IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND
`TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`[Page 509]
`
`IPR2014-01102
`Case No:
`U.S. Patent No: 5,228,077
`_________________________________
`
`Case No:
`
`IPR2014-01103
`
`5,552,917
`U.S. Patent No:
`_________________________________
`Case No:
`IPR2014-01104
`U.S. Patent No:
`5,414,761
`__________________________________
`
`Case No:
`
`IPR2014-01106
`
`5,255,313
`U.S. Patent No:
`__________________________________
`Case No:
`IPR2014-01109
`U.S. Patent No:
`7,831,930
`___________________________________
`
`Deposition of ALEX COOK, taken
`before LAURA MUKAHIRN, CSR, RPR, CRR, at
`One South Dearborn Street, in the City of
`Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, commencing
`at 9:00 o'clock a.m. on the 17th day of
`June, 2015.
`
`VOLUME III
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 1
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`[Page 509]
`
`IPR2014-01102
`Case No:
`U.S. Patent No: 5,228,077
`_________________________________
`
`Case No:
`
`IPR2014-01103
`
`5,552,917
`U.S. Patent No:
`_________________________________
`Case No:
`IPR2014-01104
`U.S. Patent No:
`5,414,761
`__________________________________
`
`Case No:
`
`IPR2014-01106
`
`5,255,313
`U.S. Patent No:
`__________________________________
`Case No:
`IPR2014-01109
`U.S. Patent No:
`7,831,930
`___________________________________
`
`Deposition of ALEX COOK, taken
`before LAURA MUKAHIRN, CSR, RPR, CRR, at
`One South Dearborn Street, in the City of
`Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, commencing
`at 9:00 o'clock a.m. on the 17th day of
`June, 2015.
`
`VOLUME III
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 1
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 510]
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`OSTROLENK FABER LLP
`1180 Avenue of the Americas
`New York, New York 10036
`(212)382-0700
`BY:
`MR. KEITH BARKAUS
`-AND-
`SIDLEY AUSTIN
`1001 Page Mill Road
`Building 1
`Palo Alto, California 94304
`(650)565-7006
`BY:
`MR. PETER H. KANG
`MR. FERENC PAZMANDI
`Appeared on behalf of Universal
`Remote Control, Inc.;
`
`GREENBERG TRAURIG, LLP
`77 West Wacker Drive
`Suite 2500
`Chicago, Illinois 60601
`(312) 456-8451
`BY:
`MR. ERIC J. MAIERS
`Appeared on behalf of Universal
`Electronics, Inc.
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`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 2
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 511]
`
`I N D E X
`
`Examinations
`Cross-Examination
`By Mr. Barkaus
`Direct Examination
`By Mr. Maiers
`E X H I B I T S
`No.
`Exhibit 1046
`(Universal Remote Control Exhibit
`1046 Trial No. IPR 2014-1146)
`Exhibit 2029
`(Universal Electronics Exhibit 2029
`Trial No. IPR 2014-1146)
`Exhibit 1003
`(Universal Remote Control Exhibit
`No. 1003 Trial No. IPR 2014-1146)
`Exhibit 1001
`(Universal Remote Control Exhibit
`No. 1001 Trial No. IPR 2014-1146)
`Exhibit 1047
`(Universal Remote Control Exhibit
`1047 Trial No. IPR 2014-1146)
`Exhibit 1005
`(Universal Remote Control Exhibit
`1005 Trial No. IPR 2014-1146)
`
`Page
`512
`727
`
`Page
`513
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`521
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`592
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`(Witness previously
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 3
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 512]
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`sworn.)
`ALEX COOK
`called as a witness herein, having been
`first duly sworn, was examined and
`testified further as follows:
`Cross-Examination
`By Mr. Barkaus
`Good morning, Mr. Cook.
`Q.
`Good morning, Mr. Barkaus.
`A.
`You recall that you're still
`Q.
`under oath, sir?
`A.
`Yes.
