Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
`
`
`Paper No. 53
`Entered: August 7, 2015
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`____________
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`____________
`
`FUJITSU SEMICONDUCTOR, LIMITED, FUJITSU SEMICONDUCTOR
`AMERICA, INC., ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES, INC., RENESAS
`ELECTRONICS CORPORATION, RENESAS ELECTRONICS
`AMERICA, INC., GLOBAL FOUNDRIES U.S., INC.,
`GLOBALFOUNDRIES DRESDEN MODULE ONE LLC & CO. KG,
`GLOBALFOUNDRIES DRESDEN MODULE TWO LLC & CO. KG,
`TOSHIBA AMERICA ELECTRONIC COMPONENTS, INC., TOSHIBA
`AMERICA INC., TOSHIBA AMERICA INFORMATION SYSTEMS,
`INC., TOSHIBA CORPORATION, and THE GILLETTE COMPANY,
`
`Petitioners,
`
`v.
`
`ZOND, LLC,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`- - - - - - -
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
`- - - - - - -
`Oral Hearing Held on Thursday, May 28, 2015
`
`
`
`Before: KEVIN F. TURNER, DEBRA K. STEPHENS, JONI Y.
`CHANG, SUSAN L.C. MITCHELL, and JENNIFER MEYER CHAGNON,
`Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Thursday, May 28,
`2015, at 1:13 p.m., in Hearing Room A, taken at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
`
`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER GILLETTE:
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`DAVID L. CAVANAUGH, ESQ.
`Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP
`1875 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20006
`202-663-6025
`
`YUNG-HOON (Sam) HA, Ph.D., ESQ.
`Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr LLP
`7 World Trade Center
`250 Greenwich Street
`New York, New York 10007
`212-230-8800
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`JOANNE N. PAPPAS, ESQ.
`Senior Counsel
`The Procter & Gamble Company
`The Gillette Company
`One Gillette Park
`Boston, Massachusetts 02127
`617-463-4097
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER FUJITSU:
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`DAVID M. O'DELL, ESQ.
`GREGORY HUH, ESQ.
`Haynes and Boone LLP
`2505 North Plano Road
`Suite 4000
`Richardson, Texas 75082-4101
`972-739-6900
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`

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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`DAVID L. McCOMBS, ESQ.
`Haynes and Boone, LLP
`2323 Victory Avenue
`Suite 700
`Dallas, Texas 75219
`214-651-5533
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER TOSHIBA:
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`ROBINSON VU, ESQ.
`Baker Botts LLP
`One Shell Plaza
`910 Louisiana Street
`Houston, Texas 77002-4995
`713-229-1715
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER RENESAS ENTITIES:
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`PAVAN K. AGARWAL, ESQ.
`Foley & Lardner, LLP
`Washington Harbour
`3000 K Street, N.W., Suite 600
`Washington, D.C. 20007-5109
`202-945-6161
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER GLOBAL FOUNDRIES:
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`DAVID M. TENNANT, ESQ.
`White & Case LLP
`701 Thirteenth Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-626-3684
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`

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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER ADVANCED MICRO DEVICES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`BRUCE J. BARKER, ESQ.
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`Chao Hadidi Stark & Barker LLP
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`176 East Main Street
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`Suite 6
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`Westborough, Massachusetts 01581
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`508-366-3800
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`XIN-YI (Vincent) ZHOU, ESQ.
`O'Melveny & Myers LLP
`400 South Hope Street
`Los Angeles, California 90071-2899
`213-430-6000
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`( 1:13 p . m. )
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`J UDGE C HANG: Goo d a ft e rnoon . We l c o me ,
`
`e ve r yo ne . At this t i me I woul d like to h av e c ouns el in tr odu ce
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`yo u rs el ves and you r coll e agu es a nd b egi nning with th e
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`P e titi one r .
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: This i s Da ve C av an augh .
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`I ' m wi t h Wil me r Ha l e an d I r epr ese nt Gi ll ett e , on e o f th e
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`P e titi one rs in thi s I P R s e ri es . With me i s S a m Ha a lso f ro m
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`Wi l me r Ha l e re pre se ntin g Gill et te .
