In The Matter Of:
`
`EASTMAN KODAK COMPANY vs.
`CTP INNOVATIONS, LLC
`
`JOHAN SUETENS
`March 26, 2015
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`236 Adams Avenue
`Memphis, TN 38103
`901-523-8974
`
`Original File 21136cc.txt
`
`Min-U-Script® with Word Index
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 1
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`
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`
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`
`
`EASTMAN KODAK COMPANY vs.
`CTP INNOVATIONS, LLC
`
`JOHAN SUETENS
`March 26, 2015
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`236 Adams Avenue
`Memphis, TN 38103
`901-523-8974
`
`Original File 21136cc.txt
`
`Min-U-Script® with Word Index
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 1
`
`
`
`
`
`
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`1
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` 1 IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` 2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` 3
`
` 4 EASTMAN KODAK COMPANY, CASE IPR 2014-0788
`
` 5 AGFA CORPORATION ESKO SOFTWARE BVBA 2014-0789
`
` 6 and HEIDELBERG, USA 2014-0799
`
` 7 Petitioners 2014-0791
`
` 8 vs.
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` 9 CTP INNOVATIONS, LLC, PATENT 6,738,155
`
`10 PATENT OWNER 6,611,349
`
`11 Respondent
`
`12 ___________________________________/
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`13
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`14
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`15 The deposition of JOHAN SUETENS was held
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`16 on Monday, March 23, 2015, commencing at 9:04 a.m., at
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`17 the Law Offices of Oblon, McClelland, Maier & Neustadt,
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`18 1940 Duke Street, Alexandria, Virginia 22314, before
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`19 Janice Jones, RPR, CLR, Notary Public.
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25 REPORTED BY: Janice Jones, RPR, CLR
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
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`2
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` 1
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` 2 APPEARANCES:
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` 3
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` 4 ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS:
`
` 5 W. EDWARD RAMAGE, ESQUIRE
`
` 6 Baker, Donelson, Bearman,
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` 7 Caldwell & Berkowitz, PC
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` 8 211 Commerce Street, Suite 800
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` 9 Nashville, Tennessee 37201
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`10 Telephone: 615.726.5600
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`11 Facsimile: 615.726.0464
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`12 Email: eramage@bakerdonelson.com
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`13
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`14 ON BEHALF OF THE RESPONDENT:
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`15 MICHAEL L. KIKLIS, ESQ.
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`16 Oblon, McClelland, Maier & Neustadt, L.L.P.
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`17 1940 Duke Street
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`18 Alexandria, Virginia 22314
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`19 Telephone: 703.413.3000
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`20 Facsimile: 703.413.2220
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`21 Email: mkiklis@oblon.com
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`3
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` 1 INDEX
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` 2 Deposition of Johan Suetens
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` 3 March 26, 2015
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` 4
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` 5 Examination By: Page
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` 6 Mr. Ramage 4
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` 7
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` 8 Exhibit No. Marked
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` 9 (NONE WERE MARKED)
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`4
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` 1 PROCEEDINGS
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` 2 Whereupon,
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` 3 JOHAN SUETENS,
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` 4 was called for examination, having been first duly
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` 5 sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing
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` 6 but the truth, was examined and testified as
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` 7 follows:
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` 8 DIRECT EXAMINATION
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` 9 BY MR. RAMAGE:
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`10 Q Mr. Suetens, my name is Edward Ramage, and
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`11 I am the attorney for the patent owner in these four
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`12 IPRs, Inter Partes Review, proceedings before the
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`13 Patent Trademark Office.
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`14 We are here today, because you have
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`15 submitted a declaration; and I believe, it is the
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`16 identical declaration in all four of those IPRs.
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`17 A (Indicating.)
`
`18 Q Just for the record, those IPRs are IPR
`
`19 2014-0788, 0789, 0790 and 0791. They are for the two
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`20 patents; U.S. Patent Number 6,738,155 and U.S. Patent
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`21 Number 6,611,349.
`
`22 Now, based upon your declaration,
`
`23 Mr. Suetens, I don't believe that you have entered any
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`24 opinion with regard to those patterns or their validity
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`25 or invalidity. Is that correct?