`
`(Document marked as
`Exhibit No. 1046 for
`identification.)
`
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`I'm going to hand to you
`Q.
`Okay.
`an exhibit which we've marked Universal
`Remote Control Exhibit 1046.
`And,
`actually, I just noticed -- Will you hand
`that back to me.
`This is currently marked
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1046,
`Trial No. IPR 2014-1109.
`And we're going
`to change that to be Universal Remote
`Control Exhibit 1046 Trial No. IPR
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 4
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 513]
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`2014-1146.
`
`(Document remarked as
`Exhibit No. 1046 for
`identification.)
`
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`So do you have that document in
`front of you now, Mr. Cook?
`A.
`I do.
`And as you can see,
`Q.
`All right.
`it's -- on the top right-hand it says
`Amended Notice of Deposition of Alex Cook;
`is that correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`On the left-hand side it
`says -- Well, let's look at the case
`number.
`IPR 2014-1146 and U.S. Patent No.
`8,243,207.
`Do you see that?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And if you turn to Page 2,
`there's a listing of the trial numbers or
`the case numbers that you're giving
`testimony in:
`Case Nos. IPR 2014-1102, IPR
`2014-1103, IPR 2014-1104, IPR 2014-1106.
`And you gave testimony in those matters
`yesterday.
`Do you recall doing that?
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 5
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 514]
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`Yes.
`A.
`And, finally, IPR
`Okay.
`Q.
`2014-1109, and you gave testimony in that
`matter on Monday.
`Do you recall doing
`that?
`
`I do.
`A.
`And you understand that
`Okay.
`Q.
`today we're going to ask you to give some
`testimony on IPR 2014-1146.
`Do you
`understand that?
`A.
`Yes.
`And for -- To
`Great.
`Q.
`Okay.
`make things easier on both of us, when I
`refer to U.S. Patent No. 8,243,207, I'm
`going to use the term the '207 patent.
`Does that work for you?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`You'll understand what that
`means.
`And then when I refer to the IPR as
`a whole, can I refer to that as the 1146
`IPR?
`Do you understand that?
`A.
`Yes.
`I'd like to start
`Good.
`Q.
`Okay.
`off by talking a little bit about your time
`at Scientific Atlanta which was between
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 6
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 515]
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`1983 and 1996; is that correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And you previously mentioned
`that while you were working there, you
`worked on set-top boxes as well as remote
`controls, both single device remote
`controls and universal remote controls; is
`that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`Okay.
`While you were at
`Scientific Atlanta, did you do any work on
`VCRs?
`
`Form.
`Objection.
`MR. MAIERS:
`When you say did I
`THE WITNESS:
`do any work on VCRs, are you saying did I
`design or develop VCRs?
`What's your
`question?
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Did
`Q.
`Let's go with that one.
`you design or develop VCRs at Scientific
`Atlanta?
`No, I did not.
`A.
`Did you do any work related to
`Q.
`VCRs at Scientific Atlanta?
`A.
`During that period of time VCRs
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 7
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 516]
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`in home environment were common, and so I
`became very familiar with VCRs.
`And so
`from that sense in understanding the
`environment of a typical cable subscriber
`and the various pieces of equipment that
`they had, yes, I became very familiar with
`VCRs.
`
`But Scientific Atlanta did not
`Q.
`make any VCRs; is that correct?
`A.
`No.
`But definitely impacted
`the other products we did make.
`Q.
`Did -- Have you ever had any
`design and/or development experience in DVD
`players?
`Design or development
`A.
`experience in DVD players, no, not
`directly.
`Did you have design or
`Q.
`development experience in DVD players
`indirectly?
`In the effect, again, on the
`A.
`set-top box products and remote controls
`that Scientific Atlanta made we had to
`consider the entire entertainment
`environment in the home.
`And that included
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 8
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 517]
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`DVD players.
`Scientific Atlanta didn't make
`Q.
