December 16, 2014
`1 -4
`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES
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`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`GOODWIN PROCTER LLP
`
`BY:
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`CHARLES H. SANDERS, ESQ.
`
`TIMOTHY J. ROUSSEAU, ESQ.
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`Exchange Place
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`Boston, Massachusetts 02109
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`Telephone:
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`617.570.1000
`
`Fax:
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`617.523.1231
`
`E -mail:
`
`csanders@goodwinprocter.com
`
`trousseau@goodwinprocter.com
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER (Telephonically):
`
`HARNESS DICKEY & PIERCE, P.L.C.
`
`BY:
`
`MONTE L. FALCOFF, ESQ.
`
`HEMANT M. KESKAR, ESQ.
`
`5445 Corporate Drive
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`Suite 200
`
`Troy, Michigan 48098
`
`Telephone:
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`248.641.1600
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`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`US PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS, INC.,
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`)
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`Page 1
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`vs.
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`UUSI, LLC.,
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`Petitioner,
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`Patent Owner.
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`)
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`)
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`)
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`)
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`Case No.:
`IPR 2014 -00649
`Patent 7,548,037
`
`DEPOSITION OF FRANCESCO BORRELLI
`Volume 1
`San Francisco, California
`Tuesday, December 16th, 2014
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`2
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`Fax:
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`248.641.0270
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`E -mail:
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`mlfalcoff@hdp.com
`
`hkeskar@hdp.com
`
`INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
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`EXAMINATION BY MR. FALCOFF
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`EXAMINATION BY MR. SANDERS
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`EXAMINATION BY MR. FALCOFF
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`Page 4
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`REPORTED BY:
`MONICA LEPE -GEORG
`CSR No. 11976
`Job No. 249155
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`PAGES 1 - 121
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`Page 2
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`DEPOSITION OF FRANCESCO BORRELLI, VOLUME
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`NO. 1, taken on behalf of Patent Owner, at Three
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`Embarcadero, 24th Floor, San Francisco, California,
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`beginning at 8:08 a.m. and ending at 12:20 p.m., on
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`Tuesday, December 16th, 2014, before Monica
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`Lepe- Georg, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11976.
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`2S
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`ESQUIRE
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`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 1
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`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
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`1–4
`Page 3
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`·1· · · · · · · ·US PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · ·APPEARANCES
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`·2· · · · · · ·BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·2
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`·3· ·WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS, INC.,· ·)
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
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`·4· · · · · · · · · Petitioner,· · )
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`·3· ·FOR PETITIONER:
`
`·4· · · · ·GOODWIN PROCTER LLP
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· Case No.:
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`·5· · · · ·BY:· CHARLES H. SANDERS, ESQ.
`
`·5· ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· IPR 2014-00649
`
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)· Patent 7,548,037
`
`·6· ·UUSI, LLC.,· · · · · · · · · ·)
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`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·)
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`·7· · · · · · · · · Patent Owner.· )
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`· · ·______________________________)
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`·8
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`·9
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`10
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`11
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`·6· · · · · · · TIMOTHY J. ROUSSEAU, ESQ.
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`·7· · · · ·Exchange Place
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`·8· · · · ·Boston, Massachusetts 02109
`
`·9· · · · ·Telephone:· 617.570.1000
`
`10· · · · ·Fax:· 617.523.1231
`
`11· · · · ·E-mail:· csanders@goodwinprocter.com
`
`12· · · · · · · · · trousseau@goodwinprocter.com
`
`13
`
`12· · · · · · · DEPOSITION OF FRANCESCO BORRELLI
`
`14· ·FOR PATENT OWNER (Telephonically):
`
`13· · · · · · · · · · · · · Volume 1
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`14· · · · · · · · ·San Francisco, California
`
`15· · · · · · · · Tuesday, December 16th, 2014
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21· · REPORTED BY:
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`· · · MONICA LEPE-GEORG
`
`22· · CSR No. 11976
`
`23· · Job No. 249155
`
`24
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`15· · · · ·HARNESS DICKEY & PIERCE, P.L.C.
`
`16· · · · ·BY:· MONTE L. FALCOFF, ESQ.
`
`17· · · · · · · HEMANT M. KESKAR, ESQ.