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
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`CTP Exhibit 2016
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`5
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` 1 A Could you repeat that because I didn't get
`
` 2 that too much?
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` 3 Q Your declaration does not mention anything
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` 4 about either of those two patents. Is that correct?
`
` 5 A No. That is true. That is true. Can I
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` 6 make a remark before --
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` 7 Q Certainly.
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` 8 A -- we start off? Because when I was --
`
` 9 when I was flying over here I went -- I leafed through
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`10 the documents and I have to say that there are two
`
`11 typos. It's the same typo but, apparently, they made a
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`12 mistake. It's in Chapter 11, Chapter --
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`13 MR. KIKLIS: Paragraph.
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`14 A Sorry. Paragraph 11 and Paragraph 12.
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`15 Q All right. What is that correction?
`
`16 A It says, "17 March 1997"; it should be
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`17 1998.
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`18 Q Very good.
`
`19 A So...
`
`20 Q I was going to ask you about that --
`
`21 A Yeah.
`
`22 Q -- during this deposition.
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`23 A I saw it on the way over here, and I said,
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`24 'what did they do?' So -- but okay. Sorry for that.
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`25 Q It's a clear typo.
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`6
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` 1 A Yes.
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` 2
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` Q The actual exhibits do show 1998. I was
`
` 3 going to ask you about that.
`
` 4 A Okay.
`
` 5 Q Well, thank you very much.
`
` 6 So you are not here to express any opinion
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` 7 about the validity of those two patents. Correct?
`
` 8 A Not at all.
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` 9 Q I have your declarations as Petitioner's
`
`10 Exhibit 1022 and 1023 in the four individual IPRs. I
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`11 see you have a copy of that in front of you. Is that
`
`12 right? There is an exhibit number on the bottom
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`13 right-hand side?
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`14 A Yeah, I have 1023 here.
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`15 Q All right.
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`16 A Yeah.
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`17 Q And those two exhibit numbers are actually
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`18 identical declarations. Is that correct? If you would
`
`19 like, here, I have a copy of it --
`
`20 A Yeah.
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`21 Q -- 1022 so you can take a comparative look.
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`22 A Let me see. I don't have the 1022. I have
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`23 a 1023.
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`24 Q Right. I mean, go ahead and take a look at
`
`25 my copy of 1022. What I want to establish is simply --
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`7
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` 1 I don't want to have to keep referring back to
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` 2 particular exhibit numbers.
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` 3 Since your declaration appears to be
`
` 4 identical in both, I will refer to the 1023 with the
`
` 5 understanding that it is the same declaration in all
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` 6 proceedings.
`
` 7 A Yes. Okay.
`
` 8 Q Very good. Thank you.
`
` 9 A There we go.
`
`10 Q Attached to that declaration you have, I
`
`11 believe, four documents.
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`12 A (Indicating.)
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`13 COURT REPORTER: Yes?
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`14 THE WITNESS: Yes.
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`15 COURT REPORTER: Thank you.
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`16 MR. RAMAGE: All right.
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`17 MR. KIKLIS: Make sure you verbalize your
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`18 answers, Johan.
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`19 THE WITNESS: Sorry?
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`20 MR. KIKLIS: Make sure you verbalize your
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`21 answers.
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`22 THE WITNESS: Yeah. Okay. Sorry. I'm not
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`23 used to this.
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`24 BY MR. RAMAGE:
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`25 Q The first is Attachment A, which is what we
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`8
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` 1 are referring to as the Apogee document. Is that
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` 2 correct?
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` 3 A Yes.
`
` 4 Q All right. Then we have Attachment B,
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` 5 which is the press briefing dated May 28, 1998. Is
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` 6 that correct?
`
` 7 A Yes.
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` 8 Q We have Attachment C, which is entitled,
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` 9 "World's First True PDF-Based Workflow Systems Ships in
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`10 June".
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`11 A Yes.
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`12 Q Dated May 28, 1998?
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`13 A Yes.
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`14 Q Then finally we have Attachment D, which is
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`15 a single page?
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`16 A Yes.