`any DVD players, did they?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`After leaving Scientific
`Atlanta, did you have any experience in the
`design or development of VCRs?
`A.
`I don't recall ever having any
`design or development experience with VCRs.
`Q.
`So that would be -- So you say
`you don't recall ever having any design or
`development experience with VCRs.
`That's
`in your entire career?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`Okay.
`And do you recall ever
`having design or development experience
`with DVD players over the course of your
`career?
`I don't recall ever having any
`A.
`design or development experience with DVD
`players over the entire career.
`Q.
`Have you ever had any
`experience in design or development of
`digital video recording devices such as,
`for example, the TiVo device?
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 9
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 518]
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`I've had experience with
`A.
`digital video recording devices similar to
`a TiVo device.
`Q.
`And designing and developing
`those devices?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And where was that at?
`A.
`That -- I've had that
`experience in designing and developing
`those products in my current role at
`Comcast.
`So presently working in the
`Q.
`design and development -- slow down a
`little bit here.
`Are you presently working on
`the design and development of digital video
`recording devices at Comcast?
`A.
`Not today.
`The products I'm
`working on today do not have that feature.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So this was in the past?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Can you tell me approximately
`when you worked on those types of products?
`A.
`2011 and '12, I think.
`Q.
`And prior to that work that you
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 10
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
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`[Page 519]
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`did at Comcast, did you have any experience
`in the design and development of digital
`video recording devices?
`A.
`I don't think I had any design
`or development role prior to the work at
`Comcast.
`And did any of your prior
`Q.
`employers make a product -- make a digital
`video recording device?
`A.
`I did contract work for --
`consulting work for a company called Nagra
`Livewire from 2006.
`Let me get the dates
`right.
`Sorry.
`Through -- yeah, 20 -- let
`me say 2007 through -- through late 2010.
`Nagra made a software product that went
`with digital video recorders, and I was
`involved in the team that sourced the
`hardware that used that software product.
`So I had some role in that whole process
`from 2007 through late 2010.
`Q.
`And you said the name of the
`company was Nagra?
`Can you spell that,
`please?
`And I'm sorry.
`N-A-G-R-A.
`A.
`the specific division at the time was a
`
`And
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 11
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 520]
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`company called Livewire, L-I-V-E-W-I-R-E,
`all one word, located in Atlanta.
`Q.
`And you said that this company
`developed a software application?
`A.
`Yeah.
`The application was
`actually called Livewire.
`Q.
`Okay.
`But this company,
`They
`Livewire, did not make the hardware.
`just wrote the software; is that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`We sourced the
`hardware, specified the hardware, and that
`was part of my work was to specify that.
`Q.
`So when you say you specified
`the hardware, you developed the
`specification requirements that you
`needed --
`A.
`Q.
`the device?
`That's right.
`A.
`Okay.
`I'm a little embarrassed
`Q.
`I didn't ask this on the first day, and I
`don't think Peter asked it yesterday.
`What
`is your current residence?
`A.
`Current residence is in the
`
`Yes.
`-- and then someone else made
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 12
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 521]
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`It's 2290 Soaring, that's
`Atlanta area.
`S-O-A-R-I-N-G, Soaring Lane, and the city
`is Lawrenceville,
`L-A-W-R-E-N-C-E-V-I-L-L-E, Georgia, 30044.
`Q.
`I'm going to give you now a
`copy of document Universal Electronics
`Exhibit 2029 in the 1146 IPR.
`Do you
`recognize this document?
`A.
`Yes.
`It's my declaration in
`this case.
`And can you turn to
`Okay.
`Q.
`Page -- okay.
`I'm going to stick with the
`rule today, otherwise Eric is going to
`throw stuff at me.
`We'll use the page
`numbers on this document after Universal
`Electronic Exhibit 2029.
`There's a page
`number.
`We're going to use that page
`number on the bottom right side of the
`page.
`Do you understand that?
`Yes.
`A.
