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`Page 1
` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`________________________________
`GLOBALFOUNDRIES U.S., INC.,
`GLOBALFOUNDRIES U.S., INC.,
`DRESDEN MODULE ONE LLC & CO. KG,
`GLOBALFOUNDRIES U.S., INC.,
`DRESDEN MODULE TWO LLC & CO.
`AND TSMC NORTH AMERICA CORP.,
` Case Nos.
` Petitioners, IPR2014-01088
` IPR2014-01089
`-vs- IPR2014-00861
`
`ZOND, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`________________________________
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` Minneapolis, Minnesota
` March 2nd, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`Amy L. Larson, RPR
`Job No. 90908
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 800-702-9580
`
`

`

`Page 2
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`Page 4
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`INDEX:
`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
`Ms. Granovsky................................7
`EXHIBITS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION:
`Exhibit 1...................................32
`The Corona Discharge, Its Properties and
`Specific Uses
`No Bates
`
`EXHIBITS PREVIOUSLY MARKED:
`
`Intel 1002..................................14
`
`TSMC-1101....................................8
`
`TSMC-1102...................................71
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`TSMC-1103...................................34
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`TSMC-1105...................................14
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`TSMC-1108...................................56
`
`GlobalFoundries 1008........................46
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`Page 5
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`THE VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN,
`taken on this 2nd day of March, 2015, at
`The Commons Hotel, 615 Washington Avenue, S.E.,
`Minneapolis, Minnesota, commencing at
`approximately 8:07 a.m.
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are on the
` record. This is the start of tape labeled
` number 1 of the videotaped deposition of
` Dr. Uwe Kortshagen in the matter of
` Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company
` vs. Zond, LLC, in the U.S. Patent & Trademark
` Office before the Patent Trial & Appeal
` Board, Patent Number 6,806,652, IPR numbers
` 2014-01088, also 2014-01-089 [sic], and
` 2014-00861.
` This deposition is being held at
` The Commons Hotel in Minneapolis, Minnesota,
` on March 2nd, 2015. The time is
` approximately 8:07 a.m. My name is Kraig
` Hildahl, I'm a legal video specialist from
` TSG Reporting headquartered in New York,
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`APPEARANCES:
` RADULESCU
` 350 Fifth Avenue
` New York, NY 10118
` By: Maria Granovsky, Ph.D., Esq.
` For: Zond, LLC
`
` WHITE & CASE
` 701 Thirteenth Street NW
` Washington, D.C. 20005
` By: David Tennant, Esq.
` For: Global Foundries
`
` WHITE & CASE
` 3000 El Camino Real
` 5 Palo Alto Square
` Palo Alto, California 94306
` By: Brett Rismiller, Esq.
` For: Global Foundries
`
` HAYNES AND BOONE
` 2505 North Plano Road
` Richardson, Texas 75082
` By: Gregory Huh, Esq.
` For: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing
` Company Limited and
` TSMC North America
`
` FOLEY & LARDNER
` Washington Harbour
` 3000 K Street NW
` Washington, D.C. 20007
` By: John Feldhaus, Esq. (via telephone)
` For: Renesas
`
`Page 3
`
`INDEX: (Cont'd.)
` BAKER BOTTS
` One Shell Plaza
` 910 Louisiana Street
` Houston, Texas 77002
` By: Robinson Vu, Esq. (via telephone)
` For: Toshiba
`
` ALSO PRESENT: Kraig Hildahl, Videographer
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 800-702-9580
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`Page 6
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`New York. The court reporter is Amy Larson
`also in association with TSG Reporting.
` Will counsel please identify themselves
`for the record.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Maria Granovsky
`from Radulescu, LLP for patentholder Zond.
` MR. TENNANT: David Tennant of
`White & Case for Global Foundries U.S., Inc.,
`Global Foundries Dresden Module One, LLC &
`Co. KG and Global Foundries Dresden Module
`Two, LLC, and Co. KG.
` MR. RISMILLER: Brett Rismiller,
`White & Case, also on behalf of Global
`Foundries.
` MR. HUH: Gregory Huh,
`Haynes & Boone, LLC, on behalf of TSMC and
`Fujitsu.
