Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
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`Paper No. 30
`Entered: July 29, 2015
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`- - - - - -
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - -
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`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS, INC.,
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`Petitioner
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`vs.
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`UUSI, LLC.,
`
`Patent Owner
`
`- - - - - -
`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`- - - - - -
`
`Oral Hearing Held: June 29, 2015
`
`
`
`Before: GLENN J. PERRY, HYUN J. JUNG, and JASON J.
`CHUNG, Administrative Patent Judges
`
`
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`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Monday, June 29,
`2015 at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street,
`Alexandria, Virginia in Courtroom B at 9:10 a.m.
`
`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
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`CHARLES H. SANDERS, ESQ.
`Goodwin Procter LLP
`Exchange Place
`Boston, MA 02109
`617-570-1000
`csanders@goodwinprocter.com
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`TIMOTHY J. ROUSSEAU, ESQ.
`Goodwin Procter LLP
`The New York Times Building
`620 Eighth Avenue
`New York, New York 10018-1405
`trousseau@goodwinprocter.com
`
`PHONG DINH, ESQ.
`Goodwin Procter LLP
`901 New York Avenue, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20001
`202-346-4000
`pdinh@goodwinprocter.com
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`MONTE L. FALCOFF, ESQ.
`Harness, Dickey & Pierce, P.L.C.
`5445 Corporate Drive, Suite 200
`Troy, MI 48098
`248-641-1600
`mlfalcoff@hdp.com
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`( 9:10 a . m. )
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`J UDGE P ER R Y: Goo d mo rn ing . We a r e
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`c onv en ed on I PR c as es 2014 -648 , 649 , and 650; Pe titio ne r ,
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`We b a sto Roo f S yst e ms v er sus Pa tent Ow ne r UUS I . F i rst , my
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`a polo gi es f or the t e chni ca l d ela y.
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`We a r e he a ring thr e e cas es tog eth er pe r t he
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`s ch edul ing o rd er . Ea c h sid e h as 120 mi n ute s to ar gu e . Don 't
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`f e el co mp e ll ed to us e all 1 20 , but if yo u d o , we ' re goi ng to
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`t ak e a ten - mi nu te b re a k b et we en Pe tit ion er 's and P at ent
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`Own e r' s a rgu me n ts , sin ce it is a l ong e r th an usu al sc he dul e ,
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`wh en yo u ge t up to s pe ak , pl e as e ide nti f y yo u r se lf cle a rl y f o r
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`th e b en ef it o f th e c ou rt rep or te r . I a ssu me yo u h av e a l re ad y
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`gi ven th e cou rt r epo r t e r you r c a rds , so the sp ellin g of yo u r
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`n a me s will b e corr e ct .
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`P e titi one r , yo u ma y b e gin wh en r ea d y. P l eas e l et
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`us kno w i f you c ar e to r es e rve ti me f o r r ebut ta l .
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`M R . S ANDER S: C ha rl es S and er s o f Good win
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`P r oct e r on b eh al f o f Pet itio ne r , We ba sto Roo f S y ste ms . I
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`wou ld li ke t o r ese rv e 20 mi n ut es fo r reb utt al . I woul d lik e to
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`in tr odu ce wh o we h av e with us h ere tod a y, Ti m R o uss e au and
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`P hong Dinh , also o f Good win Pr octe r , coun se l of r eco rd in
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`th is p ro ce edin g . S a r a S mi t h , who is a l a w st uden t wi th us at
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`Goo d win P roc te r a nd Silv es te r Kuha r , who is h e ad of th e I P
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`d ep ar t me nt at We b asto .
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`J UDGE P ER R Y: We l c o me , e ve r yon e .
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`M R . S ANDER S: You r Ho nor s , of c ou rs e ha ve
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`h ea rd a rgu me n t re ga rd ing th e '612 a nd '802 pat en ts , so my
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`in te ntion tod a y is to st ar t with the ' 03 7 pat en t .
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`Th e re a re t hr e e c la i ms a t iss ue . The y a r e a ll
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`in dep end ent cl aims . An d in thi s p re se nta tion yo u wi ll s ee the
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`in dep end ent cl aims u nd e rli n ed i n th e su mma r y s l ide .
