throbber
Paper No. 54
`Entered: July 9, 2015
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`Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`- - - - - -
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - - -
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`FUJITSU SEMICONDUCTOR LIMITED, et al.,
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`Petitioners,
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`v.
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`ZOND, LLC,
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`Patent Owner.
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`Cases IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098
`Patent 6,853,142
`
`Cases IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100
`Patent 7,604,716
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`- - - - - - -
`Technology Center 1700
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`- - - - - - -
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`
`
`Before: JONI Y. CHANG, SUSAN L.C. MITCHELL, JENNIFER
`M. MEYER, DEBRA K. STEPHENS (via video link), and KEVIN F.
`TURNER (via video link), Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Friday, June 12,
`2015, at 10:00 a.m., in Hearing Room A, taken at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
`
`
`
`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES:
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`XIN-YI (Vincent) ZHOU, ESQ.
`O'Melveny & Myers LLP
`400 South Hope Street
`Los Angeles, California 90071
`213-430-6000
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER GLOBAL FOUNDRIES:
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`DAVID M. TENNANT, ESQ.
`White & Case LLP
`701 13th Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-626-3684
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`NATHAN ZHANG, ESQ.
`BRETT RISMILLER, ESQ.
`White & Case LLP
`3000 El Camino Real
`5 Palo Alto Square, 9th Floor
`Palo Alto, California 94306
`650-213-0332
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER FUJITSU:
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`DAVID M. O'DELL, ESQ.
`Haynes and Boone, LLP
`2505 N. Plano Road
`Suite 4000
`Richardson, Texas 75082
`972-739-6939
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER RENESAS ENTITIES:
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`JOHN J. FELDHAUS, ESQ.
`Foley & Lardner LLP
`Washington Harbour
`3000 K Street, N.W.
`Suite 600
`Washington, D.C. 20007
`202-672-5300
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`TAREK N. FAHMI, ESQ.
`Ascenda Law Group
`333 West San Carlos Street
`Suite 200
`San Jose, California 95110
`408-389-3537
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`GREGORY J. GONSALVES, Ph.D, J.D.
`The Gonsalves Law Firm
`2216 Beacon Lane
`Falls Church, Virginia 22043
`571-419-7252
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`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`(10:00 a. m. )
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`JUDGE C HANG: Good morning. Please be
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`seated. Good mo rning , Judge Turn er and Judge Stephens.
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`JUDGE S TEP HENS: Good mo rning.
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`JUDGE TURNER : Good mo rning.
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`JUDGE C HANG: All right. I hope ever ybod y can
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`hear us. At this t i me we would like counsel to introduce
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`yourself and your colleagues, begi nning with the Pe titioner.
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`MR. ZHOU: Xin -Yi Zhou, I' m cou nsel for AM D.
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`And I will be spe aking on behalf of the Petitioners today.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Good morning.
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`MR. TENNANT: Good morning, David Tennant
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`with White & Cas e on behalf of the Global Foundries entities.
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`With me is Natha n Zhang and Brett Ris miller. Good morning.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Good morning.
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`MR. O'DELL: David O' Dell on behalf of Fujitsu.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Good morning. Welco me .
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`MR. F ELDHAUS: And John Feldhaus on behalf of
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`Renesas Corporat ion, also Renes as Ele ctronics A me rica.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Good morning. Thank you .
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`And Patent Owne r?
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`MR. FAHM I: Go od morning, Your Honor, Tarek
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`Fah mi on behalf of the P atent Own er. And with me is Greg
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`Gonsalves.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Good morning. Thank you .
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`And this is the or al hearing for cas es
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`IPR2014 -00818, 819, 821, 827, and 1098 involving patent
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`6,853,142. And a lso this oral heari ng is for c ases
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`IPR2014 -00807, 808, 1099 and 1100 involving patent
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`7,604,716.
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`The tr anscript for this consolidated oral hea ring
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`will be e ntered in each of the proce edings and will b e usable
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`for ac ross all cas es.
