FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`& 9ORA'1'__ON ,
`
`titioner,
`
`.
`
`)asw NA: ON MATfi
`
`H
`
`CORBORAD_ON,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`19R2013—00530
`
`: RE43,563
`
`4908 w ON or ERANCLS HAR
`
`".74, ?0’4, 9:58 A.M.
`
`fiWfiS, CAL_EORN_A
`
`Reported By: Lisa DiGiovanni, RPR, CSR 11969
`CLS Job No. 34579
`
`4'.
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`"*'.X‘1'".*'.GAT..COM - 888.803.3443
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_001
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`6
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`CD\1O‘\U‘|uJ>(Jk)l\)}—‘©kO
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`April 24, 2014
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`& 9ORA'1'__ON ,
`
`titioner,
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`.
`
`)asw NA: ON MATfi
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`H
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`CORBORAD_ON,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`19R2013—00530
`
`: RE43,563
`
`4908 w ON or ERANCLS HAR
`
`".74, ?0’4, 9:58 A.M.
`
`fiWfiS, CAL_EORN_A
`
`Reported By: Lisa DiGiovanni, RPR, CSR 11969
`CLS Job No. 34579
`
`4'.
`
`"*'.X‘1'".*'.GAT..COM - 888.803.3443
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_001
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`6
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`7
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`CD\1O‘\U‘|uJ>(Jk)l\)}—‘©kO
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`20
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`FRANCES HARDER
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`April 24, 2014
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`2
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`titioner,
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`'
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`CORBORAL_ON,
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`Patent Owner.
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`9R2013—00530
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`: RE43,563
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`Videotaped Deposition o" FRANC?S HA&)%{,
`
`taken on
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`behal” o" the Patent Owner, Destination Maternity
`
`Corporation, betore Lisa 7iGioVanni, R3{, Cert“ied
`
`Shorthand Reporter No. 11969,
`
`for the S-aLe o_
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`6
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`7
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`CO
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`b>boR>i~'c>to
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`;7
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`California, commencing at 9:58 a.m., Thirsday,
`
`L8 Apri; 24, 2014, at 2000 Avenue of the S-ars,
`
`;9
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`Suite 400, Los Angeles, California.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_002
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`&ANC% OP COUNS
`
`BAELND OWNfl_:
`
`IPA P 941
`
`BY:
`
`STJART H. BOLLACK
`
`A-u0rney at Law
`1251 Avenue of
`-ne Americas
`
`New Yor<, New Yor< Q0020
`212.335.4964
`
`s:uart.pollack@dlapiper.Com
`IVA B 9fi_
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`3Y:
`
`M C{AAL P. %URNS _V
`
`A--orney at Law
`
`One Liberty Place
`1650 Marke- Stree-
`
`Suite 4900
`
`Philadelphia, Pennsylvania l9l03
`215.656.2443
`
`michael.burns@dlapiper.com
`
`For Peti
`
`ioner:
`
`5A%GRfi %AKfiR
`
`»AN 418
`
`3Y:
`
`IAN 4% M. W4C L1 ”'
`
`Attorney at Law
`300 N. _eridian Street
`
`Suite 2700
`
`"nd’anapQl’s, "ndiana 46204
`317.237.0300
`
`dan’e1.1ech1eiter@‘aegrebd.com
`
`%SfiND:
`
`John Azpilicueta, Videographer
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`1
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`2 3
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`CENTEXTLEGALSERVKEB
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_003
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`ixaminationi
`
`1 2 3
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`4 Wr. Pollack
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`Patent Owner's
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`ixhibit 1
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`?atent US &:43,b3l 3
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`'
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`'
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`i
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`_
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`?e1'y Covering Garment
`Target Corporation IX 1018
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`9ec'aration of Frances
`
`{arder
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`Target Corpora"on H
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`'011
`
`3—page catalog
`Target Corporat’on 3
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`'00?
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`Patent US 6,2/6,1/3
`
`Seamless Torso Contro 'ing Garment
`and Method of Making Same
`Target Corporat’on ax ’004
`
`Lauren Sara catalog
`
`Target Corporat’on ax ’005
`
`The New York Times art’
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`-1
`PULSE: An ?ar’y Lesson '
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`Target Corporat’on «
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`?a-en- US 6,669,064 32
`
`%o1d‘1g Nurser
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`A
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`’
`
`'-
`
`L
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`ten- US 5,034,999
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`‘fig Qib
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`_
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`t US 7,089,597 32
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`for the Upper Ha1
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`CENTEXTLEGALSERVKEB
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`DMC Exhibit 2018_004
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`
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`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`Patent Owner's
`
`Exhibit 10
`
`Curriculum Vitae O:
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`Erahces Harder
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`Target Cerpora:’oh EX '
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`Exhibit 11
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`?ateh: US 2004/0049834
`I‘
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`Sarge‘
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`: C©rpOra:’Oh E
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`’
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`Exhibit 12
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`Corrected Peti:’oh ‘
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`Inter Eartes Review
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`1 2
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`3
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`4
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`5
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`7
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`aJ>UL)l\)|—‘C>KD@)
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`O‘\L)'|
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`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_005
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`Thursday, April 24, 20;
`
`Los Angeles, Ca"
`
`09:58:03
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`W5&%
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`W5&U
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`W5&5
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`W5&B
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`W5&B
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`THfi V v%OGRAEH:R: Good morning. Here begi
`
`Media No.
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`l, Volume I,
`
`to the videotaped deposf
`
`of Frances Harder in the matter of Target
`
`Corporation vs. Destination Maternity Corporation.
`
`This case is in the U.S. Patent and Trademark O
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`lC€
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`W5&%
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`before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board with Case
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`W5&% L
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`NO. "PR70'3-00530.
