HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 1
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`December 10, 2014
`1 -4
`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES:
`
`GOODWIN PROCTER, LLP
`(by Charles H. Sanders, Esquire)
`Exchange Place
`Boston, Massachusetts 02109
`(617) 570 -1000
`Fax (617) 523 -1231
`csanders @goodwinprocter.com
`for the Petitioner.
`
`APPEARANCES VIA TELEPHONE:
`
`HARNESS, DICKEY & PIERCE, P.L.C.
`(by Monte L. Falcoff, Esquire
`and Hemant M. Keskar, Esquire)
`5445 Corporate Drive, Suite 200
`Troy, Michigan 48098
`(248) 641 -1600
`Fax (248) 641 -0270
`mlfalcoff @hdp.com
`for the Patent Owner.
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`I N D E X
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`Page 4
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`DEPONENT:
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`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, Ph.D.
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`UNITED STATES PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS, INC.
`
`Petitioner
`
`v.
`
`UDSI, LLC
`
`Patent Owner
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`Case IPR2014 -00648
`
`Patent 8,217,612
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`Case IPR2014 -00650
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`Patent 7,579,802
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`Examination by Mr. Falcoff
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`Examination by Mr. Sanders
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`6, 208
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`196
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`E X H I B I T S
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`No.
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`Description
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`DEPOSITION OF
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`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, Ph.D.
`
`December 10, 2014
`
`10:17 a.m.
`
`Goodwin Procter, LLP
`
`Exchange Place
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`Boston, Massachusetts
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`Kristin M. Kelley, RPR, CRR
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`Q ESQUIRE
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`

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`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`·1
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`·2· ·UNITED STATES PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`·3
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`·4· · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`Page 1
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`·5
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`·6
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`·7· · · · · · WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS, INC.
`
`·8· · · · · · · · · ·Petitioner
`
`·9· · · · · · · · · · · ·v.
`
`10· · · · · · · · · · UUSI, LLC
`
`11· · · · · · · · · Patent Owner
`
`12
`
`13
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`14· · · · · · · ·Case IPR2014-00648
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`15· · · · · · · · Patent 8,217,612
`
`16
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`17· · · · · · · ·Case IPR2014-00650
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`18· · · · · · · · Patent 7,579,802
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`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
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`1–4
`Page 3
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`·1· ·APPEARANCES:
`·2
`·3· ·GOODWIN PROCTER, LLP
`· · · (by Charles H. Sanders, Esquire)
`·4· · Exchange Place
`· · · Boston, Massachusetts 02109
`·5· · (617) 570-1000
`· · · Fax (617) 523-1231
`·6· · csanders@goodwinprocter.com
`· · · for the Petitioner.
`·7
`·8
`· · ·APPEARANCES VIA TELEPHONE:
`·9
`10· ·HARNESS, DICKEY & PIERCE, P.L.C.
`· · · (by Monte L. Falcoff, Esquire
`11· · and Hemant M. Keskar, Esquire)
`· · · 5445 Corporate Drive, Suite 200
`12· · Troy, Michigan 48098
`· · · (248) 641-1600
`13· · Fax (248) 641-0270
`· · · mlfalcoff@hdp.com
`14· · for the Patent Owner.
`15
`16
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`·1
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`·2
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`·3
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`·4
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`·5· · · · · ·DEPOSITION OF
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`·6· · · HAMID A. TOLIYAT, Ph.D.
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`·7
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`·8
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`·9
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`10· · · · ·December 10, 2014
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`11· · · · · · 10:17 a.m.
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`12
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`13
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`14· · · ·Goodwin Procter, LLP
`
`15· · · · · Exchange Place
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`16· · · ·Boston, Massachusetts
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23· ·Kristin M. Kelley, RPR, CRR
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`24
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`OESQVIRE
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`Page 2
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`Page 4
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`·2· ·DEPONENT:· · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
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`·3· ·HAMID A. TOLIYAT, Ph.D.
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`·4· · Examination by Mr. Falcoff· · · · ·6, 208
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`·5· · Examination by Mr. Sanders· · · · · · 196
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`·6
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`·7
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`· · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
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`·8
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`·9· ·No.· · · · Description· · · · · · · · PAGE
`
`10· ·2· · ·'612 Declaration of Toliyat· · · ·5
`
`11· ·5· · ·'802 Declaration of Toliyat· · · ·5
`
`12· ·8· · ·4,870,333 Patent· · · · · · · · · 5
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`13· ·9· · ·4,468,596 Patent· · · · · · · · · 5
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`14· ·10· · German DE 40 00 730 A 1 Patent· · 5
`
`15· ·11· · UK Patent GB 2 026 723 A· · · · · 5
`
`16· ·12· · 5,218,282 Patent· · · · · · · · · 5
`
`17· ·13· · 4,831,509 Patent· · · · · · · · · 5
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`18· ·14· · Amazon.com printout· · · · · · · 45
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`19· ·15· · Two page article· · · · · · · · ·45
`
`20
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`24
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`2/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 5
`
`·1· · · · · · · HAMID A. TOLIYAT, Ph.D.