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`Consistent with our previous order for ea ch
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`involved patent, each part y has one hour to present it s
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`argu ment . Petitioner bears the bur den of proof that the clai ms
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`at issue are un patentable. The refor e, Petitioner will proceed
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`first to present its case and Petitioner ma y rese rve r e buttal
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`ti me . Therea fter, Patent Owner wil l respond to the P etitioner's
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`case.
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`After the pa rties' presentation for t he first involved
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`patent, we will ha ve a lunch br eak, and the hearing will be
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`resu med at 1:30 f or the second pat ent.
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`Counsel, at this ti me ma y I ask whe ther you have
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`de monstratives? And if you do, ca n you give a cop y to the
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`court reporter?
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e.
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`JUDGE C HANG: If you have a c o p y for the panel
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`me mb ers.
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e.
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`MR. FAHM I: Ye s.
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
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`JUDGE C HANG: Thank you. You ma y begin an y
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`ti me .
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`MR. ZHOU: M a y it please the Boa rd, my n a me is
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`Xin -Yi Zhou. I a m counsel for Pet itioner AM D. I will be
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`presenting on behalf of the Peti tioners for the '716 patent
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`today.
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`today.
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`I would like to re serve ten minutes for rebuttal
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`JUDGE C HANG: Oka y.
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`MR. ZHOU: Slide 2 provides an o verview of
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`Petitioner's prese ntation today for the '716 patent. With
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`respect to the independent clai ms o f the '716 patent, which ar e
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`clai ms 1, 14, 26, and 33, there ar e only three disputes
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`presented to the Board.
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`First, whether the prior a rt discloses the li mitation
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`of "without developing an electrica l breakdown cond ition,"
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`second, whether t he two prior art r eferences , Wang and
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`Kudr yavtsev, cou ld be co mbined fo r clai ms 14 and 2 6, and,
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`third, whether the prior a rt discloses a c athode adjac ent to an
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`anode.
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`Adjudication of t hese three issues will resolve all
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`issues for the independent clai ms o f the ' 716 patent. As the
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`Petitioners have s hown in our pape rs, and as I will s how
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`during my pr esentation today, the prior art disclose s these
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`disputed limitatio ns. And a person skilled in the art would
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`have found it obvious to co mbine t he cited r efer ence s.
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`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
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`Slide 3 shows the cover page of the '716 patent, as
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`well as its ce rtificate of corre ction. As shown on th is slide
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`here, the '716 pat ent is a continuation of the '142 pa tent, which
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`will be the subjec t of the pr esentation after lunch toda y.
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`Like other pate nts held b y the P ate nt Owner, the
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`'716 patent discloses a plas ma gene ration apparatus, a plas ma
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`deposition cha mb er. Slide 4 her e s hows here , illustrates figure
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`2A of the '716 pa tent.
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`And figure 2 A sh ows a deposition cha mbe r having
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`a cathode, highlighted in green; an anode in yello w; a gap
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`between the cathode and anode in r ed; and a pulsed power
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`supply, 202, in bl ue.
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`The pulsed powe r supply -- turning to slide 5 now
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`-- the '716 patent discloses a s yste m for generating a
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`strongly-ionized plas ma without e xperiencing electrical
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`breakdown condition. And this is a cco mplished b y fi rst
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`generating a low power pulse, shown here in purple , and then
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`followed b y a high -power pulse, shown here in blue.
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`The lo w power pu lse energizes the feed gas into a
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`weakl y-ionized plas ma , and the hig h power pulse tra nsfor ms
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`the we akl y ionize d plas ma into a strongly -ionized pl as ma .
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`Turning to slide 6 now, the onl y me chanis m
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`disclosed by the ' 716 patent for ge nerating a strongly -ionized
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`plas ma without e xperiencing an el ectrical b r eakdown condition
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`is this two -stage process for ionizi ng the feed gas. As the
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`specification discloses, the conductivity cre ated b y t he
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`weakl y-ionized plas ma substantially pr events the set up of a
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`breakdown condition, even when hi gh power is applied to the
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`plas ma . And the for mation of the weakl y -ionized plas ma
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`substantially eli minates the possibility of creating a
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`breakdown condition.