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`W5&M ;
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`Today's date is April 24th, 2014.
`
`The time
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`W6&% ;
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`is 9:58 a.m. This deposition is taking place at
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`W5&M ;
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`2000 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 400, North Tower,
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`W5&% ;
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`Los Angeies, California 90067.
`
`The videographer is
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`W5&fl
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`;
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`John A_p’l’cueta appearing on behal
`--1
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`o Centext
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`W5&% ’
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`Regal Services located in nncino, California.
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`W6&W ;
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`Will counsel please identify yourselves and
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`W59m ;
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`state whom you represent.
`
`(B59012-
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`MR. POlJJKH<: S-uar;.i . Pollack,
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`ZHJX Piper, LL}
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`W59%
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`W59”
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`W590
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`W59M
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`@599
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`W59”
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`U.S., on behalf of the Vestination Maternity paten‘
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`owner,
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`joined here from Michael Burns representing
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`the same parties, a'so from the same
`
`‘rm.
`
`MR. L%CHT% T%R: And 7anie' Lechle’ter for
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`Faegre ?a<er “aniels representing petitioner, Target
`
`Corporation.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_006
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`W59”
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`W59fl
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`@593
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`1
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`2
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`3
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`” % V '%OGRABH:R:
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`Thank you.
`
`Today's reporter is Lisa Giovanni
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`[sic]
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`with Centext Legal Services.
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`W59% 4
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`May the court reporter please swear in the
`
`%BOS T ON OEE
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`%R:
`
`Please raise your right
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`to be sworn.
`
`[FRANCES HARIfiR,
`
`a Witness herein, having been first duly sworn by
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`the Certified Shorthand Reporter, was examined and
`
`testified as follows:]
`
`rfiBOS T ON ORE C%R:
`
`You do solemnly state that
`
`the evidence you will give in this matter will be
`
`the truth,
`
`the whole truth, and nothing but
`
`the
`
`truth,
`
`so help you God.
`
`MS. HARJLR:
`
`__ do.
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`vfiBOS T ON
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`" C%R:
`
`Thank you.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`5 6
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`7
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`9
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`;O
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`l
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`20
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`2l
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`095925
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`W59% 23
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`W69w 24
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`W59” 25
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`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Good morning, Ms. Harder.
`
`Good morning.
`
`To start the deposition, if you could just
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_007
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
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`W59“
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`09944
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`09$44
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`W59M
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`W59“
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`W593
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`@595
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`W595
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`09:59:56
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`state your name and your current job position
`
`the record.
`
`A.
`
`My name is Frances Harder, and I am the
`
`founder/president o: Fashion Qusiness,
`
`Incorporated.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And " believe you've been deposed
`
`fore;
`
`is that correct?
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay.
`
`How many times have you been deposed
`
`A.
`
`O.
`
`fgre?
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`W69? ;
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`A.
`
`Over the last eight to lO years, probably
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`WDQW ;
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`around about six times.
`
`I —— you know,
`
`that's an
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`WDOM-i
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`approximation.
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`W0&% ;
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`Q.
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`Were —— were all of those times as an
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`WQQW ;
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`10:00:13
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`:_
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`W008 ;
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`WDGM ;
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`icness or were only some o:
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`them as an
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`-'_ vness?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`They were all as expert witness.
`
`Okay. What —— do you recall what
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`the six
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`WDOW ;
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`cases were?
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`NDQR ;
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`A.
`
`For the most part,
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`they were copyright
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`WDQN
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`W003
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`W00M-
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`W003
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`N00”
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`10:00:40
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`'
`
`fringements.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`O.
`
`What kind of copyrights?
`
`Prints, graphics.
`
`Were those prints and graphics ‘or clothing
`
`for something else?
`
`A.
`
`Clothing.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_008
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`WDGQ
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`W00%
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`W00“
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`W00”
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`Wflfifl
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`W005
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`WDOW
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`Wfl0W
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`worm
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`1&m01Z_
`
`Q.
`
`I assume you remember the rules o:
`
`deposition?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Maybe you could repeat them.
`
`Okay.
`
`You need to answer audibly because
`
`the reporter is taking down your answers as a
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`written record.
`
`Is that okay?
`
`A.
`
`Correct. Okay.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`is there any —— you understand you're under
`
`Correct.
`
`WDLM ;
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`Q.
`
`Okay. And is there any reason that you
`
`mDL% ;
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`would have any di””icu1ty giving your best testimony
`
`1&mm9j_
`
`today?
`
`mfltw ;
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`WDLB ;
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`wflkfl
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`;
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`None at the moment.
`
`Okay. Good.
`
`MR. POLLACK: Let's begin, if you could pass me
`
`WDLM ;
`
`the '53l patent.
`
`I'm going to mark as Harder
`
`WDLB '
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`Weposition Exhibit 1, U.S. Patent Reissue 43,531
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`NDLB ;
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`issued July 24th, 2012.
`
`Wflkfl
`
`10m54
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`WOZW
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`WDZW
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`W0ZM-
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`WQZW
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`(Patent Owner's Exhibit
`
`1 was marked
`
`for identification and attached hereto.)
`
`THfi W TN%SS:
`
`Thank you.
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`I assume you've reviewed
`
`this patent in detail?
`
`A.
`
`: have reviewed it.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_009
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`WDZW 1
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Abou'
`
`how long did you spend
`
`NDZW 2
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`reviewing this paten .
`
`Nfllfl
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`WDZR
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`WDZB
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`Wfllfi
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`3
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`4
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`5
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`6
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`.A. Well, given that :'m not an attorney,
`
`definitely read through it.