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`17 Q It looks like some form of purchase order
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`18 or a screen shot showing a purchase order?
`
`19 A Yeah. It's a screen shot of an archiving
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`20 system.
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`21 Q Very good. We will get to that eventually.
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`22 A Yeah.
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`23 Q Mr. Suetens, when were you born?
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`24 A On the 20th of September 1960.
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`25 Q Very good. Where were you born?
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`9
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` 1 A In Belgium, in Antwerp.
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` 2 Q Very good. Can you give me just a very
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` 3 brief overview of your formal education?
`
` 4 A Yes, I studied communications science for
`
` 5 three years and -- do you want what I studied before
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` 6 that because I don't know what --
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` 7 Q Was that at a university?
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` 8 A No. It was a high school, high school, or
`
` 9 a college. I don't know what the expression here is.
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`10 Q All right. What age were you when you
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`11 finished that?
`
`12 A I was 23, I think -- 22 or 23.
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`13 Q That would probably be the equivalent of
`
`14 our college then?
`
`15 A Yeah, yeah, probably. Yeah.
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`16 Q What college was that?
`
`17 A It was called the PHITC, which is
`
`18 provincial high school of applied communications
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`19 sciences, translated into English.
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`20 Q And was that in Antwerp?
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`21 A Yeah, exactly.
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`22 Q For whom did you go to work after finishing
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`23 that education?
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`24 A I went -- I have to recall. So I did -- I
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`25 worked for AGFA Graphics for one year, which was a
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`10
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` 1 preliminary contract, and then after that, I worked for
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` 2 another company.
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` 3 Then I went to work for AGFA again, so then
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` 4 that was when I started my long career.
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` 5 Q What was the first year that you worked for
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` 6 AGFA?
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` 7 A In 1984.
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` 8 Q 1984?
`
` 9 A Yeah.
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`10 Q Then you said you went back to AGFA after a
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`11 year in the other place?
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`12 A Yeah.
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`13 Q So that would have been 1986?
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`14 A 1985, 1985.
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`15 Q 1985?
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`16 A Yes.
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`17 Q You have been at AGFA ever since?
`
`18 A Yes.
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`19 Q You are currently employed by AGFA?
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`20 A Yes.
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`21 Q What is your current title?
`
`22 A It's -- to be honest, communications
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`23 manager but -- well, yeah. It's a communications
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`24 manager. Yeah.
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`25 Q Is there a particular department you work
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`11
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` 1 for?
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` 2 A Yes. It's called Global Communications.
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` 3 Q All right. How many people work in that
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` 4 department?
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` 5 A About 11.
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` 6 Q And you manage that entire department?
`
` 7 A No. No.
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` 8 Q You just work in that department?
`
` 9 A Yeah, exactly.
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`10 Q Do you manage anybody else or the people
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`11 who work for you?
`
`12 A No.
`
`13 Q All right. What do you do as part of being
`
`14 a manager?
`
`15 A The -- well, what I do is I produce tools,
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`16 marketing tools, communication tools in order to
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`17 promote our products so that they get sold.
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`18 Q What do you mean by "communication tools"?
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`19 A Well, it's the communication mix. It
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`20 consists of any kind of promotional material, which is
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`21 folders, brochures, films, testimonials done by
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`22 customers, feeding the Internet, our websites and
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`23 nowadays, the social -- feeding our social channels
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`24 like Facebook and Twitter.
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`25 Q Do you write those materials?
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`12
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` 1 A I'm sorry?
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` 2 Q Do you, personally, write those materials?
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` 3 A Well, no. I used to do it in the past but
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` 4 we don't now because we used to be 20; and we are less,
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` 5 so we have to outsource that.
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` 6 Q But you manage that process?
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` 7 A Yeah.
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` 8 Q All right. In Paragraph 4 of your
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` 9 declaration, if you have a copy in front of you --
`
`10 A Yeah.
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`11 Q -- you say in 1998 you were responsible for
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`12 marketing-communications of commercial printing in the
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`13 marketing-communication department within AGFA
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`14 Graphics.
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`15 A (Indicating.)
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`16 Q Is that the same department that you just
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`17 told me about?