`So please turn to Page 26 of
`Q.
`Exhibit 2029.
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And do you see your signature
`on that page?
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 13
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
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`[Page 522]
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`Do you recall signing
`
`I do.
`A.
`And is that your signature?
`Q.
`It is.
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`this document?
`A.
`I do.
`There's a date next to
`Q.
`Okay.
`it says March 25, 2015.
`Is that the day
`that you signed this document?
`A.
`It is.
`Q.
`And is that the date that this
`document was finalized as far as you're
`concerned?
`Yes.
`Yes, it is.
`A.
`And do you recall when you
`Q.
`began working on this document?
`It
`A.
`Same answer as on Monday.
`was in that February time frame, but I do
`not recall the exact start of it.
`Q.
`And the process that you used
`to prepare this document is the same
`process that you used to prepare your
`declaration in the 1109 IPR; is that
`correct?
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 14
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
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`[Page 523]
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`And just to quickly
`Okay.
`Q.
`summarize, you prepared a first draft of
`the document; is that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`And then you forwarded that on
`to some folks at Greenberg Traurig and they
`revised the formatting; is that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`And do you recall if they made
`any changes to the substance of the
`document?
`I don't recall any changes to
`A.
`the substance of the document, no.
`Q.
`When I say "the document," I
`mean this specific document we're referring
`to right now.
`A.
`I don't recall any changes for
`
`this.
`
`Do you recall if -- do you
`Q.
`recall how many drafts, if any additional
`drafts, were exchanged between you and
`Greenberg Traurig?
`A.
`I don't recall any additional
`drafts on this document.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So just to summarize
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 15
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
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`Form.
`
`then, you do recall preparing a first draft
`of this document?
`A.
`I do.
`And then you sent it to
`Q.
`Okay.
`Greenberg Traurig and they made whatever
`formatting changes they believed were
`necessary; is that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`MR. MAIERS:
`Objection.
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`And then they sent you back a
`revised draft; is that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`And you don't recall making any
`additional changes to that revised draft?
`A.
`I don't recall making any
`additional changes on this one to that
`revised draft, no.
`So do you believe that
`Q.
`Okay.
`the revised draft you got back from
`Greenberg Traurig is the same as this
`document in final form?
`A.
`I believe that it is, yes.
`Q.
`Okay.
`Could you please turn to
`Page 6 of Exhibit 2029?
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 16
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 525]
`
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`Okay.
`A.
`And I'd like to direct your
`Q.
`attention to Paragraph 20 which is at the
`bottom of that page.
`Do you see that
`paragraph?
`I do.
`A.
`And you see it says here, I
`Q.
`agree with Mr. Geier that a person of
`ordinary skill in the art in the relevant
`time frame was aware of associating keys on
`a remote control with command values.
`Do you see that?
`I do.
`A.
`And then it says, I would also
`Q.
`agree that it was well known to use a
`remote control to select inputs and outputs
`of devices.
`Do you see that?
`A.
`I do.
`And then, finally, it
`Q.
`Okay.
`says, I do not agree that such a person was
`aware of sending a command value to a
`device to actively switch inputs and
`outputs according to a user's activity.
`In that last sentence there,
`you use the term actively switch.
`Do you
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 17
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 526]
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`see that?
`I do.
`A.
`Did Mr. Geier use the term
`Q.
`actively switch?
`That's a term --
`A.
`No.
`MR. MAIERS:
`Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Foundation.
`
`No.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`No?
`A.
`Actually, I don't have
`Mr. Geier's declaration in front of me.
`Can we take a look at that?
`I'm going to
`Q.
`We certainly can.
`go ahead and hand you what's been
`previously marked as Universal Remote
`Control Exhibit 1003, and this is in the
`1146 IPR.
`
`So going back to my question,
`the term actively switch, which is on Page
`6 of your declaration which is
`Exhibit 2029.
`Is the term actively switch
`a term that Mr. Geier used?
`A.
`No.