`
`How much I retained as
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`far as the legalese is to be questioned.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`You understand that this is the
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`WDZW 7
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`patent that's —— one of the two paients Lha
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`W023
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`8
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`involved in the procedures that this deposi
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`WDZW 9
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`called for?
`
`Wfllfl
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`;O
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`W01”
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`1
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay.
`
`Can you turn to Column 5 of the
`
`mfllfi
`
`;2
`
`patent?
`
`It's page l3.
`
`Do you see that there are
`
`WOZ% ;3
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`claims there?
`
`10:02:56
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`:_4
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`10:02:57
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`:_5
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`worm ;6
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`WDZW ;7
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`lumoljg
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`mflim ;9
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`moiw 20
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`.
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`.
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`.
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`.
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`Uh—huh.
`
`"Yes"?
`
`. Did you review the claims?
`
`Okay.
`
`How long did you spend reviewing the
`
`wfliw 21
`
`A.
`
`It's hard to give it a number.
`
`I have
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`WDKH 22
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`reviewed them, and I can't give you a de inite time.
`
`Wflim 23
`
`I mean,
`
`I have reviewed them.
`
`mflim 24
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`Wfllfl 25
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`"s it hours? Minutes?
`
`I have reviewed —— reviewed them at
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
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`10
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_010
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`1&%24
`
`mfllfl
`
`Nflifi
`
`l
`
`7
`
`3
`
`’
`
`’
`
`: stages,
`
`so I would review them when
`
`rained --
`
`.
`
`Okay.
`
`m0&% 4
`
`A.
`
`—— and during conversations. And to give
`
`Wflifi
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`wfiifi
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`mflifl
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`Wflifl
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`5
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`6
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`7
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`8
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`you an estimate of time, it's hard to say.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay. When were you first retained?
`
`"
`
`th’nk that was last year in —— around
`
`about August last year. Must have been earlier,
`
`mfliw 9
`
`actually.
`
`To give you the exact date,
`
`I --
`
`10:03:50
`
`:_o
`
`wflifi ;l
`
`O.
`
`.A.
`
`Okay.
`
`Unless you've got the document
`
`in front o.
`
`mD$% ;2
`
`you,
`
`I have —— I don't have —— I can't remember.
`
`Wflifl
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`;3
`
`Q. Well, ‘‘ " represent to you that you signed
`
`mfliw ;4
`
`your declaration in August 20l3, kind of --
`
`10I04I02
`
`2-5
`
`WDAM ;6
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`1&Mfi4
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`;7
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Uh-huh .
`
`—— kind of give you an estimate of when.
`
`Okay.
`
`So it WOJld probably have been,
`
`WDAW ;8
`
`would think, around about May o‘ "3.
`
`mfl¢W ;9
`
`O.
`
`About how many times did you review the
`
`WDAM 20
`
`patent between May of 20l3 and August of 20l3?
`
`NOAH 21
`
`A.
`
`I can't give you a definite number o:
`
`times
`
`W0¢m 22
`
`: reviewed it.
`
`: mean,
`
`there are certain portions
`
`NOAH-23
`
`that I
`
`looked at and —— or I was directed to look at
`
`mD¢N 24
`
`when we were having our discussions on the —— about
`
`NOAH 25
`
`the patent.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`11
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_011
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`WD¢fl
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`W0¢%
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`W0¢fi
`
`WDAW
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`W04”
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`WDAM
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`NOAH
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`
`Q.
`
`When you say "directed to look at," that
`
`was by your attorneys?
`
`A, Weil, not directed.
`
`It was just a part OT
`
`the discussions. There was no o”"’cia1 direction.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. But it was discussions with your
`
`attorneys?
`
`A4
`
`Yes, diSCJSSiODS.
`
`Q. Which portions were those that you were
`
`directed to look at?
`
`wD¢% ;
`
`A4 Well, mos: —— mos: portions, really.
`
`WD¢% ;
`
`a really overall View o:
`
`WDAB ;
`
`1&M64 i
`
`mfl¢% ;
`
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`
`10%05Z-
`
`mDi% ;
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`Okay.
`
`"ncluding the claims?
`
`Including claf
`
`Okay. Let's take a look at Claim l on page
`
`Correct.
`
`Do you see the last paragraph around line
`
`W038 i
`
`.
`
`Do you see where "'m re‘erring to in Claim l?
`
`W059 ;
`
`Wflifl
`
`W053
`
`W05”
`
`Wflim
`
`W053
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`1&%32
`
`.
`
`.
`
`In the second column?
`
`In Column 5,
`
`the first column.
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`I don't see where 30 is.
`
`fi'm just looking at the one --
`
`Q.
`
`Oh,
`
`:'m sorry. There are —— there are line
`
`numbers --
`
`A_
`
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`12
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_012
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`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`W053
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`.
`
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`—— in the middle of the page.
`
`Right_
`
`Q.
`
`And " you look at Column 5, do you see
`
`around where "ne 30 is?
`
`A.
`
`Column 5?
`
`Is it —— are you —— is this
`
`one? Are you looking at the —— telling me direo
`
`to look at --
`
`Q.
`
`2%.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
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`
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`
`"'m ’ook‘ng at Claim l.
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`3 you could look at the --
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`I'm looking at Claim l.
`
`Okay. Very good.
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`Right .
`
`"‘ you could look at the last
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`
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`Okay.
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`So then...
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`the claims are.
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`Okay. All right.
`
`I'm looking at Claim l,
`
`but
`
`then : saw Claim 8. But anyway, okay.
`
`So
`
`Claim l.
`
`Q.
`
`Claim l is the one that has the --
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`DMC Exhibit 2018_013
`
`
`
`moan
`
`Wflfim
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`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`.