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`18 A Yes.
`
`19 Q It just changed its name?
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`20 A Yeah, it -- it changes a lot over the time.
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`21 Yeah.
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`22 Q What was your title back in 1998?
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`23 A I think it was -- to be honest, I don't
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`24 recall that, too. It would have been like -- something
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`25 like communications responsibility or something like
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`13
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` 1 that.
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` 2 Q When did you become a manager?
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` 3 A Sorry?
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` 4 Q You said you are currently a manager. When
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` 5 did you become a manager?
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` 6 A It must have been about 10 years ago.
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` 7 Q All right. In 1998, were your duties any
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` 8 different than they are now?
`
` 9 A A little bit. A little bit. Now, I'm more
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`10 responsible for corporate identity than at that time.
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`11 Q What would you have been responsible for at
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`12 that time?
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`13 A Well, for the whole communication mix of
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`14 the commercial printing section of our division.
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`15 Q What does that actually mean in terms of
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`16 what you would produce or what materials you would
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`17 provide?
`
`18 A Yeah. Well, it's -- it's a bit technical
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`19 but AGFA Graphics consists of a couple of segments, as
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`20 we call them. So we produce products for the newspaper
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`21 industry for the commercial printers for the wide
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`22 format printing industry nowadays which is popular,
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`23 also security; we have software for that.
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`24 All of those groups have their own
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`25 responsibles, so I was responsible at that time for
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`14
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` 1 commercial printing and now I'm responsible for the
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` 2 wide format.
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` 3 Q So you are currently responsible for wide
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` 4 format?
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` 5 A Exactly, yeah.
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` 6 Q What do you mean by "wide format"?
`
` 7 A Yeah. It's printers that we produce, inks
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` 8 that we produce ourselves, so for any kind of point of
`
` 9 purchase or point of sales, displays and banners. So
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`10 we produce the printers that prints the posters and --
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`11 yeah.
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`12 Q So, in other words, by wide format you mean
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`13 some paper size that is bigger than an 8-4 or an 8 1/2
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`14 x 11 generally?
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`15 A Yeah. Typically, yeah, yeah.
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`16 Q All right. Are there people who are
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`17 responsible for commercial printing within your same
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`18 department, though, currently working with you?
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`19 A Yeah. I mean, we have -- we are -- the
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`20 structure of our organization of the Global
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`21 Communications Department is different than at that
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`22 time. So now we have one boss who is responsible for
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`23 coordinating the communications for the whole group.
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`24 Q And what is his name?
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`25 A Jan Beernaert.
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`15
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` 1 Q Could you spell that for the court
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` 2 reporter, please?
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` 3 A Yeah. The family name is B double
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` 4 E-R-N-A-E-R-T, and his first name is Jan, J-A-N.
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` 5 Q All right. And you report directly to him?
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` 6 A Yeah.
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` 7 Q You are responsible for wide format?
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` 8 A Wide format and corporate identity.
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` 9 Q All right. Who is responsible for
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`10 commercial printing right now?
`
`11 A Well, I would say Jan.
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`12 Q There is no other individual equivalent to
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`13 yourself?
`
`14 A No -- yeah, well, I have another colleague
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`15 but she is responsible just for translations and
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`16 printing, so not for putting collateral together.
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`17 Q All right. Let me back up and establish
`
`18 something, because we are talking about the archival
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`19 aspects. I want to talk about the archival aspects.
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`20 How does AGFA or how does your department
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`21 handle archiving of the materials and documents?
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`22 A Well, we have --
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`23 MR. KIKLIS: Objection to form.
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`24 BY MR. RAMAGE:
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`25 Q Does your department handle the archiving
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`16
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` 1 of documents and materials?
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` 2 A Yeah. Yes.
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` 3 Q How does it do that?
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` 4 A We keep copies of anything that we produce
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` 5 in an archival system.
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` 6 Q When you say "copies", are they physical
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` 7 copies?
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` 8 A Physical copies, yes.
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` 9 Q All right. Is your department responsible
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`10 for that archiving?
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`11 A Yes.
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`12 Q Do you have somebody in particular that is
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`13 an archivist?
