throbber
FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`835$
`
`B353
`
`833W
`
`Bfiifl
`
`13534
`
`B3i%
`
`B35“
`
`835%
`
`13:35:47
`
`Bfiifl
`
`Bfiifl
`
`;
`
`;
`
`: other pants? Actual samples, not photos.
`
`A.
`
`I did go shopping and having a look at
`
`' ”erent maternity pants and seeing my daughter's
`
`ternity pants, as well, o: course.
`
`Q. Which ones did you compare or see --
`
`A.
`
`And also with Target's,
`
`I —— the attorneys
`
`showed me maternity samples.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you compare Secret Fit with Target's
`
`pants?
`
`Mk. L+CHL4 T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tifi W TN%SS:
`
`I think that we, obviously,
`
`talked
`
`B35“ L
`
`about any di””erences.
`
`B35fl
`
`13:35:53
`
`L
`
`:_
`
`835% ;
`
`B35? ;
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Well, what di
`
`”erences did
`
`YOU see?
`
`M&. L%CHL% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tifi W TN%SS:
`
`I think that on the —— one o:
`
`the
`
`Bfifim ;
`
`Target ones,
`
`they were —— had a seam maybe in the
`
`836% L
`
`back, and that was —— : don't know about
`
`the other
`
`B36% ;
`
`di””erences.
`
`I
`
`think they're all —— :
`
`think there
`
`B360
`
`was a combina iod, but not —— no.
`
`836W
`
`B36”
`
`B363
`
`11%24
`
`336%
`
`Q.
`
`3Y M_. BOLLACK:
`
`i"
`
`the Target pants go up
`
`to the empire "1e?
`
`M&. L%CHL% Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tifi W TN%SS: Yes.
`
`They went —— well, not
`
`empire line.
`
`They went over the abdomen.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`125
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_125
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`836%
`
`B363
`
`B363
`
`13%34
`
`B3&fl
`
`B36”
`
`B36“
`
`836W
`
`836%
`
`836% ;
`
`13:36:52
`
`Z-
`
`”erence.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`Same —— same thing?
`
`Jh—huh.
`
`So they —— so they did go to the empire
`
`Yes. Over the abdomen; right.
`
`And —— and that's true of the Secret Fit
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`pants, as well,
`
`they went to the empire line?
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`So does J.C. Penney.
`
`. We'll get
`
`to J.C. Penney in a second.
`
`.
`
`Yeah.
`
`B3&% ;
`
`Q.
`
`{ave you seen commercially sold maternity
`
`Bfifiw ;
`
`pants that don't go up to the emp’re l ne?
`
`Bfifm ;
`
`M&. L%CHL+ T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`B3T% ;
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS: Have : seen —— well,
`
`: talked
`
`B3T% ;
`
`about some that i'd seen when I was pregnant, yeah.
`
`11W09j_
`
`yes_
`
`13137109
`
`I-
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`Am : correct that
`
`B3TH ;
`
`companies are still selling maternity pants that
`
`B3TM
`
`B3T5
`
`B3TW
`
`B3?”
`
`Bfiffl
`
`B3TB
`
`go -— don't go to the empire line?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`What are the advantages of having pants go
`
`to the empire "ne?
`
`Mx. L%CHL% 3&3: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS:
`
`I think the wearer would be the
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`126
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_126
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`one to decide whether or not they felt comfortable
`
`wearing them.
`
`Some people, as I said earlier on,
`
`feel comfortable with a pant that goes over the
`
`abdomen and other people feel comfortable with it
`
`going under tie abdomen or folded over to the waist.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`DY M&. BOLLACK:
`
`Do you know why that is?
`
`I
`
`think it's just preferences.
`
`Do you know why they have those preferences
`
`.
`
`fiCHL% “ah: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`gr NH.
`
`2oLLAcK:
`
`—— what --
`
`Al Well, it's like why do you like a striped
`
`B3?”
`
`B3?”
`
`Bfllfl
`
`13W34
`
`B3T%
`
`B3?”
`
`B3?“
`
`B3TB
`
`B3%%
`
`B3T% l
`
`13:37:46
`
`Bfilfl
`
`:_
`
`L
`
`Bfifw l
`
`shirt or striped tie?
`
`" think ‘t's a personal
`
`Bfiffi
`
`;
`
`preference o” “it. Or why you like a certain pair
`
`B3T% ;
`
`o:
`
`jeans to wear.
`
`It's just a comfort.
`
`B3&m l
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know when the Secret Fit
`
`B3&M L
`
`products entered the market?
`
`B3&W l
`
`M&. L:C{LjlTf&: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`B3&m ;
`
`Tifi W rnassz As far as I can recall,
`
`B3&W
`
`B3&%
`
`B389
`
`B3&fl
`
`133834
`
`B3&%
`
`was —— the patent application was 2007.
`
`Q.
`
`DY M&. BOLLACK:
`
`Sure.
`
`Sure.
`
`But do you know when the —— when the
`
`product entered the market?
`
`gg_
`
`§qO_
`
`.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know whether —— in 2007,
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`127
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_127
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`83&@
`
`839W
`
`83&fl
`
`83&M-
`
`839m
`
`8398
`
`839%
`
`839%
`
`8398
`
`ther there were —— ignoring now the J.C. Peaney
`
`photographs, do you know o: any commerciaL pan"
`
`that you've actually seen, seen the actuaL pan‘
`
`where the pants went to the empire line?