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`And we h av e a numb e r o f di f fe r ent P e titi one rs
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`wi th us t oda y. Wou ld th e Boa rd l ik e me t o int rodu ce e a ch
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`on e?
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`J UDGE C HANG: S u re .
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: P er hap s e a ch P etit ion er tha t
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`is app e ar ing could s ta te t he ir app ea r an ce .
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`M R . Mc C OMB S: Da vid M cCo mb s on beh al f o f
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`F u ji tsu . Wi th me is my p a r tn e r Davi d O' De ll .
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`J UDGE C HANG: Th ank yo u . We lc o m e .
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`M S . P APP AS : Joa nn e P app as with Gi ll ett e .
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`J UDGE C HANG: Th ank yo u .
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`M R . HUH: Gr ego r y Huh on b eha lf o f Fu jits u , with
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`Ha yn e s and Boone , a lso wi th Da vid Mc Co mb s and Da vid
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`O' De ll .
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`M R . VU: Ro binson Vu with B ake r B ott s fo r
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`To shib a .
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`J UDGE C HANG: Th ank yo u .
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`M R . AGARWAL: P a van Aga r wal wi th F ol e y &
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`La r dne r fo r th e Re ne sa s en titi es .
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`J UDGE C HANG: Th ank yo u v er y mu c h .
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`M R . TENNANT: Da vid Tenn an t wi th Whit e &
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`C a se fo r Glob al Fou ndr ie s .
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`J UDGE C HANG: Ok a y. Th ank yo u .
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`M R . ZHOU: Xin - Yi Zh ou o f O' M elv en y & M ye r s
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`f o r Adv anc ed Mic ro Dev ic es .
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`J UDGE C HANG: Th ank yo u .
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`M R . B AR KER : Goo d a ft e rnoon , You r Ho nor s .
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`B r uc e B a rk er fo r Zon d .
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`J UDGE C HANG: We l c o me . Th ank yo u . I t' s ni ce
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`to se e th e fa c es and the na me s toge th er fi nal l y.
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`Th is is the or al he a rin g fo r ca ses IP R 2014 -0047 7
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`a nd 47 9 invo lving P ate nt 8 ,12 5 ,155 , and also invo lvi ng
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`I P R20 14 - 00799 and 803 inv olvi ng P a ten t 7 ,808 , 184 .
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`Th e Boa rd insti tut ed t hes e fou r I nte r P ar tes
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`R ev ie ws l ast ye a r a nd we h ad s eve ra l ot he r p ro ce eding s th at
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`jo in ed with th ese p ro ce edi ngs . Th e t r ans cr ipt o f th is
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`c onso lid at ed o ra l h ea ri ng wil l be ent e re d in ea ch o f th e
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`jo ind er ed p ro ce edin gs a nd wil l b e us abl e fo r a ll c ase s .
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`6
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`C onsi st ent wi th th e B oa rd 's p r evious ord e r in t hes e
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`c as es , e ach pa rt y wi ll h av e 90 mi nut es , sta rt ing wi th t he
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`P e titi one r , wh o wi ll p roc e ed fi rst to p r es ent i ts c as e a s to the
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`c ha ll eng ed c la i ms, a nd Pe titi one r ma y r e s e rv e re butt al t i me ,
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`a nd th en fol lo wed b y t h e P at ent Own e r .
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`And at this ti me is t he r e a d e mo ns tr a tiv e f or t he
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`p ro ce edi ng?
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: Yes , Your Hon or .
`
`J UDGE C HANG: Ok a y. C oul d we h av e a cop y f o r
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`th e Re por te r as we ll as th e Pa ne l? Th ank yo u .
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: Good af te rnoo n . M a y it
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`pl e as e th e Bo a rd . I ' m Da v e C av ana ugh and I a m s pe ak ing on
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`b eh al f of th e P etit ion ers in th e su bje c t ma t te r IP Rs th at we
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`wi ll di scu ss tod ay.
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`Th e ot he r couns el o f re co rd h ave alr e ad y
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`in tr odu ced the ms e lv es for this or al p ro ce edi ng so I wi ll
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`p ro ce ed wi th my c o mme n ts .