`
`18· · · · ·5445 Corporate Drive
`
`19· · · · ·Suite 200
`
`20· · · · ·Troy, Michigan 48098
`
`21· · · · ·Telephone:· 248.641.1600
`
`22· · · · ·Fax:· 248.641.0270
`
`23· · · · ·E-mail:· mlfalcoff@hdp.com
`
`24· · · · · · · · · hkeskar@hdp.com
`
`25· · PAGES 1 - 121
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`·1
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`·2
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`25
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`Page 2
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`·1· · · · · · · · ·INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
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`·2
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`Page 4
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`·3· · · · · · DEPOSITION OF FRANCESCO BORRELLI, VOLUME
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
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`·4· ·NO. 1, taken on behalf of Patent Owner, at Three
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`·4· · EXAMINATION BY MR. FALCOFF· · · · · · · · · · · ·5
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`·5· ·Embarcadero, 24th Floor, San Francisco, California,
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`·5· · EXAMINATION BY MR. SANDERS· · · · · · · · · · ·112
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`·6· ·beginning at 8:08 a.m. and ending at 12:20 p.m., on
`
`·6· · EXAMINATION BY MR. FALCOFF· · · · · · · · · · ·114
`
`·7· ·Tuesday, December 16th, 2014, before Monica
`
`·8· ·Lepe-Georg, Certified Shorthand Reporter No. 11976.
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`14· · · · · · · · · ·INDEX OF EXHIBITS
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`15
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`16· ·EXHIBIT NO.· · · · · · DESCRIPTION· · · · · · ·PAGE
`
`17· · 9· · · · · · Figures 2-A and 2-B· · · · · · · · 96
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`18· · 10· · · · · ·Figures 5D, 5E and 6A· · · · · · · 99
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`19· · 11· · · · · ·Figures 5D, 5E and 5F· · · · · · · 99
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`20· · 12· · · · · ·Webster's New Universal· · · · · ·107
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`21· · · · · · · · ·Unabridged Dictionary
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
`
`OESQVIRE
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2004
`1/31
`
`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 5
`
`·1· · · · · · · · San Francisco, California
`·2· · · · · · · Tuesday, December 16th, 2014
`·3· · · · · · · · ·8:08 a.m. - 12:20 p.m.
`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · ---oOo---
`·5· · · · · · · · · ·FRANCESCO BORRELLI,
`·6· ·having been administered an oath, was examined and
`·7· ·testified as follows:
`·8
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
`10· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`11· · · ·Q.· ·I am Monte Falcoff.· I'm the attorney
`12· ·representing the patent owner, UUSI.
`13· · · · · · And for the record can you please state
`14· ·your full name.
`15· · · ·A.· ·Francesco Borrelli.
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And your birth date, please?
`17· · · ·A.· ·December 17, 1974.
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And your home address?
`19· · · ·A.· ·396 Coventry Road, 94707, Kensington,
`20· ·California.
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Thank you.· Just some ground rules
`22· ·for the deposition.· My job is to ask questions and
`23· ·your job is to answer them today.· Webasto's
`24· ·attorney may object to my questions, but please
`25· ·answer them anyway unless they are attorney-client
`
`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
`
`5–8
`Page 7
`
`·1· ·before?
`·2· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever worked on a Patent
`·4· ·Office Inter Partes Review proceeding before?
`·5· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever been an inventor of a
`·7· ·patent application that discloses automotive window
`·8· ·lift systems or sunroof systems?
`·9· · · ·A.· ·No.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, throughout this deposition I
`11· ·may use certain acronyms or abbreviations, this will
`12· ·include "IPR," for Inter Partes Review; "037 patent"
`13· ·for U.S. Patent 7,548,037; "Bernard" or "GB-723" for
`14· ·UK Patent No. 2 026 723; "Chikaraishi" or "047
`15· ·patent" for U.S. Patent No. 3,888,047.
`16· · · · · · I may interchangeably refer to the patent
`17· ·owner as "UUSI" or its deviating "Nartron"; that's
`18· ·N-a-r-t-r-o-n; and I'll refer to Webasto as "The
`19· ·Petitioner" who filed the present IPR with your
`20· ·expert declaration.