`
`_
`
`.
`
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`.
`
`.
`
`—— bold No.
`
`l at the beginning o:
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`
`And it ends just before the bold No. 2.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`:'m looking at Claim l. And then it's up
`
`:'m not sure where :'m looking, actually.
`
`Okay.
`
`is this your first time looking at
`
`I've looked at claims, but i've never had
`
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`so I'm not quite
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`
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`A.
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`Okay. Yes.
`
`A claim is a numbered sentence.
`
`A.
`
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`
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`
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`
`Right.
`
`Iaim 1 is the first numbered sentence.
`
`Right.
`
`And it goes from about line 20 to line 35.
`
`Do you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Yes. But, you know,
`
`like, it's coming here
`
`Claim 1, Claim —— all the way down to 55, so...
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Sure.
`
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`14
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_014
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`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`m0T%
`
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`
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`
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`
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`Sorry.
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`Sorry.
`
`"‘ you look,
`
`there's a —— in Column 5 --
`
`yup_
`
`—— do you see there's a language that says,
`
`"What is claimed is"?
`
`A.
`
`Yes.
`
`"What is claimed is." At
`
`the top are
`
`we looking?
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`Just about a third of the way down.
`
`"What is claimed is." Got it.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you see under that,
`
`there's a
`
`number one?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes .
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you understand that that's what's
`
`MOTH ;
`
`called Claim —— Claim l?
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`10:07:33
`
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`mflfw ;
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`
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`
`A.
`
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`
`Okay. Very good.
`
`Okay.
`
`Sorry.
`
`No problem.
`
`All right. Let's keep reading in —— in
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`DMC Exhibit 2018_015
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`N0?”
`
`Wfllfl
`
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`
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`that section.
`
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`
`portion having a second torso encircling
`
`circumference de“ning an upper edge of the belly
`
`panel that encircles a wearer's torso just beneath
`
`the wearer's breast area..."
`
`Do you see where I'm reading?
`
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`
`Okay.
`
`'
`
`read that correctly?
`
`Yes .
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`wD&m ;
`
`Q. What's your understanding of the word
`
`wD&M ;
`
`"breast area"?
`
`mD&B ;
`
`w0&W ;
`
`_.
`
`.%CHL% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`” E
`
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`
`3reast area is —— can be de"
`
`m0&B ;
`
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`
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`
`m0&% ;
`
`10:08:26
`
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`
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`
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`
`.
`
`_3Y M&. BOLLACK: Uh-huh.
`
`You have people who have larger breasts and
`
`mD&% L
`
`smaller breasts, shorter waists.
`
`Some of them tend
`
`mD&B ;
`
`to be bigger around their c’rcum‘erence.
`
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`
`W0&%
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`
`W0&%
`
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`
`breast area could be anywhere within what you would
`
`consider —— what a normal person would be considered
`
`as a breast area.
`
`So it's hard to define depending
`
`on the person. Everybody's di””erent.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`It depends on someone's size?
`
`Sizing.
`
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`16
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_016
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`W0&%
`
`W0&W
`
`W0&fl
`
`10:08:53
`
`10%54
`
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`
`10:08:59
`
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`
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`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And that's something that's
`
`understood in the fashion industry?
`
`A.
`
`Q,
`
`Sizing? Sizing is, of course.
`
`yes _
`
`It's understood that the breast areas on
`
`' ”erent people are —— are di
`
`”erent?
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`yes _
`
`Okay. Qefore you were involved in this
`
`case, what was your understanding of where the
`
`wD9% ;
`
`breast area is —— is located on a person?
`
`WDQW ;
`
`Al Well,
`
`the breast area Could —— could,
`
`in
`
`W098 ;
`
`theory,
`
`talk about
`
`the bra,
`
`talk about
`
`the actual
`
`W09% ;
`
`breast.
`
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`
`WQQN ;
`
`in —— in what context we're talking about. Or i
`
`W093 L
`
`could be area —— it could be, what is the area?
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`
`mean, what is the area of L.A.? You're talking
`
`W093 L
`
`about miles or are you talking about 5 —— 5 feet?
`
`10:09:32
`
`;_
`
`W098 ;
`
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`
`A.
`
`sure _
`
`So it depends on what you define as what
`
`W09%
`
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`
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`
`W09“
`
`W09“
`
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`
`the area is. Every —— every —— every definition of
`
`area could —— could be di””erent.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure.
`
`Sure.
`
`But when you're working with clothing to
`
`cover the breast area, what's your understanding of
`
`breast area in that context?
`
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`17
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_017
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
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`April 24, 2014
`
`.
`
`_
`
`.
`
`To cover the breast area?
`
`yes _
`
`Then I would think we're talking about a
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Are there other definitions of --
`
`ll, what do you mean by "bra" when you said we're
`
`lking about
`
`the bra?
`
`A, Well,
`
`the bra is holding the actual breast
`
`:
`
`the woman. And that would be considered, as you
`
`WD9%
`
`10:09:52
`
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`
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`
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`
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`
`wfl&® ;
`
`were talking about, something covering the breast
`
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`
`area.
`
`WJQB ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Hate to ask you to do this, but
`
`WJQN ;
`
`you're the only woman here. Could you give us,
`
`just
`
`W103 ;
`
`sort of drawing on your —— on your chest for the
`
`W105 ;
`
`camera, about where the breast area would be in --
`
`WJQB ;
`
`Au Well, we've all got breasts.
`
`10:10:28
`
`I.
`
`W103 ;
`
`Q .
`
`A.
`
`Sure .
`
`You've got breasts,
`
`too.
