?
`
` 18 A Yeah. It's within a 24-hour period, but
`
` 19 yes.
`
` 20 Q And so during that 24-hour period,
`
` 21 exhibitors or entrants into the new product showcase
`
` 22 were not allowed to be in that area; is that correct?
`
` 23 A That is correct, during the voting period.
`
` 24 Q And that just prevents somebody from
`
` 25 promoting their product, button-holing somebody,
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`24
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` 1 campaigning, trying to -- trying to out do somebody
`
` 2 else?
`
` 3 A Well, doing any of those things during the
`
` 4 voting period at the show, correct.
`
` 5 Q So -- so in this dedicated area for the new
`
` 6 product showcase entrants, the products are laid out.
`
` 7 And are they displayed as though they would be in a
`
` 8 retail setting?
`
` 9 A We ask for the products point of sale, as
`
` 10 they would be point of sale.
`
` 11 Q Right. Point of sale means as they would be
`
` 12 in the store?
`
` 13 A In a retail location, yes, in the packaging.
`
` 14 Q Right. Are there other special displays
`
` 15 that are available or just anything that would be
`
` 16 available only at the point of sale.
`
` 17 A We allow the product to be as it is point of
`
` 18 sale. We also allow the product to be displayed
`
` 19 outside if they would like to do that with the
`
` 20 packaging behind it and also a tent card that's
`
` 21 provided to provide information to the buyer or the
`
` 22 media-editorial person regarding what the product name
`
` 23 is and the company who is providing the product, the
`
` 24 product description and manufacturer's suggested retail
`
` 25 price and their booth location.
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`25
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` 1 Q So the purpose of these rules in the
`
` 2 structure you've just outlined is to make it where the
`
` 3 product itself is being examined by people who don't
`
` 4 have anybody pushing them or trying to campaign to get
`
` 5 their vote; is that right?
`
` 6 A That's correct.
`
` 7 Q It's just a -- as much as you can, you're
`
` 8 trying to purify the product evaluation process?
`
` 9 A As pure as we can, right.
`
` 10 Q There's a lot of selling done outside,
`
` 11 right?
`
` 12 A There's no doubt about it.
`
` 13 Q Okay. Thank you.
`
` 14 This may be sort of implied from what we
`
` 15 just said. What you're trying to do is have the
`
` 16 judging done solely on the merit of the products
`
` 17 themselves?
`
` 18 A Without -- without any kind of influence
`
` 19 from -- without any outside influence, yes.
`
` 20 Q All right. And is it a secret ballot?
`
` 21 A It is -- the ballots are dropped into a box
`
` 22 and they're manually tabulated at that time.
`
` 23 Q Were you involved in the counting?
`
` 24 A I was overseeing the counting, yes.
`
` 25 Q Now, let's talk about -- let me mark first
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` 1 Exhibit 5.
`
`26
`
` 2 (ASA Exhibit 5 marked for identification.)
`
` 3 MR. BIRD: And Exhibit 6.
`
` 4 (ASA Exhibit 6 marked for identification.)
`
` 5 BY MR. BIRD:
`
` 6 Q If you'll let me read for the record,
`
` 7 Exhibit 5 bears ASA 00216 to 218 and Exhibit 6 bears
`
` 8 the number ASA 00539 to 541. Now, I'm not really going
`
` 9 to apologize for how small this print is because it's
`
` 10 how it was produced to us, but I've got my middle-aged
`
` 11 glasses on here. And if you can -- I'm just going to
`
` 12 ask you a few questions here if I can get my eyes to
`
` 13 focus.
`
` 14 It says that -- in the first paragraph, that
`
` 15 there were over 2,200 buyers and over 500 media
`
` 16 representatives who were -- those were going to be the
`
` 17 judges, correct?
`
` 18 A Those are the potential judges, yes.
`
` 19 Q People eligible to be judges?
`
` 20 A Correct. But in 2009, we limited it to one
`
` 21 vote per a buying entity.
`
` 22 Q Okay. That was new for that year?
`
` 23 A It was --
`
` 24 Q Okay.
`
` 25 A -- or media outlet, I should say, as well.
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` 1 Q Okay. It says in the -- I think the fourth
`
` 2 line that these people, these -- all these folks that
`
` 3 you just -- we just talked about are gathered to see
`
` 4 the latest innovations in tackle gear and apparel and
`
` 5 network with the global sportfishing community.
`
` 6 Do you see that?
`
` 7 A Yeah. I know -- I recognize it. I just
`
` 8 don't see it.
`
` 9 Q It's about -- it's hard to read --
`
` 10 A Uh-huh.
`
` 11 Q -- because it's a little bit small, but it
`
` 12 just says -- beginning on the -- on the third line it
`
` 13 says, Including over 2,200 buyers and over 500 media
`
` 14 representatives are gathered to see the latest
`
` 15 innovations in tackle gear and apparel and network with
`
` 16 the global sportfishing community.