`It's not a term that he
`actively used -- or he used in his
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 18
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 527]
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`description of what a person of ordinary
`skill in the art would be.
`Q.
`Did Mr. Geier use the term
`actively switch anywhere in his
`declaration?
`Actually, withdraw that.
`Let's go ahead and take a look
`at -- The statements that you make in
`Paragraph 20 here, are they with reference
`to your citation to Paragraph 22 of
`Mr. Geier's declaration in Paragraph 19
`above?
`They would be in reference to
`A.
`that and anywhere in Mr. Geier's
`declaration where he referred to someone of
`ordinary skill in the art.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So then based on your
`statements in Paragraph 20, you would agree
`that one of skill -- of ordinary skill in
`the art was aware of associating keys on a
`remote control with command values; is that
`correct?
`I would agree that associating
`A.
`keys on a remote control with a value that
`was transmitted, being the command value,
`people would be aware of that.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 19
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 528]
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`
`So do you agree with the
`Okay.
`Q.
`first sentence of Paragraph 20 in your
`declaration, Exhibit 2029?
`Is that an
`accurate statement of your belief?
`A.
`Yes, it is.
`Q.
`Okay.
`And would you also agree
`that one of ordinary skill in the art would
`have known to use a remote control to
`select inputs and outputs?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`But it is your position based
`again on your statements in Paragraph 20
`that a person of skill in the art would not
`be aware of sending a command value to a
`device to actively switch inputs and
`outputs; is that correct?
`MR. MAIERS:
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`Actually, let me just change
`the question.
`Would a person of ordinary
`skill in the art in the relevant time
`period that you refer to here in
`Paragraph 20 be aware of sending a command
`value to a device to actively switch inputs
`
`Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 20
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 529]
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`
`and outputs?
`I believe that a person
`Yeah.
`A.
`of ordinary skill in the art at that time
`would not have been aware of sending a
`single command value to actively switch
`inputs and outputs.
`Q.
`When you use the term actively
`switch, what is your understanding of what
`that term means?
`A.
`My understanding, I think I
`call out later in the document.
`Q.
`Okay.
`A.
`And I give examples from the --
`from the '207 patent, and my understanding
`comports with those examples given.
`Q.
`So is it your testimony that
`actively switch means what occurs in the
`examples you cite in your declaration?
`A.
`It means I stated to switch or
`route inputs to outputs in a device.
`Q.
`And is it your position --
`actually let me -- Withdrawn.
`Turning back to Paragraph 20 on
`Page 6 of Exhibit 2029.
`You refer to in
`the first sentence that the relevant time
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 21
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 530]
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`What is -- what relevant time frame
`frame.
`were you referring to, Paragraph 20?
`A.
`To the time of the filing of
`the '207 patent which would have been
`September in 2009.
`Q.
`And, again, Mr. Geier did not
`use the term actively switch in his
`declaration, did he?
`A.
`I haven't looked again at the
`entire declaration, and I don't recall if
`that phrase is in, though, the declaration.
`I can review it now if you'd like.
`Q.
`Sure.
`Why don't you go ahead
`and review it, please.
`I
`A.
`I believe you're right.
`believe he does not discuss act switching
`in this document.
`So he does not use the
`Q.
`Okay.
`term actively switch in his declaration; is
`that correct?
`I don't see where he used
`A.
`No.
`actively switched or discussed that concept
`in any way that I could be referring to.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So then the statement
`that you made in the last sentence of
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 22
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 531]
`
`Paragraph 20, Exhibit 2029, is an error?
`MR. MAIERS:
`Objection.
`Form.
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`Is that correct?
`A.
`I don't think I would call that
`an error.
`I would say that it's a matter
`of -- that I'm relating the person that he
`described to a person I think would need to
`be of ordinary skill in the art.
`Q.
`Okay.
`But the statement that
`you make in the last sentence of Paragraph
`20, you're not actually disagreeing with
`anything that Mr. Geier expressed in his
`declaration?