` MR. TENNANT: Anybody on the
`phone, please, please announce yourself.
` MR. FELDHAUS: John Feldhaus of
`Foley & Lardner for Renesas.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
`reporter please swear in the witness and then
`we can proceed.
`
`Page 7
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN,
` a witness in the above-entitled action,
` after having been first duly sworn, was
` deposed and says as follows:
`
` MR. TENNANT: Maria, real quick,
` for the record, any objections I make today
` will apply to all petitioners in the various
` proceedings.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: That's fine.
`
` EXAMINATION
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Good morning, Dr. Kortshagen.
`A. Good morning, Dr. Granovsky.
`Q. We've been here before, so I know you've been
` deposed before. But just so we are clear on
` the rules, you should answer verbally; do you
` understand that?
`A. I do.
`Q. Is there any reason why you cannot testify
` truthfully today?
`A. No.
`
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`Page 8
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`Q. Okay. Are you taking any medications that
` might impact your memory?
`A. No, I don't.
`Q. Okay. What did you do to prepare for today's
` deposition?
`A. I reread to the best of my ability my
` declarations, the board decisions, the
` references that were cited. I briefly met
` with my lawyers yesterday evening. In total,
` I think I spent maybe 10 to 12 hours
` preparing myself.
`Q. Okay. I'm handing you a document that was
` formerly marked as TSMC-1101. Do you
` recognize this, Doctor?
`A. I do.
`Q. What is it?
`A. It is the U.S. Patent 6,806,652.
`Q. And you have seen this document before?
`A. I have.
`Q. And when was the last time you reviewed it?
`A. Probably on Friday.
`Q. Okay.
`A. And I looked at it probably Saturday and
` Sunday, but, yeah.
`
`Page 9
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`Q. Let's turn to claim 1 of the '652 patent.
` It's in column 33.
`A. (Complies.)
`Q. And subpart C of the claim reads, "An excited
` atom source that generates an initial plasma
` and excited atoms from a volume of feed gas";
` is that correct?
`A. That is correct, yes.
`Q. Is it your understanding that this claim
` limitation requires the generation of both a
` plasma and excited atoms?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I think what
` you asked me is, I believe, precisely the
` claim language, an excited atom source that
` generates an initial plasma and excited
` atoms, yes.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. What is your understanding of the difference
` between the generation of a plasma and
` excited atoms?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, in my opinion
` there is no difference, because the
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`Page 10
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` generation of a plasma and the generation of
` excited atoms go hand in hand. When you're
` creating a plasma, you will generate excited
` atoms.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Can you generate excited atoms without
` generating a plasma?
`A. Yeah, I think there are other means of
` generating excited atoms.
`Q. So the two are not synonymous, in your
` opinion?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: I think when you're
` creating a plasma you will create excited
` atoms. I think there are other ways of
` creating excited atoms without using a
` plasma.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Subpart C also has this term, "From a volume
` of feed gas"; is that correct?
`A. That is correct, yes.
`Q. Do you have an understanding of what the term
` "a volume of gas" means?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
`
`Page 11
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` THE WITNESS: A volume of gas?
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Yes.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, I would call it
` a volume of gas atoms or molecules.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. So I guess my question is more what -- what
` does a -- a volume mean?
`A. What does a volume mean?
`Q. Yes.
`A. Well, conventionally, I believe a volume
` means a -- a region in space. Yeah, I think
` I need to leave it at that, a region in
` space.
`Q. Is it a measurable quantity?
`A. Volume, is a volume a measurable quantity? I
` think so. Ideally, you would want volume to
` be measurable, yes.
`Q. Okay. And if you look at the limitation D of
` claim 1, it recites, "A power supply that
` generates an electric field between the
` cathode assembly and the anode, the electric
` field super-ionizing the initial plasma so as
` to generate a high-density plasma"; is that
` correct?
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`Page 12
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`A. Yes, that is correct.
`Q. Is it your understanding that this limitation
` requires the electric field generated by the
` pour supply to super-ionize the initially
` plasma to generate a high-density plasma?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you please
` repeat your question just so that I --
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Sure.