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`14 A No.
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`15 Q Is that handled then individually within
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`16 the group by whatever individuals happens to be
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`17 responsible?
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`18 A Yes.
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`19 Q I'm sorry. Responsible for that particular
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`20 area?
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`21 A Could you re --
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`22 MR. KIKLIS: Objection to form.
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`23 A I don't understand the question.
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`24 BY MR. RAMAGE:
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`25 Q Do you have anybody in your group -- well,
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`17
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` 1 how do you handle responsibility for archived documents
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` 2 within your department?
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` 3 A Well, it's our manager that is responsible
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` 4 for the archiving.
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` 5 Q That would be Jan?
`
` 6 A Yeah.
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` 7 Q All right.
`
` 8 A Yeah.
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` 9 Q Have you held any other positions within
`
`10 the department?
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`11 A Yes and no. It's -- I have been handling
`
`12 the same -- I have been doing the same job for the
`
`13 whole time but for different product lines.
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`14 I was also responsible for advertising in
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`15 the beginning, which I am again now responsible for
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`16 again. So it's the same job but products -- I mean,
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`17 product responsibilities change.
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`18 Q By "product responsibility", you are
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`19 talking about the products in the different segments?
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`20 A Yeah.
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`21 Q What sort of segments or products were you
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`22 responsible for when you first started for AGFA?
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`23 A When I started for AGFA, I was responsible
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`24 for advertising only, but that meant worldwide
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`25 advertising for the whole range of products.
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`18
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` 1 Q What would be different about advertising
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` 2 or what do you mean by advertising?
`
` 3 A So the subsidiaries all over the world,
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` 4 they need ads to be put into magazines, and they order
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` 5 ads. So we produce the ads for our countries, for our
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` 6 subsidiaries, and whenever they wanted ads at that time
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` 7 we would send a set of films over. It's different now
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` 8 but...
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` 9 Q Those would be print ads then?
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`10 A Yeah.
`
`11 Q That wouldn't have been television
`
`12 advertising or --
`
`13 A No, no. No.
`
`14 Q Has AGFA ever done television advertising?
`
`15 A Not to my knowledge.
`
`16 Q After advertising, what segments did you
`
`17 then have responsibility for?
`
`18 A Well, after that, within the commercial
`
`19 printing department, I was responsible for the printing
`
`20 plates, which is rather huge. Yeah.
`
`21 Q What do you mean you were responsible for
`
`22 the printing plates?
`
`23 A Yeah, for the communication mix, for
`
`24 promoting printing plates, which is a part of the
`
`25 commercial printing.
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 19
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`19
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` 1 Q All right. You were not actually handling
`
` 2 printing plates physically, were you?
`
` 3 A No. No.
`
` 4 Q After the printing plates -- well, with
`
` 5 regard to commercial printing, when did you first
`
` 6 become responsible for commercial printing as a
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` 7 segment?
`
` 8 A To be honest, I don't -- I don't recall the
`
` 9 dates.
`
`10 Q But it would have been --
`
`11 A I wouldn't know -- it would have been the
`
`12 end of the eighties. I mean, the beginning of the
`
`13 nineties.
`
`14 Q All right. You were still responsible for
`
`15 commercial printing in 1998?
`
`16 A Yeah. Yes.
`
`17 Q Were you responsible for anything else in
`
`18 1998 as a segment?
`
`19 A No.
`
`20 Q When did you stop becoming responsible for
`
`21 commercial printing?
`
`22 A Stopped; I would be guessing, to be honest.
`
`23 I would be guessing but a couple of years later when we
`
`24 started off doing wide formats.
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`25 Q In the early 1990's?
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 20
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`20
`
` 1 A No. No. No.
`
` 2 Q Excuse me, the early 2000s?
`
` 3 A Yeah, yeah, exactly.
`
` 4 Q You have been doing wide format since then?
`
` 5 A Yes.
`
` 6 Q When did you start becoming responsible for
`
` 7 corporate identities or corporate ID?
`
` 8 A Two years ago.
`
` 9 Q Now, when you were talking about printing
`
`10 plates, you were talking about providing commercial
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`11 advertisements for a variety of subsidiaries. Is that
`
`12 correct?