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`Tod a y - -
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`J UDGE C HANG: S o rr y f o r th e i nte r rup tion . Do
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`yo u wan t to re se rv e a n y r ebu tt al time ?
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`M R . C AVANAUGH : Yes , Your Hon or . Than k
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`yo u fo r me n tion ing tha t . I would l ike 10 mi nut es of r ebu tt al
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`t i me .
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`Tod a y I wi ll a dd re ss t he t wo pa te nts , th e ' 155
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`p at ents and the '184 pat en ts , a long wi th th e si x oth er p eti tions
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`th at hav e b ee n join ed wi th th e m, a nd I wil l b eg in with an
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`ov e rvi e w o f th e pa t ents t he ms e lv es.
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`I wil l th en t alk abo ut th e g round s in stit ut ed b y t he
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`B oa rd . I wi ll lo ok at t he p rio r ar t . And th e pr ior a rt is
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`si mi l a r to the pr es ent ati on I gav e to t he Bo ar d with r eg a rdin g
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`th e '775 pa ten t so I wil l me nt i on the r e fe r enc es and I wi ll t alk
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`th rou gh so me o f th e si mi l a rit ies and s o me o f th e point s th at
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`a r e ra ise d he r e tha t ma y n o t h av e be en ne ed ed to r ais e in the
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`' 775 pat en t .
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`I wil l ta lk about th e su mma r y o f disp ute s with
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`r e spe ct to th e inde pe nde nt cla i ms . W e wi l l se e th at th e re is a
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`c l ai m c on st ruc tion i ssu e th at we wi ll t alk t hro ugh as well as
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`r e spond ing to the P a ten t Own er 's ar gu me n ts in this
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`p ro ce edi ng .
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`And I want to a lso t hen ta lk th rough o r sp e ak
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`a bout so me o f th e l i mi ta tions in the de pen den t c laims t h e
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`P a ten t Own er has e l ect ed to c hal leng e o r a rg u me nts th at the y
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`h av e ma d e .
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`Th e '184 and '15 5 p at ent ar e o f si mi la r t ec hnolo g y,
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`a lth ough no t r el ate d to in a pat en t s ens e , th e y a r e not
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`c ont inu ation s of th e '775 p at ent whi ch I spo ke abou t t wo da ys
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`a go , bu t t h e y do re l ate to me t hod and app a ra tus es o f
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`g en er ati ng st ron gl y - i oni zed pl as ma a nd co mp on ents o f th at .
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`S o we will be talki ng a bout s i mi lar t ech nolog y t h roug hout
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`mu c h of th e pr es ent at ion to da y.
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
`
`Th es e p at ents , t he ' 184 and th e '155 p at ent s a r e
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`r e lat ed as c ont inua tio ns . S o th e spe c ifi c atio ns ar e simi l a r .
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`Ju st to giv e co ntext to th e Boa rd , th e '184 and t he '155 pat en ts
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`we r e fil ed a f e w ye a r s a ft er the tec hnol og y th at 's de sc ri bed in
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`th e '775 pa ten t wa s fil ed .
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`S o we se e fr o m t h e - - I ' m o n sli de 4 n o w - - and
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`wh at we 'v e pr ovid ed is an illus tr atio n , th e '155 p at ent , fi gur e
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`1 , and colo r -c oded s o me o f th e li mi tat ions . And we s ee th e
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`a nod e a nd th e catho de , t he p uls ed po we r supp l y whic h is
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`si mi l a r to wha t we ha ve d is cuss ed , th e ma g ne ts . A pl as ma i s
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`f o r me d as it i s rep re se nte d th er e in re d . And t he r e is a fe ed
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`so ur c e , ga s f e ed sou r ce and a su bstr a te wh ic h is in blu e .
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`Al so , th e re i s a bi as po we r sup pl y wh ich we h av e
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`r e fl e cte d whi ch is n u mb e r 142 at th e bot to m o f the
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`i llust r ati on . S o so me o f the bas ic e l e me nts a r e kind o f l aid
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`ou t he r e , a nd we wi ll b e t alkin g abou t e a ch o f thos e a nd ho w
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`th e y r e la te to th e p ar ti cul ar cl ai m l i mi t at ions i n a mo me n t .