`
`A.
`
`As
`
`I said earlier,
`
`the company that
`
`working with, Layette,
`
`they did have a roll—up pant.
`
`Q.
`
`Other than Layette, do you know o: any
`
`other pants —— actual pants that you've seen that
`
`went up to the empire line?
`
`8398 L
`
`A. Well,
`
`L wasn't really looking in 7007, at
`
`8398 L
`
`that time.
`
`8398 L
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So as you sit here today, you don't
`
`8398 L
`
`know of any pants, other than the Layette pants,
`
`839M L
`
`that went up to the empire line as o: 2007?
`
`198242-
`
`A.
`
`?or maternity wear?
`
`839% L
`
`.
`
`Tor maternity wear.
`
`839% L
`
`A.
`
`Not that L'm aware o‘.
`
`" personally wasn't
`
`8393 L
`
`looking then.
`
`839% L
`
`Q.
`
`Now, we're also talking about pan
`
`8398
`
`839W
`
`849%
`
`849%
`
`13:40:00
`
`19%04
`
`had a —— a roll—up tube that was attached to
`
`to the jeans or other pair of pants;
`
`is that
`
`correct?
`
`A.
`
`Correct.
`
`_
`
`Yeah _
`
`The roll—up pants, do —— do —— am L
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`128
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_128
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`840%
`
`840M
`
`B400
`
`13140114
`
`840M
`
`BAOW
`
`840%
`
`840%
`
`IEAB4
`
`that many of them do not go to the empire line when
`
`they're rolled up?
`
`MR. L%CHL+ Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`_3Y M&. BOLLACK:
`
`Is that fair?
`
`:
`
`think you've —— we've seen examples o:
`
`5
`
`them that don't.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`i would like to —— your help with
`
`understanding some terms in the attorney pants art.
`
`I've seen the term used "under—belly maternity
`
`13:40:41
`
`:_
`
`pants."
`
`B%0@ ;
`
`Do you know what that is?
`
`B4&B ;
`
`Al Well, it would sit under the belly o:
`
`B%&% ;
`
`wearer.
`
`B49” ;
`
`B403
`
`13:40:54
`
`:_
`
`B4&% ;
`
`840%
`
`Bfitm ;
`
`134UM
`
`BALW
`
`B4P%
`
`Bfikfl
`
`Bfikfi
`
`341%
`
`Q.
`
`A
`
`Q.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`So under the extended pregnant area?
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay.
`
`Like a low—riser —— a low—riser jean would.
`
`sure,
`
`Why would someone wear an under --
`
`under—belly maternity pants?
`
`Mk. LACHLA Tfikz Objection.
`
`Torm.
`
`Tia W TN%SS:
`
`: would assume they would wear
`
`them because it ‘e't comfortable to them to allow
`
`their body to —— or their belly to ‘eel
`
`‘ree of
`
`constriction.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`129
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_129
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`13141120
`
`Bfikfi
`
`84%”
`
`Bflkfi
`
`84%”
`
`Bfikfi
`
`B4L%
`
`Bflkfi
`
`Bfikfl
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`Do you know if there's --
`
`i:
`
`there are problems holding up under—belly
`
`maternity pants?
`
`Mk. L%CHL% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS:
`
`For the most part,
`
`from the
`
`experience :'ve seen,
`
`they're in a stretch fabric,
`
`so they hold to the body.
`
`Q.
`
`jY Mk. BOLLACK: Okay.
`
`Now,
`
`there are
`
`lso,
`
`I believe, pants that are referred to as
`
`11M%4 ;
`
`id-belly maternity pants;
`
`is that correct?
`
`B4L% ;
`
`A.
`
`I would think that would be obvious, yes.
`
`Bfikw ;
`
`B4Lw ;
`
`Bfltfi
`
`13:41:56
`
`;
`
`:_
`
`.
`
`_
`
`Okay.
`
`I'm not as fami'iar.
`
`yeah_
`
`Q.
`
`So what are —— what are mid—belly maternity
`
`pants?
`
`B4L% ;
`
`A.
`
`:
`
`think they would be similar to the ones
`
`Bfikfl
`
`;
`
`was talking about earlier in the '70s that went --
`
`Bfilm ;
`
`came up to the waist. That would be about
`
`13:42:03
`
`:_
`
`mid—belly.
`
`13904
`
`841W
`
`Bfilm
`
`B4ZU
`
`B41“
`
`U41“
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And are there any advantages or
`
`disadvantages of mid—belly maternity pants?
`
`Mk. W%CHL% flfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tia W TN%SS:
`
`I think you would have to probably
`
`do a sirvey of pregnant women to find out which ones
`
`they would prefer to wear.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`130
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_130
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`BAX”
`
`13:42:20
`
`841%
`
`B413
`
`B41”
`
`B%ZM-
`
`841%
`
`13142139
`
`B41”
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay.
`
`You haven't
`
`looked
`
`into that?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`:
`
`think that everybody's got their own
`
`ference on that.
`
`Q.