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`At this p oint the di sput es ar e re al ly a b ou t B e rna rd .
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`C hik a ra ishi , was in cl ude d fo r ob viou sne ss a s to i nde pe nde nt
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`c l ai m 1 , be c aus e in dep end ent cl aim 1 r equ ir es a regu la tor .
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`Th e re is no d isput e th at Chi ka ra ishi d is clos es a r egul ato r .
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`Th e re is no d isput e , g enui ne d ispute , a t le as t , th at it wou ld
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`h av e be en o bvious t o co mb i ne B ern ar d an d Ch ik ar aish i , so at
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`th is po int wh at we ' r e r e all y f o cus ed o n is Be rn ar d .
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`Th e re a re fou r cla i m t e r ms th at a re in d isput e at
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`th is po int . And I wi ll b e a ddr ess ing t hos e c lai m t e r ms a s th e y
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`a pp ea r in the cl aims . I wi ll st art wi th c la i ms 1 an d 7 t ak en
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`to ge t he r , b ec aus e th e y r e ci te the same c l a i m t e r m, p o we r
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`s ys t e m, t hat is in di sput e .
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`And th e s yst e m e qu at ion li mi t at ion t ha t is also
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`hi ghlig ht ed th at is i n dis put e , it wa s a rg ued in th e br i ef ing as
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`to cl ai ms 1 and cla i m 7 with r esp ect to th e di f fe r ent p ar a me t e r
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`v alu es cl ai m t e r m. I t also app e ars in cl ai m 1 3 , I s ee f r o m
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`P a ten t Own er 's pre se nt ation th at is no w be ing a rg ued wi th
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`r e spe ct to c la i m 13 , b ut I will be d is cuss ing i t jus t wi th
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`r e spe ct to c la i ms 1 and 7 he re be c aus e th at 's th e wa y i t was
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`do ne i n th e b ri e fing .
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`F i rst , t he te r m " po we r s yst e m. " I a m n o w on s lid e
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`6 . Wh at P ate nt Own e r pr opos es i s to r ea d in t wo thing s , th e
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`mo d ul a ri zed or p re as se mb l ed p o wer uni t , whi ch do not app e ar
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`a n ywh e re i n thi s sp e ci fi cat ion , and a f r a me , a cl osu re , an d a
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`d riv e mo to r , whi ch app ea r els e wh er e in c la i ms 1 and 7 and ,
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`th e re fo r e , it i s unn ec es sa r y to r ea d th e m i nt o th e powe r
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`s ys t e m l i mi ta tion.
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`P e titi one r p ropo se s to con str ue the po we r s ys te m
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`si mp l y a s a mo to r d riv en s ys t e m.
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`I a m n o w on sli de 7 , wh ic h sho ws sup por t f or
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`c on st ru ing th e cla i m t e r m " p o we r s ys t e m" as a mo to r d riv en
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`s ys t e m. Th e fi rst qu ota tion o n thi s sl id e , th e on e a t th e t op ,
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`a pp ea rs i n th e f ield of the inv enti on i n th e p ate nt dis clo sur e .
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`And it st at es t ha t th e p r ese nt inv ent ion con ce rns mo to r -dr ive n
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`a c tua tor con tr ol sys t e ms a nd me t hods , whi ch supp or ts
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`c onst ru ing po we r s ys t e m a s a mo tor d riv en s ys te m.
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`La t er on in t he s pe c ifi c atio n , thi s is i n th e
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`b ac kgr ound , d iscus ses Nat ion al High light Tr a ff ic Sa f et y
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`Ad mi n ist ra tion s ta nd ard th at rel at es t o po wer -op e ra te d
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`wi ndo ws and roo f p at ents . Po we r -op e ra ted windo ws and roo f
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`p an els ar e ex a mpl es o f mo to r d rive n s ys te ms .