`·2· · · · · · · · ·DECEMBER 10, 2014
`·3· · · · · · · · · · PROCEEDINGS
`·4
`·5· · · · · · · HAMID A. TOLIYAT, Ph.D., a
`·6· ·witness called for examination by counsel
`·7· ·for the Patent Owner, was examined and
`·8· ·testified as follows:
`·9
`10· · · · · · ('612 Declaration of Toliyat marked
`11· ·Toliyat 2 for Identification.)
`12· · · · · · ('802 Declaration of Toliyat marked
`13· ·Toliyat 5 for Identification.)
`14· · · · · · (4,870,333 Patent marked Toliyat 8
`15· ·for Identification.)
`16· · · · · · (4,468,596 Patent marked Toliyat 9
`17· ·for Identification.)
`18· · · · · · (German DE 40 00 730 A 1 Patent
`19· ·marked Toliyat 10 for Identification.)
`20· · · · · · (UK Patent GB 2 026 723 A marked
`21· ·Toliyat 11 for Identification.)
`22· · · · · · (5,218,282 Patent marked Toliyat 12
`23· ·for Identification.)
`24· · · · · · (4,831,509 Patent marked Toliyat 13
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`5–8
`Page 7
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`·1· · · ·telephone.
`·2· · · · · · ·I'll do my best to make questions
`·3· · · ·clear.· If you don't understand a question,
`·4· · · ·please let me know and I'll rephrase or
`·5· · · ·repeat the question.
`·6· · · · · · ·If you answer my question, I'll
`·7· · · ·presume that you understand it.
`·8· · · · · · ·Do you understand these instructions?
`·9· ·A.· Sure.
`10· ·Q.· This deposition, just for the record, is for
`11· · · ·two of the US Patent Office Inter Partes
`12· · · ·Review proceedings filed by Webasto against
`13· · · ·UUSI.· They are IPR 2014-00650 and US Patent
`14· · · ·number IPR 2014-00648 for patent 8,217,612.
`15· · · · · · ·Are you represented by an attorney
`16· · · ·today at this deposition?
`17· ·A.· No, I'm not.· I don't have a personal
`18· · · ·attorney.· Is that the question?
`19· ·Q.· That's correct.
`20· · · · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· I'm here though,
`21· · · ·Monte, still confirming, and I'll be
`22· · · ·representing Dr. Toliyat today on behalf of
`23· · · ·my client, Webasto.
`24· · · · · · · · MR. FALCOFF:· Okay.· So you are
`
`Page 6
`
`Page 8
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`·1· · · ·for Identification.)
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`·3· · · ·BY MR. FALCOFF:
`·4· ·Q.· I'm Monte Falcoff.· I'm representing the
`·5· · · ·patent owner, UUSI.· Can you please state
`·6· · · ·your full name for the record.
`·7· ·A.· Hamid Toliyat.
`·8· ·Q.· Your birth date and home address, please?
`·9· ·A.· 4/26/57, 803 Prestwick Court,
`10· · · ·P-R-E-S-T-W-I-C-K, Court, College Station,
`11· · · ·Texas, 77845.
`12· ·Q.· Thank you.· Great.· My job is to ask
`13· · · ·questions and your job is to answer them
`14· · · ·today.
`15· ·A.· Okay.
`16· ·Q.· The attorneys in the room may object to my
`17· · · ·questions, but please answer them anyway
`18· · · ·unless they're attorney-client privileged.
`19· · · · · · ·You must answer all questions
`20· · · ·truthfully under the penalty of perjury and
`21· · · ·you must orally answer all questions with a
`22· · · ·"yes", "no", or explanation.· "Uh-huh" and
`23· · · ·shrugs cannot be picked up by the court
`24· · · ·reporter and probably not by me on the
`
`·1· · · ·acting as the attorney for Dr. Toliyat for
`·2· · · ·this deposition?
`·3· · · · · · · · MR. SANDERS:· Correct, for this
`·4· · · ·deposition.
`·5· ·Q.· Dr. Toliyat, have you ever been deposed
`·6· · · ·before?
`·7· ·A.· Yes, I have.
`·8· ·Q.· And how many times?· An approximation is
`·9· · · ·good enough.
`10· ·A.· Okay.· Maybe four or five times.
`11· ·Q.· Okay.· And, of those, how many were patent
`12· · · ·lawsuits?