`
`mfl&w ;
`
`MR. L%CHL+ T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`W10”
`
`W10”
`
`W10“
`
`W105
`
`W10”
`
`W10”
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`3Y Mk. BOLLACK:
`
`Sure.
`
`So : —— : don't feel comfortab e do’ng
`
`that.
`
`I
`
`think that if you wanted to define ‘t, you
`
`could define the breast as being across your own
`
`chest, and that's where the breast part is.
`
`I mean,
`
`you've got a nipple. Everybody's got a nipple.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`18
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_018
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`1gm39
`
`W10“
`
`IQNAZ
`
`Wflfifl
`
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`
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`
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`
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`
`_
`
`.
`
`_
`
`sure_
`
`That's your breast area.
`
`sure_
`
`On a woman, can you show us,
`
`in your
`
`understanding, wiere the breast area is.
`
`A, Well,
`
`the breast area would be --
`
`M_. L%CHL+ Tfikz Objection.
`
`Tlfi W TNfiSS:
`
`—— where the breast is. That's
`
`Wfl0W
`
`quite clear.
`
`: don't think " ‘eel comfortable
`
`W103 L
`
`having to de"ne my own body. Maybe you've got a
`
`mfl&% ;
`
`model you oou'd bring in or a ‘orm.
`
`WflO% L
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay.
`
`So a form is
`
`WJLW ;
`
`something you would use to understand where the
`
`mfltm ;
`
`breast area is?
`
`WJLW ;
`
`A.
`
`"‘ you were working in a studio or —— and
`
`WflL% ;
`
`you were making clothing, you would have a dress
`
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`
`IQHJO ;
`
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`
`Q
`
`A.
`
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`
`A
`
`—— that usually you use
`
`”iLLing.
`
`Qkay_
`
`And it's usually —— we call it a standard
`
`It could be a Size 6. And then you use that
`
`to do the fitting. However, as you pointed out
`
`earlier, everybody is di””erent.
`
`Q_
`
`Right_
`
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`888.803.3443
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`19
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_019
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`Wflkfi
`
`Wflkfl
`
`Wflkfl
`
`10U34
`
`Wflk%
`
`Wit”
`
`A.
`
`So they would have to then consider
`
`di ”erent sizes and, you know,
`
`is this going to fit
`
`somebody with di””erent characteristics than, say,
`
`on the form?
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`for —— for this case, have you I
`
`into how the term "a breast area" is defined i
`
`WJLW
`
`in the fashion art?
`
`WJLW
`
`Wflkfi
`
`mfltfi
`
`10:11:55
`
`mflkfl
`
`;
`
`:_
`
`;
`
`A.
`
`When : read and obviously when you take it
`
`into context o:
`
`the way it's written,
`
`they're
`
`talking about
`
`the breast area.
`
`Uh—huh_
`
`A.
`
`I —— I had an idea o: what
`
`they were
`
`WJZW i
`
`talking about.
`
`mfllm ;
`
`.
`
`What was that idea?
`
`wfllw ;
`
`wflZ% ;
`
`NJZW ;
`
`. Well, it's really the upper abdomen, so...
`
`. Where do you get that from?
`
`. Well,
`
`I would say that, assuming it's not
`
`WJZH ;
`
`intended to go over the breast --
`
`10:12:11
`
`:_
`
`Uh—huh_
`
`Wfllm
`
`Wfllm
`
`W11”
`
`10:12:21
`
`Wfllfl
`
`10924
`
`A.
`
`—— and : haven't seen any evidence oi
`
`that —— then it would be "'nishing on the upper
`
`abdomen, depending on, obviously,
`
`the size of the
`
`persQp__
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Bu‘ what's your basis “or that?
`
`Where in the paten* does it indicate tha‘.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
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`20
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_020
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`WflZ%
`
`W113
`
`1&m29
`
`W11”
`
`W123
`
`WflZ%
`
`10:12:37
`
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`
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`
`W12“ ;
`
`A, Well, it says —— on some of them,
`
`they talk
`
`about
`
`the breast area.
`
`So maybe --
`
`Q_
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Right_
`
`—— you can show me documents.
`
`Have you looked at any art —— do you know
`
`what prior art is?
`
`A.
`
`Yes .
`
`.
`
`.
`
`Okay.
`
`lave you looked at any prior art
`
`fines —— that uses the term "breast area"?
`
`I
`
`think there was some other patents in
`
`mflZ% ;
`
`there that did discuss breast areas.
`
`mfllfl
`
`wfllfl
`
`mfllfl
`
`;
`
`;
`
`;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And what —— what did those patents
`
`indicate?
`
`A.
`
`You know,
`
`I can't tell you o
`
`_he --
`
`WJZW ;
`
`verbatim, but
`
`they had similar wording in defining
`
`wfllw ;
`
`where the —— where the breast area was,
`
`the upper
`
`10:13:02
`
`10:13:02
`
`:_
`
`:_
`
`1&B©4Z_
`
`Wfl1W
`
`Wfliw
`
`Wfllm
`
`10:13:14
`
`Wflim
`
`Wfllm
`
`part Of ——
`
`Q _
`
`A.
`
`Uh—huh _
`
`—— the tubular or the piece that's going on
`
`top o:
`
`the pants.
`
`Q.
`
`What patents are you re‘err’
`
`Those —— those patents cited on the
`
`patent?
`
`A. We're talking about the patent that
`
`people applied ‘or in the di“erent cases.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`21
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_021
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`N11”
`
`Wfllfl
`
`10824
`
`Wflifl
`
`W113
`
`10830
`
`1&B31
`
`W113
`
`N113
`
`10:13:41
`
`:_
`
`WJKM L
`
`.
`
`Whose patents were they?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think you have the documents there.
`
`You
`
`can probably pull them up and we can look at them.