`21· · · · · · So if you are ever unclear about acronyms
`22· ·I'm using please let me know and I'll rephrase the
`23· ·question.
`24· · · · · · Okay.· For the deposition today how much
`25· ·time did you spend preparing for it, approximately?
`
`Page 6
`
`Page 8
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`·1· ·privileged.
`·2· · · · · · You must answer all questions truthfully
`·3· ·under the penalty of perjury.
`·4· · · · · · You must orally answer all questions with a
`·5· ·"yes," "no" or an explanation; "uh-huhs" and shrugs
`·6· ·cannot be picked up by the court reporter nor could
`·7· ·they be picked up by me over the telephone.
`·8· · · · · · I'll do my best to make my questions clear,
`·9· ·but if you don't understand a question please let me
`10· ·know and I will repeat the question.· If you answer
`11· ·my question then I will presume that you understood
`12· ·it.
`13· · · · · · Do you understand these instructions, sir?
`14· · · ·A.· ·I do.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· This deposition is for the United
`16· ·States Patent Office Inter Partes Review proceeding
`17· ·filed by Webasto against UUSI regarding
`18· ·IPR 2014-00649 for U.S. Patent No. 7,548,037.
`19· · · · · · Are you represented by an attorney for this
`20· ·deposition today?
`21· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· Yes.
`22· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Thank you.
`23· · · · · · Have you ever been deposed before?
`24· · · ·A.· ·No.
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever testified at trial
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·Could you be more precise?
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Did you spend approximately eight hours
`·3· ·preparing for it, 40 hours preparing for it, weeks
`·4· ·preparing for it?
`·5· · · ·A.· ·For the case or for the deposition?
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·No, just for the deposition today.· So that
`·7· ·would be after your declaration was signed.
`·8· · · ·A.· ·After my declaration was signed I spent
`·9· ·around 15, 20 hours.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And what did you do to prepare for
`11· ·this deposition?
`12· · · ·A.· ·I have reviewed the petition, the -- my
`13· ·declaration focusing on the 037 patent, Bernard and
`14· ·Chikaraishi.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Anything else?
`16· · · ·A.· ·I have reviewed the 037 patent, the Bernard
`17· ·patent and the Chikaraishi patent.
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Now, did you meet with anyone other than
`19· ·Webasto's attorneys?
`20· · · ·A.· ·No.
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Let's see, what year did you receive
`22· ·your undergraduate engineering degree?
`23· · · ·A.· ·I did receive an engineering degree in
`24· ·Italy called Laurea.· And that is a five-year
`25· ·program which includes an undergrad and a masters.
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2004
`2/31
`
`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 9
`
`·1· ·It's a master program.
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So when did you receive -- did you
`·3· ·receive an undergraduate engineering degree?
`·4· · · ·A.· ·I did receive directly the master.· There
`·5· ·was no undergrad degree at that time in Italy.· So
`·6· ·the master degree, the Laurea, was in I believe
`·7· ·1998.
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And when did you receive your Ph.D.
`·9· ·in engineering?
`10· · · ·A.· ·2002.· I just don't want to make a mistake.
`11· ·Yeah, 2002.
`12· · · ·Q.· ·I hear some papers flipping.· Are you
`13· ·referring to your CV or something?
`14· · · ·A.· ·Yes.· I want to make sure.· Sometimes I
`15· ·forget the time.
`16· · · ·Q.· ·That's fine.· Since I'm on the telephone if
`17· ·you refer to a document please just let me know.
`18· · · ·A.· ·Sure.· I was looking at my CV.· It's 2002.
`19· ·I'm hundred percent sure.
`20· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· I'm just showing him his CV,
`21· ·Monte.
`22· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· That's fine.· Just let me
`23· ·know when you are.· Okay.
`24· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Now, how old were you in April of 1992?
`
`Page 10
`·1· · · ·A.· ·April 1992?· So wait a second, I need -- so
`·2· ·I was born in December '74; '84 I was ten --
`·3· · · · · · You say '92?· Six plus ten, I must have
`·4· ·been 17, right?
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·So you were 17 years old in April of 1992?
`·6· · · ·A.· ·I think -- no, no, I cannot do it.