`
`13 A Yes.
`
`14 Q Would those be advertisements requested by
`
`15 subsidiaries or people within AGFA?
`
`16 A Yes.
`
`17 Q Would you provide that material -- I think
`
`18 you mentioned films at the time?
`
`19 A Yes. I mean, not films like movies but
`
`20 films like -- at that time you had to -- well, it's a
`
`21 bit technical but you had four film separations for
`
`22 each color one, CMYK, so a set of films -- how do you
`
`23 say it in English? One set of films was one ad in full
`
`24 color or four colors, so when I provided -- each ad was
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`25 one set of films and I sent that over by post, by mail
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 21
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`21
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` 1 at that time to the subsidiaries.
`
` 2 Q Then the subsidiaries would place them with
`
` 3 whatever magazines they wanted?
`
` 4 A Yes. Yes. That was how it worked.
`
` 5 Q So, for commercial printing, was there any
`
` 6 commercial advertising involved with the commercial
`
` 7 printing segment?
`
` 8 A No, we only did product ads.
`
` 9 Q What do you mean by "product ad"?
`
`10 A I mean, no segment ads. So a segment would
`
`11 be commercial printing on newspapers. So, at that
`
`12 time, we only did product ads, so for a certain
`
`13 printing plate or a certain processor, which we had as
`
`14 well.
`
`15 Q So, in other words, there would be an ad
`
`16 for a product?
`
`17 A Yes.
`
`18 Q Would those be ads similar to the ones that
`
`19 you were doing when you were talking about advertising
`
`20 with the four color film? I mean, magazine ads or --
`
`21 A At that time?
`
`22 Q At the time.
`
`23 A Yes. Yes.
`
`24 Q All right. Would that still continue
`
`25 through 1998?
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 22
`
`
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
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`22
`
` 1 A I think in 1998 we started to work more
`
` 2 digital, so we sent -- at that time, we started because
`
` 3 that was the start of PDF. We started to send high res
`
` 4 PDF, so -- which made life easier for us.
`
` 5 Q When you say send them over, you mean to
`
` 6 the subsidiaries?
`
` 7 A Mail -- yeah. Yeah.
`
` 8 Q Just so I get a rough idea; when you talk
`
` 9 about subsidiaries, how was AGFA structured? I mean,
`
`10 you talked about your department within AGFA.
`
`11 A Yeah.
`
`12 Q Were there other departments within AGFA?
`
`13 A Yes, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. We have --
`
`14 besides the graphics department, we have a health care
`
`15 department and a materials department. So we are the
`
`16 headquarters.
`
`17 Q When you say "graphics department", you are
`
`18 talking about your communications department being
`
`19 within the graphics department?
`
`20 A Exactly.
`
`21 Q Generally speaking, what did the graphics
`
`22 department do or produce?
`
`23 A We produce products for the printing
`
`24 industry in its broadest sense.
`
`25 Q All right. You mentioned sending the high
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 23
`
`
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
`
`23
`
` 1 resolution PDFs to various subsidiaries. Can you give
`
` 2 me an idea of what sort of subsidiaries were in
`
` 3 existence in 1998 or what subsidiaries you are talking
`
` 4 about?
`
` 5 MR. KIKLIS: Objection; form.
`
` 6 A Do you want me to --
`
` 7 BY MR. RAMAGE:
`
` 8 Q Can you give me an idea of what
`
` 9 subsidiaries you are referring to?
`
`10 A Do you want me to give a list of them? I
`
`11 mean, we have -- in I believe about 30 countries all
`
`12 over the world, we have subsidiaries, so those are the
`
`13 subsidiaries. I mean, AGFA Sweden, AGFA Holland, AGFA
`
`14 Germany.
`
`15 Q So, generally, what you are talking about
`
`16 are AGFA subsidiaries --
`
`17 A Yes.
`
`18 Q -- within particular countries?
`
`19 A Yes.
`
`20 Q All right. Now, within your particular
`
`21 department -- you have talked about sending, you know,
`
`22 raw materials to subsidiaries.