`
`Q.
`
`You are referring to the prior art you
`
`fer to in your declaration?
`
`_A.
`
`Q_
`
`Right.
`
`Okay_
`
`MR. POLLACK: Why don't we take a —— can we have
`
`her declaration? Thanks.
`
`Ready?
`
`I%POS T ON OEE C%R:
`
`Uh—huh.
`
`mflifl
`
`;
`
`MR. POLLACK:
`
`:'m going to mark as Harder
`
`W113 '
`
`Veposition Exhibit 2 the first Veclaration o:
`
`mfliw ;
`
`Frances Harder.
`
`It's also referred to as
`
`Wfl¢m ’
`
`ixhibit 1011 in the IPR proceeding.
`
`W118 ;
`
`W118 ;
`
`(Patent Owner's Exhibit
`
`2 was marked
`
`for iden-ificaLion and attached hereto.
`
`WJAB L
`
`JLPOS 1 ON O£EiCjR:
`
`Thank you.
`
`10114115
`
`I-
`
`Q.
`
`_3Y MR. BOLLACK:
`
`IS this -- is
`
`W119
`
`W113
`
`W1¢B
`
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`
`W11”
`
`Wfl1M-
`
`declara:ion you were referring to —— or‘
`
`documents you were referring to?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`This is my f’rst declaration.
`
`Okay. Using your first declaration, can
`
`you let me know wh‘ch r
`
`r nc s h lp d you
`
`unders:and what
`
`the word "breast area" means?
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`22
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_022
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`540%
`
`51¢“
`
`5115
`
`5115
`
`5145
`
`Wfliw
`
`513%
`
`10:15:06
`
`Wfliw
`
`515% ;
`
`5150 ;
`
`..
`
`.%CHL% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`31% W TN%SS:
`
`: think that would be hard for me
`
`to "1d among all the documents as to now : came to
`
`that conclusion. Reading many documents. And I --
`
`I assumed that —— maybe that the breast area can --
`
`well, not —— not really assumed.
`
`:
`
`think the breas
`
`area can encompass many di ”erent parts on di
`
`”eren'
`
`peQp]_e _
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay. Well, what
`
`—— what does it mean in —— in —— which parts
`
`refer to in the patent, Harder Deposition
`
`10:15:17
`
`'
`
`'
`
`‘I?
`
`W135 ;
`
`A. Well,
`
`i
`
`think that most of them,
`
`they were
`
`5115 ;
`
`talking about
`
`the upper portion o_ the _ubular panel
`
`515% L
`
`ending above the abdomen near the breast area. But
`
`10:15:29
`
`:_
`
`d_QeSp_‘t ——
`
`1gw29j_
`
`515% L
`
`Q_
`
`A.
`
`sure_
`
`—— define how many inches below or above or
`
`511% ;
`
`where exactly it sits because obviously it's going
`
`545%
`
`545“
`
`10538
`
`515”
`
`10541
`
`10544
`
`to be ditterent on everybody.
`
`Q.
`
`Sure.
`
`Sure.
`
`:
`
`think you said near the breas
`
`what
`
`:'m —— what
`
`:'m trying to figure ou'
`
`where does the —— the panel end, but wha'
`
`breast area?
`
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`DMC Exhibit 2018_023
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`W155
`
`10546
`
`WJEW
`
`N15“
`
`W153
`
`Wfl5%
`
`N15”
`
`Wflfim
`
`Wflfifi
`
`MR. L
`
`1 ”%R: Objection.
`
`Form. Asked and
`
`answered.
`
`T44 W TN%SS:
`
`"
`
`th‘nk we discussed what
`
`the
`
`breast area is, depending on what kind o: clothing
`
`you're talking about or what kind o: application
`
`you're using it “or, whether it's d rect y over the
`
`breast, which normally would be what you were
`
`talking about.
`
`it would be over the breast.
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Normally, breast area
`
`wfl&% ;
`
`would refer to over the breast?
`
`wfl&W ;
`
`1&mo8;_
`
`Wflfiw L
`
`.
`
`,
`
`.
`
`Over the breast.
`
`okay,
`
`So that's what :
`
`iine normally as
`
`W168 ;
`
`being the breast area.
`
`wfl&B ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`: just wanted to take a look through
`
`wfl&M-;
`
`your declaration.
`
`You refer in there to something
`
`W163 ;
`
`called —— let me step back a second.
`
`W163 ;
`
`i'm correct in —— in this declaration, you
`
`mflfifl-;
`
`don't give any de‘init’on o: breast area?
`
`Wfl€%
`
`W16”
`
`W16“
`
`10m42
`
`W163
`
`W45“
`
`.
`
`.
`
`_
`
`.
`
`.
`
`: don't recall whether I did or not.
`
`Okay.
`
`I'll r pr s nt
`
`r pr s nt to you
`
`I didn't see one.
`
`okay_
`
`Do you know why that is?
`
`I didn't think it was necessary.
`
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`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_024
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`N16”
`
`asked to define that.
`
`Wflfiw
`
`M163
`
`mfldfi
`
`Wfléfl
`
`WflTW
`
`Wfllfl
`
`IOWJZ
`
`WflTM
`
`10:17:16
`
`Z-
`
`WJTW ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Were you asked at any time to de:
`
`the term "breast area"?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`NO_
`
`Turn to page lO of your declaration.
`
`You
`
`fer there to a piece of prior art called JCP— .
`
`Do you see that?
`
`On l9?
`
`Yes. Yes,
`
`in paragraph 19.
`
`Okay. Uh-huh.
`
`Okay. Was
`
`JCP—3 a prior art reference that
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A
`
`Q.
`
`WJTH ;
`
`helped you —— that defined the word "breast area"?
