Oracle Corporation, et al. vs. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
`4/4/2015
`Jeffrey S. Chase, Ph.D., Vol. 2
`
`
`
`· · ·· UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`
`
`· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·CASE NO. IPR2014-01207, IPR2014-01209, IPR2014-01197
`
`
`
`· · · · · ·· PATENT 7,015,147 B2; 6,425,035
`
`·- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
`
`·ORACLE CORPORATION, NETAPP INC., and· ··:
`
`·HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.,· · · · ··:
`
`
`
`· · · · · · Petitioner,· · · · · · · · · ·:
`
`
`
`· · · · ·· vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ··:
`
`·CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, INC.,· · · · · · · ·:
`
`
`
`· · · · · · Patent Owner.· · · · · · · · ·:
`
`·- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·· JEFFREY S. CHASE, Ph. D.
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · Saturday, April 4, 2015
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · VOLUME II
`
`
`
`· · · · · ·· Videotaped deposition of JEFFREY S. CHASE,
`
`·Ph.D., a witness herein, called for examination by
`
`·counsel for the Patent Owner in the above-entitled
`
`·matter, pursuant to notice, the witness affirming
`
`·before MAREN FAWCETT, RPR, Notary Public in and for
`
`·the State of North Carolina, taken at the Washington
`
`·Duke Inn, 3001 Cameron Boulevard, Durham, North
`
`·Carolina at 9:17 a.m., on Saturday, April 4, 2015,
`
`·and the proceedings being taken down by Stenotype by
`
`·MAREN FAWCETT, and transcribed under her direction.
`
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` CROSSROADS EXHIBIT 2055
`Oracle Corp., et al v. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
` IPR2014-01207 and IPR2014-1209
`
`
`4/4/2015
`Jeffrey S. Chase, Ph.D., Vol. 2
`
`
`
`· · ·· UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`
`
`· · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·CASE NO. IPR2014-01207, IPR2014-01209, IPR2014-01197
`
`
`
`· · · · · ·· PATENT 7,015,147 B2; 6,425,035
`
`·- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
`
`·ORACLE CORPORATION, NETAPP INC., and· ··:
`
`·HUAWEI TECHNOLOGIES CO., LTD.,· · · · ··:
`
`
`
`· · · · · · Petitioner,· · · · · · · · · ·:
`
`
`
`· · · · ·· vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ··:
`
`·CROSSROADS SYSTEMS, INC.,· · · · · · · ·:
`
`
`
`· · · · · · Patent Owner.· · · · · · · · ·:
`
`·- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - X
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·· JEFFREY S. CHASE, Ph. D.
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · Saturday, April 4, 2015
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · VOLUME II
`
`
`
`· · · · · ·· Videotaped deposition of JEFFREY S. CHASE,
`
`·Ph.D., a witness herein, called for examination by
`
`·counsel for the Patent Owner in the above-entitled
`
`·matter, pursuant to notice, the witness affirming
`
`·before MAREN FAWCETT, RPR, Notary Public in and for
`
`·the State of North Carolina, taken at the Washington
`
`·Duke Inn, 3001 Cameron Boulevard, Durham, North
`
`·Carolina at 9:17 a.m., on Saturday, April 4, 2015,
`
`·and the proceedings being taken down by Stenotype by
`
`·MAREN FAWCETT, and transcribed under her direction.
`
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`Oracle Corp., et al v. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
` IPR2014-01207 and IPR2014-1209
`
`
`
`Oracle Corporation, et al. vs. Crossroads Systems, Inc.
`4/4/2015
`Jeffrey S. Chase, Ph.D., Vol. 2
`
`227
`
`·1·
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`·APPEARANCES:
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· On behalf of the Petitioner:
`
`·3·
`
`
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`· · · · · · GREG H. GARDELLA, ESQ.