`13· ·A.· I think they were all patent lawsuits.
`14· ·Q.· Have you ever testified at trial?
`15· ·A.· Yes, I have.
`16· ·Q.· Were any of those patent lawsuits?
`17· ·A.· Yes, it was, at ITC.
`18· ·Q.· Okay.· And have you ever, in any of the
`19· · · ·depositions or trial testimony, have you
`20· · · ·ever represented the patent owner?
`21· ·A.· I might but I don't recall.· I'm not very
`22· · · ·clear.· I don't have my resume in front of
`23· · · ·me, the detailed resume.
`24· ·Q.· Okay.
`
`OESQVIRE
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`3/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 9
`
`·1· ·A.· Sorry.
`·2· ·Q.· Okay.· So, to the best of your recollection,
`·3· · · ·you were representing the person defending
`·4· · · ·the lawsuit or challenging the patent?
`·5· ·A.· Yes.
`·6· ·Q.· Have you ever worked on a US Patent Office
`·7· · · ·Inter Partes Review before?
`·8· ·A.· Yes, I have.
`·9· ·Q.· And for what company?
`10· ·A.· I'm not sure if I can disclose it or not.
`11· ·Q.· Let me ask you the next question.· Have you
`12· · · ·submitted an expert declaration in that
`13· · · ·matter?
`14· ·A.· Correct.· Yes, I have.
`15· ·Q.· You have?
`16· ·A.· Yes.
`17· ·Q.· Was it on behalf of the patent owner or the
`18· · · ·petitioner challenging the patent?
`19· ·A.· It was on behalf of the petitioner.
`20· ·Q.· Have you had your deposition taken in that
`21· · · ·Inter Partes Review proceeding?
`22· ·A.· Yes, yes, I have.
`23· ·Q.· I note that you've been a named inventor on
`24· · · ·some patents, is that correct?
`
`Page 10
`
`·1· ·A.· That's correct.
`·2· ·Q.· Did any of these patent applications or
`·3· · · ·patents disclose window lift systems or
`·4· · · ·roofless systems in automobiles?
`·5· ·A.· No.
`·6· ·Q.· Now, throughout this deposition I'm going to
`·7· · · ·use certain acronyms or abbreviations. I
`·8· · · ·just want to make sure you and I are talking
`·9· · · ·apples to apples, so let me review the list.
`10· · · · · · ·I may use IPR standing for Inter
`11· · · ·Partes Review.
`12· ·A.· Okay.
`13· ·Q.· I may use '802 patent for US Patent number
`14· · · ·7,579,802.· I may use '612 patent as an
`15· · · ·abbreviation for US Patent number 8,217,612.
`16· · · ·I may use Itoh, I-T-O-H, or '333 patent for
`17· · · ·US Patent number 4,870,333.· I may use
`18· · · ·Kinzl, K-I-N-Z-L, or '596 patent for US
`19· · · ·Patent number 4,468,596.· I may use Jones or
`20· · · ·'509 patent for US Patent number 4,831,509.
`21· · · ·I may use Lamm, L-A-M-M, or German 730
`22· · · ·patent for German patent number 40 00 730
`23· · · ·A1, and that would include its English
`24· · · ·language translation when I'm referring to
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`9–12
`Page 11
`·1· · · ·Lamm.· Duhame, D-U-H-A-M-E, or '282 patent
`·2· · · ·for US Patent number 5,218,282.· I may use
`·3· · · ·Bernard, B-E-R-N-A-R-D, or Great Britain
`·4· · · ·'723 patent for UK patent number 2 026 723.
`·5· · · ·I may interchangeably refer to the patent
`·6· · · ·owner as UUSI or it's d/b/a name of Nartron.
`·7· · · ·I may refer to Webasto, which is the
`·8· · · ·petitioner who filed the present IPR for
`·9· · · ·expert declarations.
`10· · · · · · ·Are those clear to you?
`11· ·A.· Yes.
`12· ·Q.· And, again, if you don't recall, just ask.
`13· ·A.· Sure.
`14· ·Q.· With regard to your preparation for this
`15· · · ·deposition, how much time did you spend
`16· · · ·preparing for this deposition today
`17· · · ·approximately?
`18· ·A.· I would say probably somewhere in the range
`19· · · ·of -- I have a list, of course, but I
`20· · · ·haven't put them together as such.· I would
`21· · · ·say --
`22· ·Q.· Just estimate then.
`23· ·A.· Yeah.· Probably between somewhere in the
`24· · · ·range of 20 to 40 hours or 50 hours past
`
`Page 12
`·1· · · ·couple of weeks, and then a couple of days
`·2· · · ·in here.
`·3· ·Q.· How did you prepare?· What did you look at?