`·7· · · · · · '74.· '84.· Six, seven, eight -- yeah,
`·8· ·yeah, I was 17.· Yeah.
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, were you an engineer in April
`10· ·of 1992 --
`11· · · ·A.· ·April 1992?
`12· · · ·Q.· ·-- when you were 17?
`13· · · ·A.· ·No.
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Were you a mechanic in April of
`15· ·1992?
`16· · · ·A.· ·No.
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Did you even own an automobile in
`18· ·April of 1992?
`19· · · ·A.· ·No.
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, your current employment --
`21· ·what's your current employer and position?
`22· · · ·A.· ·I am an associate professor at UC Berkeley
`23· ·in the mechanical engineering department.
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you have any other title?
`25· · · ·A.· ·I'm a brown chair assistant professor.
`
`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
`
`9–12
`Page 11
`·1· ·This is a chair given for a merit in the department.
`·2· ·That's one of my title.· And then I'm the CTO of
`·3· ·BrightBox Technologies Incorporated.
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Do you have any other employers currently?
`·5· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you're only an associate
`·7· ·professor, not a full tenured professor right now;
`·8· ·is that correct?
`·9· · · ·A.· ·I am a tenured professor.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·You are?
`11· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, are you a full professor or
`13· ·just an associate professor?
`14· · · ·A.· ·I'm an associate professor.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, how long have you had that
`16· ·title of associate professor?
`17· · · ·A.· ·I need to look at my CV.
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Please do.
`19· · · ·A.· ·So since June 2011.· That's when I got my
`20· ·tenure and I was promoted to assistant professor.
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, prior to April of 1992 had you
`22· ·ever done any engineering work on automotive DC
`23· ·motors, the under control systems in automobiles?
`24· · · ·A.· ·No.
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Prior to May of 2000 have you ever
`
`Page 12
`·1· ·worked on any automotive fractional horsepower DC
`·2· ·motors or their control systems?
`·3· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Did you do any research or
`·5· ·engineering projects prior to April of 1992
`·6· ·specifically for automotive fractional horsepower DC
`·7· ·motors?
`·8· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· How about prior to May of 2000?
`10· · · ·A.· ·No.
`11· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever done any engineering
`12· ·work prior to May of 2000 specifically pertaining to
`13· ·automotive window lift or sunroof systems?
`14· · · ·A.· ·No.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever worked on any
`16· ·automotive sunroof or side window lift systems or
`17· ·their electronic controls at any point in your
`18· ·career prior to the present IPRs?
`19· · · ·A.· ·No.
`20· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· With regard to this IPR, at least as
`21· ·to when you signed your expert declaration, did you
`22· ·discuss any of the facts with any engineers?
`23· · · ·A.· ·No.
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Did you ever have any conversations
`25· ·directly with any Webasto employees?· So that would
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2004
`3/31
`
`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 13
`·1· ·exclude their attorneys present in the room right
`·2· ·now.
`·3· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Prior to signing your expert
`·5· ·declaration in this IPR have you ever specifically
`·6· ·discussed --
`·7· · · · · · THE REPORTER:· I need you to slow down,
`·8· ·please.
`·9· · · · · · Have you ever specifically discussed any...
`10· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`11· · · ·Q.· ·-- any automotive window lift systems for
`12· ·sunroof systems with any engineers who were active
`13· ·in the industry prior to May of 2000?
`14· · · ·A.· ·No.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· What were the typical revolutions
`16· ·per minute of an automotive window lift motor when
`17· ·it was operating at its fastest closing speed prior
`18· ·to May of 2000?
`19· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Vague.
`20· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer if you can.
`21· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I don't know.
`22· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`23· · · ·Q.· ·I'm sorry, did you say, "I don't know"?
`24· · · ·A.· ·I don't know, yes.
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Was the typical closing RPMs be
`
`Page 14
`·1· ·different from a automotive side window motor versus
`·2· ·a sunroof motor in that same time frame?
`·3· · · ·A.· ·I do not know.
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Prior to May of 2000 what is the
`·5· ·typical horsepower of an automotive window lift
`·6· ·motor or sunroof motor?
`·7· · · ·A.· ·I don't know.