` THE WITNESS: -- can be sure that
` I accurately understand it?
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Is it your understanding that this limitation
` requires the electric field generated by the
` power supply to super-ionize the initial
` plasma to generate a high-density plasma?
` MR. TENNANT: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: So claim limitation
` D uses the term electric field twice. It
` says, "A power supply that generates an
` electric field between the cathode and the
` anode," and then it continues, "The electric
` field super-ionizing the initial plasma so as
` to generate."
`
`Page 13
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` So are you asking me whether these two
` mentions of electric field refer to the same
` electric field?
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Let's start with that, yes. Do they -- do
` they refer to the same electric field?
`A. Aha. Well, I certainly believe this would be
` one possibility. It's not entirely clear to
` me that the claim language really suggests
` that they need to be the same electric field.
`Q. Where else would the electric field be
` generated from?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I think --
` yeah, so I do believe that these two electric
` fields or mentions of electric fields are --
` likely refer to the same electric field.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. And that electric field is generated by
` the -- by the power supply mentioned in -- in
` the -- in this claim -- in this claim
` limitation; is that correct?
`A. Yes, I believe that is correct.
`Q. Okay. I handed you an exhibit previously
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`

`Page 14
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` marked Intel 1002. Do you recognize it?
`A. I do.
`Q. What is it?
`A. It is my declaration concerning claims 1
` through 17 of the U.S. Patent Number
` 6,806,652.
`Q. And when did you last review it?
`A. Sometime this weekend.
` MR. TENNANT: Maria, the copy you
` gave me is in black and white, but there were
` color figures throughout the declaration.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: I apologize, I
` just have the black and white.
` MR. TENNANT: Okay. Can we just
` note for the record that the witness wasn't
` given the true and correct copy.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Right, it's a
` black and white copy.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. I handed you an exhibit previously marked as
` TSMC-1105; is that correct?
`A. That is correct.
`Q. What is it?
`A. This is the paper the High Flux Beam Source
`
`Page 15
`
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` of Thermal Rare-Gas Metastable Atoms that we
` commonly refer to as Fahey.
`Q. Have you read it before?
`A. I did, yes.
`Q. Did you read it in conjunction with forming
` your opinions about the '652 patent?
`A. I did, yes.
`Q. Okay. And when was the last time you
` reviewed it?
`A. Again, sometime this weekend.
`Q. Okay. If you'd turn to page 23 of your
` declaration, paragraphs 53 to 58.
`A. Which page, please?
`Q. Twenty-three.
`A. Twenty-three?
`Q. Uh-huh.
`A. Yes.
`Q. I'm sorry, paragraphs 56 to 58.
`A. Fifty-six --
`Q. No, fifty -- paragraphs 56 to 58. So it's
` page 23 --
`A. Sorry. I have it, yeah, 56, yes.
`Q. And these paragraphs discuss limitation of
` claim 1, limitation claim 1-C, right?
`
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`Page 16
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`A. Yes, that's correct.
`Q. Okay. And is it your assertion that this
` reference, Fahey, discloses limitation 1-C?
`A. That is my opinion, yes.
`Q. Can you please point me to where Fahey
` discloses the generation of plasma?
`A. So in the introduction paragraph of Fahey,
` which is on page 381, the right column, Fahey
` noticed, "A novel meta beam" -- "metastable
` beam source was recently described by
` Leasure, et al., 1975, whose design employed
` a weak high-voltage corona discharge between
` a sharp needle and a cone-shaped anode. The
` discharge was maintained across a substantial
` pressure gradient."
` And then in the second paragraph of the
` introduction Fahey continues and says, "We
` report here modifications to the Leasure,
` et al., design which result in a further
` simplification, enhanced beam flux,
` species-independent energies, and
` importantly, beam energies only slightly in
` excess of thermal energies."
` So Fahey -- so, first of all, let me back
`
`Page 17
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` up. In the first sentence Fahey talks about
` the beam source that he is modifying, which
` is based on weak high-voltage corona
` discharge, and that means that a plasma is
` created here, because creating a corona
` discharge involves the generation of a
` plasma. And so this is the basis for Fahey's
` design of the metastable atom source.