`
`And :
`
`think there's another kind o:
`
`maternity pants that are referred to as
`
`over—the—belly maternity pants;
`
`is that correct?
`
`A.
`
`Yes .
`
`.
`
`Okay. What —— what are those?
`
`Bfllfl
`
`;
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think we have examples o:
`
`the Penney and,
`
`B%Z% ;
`
`f course, o‘ “estination going over the belly.
`
`B42” ;
`
`Q.
`
`What does it mean to be over the belly?
`
`Bfilfl
`
`Bfllfi
`
`;
`
`;
`
`A, Well, it would cover and encompass the
`
`ily portion where —— where the pregnancy is and
`
`841% L
`
`low the breast.
`
`Bfiiw L
`
`Q.
`
`Am I correct that over—:he—beliy pants,
`
`Bfiiw ;
`
`though, don’: necessarily go to the empire line?
`
`Bfiim ;
`
`M&. L:CHLjiTjR: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`B436 ;
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS: Well,
`
`the empire line can Vary,
`
`U41“
`
`Bfilfl
`
`13314
`
`Bfilfl
`
`B41”
`
`B413
`
`just as under the breast area can vary.
`
`So you
`
`could have an empire line that might be 2
`
`inches
`
`below the breast or it could still be just above the
`
`waistline and be considered to be an empire line.
`
`So it's —— there's no measurement given to an empire
`
`line_
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`131
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_131
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`11534
`
`841%
`
`8418
`
`8418
`
`841%
`
`8418
`
`8413
`
`8413
`
`841fl
`
`.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`Sure.
`
`But back to my question.
`
`Am I correct that
`
`there are over—:he—belly pan-s -haL don't
`
`necessarily go to the empire line?
`
`Mk. L+CHL4 Tfikz Objection -o form.
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS:
`
`I'm not quite sure what you mean.
`
`it's over the belly.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`jY M&. BOLLACK: Uh-huh. Right.
`
`"” i-'s over the belly, it's over the
`
`841% ;
`
`waist.
`
`So that would be the empire line; correct?
`
`841% ’
`
`"s that what you're asking me?
`
`841% ;
`
`841m L
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`841m ;
`
`belly --
`
`1144I01
`
`I-
`
`841% ;
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`::'s over the waist --
`
`it's going over the belly. Over the
`
`Uh-huh.
`
`—— is above the waist.
`
`13:44:03
`
`:_
`
`.
`
`Okay.
`
`841% L
`
`A.
`
`So that would take it to the empire line.
`
`841% ;
`
`So anything above the waist is considered to be an
`
`841”
`
`8418
`
`8418
`
`841M-
`
`841%
`
`841W
`
`empire line.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. Are there any over—:he—belly
`
`pants —— maternity pants that do not reach to just
`
`under the breasts?
`
`Mk. L%CHL% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS:
`
`I think you would have to decide
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`132
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_132
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`84¢”
`
`B4¢fl
`
`B443
`
`B4¢M-
`
`844%
`
`34¢”
`
`84¢“
`
`B4¢%
`
`on the types o
`
`”abrics used and the wearer,
`
`the
`
`size o:
`
`the wearer.
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`Uh—huh.
`
`Some of i- might stretch —— the same pant
`
`might stretch on one person over the breast if she's
`
`a small woman.
`
`Some o” it,
`
`i” she's a big woman,
`
`is
`
`not going to reach.
`
`I: would depend on the wearer
`
`themselves as to —— or as to how much stretch the
`
`844%
`
`fabric had.
`
`844% ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. %ut
`
`am correct the wearers
`
`B4¢fl
`
`;
`
`normally would size their clothing; correct?
`
`B4¢% ;
`
`Mk. L%CHL+ Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`B4¢% L
`
`B4¢%
`
`Tl: WiTNjSS:
`
`They would size their clothing,
`
`B4¢% L
`
`Q.
`
`jY MR. BOLLACK: Okay.
`
`So they would pick
`
`B4i% ;
`
`'
`
`”erenL si es -ha- are appropriate for them?
`
`845% L
`
`B4i% ;
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`So given that, are you able to answer
`
`B4i% ;
`
`whether or not over—the—belly pants —— assuming the
`
`345%
`
`U450
`
`B45W
`
`B4iW
`
`845%
`
`B45”
`
`wearer's wearing the appropria:e size for them, are
`
`th r
`
`ov r th b lly pants that don't reach to just
`
`under the breasts?
`
`M_.
`
`.%CHL% Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`3 a
`
`2N%SS:
`
`2 think you'll find that some
`
`I'm not being evasive, but some people
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`133
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_133
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`B4ifl
`
`1
`
`have a lower torso or the breasts may be lower, and
`
`843% 2
`
`so anything over the waist, you know,
`
`is —— that is
`
`843% 3
`
`maybe considered to be under the breast.
`
`So it's
`
`B458
`
`4
`
`hard to say. And, plus, certain fabrics, as I've
`
`B4iW 5
`
`seen,
`
`they all stretch in di””erent ways, and you
`
`B459
`
`6
`
`can have ‘t s’t in a certain area that feels
`
`845% 7
`
`com‘ortab'e, but if you're a bigger woman --
`
`B4i% 8
`
`B4i% 9
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay.