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`No w, n o wh er e do th e cl ai ms o r inde ed th e en ti re
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`p at ent me n tion a mo d ul a ri zed or p re as se mb l ed u nit . And as I
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`me n t ion ed , t he t er ms f r a me , c l osu re , an d dr iv e mo tor ap pe a r
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`s ep ar at el y i n th e c l ai ms . And t he re is no r ea son to r e ad t hos e
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`in to "p o we r s ys t em. "
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`I a m n o w on sli de 9 . An d no w I am t u rnin g f ro m
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`c l ai m c on st ruc tion t o th e a nti cip ation of t he inv alid it y
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`a rg u me nt s , an ti cip ati on a nd obvi ous nes s a s to c la im 1 o f thi s
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`l i mi ta tion "po wer s ys t e m. "
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`B e rn ar d dis clo ses a po wer s yst e m un de r
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`P e titi one r 's cons tr uc tion . Ele ct ri c wi ndo w win de rs a r e
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`mo t o r -dr iv en s ys te ms a nd th at 's di sc los ed i n th e top qu ota tion
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`on slid e 9 .
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`P a ten t Own er also ac kno wl edg es th at Be rn a rd
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`di sc los es th at t he in ven tion is a ppli c abl e to mo to ri ze d
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`su nro of s of mo t or c a rs , wh ic h is also a mo to r -dr iv en s ys t e m.
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`P a ten t Own er r efe r s to th is as a fle e ting me n tion , but of
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`c ou rs e ei th er fo r ob vious nes s or for an ti cip atio n , it do es n ot
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`ma t t e r wh eth e r the me n t ion is e mp h asi z ed o r not .
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`Wi t h r esp e ct to th e t er m " f r a me , " B e rn ar d
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`di sc los es a tr app ed fing e r . And ther e n e eds t o be a fr a me
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`a ga inst whi ch a fing e r c an b e t r appe d . Th er e i s no me n t ion o f
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
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`f r a me l es s window. Th is is a rgu me nt Pa te nt Own er ma d e in
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`th e b ri e f . Bu t on c ro ss -ex a mi n ation at Pa te nt Own er' s exp er t' s
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`d epos itio n , Dr . Ehs ani ' s de posit ion, h e a ckn o wl edg ed t ha t
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`e ve r y r e f e ren c e th at was id en tif ied as su ppos edl y s ho wing a
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`f r a me l es s window, i n f ac t , sho wed a fr a me .
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`And wha t th e issu e was is th a t wha t was re fe r r ed
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`to as f ra me l e ss in th es e re f er en ce s wa s h avin g an inte r ior
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`f r a me , mu c h li ke yo u c an i ma g in e a wind o w ha s an e xt er io r
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`f r a me . An d so me wi ndo ws yo u will s e e c ros s - hat ch ing in th e
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`in te rio r . Yo u coul d de sc rib e i t as f r a me l es s i f you di dn ' t h av e
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`th e cr oss -h atc hing i n th e int e rio r , bu t th er e i s sti ll an ext e rio r
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`f r a me . An d th at 's t he f ra me t h at is , o f cou rs e , of int e res t
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`h er e . Th at 's the fr a me a g ain st whic h a fi nge r wo uld b e
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`t r app ed .
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`And Ch ika r aish i a lso d is clos ed a fr a me . I t
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`di sc los ed - - t his is o n sli de 11 - - a wi ndo w p an e 14 is
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`di sc los ed wit hin th e v ehi cl e doo r bod y 1 0 . Of co ur se , th e
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`wi ndo w is sho wn f lo atin g in sp a ce in th e fi gu re , b ut i t is well
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`un de rst ood th at th e v ehi cl e bod y 10 wo uld e mb r ac e th e
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`wi ndo w fr a me s , wi ndo w fr a me s don ' t le vit at e .
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`And th er e is n o dis put e , a s I me n tion ed , t ha t it
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`wou ld b e obvi ous to co mb in e t he re f e ren c es . And , a ga in ,
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`C hik a ra ishi was re a ll y ju st in clu ded fo r th e pu rpos es o f t he
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`r eg ul ato r , whi ch isn 't disp ute d an y mo r e .
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`

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`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
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`No w, Dr . Eh san i c on ced ed tha t d isc losu r e o f a
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`su nro of would cons titu te inh er ent di sc losu re of all th e
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`r eq ui re me n ts t ha t Dr . Ehs ani pro pos ed to r ea d into th e t er m
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`" po we r s ys t e m, " th e mo dul a riz ed or p re ass e mb l ed po we r unit
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`h avin g a f ra me , a c losu r e , a nd a driv e mo to r . Of c ou rs e ,
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`B e rn ar d dis clo ses a sun roo f , as Pate nt Own e r a ckn owl edg ed
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`a nd was sho wn in th e p rio r s lid e .