`·4· ·A.· I looked at the references, I mean the
`·5· · · ·patents, of course, the '802 and '612
`·6· · · ·patents.· I also looked at the references,
`·7· · · ·my declarations on the '802 and '612.· And I
`·8· · · ·glanced through the exhibits and so on and
`·9· · · ·so forth.
`10· ·Q.· Okay.· Did you look at anybody's deposition
`11· · · ·testimony?
`12· ·A.· I did glance at the deposition testimony of
`13· · · ·Dr. McCauley.
`14· ·Q.· Sorry.· Say that again.
`15· ·A.· Dr. McCauley or Dr. McCalley.
`16· ·Q.· Okay.· Did you meet with anybody besides the
`17· · · ·Webasto attorneys in preparation for the
`18· · · ·deposition?
`19· ·A.· No.
`20· ·Q.· What is your current employment?
`21· ·A.· I'm a professor, a Raytheon professor at
`22· · · ·Texas A&M University.
`23· ·Q.· Okay.· What subject do you teach there?
`24· ·A.· I teach electric machine design, electric
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`4/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 13
`
`·1· · · ·machine control, advanced control of
`·2· · · ·electric machinery, and I do teach also
`·3· · · ·motion control, DSP-based motion control.
`·4· · · ·It's a course that I developed, which I have
`·5· · · ·a textbook.· In fact, it's the only textbook
`·6· · · ·which went out of print in the field of
`·7· · · ·DSP-based motor control.
`·8· ·Q.· Okay.· And do you have any other current
`·9· · · ·employment besides your professorship?
`10· ·A.· No.· I do, once in a while, consulting on
`11· · · ·technical matters related to design of
`12· · · ·electric machines control, power converters.
`13· ·Q.· Okay.· How long have you been an employee of
`14· · · ·Texas A&M?
`15· ·A.· 20 years, for the past 20 years.
`16· ·Q.· And you're a full professor right now?
`17· ·A.· Yes, I am.· I'm a Raytheon professor.
`18· ·Q.· Now, I see from your CV attached to your
`19· · · ·expert declarations that you previously
`20· · · ·worked for the Electro-Motive Division of
`21· · · ·General Motors Corporation, is that correct?
`22· ·A.· That's correct, yes.
`23· ·Q.· How long did you work for them?
`24· ·A.· Well, this was when I was doing my Ph.D. at
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`13–16
`Page 15
`·1· ·A.· Well, I was getting the paycheck from the
`·2· · · ·University of Wisconsin.· That's how usually
`·3· · · ·what the university system is.· The
`·4· · · ·companies pay the university, the university
`·5· · · ·pays the students or employee or faculty or
`·6· · · ·whatever.
`·7· ·Q.· In January through May of 1991 you were
`·8· · · ·actually an employee of the University of
`·9· · · ·Wisconsin, is that correct?
`10· ·A.· Absolutely.· Absolutely.
`11· ·Q.· And what products did you work on for the
`12· · · ·Electro-Motive division of General Motors?
`13· ·A.· It was the main generator on the locomotive.
`14· · · ·I was working on a new type of generator.
`15· · · ·It's a diesel large generator and there's a
`16· · · ·big locomotive so I was working on that
`17· · · ·system, design of that generator and its
`18· · · ·control.
`19· ·Q.· Were you actually working on the design of
`20· · · ·the generator or just the winding machine
`21· · · ·that would wind the wire of the generator?
`22· ·A.· No, the generator.· It was a new design.
`23· ·Q.· What was the horsepower of that generator?
`24· ·A.· That's a very good question.
`
`Page 14
`·1· · · ·UW Madison.· I worked on a project, a funded
`·2· · · ·project, which my advisor back then had with
`·3· · · ·GMC EMD.· I don't know what their name is
`·4· · · ·these days but back then it was called
`·5· · · ·Electro-Motive Division.· It was a few
`·6· · · ·months.· I don't recall exactly.· This was
`·7· · · ·like 20 some years ago.
`·8· ·Q.· January to May of 1991 sound correct?
`·9· ·A.· Yes, yes.
`10· ·Q.· Why was it such a short period of time?
`11· ·A.· Because the project it was -- I finished my
`12· · · ·dissertation so my advisor asked me to help
`13· · · ·with this project before graduation. I
`14· · · ·graduated in May and I left Wisconsin, so I
`15· · · ·submitted a final report and then left,
`16· · · ·finished and graduated.· It was on the
`17· · · ·locomotive traction system back then.
`18· ·Q.· So like a train locomotive?
`19· ·A.· Correct, correct.
`20· ·Q.· So were you actually a direct employee for
`21· · · ·Electro-Motive Division at General Motors at
`22· · · ·that time?
`23· ·A.· No.