`
`—— you pull it up.
`
`13:45:47
`
`:_o
`
`.
`
`Right. Right.
`
`B43“
`
`1
`
`Well, doesn't that —— given all those
`
`B45” '2
`
`”ac-ors, doesn't that mean that then that must be
`
`B438 ;3
`
`that over—the—belly pants, at least on some women,
`
`841% ;4
`
`don't reach to jist under the breast area?
`
`843% ;5
`
`&. L%CH1% l%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`846% ;6
`
`“l4 W TN%SS: Well, of course, we have to de:
`
`846% ;7
`
`iader the breast area is.
`
`846% L8
`
`Q.
`
`5Y M4.
`
`9OLLACK: Okay.
`
`B46% ;9
`
`B4&% 20
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Is it under breast --
`
`But whatever --
`
`B4&% 21
`
`A.
`
`—— or under the breast area?
`
`B46W 22
`
`B46W 23
`
`B46m 24
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`M
`
`Sure. Whatever definition you are using.
`
`Right.
`
`So : think --
`
`fiCHLfi ”%R: Objection to
`
`B4&U 25
`
`T 4
`
`TNfiSS: —- it wou'd sit ’
`
`‘jerent ways
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`134
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_134
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`8468
`
`on the breast —— on the wearer.
`
`8468
`
`846%
`
`846%
`
`846%
`
`8468
`
`846%
`
`846”
`
`8468
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK:
`
`"f you wanted to design a
`
`product that would go up to just beneath the
`
`breasts, what would you do?
`
`A.
`
`Probably : would get in some models and
`
`find out what
`
`the measurements are and do a fit and
`
`sort of do a techn’ca' analysis of what you would
`
`need to do and then also analy e _he fabrics to see
`
`which types o
`
`”abrics stretch better. And some o;
`
`846% ;
`
`them will stretch more than others and be —- and be
`
`846% ;
`
`comfortable on di
`
`”erent sizes.
`
`846% ;
`
`Q. Would you use mannequins, as well?
`
`846% ;
`
`something that's done?
`
`846% ;
`
`A.
`
`Yeah.
`
`You have mannequins with --
`
`84Tm ;
`
`sometimes they w"l have a strap—on pregnant belly
`
`84T% L
`
`or you can actua"y have mannequins made to
`
`84TW L
`
`di””erent sizes of the pregnancy.
`
`84T8 ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And that would be part of
`
`the
`
`84TH ;
`
`process of designing a —— maternity pants that went
`
`84T8
`
`84T8
`
`84T8
`
`84T8
`
`84T%
`
`84?”
`
`to just under the breast area?
`
`A.
`
`That's right.
`
`They would check it on
`
`d’
`
`"erent sizes —— di"”erent sizes and di
`
`"erent
`
`t’m ng of the pregnancy,
`
`so six months, seven
`
`months, eight months, depending on that.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Just ask a few more word questions.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`135
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_135
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`B%T%
`
`13:47:49
`
`B4?”
`
`B4Tfl
`
`B4T%
`
`B4?“
`
`B4&m
`
`B4&H
`
`B%&B
`
`Do you know what a jersey knit is?
`
`yes _
`
`Okay. What is a jersey knit?
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`A, Well,
`
`there's wool jersey and there's
`
`di ”erent —— most o
`
`i, is applying to wool, wool
`
`jersey, and it's a knit, a knitted fabric.
`
`Q.
`
`And then I've also seen in the documents
`
`the phrase "ribbed knit."
`
`Do you know what that is?
`
`A.
`
`Ribbed knit is usually —— the rib is the
`
`B%&W ;
`
`bottom par- of a sweater or on the cu
`
`“s or it could
`
`B%&% ;
`
`be around the neck.
`
`B4&% ;
`
`B4&% ;
`
`BA&fi
`
`;
`
`m4&% ;
`
`.
`
`.
`
`,
`
`Is that also a knit that's in wool?
`
`Rib could be in any type o” “fiber.
`
`= kn=t,
`
`what's --
`
`B%&w ;
`
`A.
`
`So you can have a —— you could have a
`
`B4&@ ;
`
`spandex rib.
`
`B4&M-L
`
`B4&% ;
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay. What's --
`
`That would really stretch.
`
`B4&W
`
`B%&fl
`
`B4&%
`
`B4&W
`
`B%&”
`
`B49M-
`
`Q. What's d"‘erent about a ribbed knit
`
`from
`
`other —— a ribbed knit from other kinds of knits?
`
`Mk. L%CHL+ Tfikz Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tlfi W DN%SS: Well, on my experience,
`
`I would
`
`say that ribbed knit would probably expand,
`
`I would
`
`say, quite well because it's —— it typically expands
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`136
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_136
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`849%
`
`13:49:11
`
`849M
`
`B499
`
`B495
`
`13:49:19
`
`B499
`
`B493
`
`849%
`
`and it holds the body --
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`_5Y l\/H.
`
`JBOLLACK: Okay.
`
`—— it holds the shape.
`
`And what is it about
`
`the knit that makes it
`
`a ribbed knit? What is it about
`
`the way it's put
`
`together?
`
`A.
`
`It's the knitting technique.
`
`So it's not
`
`just straight knit.