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`And this is all cre ated b y the power pulse shown in
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`figure 3. I want t o point out here t hat the Y axis sh ows the
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`power o f the el ec trical pulse being held at a low r ange
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`between T1 and T2, and at a higher range bet ween T3 and T4 .
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`As I will show lat er in the presenta tion Wang
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`discloses exactl y the sa me mechani s m for creating a
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`strongly-ionized plas ma without e xperiencing an el ectrical
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`breakdown condition.
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`Now, the '716 pat ent uses ter minology that is
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`slightly diffe rent fro m so me of the other patents this Board
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`has heard in the l ast we ek or two. As the Board ma y rec all,
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`so me of the other patents uses this ter m " without arc ing." And
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`the '716 patent de scribes that as wi thout experiencing an
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`electrical br eakdown condition.
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`For the purpose o f the '716 patent, the ter m
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`"electrical br eakdown condition" and "arcing" ar e s ynon ymous
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`with each other. And this is undisputed betwee n th e parties.
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`Experts fro m both parties have use d these two ter ms
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`interchangeably a nd equated "with out experiencing an
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`electrical br eakdown condition" to "without arcing."
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`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`Slide 8 shows the two representative clai ms for the
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`'716 patent, clai ms 1 and 14 . Claim 1 is an apparat us clai m,
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`and clai m 14 is a method clai m.
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`Both clai ms ar e d irected at a s yste m and a method
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`for for ming a stro ngly -ionized plas ma without developing an
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`electrical br eakdown condition in the cha mber , whic h is the
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`last li mitation of both clai ms.
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`And this is achie ved b y first c reati ng -- gener ating
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`a weakl y-ionized plas ma fro m a fee d gas, as shown h ere as
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`ele ment A of both clai ms; followed b y the use of an electrical
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`pulse to transform the weakl y -ionized plas ma into a
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`strongly-ionized plas ma , el e ment B for both clai ms .
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`The li mitation " without developing an ele ctrical
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`breakdown condition" in the cha mb er is tied to ele ment B of
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`both clai ms, the s tep of or the power suppl y for tr ansfor ming
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`the we akl y-ionize d plas ma into a strongly -ionized pl as ma , it is
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`not tied to the fir st step, ele ment A, which is the g eneration of
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`a weakl y-ionized plas ma , the initial stage.
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`Slide 9 here identifies the grounds under review
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`through the various -- through the four IPR proceedi ngs. As
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`the Board c an s ee , Wang is the pri ma r y r eferenc e for all
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`clai ms of the '716 patent. And in t he 1099 IPR , Wa ng is the
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`only ref erence , because all the cla i ms are being re je cted under
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`anticipation grounds.
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`The Board is alre ad y fa miliar with the Wang
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`referenc e, so I wi ll not spend a lot of ti me going thr ough that.
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`Slide 10 here shows a side -b y-side co mparison of th e plas ma
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`deposition cha mb er disclosed b y the '716 patent and the
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`plas ma deposition cha mber disclosed b y Wang.
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`As you can see here, both deposition cha mb ers
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`have a cathode an d an anode, a gap betwe en the c athode and
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`anode, and a pulsed power supply. Wang's pulsed power
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`supply is highlighted in blue as el e ment 80 in the lower right
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`corner.
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`Going to slide 11, it is undisputed that Wang uses
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`its pulsed DC po wer supply to gen erate an elect rical pulse. To
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`highlight a portion of figure 7 on t he right, is desc ri bed b y the
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`specification as a train of negative voltage pulses.
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`This train of nega tive voltage pulses co mbined
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`with the DC voltage fro m suppl y el e ment 100 are ap plied to
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`electrical 14 to generate the power pulse shown in fi gure 6 on
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`the left of slide 1 1.
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`Slide 12 here ide ntifies the disputes for the three
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`independent claims again. Turning to slide 13, the first
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`dispute between t he parties is whet her the p rior art discloses
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`the li mitation " wi thout developing an electrical brea kdown
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`condition." Wan g discloses the same exact plas ma generation
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`methods as disclosed b y the '716 p atent.