`
`·4·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Oblon, McClelland, Maier & Neustadt, LLP
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · 1940 Duke Street
`
`·6·
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`
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`· · · · · · Alexandria, VA··22314
`
`·7·
`
`
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`· · · · · · (703) 413-3000
`
`·8·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Email: ggardella@oblon.com
`
`·9·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·· - and -
`
`10·
`
`
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`· · · · · · AARON Y. HUANG, ESQ.
`
`11·
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`
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`· · · · · · Weil, Gotshal & Manges, LLP
`
`12·
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`
`
`· · · · · · 201 Redwood Shores Parkway
`
`13·
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`
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`· · · · · · Redwood Shores, CA··94065
`
`14·
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`
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`· · · · · · (650) 802-3213
`
`15·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Email: aaron.huang@weil.com
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· On behalf of the Patent Owner:
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · SCOTT CROCKER, ESQ.
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · ·· - and -
`
`19·
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`
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`· · · · · · JOHN ADAIR, ESQ.
`
`20·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Sprinkle IP Law Group
`
`21·
`
`
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`· · · · · · 1301 W. 25th Street, Suite 408
`
`22·
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`
`
`· · · · · · Austin, TX··78705
`
`23·
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`
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`· · · · · · (512) 366-7308
`
`24·
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`
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`· · · · · · Email: scrocker@sprinklelaw.com
`
`25·
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`
`
`· · · · · · Email: jadair@sprinklelaw.com
`
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`4/4/2015
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`·1·
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`·APPEARANCES:
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· On behalf of the Patent Owner:
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · RUSSELL T. WONG, ESQ.
`
`·4·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Wong, Cabello, Lutsch,
`
`·5·
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`
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`· · · · · · Rutherford & Brucculeri, LLP
`
`·6·
`
`
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`· · · · · · 20333 SH 249, Suite 600
`
`·7·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Houston, TX··77070
`
`·8·
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`
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`· · · · · · (832) 446-2420
`
`·9·
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`
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`· · · · · · Email: rwong@counselip.com
`
`10·
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`·
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`11·
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`
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`· · ·· Also Present:··Eun Hae Park, Esq., Oracle
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · Neal Tibrewala, L5 Software Group
`
`13·
`
`
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`· · · · · · · · · · · Rob Hahn, Videographer
`
`14·
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`·
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`15·
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`·
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`16·
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`·
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`17·
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`·
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`18·
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`20·
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`229
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`·1·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · ·· C O N T E N T S
`
`
`
`·THE WITNESS· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ··EXAMINATION·2·
`
`·3·
`
`·JEFFREY S. CHASE, Ph.D.
`
`·4·
`
`· ·· By Mr. Crocker· · · · · · · · · · · · · ··230, 427
`
`·5·
`
`· ·· By Mr. Gardella· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ··426
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`·6·
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`
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · -oOo-
`
`·7·
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`
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`· · · · · · · · · ·· E X H I B I T S
`
`
`
`·· EXHIBIT· · · · · ··DESCRIPTION· · · · · ··IDENTIFIED·8·
`
`·9·
`
`·Exhibit 2042· · · ··Drawing· · · · · · · · · · · ·365
`
`10·
`
`·(Exhibit retained by Mr. Crocker.)
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · -oOo-
`
`12·
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`·
`
`13·
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`·
`
`14·
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`·
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`15·
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`·
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`16·
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`·
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`17·
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`·
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`18·
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`·
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`19·
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`·
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`20·
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`·
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`21·
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`·
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`22·
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`·
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`23·
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`24·
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`25·
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`·
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`230
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`·1·
`
`
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`· · · · · · · · · P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · (Mr. Adair and Mr. Huang not
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · present.)
`
`·4·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE VIDEOGRAPHER:··We're now on the record.
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Here begins Volume II, media number one, in the
`
`·6·
`
`
`
`· · ·· deposition of Dr. Jeffrey S. Chase.
`
`
`
`
`
`· · · · · · Today's date April 4th, 2015.··Time on the·7·
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · ·· video monitor is 0835.
`
`·9·
`
`
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`· · · · · · Would the court reporter please swear in
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the witness so we can begin.