`Q. So is it your assertion that the corona
` discharge necessarily leads to the generation
` of plasma?
`A. That is correct, yes.
`Q. Are there any conditions under which a corona
` discharge will not be accompanied by the
` generation of plasma?
`A. In my opinion, I believe every one of
` ordinary skill would agree that forming a
` discharge always involves the generation of a
` plasma. So I cannot think of any
` circumstance under which operating a corona
` discharge would not involve the generation of
` a plasma.
`Q. Are there different types of coronas?
`A. In principle, there are two types of corona
`
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`Page 18
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` known, positive and negative corona
` discharges.
`Q. Are there coronas that are considered
` unipolar and bipolar?
`A. I actually must admit that I have not heard
` the term bipolar being used in combination
` with a corona discharge, so maybe you could
` explain to me what you -- what you understand
` when you're talking about a bipolar corona
` discharge.
`Q. Have you heard of the term streamer
` conduction coronas?
`A. I have heard of the term streamer, yes.
`Q. What is that?
`A. Streamer is -- I should say a streamer
` results from the formation of an avalanche of
` electrons which is produced by the presence
` of strong electric fields in the corona. The
` streamer develops when the avalanche of
` electrons reaches such a density that the
` self-generated space charged electric field
` in the so-called streamer head becomes
` important.
`Q. Are there differences between streamer
`
`Page 19
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` coronas and unipolar coronas?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: So I think that both
` types of corona discharges I'm familiar with,
` namely, positive and negative coronas,
` involve the formation of electron avalanches
` which may, depending on the conditions,
` transition into streamers.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Okay.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Aside from discussing the corona discharge,
` does Fahey disclose plasma generation?
`A. Excuse me, I'm --
`Q. Sure.
`A. I didn't understand your question, just
` audibly, I'm sorry.
`Q. Aside from discussing the corona discharge,
` does Fahey disclose plasma generation?
`A. Ah. Uh-huh.
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, if we continue
` reading on page 381, Fahey continues in
` paragraph 2 to discuss his or her source
` design and continues to discuss that there is
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`Page 20
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` a low-voltage discharge between a sharp
` needle and a cone-shaped skimmer electrode
` and that the discharge is maintained across a
` pressure gradient created by differentially
` pumping a goes nozzle.
` So, again, there are these multiple
` mentions of maintaining a discharge which is
` linked to creating a plasma.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Do these conditions necessarily create a
` plasma?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: I think if you are
` creating a discharge, you will be generating
` a plasma, yes.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. If you were to change the pressure gradient,
` would you still maintain plasma?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: I do not believe
` that I can answer this question in general
` terms. I believe for as long as you are
` operating at pressure gradients that allow
` you to maintain a discharge, you or Fahey
`
`Page 21
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` will be creating a plasma.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. So any time the system creates a discharge,
` there's plasma?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yes, any time you
` are creating a discharge, there will be a
` plasma created.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. So is your opinion that the discharge is
` equivalent to the creation of a plasma?
`A. Yes, I think that everyone of ordinary skill
` would understand that maintaining or
` operating a discharge involves the creation
` of a plasma.
`Q. Okay. If you'd look at page 24 of your
` declaration. And I apologize, it should have
` been in color. If you look at Figure 1 of
` Fahey -- actually, let's see, Fahey himself
` has -- he doesn't have the color, does he?
` No. Okay.
` So Figure 1 of Fahey, where is the volume
` of gas from which the excited atoms and
` plasma are generated, where is it in this
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` figure?
`A. Ah.
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, if you would
` just give me --
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Of course.
` THE WITNESS: -- one second here.
` (Reviews document.)
` Excuse me, could you repeat your question
` to me?
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Sure.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. In Figure 1 of Fahey, can you point out where
` the volume of feed gas from which the initial
` plasma and excited atoms are generated is?
`A. Yes. So it is my understanding that,
` according to Figure 1, Fahey's source
` consists out of a skimmer, C, which is, as
` shown in Figure 1, grounded, and a needle or
` needle array labeled D to which a negative
` high-voltage is applied.
