CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHUKRI J. SOURI, Ph.D.
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 2011
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`1 (Pages 1 t0 4)
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`IN THE U\IITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA
`ALEXANDRIA DIVISION
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`-------------------------------X
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`SPAN SION LLC,
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`)
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`Plaintiff,
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`V.
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`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
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`)
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`LTD, et al.,
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`) CiVil Action No.
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`) 1:10-cv-881-LO-JFA
`Defendants.
`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO.,
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`LTD,
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`Counterclaim Plaintiff,
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`V.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
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`ON BEHALF OF PLAINTIFF AND COUNTERCLAIM
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`DEFENDANTS:
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`STEPHEN K. SHAHIDA, ESQUIRE
`
`McDERMOTT WILL & EMERY LLP
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`600 Thirteenth Street, Northwest
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`Washington, DC 20005-3096
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`Telephone: (202) 756-8000
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`ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT S AND COUNTERCLAIM
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`PLAINTIFF:
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`MICHAEL J. McKEON, ESQUIRE
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`FISH & RICHARDSON PC.
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`SPANSION LLC and SPANSION,
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`INC.
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`Counterclaim Defendants.
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`)
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`-------------------------------x
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` CONFIDENTIAL -- ATTORNEYS‘ EYES ON;Y
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of SHUKRI J. SOLRI, Ph.D. 20
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`11th Floor
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`1425 K Street, Northwest
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`Washington, DC 20005
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`Telephone: (202) 783-5070
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`Washington, DC
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`Wednesday, April 13, 2011 9:02 am.
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`l
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`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of SHUKRI J. SOURI, PhD.
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`A P P EA RAN C E S C ON T IN U E D
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`4
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`MACRONIX
`
`Merrill LAD - (800) 292-4789
`>”CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY’I"I<
`
`EXHIBIT
`MACRONIX
`IPR2014-00898
`IPR2014-00898
`MX027II-1013
`
`MX027II-1013
`
`CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS INFORMATION - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
`(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:23)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:27)(cid:28)(cid:27)(cid:3)
`(cid:40)(cid:91)(cid:75)(cid:76)(cid:69)(cid:76)(cid:87)(cid:3)(cid:48)(cid:59)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:26)(cid:44)(cid:44)(cid:16)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:22)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:83)(cid:17)(cid:3)(cid:20)
`SP89300869877
`
`
`ALSO ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANTS AND COUNTERCLAI
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`PLAINTIFF:
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`KAROLINA JESIEN, ESQUIRE
`FISH & RICHARDSON RC.
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`52nd Floor
`153 East 53rd Street
`New York, New York 10022-461 1
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`Telephone:
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`(212) 765-5070
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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`Cali Day, Videographer
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`Job No.: 1-197484
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`Pages 1 — 317
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`2 3
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`5 Reported By: Joan V. Cain
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`Videotaped Deposition of SHUKRI J. SOURI,
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`8 PhD, held at the law offices of:
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`McDERMOTT WILL & EMERY LLP
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`600 Thirteenth Street, Northwest
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`Washington, DC 20005-3096
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`(202) 756-8000
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`Pursuant to Notice, before Joan V. Cain,
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`Court Reporter and Notary Public in and for the
`District of Columbia.
`
`

`

`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHUKRI I. SOURI, Ph.D.
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 2011
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`2 (Pages 5 to 8)
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`1
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`2
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`CONTENTS
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`1
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`2
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`PROCEEDINGS
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`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Herc bcgins Tapc No. 1
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`3 EXAMINATION OF SHUKRI J. SOURI, Ph.D.
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`PAGE 3
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`in the deposition of Shukr‘i Sour‘i in the matter of
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`By MR. McKEON
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`E X H I B I T S
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`Spansion LLC versus Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd,
`et al., and the related counterclaim, in the United
`States District Court for the Eastern District of
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`(Attached to the Transcript.)
`7
`8 DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
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`PAGE
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`7 Virginia, Alexandria Division, CiVil Action No.
`8
`1: 10-cv-881-LO-JFA.
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`Today's date is April 13th, 2011. The time
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`is 9:03 am. The video operator today is Cali Day.
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`11 This deposition is taking place at McDermott Will &
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`12 Emery, 600 Thirteenth Street, Northwest, Washington,
`13 DC. 20005.
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`Would counsel please identify themselves
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`and state whom they represent.
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Steve Shahida, McDermott Will
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`17 & Emery for plaintiff Spansion and for the witness
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`here today.
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`MR. McKEON: Good morning. I'm Mike McKeo
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`and with me today is Karolina Jesien, both from Fish
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`21 & Richardson representing the Samsung parties.
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`THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter today
`NNNI—II—II—‘I—INI—‘OKDOOQQ
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`EXHIBITS CONTIN UED
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`is Joan Cain of Merrill LAD. Would the reporter
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`(Attached to the Transcript.)
`DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
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`please swear in the witness.
`SHUKRI J. SOURI, Ph.D.
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`having been duly sworn, was examined and did testify
`as follows:
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`EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR DEFENDANTS A I
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`COUNTERCLAIM PLAINTIFF
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`BY MR. McKEON:
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`Q Good morning.
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`A Good morning.
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`Q Would you state your full name for the
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`record, please.
`A Yes. It's Shukri Souri.
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`Q And who are you employed by?
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`A I'm an employee of Exponent, Incorporated.
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`Merrill LAD - (800) 292-4789
`>”CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY“<
`
`CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS INFORMATION - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
`|PR2014—00898
`(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:23)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:27)(cid:28)(cid:27)(cid:3)
`Exhibit MX027II-1013, p. 2
`(cid:40)(cid:91)(cid:75)(cid:76)(cid:69)(cid:76)(cid:87)(cid:3)(cid:48)(cid:59)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:26)(cid:44)(cid:44)(cid:16)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:22)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:83)(cid:17)(cid:3)(cid:21)
`SP89300869878
`
`