`
`11·
`
`·Whereupon,
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · · · JEFFREY S. CHASE, Ph.D.,
`
`13·
`
`·was called as a witness by counsel for the Patent
`
`14·
`
`·Owner and, having duly affirmed to tell the whole
`
`15·
`
`·truth before the Notary Public, was examined and
`
`16·
`
`·testified as follows:
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · ·· EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR THE PATENT OWNER
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`19·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Dr. Chase, welcome back.
`
`20·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Thank you.
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Do you understand you're still under oath
`
`22·
`
`·for today's part of the deposition?
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`24·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Have you discussed today's -- or, I'm
`
`25·
`
`·sorry, yesterday's proceeding with anyone?
`
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`231
`
`·1·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Maybe just a little bit with my wife.
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Have you spoken with counsel who are
`
`·3·
`
`·present here today?
`
`·4·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·No.
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Did you review anything since we ended
`
`·6·
`
`·yesterday evening?
`
`·7·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·I glanced at a couple of patents.
`
`·8·
`
`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·Which patents did you glance at?
`
`·9·
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`
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`· · ·· A.· ·I looked primarily at the -- at the
`
`10·
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`·Crossroads patent specification.
`
`11·
`
`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·The '035 and '147?
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·I don't recall which one I looked at, but
`
`13·
`
`·they're all the same.
`
`14·
`
`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·Anything other than the Crossroads patents?
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·No.
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·If you would get the Bergsten patent in
`
`17·
`
`·front of you, which I believe is the '209.
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`19·
`
`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·And if you would turn to column 7 at lines
`
`20·
`
`·20 and 22.
`
`21·
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`
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`22·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·I'm sorry, I have the wrong cite down here.
`
`23·
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`·It's actually at 29.··I couldn't find it in here.··So
`
`24·
`
`·at column 7, line 29 it says:··"The OS 20 controls
`
`25·
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`·the overall operation of the storage controller,
`
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`232
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`·1·
`
`·including emulation data flow, caching of data in the
`
`·2·
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`·local memory 24, control of data mirroring and error
`
`·3·
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`·recovery."··Did I read that correctly?
`
`·4·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Is it your understanding that the OS 20 of
`
`·6·
`
`·Bergsten performs the mapping of the host logical
`
`·7·
`
`·address to the internal logical address and then to
`
`·8·
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`·the physical addresses?
`
`·9·
`
`
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`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Objection to form.
`
`10·
`
`
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`· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··That mapping, which we
`
`11·
`
`
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`· · ·· discussed in detail yesterday, could be
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· implemented by a combination of hardware and
`
`13·
`
`
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`· · ·· software.··I don't recall that the Bergsten
`
`14·
`
`
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`· · ·· specification details specifically what
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· combination, but certainly it could be
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· implemented in its entirety in the OS.
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Is there anything in Bergsten that suggests
`
`19·
`
`·to you that it could be done either partially or
`
`20·
`
`·wholly by hardware?
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Certainly it would be the responsibility of
`
`22·
`
`·the OS or operating system to initialize and manage
`
`23·
`
`·the maps.
`
`24·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·And then, continuing on down on column 7 at
`
`25·
`
`·line 35, it says:··"In particular, the emulation
`
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`·1·
`
`·drivers 21 receive read and write requests from the
`
`·2·
`
`·host computer 2 and convert the read and write
`
`·3·
`
`·requests into a format recognized by the OS 20."··Did
`
`233
`
`·4·
`
`·I read that correctly?
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`·6·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So the purpose of the emulation driver is
`
`·7·
`
`·to convert read and write commands to a format
`
`·8·
`
`·recognized by the operating system of the storage
`
`·9·
`
`·controller, correct?
`
`
`
`
`
`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Objection, form.10·
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··I believe the text is read
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· and write requests into a format recognized by
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the OS.
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So the purpose of the emulation driver is
`
`16·
`
`·to convert read and write requests to a format
`
`17·
`
`·recognized by the operating system of the storage
`
`18·
`
`·controller, correct?