`
` 17 Do you see that?
`
` 18 A I do. I see that now.
`
` 19 Q Again, that's a focus on the innovations
`
` 20 that are coming out, right?
`
` 21 A That's right.
`
` 22 Q And in the next paragraph it says that --
`
` 23 I'm just going to read it because it will probably be
`
` 24 quicker. This year, the 52nd year of ICAST, the new
`
` 25 product showcase, the trade show's flagship event, was
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` 1 more competitive than ever.
`
`28
`
` 2 Do you see where I read from that?
`
` 3 A Yes.
`
` 4 Q Did I read it correctly?
`
` 5 A Yes.
`
` 6 Q Is it something that you wrote at the time?
`
` 7 A No, sir, it's not.
`
` 8 Q Okay. Did it come from your -- your boss?
`
` 9 A Yeah, at that time, yes.
`
` 10 Q But that's what you-all felt at the time?
`
` 11 A That's the part of the marketing that we had
`
` 12 to get retailers to come to the show.
`
` 13 Q Right. Now, it also says that there were
`
` 14 208 exhibiting companies in the new product showcase.
`
` 15 Do you see that?
`
` 16 A Yes.
`
` 17 Q It says that -- it says 600 tackle products
`
` 18 and accessories were entered.
`
` 19 A Uh-huh.
`
` 20 Q All right. Now, it's not -- look at Exhibit
`
` 21 6.
`
` 22 A Okay.
`
` 23 Q In the second paragraph there, it just says
`
` 24 600 new products from 208 companies.
`
` 25 A Okay.
`
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`29
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` 1 Q In other words, the 600 products weren't all
`
` 2 tackle, right?
`
` 3 A That's correct.
`
` 4 Q The 600 products refer to all categories?
`
` 5 A That's correct.
`
` 6 Q All right. That's what I thought.
`
` 7 And these two documents list the winners of
`
` 8 the best of show awards. And who won the award in 2009
`
` 9 at ICAST for best of show in the apparel category?
`
` 10 A Cablz.
`
` 11 Q Now, had Cablz ever attended ICAST before?
`
` 12 A Not prior to 2009.
`
` 13 Q And had -- was Cablz a first entry -- was --
`
` 14 how would you say it? This was the first time Cablz
`
` 15 had ever entered the new product showcase also?
`
` 16 A That's correct.
`
` 17 Q And it's not common, but it does happen
`
` 18 occasionally, that first entrants do win the category,
`
` 19 right?
`
` 20 A I think that's everybody's surprise that
`
` 21 they won. Yes, that's true.
`
` 22 Q That Cablz specifically won or that the
`
` 23 new --
`
` 24 A Everybody wants to win.
`
` 25 Q Right.
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` 1 A Yeah.
`
`30
`
` 2 Q And just, in general, a lot of -- all of
`
` 3 these manufacturers that are there in the trade show
`
` 4 itself, they're there to sell products, right?
`
` 5 A That's correct.
`
` 6 Q And is there a -- is there a self-selection
`
` 7 process for who enters products in the new product
`
` 8 showcase?
`
` 9 A How do you mean?
`
` 10 Q Well, some people -- some exhibitors don't
`
` 11 enter the new product showcase, correct?
`
` 12 A Correct. That's true.
`
` 13 Q And would you say that it's generally the
`
` 14 companies who feel like they have something new and
`
` 15 innovative will enter and so it's sort of a
`
` 16 self-selection process as to who's in that product
`
` 17 showcase?
`
` 18 A That's correct, yes.
`
` 19 MR. ALLRED: Objection, lacks foundation.
`
` 20 MR. BIRD: All right.
`
` 21 BY MR. BIRD:
`
` 22 Q That's your experience?
`
` 23 A Has been.
`
` 24 Q And so there are a lot of products at ICAST
`
` 25 that aren't in the new product showcase?
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`31
`
` 1 A At the trade show? At ICAST?
`
` 2 Q Right, right.
`
` 3 A That's correct.
`
` 4 Q Now, do you know if another eyewear retainer
`
` 5 has ever won a best of show award at ICAST?
`
` 6 A During my time, no.
`
` 7 Q So that means Chums has never won a best of
`
` 8 show award at ICAST?
`
` 9 A No, they have not.
`
` 10 Q And has a company called Croakies ever won a
`
` 11 best of show award at ICAST?
`
` 12 A Not to my knowledge.
`
` 13 Q Have Chums or Croakies ever entered a
`
` 14 product in the new product showcase?
`
` 15 A I cannot be for certain.
`
` 16 Q Let's talk about sort of the scope of the
`
` 17 whole sho
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