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`Wang discloses that the lowe r port ion of the pulse,
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`Pb, fi rst energize s th e fe ed gas int o a weakl y -ionize d plas ma .
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`And then the higher powe r portion of the pulse, Pp, t ransfor ms
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`that weakl y-ionized plas ma into a strongly -ionized plas ma .
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`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`As shown he re, Wang discloses that the Pb l evel i s
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`chosen to be 1 kil owatt and the Pp leve l is prefe rabl y 1 ,000
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`ti mes higher, whi ch would be one mega watt .
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`On slide 14, Wang discloses that through this
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`method, the cha mber i mpedance ch anges relativel y l ittle
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`between the powe r levels, Pb and P p, since a plas ma alwa ys
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`exists in the cha mber .
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`Pet itioners have e xplained in our papers that this
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`disclosure of the i mpedance changing relativel y little indicates
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`to a person skilled in the art that t here is no electri cal
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`breakdown condition within the ch a mbe r. And this is what
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`Petitioner's exper t, Dr . K ortshagen, explained on the left.
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`Dr . Kortshagen e xplained that Wa ng's disclosure of
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`the i mpedanc e ch anging relativel y little between the two
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`power levels indicates to a person of ordinar y skill in the art
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`that no arcing occ urs when the high -power pulse, Pp , is
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`applied to the we akl y -ionized plasma .
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`Since an y a rcing would cause a dra stic change in
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`the cha mber i mp e dance, as the plas ma occur in short circuits.
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`In other words, i f there was an elec trical breakdown condition,
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`the cha mber i mp e dance will chang e drasticall y b y dr opping to
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`a value nea r z ero.
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`On the right is the deposition testimon y f ro m the
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`Patent Owner 's ex pert, Dr . Ha rtsough. Dr . Ha rtsough was
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`given an opportunity to testif y abo ut his understanding of
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`Wang's tea ching during his deposition. He confir med that the
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`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
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`fact that the i mpe dance changing r elativel y little in dicates that
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`there is c ertainl y no unifor m -- unipolar arcing and Dr .
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`Hartsough did not identif y an y other breakdown condition that
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`could occur witho ut affecting the impedance level within the
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`cha mbe r.
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`Given the eviden ce within this rec ord the
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`Petitioners have s hown b y a pr eponderance of evidence that
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`Wang discloses this condition without developing an electrical
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`breakdown condition.
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`Slide 16 here co mpares side -b y-side the disclo sure
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`of the '716 patent with the disclosure of Wang . The y both
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`disclose exactl y t he sa me technique for preventing a n
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`electrical br eakdown condition; that is to appl y a low -powe r
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`pulse first followed b y a high -power pulse. And Wa ng
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`discloses exactl y the s a me thing in its figure 6.
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`The '716 discloses as a mechanis m for preventing
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`electrical br eakdown condition the creation of a
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`weakl y-ionized plas ma first , followed b y a -- transfo r ming that
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`into a strongly -ionized plas ma . An d Wang discloses exactl y
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`the s a me mechani s m.
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`The '716 patent e xplains that the r eason wh y
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`electrical br eakdown condition is prevented is becau se of the
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`conductivity cr ea ted b y the weakl y -ionized plas ma within the
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`plas ma cha mber , the conductivity s ubstantially preve nts the
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`setup of a br eakdown condition. And Wang discloses exactl y
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`the sa me thing as well .
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
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`The onl y exceptio n is that Wang ex plains it in
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`ter ms of i mp edance, rather than co nductivity. As th e Board
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`knows, i mpedanc e is just another wa y of describing
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`conductivity. I mpedanc e is the in verse of conductivity.
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`Conductivity expl ains -- is a measu re ment of the e ase of
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`electron flow; wh ereas i mpedanc e i s just a me asure ment of
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`how difficult it is for the elect ron to flow through a valle y.