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`S o I no w tu rn to th e c la i m t e r m, t he c lai m
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`l i mi ta tion i nvolv ing s yst e m e qu at ion . Wh at is re ally i n
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`di sput e at th is time a r e t he word s " di ff e ren t pa r a me t e r
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`v alu es . " So I wi ll fo cus o n th at n ext .
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`S o on s lid e 13 , he r e you se e Pe tition e r 's
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`c onst ru ct ion a dopt ed b y t h e Bo a rd a t Inst itut ion , th e e nti r e
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`c l ai m p hr as e . Tha t is not in dispu te .
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`Tu rni ng no w t o slid e 14 , th e di ff e re nt p a ra me t e r
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`v alu es cl ai m t e r m. Th e is sue is wh e th er this cl ai m t e r m
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`e nc o mp ass es val ue s o f on e o r mo r e p ar a me t e rs , s o it c ould
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`e mb r a c e a sing le p ar a me t e r t ak en at d if f er ent ti me s o r wh eth e r
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`i t r equi r es di f fe r ent kinds of p a ra me t ers , fo r exa mp l e , cu r re nt
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`a nd pu lse pe rio d .
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`P a ten t Own er a ckno wled ge s th a t the c lai m t e r m,
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`si mp l y l oo king at th e p lai n l angu ag e o f th e c la i m t er m, i t
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`c ould be r ead to e mb r a c e v alu es of a singl e p a ra me t e r a t
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`di f fe r ent t i me s o r v alu es o f di f fe r ent kinds of p a ra me t ers .
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`

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`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
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`And P at ent Own er th en re lie s on the pr os ecu tion
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`hi sto r y to e x clude th e f ir st in te rp re t ation , va lue s of th e s a me
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`p ar a me t e r at di f fe r ent ti me s . Tha t' s in co r re ct . An d I no w
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`d e mo nst r ate , going t hro ugh th e p ros ec utio n hist or y, wh e re t he
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`P a ten t Own er r efe r r ed to v al ues of a sing le pa r a me te r at
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`di f fe r ent t i me s as di f fe r ent p a ra me t e r va lue s .
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`S o b ef or e I ge t to th e p ros e cutio n hi sto r y, l et 's just
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`b ri ef l y o ri ent ou rs elv es t o th e co nte xt o f th e cl ai m l a ngu ag e .
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`Th at 's o n sli de 1 6 h er e . It i s ap pa re nt fr o m t he cl aim
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`l angu ag e th at t he f oc us o f thi s c la im i s d if f er ent ti me s . It is
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`t alk ing about me a su ri ng ov er a p e riod of t i me a nd look ing at a
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`pl ur ali t y o f me a su re me n t p a ra me t er va lu es me a su red o ve r a
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`p er iod o f t i me .
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`Th e re is no su ggest ion i n th e c lai m l angu ag e it se lf
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`th at the r e a r e di f fe r ent kinds of p a ra me t e r s . Th e c lai m
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`l angu ag e it se lf i s f oc us ed on h aving mu lt ipl e ti me s .
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`No w, tur ning to th e p ros ec ution hist or y. Th is is
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`sl id e 17 . For cont ext he re , th e te rm " di f fe r ent p a rame t e r
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`v alu es " was cop ied f ro m a no the r p at ent , the Tyc k o wski pa ten t .
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`And th e Tyc ko wski pa ten t an d th e p at ent appl ic ati on fo r th e
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`' 037 pat en t we r e inv olv ed in an in te r f er en ce . And th at was
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`wh y i t was copi ed fo r pu rpos es o f p rovo king t he inte r f er en ce .
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`S o th at expl ai ns th e r e fe r en ce to Tyc k o ws ki .