` So in Fahey's source, the plasma will be
` generated around the needle D with some
` charges flowing to the skimmer C, which is
`
`Page 23
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` the counter electrode, so to say, and the
` space around the needle D and between the
` needle D and skimmer C will be the -- will
` describe the volume of gas in which excited
` atoms are created and the initial plasma is
` generated.
`Q. Would you be able to measure this volume of
` gas?
`A. I think you would need some kind of criterion
` to say how you want to define the volume.
`Q. Well, how would you define the volume in
` this -- from this figure?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection; asked and
` answered.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I mean, it
` depends on how you would want to define the
` volume. Would you want to define the volume
` as the space between the electrodes, would
` you want to define the volume according to a
` certain density of the plasma, I don't know.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Well, before you -- you said that the volume
` is the space between needle D and skimmer C;
` is that correct?
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`A. I -- I didn't --
`Q. Before you described this as the space
` between the needle D and skimmer C. Is that
` still your understanding of what the volume
` is?
`A. I do not believe that I used the term volume
` for this.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Can you please
` read it back.
` (Whereupon, the requested portion
` was read by the court reporter.)
` THE WITNESS: Aha. Could you be
` so kind to read me the question again which
` solicited that answer?
` (Whereupon, the requested portion
` was read by the court reporter.)
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. So my question is: Is it your understanding
` that the volume of feed gas is the space
` between needle D and skimmer C?
`A. So first of all, thank you very much for
` reading me the question again where you used
` the term volume, and then I answered your
` question, actually, without using the term
`
`Page 25
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` volume, so I should have been more careful
` not to confuse these things.
` And now may I ask you again to repeat
` your question, please?
`Q. In your opinion, in Figure 1 of Fahey, where
` is the volume of feed gas from which the
` plasma and the excited atoms are generated?
`A. So in my answer I would not like to use the
` term the volume of feed gas. I would like to
` use the term where is the volume in which the
` feed gas is ionized and excited atoms are
` generated and a plasma is created. And I
` continue to believe that this volume includes
` the space around the needle D and also the
` space, to some extent, between the needle D
` and the skimmer C. That would be difficult
` to describe very concrete boundaries here, I
` believe.
`Q. So what would you need -- what more -- strike
` that.
` What additional information would you
` need to be able to define the volume of the
` gas from which excited atoms and plasma are
` generated between the needle D and the
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` skimmer C?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat
` your question, please?
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Sure.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. What additional information would you need to
` be able to define the volume of the gas from
` which excited atoms and plasma are generated
` between the needle D and the skimmer C?
` MR. TENNANT: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Well, the additional
` information that I would need is I would need
` to understand why you seem to be not
` satisfied with the answer I gave you to my
` previous question -- I gave you to your
` previous question.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. You stated before that it would be very
` difficult to describe very concrete
` boundaries here --
`A. Uh-huh.
`Q. -- to this volume. And so I'm asking is
` there any additional information that would
`
`Page 27
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` allow you to define that volume more
` concretely and calculate that volume?
` MR. TENNANT: Same objection.
` THE WITNESS: Well, I believe that
` I explained that I believe that the volume in
` which the feed gas is ionized and excited
` atoms are generated is around the needle D
` and the skimmer C, and extending towards the
` skimmer C, and that I believe that this is as
` accurate as I can describe it.
` Now you are asking me again to specify
` the volume in a different way, and so I would
` like to understand why you seem to be not
` satisfied with my previous answer.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. I am simply asking whether or not you are
` able to calculate that volume --
` MR. TENNANT: Objection --
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. -- give a specific number.
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well, sitting here
` on the spot I cannot calculate this for you.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`Q. But, in general, from the information in this
` paper would you be able to calculate this
` volume?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: So I believe that
` given an appropriate definition of how you
` would like to define the volume and given the
` appropriate time, it would be possible to
` define a measurable volume, yes.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Okay.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Does Fahey disclose using -- using its system
` for sputtering?
`A. Does Fahey disclose using this system for
` sputtering? No.