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`Th e cla i m l i mi t atio ns a s I hav e pu t on slid e 5 h e re ,
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`I ' ve tak en a rep r es ent ati ve cl ai m f r o m e a c h p at ent . '18 4
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`p at ent re la te s to a me t ho d an d ' 155 I h ave put up an app ar at us
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`c l ai m.
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`I ha ve h ighl ight ed t he cl ai m t e r ms th at a re
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`di sput ed b y t h e Pa t ent Own e r as bein g not me t b y t he pr io r a rt
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`o f re co rd o r th e pr io r a rt tha t wa s us ed i n th e g rounds of
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`un pat en tab ilit y t ha t was in stitu te d b y t he Bo a rd .
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`B ut ev en b efo r e ta lki ng a bout t he di sput ed
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`l i mi ta tions , I wo uld lik e to tal k a mo me n t abo ut th e
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`un dispu ted li mi t at ion and , i f you re c all , th er e was a di sput e
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`a bout one of the re f e ren c es , Wa ng , wh eth e r o r not i t h ad a
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`c a thod e th a t was po siti one d ad ja c ent to an a node .
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`And I wo uld no te f o r th e Bo a rd th at the c athod e
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`th at is pos itio ned a d jac ent to th e ano de i nsid e th e ch a mb e r is
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`th e su b ject of li mi tat ion C in t he '155 pat en t , cl ai m 1 , and
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`th at 's not di sput ed b y t h e P at ent Own e r in th is IP R s e rie s a s
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`b eing me t b y Wa ng in th e p rio r art, th e g roun ds in sti tut ed .
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`B ut t he P ate nt Own e r ha s id enti fie d a cou pl e
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`l i mi ta tions th at th e y p er c eiv e a s be ing d if f er ent th an wh at the
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`p rio r ar t dis clo ses . An d I would l ik e to tal k ab out th e t wo
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`th at the y i d enti f y. A vo lt age puls e - - and the y a r e re l ativ el y
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`th e s a me o n e ac h c l ai m - - a volt ag e pu lse hav ing at le as t on e
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`o f a con tr oll ed amp l i tud e an d a cont ro lle d r ise ti me .
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`And th en so me wo rds r ela ting to th e r ap id in c re as e
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`o f e le ct ron den sity, wh i c h w e will t alk abo ut , a nd the n th e
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`f o r ma ti on o f th e st ro ngl y - ion iz ed pl as ma o c cu rs -- a nd th is is
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`th e l i mi ta tion that is dis put ed -- with out fo r mi ng a n a r c . So
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`th e i ssu es in this I P R s e ri es h ave be en na r ro wed l arg el y
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`r e lat ing t o th ese two p a rti cul a r issu es .
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`J UDGE M I TC HELL: M r . C av an augh , I h av e a
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`qu est ion . I tho ught at one point yo u i n on e of th e I PR s , th e
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`47 9 , th er e was the fo r ms o f pl as ma wa s also in dis put e?
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: The fo r ms of pl as ma i s in
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`di sput e . I will add re ss th at in my p re se nta tion a li t tl e bi t l ate r
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`bu t it i s not p a rt o f th es e t wo cl aims . I t is cl ai m 1 7 . I wil l
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`a dd re ss th at wh en i t co me s .
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`J UDGE M I TC HELL: Oka y.
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`J UDGE TUR NER: P ard on me , c ouns elo r . I
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`a c tua ll y c ould n' t h ea r t he J udg e' s re ma r k . C ould yo u ma k e
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`su r e th at t he mi c rop hone s a r e on? I co uld h e ar yo u f in e .
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: As I und ers ta nd th e Ju dge 's
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`qu est ion , Ju dge M it ch ell ask ed wh eth e r or not t he f o r ma ti on
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`o f th e pl as ma , t he me a n s for fo r mi ng a pl as ma i s --
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`J UDGE TUR NER: I pi ck ed i t up fr o m c on te xt .
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`Th ank yo u . I just w a nt ed to ma k e su r e I cou ld h ea r - - r ep eat
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`yo u r q ues tion . Ve r y g ood . Th ank yo u .