`A.
`
`Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Correct.
`MR. MAIERS:
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`Let's go down to Paragraph 22.
`And we're on Page 7 of Exhibit 2029 in the
`1146 IPR.
`And you see there you say, I
`also disagree with Mr. Geier's opinion that
`the '207 patent also describes that
`technology was known in the art regarding
`controlling various components of a home
`entertainment center.
`
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`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 23
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 532]
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`Are you familiar with
`
`Do you see that section?
`I do.
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`what a macro is?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Can you explain to me your
`understanding of what a macro is?
`A.
`A macro is when I take a number
`of individual commands on a remote control
`and assign those to a single key so that
`pressing that single key transmits those
`commands instead of a single command.
`Q.
`And can a macro include
`commands that relate to different
`components of a home entertainment system?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Let's take a look at -- I'm
`going to give you a copy of the '207 patent
`so we can talk about that.
`And this has
`been marked as Exhibit 1001 in the 1146
`IPR.
`
`Do you see the document that's
`marked as Universal Remote Control
`Exhibit 1001 -- I'm sorry.
`Universal
`Remote Control Exhibit 1001?
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 24
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 533]
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`I'm sorry?
`Can you tell me what it is,
`
`I do.
`Do you recognize this document?
`I do.
`Can you tell me what it is,
`
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`please?
`A.
`Q.
`please.
`It's a copy of U.S. Patent
`A.
`8,243,207, the '207 patent.
`Q.
`Okay.
`And you have read this
`'207 patent; is that correct?
`I have.
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`From cover to cover?
`A.
`Cover to cover.
`Can you please
`Q.
`Okay.
`Great.
`turn to Page 9 of that Exhibit 1001.
`I'll
`ask you to look at Column 1 starting around
`Line 20 where it says, various methods have
`been proposed for automating all or part of
`these configuration operations, for
`example, through use of controlling device
`based macro sequences such as described in
`U.S. Patent No. 5,959,751.
`A.
`Correct.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 25
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 534]
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`Do you see that section?
`Q.
`Mm-hmm.
`A.
`So we just discussed what a
`Q.
`macro is, correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And we discussed that macros
`can be used to send commands to multiple
`components in an entertainment device?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And right here in Column 1 of
`the '207 patent, the idea of a macro
`sequence is described?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Is that correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`So wouldn't it be fair to say
`that the '207 patent does describe at least
`one way to control multiple components of
`the home entertainment system?
`A.
`No.
`I think the '207 patent
`references that to differentiate its
`content from macros.
`Q.
`Would one of skill in the art
`understand what a macro is?
`A.
`Yes.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 26
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 535]
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`Would one of skill in the art
`Q.
`understand that a macro allows a user to
`control multiple components of a home
`entertainment system?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`So one of skill in the art,
`when they see the description of a patent
`that relates to macro sequences, would not
`understand that that's a way to control
`multiple devices of a home entertainment
`system?
`That's not what I said.
`No.
`A.
`What I said is that is an example that I
`think has been referenced to differentiate
`the content of this patent, not as an
`example of the content of this patent.
`Q.
`Okay.
`But one of skill in the
`art would know what a macro is, correct?
`A.
`Typically in a patent, as I'm
`certain that you're aware, the prior art is
`presented and then the novel art is
`presented.
`And this is pointing back to
`prior art.
`It's describing what
`Exactly.
`Q.
`is already known, correct?
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 27
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 536]
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`Macros were
`That's right.
`A.
`known at this time.
`We've agreed on that.
`Q.
`And one of skill in the art
`would know that a macro can be used to
`control multiple devices in a home
`entertainment system; is that correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`As I've already
`testified.
`So when this '207 patent
`Q.
`describes patent that relates to the use of
`macros, one of ordinary skill in the art
`would understand that a macro is one way to
`control multiple components of a home
`entertainment system; isn't that correct?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So then the '207 patent
`does describe a technology known in the art
`for controlling various components of a
`home entertainment system; is that correct?