`24· ·Q.· So who did you get your paycheck through?
`
`Page 16
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`·1· ·Q.· Approximately?
`·2· ·A.· I would say about a thousand horsepower.
`·3· ·Q.· One thousand?
`·4· ·A.· About, yeah, somewhere in that range.
`·5· ·Q.· Was that a diesel driven generator?
`·6· ·A.· Correct.· It was a diesel driven.
`·7· ·Q.· And what was the -- so the electromagnetic
`·8· · · ·rotor portion of that Electro-Motive
`·9· · · ·Division of General Motors device was acting
`10· · · ·as a generator, not as a motor, correct?
`11· ·A.· That's correct.· It was -- the generator was
`12· · · ·fitting -- there were two type of
`13· · · ·generators.· Sorry.· Two type of locomotive.
`14· · · ·I can't recall the number but it was a two
`15· · · ·axle or three axle, if I recall correctly,
`16· · · ·with the traction motor on the axle.· So
`17· · · ·this generator, it was fitting this track
`18· · · ·generator, this traction motor.
`19· · · · · · ·Back then the technology was the
`20· · · ·traction motors were DC so GMC EMD at the
`21· · · ·time, they were looking at using
`22· · · ·AC-induction motor in place of DC.· So the
`23· · · ·question, of course, back then was if there
`24· · · ·is a way to reduce the size of the
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`5/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 17
`·1· · · ·generator, the weight of the generator, not
`·2· · · ·changing the horsepower of course, so
`·3· · · ·basically increasing the power density of
`·4· · · ·the generator.
`·5· ·Q.· Was that a DC or an AC generator?
`·6· ·A.· It was an AC generator.· It was a six phase
`·7· · · ·generator.· Anyway, it was a three phase
`·8· · · ·generator, but the way that the windings
`·9· · · ·were set, it was like a six phase without
`10· · · ·any phase shift.
`11· ·Q.· So --
`12· ·A.· Sorry.
`13· ·Q.· That's fine.· Could these General Motors
`14· · · ·Electro-Motive Division devices that you
`15· · · ·worked on been used to move windows in
`16· · · ·production passenger cars?
`17· ·A.· I mean, no, of course not.· These are
`18· · · ·generators, large generators.
`19· ·Q.· Okay.· Other than the GM Electro-Motive
`20· · · ·Division, have you ever worked for an
`21· · · ·automotive company or supplier of an
`22· · · ·automotive company prior to April of 1992?
`23· ·A.· I don't recall, no.· I don't think so.
`24· ·Q.· Were you ever employed as an engineer prior
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`17–20
`Page 19
`·1· · · ·talking about work at the temperature ranges
`·2· · · ·and durability requirements required for
`·3· · · ·automobiles in the early 1990s?
`·4· ·A.· That's exactly what I meant.· Usually, you
`·5· · · ·don't expect the same extreme temperature
`·6· · · ·variation on a household appliance comparing
`·7· · · ·to an automobile which can be subjected to
`·8· · · ·various, very low temperature or high
`·9· · · ·temperature.
`10· ·Q.· Have you done any research or engineering
`11· · · ·projects prior to March of 2002 specifically
`12· · · ·on control systems or fractional horsepower
`13· · · ·DC motors used in automobiles?
`14· ·A.· Before 2002?
`15· ·Q.· Yes.
`16· ·A.· For window or any part of vehicle?
`17· ·Q.· Fractional horsepower DC used anywhere in
`18· · · ·automobiles.
`19· ·A.· I don't recall.
`20· ·Q.· Have you ever worked on any automotive
`21· · · ·sunroof or side window lift systems or
`22· · · ·electronic controls for such at any time in
`23· · · ·your career prior to the present IPR's?
`24· ·A.· I don't recall.
`
`Page 18
`
`Page 20
`
`·1· · · ·to April of 1992 to work specifically on
`·2· · · ·fractional horsepower DC motors or their
`·3· · · ·control systems used in automobiles?
`·4· ·A.· I don't recall.· I have worked on the -- I
`·5· · · ·have worked on universal motors, like small
`·6· · · ·motors for a food processor or a grinder.
`·7· ·Q.· But nothing for automobiles?
`·8· ·A.· No.
`·9· ·Q.· Prior to April of 1992, correct?
`10· ·A.· No.· April of -- no.· But I have done --
`11· · · ·I've worked on DC or universal type of
`12· · · ·motor, small ones, fractional, back in I
`13· · · ·would say 80s, beginning of 80s.
`14· ·Q.· Can you directly take one of those motors
`15· · · ·and move a window or automobile with it in a
`16· · · ·production automobile?