`
`19·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Objection, form.
`
`20·
`
`· · · · · ·
` THE WITNESS:··That's what it says here.
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· And I think it's important to understand that
`
`22·
`
`
`
`· · ·· since Bergsten discloses that a number of
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· different protocols could be used for the host
`
`24·
`
`
`
`· · ·· to communicate with the storage apparatus that
`
`25·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the amount of conversion that might be required
`
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`·1·
`
`
`
`· · ·· or the nature of that conversion would depend on
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· what that format is.··I think in the common case
`
`·3·
`
`
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`· · ·· where we have a standard command format
`
`·4·
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`
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`· · ·· encapsulated over protocols, such as Fibre
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Channel for example, that conversion would
`
`·6·
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`
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`· · ·· involve primarily deencapsulating the commands
`
`·7·
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`
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`· · ·· and transmitting the commands to the operating
`
`·8·
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`
`
`· · ·· system without the framing and various other
`
`·9·
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`
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`· · ·· information that's necessary to transmit those
`
`10·
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`
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`· · ·· commands reliably across the network.
`
`11·
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`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So what you're saying is the level of
`
`13·
`
`·conversion might differ depending on the protocol
`
`14·
`
`·that the host device is using to communicate with the
`
`15·
`
`·storage controller; is that right?
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes, it is of course possible that the
`
`17·
`
`·protocol would involve some different command format
`
`18·
`
`·that does require some conversion, but Bergsten
`
`19·
`
`·certainly doesn't require that and that might not be
`
`20·
`
`·the case.
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Does Bergsten describe any other
`
`22·
`
`·functionality of the emulation drivers?
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Well, what it says here in column 7 at line
`
`24·
`
`·32 I believe is that the emulation drivers provide
`
`25·
`
`·communication of data between the storage controller
`
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`·1·
`
`·and the local host computer via communication path 7.
`
`·2·
`
`·So I understand that the emulation drivers are
`
`·3·
`
`·responsible for interacting with whatever device
`
`·4·
`
`·interfaces to that communication path and managing
`
`·5·
`
`·whatever data transfer is required in order to --
`
`·6·
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`·whatever data transfer and other formatting or
`
`·7·
`
`·protocol information is required in order to transmit
`
`·8·
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`·and receive data from that data path.
`
`·9·
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`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·And by "device" you mean host device?
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Sorry.··I was -- when I said "device," I
`
`11·
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`·meant an interface device that would be attached to
`
`12·
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`·the hardware, such as shown in Figure 3, item 14, for
`
`13·
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`·example.··It says "host device I/F," which is
`
`14·
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`·interface, and that might, for example, be a device
`
`15·
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`·that has some logic that manages some of the
`
`16·
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`·functions of transmitting data to and from the host.
`
`17·
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`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So is it your testimony that the emulation
`
`18·
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`·drivers communicate with the host device interface
`
`19·
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`·component of the storage controller?
`
`20·
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`
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`· · ·· A.· ·The emulation drivers would include
`
`21·
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`·whatever software is necessary to communicate with
`
`22·
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`·the host device interface and whatever functions --
`
`23·
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`·whatever other functions are necessary to present
`
`24·
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`·data between the host interface and the operating
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`25·
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`·system in a format recognized by the operating system
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`·1·
`
`·as it says here.
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·And then that host device interface 14 is
`
`·3·
`
`·what communicates with the actual host device,
`
`·4·
`
`·referring to Figure 3 that you were referencing?
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Well, of course, it's a combination of the
`
`·6·
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`·emulation driver, the host device interface 14 and
`
`·7·
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`·the transport medium 7 that together implement that
`
`·8·
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`·communication.
`
`·9·
`
`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·With the host device?
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·With the host device.
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So other than converting read and write
`
`12·
`
`·requests to a format recognized by the operating
`
`13·
`
`·system in the storage controller and providing
`
`14·
`
`·communication of data between the storage controller
`
`15·
`
`·and the local host computer via communication path 7,
`
`16·
`
`·does Bergsten describe any other functionality of the
`
`17·
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`·emulation driver?