`

`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHUKRI I. SOURI, Ph.D.
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 2011
`
`
`
`60 (Pages 237 to 240)
`239
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`So you would have to go back to figure 3B
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`in this particular example discussed in the patent,
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`and you can consider 310a to be poly-l proximate to
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`the memory and 310b to be poly-l proximate to the
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`periphery as -- as an example.
`BY MR. McKEON:
`
`Q Okay. And then claim 2, though, is etching
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`poly-l layer proximate to said periphery. Do you
`see that?
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`A Yes. So that would be accomplished as
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`shown -- as an example, shown in figure 3C.
`
`Q Okay. And that's happening -- in terms of
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`time, that's happening before etching said poly-2
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`layer proximate to said periphery in claim 1,
`correct?
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: Sorry. Your question is as a
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`sequence in time?
`BY MR. McKEON:
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`Q Yes.
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`A It can, yes.
`
`©00\10\U14>UJ[\JI—
`NI—iI—ifi—iI—iI—iI—iI—iI—iI—iI—i
`OOOOQQUI-DUJNI—‘O
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`21
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`Q Well, I mean it does, right? It's not can.
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` It actually does.
`A In this example. It's not limited to this
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`example.
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`Q Well, is there any -- is there any -- is it
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`possible to etch poly-2 before poly-l and not etch
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`poly- 1?
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`I'm sorry. Is it possible to do what?
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`Well --
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`Poly-2 etch without poly-1?
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`Q Okay. Well, let me ask you this question.
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`I I
`In the -- going to 3E, for example, where's the
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`O>O>O> Okay. So it's possible to etch poly-2 and
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`Right.
`Sure.
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`only poly-2 and then subsequent to that in time etch
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`poly -- poly-l?
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`A You could, yes.
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`Q Okay. Is that what's contemplated by this
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`patent?
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`A I -- I -- I think what's contemplated by
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`this patent is something a person of ordinary skill
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`12 poly-l layer that's proximate to the periphery in
`13
`3E?
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`14
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Objection.
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`THE WITNESS: Sorry. Which figure again?
`15
`16 BY MR. McKEON:
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`Q Well, I'm looking at 3E by way of example,
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`but we can look at 3D or 3F if you'd like. Where's
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`the poly-l layer that's proximate to periphery?
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Objection.
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`would understand to go beyond just what you're
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`THE WITNESS: May I just refer to the claim 21
`seeing here as an example in the embodiment. It'
`possible to etch poly-2 separately and first from
`
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`again?
`
`Merrill LAD - (800) 292-4789
`>”CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY’I"I<
`
`CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS INFORMATION - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
`IPR2014-00898
`(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:23)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:27)(cid:28)(cid:27)(cid:3)
`Exhibit MX027II-1013, p. 3
`(cid:40)(cid:91)(cid:75)(cid:76)(cid:69)(cid:76)(cid:87)(cid:3)(cid:48)(cid:59)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:26)(cid:44)(cid:44)(cid:16)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:22)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:83)(cid:17)(cid:3)(cid:22)
`SP89300869936
`
`