`
`it's what we call knit one,
`
`purl one,
`
`so you get your ribbing.
`
`B493 i
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And what about a jersey knit? What
`
`U493 L
`
`is it about a jersey knit that makes it a jersey
`
`B49% ;
`
`knit?
`
`B495 i
`
`A. Well,
`
`i
`
`think that's just a general
`
`B49% ;
`
`terminology.
`
`So jersey knit could be a hand knit,
`
`B49“ ;
`
`it could be a machine knit,
`
`so it's just a technical
`
`849% ;
`
`word.
`
`So it could be a wool knit or it could be
`
`849% ;
`
`synthetic, it could be a mixture.
`
`It's just a
`
`B498 ;
`
`general
`
`term ‘or jersey,
`
`jersey knit.
`
`B49% ;
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah, but,
`
`I mean, what does it mean? What
`
`349%
`
`349%
`
`B50“
`
`850%
`
`550W
`
`U503
`
`makes something a jersey knit?
`
`A. Well, it's like saying a woven or a knit.
`
`it's just a terminology to describe that type o:
`
`knitted garment.
`
`So you could have a woven garr
`
`that's —— that's a twili woven, and that's the
`
`terminology in the weaving.
`
`A jersey knit or a knit
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`137
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_137
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`850$
`
`B50fl
`
`B502
`
`13:50:27
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`ribbing is —— it's a terminology used for knit.
`
`Q.
`
`: mean, do you know what it is about how
`
`they knit it that distinguishes a jersey kni
`
`from,
`
`say,
`
`a twi '
`
`' kni t?
`
`850% 5
`
`Al Well, you dO1'fi get a twill knit.
`
`Twf
`
`B50N 6
`
`used for the woven. But, obv’ous'y, we're saying
`
`B503
`
`850$
`
`7
`
`8
`
`B50W 9
`
`B6&% ;O
`
`13:50:38 Z_l
`
`B6&% ;2
`
`di”"erent terminologies.
`
`A rib is —— it “ were to
`
`knit you one now with a needle --
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q .
`
`A.
`
`Right. Right.
`
`—— two needles --
`
`Uh-h 31h .
`
`—— it would be —— it would be purl one,
`
`B60“ L3
`
`knit one or knit one, purl one.
`
`13:50:40
`
`:_4
`
`859% ;5
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`13:50:45
`
`2-6
`
`rib.
`
`Right.
`
`And that —— you would then achieve that
`
`B5&% ;7
`
`Q.
`
`That would give the ribbed knit.
`
`How would
`
`B50“ '8
`
`" get
`
`the jersey knit?
`
`B59” ;9
`
`13150149 20
`
`B6&fl 21
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`The jersey knit?
`
`Yeah.
`
`The jersey knit, well,
`
`that's usually a
`
`Bfiflfl 22
`
`little bit thicker, and so that's —— that's probably
`
`860%-23
`
`the technician who sets the machinery up.
`
`So you
`
`B5&% 24
`
`would be talking to them as a designer, and you say
`
`Bfikm 25
`
`you would need a little thicker knit,
`
`so they would
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`138
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_138
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`135M”
`
`B5L%
`
`Bfikm
`
`B5kB
`
`Bfikfi
`
`B5LW
`
`85%”
`
`Bfikfi
`
`Bfikfl
`
`probably use a jersey knit method to create that.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`You don't know the technical details
`
`:
`
`how they get
`
`the jersey knit versus —— versus the
`
`ib? That's for the technical guy?
`
`A.
`
`The technical guy would be doing
`
`the jersey —— using the machine to build the
`
`technical fabrics, and then they would work with the
`
`designers to see whether or not that,
`
`in
`
`ac_, did
`
`what
`
`they did. And they would be playing with
`
`B51” L
`
`di”"erent threads and di””erent kinds of materials
`
`B513 L
`
`to find what
`
`they wanted.
`
`13:51:34
`
`Bfitfl
`
`:_
`
`;
`
`Q.
`
`"Right. Right.
`
`But that's oitside of your area?
`
`B5t% ;
`
`A.
`
`That's a —— that's probably a textile
`
`85%” L
`
`engineer's job.
`
`Bfikw ;
`
`Bstm ;
`
`Bfikfl
`
`;
`
`Q.
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`And you're not a textile engineer?
`
`NO_
`
`Other than this case, have you ever
`
`35%“ L
`
`consulted with Target?
`
`13354
`
`Bfikfi
`
`851%
`
`13304
`
`851%
`
`B533
`
`&. L%CH1% fl%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`”{fi W TN%SS: Been on a case opposing them.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: What case was that?
`
`it was a copyright infringement.
`
`Is it —— you have some cases listed in
`
`CV on page 3.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`139
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_139
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`B518
`
`B513
`
`B528
`
`B518
`
`852%
`
`13:53:04
`
`B51%
`
`B51”
`
`13:53:12
`
`A. Where is tha'
`
`Q.
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`it's Harder Deposition Txhibit
`
`lO.
`
`Okay_
`
`Is it —— is it any o:
`
`the cases that are
`
`listed there?
`
`A_
`
`Q.