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Prior to signing your expert
`·9· ·declaration in this IPR, did you know the details of
`10· ·anti-pinch or anti-trap automotive window sensing
`11· ·and control that were present in production vehicles
`12· ·prior to May of 2000?
`13· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Foundation.
`14· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· You ask if I know the
`15· ·details?
`16· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`17· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· You don't know any of the details?
`18· · · ·A.· ·No.
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever seen any physical
`20· ·automotive window lift motors or sunroof motors
`21· ·prior to signing your expert declaration in this
`22· ·IPR?
`23· · · ·A.· ·Could you repeat the question?
`24· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· Have you ever seen any physical
`25· ·automotive window lift motors or sunroof motors
`
`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
`
`13–16
`Page 15
`·1· ·prior to signing your expert declaration in this
`·2· ·IPR?
`·3· · · ·A.· ·No, I haven't seen the motors.
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Prior to signing your expert
`·5· ·declaration in this IPR have you seen any electrical
`·6· ·diagrams for automotive window lift or sunroof
`·7· ·devices or their control systems that were used in
`·8· ·production automobiles?
`·9· · · ·A.· ·No, I have not.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Prior to signing your expert
`11· ·declaration in this IPR had you seen any software
`12· ·code, charts, or diagrams for same for automotive
`13· ·window lift devices or control systems that were
`14· ·used in production vehicles?
`15· · · ·A.· ·No, I have not.
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever done any garage door
`17· ·opener engineering work in your career?
`18· · · ·A.· ·Could you be specific?· Like which type of
`19· ·work?
`20· · · ·Q.· ·As far as with regard to control systems or
`21· ·the motor for garage door opener.
`22· · · ·A.· ·General, no.
`23· · · ·Q.· ·I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.
`24· · · ·A.· ·No, I did not.
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever reviewed an electrical
`
`Page 16
`
`·1· ·diagram for a garage door opener used in an
`·2· ·industrial or residential building prior to your
`·3· ·work on these IPRs?
`·4· · · ·A.· ·No.
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Did you ever review an electrical
`·6· ·diagram for garage door opener prior to signing your
`·7· ·declaration in the present IPR?
`·8· · · ·A.· ·Could you repeat the question.
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Have you ever reviewed an electrical
`10· ·diagram for a garage door opener prior to your
`11· ·signing your expert declaration in the present IPR?
`12· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Vague.
`13· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer if you can.
`14· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I have reviewed the documents
`15· ·which allow me to sign the declaration and in some
`16· ·of the patents there are explanation and diagrams
`17· ·regarding garage doors opening.
`18· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Thank you.
`20· · · · · · So have you ever reviewed any electrical
`21· ·diagrams that were actually used in real world
`22· ·industrial or residential building garage door
`23· ·openers prior to signing your IPR declaration?
`24· · · ·A.· ·The one I reviewed I cannot claim if they
`25· ·were using real world or not.· I do not know.
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2004
`4/31
`
`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 17
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever reviewed software code
`·2· ·used for real-world garage door openers prior to
`·3· ·signing your expert declaration in this IPR?
`·4· · · ·A.· ·And "real world" you mean --
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·In production.
`·6· · · ·A.· ·-- it's in production?
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Sold to customers.
`·8· · · ·A.· ·If I reviewed -- I don't know if it was
`·9· ·sold or not, so the answer is no.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever spoken to an engineer
`11· ·who designed garage door opener obstruction
`12· ·detection systems prior to May of 2000?
`13· · · ·A.· ·No, I have not.
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Have you ever read the underwriters'
`15· ·laboratory garage door opener standards that were in
`16· ·place prior to May of 2000?
`17· · · ·A.· ·Could you repeat again.
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Have you ever read the underwriters'
`19· ·laboratory garage door opener standards that were in
`20· ·place prior to May of 2000?
`21· · · ·A.· ·I do not recall.
`22· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever read the underwriters'
`23· ·laboratory garage door opener standards that were in
`24· ·place prior to April of 1992?
`25· · · ·A.· ·I don't recall.
`
`Page 18
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· ·What is the typical accuracy of an
`·2· ·obstruction detection device for a garage door
`·3· ·opener prior to May of 2000?