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`Wang discloses that the i mpedanc e changes
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`relativel y little between the powe r levels, the two power
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`levels. This indicates to a person of ordinar y skill in the art
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`that the conductivity cr eated b y th e weakl y -ionized plas ma is
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`si milar to, i f not exactl y the sa me as, the conductivit y of the
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`strong ly-ionized plas ma .
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`So there is no significant change in conductivity
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`between the weak l y -ionized plas ma and the strongl y - ionized
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`plas ma . And this is the reason given b y the '716 pat ent as to
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`wh y an electrical breakdown condition is prevented.
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`So co mpar ing the '716 and Wang si de -b y-side, the y
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`both disclose the sa me technique f or preventing an electrical
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`breakdown condition, the sa me me c hanis m, and the p h ysical - -
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`the sa me ph ysical pheno menon that leads to the prev ention of
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`an electrical brea kdown conditi on.
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`So turning to slide 17 here , looking at clai m
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`language of all four independent clai ms , the y all req uire this
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`li mitation of " wit hout developing an electrical break down
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`condition." For t he three apparatu s clai ms, clai ms 1 , 26, and
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`33, this li mitatio n is attached to th e power suppl y ele ment.
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`And for the meth od clai m, this li mitation is attached to the
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`step of suppl ying an electrical pulse ac ross the weak l y -ionized
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`plas ma .
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`Petitioners have s hown b y a pr eponderance of
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`evidence that Wa ng discloses that without developing an
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`electrical br eakdown condition li mi tation for all four of these
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`clai ms .
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`Turning to slide 18 now, in its resp onse the Patent
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`Owne r has presen ted several argu ments distinguishing the
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`Wang re ferenc e with regard to this li mitation. Fir st, the
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`Patent Owner pre sents argu ments d istinguishing between
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`voltage pulses and power pulses.
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`This differ ence b etween voltage pulses and power
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`pulses ma y b e r elevant for so me of the other patents , but it is
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`not relevant for the '716 patent. The '716 p atent, all the
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`independent claims recite the use of an ele ctrical pulse without
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`specif ying its t yp e. There is no r e ason, and the Pat ent Owner
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`has not presented an y argu ments o n wh y deter minin g an
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`electrical pulse s hould be construed to be nar rowed to a
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`particular t ype of electric al pulse.
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`But even if an el e ctrical pulse were to be li mited to
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`only either a voltage pulse or a po wer pulse, it doesn't reall y
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`matte r her e bec ause Wang disclose s both t ypes of pulses.
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`Wang shows a po wer pulse in figur e 6 and a voltage pulse in
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`figure 7.
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`

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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`
`Next, the P atent Owne r c riticizes an e mbodi ment ,
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`the figure 4 e mbodi ment f ro m Wan g as an e mbodi me nt that
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`could still lead to the generation of arcing. The figure 4
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`e mbodi ment is no t relied on b y the parties here -- b y the
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`Peti tioners here i n an y of the '716 IPR proc eedings.
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`The figure 4 e mb odi ment of Wang, as you ma y
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`recall, applies high -power pulses without maintaini ng a low Pb
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`power level in be tween.
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`And Wang explains that b y using this strateg y
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`because the plas ma has to be r eignited at ever y pul se. The re is
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`a chance that a rci ng could still occur. And Wang so lves that
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`proble m b y p rese nting the solution shown in figure 6, which is
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`maintaining a lo w power level Pb i n between the high power
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`pulses.
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`So Wang solves the prob le m that was identified in
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`figure 4. And the Petitioners here are onl y rel ying o n the
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`figure 6 e mbodi ment of Wang and are not rel ying on an y of the
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`-- an y of the discl osures relating to the figure 4 e mb odi ment.
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`So the P atent Owner's a rgu ments r elating t o the
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`figure 4 e mbodi ment are not reall y relevant to an y of the I PR
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`positions presented for the '716 pa tent.
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`Lastl y, the Patent Owner argues th at even Wang's
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`figure 6 e mbodi ment does not meet this li mitation be cause, as
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`you will hear fro m the P atent Own e r's counsel, the ' 716 -- the
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`Wang specificatio n never uses the words " without developing
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`an electrical brea kdown condition."