`
`WJTE ;
`
`A.
`
`: —— unless i see the document,
`
`: can't
`
`mflfm ;
`
`tell you whether ‘t d’d or not.
`
`I know this --
`
`wflffl
`
`wflffi
`
`;
`
`;
`
`know which pair of pants these are —— jeans are.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`You don't recall if that document
`
`WJTW ;
`
`had the term "breast area"?
`
`1&n38j_
`
`mflffi
`
`;
`
`AJ
`
`Q.
`
`No_
`
`All right. My trusty assistant will get
`
`10W44
`
`that document for us.
`
`Wfl&W
`
`10W04
`
`Wfl&U
`
`mfl&N
`
`Wfl&%
`
`MR. POLLACK:
`
`I'm going to mark as Harder
`
`Deposition ?xhib’t 3 a —— an excerpt
`
`from a
`
`J.C. Penney ca" log.
`
`it's also referred to as
`
`ixhibit 1007 in the ZPR proceeding.
`
`(Paten: Owner's Exhibit 3 was marked
`
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`25
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_025
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`Wfl&N
`
`W183
`
`mfl&%
`
`Wfl&M
`
`19W34
`
`Wfl&%
`
`Wfl&%
`
`10%%0
`
`10w%4
`
`for identification and attached hereto.)
`
`” fi W DN%SS:
`
`Thank you.
`
`fi_
`
`2 ON OEE Cfikz You're welcome.
`
`.
`
`jY MR. BOLLACK: My first question is --
`
`is, Harder Deposition Exhibit 3,
`
`is that the
`
`document referred to in paragraph 19?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`:
`
`think JCP—3, as you use that term,
`
`tha'
`
`fers to what's shown on page 19 o_ that documen'.
`
`mfl&% ;
`
`A.
`
`Page 19; correct.
`
`108542-
`
`Q. Which, actually,
`
`in this version o; it,
`
`mfl&% ;
`
`it's the third —— third page of the exhibit;
`
`wfl&w ;
`
`correct?
`
`mfl&% ;
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`wfl9% ;
`
`1&W04Z_
`
`W190 ;
`
`.
`
`,
`
`Okay.
`
`Is there anything on —— on page 19
`
`fines the term "breast area"?
`
`No,
`
`wfl9N ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Let me also look at —— i: we turn
`
`mfl9% ;
`
`back one page in this excerpt,
`
`in larder Deposition
`
`Wfl9fl
`
`10934
`
`W19“
`
`W200
`
`W205
`
`m2&x>
`
`?xh bit 3,
`
`I
`
`thin< you refer to this page in your
`
`laration as JC?—A;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me find it.
`
`"f you look on page 12,
`
`for example,
`
`paragraph 22.
`
`A_
`
`Okay_
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`26
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_026
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`N20“
`
`W203
`
`W20%
`
`10:20:4O
`
`W20“
`
`W20“
`
`WQOW
`
`W20“
`
`W205
`
`Q.
`
`Am I correct that this page, which is
`
`referred to as either page l5 because it says,
`
`"Page
`
`l5," in the green —— in the white text and green --
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`Right _
`
`—— or page 2 at the bottom of the page,
`
`is
`
`that what's referred to as JCP—A?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay.
`
`is there anything on JCP—A that
`
`fines the term "breast area"?
`
`w2&% ;
`
`WQLH ;
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No, not here.
`
`Okay.
`
`"f we look back at your declarati
`
`wflkm ;
`
`page l2 again, you refer to another reference ca;
`
`WJLB ;
`
`3rowder in paragraph 22.
`
`mfltw ;
`
`wflkw ;
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Browder, okay.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know, did —— did Browder
`
`WQLM ;
`
`provide a de 1ni,ion for breast area that --
`
`mflkfi
`
`;
`
`you relied on?
`
`m2L% ;
`
`A,
`
`: can't recall.
`
`mfltfl
`
`;
`
`MR.
`
`fiCHR% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Wflkfi
`
`Wit“
`
`Wfltfl
`
`1&m46
`
`W2k%
`
`Wit“
`
`Q.
`
`jY Mk. BOLLACK: Would you need to see
`
`3rowder to --
`
`A.
`
`Q_
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay_
`
`MR. POLLACK:
`
`I'm going to mark as Harder
`
`Deposition Exhibit 4,
`
`this is U.S. Patent No.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`
`27
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_027
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`10300
`
`10333304
`
`6,276,l75.
`
`It's a patent to George 3rowder eati
`
`"S*'.AMT.*'.SS 'l'ORSO CONTROLLING GARM.L'N'l' AN I M*'.'l'HO ' O:'
`
`10:22:08
`
`MAKING SAME . "
`
`W21“
`
`N22”
`
`W229
`
`W229
`
`W215
`
`(Patent Owner's Exhibit
`
`4 was marked
`
`for identification and attached hereto.)
`
`” % W DN%SS:
`
`Thank you.
`
`£908 3 ON OEE C%R: You're welcome.
`
`R. POLLACK: This exhibit is also known as
`
`W2Z%
`
`Exhibit 1004 in the _9R proceeding.
`
`wfllw ;
`
`Q.
`
`Is this the 3rowder patent that you re:
`
`WQZM-i
`
`to in your declaration?
`
`W21“ L
`
`WJZW ;
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Looki
`
`Browder patent now,
`
`is
`
`mflln ;
`
`there any —— is there anything in the Browder patent
`
`W21“ L
`
`tha_ defines -he -erm "breast area"?
`
`wfllw ;
`
`10254:.
`
`Mk. L4CHL% wax: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tia W DN%SS:
`
`I'm going to have to read through
`
`W2Z% ;
`
`this,
`
`so if you're prepared to wait.