`
`18·
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`
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · (Mr. Huang enters room.)
`
`19·
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`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·I believe that pretty much captures it.··If
`
`20·
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`·you like, I'd be happy to look through the Bergsten
`
`21·
`
`·patent here to see if there's any other disclosure
`
`22·
`
`·pertaining to the emulation driver that I've
`
`23·
`
`·forgotten.
`
`24·
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`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Certainly, if you need to reference the
`
`25·
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`·patent any more to answer the question, do so.
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`·1·
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`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·I think I'll let my answer stand, that
`
`·2·
`
`·pretty much sums it up.
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Earlier you corrected my question to you
`
`·4·
`
`·making a distinction between read and write requests
`
`·5·
`
`·and read and write commands.··I believe I used the
`
`·6·
`
`·word "commands" and you changed it to "requests"?
`
`·7·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Is there a distinction between request -- a
`
`·9·
`
`·read and write request and a read and write command?
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Objection to form.
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··When we say "request," we're
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· referring to -- I would understand that term to
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· refer to both a command that's being transmitted
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· and any network protocol state -- for example,
`
`15·
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`
`
`· · ·· headers and so on -- that's necessary to send
`
`16·
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`
`
`· · ·· that command reliably over the network.
`
`17·
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`
`
`· · · · · · For example, in all of these systems that
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· we're talking about it's quite typical to use
`
`19·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the standardized SCSI command set to access
`
`· · ··
` these storage devices and that SCSI command set
`20·
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· can be encapsulated over a wide variety of
`
`22·
`
`
`
`· · ·· network transports.··When you run -- access a
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Fibre Channel device through FCP, you're using a
`
`24·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Fibre Channel transport protocol and a SCSI
`
`25·
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`
`
`· · ·· command that's encapsulated within that Fibre
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`
`
`
`
`· · ·· Channel transport protocol frame.··And of course·1·
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· that Fibre Channel transport protocol can run
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · ·· over -- can actually run over ethernet today or
`
`
`
`
`
`· · ·· run over a variety of different transports.··So,·4·
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· depending on all the layers of the protocol
`
`·6·
`
`
`
`· · ·· stack, there may be a great deal of other
`
`·7·
`
`
`
`· · ·· information included within a request or within
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the network's transmission that contains a
`
`·9·
`
`
`
`· · ·· request.
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · So I understand the emulation driver is
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · ·· primarily isolating the operating system and
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· other machinery in the storage apparatus from
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the details of how that communication actually
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· occurs.··It's all encapsulated within the
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· emulation driver.
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · But it is true that nowadays we run Fibre
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Channel over ethernet and we encapsulate
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· ethernet frames over Fibre Channel and a variety
`
`19·
`
`
`
`· · ·· of different ways we can combine these various
`
`20·
`
`
`
`· · ·· protocols to manage reliable communication over
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· whatever medium is available.
`
`22·
`
`· · · · · ·
` BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So, referring back to that Figure 3, if the
`
`24·
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`·communication path 7 is Fibre Channel, the emulation
`
`25·
`
`·driver will convert read and write requests from
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`·1·
`
`·final -- from Fibre Channel to the format recognized
`
`·2·
`
`·by the OS, correct?
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Could I have the question
`
`·4·
`
`
`
`· · ·· back, please?
`
`
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE REPORTER:··So, referring back to that·5·
`
`·6·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Figure 3, if the communication path 7 is Fibre
`
`·7·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Channel, the emulation driver will convert read
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · ·· and write requests from Fibre Channel to the
`
`·9·
`
`
`
`· · ·· format recognized by the OS, correct?
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Yes.··And, of course, that
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · ·· might or might not involve any translation of
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the actual command.··For example, if the command
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· is a standard SCSI command and the Bergsten
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· apparatus uses SCSI on the other side or
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· understands SCSI commands internally, then no
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· command conversion would be required.