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`
`As a matter of la w to anticipate a li mitation,
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`identity o f ter min ology is not requi red. As the Feder al Circuit
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`has explained num e rous ti mes, a p rior art ref erence does not
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`need to use the sa me ter minolog y a s recited in the cl ai ms in
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`order to disclose a particular li mit ation. This is ex plained in
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`MPEP 2130, secti on 2131, as well as --
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`JUDGE C HANG: Excuse me , coun sel. I have a
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`question.
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Do you think MP EP -- can you
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`guys hear me?
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`MR. ZHOU: Yes .
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`JUDGE C HANG: Oka y. Do you think MPEP
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`applies here or ca n you cite us a direct quote, I mea n direct
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`case la w?
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e. And this is, th is is a lso
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`explained in the I n re Bond case , which is 910 F.2d 831,
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`Federal Circuit, 1990. And that wa s the case that the MP EP
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`section was cited.
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`JUDGE C HANG: I just want to distinguish that
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`because the M PEP is for exa minati on purposes for t he
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`exa miner . Her e we, we appl y cas e la w directl y.
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e, I understand. So the F ederal
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`Circuit precedent explains clearl y a s well that antici pation
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`does not require i dentity of te r minology. So the fac t that the
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`Wang specificatio n does not use the sa me ter minol og y as , as
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`the clai ms.
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`JUDGE C HANG: I think that we understand that,
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`but can you go through wh y one of ordinar y skill in the art,
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`we, Wang, would disclose those limitations?
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e. Going back to slide 8 -- 15
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`here, this is what the Petitione r's e xpert, Dr . Kortshagen,
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`explained. Wh en an ele ctrical bre akdown condition happens
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`within the cha mb er through arcing, the i mpedance would
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`drasticall y chang e as the plas ma s hort -circuits.
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`The plas ma would essentiall y for m, se rve as a
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`conductor betwee n the two electric al -- betwe en the cathode
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`and the anode, dr awing a high curr ent between those two
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`electrons.
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`So the i mpedance would instantaneously change to
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`a ver y lo w level . The fa ct that the i mpedance changes
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`relativel y little between Pb and Pp indi cates to a per son of
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`ordinar y skill in t he art that there i s no electrical br eakdown
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`condition.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Thank you.
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`MR. ZHOU: So b efore I go to the next argu ment, I
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`would be happ y t o address an y que stions the Board has
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`regarding the " without deve loping an electrical brea kdown
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`condition limitati on."
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`JUDGE C HANG: I a m good. Than k you.
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`
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`17
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`
`MR. ZHOU: Nex t for clai ms , independent clai ms
`
`14 and 26, those t wo clai ms are bei ng reviewed base d on a
`
`co mbination of Wang and Kudr yavt sev. The Patent Owne r h as
`
`argued that Wang cannot be co mbi ned with Kudr yav tsev.
`
`There are sever al reasons, there ar e multiple reasons to
`
`co mbine these two refe rences.
`
`As we discussed, Wang discloses using electrical
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`pulses to increase plas ma densit y, and Kudr yavtsev is a
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`tech nical paper th at studies the eff e cts of appl ying a certain
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`field, such as an electrical pulse in Wang, to a weakl y -ionized
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`plas ma to increas e its plas ma densit y.
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`In fact , Kudr yavtsev states, its stu dies are
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`irrelevant whenever a field is suddenly applied to a
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`weakl y-ionized gas.
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`Turning to slide 10, Wang's goal is to generate a
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`ver y high density plas ma as shown in the quote on t he top half
`
`of the slide.
`
`Kudr yavtsev prov ides a model for modeling
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`fast -stage ionization, so increasing the nu mb er of at o ms in
`
`excited states. As shown here in t he Kudr yavtsev q uote,
`
`Kudr yavtsev explains the conditions under which ele ctron
`
`density increases exclusively in ti me due to accu mu lation of
`
`ato ms in the lowe st excited states. So Kudr yavtsev provides a
`
`model for Wang o n how you would achieve a ver y hi gh density
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`plas ma .