`·4· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Vague.
`·5· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Could you be more specific?
`·6· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you know what the typical
`·8· ·accuracy of a garage door opener obstruction
`·9· ·detection device was prior to May of 2000?
`10· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Same objection.
`11· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Accuracy in position, speed,
`12· ·acceleration?
`13· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Any of those.
`14· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`15· · · ·Q.· ·What was the accuracy as far as you know?
`16· · · ·A.· ·I don't know.
`17· · · ·Q.· ·That's fine.
`18· · · · · · Would the construction and function of a
`19· ·garage door opener prior to May of 2000 have been
`20· ·accurate and quick enough to not hurt a child whose
`21· ·foot is between the bottom of a closing door and a
`22· ·garage floor?
`23· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Vague.
`24· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I don't know.
`25· ·/////
`
`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
`
`17–20
`Page 19
`
`·1· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you expect that garage door
`·3· ·opener safety standards to have been different or
`·4· ·the same as compared to automotive window safety
`·5· ·standards prior to May of 2000?
`·6· · · ·A.· ·I don't know.
`·7· · · ·Q.· ·Do you consider yourself to have been a
`·8· ·person of ordinary skill in the art of the 037
`·9· ·patent at the present time?
`10· · · ·A.· ·For what concerns, the understanding, and
`11· ·the claims, I believe I do.
`12· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you consider a person of ordinary
`13· ·skill in the art of the 037 patent to have a Ph.D.
`14· ·in engineering; is that what you're saying?
`15· · · ·A.· ·No.
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So let me reask the question.
`17· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.
`18· · · ·Q.· ·Do you consider yourself to currently be a
`19· ·person of ordinary skill in the art of the 037
`20· ·patent?
`21· · · ·A.· ·No.
`22· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Ambiguous.
`23· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer if you can.
`24· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I would say today, regarding
`25· ·the claims -- understanding of the claim, I, myself,
`
`Page 20
`·1· ·with a Ph.D., I probably am considered an expert in
`·2· ·control.
`·3· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·4· · · ·Q.· ·Do you consider yourself to be a person of
`·5· ·ordinary skill in the art of the 037 patent as you
`·6· ·exist right now?
`·7· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Ambiguous.
`·8· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer if you can.
`·9· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Again, today, regarding to
`10· ·the control design of the 037 patent I'm considered
`11· ·an expert because I'm an expert in control design.
`12· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`13· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So you consider -- I'm just trying
`14· ·to clarify your answer 'cause you're answering
`15· ·something slightly different than what I ask.
`16· · · · · · Do you consider an expert to be a person of
`17· ·ordinary skill in the art of the 037 patent?
`18· · · · · · Are they the same or different to you in
`19· ·your mind?
`20· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Ambiguous.
`21· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer if you can.
`22· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No.· An expert is definitely
`23· ·not a person of ordinary skill.
`24· · · · · · My answer -- I want to clarify my first
`25· ·answer, the understanding is right.· I further do
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2004
`5/31
`
`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 21
`
`·1· ·answer it with if I could -- if I could point to a
`·2· ·person ordinary skill in the art and I said yes.
`·3· ·I'm not a person skilled in the art; I am an expert
`·4· ·in a control system design.
`·5· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Do you consider yourself to have
`·7· ·been a technical expert in automotive window motors
`·8· ·in the controls that were known prior to May of
`·9· ·2000?
`10· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Ambiguous.
`11· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer.
`12· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· So are you asking if I am now
`13· ·a technical expert or if prior to 2000 I was an
`14· ·expert?
`15· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`16· · · ·Q.· ·I'm asking if you now are an expert with
`17· ·regard to automotive window motors and their control
`18· ·systems as they were known prior to May of 2000.
`19· · · ·A.· ·I'm an expert of control systems as they
`20· ·were known prior to 2000.
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And that's because of your -- what
`22· ·activity prior to May of 2000 would make you an
`23· ·expert for knowledge at that time?
`24· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Misleading.
`25· ·Improper foundation.
`
`Page 22
`·1· · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Please answer if you can.
`·2· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· No, you ask if now I'm an
`·3· ·expert of knowledge prior to 2000?
`·4· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·That's correct.