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·What do you mean by "the Bergsten apparatus
`
`19·
`
`·uses SCSI on the other side"?
`
`20·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·If we refer to Figure 3, you can see that
`
`21·
`
`·next to the host device interface 14 there is a
`
`22·
`
`·storage device interface 15 that interfaces to local
`
`
`
`·storage devices across a transport medium 8.··And,23·
`
`24·
`
`·similarly, a variety of different protocols or
`
`25·
`
`·command sets might be used to issue commands to those
`
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`·1·
`
`·storage devices.··A variety of protocols might be
`
`
`
`·used to issue those commands as requests.··And what·2·
`
`·3·
`
`·I'm saying is that in the industry today it's
`
`·4·
`
`·actually quite standard that many different kinds of
`
`·5·
`
`·devices, including perhaps these local external
`
`·6·
`
`·storage devices, would understand the SCSI command
`
`·7·
`
`·set.··And in that case the role of the storage
`
`·8·
`
`·controller would be primarily to forward the commands
`
`·9·
`
`·and perform whatever address translation is required
`
`10·
`
`·in accordance with the maps which we discussed
`
`11·
`
`·yesterday.
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Bergsten can support more than one type of
`
`13·
`
`·storage interface, correct?
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·You're referring to the storage device
`
`15·
`
`·interface 15 --
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Yes.
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·-- in Figure 3?··Yes.
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So the storage controller in Bergsten can
`
`19·
`
`·have a host device interface that uses different
`
`20·
`
`·protocols or command sets than what the storage
`
`21·
`
`·device interface on the other side of Bergsten uses?
`
`22·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Bergsten does not exclude that possibility.
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·So, for example, you could have a main
`
`24·
`
`·frame with ESCON talking to the storage controller
`
`25·
`
`·and then that same storage controller could talk to
`
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`·1·
`
`·SCSI devices using the SCSI protocol?
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·I suppose that would be possible.
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·If the standard SCSI command set is used on
`
`·4·
`
`·both the host device interface and the storage device
`
`·5·
`
`·interface, so on both the host end and the storage
`
`·6·
`
`·end, why is it that there would be no conversion
`
`·7·
`
`·required internally within Bergsten?
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Objection to form.
`
`·9·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Certainly if we transmitted
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · ·· command sets that were entirely different on the
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · ·· medium 7 to and from the host and the medium 8
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· to and from the local external storage devices,
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· according to Figure 3, then a substantial amount
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· of conversion would be required, but if the
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· command sets are similar -- it's still the case
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· that various kinds of translation and conversion
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · ·· might be required, but it would primarily
`
`18·
`
`
`
`· · ·· involve the virtualization mapping and
`
`19·
`
`
`
`· · ·· translation mapping from the logical storage
`
`20·
`
`
`
`· · ·· spaces that the host sees and the underlying
`
`21·
`
`
`
`· · ·· physical storage spaces on the external storage
`
`22·
`
`
`
`· · ·· devices that the storage apparatus manages.··And
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· it might be the case that a block in the storage
`
`24·
`
`
`
`· · ·· space that the host sees would actually be
`
`25·
`
`
`
`· · ·· replicated on multiple devices on the storage
`
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`·1·
`
`
`
`· · ·· devices accessed through the path 8 connected to
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· the apparatus; or there might be varying degrees
`
`·3·
`
`
`
`· · ·· of redundancy; or the blocks might be
`
`·4·
`
`
`
`· · ·· distributed across those devices in some way.
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· And all of these different functions which would
`
`·6·
`
`
`
`· · ·· be quite common in storage systems of this
`
`·7·
`
`
`
`· · ·· nature would require various levels of mapping
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · ·· and translation, certainly of the block
`
`·9·
`
`
`
`· · ·· addresses.··It might involve converting a
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · ·· command into multiple commands to the storage
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · ·· devices and various other things that might be
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· required, but if the command sets broadly were
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· very similar then other kinds of conversion
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· would typically not be required.
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·You mentioned blocks that the host sees.