`
`NO _
`
`:
`
`think you said you participated in
`
`six cases. Are there two cases that you didn't list
`
`On E/Qur
`
`861M ;
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think th s
`
`w r
`
`th on s that went
`
`to
`
`Bfiiw L
`
`trial.
`
`That was why I had —— : had them listed.
`
`Bfiifl
`
`Bfiifi
`
`;
`
`;
`
`th nk " asked the attorneys,
`
`"Do you want me to have
`
`al' o‘ them down?" Because i have more than that.
`
`851W '
`
`"
`
`think th s
`
`w r
`
`tn on s that went
`
`to trial.
`
`851% ;
`
`Q.
`
`Were you deposed in the other —— in the
`
`Bfiifl
`
`;
`
`other two?
`
`13$32;_
`
`Bfiifl
`
`Bfiifi
`
`;
`
`;
`
`B51”
`
`851%
`
`B51“
`
`13:53:46
`
`B5$%
`
`13:53:48
`
`A”
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`yes_
`
`Okay.
`
`So you were deposed in six cases?
`
`More than that total over —— you know, but
`
`they didn't all go to trial.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you testify at trial
`
`in all
`
`these cases?
`
`_
`
`.
`
`_\lQ _
`
`Did you testify at trial in any o:
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`140
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_140
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`B51“
`
`851$
`
`Bfiifl
`
`B515
`
`B535
`
`B51“
`
`B5¢W
`
`35AM
`
`B5¢W
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`They —— these went
`
`to trial, but
`
`I
`
`didn't have to testity.
`
`O.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know why not?
`
`No,
`
`I don't know why.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know whether you were
`
`excluded from testifying at trial in any of these
`
`cases?
`
`A,
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`: wasn't excluded.
`
`Okay. Did you know that motions were
`
`B5¢% L
`
`to exclude you it any of these cases?
`
`13:54:07
`
`:_
`
`B5¢% L
`
`B6¢W ;
`
`B5¢B ’
`
`B5¢W ;
`
`B5¢N ;
`
`B6¢H ;
`
`B5¢% L
`
`B5¢% ’
`
`B5¢%
`
`B5¢B
`
`B5¢%
`
`13:54:38
`
`85¢”
`
`B5i%
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`No.
`
`You didn't know that?
`
`No,
`
`: was not.
`
`No one ‘i ed to exclude me.
`
`— no one —— as far as I'm aware,
`
`there's
`
`I've never been told that I've been --
`
`tried to file to exclude me.
`
`Okay.
`
`You didn't know that there were
`
`'
`
`i think,
`
`in all four —— in three of the
`
`to exclude you?
`
`'
`
`'
`
`Q.
`
`And no one discussed with you what
`
`the
`
`outcomes were of any of those motions?
`
`A_
`
`NO _
`
`.
`
`Okay. Have you ever consulted with Liz
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`141
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_141
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`1355106
`
`855%
`
`13:55:06
`
`B5i%
`
`855M
`
`B5iW
`
`11516
`
`355%
`
`B53“
`
`855% ;
`
`1&$45;_
`
`855% L
`
`*'.POS 'l' ON OJ:'J:' C*'.R: With who?
`
`R. POLLACK: Liz Lange.
`
`«.208
`
`ON ow cm:
`
`'l'hank you.
`
`“ 4 W EN%SS: No,
`
`that I'm aware o:.
`
`.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Have you ever consulted
`
`with a company Called Cherokee,
`
`Inc.?
`
`Ad
`
`Q.
`
`vO_
`
`lave you ever heard o:
`
`the term ":
`
`panel" in regard to maternity clothes?
`
`A.
`
`Q,
`
`A.
`
`Full panel?
`
`yeah_
`
`Full panel.
`
`I'm not quite sure.
`
`You gotta
`
`B558 ;
`
`put it in a sentence.
`
`i'm not sure whether it means
`
`13554 ;
`
`the panel for the —— panel for the maternity panel.
`
`355% ’
`
`"s that what you --
`
`355% ;
`
`B55” L
`
`B5i% ;
`
`Q,
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`yeS_
`
`—— are referring to?
`
`"'m re‘erring to the panel
`
`856% L
`
`the maternity panel.
`
`356%
`
`856%
`
`B56%
`
`856W
`
`B56“
`
`B56“
`
`A.
`
`Okay. Right. Okay. Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`.
`
`Okay. What does ‘ul' panel mean?
`
`A.
`
`:'m not quite sure o: your terminology i
`
`the full panel,
`
`so I'm hesitant to give you a 'u'
`
`description on that.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. What does it mean to you? Forget
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`142
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_142
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`8568
`
`8568
`
`856%
`
`856%
`
`856%
`
`8563
`
`856M-
`
`856W
`
`856%
`
`about what it means to me. What —— in your
`
`understanding, what is a full panel?
`
`A, Well,
`
`a full panel, it could either go all
`
`the way around the body or it could be just in the
`
`front part of the body,
`
`fron- panel or a “ul'
`
`circumference panel.
`
`It would depend on how
`
`you would —— how you were using it and what
`
`terminology.
`
`Q. Well, what makes it full? What makes it a
`
`13:56:42
`
`'
`
`':U_'|'| panel?
`
`856% l
`
`A. Well, if it's a full panel circumferencing
`
`856% l
`
`the body or whether it's a panel just in the front
`
`856% l
`
`o:
`
`the pant.