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`M R . C AVANAUGH: Tha nk you . S o on s lid e 6 I
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`id en tif ie d th e gr oun ds th at wer e i nst itut ed , and ma n y o f th e
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`s a me r e f er en c es th at I h ave al r eady d e s c rib ed in s ome d e t ai l
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`in r eg ar d s to t he '77 5 pa ten t I P Rs ar e u se d al so in this se ri es
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`o f p at ents . We se e Wa ng , Ku dr ya vt sev , and we also s e e
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`M oz gri n an d th e s e rie s o f cl ai ms th at h av e b een found to b e - -
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`to hav e -- th at the gr ounds hav e p re se nt ed a r ea son abl e
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`l ike lihoo d th at the c lai ms a r e u npat ent abl e ar e re pr es ent ed
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`h er e .
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`I wil l ta lk about e a ch o f th e p ri ma r y r e f e r en ces
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`a nd th en I wi ll wo rk th ro ugh so me o f th e d ep end ent c l ai ms .
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
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`S o th e pi e ce o f p rio r ar t th at I wil l t alk abo ut f ir st
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`is Wa ng . We a r e f a mi l ia r wi th Wang as c re ati ng a
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`hi gh - den sit y p la sma . Th e s tr uct ure of Wa ng is rep re se nt ed
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`h er e on slid e 7 as p rovi ding k ind of th e b asi c e le me nt s o f a
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`pl as ma f o r ma t ion d evi c e . And th er e is a n an ode whi ch i s in
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`ye l l o w an d th e c ath ode as se mb l y whi ch is in g r een . Th e re is a
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`pu lse d po wer suppl y wh i ch is on th e lo we r r ight -h and sid e o f
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`f igu r e 1 , a high de nsi t y pl as ma wh i ch i s fo r me d , 42 , a ma g n et
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`a ss e mb l y whi ch is u p on th e to p , and a su bst ra te whi ch i s
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`di spos ed on the -- kind of in blu e wh ich is dis pos ed ki nd o f
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`p roxi ma t e th e a nod e .
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`And , yo u kno w, we s ee t he b as ic c on figu r ation .
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`Th e re is a bia s powe r suppl y wh i ch go es t o wa rd t he su bst ra te
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`a nd also I 'v e r e fle c ted the gas f eed s our c e on th e righ t -h and
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`si de . So t ha t' s the ba si c st ru ctu re o f wh at i s de sc ribe d in
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`Wa n g .
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`And we s e e ag ai n th at Wa ng is v ery s i mi l a r i n
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`st ru ctu r e to wh at is de sc rib ed and re pr es ent ed in th e c l ai ms o f
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`th e '155 and '1 84 p at ents . And th at' s on slid e 8 .
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`Th e n ext r ef e ren ce th at we d esc ri be , an d I will just
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`to uch on thi s a mo me n t a nd th en we wil l ge t on to so me o f t he
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`di sput ed l i mi ta tions , but ju st to intr odu ce Kud r ya vtse v , to the
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`e xt ent t ha t th e c re a tion o f a st rongl y - i oni zed pl as ma is not
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`c l ea r fro m Wa n g , Kud r ya vt sev r ecog niz es tha t th e cr e ati on o f
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`a st rong l y- ioni z ed p las ma i s d es c rib ed and taug ht and kno wn
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`in th e a rt and t alks abou t an el e ct ron d ens it y i nc re as ing
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`e xplo siv el y.
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`S o th at is , a s th e P e titi one rs h av e a r tic ul ate d in t he
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`p eti tion and i n our r epl y, k ind of con fi r ma t ion t hat Wa n g is
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`d es cr ibing the high l y - ioni z ed pl asma . S o h e re we ge t to - -
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`a nd th is is on sl ide 10 -- the va rio us d isput es r el ating t o th e
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`in dep end ent cl aims a n d , a s Judg e M it ch ell no te d e ar li e r , cl ai m
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`17 , the r e is a di spu te abou t f or mi ng a pl as ma a nd I wi ll
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`a dd re ss th at af te r I h ave g one th roug h th e disp ut es wi th r eg a rd
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`to al l of th e ind ep end ent cl ai ms .