`Q. Why would a person of skill in the art
` combine the teachings of Fahey with any other
` teachings to create a sputtering system?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: Well...
` (Reviews document.)
` So I believe that it was well-known to
` people of ordinary skill that the presence of
` excited atoms in sputtering sources, such as
`
`Page 29
` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` Mozgrin's, leads to increased ionization and
` to -- yeah, and enhancement of the plasma
` density, and that this was very desirable in
` order to, for instance, increase the
` sputtering rate.
` So this is, for instance, evidenced by
` the paper by Kudryavtesev which discusses
` that excited atoms lead to a fast increase in
` the density of -- upon application of a
` pulsed electric field.
` So one of ordinary skill would conclude
` that a measure to provide additional excited
` atoms such as by using Fahey's excited atom
` source would lead to the desired effect of
` increasing the ionization rate in the
` sputtering plasma.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. Would Fahey's apparatus need to be modified
` to be included in a sputtering system?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: It appears to me
` that Fahey's apparatus is very well-suited
` for being combined with a sputtering system.
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`Q. So no modifications to his system -- to his
` apparatus would have to be done?
`A. I think this is hard to say that no
` modifications would have to be done, but I do
` not believe that any modifications requiring
` extraordinary skills would be necessary.
`Q. Would there need to be any modifications in,
` for example, the distance between the
` needle D and the skimmer C?
`A. At this point it is not clear to me why there
` would need to be any modification.
`Q. If you go to paragraph 90 to 93 of your
` declaration, that's pages 37 to 39.
`A. Yes.
`Q. And this discusses claim 4; is that correct?
`A. That is correct, yes.
`Q. And the added limitation in claim 4, which
` depends on claim 1, is, "Wherein the initial
` plasma comprises a weakly ionized plasma"; is
` that correct?
`A. That is correct, yes.
`Q. Does Fahey disclose a weakly ionized plasma?
`A. Yes, it is my understanding that Fahey
` discloses a weakly ionized plasma.
`
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`Q. Where?
`A. Well, on page 381 in the introduction
` paragraph Fahey talks about, "A novel
` metastable beam source was recently described
` whose design employed a weak high-voltage
` corona discharge."
` So it is my understanding that a weak
` discharge and the corresponding electrical
` parameters which are mentioned, namely, a
` current of 3 milliamps and a voltage of
` 400 volt giving a power of 1.2 watts, that
` these are consistent with what one would
` understand to be a weakly ionized plasma.
`Q. Aside from this disclosure, does Fahey
` disclose the generation of weakly ionized
` plasma anywhere else?
`A. I believe that to one of ordinary skill, this
` disclosure would be a sufficient disclosure
` of a weakly ionized plasma.
`Q. Okay. So -- so aside from the discussion
` that you mentioned before, there is no other
` mention of weakly ionized plasma in Fahey; is
` that correct?
` MR. TENNANT: Objection; asked and
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
`answered.
` THE WITNESS: I think it is
`correct that Fahey discloses at this one spot
`in the paper that the discharge is a weak
`high-voltage corona discharge, and this is a
`disclosure of a weakly ionized plasma, and so
`I believe that further -- that Fahey saw no
`further reason to disclose it again.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Okay. Let's take
`a break.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off
`the record at 9:06 a.m.
` (Whereupon, a brief recess
` was taken.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going
`back on the record at 9:17 a.m.
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Can you mark this.
` (Whereupon, Exhibit 1 was
` marked for identification.)
` MR. TENNANT: Maria, do you have
`an extra copy?
` MS. GRANOVSKY: Yes. (Hands
`document.) Sorry, is that the one I marked
`up?
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` DR. UWE KORTSHAGEN
` MR. TENNANT: Oh, yeah. (Hands
` document.)
`BY MS. GRANOVSKY:
`Q. I handed you a document marked with Exhibit
` Number 1; is that correct?
`A. That is correct.
`Q. And it is an article titled The Corona
` Discharge, Its Properties and Specific Uses;
` is that correct?
`A. That is correct.
`Q. And if I direct your attention to the last
` paragraph on the first page, would you please
` read it.
`A. Uh-huh. (Reviews document.)
`