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`App li can t is expla ini ng ho w i ts appl ic at ion for the
`
`' 037 pat en t pr ovid es su ppo rt for cop yi ng t he d if f ere nt
`
`p ar a me t e r v alu es f r o m Tyc k o wski . And wha t Appl ica nt
`
`e xpl ain s is th at th e di f fe r ent p a rame t e r - - t he p a rame t e r s , IR a ,
`
`I R b , an d th at 's " I" cu r ren t t ake n in t i me r ang e "a " and cu r ren t
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`t ak en in ti me r a ng e "b , " th at t hos e p ar a me t e rs a re th e di f fe r ent
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`p ar a me t e r v alu es th at a re at i ssu e he r e .
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`And it re f er s at th e bot to m t o th e r an ge s A th rough
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`F . S o th at wou ld b e c ur r ent fr o m di f fe r ent t i me r a ng es A
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`th rou gh F .
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`And tu rning no w to slid e 18 , the Pa t ent Own e r s a id
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`th is aga in wh en re f e rr ing to di ff e re nt p a ra me t e r v alu es ,
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`po int ed to the mo to r cu rr ent val ue s on - - in t he d if f er en t
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`r an ge s; n a me l y, r a ng es A, ran ges B , an d e t c et er a .
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`No w, what th e P at ent Owne r also sa id du ri ng
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`p ros e cutio n is t hat the r e is n o r equir e me n t th at the pa r a me t e rs
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`b e a ll o f th e s a me ki nd . Th at 's i n -- on s lid e 19 h er e, th e l ast
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`s ent en ce tha t is hig hligh te d .
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`And th en ag ai n said it in th e bott om q uot at ion ,
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`t ak en fro m l a t e r in t he p ro se cuti on hi sto r y, th e re is no
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`ho mo g en y r e qui re me n t . The r e is no r equi r e me nt tha t th e
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`p ar a me t e rs b e all o f th e s a me ki nd . Th e y c oul d be al l of the
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`s a me k ind o r th e y c ould not b e a ll o f th e s a me ki nd . Ei the r
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`f a lls wi thin the cla i m l a ngu age , "dif f e re nt p ar a me t e r v alu es . "
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`S o it is also u se ful to lo ok a t Tyc ko wsk i , s inc e
`
`th is is whe r e di ffe r ent pa r a me t er va lu es o rig ina ted . I t was
`
`c opi ed fr o m T yc ko ws ki . And looking at the dis closur e in
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`Tyc k o wski , wh at we s ee t he r e is Tyc k o ws ki on l y dis clo sed
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`v alu es o f on e ki nd o f p a ra me t e r , eith e r sp ee d or mo t o r c ur r ent
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`t ak en at di f fe r ent t i me s .
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`Th at was t he d if fe r ent pa r a me t er va lu es in
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`Tyc k o wski . And we sub mi t it would be i mp rop e r to e xc lud e
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`th e d isc losu r e of Tyc k o wski wh en th at 's whe r e th e cl ai m
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`l angu ag e was c opi ed fr o m t o ha ve su ppo rt in b oth app li cat ions
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`f o r pu rpos es o f th e int e rf e ren c e .
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`J UDGE P ER R Y: C ouns el , let me i nt e rr upt wi th a
`
`qu est ion . Isn 't it t ru e in an in te r fe re nc e , wh en on e cop ies
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`c l ai ms , th er e mu st s til l be suppo rt a nd expl an atio n in t he
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`sp e ci fi cat ion o f th e p at ent copi ed to , r ath er tha n looki ng to
`
`wh e re i t w a s co pie d f ro m?
`
`M R . S ANDER S: Th e re abso lut el y mu s t b e
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`di sc losu re in th e p at ent i n whi ch th e c la i m l ang uage is copi ed
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`to .
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`J UDGE P ER R Y: S houl dn 't we look t o th at
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`di sc losu re fo r und er st andin g th e cl ai m t e r m?
`
`M R . S ANDER S: Abs olut el y, Yo u r Hon or . And
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`th at is wh y we sta r ted fi rs t with the pr os ecu tion h isto r y o f th e
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`11
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`' 037 pat en t its el f , sh o wing h o w th e P a ten t Own er des c rib ed
`
`du rin g p ros ecu tion wh at the di ff e rent pa r a me t er val ue s a r e .