`
`17·
`
`·Are you referring to the request -- requested
`
`18·
`
`·addressing space?
`
`19·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I said blocks in the storage space
`
`20·
`
`·that the host sees.··And when I said "storage space,"
`
`
`
`·I think I was using a term from the Crossroads patent21·
`
`22·
`
`·that we are presenting a logical -- virtual local
`
`23·
`
`·storage to the host as a -- most likely as a logical
`
`24·
`
`·device and that's what I was referring to as the
`
`25·
`
`·storage space that the host sees.
`
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`·1·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·How about with respect to Bergsten?
`
`·2·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·As we discussed yesterday with respect to
`
`·3·
`
`·both Bergsten and Kikuchi, the address the host
`
`·4·
`
`·supplies, what we call the requested address, could
`
`·5·
`
`·be in a variety of forms.··Neither Bergsten nor
`
`·6·
`
`·Kikuchi discloses in detail what the requested
`
`·7·
`
`·address might look like other than to note that this
`
`·8·
`
`·host interface and host medium 7 could be a Fibre
`
`·9·
`
`·Channel medium or a SCSI medium or any one of a
`
`10·
`
`·variety of other transport networks or media that
`
`11·
`
`·were common in the industry.··And the requested
`
`12·
`
`·address could have a variety of different forms, but
`
`13·
`
`·in the discussion in Bergsten and Kikuchi it simply
`
`14·
`
`·refers to it as a number.
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · So we might -- excuse me, it doesn't -- it
`
`16·
`
`·doesn't disclose what the specific form of that
`
`17·
`
`·requested address is.··So whether the storage space
`
`18·
`
`·that the host sees is divided into multiple logical
`
`19·
`
`·devices, which might be common, or whether it's one
`
`20·
`
`·flat block space isn't disclosed in any detail.
`
`· · ··
` Q.· ·If you'd refer to column 3, line 14.
`21·
`
`22·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Pardon me, column 3, line 14?
`
`23·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·Yes, sir.
`
`24·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`25·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·And I believe we referenced this yesterday,
`
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`·1·
`
`·but at line 14 it says that the storage controller
`
`·2·
`
`·emulates a local storage array for the host computer
`
`·3·
`
`·system which it services?
`
`·4·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
`
`·5·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·And how is this not a description in
`
`·6·
`
`·Bergsten about what the local host sees?
`
`
`
`
`
`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Objection, form, foundation.·7·
`
`·8·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · THE WITNESS:··Well, when we discussed this
`
`·9·
`
`
`
`· · ·· yesterday, I think I said that I understand that
`
`10·
`
`
`
`· · ·· statement to be saying that the storage that the
`
`11·
`
`
`
`· · ·· host sees that the host uses that storage in the
`
`12·
`
`
`
`· · ·· same way and perceives it in the same way that
`
`13·
`
`
`
`· · ·· it might perceive a local storage array.··And I
`
`14·
`
`
`
`· · ·· believe that's the concept that the Crossroads
`
`15·
`
`
`
`· · ·· patent refers to as virtual local storage.
`
`16·
`
`
`
`· · · · · · BY MR. CROCKER:
`
`17·
`
`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·And in Bergsten how does the host use that
`
`18·
`
`·storage in the same way as it would a local storage
`
`19·
`
`·array?
`
`20·
`
`
`
`· · ·· A.· ·Well, if we refer to Figure 1, we could see
`
`21·
`
`·that the hosts are also connected to the transport
`
`22·
`
`·medium 7 and access the storage controller through
`
`23·
`
`·this medium 7.··And that medium could be a standard
`
`24·
`
`·storage interconnect, such as a SCSI transport or
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`25·
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`·Fibre Channel network, and a host could use it to
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`·1·
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`·access a local storage array.··And what it means to
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`·2·
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`·say that it uses it in the same way is that the
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`·3·
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`·commands or requests that the host sends to the
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`·4·
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`·storage controller over 7 would be broadly the same
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`·5·
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`·or even identical to the commands and requests that
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`·6·
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`·it would send to a local storage array over the same
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`·7·
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`·medium.··So then, in fact, it is indistinguishable to
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`·8·
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`·the host whether it is talking to a local storage
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`·9·
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`·array or a remote storage controller labeled 3-1 here
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`10·
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`·in Figure 1.