`17· ·A.· Yes and no.· It's a single motor that is
`18· · · ·used in a winder -- I mean in an automobile
`19· · · ·window, but, of course, you have to do
`20· · · ·certain other things to it and make sure
`21· · · ·that it's reliable.· You know, auto industry
`22· · · ·is an area that reliability of the product
`23· · · ·working in various conditions is important.
`24· ·Q.· So would these food blender DC motors you're
`
`·1· ·Q.· With regard to these IPR's, have you
`·2· · · ·discussed automotive window lift systems or
`·3· · · ·sunroof systems with anybody except for
`·4· · · ·Webasto's attorneys?
`·5· ·A.· No, I have not.
`·6· ·Q.· Have you ever discussed automotive window
`·7· · · ·lift systems or sunroof systems with any
`·8· · · ·engineers from Webasto?
`·9· ·A.· No, I have not.
`10· ·Q.· What were the typical revolutions per minute
`11· · · ·of an automotive window lift motor when it
`12· · · ·was operating at its fastest closing speed
`13· · · ·in the early 1990s?
`14· ·A.· I do not know.
`15· ·Q.· Okay.· Would the typical closing RPM's be
`16· · · ·different for a sunroof motor in the early
`17· · · ·1990s than a side window lift motor?
`18· ·A.· I'm not certain on that.
`19· ·Q.· In the early 1990s, what was the typical
`20· · · ·horsepower of an automotive window lift
`21· · · ·motor or sunroof motor?
`22· ·A.· I do not know for sure.· I can guess.
`23· ·Q.· Don't want you to guess.
`24· · · · · · ·Prior to signing your expert
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`6/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 21
`·1· · · ·declarations in these IPRs, did you know the
`·2· · · ·details of anti-pinch or anti-trap
`·3· · · ·automotive window sensing and controls that
`·4· · · ·were present in production vehicles prior to
`·5· · · ·April of 1992?
`·6· ·A.· No, I did not.
`·7· ·Q.· How about prior to July of 1994?
`·8· ·A.· I can't recall if I knew.
`·9· ·Q.· How about prior to October of 1996?
`10· ·A.· Again, I can't recall.
`11· ·Q.· How about prior to May of 2000?
`12· ·A.· The same.· I'm not certain.
`13· ·Q.· Have you ever seen any physical automotive
`14· · · ·window lift motor prior to signing your
`15· · · ·expert declarations in these IPRs?
`16· ·A.· Yes, I have seen.
`17· ·Q.· And where did you see that?
`18· ·A.· While I was working on my own car.· So a few
`19· · · ·times I had to replace the switches, the
`20· · · ·control switches that pushes the window up
`21· · · ·and down, so I had to open up the panel and
`22· · · ·that's where I saw the regulators and the
`23· · · ·mechanism.
`24· ·Q.· What year car was that?
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`21–24
`Page 23
`
`·1· ·A.· I don't recall how it was on that car. I
`·2· · · ·don't think it was a pulley or something. I
`·3· · · ·think it was more like mechanical gears
`·4· · · ·engaging the motor to the mechanical
`·5· · · ·structure.
`·6· ·Q.· Was the gears, was it like a worm gear type
`·7· · · ·drive or a sector gear on a lever arm?
`·8· ·A.· I don't recall exactly, but my guess would
`·9· · · ·be it was probably a worm gear type of
`10· · · ·thing.
`11· ·Q.· Was that 2000 Mercedes an express close
`12· · · ·switch where you just hold it for a certain
`13· · · ·period of time and then you can remove your
`14· · · ·finger from the switch and it will continue
`15· · · ·closing?
`16· ·A.· I don't recall it had an express switch.
`17· ·Q.· Do you know if that 2000 Mercedes you worked
`18· · · ·on had an anti-pinch or anti-trap system for
`19· · · ·the control of it?
`20· ·A.· I do not know.
`21· ·Q.· Have you ever seen the control system or
`22· · · ·movement mechanisms of a physical automotive
`23· · · ·sunroof system prior to signing your expert
`24· · · ·declarations in these IPRs?
`
`Page 22
`
`Page 24
`
`·1· ·A.· That was a 2000 Mercedes SUV truck.
`·2· ·Q.· And which door was that, passenger or
`·3· · · ·driver?
`·4· ·A.· It was the driver's side.
`·5· ·Q.· Did you actually look at the internal
`·6· · · ·construction of the motor at the time?
`·7· ·A.· No.· I did not pull it apart.
`·8· ·Q.· Did you -- did you -- let me rephrase the
`·9· · · ·question.· Do you recall the mechanical
`10· · · ·details of that window lift mechanism in
`11· · · ·that 2000 Mercedes?
`12· ·A.· Not really.· I mean, once you had to replace
`13· · · ·also the mechanical mechanism, you know, the
`14· · · ·lift system of the -- the mechanical lift,
`15· · · ·whatever it's called.· Body shops they call
`16· · · ·it regulator, mechanical regulator.