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`And he r e I want to just t ouc h on , you kno w, th e
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`di sput es , yo u know, wh eth e r Wa ng a lon e o r in co mb in at ion
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`di sc los es th e contr oll ed a mp lit ude , a co nt roll ed ris e ti me , a s
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`r ep r es ent ed in the c lai m, a n d as the Bo a rd found in th e
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`d ec isio n on in stit ut ion , wh eth e r Wa ng di sc los es witho ut
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`f o r mi ng a n a r c . And I wi ll t alk thr ough tha t p art icul a r
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`l i mi ta tion .
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`And th en I do want to add res s th e c o mb in atio n of
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`th e re f er en ce s so th at the Bo a rd und er st ands t he P etit ion er 's
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`po siti on a nd a rgume n t s th at the r efe r en ce s c an b e comb i n ed .
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`And in cla i m 1 7 I wi ll add res s in se qu enc e .
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`S o b ef or e I ge t into th e pa rt icu la r di sput es I jus t
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`wa nt t o t ake a mo me n t to t alk abo ut the cl ai m c o nst ru cti ons ,
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`yo u kno w, and i de nti f y t he o nes tha t h av e be en const ru ed
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`13
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`a c ros s th e t wo p at ent s , thi s we akl y a nd st ro ngl y - ioni z ed
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`pl as ma , a n d th en th e re is a lot o f me a n s -pl us - fu nctio n .
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`I ha ve als o id entif i ed th e li mi t at ion wh ic h th e
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`B oa rd con str ued re ga rd ing a volt age puls e h avi ng a t l e ast on e
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`o f a con tr oll ed amp l i tud e an d a cont ro lle d r is e ti me . S o th at 's
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`r e fl e cte d in bo th a me a n s -plus - func tio n li mi t ati on as well as
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`a n a ppa r atus cl aim l i mi t ati on .
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`No w, the P at ent Own e r ha s p ropose d a ne w
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`c onst ru ct ion o f thos e p a rti cul ar te rms a n d I will addr e ss tho se
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`in a mo me n t . And also whil e th e P a te n t Own er hasn 't
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`a r tic ul ate d a n e w c onst ru ct ion o r a c onst ru ct ion for fo r mi ng a
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`pl as ma , t h e y do ha ve an int erp r et atio n th at th e y b el ie ve
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`di stin guish es the r e f er en ce s f ro m t h e c la i m a nd we wi ll
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`a dd re ss th at bo th a s a cl ai m c o nst ru cti on iss ue and a s kin d o f
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`a t aci t c la i m c onst ru ctio n iss ue and b as ed on t he te chn olog y
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`th at 's bei ng d esc rib ed in th e p ate nts and cl ai me d .
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`S o th is tu rns into th e cl ai m l i mi t atio n - - righ t no w
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`I ' m o n slid e 12 - - a nd I wil l not e th er e ar e so me , i n my
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`p re se nta tion I ju st want to go t h r oug h th e pa ge , t he sl id e
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`s equ en ce . The r e a r e so me s li des th at ar e ou t o f se qu en ce b ut
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`th e y a r e g oing t o b e c or r ec tl y s eque nc ed in my p r e se nt atio n so
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`in th e mi ddl e o f th e p re sen ta tion you will s e e sli de 36 or
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`so me t hi ng .
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`Wh a t we did was to kind o f i nte rl ea f so me sl id es
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`th at had be en su ppl ie d to th e op posi ng c ouns el bu t we did n' t
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`wa nt t o r enu mb e r th e m t o just ma ke su re tha t th er e we r e no
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`is su es wit h r eg ard t o ch ang ing th e sl id es . So th at 's wh y yo u
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`wi ll s ee the seq uen ce . I t ri ed t o be v er y c a r e ful to id en t if y
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`wh ich slid e it is th at I ' m o n , an d the r e cor d wil l be cl e ar tha t
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`I ' m t a lk ing abou t th e nu mb e r th at is o n th e sli de .