`
`856% ;
`
`Q.
`
`So a full panel is one that goes around the
`
`8568 l
`
`entire body?
`
`856%-l
`
`A.
`
`l honestly —— l would prefer not
`
`to make a
`
`856W l
`
`judgment on that because I'm not sure how —— how
`
`856% l
`
`it's being referred to,
`
`in which terms, whether it's
`
`BSTW ;
`
`a full panel circumferencing the body or whether
`
`85T%
`
`85?”
`
`85?”
`
`85T8
`
`13:57:15
`
`mfirw
`
`it's a full
`
`front panel.
`
`Q. What's a full
`
`front panel?
`
`Al Well,
`
`that would be the panel
`
`talked about earlier that's sewn in to
`
`the pant ——
`
`Q_
`
`Okay_
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`143
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_143
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`B5T%
`
`B5?”
`
`11930
`
`B5TB
`
`357%
`
`B5TN
`
`13:57:31
`
`B5?“
`
`A.
`
`—— or it could be a full panel that
`
`encompasses the whole body.
`
`Q.
`
`So for a —— ‘or a tull
`
`‘ront panel that is
`
`in the jront oi
`
`the pants, what makes it full? Why
`
`is it Called a ‘u_1 panel?
`
`A.
`
`Because it's encompassing the
`
`the pant _
`
`Q.
`
`{ow high —— is there anything special about
`
`13W34
`
`the height o" a
`
`”u11 panel or not really?
`
`Bfiffl
`
`;
`
`B5?“ ;
`
`Mk. L%CH1% Tfikz Objection to form.
`
`Tifi W TN%SS:
`
`I don't think there's a
`
`Bfiffl
`
`;
`
`measurement on it,
`
`so : co;ldn't give you a
`
`B5T% i
`
`definition.
`
`B5T% i
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Yeah.
`
`Bfifw ;
`
`: mean —— I mean, does a full panel go
`
`B5?“ ;
`
`higher than other kinds of panels on —— on the
`
`:_
`
`;
`
`;
`
`13:57:51
`
`Bfiffl
`
`Bfiffl
`
`B5?“
`
`85$“
`
`358%
`
`B5&W
`
`B5&W
`
`B5&U
`
`tojfsg?
`
`Mk. L:C1LjiTjR: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`Tifi W wnassz Full pane; couid be the ‘u'1 panel
`
`that's to the pant
`
`top or it couid be extending
`
`above,
`
`so it depends on —— on how you're determining
`
`the structure around the full panel, how you're
`
`going to J88 it.
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: Okay.
`
`So full panel could
`
`mean just extending to the top o:
`
`the pants?
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`144
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_144
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`13:58:14
`
`B6&B
`
`1
`
`2
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`
`Did you see any prior art that you reviewed
`
`B5&% 3
`
`for this case that had a ‘u’l panel?
`
`B5&M 4
`
`A.
`
`Let me review that.
`
`1id
`
`re‘erence that
`
`MDOW 5
`
`in my report?
`
`MOON
`
`14:00:01
`
`MOON
`
`MflO%
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`: don't think so.
`
`Okay.
`
`: was just wondering if you saw anything
`
`that had a full panel.
`
`MD&% ;O
`
`A.
`
`I don't reca".
`
`"'m just wondering i-
`
`M00% 1
`
`had it in my report, " you could refer -o it.
`
`MOON ;2
`
`Q.
`
`No. No.
`
`"
`
`’dn't see that term in your
`
`M008 ;3
`
`report.
`
`M008 ;4
`
`A.
`
`Okay.
`
`So I —— without reading everything,
`
`M005 ’5
`
`" have no reCol'eCt’on —— recognition o:
`
`of what
`
`MQQR ;6
`
`you mean by "‘u" panel," so it's hard for me to
`
`MDOH ;7
`
`give you a de‘in’tion.
`
`M003 L8
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`3ut,
`
`: mean, using your
`
`MDQM-;9
`
`understanding o
`
`"ull panel, did you see any prior
`
`M0&N 20
`
`art that had a ‘u'l panel?
`
`MQQE 21
`
`A.
`
`I'm confused to what you really mean by
`
`M005 22
`
`full panel," so it's hard for me to give you a
`
`MDOR 23
`
`or "no" on that.
`
`M009 24
`
`.
`
`Okay. Well, you saf
`
`ier it was --
`
`MDOM 25 well, let's take a full pane:
`
`fiull
`
`firont panel.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`145
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_145
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`M00“
`
`M00“
`
`Mflfiw
`
`M003
`
`MDOW
`
`MOLW
`
`MDLW
`
`MOLW
`
`M0t%
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Jh—huh.
`
`“id you see any prior art that had a
`
`front panel?
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`think w ‘V
`
`s
`
`n vid nc s of panels in
`
`. Bowdry [sic] with a panel
`
`in the front --
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`n %rowder?
`
`—— and a panel
`
`in the back. Browder.
`
`. Which —— which figures in Qrowder show
`
`ful' panel —— a full
`
`front panel?
`
`MDLW ;
`
`. Well, whether it's full,
`
`" mean, you've got
`
`MDLU ;
`
`Figure l which has a panel
`
`in -he front.