`
`We s i mp l y a ls o not e on th e dis closu re in
`
`Tyc k o wski , b ec aus e we thou ght th at would also be
`
`in fo r ma t iv e , though we wou ld submi t t hat th e pr osec uti on
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`hi sto r y on the pr io r sl ide s is , i n f ac t , mo r e i mp o rt ant to th e
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`un de rst and ing o f th is t e r m.
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`S o Pat en t Own er a lso ide nti fi es st at e me n ts in the
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`p ros e cutio n his tor y. Ag a in , P ate nt Own e r is re l yin g on
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`st at e me n ts in the p ros e cutio n to t r y to r ea d out wh at i t ad mi t s
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`is one poss ibl e int e rpr et at ion o f the c lai m p h r as e , whi ch is
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`v alu es o f a sing le p ar a me t e r t ak en a t di f fe r ent t i me s.
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`B ut fo cusin g on tho se q uot atio ns , wh at t he y
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`di sc los e is t hat the f a ct th at t he '037 p at ent dis clos es us e o f
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`t wo pa r a me t er - - t wo kind s of pa r ame t e r s , cu rr ent and puls e
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`p er iod , i t p rovid es ev en mo r e evide nc e o f su ppo rt . I t is not
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`s a yin g th at th is is r eq ui red fo r su ppo rt . It p rov id es e ve n mo r e
`
`e vid en ce .
`
`And th er e is n o sta t e me nt in th e p ros e cuti on th at
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`e xc lud es us ing dif f e re nt p ar a me t e r - - ex cus e me , v alu es o f a
`
`si ngl e p ar a me t e r t ak en at di f fe r ent t i me s fr o m s at isfyi n g th is
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`c l ai m t e r m. An d , in de ed , we h ave lo oke d a t th e st ate me n t s
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`th at sho w th at that 's p r ec is e l y wh at is e mb r a c ed b y thi s c lai m
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`t e r m.
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`24
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`Tu rni ng no w t o th e inv al idit y a r gume n t s , th e re is
`
`no dispu te tha t und e r P et ition e r 's c onst ru ct ion , v alu es o f at
`
`l e ast on e p a ra me t e r , so you coul d h av e t wo , bu t you on l y n eed
`
`on e , t ak en at di f fe r ent ti me s is di sc los ed i n B e rna rd.
`
`He r e i s th e dis closu r e in Be rn a rd . And this is a n
`
`i te ra tiv e p ro ces s , wh e re yo u a r e plug ging i n a n e w cu r ren t
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`v alu e " I" and th en yo u a r e t aking th e - - yo u a r e ge ttin g a
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`v alu e " I m" t hat th en b ec o me s "I m p ri me . " S o thi s it e rat es as
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`yo u ge t ne w va lue s o f " I ."
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`And so ou r e xpe rt s et fo rth ho w this wo uld l ook ,
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`ju st exp andin g it ou t fo r t wo p rio r t i me s . And yo u , a s You r
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`Hon ors c an s ee , you hav e v alu es o f a sing le pa r a me te r at
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`di f fe r ent t i me s t ha t ar e enco mp a sse d b y t he d is closu re in
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`B e rn ar d . This wri ting o ut o f th e equ at ion b y o ur exp er t is n ot
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`di sput ed .
`
`I a m g o ing to turn n o w to cl ai m 1 3 o f th e '037
`
`p at ent . As I me n t ion ed e a rli e r , cl ai m 1 3 i nc lud es this
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`" di ff e ren t pa r a me t e r va lue s" ph r ase , but I h av e al r ea d y
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`a dd re sse d it i n the co nt ext o f c la im 1 a nd c la i m 7 , so I a m n ot
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`go ing to add r ess it ag ain h e re in 13, th ough I und e rsta nd
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`P a ten t Own er is no w r aisi ng it i n th e c ont ext o f 13 . I a m
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`go ing to add r ess two o th er cl ai m t e r ms , t h e "d ea ct iva tin g"
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`c l ai m t e r m a n d the "s ens ing" cl ai m l i mi ta tion .
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`13
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`De a ct iva ting , P eti tion er pr opos ed a co nst ru ction of
`
`" tu rning of f ." Tha t was a dopt ed i n p ar t b y t he Bo ard . Th e re
`
`wa s fur th er expl an ati on th at was pr ovid ed b y t h e Bo ar d in i ts
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`c onst ru ct ion a t the ti me o f insti tution .