`·6· · · ·A.· ·And I answered yes because of all the
`·7· ·activities that I do now in teaching control system
`·8· ·and my professional activities with automotive
`·9· ·industry.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Let's turn to the Chikaraishi 047
`11· ·patent if you would, please.· Let me know when you
`12· ·have it.
`13· · · ·A.· ·I have it in front of me.
`14· · · ·Q.· ·If you look at the cover page of the
`15· ·Chikaraishi 047 patent, the first page.
`16· · · ·A.· ·Yes.
`17· · · ·Q.· ·If you look to the left-hand side it shows
`18· ·the foreign application priority date, which means
`19· ·it was filed in Japan in 1972, correct?
`20· · · ·A.· ·Filed -- I have here May 27th, 1973.
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· So that would be the U.S. filing
`22· ·date.
`23· · · · · · Are you familiar with what that means under
`24· ·the left column there where it says, "Foreign
`25· ·Application Priority Date:· May 23rd, 1972" and it
`
`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
`
`21–24
`Page 23
`
`·1· ·says "Japan"; do you know what that means?
`·2· · · ·A.· ·Yeah, I've been told that.· You just
`·3· ·reminded me, yes.
`·4· · · · · · So the U.S. foreign application is
`·5· ·May 23, 1972.
`·6· · · ·Q.· ·So that's when this -- I want to clarify
`·7· ·that your understanding and mine is the same.· So
`·8· ·that means that in May 23, 1972, this application
`·9· ·was originally filed in Japan on that date, correct?
`10· · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`11· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· And this patent -- the Chikaraishi
`12· ·patent issued -- if you look in the upper right-hand
`13· ·corner it says June 10 of 1975, right?
`14· · · ·A.· ·Correct.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Then if you turn to Figure 1, and
`16· ·then also -- maybe put your finger there, and look
`17· ·at Column 1 around lines 40 and 41.
`18· · · · · · My question is a crank handle is what is
`19· ·used to rotate the pinion gear 24, correct?
`20· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.
`21· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· Where should I read from?
`22· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`23· · · ·Q.· ·This is Column 1 of the text around lines
`24· ·40 and 41.· You see the line numbers going down the
`25· ·center of the page?
`
`Page 24
`
`·1· · · ·A.· ·A crank handle --
`·2· · · ·Q.· ·It says, "Which is driven by pinion gear 24
`·3· ·operated by a crank handle or other simple means not
`·4· ·shown."
`·5· · · · · · So the Chikaraishi 047 patent is only
`·6· ·describing that crank handle rotating that pinion
`·7· ·gear 24, correct?
`·8· · · ·A.· ·I don't know the detail answer to this.
`·9· · · ·Q.· ·Why not?
`10· · · ·A.· ·Because it's a mechanical system.· As I --
`11· ·as I mentioned, I'm a control system expert.· I will
`12· ·need to look in the details and hold the patent and
`13· ·see if -- to answer your question.
`14· · · ·Q.· ·If you need to read the patent feel free.
`15· · · ·A.· ·Could you repeat the question again.
`16· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.· So the Chikaraishi 047 patent only
`17· ·discloses using a crank handle to rotate the pinion
`18· ·gear 24, correct?
`19· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Incomplete.
`20· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· I cannot make this claim.
`21· ·This is describing a figure where there is a pinion
`22· ·gear 24 operated by crank handle.· That's what I can
`23· ·read on these lines.
`24· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Right.· So it's only disclosing a crank
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2004
`6/31
`
`

`

`
`FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1 FRANCESCO BORRELLI Volume 1
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 25
`
`·1· ·handle and not an electric motor, for example,
`·2· ·correct?
`·3· · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Objection.· Incomplete.
`·4· · · · · · THE WITNESS:· In this line -- this is what
`·5· ·this line is stating.· I don't know if this
`·6· ·patent --
`·7· ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·8· · · ·Q.· ·Feel free to read the rest of the patent if
`·9· ·you want.· I'd like an answer to the question,
`10· ·please.
`11· · · · · · Please let me know when you are done
`12· ·reading it.
`13· · · ·A.· ·Sure.
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.