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`And so wit h th at , th e Pa te nt Own er in its
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`p re li mi n ar y r e spons e id en ti fie d a pr opos ed cons tr uctio n , an d
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`f o r th e t er m, yo u kn o w, "g en er at ing at t he o utput a vo lt age
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`pu lse hav ing at l ea st on e o f a co nt rol le d a mp li tud e and a
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`c ont rol led ri se time . " An d t he cl ai m l a ngu ag e f ollows .
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`Th e Boa rd cons tru ed th e t e r m a s th e Pat en t Owne r
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`h ad req ue ste d . And in th e Pat en t Own e r' s r esp ons e th e Pa te nt
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`Own e r wa nts to add so me wo rds to th e cons tru ct ion a bout
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`wh eth e r o r not t he r e an a mp l itud e o r ris e ti me a r e con tro ll ed
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`v ar ia ble s th at ar e di r ec ted or r est ra in ed to a t a rge t vo lt age
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`l ev el and/o r a r ise ti me l e vel .
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`And so I will be ta lki ng a bout bo th th e
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`c onst ru ct ion th at th e Bo ard ado pted and t he p rop osed
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`c onst ru ct ion th at th e Pa te nt Own er id en tif ie d in th ei r
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`r e spons e .
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`And wha t I ' m g oing to do i s go to sl id e 14 ,
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`b ec aus e t his add re ss es ki nd o f so me of th e issu es with r eg ard
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`to th eir ne w con st ru ctio n . And t he B oa rd , as I me n tio ned a
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`mo me n t ago , adopt ed the P at ent Own e r' s pr opos ed
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`c onst ru ct ion , a nd I thi nk th at 's i mpo rt ant to re cogni z e th at
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`on c e th e B oa rd ado pte d th ei r co nst ru ctio n an d th e Pa t ent
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`Own e r ha d an oppo rtu nit y t o r ev iew t he cons tru ct ion t ha t th e y
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`h ad p ropo sed , they s o ught a di f fe r ent con st ruc tion , a
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`c onst ru ct ion wit h mo r e wo rds .
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`And th e y ha ve n ot a rgu ed th e c onstr uc tion tha t th e
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`B oa rd adop te d . Th e y a r gue d in the i r r espo ns e th e
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`c onst ru ct ion wit h mo r e wo rds .
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`And , fi nal l y, I think tha t th e , you kn o w, we wi ll
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`s ee as we l ook a t th e su ppo rt th at th e y p rovi de , tha t th e Pa te nt
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`Own e r p rovid es fo r th ei r n e w c onst ru ctio n , is all b as ed on
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`e xt rins ic evi den ce an d not evid en ce th at is in th e
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`sp e ci fi cat ion , ce rt ain l y not evi denc e tha t' s in t he cla i ms . And
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`we b eli ev e , th e Pe tit ion er s be li eve th at the ne w const ru ct ion
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`is i mp ro pe r .
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`And I ' m g oin g to go ba ck to slid e 13 b e cau se this
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`Er oni ni re f er en ce is wha t th e P at ent Owne r id ent if ies as b ein g
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`th e su ppo rt for the se ne wl y - add ed wo rds to th e c onst ru ctio n
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`th at the B o a rd a dop ted .
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`And so th es e p ar ti cul a r iss ues , and we don 't ne ed
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`to go th roug h a ll o f wh at Eroni ni de sc ri bes . I t hink i t is
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`i mp o rt ant to r e cogn iz e fi rst th at Eron ini i s ex tr insi c e vid en ce .
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`I t h asn 't b e en consi de r ed b y a n yone be fo r e thi s pa rti cul a r
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`r a isi ng of Eron ini in this pro c eed ing .
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`And th e se con d thi ng I would not e is th at to the
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`e xt ent t ha t this is op e ra ting t o t alk a bout a fe edb a ck s ys t e m,
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`wh eth e r op en o r clo sed f ee dba ck , thi s ha ppe ns to b e a c los ed
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`f e edb a ck s ys te m, bu t th e f e edb ack s ys t e m i s , yo u kno w, ag ain
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`so me t hi ng th at i s n e wl y a dd ed t o wh er e t he P ate nt Own e r is
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`a rg uing p at ent ab il it y.