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`11·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·If you would turn to page 78 of your
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`12·
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`·declaration from the 1207 IPR.
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`13·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
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`14·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·It would be the second sentence of
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`15·
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`·paragraph 39.··Each storage controller is --
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`· · ·· A.· ·I'm sorry.··Page 78, paragraph 139.16·
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`17·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·Correct.
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`18·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Okay.
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`19·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·The second sentence.
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`20·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
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`21·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·"Each storage controller is capable of
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`22·
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`·emulating storage device access from the viewpoint of
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`23·
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`·a host computer system, i.e., the host uses it in the
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`24·
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`·same manner as a local disk."··Is that what you were
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`25·
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`·referring to or just discussing with me?
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`·1·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
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`·2·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·And you have cited to column 5, line 65
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`·3·
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`·through column 6, line 1?
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`·4·
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`
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
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`·5·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·And so in your parenthetical -- not
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`·6·
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`·parenthetical, your sentence in paragraph 139, "The
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`·7·
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`·host uses it in the same manner as a local disk,"
`
`·8·
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`·what is the "it" you were referring to?
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`·9·
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`
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`· · ·· A.· ·The host uses the storage controller in the
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`10·
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`·same manner as a local disk.··And what I meant by
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`11·
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`·"uses" is that it interacts with the storage
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`12·
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`·controller in the same manner as it interacts with a
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`13·
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`·local disk.
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`14·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·Is using it different than it appearing as
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`15·
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`·a local disk?
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`16·
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`
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`· · ·· A.· ·No.
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`17·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·So, using Bergsten, does a host treat the
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`18·
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`·storage that it sees as its local storage device?
`
`· · ··
` A.· ·When you say "the storage that it sees,"
`19·
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`20·
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`·you're referring to storage on a remote Bergsten
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`21·
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`·storage controller or accessed through a remote
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`22·
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`·Bergsten storage controller.
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`23·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·That appears as I believe what you -- that
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`24·
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`·appears as a local storage device.
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.··I understand.··Yeah, you said25·
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`·1·
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`·"treats," so I don't -- I don't -- I like to be
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`·2·
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`·careful about what you might mean by "treats."
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`·3·
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`· · · · · · I think in general what happens is that the
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`·4·
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`·act of actually attaching to the storage might be
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`·5·
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`·different.··There may be a special initialization
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`·6·
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`·that's required to initially set up the connection to
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`·7·
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`·this virtual local storage, if I may.··But once the
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`·8·
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`·storage is attached, the host uses it in the same
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`·9·
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`·manner, treats it the same, it appears the same as
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`10·
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`·local storage; and that is, all functions that the
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`11·
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`·host and its operating system support for local
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`12·
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`·storage would work for the remote storage as well
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`13·
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`·without any modification.
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`14·
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`· · · · · · MR. GARDELLA:··Thank you.
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`15·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·Dr. Chase, let me hand you what is -- what
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`16·
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`·has been marked as Exhibit 1014 to all three of the
`
`
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`·IPRs that we're here for 1197, 1207 and 1209.··Do you17·
`
`18·
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`·recognize this document?
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`19·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes, I most certainly recognize this
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`20·
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`·document.
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`21·
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`
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`· · ·· Q.· ·And what is this document?
`
`22·
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`· · ·· A.· ·This document is a paper that I and some
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`23·
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`·collaborators wrote in 2002 I believe.
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`24·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·If you would turn to page 2.
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`25·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
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`·1·
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`· · ·· Q.· ·And under 2.1 which is referred to as
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`·2·
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`·"network storage performance," do you see that?
`
`·3·
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`· · ·· A.· ·Yes.
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`·4·
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`
`
`· · ·· Q.· ·In the second sentenc
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