`
`
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`18
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`
`One of the diff ere nces betwe en clai ms 14 and 26
`
`with the other two independent clai ms, clai ms 1 and 33, is that
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`14 and 26 require the generation of a strongl y -ionize d plas ma
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`achieved through exciting a to ms in the we akl y-ionize d plas ma .
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`That's a li mitation missing fro m cl ai ms 1 and 33.
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`Now, a person of skill in the art wo uld recognize
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`that an y ti me you appl y a potential differenc e bet we en two
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`electrodes, bet we en a cathode and an anode, the ato ms in
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`between those t wo electrodes will be excited b y the potential
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`energ y creat ed b y the potential voltage differ ence. This is a
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`basic ph ysical e ff ect that a person of skill in the art would
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`know.
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`To the extent that a pe rson of skill in the art does
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`not recogn ize this eff ect, Kudr yavt sev explains that when an
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`electrical field is applied to a weak l y -ionized plas ma , the
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`nu mber of excite d ato ms increases , which causes the plas ma
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`density to increas e. Kudr yavtsev, t herefore , confir ms the
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`physical mechani s m behind t he pla s ma densit y taugh t b y
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`Wang.
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`The Patent Owne r has presented se veral argu ments
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`on wh y Wang can not be co mbined with Kudr yavtsev . I think
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`mainl y the y recit e ph ysical differe nces like differ ences in
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`cha mbe r geo metr y, the absence of a magnetic field i n
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`Kudr yavtsev, and differenc es in ga s pressure bet wee n the two
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`referenc es.
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`
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`19
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`

`
`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`
`But Kudr yavtsev is not co mbined h ere for its
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`cha mbe r geo metr y, magnetic field, or gas pressure.
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`Kudr yavtsev is co mbined her e onl y to provide an ana l ytical
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`model that explains the e ff ects beh ind the Wang dev ice.
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`As I showed in a previous slide, Kudr yavtsev
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`explains that its model is applicable wheneve r a fiel d is
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`suddenly applied to a weakl y -ionized plas ma. In the Board's
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`Institution decision, the Boa rd has alread y explained that a
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`deter mination of obviousness based on the teachings fro m
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`multiple re ferenc es does not requir e an actual ph ysic al
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`substitution of ele ments. And the Board cited to the Feder al
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`Circuit case , In r e Mouttet, 686 F. 3d 1322.
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`The Board's de cision, Institution decision is
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`entirel y consistent with the Supre me Court's KS R de cision
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`which also found that direct ph ysic al substitution is not
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`required for an o bviousness finding. A person of or dinar y
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`skill in the art is also a person of o rdinar y creativit y, who can
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`account for these differences like ph ysical diffe rence s in
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`cha mbe r geo metr y and magnetic field and differ enc es in gas
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`pressure.
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`question?
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`JUDGE C HANG: Counsel, ma y I a sk you a
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`MR. ZHOU: Sur e.
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`JUDGE C HANG: Sorr y for the interruption. C an
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`you talk abou t th e level of ordinar y skill in the art in this
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`case? Be cause we talk about one o f ordinar y skill in the art
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`IPR2014-00818, -00819, -00821, -00827, and -01098 (Patent 6,853,142)
`IPR2014-00807, -00808, -01099, and -01100 (Patent 7,604,716)
`
`can co mbine this and understand the geo metr y and a djust the
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`para meters , but c an you elaborate on what is the lev el of
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`ordinar y skill in t he art?
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`MR. ZHOU: So t he parties a re in general
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`agree ment as to what the level of or dinar y skill in the art is.
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`And I think this is defined as a per son who holds a Bachelor's
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`of science degr ee in either ph ysics, material science , or
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`electrical/co mputer enginee ring wi th at least t wo ye ars of
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`work experienc e or equivalent in the field of plas ma -based
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`processing equipment .
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`And this is in the Patent Owner's e xpert's
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`declaration, Dr . Hartsough's decla ration, which is Exhibit 2004
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`to the '807 IP R pr oceeding at para g raph 20. And both sides
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`have generall y ag reed to this level of ordinar y

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