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`And so I thin k tha t lo oking at t he c onst ru ct ion ,
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`a nd I ' m ju st go ing t o go b ac k to the co nst ru ction , I thi nk th e re
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`a r e t wo ma i n t ak ea wa ys . Th e f ir st on e is un d er eit her
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`c onst ru ct ion th e P e titi one rs h av e a r tic ul ate d th at the r e is a --
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`th at the r ef e re nc es t ha t we r e ap pli ed b y t h e Bo a rd and t he
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`g roun ds th at we re in stit ut ed me e t th e li mi t at ion and e sp ec ial l y
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`th e l i mi ta tion witho ut th e addit iona l wo rds tha t th e P a te n t
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`Own e r put in a ft er th e d eci sion o n in stit utio n whe n th e y go t
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`wh at t he y we r e see king f ro m a c onst ru ctio n .
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`And I wi ll t alk abou t ho w Wa ng dis clo ses this .
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`No w I ' m o n sl ide 15 . And I thin k it is i mp o rt ant to st a rt
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`p er hap s wh er e the P at ent Owne r is st a rt i ng th ei r a rgu me n t
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`b ec aus e I th ink it is i mp or tan t to wa lk t hro ugh th e issu es and
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`id en tif y wh e r e the P at ent Owne r ha s not id enti fi ed a nd no t
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`a r tic ul ate d wh y c e r tai n li mi t at ions a r e me t b y Wa n g in Wa ng 's
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`di sc losu re .
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`S o in slid e 15 we p re se nt Wa ng , f igu r e 4 , a nd wh at
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`th is is , th e po wer pu lse s , we ta lked abou t thos e b e fo re , th e
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`po we r pul ses a re wh at g en er at e pl as ma . An d ea ch pul se , as
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`th e qu ot e on th e top of s lid e 15 p rovi des , yo u kn o w, " th e
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`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-00803 (Patent 7,808,184)
`
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`e f f ec tiv e ch a mb e r i mp e da nc e d ra ma ti ca ll y c h ang es b et wee n
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`th e t wo p h ase s ."
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`S o , you kno w, whe n th e re i s no p las ma , o f cou rs e ,
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`o r a lit tle bit o f pl as ma , t he r e is low i mp e d enc e -- th er e i s on e
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`l ev el o f i mp e da nce an d a d if f er ent l ev el o f i mp e da nce wh en
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`th e re is , wh en th e po we r pul se i s app li ed . Th at in dic a tes tha t
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`th e re i s so me p l as ma t h at h as b een f o r me d o r is b eing fo r me d .
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`And th e se con d quo te , " wh er e chamb e r i mp e d anc e
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`is ch ang ing , th e po we r puls e wi dth is pr e fe r abl y s pe ci fi ed
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`r a the r t han the cur r ent or v olt ag e pul se widths . "
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`S o I thin k th er e ar e t wo th ings t hat th e Pe tit ione rs
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`wou ld li ke t he Boa rd to app re ci at e f r o m t ha t quot e . Th e fi rst
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`on e is th at th e i mp ed anc e i s ch ang ing , and the po we r pu lse
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`wi dth , wh en th e imp e d an c e is ch angi ng , th e po we r pul se width
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`is pr e fe r abl y s pe ci fi ed . Th at 's p r ett y c l e ar .
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`I thi nk th at t he r e is ano th er le ar ning t ha t ha ppen s
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`f r o m h e re in loo kin g a t th e wo rds th e po we r puls e wid th is
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`p re f e rab l y supp lie d r at he r th an t he c ur r ent o r vo lt age puls e
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`wi dths . So Wa ng hi ms e l f is sa yi ng th at I h av e th re e op tions .
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`Wh e n i mp e da nc e is ch ang ing , p re f e r abl y d o th e
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`po we r pul se . And I th ink it is i mp o rt ant t o not e th at the r e a r e
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`t wo oth er opti ons sp e ci f ying the cur r ent or spe ci f yi ng t he
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`po we r pul se - - the vol tag e pu lse wid th . And I wi ll ta lk abou t
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`th at in a mo me n t .
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`18
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`

`
`Cases IPR2014-00477 and IPR2014-00479 (Patent 8,125,555)
`Cases IPR2014-00799 and IPR2014-0080