`17· ·Q.· Describe for me that mechanical regulator.
`18· ·A.· It's like a triangle, if you like, hooked up
`19· · · ·to the bottom of the glass and then the
`20· · · ·electrical regulator, let's call it, is
`21· · · ·connected to the other side of it and pushes
`22· · · ·it up and pushes it down.
`23· ·Q.· Is it all done with linkages or cables or
`24· · · ·pulleys?· What kind of details?
`
`·1· ·A.· I can't recall.
`·2· ·Q.· Prior to signing your expert declarations in
`·3· · · ·these IPRs had you seen any electrical
`·4· · · ·diagrams for automotive window lift or
`·5· · · ·sunroof devices or their control systems
`·6· · · ·that were actually used in production
`·7· · · ·vehicles?
`·8· ·A.· I don't recall.· I might have.· I don't
`·9· · · ·remember.
`10· ·Q.· Did you review any when you were preparing
`11· · · ·your expert declarations in these IPRs?
`12· ·A.· Reviewing circuit diagram you mean?
`13· ·Q.· Yes.
`14· ·A.· No, I did not.
`15· ·Q.· Prior to signing your expert declarations in
`16· · · ·these IPRs had you seen any software code,
`17· · · ·charts or diagrams for automotive window
`18· · · ·lift devices or control systems that were
`19· · · ·actually used in production vehicles?
`20· ·A.· No.· I don't recall seeing them.
`21· ·Q.· How about for automotive sunroofs?
`22· ·A.· No, I don't -- I don't recall seeing for
`23· · · ·sunroof as well.
`24· ·Q.· Okay.· Have you ever done any garage door
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`7/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 25
`
`·1· · · ·opener engineering work in your career?
`·2· ·A.· I have installed one.
`·3· ·Q.· Did you?· Okay.
`·4· ·A.· Yes, on my house.· Yes.· I just remembered.
`·5· ·Q.· When did you install it?
`·6· ·A.· When we bought the house, 1987 -- sorry.
`·7· · · ·19 -- well, 1997.
`·8· ·Q.· 1997, is that correct?
`·9· ·A.· Yes, 1997.
`10· ·Q.· Did you actually look at the electrical
`11· · · ·diagram for that garage door opener?
`12· ·A.· I must have because I had to install the
`13· · · ·switches and the wirings.· I had to install
`14· · · ·the whole thing.· Whatever is in the box I
`15· · · ·must have looked at it to be able to install
`16· · · ·it.
`17· ·Q.· When you signed your expert declarations in
`18· · · ·these IPRs, did you review any electrical
`19· · · ·diagrams for garage door openers that were
`20· · · ·in your house or commercial use?
`21· ·A.· No, I have not.· I did not.
`22· ·Q.· Have you ever reviewed the software code for
`23· · · ·garage door openers that were actually used
`24· · · ·either by yourself or in any industrial or
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`25–28
`Page 27
`
`·1· · · ·was our previous house.· In our current
`·2· · · ·house, it has got three buttons, but because
`·3· · · ·I have not used it for long, I have
`·4· · · ·programmed the cars so that you can open up
`·5· · · ·the garage door from inside the car or close
`·6· · · ·it, then I do not recall how it works on the
`·7· · · ·remote control of the garage door opener.
`·8· ·Q.· Let me rephrase the question then.· Prior to
`·9· · · ·April of 1992 have you ever -- are you aware
`10· · · ·of any garage doors where there were
`11· · · ·different buttons for opening and closing?
`12· ·A.· No.· I do not recall.
`13· ·Q.· And then prior to April of 1992 had you ever
`14· · · ·used a garage door opener prior to April of
`15· · · ·1992?
`16· ·A.· Prior to April of 1992, I would say possibly
`17· · · ·not.
`18· ·Q.· Do you consider yourself to be a person of
`19· · · ·ordinary skill in the art of the '802 and
`20· · · ·'612 patents at the present time?
`21· ·A.· No, I do not.· I think I put myself above a
`22· · · ·person of ordinary skill.
`23· ·Q.· Okay.· How about in the early 1990s?· Would
`24· · · ·you have been a person of ordinary skill in
`
`Page 26
`
`Page 28
`
`·1· · · ·residential building?
`·2· ·A.· No, I have not.
`·3· ·Q.· For that garage door opener you installed
`·4· · · ·yourself in 1997 in your house, if the
`·5· · · ·garage door is fully opened and you push the
`·6· · · ·actuation button, what happens?
`·7· ·A.· Let me repeat the question so I make sure I
`·8· · · ·have got your question properly.· If the
`·9· · · ·garage door is fully open and then I'm
`10· · · ·pushing the close button, you expect that
`11· · · ·the door will be closing.