`
`P a ten t Own er cont inu es to a rgue it sh ould n ot b e
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`c onst ru ed o r sh ould be cons tr ued ess en tia ll y a s in a ct ive as
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`op pos ed to d e ac tiv at e . Thi s is , th e p ro ce ss o f de a ctiv ati ng .
`
`B ut Pa te nt Own er h asn 't ide nti fi ed a n y di stin ct ion
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`f r o m t he p ri or a rt b as ed on i ts const ru ctio n . S o I a m no t
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`go ing to spe nd a ny f u r th er ti me o n th is cla i m t e r m b e c aus e at
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`th is po int i t do esn 't a ff e ct th e ou tco me o f the pro c eedi ng .
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`I wil l ins te ad focus on th e "s en sing " c lai m t e r m,
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`wh ich is sho wn he r e on slid e 26 , in co mp e ting const ru ctio ns .
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`And th e issu e i s th at Pa te nt Own er is se eki ng to r ead
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`" sen sing " a s r equi rin g av e ra ging of pa st me a su r e me nt s . And
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`th at 's inc or r ec t . Th at 's n ot th e o rdin a r y und e rst and ing of
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`" sen sing . " And i t is not t he u nde rst and ing th at i s r ev ea le d b y
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`th e i ntr insi c evide nc e .
`
`No w, P at ent Owne r co n c ede s - - th is i s on s lid e
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`27 - - th at i t would b e count e rint uitiv e t o int e rpr et "se nsin g" i n
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`th e ma n ne r th at it p ropo ses . P at ent Own e r co nc ed es th at
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`th at 's not th e conv ent ion al me a ning o f " se nsing . "
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`Tu rni ng no w t o slid e 28 , wel l , th en wh at i s th e
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`hu rdl e fo r th e P ate nt Own e r? Ac cor ding to th e l a w, P a ten t
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`Own e r ha s got to a pp rov e th at th e re is a c le a r a tte mpt b y th e
`
`a ppl ic ants to d evia t e f ro m t h e pl ain a nd o rdin a r y me a ning .
`
`And I no te tha t Pa t ent Own e r is g ivi ng "s ens ing "
`
`in cl ai m 1 3 a di f fe r ent int er pr et ation tha n in cl ai m 1 and cl ai m
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`7 , wh e re a vi rt ua ll y i d enti c al c la i m ph r as e ap pe ar s . At le ast
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`a s b est we can te ll , the y a r e givi ng i t a d if f er ent inte rp r et atio n
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`b ec aus e t he y h ave n 't sou ght t o co nst ru e s ens ing with re sp ect
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`to 1 an d 7 . S o we t ake tha t a s an a d mi ssi on th at i n th ose
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`c l ai ms , a t le as t , it h as a pl ain and o rdin a r y me a nin g.
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`And we kn o w f rom P h ilip s th at th at is g ene r all y
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`di sf avo r ed .
`
`No w, tur ning to sl ide 29 , wh at do es t he
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`sp e ci fi cat ion s a y a bout "s ensi ng"? We l l , t he s pe ci fic a tion
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`s a ys a lo t ab out "s ens ing ." It is use d in a v er y b r oad wa y
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`th rou ghout th e spe c ifi c atio n . And we h ave not att emp t e d to
`
`p rovi de all of the in st anc es o n a s lid e b e cau se i t woul d be - - it
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`is doz en s and doze ns o f in sta nc es .
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`S o ju st e ven ta king the abs tr a ct as a sing le
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`e xa mp l e , t he r e sens ing is dis clos ed a s s ensi ng bot h h ar d an d
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`so ft obst ru ctio ns , a s well as s ensi ng fo r obs ta cl e o r e l ect ron ic
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`s ens ing in the mo to r cu rr ent . In the se con d pa ss age h er e , yo u
`
`s ee th e f irs t pos itio n se nsing , so it c an be u sed to d es c rib e
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`s ens ing obs tr uct ion s or just sen sing a p ar tic ul ar p a ra me t e r
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`v alu e .