`
`23 Were you ever involved in marketing or
`
`24 providing products directly to the public?
`
`25 A You mean -- the products that we produce
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 24
`
`
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
`
`24
`
` 1 or --
`
` 2 Q Any of your marketing materials.
`
` 3 A Okay.
`
` 4 Q That means what your department would
`
` 5 produce; did you ever provide those directly to
`
` 6 anybody --
`
` 7 A Yes.
`
` 8 Q -- in the public or were they always
`
` 9 provided through the subsidiaries?
`
`10 A Through the subsidiaries, yes.
`
`11 Q So you would never have been personally
`
`12 involved in any marketing activities directly
`
`13 face-to-face with the public?
`
`14 A Yes and no; because most of the time,
`
`15 products that we produce are being handed over by the
`
`16 sales to our customers but a lot of the events that we
`
`17 use that collateral or whatever for are at trade shows.
`
`18 Sometimes I am at trade shows where I see
`
`19 sales reps working with our customers, having
`
`20 discussions with our customers in the meeting rooms
`
`21 that we have there and using those materials.
`
`22 Q All right. Just to clarify, you have been
`
`23 to a variety of those events?
`
`24 A Yes.
`
`25 Q At those events, you have seen your
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 25
`
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
`
`25
`
` 1 salespeople interact with customers or potential
`
` 2 customers and provide them materials. Is that correct?
`
` 3 A Yes.
`
` 4 Q And those materials would include materials
`
` 5 that your department has produced?
`
` 6 A Yes, by all means.
`
` 7 Q But you, personally, weren't ever involved
`
` 8 in any of those face-to-face meetings with those
`
` 9 customers or potential customers?
`
`10 A No.
`
`11 Q Have you held any positions outside of the
`
`12 marketing communications department?
`
`13 A No.
`
`14 Q In Paragraph 6, you refer to Exhibit A,
`
`15 which is the Apogee document.
`
`16 A Yes.
`
`17 Q Did you write the Apogee document?
`
`18 A You mean this brochure?
`
`19 Q That brochure.
`
`20 A No.
`
`21 Q Do you know who wrote it? And, to be sure,
`
`22 I don't want you to speculate.
`
`23 A I would be guessing. I would be guessing.
`
`24 Q I don't want you to speculate.
`
`25 Do you have personal knowledge of who wrote
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 26
`
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
`
`26
`
` 1 that document?
`
` 2
`
` A No. I can't tell.
`
` 3 Q All right.
`
` 4 A For 100 percent, no.
`
` 5 Q All right. When was the first time you saw
`
` 6 that document?
`
` 7 A Wow. When it was produced. I mean, the
`
` 8 layouts was done in Belgium. I believe the writing was
`
` 9 done in the U.S., but I can't recall who did it. So,
`
`10 when we produce the brochure -- so we, in Mortsel,
`
`11 produce all brochures, all collateral for the whole --
`
`12 well, for the whole world -- say, for our subsidiaries
`
`13 because we are the headquarters. That's why. So that
`
`14 was when I saw it, when it was produced.
`
`15 Q So you actually saw it --
`
`16 A In layout.
`
`17 Q I'm sorry. What was that?
`
`18 A When I saw the layout being produced, yeah.
`
`19 Q When you say you saw the layout being
`
`20 produced, you mean back around 1998 or whatever?
`
`21 A Yeah. It must have been that time. Yeah.
`
`22 Yeah.
`
`23 Q Were you involved in the production of the
`
`24 document?
`
`25 A No, a colleague of mine was.
`
`Alpha Reporting Corporation
`
`CTP Exhibit 2016
`
`Eastman Kodak v. CTP Innovations
`IPR 2014-00789
`Page 27
`
`
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`JOHAN SUETENS - March 26, 2015
`
`27
`
` 1 Q What colleague was that?
`
` 2 A Shall I --
`
` 3 Q The name.
`
` 4 A The name, yeah. It's a difficult spelling.
`
` 5 Her family name is V-A-N, space, D-E-N, space,
`
` 6 E-Y-N-D-E; and first name is Crystal.
`
` 7 Q E-Y-N-D-E?
`
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