`12· ·Q.· How many buttons do you have on that garage
`13· · · ·door?
`14· ·A.· On that one, I -- I do not recall exactly.
`15· · · ·Either it was two button or three button.
`16· ·Q.· To open and close that garage door, is it
`17· · · ·the same button or different buttons?
`18· ·A.· I'm sorry.· I don't recall whether it was
`19· · · ·the same button or a different button. I
`20· · · ·don't recall.
`21· ·Q.· Have you ever seen a garage door that had
`22· · · ·different opening and closing buttons, or
`23· · · ·are they always the same?
`24· ·A.· I don't remember.· The one that I installed
`
`·1· · · ·the art in the '802 and '612 patents?
`·2· ·A.· What time?
`·3· ·Q.· In the early 1990s.
`·4· ·A.· No.· I would consider myself again above a
`·5· · · ·person of ordinary skill in the art at that
`·6· · · ·time, early 1990s.
`·7· ·Q.· What type of car did you drive in early
`·8· · · ·1992, like January?
`·9· ·A.· January of 1992?· I think I was driving a
`10· · · ·Peugeot 504, a 1976 Peugeot.
`11· ·Q.· Okay.· Did you own any other cars at that
`12· · · ·time in January of 1992?
`13· ·A.· No, I -- no.· That was the only one.
`14· ·Q.· That 1976 Peugeot 504, did it have an
`15· · · ·express up or close feature for the windows?
`16· ·A.· No.· It was all mechanical.
`17· ·Q.· Oh, it was all mechanical?
`18· ·A.· Yes.· It was '76.
`19· ·Q.· Prior to April of 1992 had you ever used an
`20· · · ·automobile window that had the express up or
`21· · · ·close feature?
`22· ·A.· I don't recall.· Yeah.· I don't recall.
`23· ·Q.· Have you ever been in an automobile when
`24· · · ·somebody has their finger trapped in the
`
`
`800.211.DEPO (3376)800.211.DEPO (3376)
`
`EsquireSolutions.comEsquireSolutions.comYVer1f
`
`UUSI, LLC
`Exhibit 2003
`8/57
`
`

`
`
`HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.HAMID A. TOLIYAT, PH.D.
`
`WEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSIWEBASTO ROOF SYSTEMS vs. UUSI
`
`Page 29
`
`·1· · · ·window?
`·2· ·A.· My own kids, they might have.· I don't
`·3· · · ·remember.· Maybe it was a door with somebody
`·4· · · ·pulling up the window, mechanical of course.
`·5· ·Q.· But you don't recall the specific instance?
`·6· ·A.· No.· I do not recall.
`·7· ·Q.· Do you know Dr. Mark Ehsani, E-H-S-A-N-I?
`·8· ·A.· Yes.· He's my colleague, down the hall from
`·9· · · ·me.
`10· ·Q.· Say again?
`11· ·A.· Sorry?
`12· ·Q.· I didn't hear your answer.
`13· ·A.· He's down the hall from me.
`14· ·Q.· And he's a professor at Texas A&M?
`15· ·A.· That's correct.
`16· ·Q.· Do you consider Dr. Mark Ehsani to currently
`17· · · ·be a technical expert in automotive control
`18· · · ·systems?
`19· ·A.· I would not comment on that.
`20· ·Q.· Why not?
`21· ·A.· Because I do not know what his, if he has
`22· · · ·expertise in automotive control system.
`23· · · ·It's just I'm not aware of that one way or
`24· · · ·the other.
`
`December 10, 2014December 10, 2014
`
`29–32
`Page 31
`·1· · · ·technical expert in automotive DC motors?
`·2· ·A.· I don't know.· I know he teaches DC motor.
`·3· ·Q.· Sorry.· What is that?
`·4· ·A.· I know he teaches a course that covers in
`·5· · · ·the syllabus there is a DC motor.
`·6· ·Q.· I thought you said you worked with Dr. Mark
`·7· · · ·Ehsani with regard to automotive DC motors?
`·8· ·A.· Well, I said electric vehicles and hybrid
`·9· · · ·vehicles back in -- let me see.· It was in
`10· · · ·1994 that I worked with him on converting --
`11· · · ·let's see.· Converting a Dodge Neon to a
`12· · · ·hybrid vehicle.
`13· · · · · · ·So what we did was removing -- in
`14· · · ·fact, the reason that he asked me to come
`15· · · ·and work with him, it was because of my
`16· · · ·expertise on electric motors and control.
`17· · · ·So what we did is we removed the engine.· We
`18· · · ·purchased a motorcycle engine so the Neon
`19· · · ·had a 2000 CC engine back then, if I recal