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`No w, P at ent Owne r h as r eli ed on th e p ros ec ution
`
`hi sto r y f o r its coun te rin tuit ive const ru ct ion . And the
`
`p ros e cutio n his tor y a c t ual l y sup por ts P etit ion er 's cons tr uct ion ,
`
`th e p lai n l angu age c o nst ru ction .
`
`S o foc using on slid e 30 , th e top quot at ion , th e p a rt
`
`th at is e mp h as iz ed t he r e an d as to s ens ing , s ee gen er a ll y p ag e
`
`2 , l in es 25 t o 29 , th at pa rt i s o mi tte d wh en Pat en t Own e r
`
`qu ote s thi s quot atio n in i ts b ri ef for supp or t of its
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`c ount e rint uit i ve con st ruc tion .
`
`B ut i f we loo k to wh at t he appl ic ants at the ti me o f
`
`th e p ros e cutio n we r e di r ec ting u s to fo r s ensin g , we lo ok to
`
`th at pas sag e , i t dis clo ses posit ion and spe ed s ens ing .
`
`I t di sc los es us e of s ensin g in th e or din a r y me a n ing
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`o f th e wo rd . Th er e is not hing about av e rag ing .
`
`I nd eed , P at ent Own e r' s co unt er intui tiv e
`
`c onst ru ct ion th at is be ing p ropo sed no w con fl ic ts with wha t
`
`th e Pa te nt Own er p ropo sed at the time o f i ts p re li mi n ar y
`
`r e spons e . At the t i me o f th e p rel imi n a r y r e spo nse , P a ten t
`
`Own e r wa s t r ying to an ted at e ce rt ain pr ior a rt th at wa s
`
`in cl ude d in th e pe tit ion .
`
`And so Pat en t Own e r wa s r e fe r ring t o supp ort in
`
`th e o rig ina l a pplic a tion fo r p art ic ul a r c lai m t e r ms t o su ppo rt
`
`i ts a rgu me n t t hat i t co uld ant eda te th e p rio r ar t .
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`

`
`Case IPR2014-00648 (Patent 8,217,612 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00649 (Patent 7,548,037 B2)
`Case IPR2014-00650 (Patent 7,579,802 B2)1
`
`
`S uppo rt tha t th e P a ten t Own er ident if ied fo r th e
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`s ens ing li mi t at ion i nvolv es s i mp l y po siti on s ensin g , sp e ed
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`s ens ing , cur r ent se nsin g . Th er e is no thing in th e re abo ut
`
`a ve r agin g pa st me as ur e me n ts .
`
`And Dr . Eh sa ni , P a ten t Own er 's exp e rt , con ced ed
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`a t hi s de posit ion th a t the pas sag e I ju st sh o wed yo u wou ld b e
`
`e xc lud ed i f Pat ent Owne r 's const ruc tio n no w req ui ring
`
`a ve r agin g pa st me as ur e me n ts wer e a dopt ed .
`
`Tu rni ng no w t o slid e 33 and tu rning t o th e
`
`in va lidi t y pos ition , ant ici pa tion b as ed on B er na rd , th er e i s no
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`di sput e th at B erna rd dis clos es the s ens ing li mi t at ion u nde r
`
`P e titi one r 's cons tr uc tion . It dis clos es s ens ing cur r ent va lue s ,
`
`ju st as dis cl ose d in th e ' 037 p at ent. And th at is s hown in th e
`
`e xc e rpts he r e on sl id e 33 .
`
`J UDGE J UNG: I a m s o r r y t o int e rrup t . C an yo u
`
`go ba ck on e sl id e?
`
`M R . S ANDER S: C e rt ain l y.
`
`J UDGE J UNG: I b eli ev e th e re i s an ar gu me n t b y
`
`th e Pa te nt Own er th at the sen sing wa s d ef in ed b y a p ar ti cul ar
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`c ur r ent , cu rr en t R, su b Ro , whi ch is t he c alc ul ate d run ning
`
`so ft wa re fi lt er ed v alu e . Can yo u add r ess t hat? Wh y c an it no t
`
`b e th at p a rti cul a r c ur r ent v al ue?
`
`M R . S ANDER S: C e rt ain l y. S o I wi ll go b a ck a
`
`f e w slid es , ac tu all y, t o ad