`MR. MAIERS:
`Object to form.
`THE WITNESS:
`I won't speculate
`as to the content of the '751 and how that
`might -- the full content of that might
`differ.
`But the '207 offers an alternative
`to macros.
`I'll agree to that.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 28
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 537]
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`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`Q.
`And macros were known?
`A.
`Yes.
`Macros were known.
`Q.
`And one skilled in the art
`would know that a macro was one way to
`control multiple components of a home
`entertainment system, correct?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`So the '207 patent is
`disclosing that there is existing
`technology to control multiple components
`of a home entertainment center; is that
`correct?
`Yes.
`A.
`So then on what basis
`Okay.
`Q.
`did you disagree with Mr. Geier's opinion
`that the '207 patent also describes a
`technology was known in the art regarding
`controlling various components of a home
`entertainment center?
`MR. MAIERS:
`Rule of completeness.
`I disagreed with
`THE WITNESS:
`that concatenated with the review of prior
`art reveals that all this functionality is
`
`Object.
`
`Form.
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 29
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 538]
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`contained in the claims at issue in '207.
`So it's the entire thing together.
`BY MR. BARKAUS:
`So in
`Okay.
`Q.
`I see.
`Paragraph 22 you are not disagreeing with
`the first quoted portion?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`It is the combination of those
`two portions?
`A.
`That's correct.
`Q.
`Okay.
`And you agree that the
`first quoted portion, if taken alone, would
`be accurate?
`That is a very high level
`A.
`phrase that could describe macros, it could
`describe universal remote controls.
`I
`agree that controlling multiple components
`on a home entertainment system was well
`known.
`Q.
`
`Thank you.
`Great.
`Okay.
`If you could go ahead
`Okay.
`and move down to the next paragraph which
`is Paragraph 23 in Exhibit 2029.
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`It says, I am not familiar with
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 30
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 539]
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`any prior art that discloses each and every
`limitation of the challenged claims of the
`'207 patent.
`Do you see that?
`A.
`I do.
`Q.
`Did you perform any sort of a
`search for prior art with respect to the
`challenged patents?
`A.
`I did not.
`And did
`Okay.
`Q.
`You did not.
`you review all of the art that was cited on
`the front page, the cover of the '207
`patent --
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`
`I did not.
`-- which would be --
`I'm sorry.
`Finish.
`Which would be Exhibit 1001?
`Thank you.
`No, I did not.
`It must be the third day of
`I'm ready to go home.
`depositions.
`I'd like to think that we know
`Q.
`each other so well you can tell, you can
`read my mind.
`A.
`If I can get you to the same
`point, we'll be good today.
`Q.
`Let's go ahead to the next
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 31
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electronics Inc., Trial No. IPR2014-01109
`
`
`
`[Page 540]
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`page, Page 8 of Exhibit 2029.
`That
`A.
`Just to finish on 23.
`statement is based on my long experience in
`being involved in this entire field.
`And
`that when I say I'm not familiar with any
`prior art, from my personal knowledge in
`working in this field, I'm not familiar
`with it.
`So it's based on your
`Q.
`recollection given your experience in the
`field, correct?
`A.
`Based on my experience, yes.
`Q.
`Okay.
`But you didn't do any
`sort of searching for relevant references,
`right?
`No, I did not.
`A.
`Okay.
`If you could turn to
`Q.
`Page 8, the bottom of Page 8, there's
`Paragraph 29.
`Do you see that?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`Okay.
`It says, it is also my
`understanding that the person of ordinary
`skill in the art is deemed to read the
`claim term not only in the context of the
`particular claim in which the disputed term
`
`877-479-2484
`
`U.S. LEGAL SUPPORT, INC.
`
`www.uslegalsupport.com
`
`Universal Remote Control Exhibit 1055, Page 32
`Universal Remote Control v. Universal Electr
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