`
`mfllfl
`
`;
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: As you sit here —— here
`
`W21”
`
`10B00
`
`W31“
`
`Wfllm
`
`Wfiifl
`
`1&m24
`
`right now, you don’: recall?
`
`A4
`
`Q.
`
`I don't recall.
`
`Okay.
`
`in —— on page l2 of your
`
`declaration, you also refer to a reference called
`
`Sara in paragraph 23.
`
`A_
`
`Okay_
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`28
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_028
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`10334
`
`W21”
`
`N213
`
`IQB34
`
`W23“
`
`Wflifl
`
`10344
`
`N21“
`
`Wflifl
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know it Sara had anything
`
`that you relied on to de"ne the term "breast area"?
`
`A.
`
`Q,
`
`Not that " reca”.
`
`" don't remember.
`
`Qkay_
`
`MR. POLEACK:
`
`:'m going to mark --
`
`Q.
`
`Eetore " do that,
`
`: just want
`
`to ask you
`
`one question about Harder Deposition Exhibit 3,
`
`the
`
`J.C. Penney catalog.
`
`Did you look at the entirety o: this
`
`W2¢m L
`
`catalog in preparing your opinion for today or only
`
`WQAW L
`
`this excerpt?
`
`m2¢% ;
`
`WJAH ;
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`This is the only excerpt
`
`I was aware 0;.
`
`Okay.
`
`You didn't look at any other pages
`
`m2¢n ;
`
`:
`
`the catalog?
`
`main ;
`
`A_
`
`NO_
`
`w2¢W ;
`
`MR. POLLACK:
`
`So I'm going to mark as Harder
`
`WQEN ’
`
`Deposition Exhib’t 3 a document that's known 5
`
`WJAN ;
`
`case as Exhibit 1005 in the iP& proceeding.
`
`W2¢B l
`
`entitled "LAUR:
`
`RA" -- "LAUKEN SARA expecti
`
`main
`
`WQAW
`
`W2¢%
`
`W2¢%
`
`m2¢M-
`
`W3¢“-
`
`sty;e_"
`
`(Patent Owner's Exhibit 5 was marked
`
`for identification and attached hereto.)
`
`” E W DNESS:
`
`Thank you.
`
`£208 2 ON O53 Cfikz You're welcome.
`
`.
`
`_
`
`BOLLACK:
`
`I
`
`— Harder Deposition
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`29
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_029
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`W24%
`
`W249
`
`10501
`
`Wflim
`
`Wflifi
`
`W25”
`
`1&%34
`
`W23”
`
`Wflfiw
`
`E
`
`‘bit 5,
`
`is that the Sara reference that you re:
`
`in your declaration?
`
`Ad
`
`Q.
`
`yes,
`
`Okay.
`
`Is there anything in the —— in the
`
`ference ttat defines the term "breast area"?
`
`.. L4CHL% Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`"fi W TN%SS: None that : see here.
`
`.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`Turn to page ll o:
`
`declaration, paragraph 23.
`
`10:26:13
`
`:_
`
`w2&M ;
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`'_3age
`
`'
`
`' ?
`
`?age ", yes, paragraph —— I'm sorry --
`
`mfléfl
`
`;
`
`paragraph 2l.
`
`I may have misspoke.
`
`W26W L
`
`mflflm ;
`
`.A.
`
`O.
`
`Okay. That's fine.
`
`There's a reference there to a patent to
`
`m2&B ;
`
`Stangle;
`
`is that correct?
`
`w2&M-;
`
`m2&M-;
`
`mfléfl
`
`10:26:30
`
`;
`
`:_
`
`Wflfim
`
`W263
`
`W26%
`
`N26”
`
`10:26:42
`
`W269
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know —— am I correct that
`
`Stangle doesn't discuss the breast area at all
`
`either?
`
`Mk. L%CHL% Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tia W TNfiSS:
`
`I am —— : haven't —— that was not
`
`part of my deposition.
`
`I don't know. Maybe it's in
`
`the actual patent. We would have to review the
`
`patent _
`
`O.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay. But it's not
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
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`
`30
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_030
`
`
`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`W26M-
`
`10:26:47
`
`W26“
`
`WJTW
`
`WQTB
`
`WQTN
`
`10:27:30
`
`WZTW
`
`IOW37
`
`something you focused on when you reviewed Stangle?
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`NO _
`
`O<ay.
`
`"‘ you could turn to page l4 o: your
`
`declaration, do you see that in paragraphs 26 and 27
`-1
`
`you refer -o something ca"ed "PULSE; An Early
`
`Lesson in ?rada" by 7anie"e Pergament?
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`yes _
`
`Okay.
`
`Am : correct that the Pergamen'
`
`ference doesn't discuss breast area, and tha‘
`
`WJTW ;
`
`: sometiing yo; relied on?
`
`WQTM ;
`
`Mk.
`
`fl%CHL% Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`WJTB ;
`
`Tia W TNESS:
`
`I would have to review it,
`
`the
`
`1&N46Z_
`
`document.
`
`W2TW L
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay.
`
`wflffl
`
`;
`
`MR. POLLACK: Let me mark,
`
`then, as Harder
`
`W2?” '
`
`Veposition Exhib’t
`
`6 a documen- referred to in the
`
`m2%% ;
`
`case as Exhib’:
`
`'OlO.
`
`It's entitled "PULSE;
`
`W2&m L
`
`Early Lesson in Prada."
`
`m2&n ;
`
`Patent Owner's Exhibit
`
`6 was marked
`
`W2&U
`
`W2&B
`
`W2&B
`
`W2&M
`
`W2&%
`
`10:28:20
`
`for identificat
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