`

`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHUKRI I. SOURI, Ph.D.
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY, APRIL 13, 2011
`
`61 (Pages 241 to 244)
`241
`243
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`poly-1. It's possible to etch them together at the
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`utilize the invention and various embodiments with
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`same time. One of ordinary skill would understan
`that.
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`various modifications as are suited to the
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`particular use contemplated.
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`It's also possible to -- there's a lot of
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`So it's not limiting me as -- or one of
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`things that one of ordinary skill in the area of
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`ordinary skill upon reading this to performing it in
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`semiconductors and in this field can do, can design
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`a process to do.
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`Q Okay. So let me -- let me ask you this.
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`Is it your viewpoint then, with respect to claims 1
`
`and 2, that the order of the etching steps is not
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`limited to any particular order, you can do it in
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`any order you want?
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Objection.
`
`specific -— to a precise -— to the precise forms
`disclosed.
`
`Q Let me ask you this question.
`A Yes.
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`Q With respect to the etching steps in claim
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`1 and then we have etching steps in claim 2, is it
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`your viewpoint tha -- that the etching steps in
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`those claims can all be done simultaneously and
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`THE WITNESS:
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`I -- I think with respect to
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`satisfy claims 1 and claims 2? One etching step,
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`poly-l and poly-2 and also with respect to whether
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`poly-1, poly-2, and you can meet claim 1 and 2?
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`we're talking about proximate to periphery or
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`A In the hypothetical that you have just
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`proximate to memory array, one of ordinary skill and
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`described, I'm assuming that we have poly-1 and
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`referencing and understanding the specification and
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`poly-2 across from memory through interface throug
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`the figures would understand that they can do it
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`periphery and that your question is whether I --
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`in -- as they see fit, and there's also support for
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`whether it's my opinion that simultaneously etching
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`that in the patent bottom of column 5.
`BY MR. McKEON:
`
`through poly-2 and poly-1 on either side of the
`interface can I read that onto the claims?
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`Q Where is that now?
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`A Bottom of column 5, paragraph lines 54 till
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`Q Yes.
`A Yes.
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`the end of the column. It says that the embodiments
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`Q Okay. So let's take it one at a time.
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`have been presented for purposes of illustration and
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`Claim 1, is your testimony that claim 1 requires
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`description. They're not intended to be exhaustive
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`forming poly-2 layer above the substrate at an
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`or to limit the invention to the precise forms
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`interface, et cetera, in the first element there,
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`disclosed, and obviously many modifications and
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`and then as a second step you can etch both
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`variations are possible in light of the above
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`teaching.
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`Q This is the form paragraph that's in almost
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`every patent you're talking about; is that right?
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Objection.
`BY MR. McKEON:
`
`Q I mea --
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`proximate to the memory and proximate to the
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`periphery simultaneously, and it's your viewpoint
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`that that's covered by claim 1?
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`MR. SHAHIDA: Objection.
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
`BY MR. McKEON:
`
`Q Okay.
`
`\OOO\10\Ul-I>UJ[\JI—a
`OWNONUI-PWNI—t
`NNNI—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—aNI—oxoooucxmAwNi—o
`NNNI—‘I—‘I—‘I—ii—ii—ii—ii—ii—ii—i
`NHCUDOON©UIJAUJNHO
`viewpoint tha -- that simultaneous etching of
`\DOO\10\UI4>L.JN»—
`©00\lO\U14>UJ[\JI—d
`NNNI—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—«I—aNr—ooooucxmgmNI—o
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`NI—OCOOQQUI-BUJNI—‘O
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`A Maybe. I don't know about other patents.
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`A I mean, one of ordinary skill would
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`All I'm saying is that one of ordinary skill reading
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`understand that that would be a good thing to do
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`this would understand that, okay, I mean the patent
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`That would be saving etching steps.
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`is not limiting me to doing it in a particular
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`Q Now in terms of disclosure in the patent
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`manner, and it says the embodiments were chosen an
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`that supports that viewpoint, is -- you identified
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`described in order to best explain the principles of
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`column 5, the bottom of column 5.
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`I saw that.
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`the invention and its practical application, to
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`thereby enable others skilled in the art to best
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`Anywhere else that you believe supports your
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`Merrill LAD - (800) 292-4789
`>”CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY’I"I<
`
`CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS INFORMATION - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
`IPR2014-00898
`(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:23)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:27)(cid:28)(cid:27)(cid:3)
`Exhibit MX027II-1013, p. 4
`(cid:40)(cid:91)(cid:75)(cid:76)(cid:69)(cid:76)(cid:87)(cid:3)(cid:48)(cid:59)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:26)(cid:44)(cid:44)(cid:16)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:22)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:83)(cid:17)(cid:3)(cid:23)
`SP89300869937
`
`

`

`CONFIDENTIAL VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF SHUKRI I. SOURI. PhD.
`CONDUCTED ON WEDNESDAY. APRIL 13. 2011
`
`62 (Pages 245 to 248)
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`poly-2 is covered by claim I?
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`A I'm not sure. It's possible, but I -- I
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`can't find it right now if it exists.
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`Q Okay.
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`A But I think one of ordinary skill would
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`understand that it's possible.
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`Q Okay. Well --
`A It's reasonable.
`
`
`
`
`Mem'll LAD - (800) 292-4789
`>""‘CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY’I‘I<
`
`CONFIDENTIAL BUSINESS INFORMATION - SUBJECT TO PROTECTIVE ORDER
`
`|PR2014-00898
`(cid:44)(cid:51)(cid:53)(cid:21)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:23)(cid:16)(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:27)(cid:28)(cid:27)(cid:3)
`Exhibit MX027II-1013, p. 5
`(cid:40)(cid:91)(cid:75)(cid:76)(cid:69)(cid:76)(cid:87)(cid:3)(cid:48)(cid:59)(cid:19)(cid:21)(cid:26)(cid:44)(cid:44)(cid:16)(cid:20)(cid:19)(cid:20)(cid:22)(cid:15)(cid:3)(cid:83)(cid:17)(cid:3)(cid:24)
`SP89300869938
`
`
`
`