`15· · · ·A.· ·I don't think this patent discloses a --
`16· ·this patent discusses a window regulator mechanism.
`17· ·And as an example it's describing Figure 1 and
`18· ·Figure 2 to describe prior art.· Okay.
`19· · · · · · And so Figure A is just discussing Figure 1
`20· ·and Figure 2.· The disclosure is about the
`21· ·regulator, which is referring to Figure 1 and 2.· So
`22· ·page 31 of a window regulator makes mechanism
`23· ·extinct, okay, which is in a different part of the
`24· ·picture.· It's not focusing on the 24.
`25· · · · · · So then you see the title is "Window
`
`Page 26
`·1· ·Regulator" and the claims are about the window
`·2· ·regulator mechanism as in --
`·3· · · · · · So you're statement, this discloses, I'm
`·4· ·not sure if it is correct.
`·5· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Does this Chikaraishi 047 patent
`·6· ·describe or disclose an electric motor for driving
`·7· ·the regulator?
`·8· · · ·A.· ·This patent does not describe -- it's not
`·9· ·describing an electric motor.
`10· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Now, Chikaraishi does not disclose
`11· ·use of an electronic control or a microprocessor
`12· ·either, correct?
`13· · · ·A.· ·That's correct.
`14· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Have you ever seen an automotive
`15· ·vehicle door that had no frame surrounding a raised
`16· ·window so you can put your hand on the top edge of
`17· ·the raised window when the door is open?
`18· · · ·A.· ·You ask if I have seen one?
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.
`20· · · ·A.· ·I don't know if I have seen one.
`21· · · ·Q.· ·Really, okay.
`22· · · · · · So every vehicle -- well, let me ask the
`23· ·question.· Chikaraishi does not disclose use of a
`24· ·window frame, correct?
`25· · · ·A.· ·I think I'm confused by your word
`
`December 16, 2014December 16, 2014
`
`25–28
`Page 27
`·1· ·disclosing.· I think the disclosure is about this
`·2· ·regulator and it's using figures like prior art.
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Let me rephrase the question then if you're
`·4· ·misunderstanding my words.
`·5· · · · · · Now, the Chikaraishi 047 patent does not
`·6· ·describe in the text or show in any of the figures a
`·7· ·window frame, correct?
`·8· · · ·A.· ·The figure of the Chikaraishi of describing
`·9· ·prior art does not have windows framed, that is
`10· ·correct.
`11· · · ·Q.· ·So a window frame is not disclosed --
`12· ·either shown in the figures or described in the text
`13· ·anywhere in the Chikaraishi patent, correct?
`14· · · ·A.· ·Let me read if it's in the text.
`15· · · ·Q.· ·Sure.
`16· · · ·A.· ·The patent is focused on moving the pin up
`17· ·and down, so it's all about the door.· So there's no
`18· ·reference to a framing here.
`19· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Are you familiar with the automotive
`20· ·terms a -- "roof rail"?
`21· · · ·A.· ·Roof rail?
`22· · · ·Q.· ·That's a standard automotive term; are you
`23· ·familiar with the term roof rail?
`24· · · ·A.· ·Yeah.· Yes, I am.
`25· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Are you familiar with the terms "A
`
`Page 28
`
`·1· ·pillar" and "B pillar" in an automobile?
`·2· · · ·A.· ·I'm not.
`·3· · · ·Q.· ·Okay.· Just to make sure we're using the
`·4· ·same terminology, when I refer to an A pillar that's
`·5· ·the structural part of the vehicle that extends from
`·6· ·the front door up to the roof, windshield attaches
`·7· ·to that; and the B pillar is the structural pillar
`·8· ·that's generally vertical between the front door and
`·9· ·rear door of a car.
`10· · · · · · So now are you clear on how I'm going to
`11· ·use the terms "A pillar" and "B pillar"?
`12· · · ·A.· ·One second.· Could you repeat them.
`13· · · ·Q.· ·Yes.· So the A pillar is the body
`14· ·structure, the sheet metal of the car, that's
`15· ·extending from where the front door attaches to the
`16· ·vehicle up to the roof, so the front windshield
`17· ·partially rests against it.
`18· · · · · · The B pillar is the generally vertical
`19· ·sheet metal structur