`
`MDLM ;
`
`MOLW ;
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Okay. That's the control area?
`
`That's right. And then Figure 3 has got a
`
`Mfltm ;
`
`panel that circumferences the body. And then on
`
`MDLM ;
`
`Figure 5, you've got a panel
`
`in the front of the
`
`14:01:27
`
`:_
`
`skirt.
`
`Mflkfi
`
`MDLW ;
`
`MDLM
`
`MDLB
`
`Mflkfi
`
`M01”
`
`1¢m40
`
`MDEB
`
`MQLW
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q,
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q_
`
`A.
`
`Is '
`
`Jha'
`
`Qkay_
`
`is that a ful'
`
`front panel?
`
`'
`
`'1 front panei.
`
`And then 7 has a panel.
`
`is that a full
`
`front panel
`
`it looks like a full panel.
`
`okay,
`
`And then on Figure ll,
`
`the maternity pants,
`
`they have a panel
`
`in :he front.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`146
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_146
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`morn
`
`MDLW
`
`Mflkfl
`
`MDEB
`
`MDLW
`
`M01“
`
`MDZW
`
`M0Z%
`
`M01”
`
`Q,
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`you __
`
`And l0,
`
`too.
`
`L0 and ll.
`
`Okay.
`
`So in l;, you would consider that --
`
`the non—control area there to be a ‘ull
`
`‘ront panel?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay. And what —— what is it that makes --
`
`let's take Figure ll. What is it that makes the
`
`panel
`
`in ?igure 1’
`
`a ‘ull
`
`‘ront panel?
`
`A.
`
`Because it encompasses the body —— the
`
`M01“ L
`
`torso, bottom part o:
`
`the torso,
`
`front panel.
`
`M019 ;
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`I have one other term I was hoping
`
`MQZW L
`
`to understand.
`
`Do you —— do you know the term
`
`M02“ L
`
`"high—rise front panel"?
`
`Mflln ;
`
`Mk. L%CHL% T%R: Objection.
`
`Form.
`
`MDZB ;
`
`Tlfi W TN%SS: High rise? High rise, as we
`
`MDZ% ;
`
`talked about
`
`low rise, would be the opposite o:
`
`MDZW ;
`
`low rise,
`
`so it would be rising above the waist.
`
`MDZM-L
`
`Q.
`
`BY MR. POLLACK: And how high does a
`
`Mfllw ;
`
`high—rise front panel go?
`
`Mfllm
`
`14W06
`
`M01”
`
`Mfllm
`
`Mflim
`
`M01”
`
`A.
`
`That varies again. Could be an inch, could
`
`be 2
`
`inches, could be 4
`
`inches, could be more than
`
`that.
`
`So a high rise could have an ending below the
`
`breasts,
`
`so it depends on the definition o: how
`
`rise —— how high you want the rise to be.
`
`Q.
`
`So it could be below the breast or it could
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`147
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_147
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`M013
`
`be not below the breast?
`
`14%24
`
`Mfllfi
`
`M013
`
`H055
`
`Mfiifl
`
`M055
`
`Mfliw
`
`Mflifl
`
`.A.
`
`It could be mid —— yeah, mid—torso above
`
`the waist.
`
`it normally refers to above the waist.
`
`Q.
`
`Turn to paragraph l6 of your declaration.
`
`You say about midway down,
`
`"A POSA" —— P—O—S—A --
`
`"could make moditications to garments to render them
`
`suitable for use during pregnancy based on market
`
`demand for designs including speci"ic "eatures
`
`and/or design needs or market pressures to solve a
`
`Mflifi
`
`;
`
`problem with a finite number of solutions."
`
`Mfliw ;
`
`14%40Z_
`
`M03“ ;
`
`1¢%42j_
`
`Mflifl
`
`Mflifl
`
`Mflifl
`
`;
`
`;
`
`'
`
`M06% ’
`
`14%08
`
`MD&%
`
`14%09
`
`M068
`
`Mflflm
`
`Mflfim
`
`.
`
`.
`
`.
`
`,
`
`.
`
`.
`
`"
`
`"
`
`'
`
`'
`
`vid
`
`read that correctly?
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay. First
`
`f all, what's —— what's a
`
`Person of —— oh,
`
`I'm crazy.
`
`A person o:
`
`: don't know this one o”” my heart.
`
`Sorry.
`
`- getting a total blank.
`
`It's a person o:
`
`- being —— : don't know.
`
`i'm sorry.
`
`i'm
`
`Qkay_
`
`—— getting a mental —— a mental block here.
`
`No problem.
`
`Let me ask ——
`
`A.
`
`?erson of obvious —— it will come to me in
`
`M063
`
`a second.
`
`Sorry.
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`148
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_148
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`14%24
`
`M06%
`
`M06”
`
`M06”
`
`M06”
`
`M06”
`
`M0&”
`
`M06”
`
`M06“
`
`.
`
`Okay.
`
`No problem.
`
`A.
`
`It will come to me in a minute. Okay.
`
`Go
`
`on with your question, and I'll come back to it.
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`No --
`
`know what it is, but I'm just --
`
`No problem.
`
`—— getting a mental block.
`
`Prior to —— prior to working on this case,
`
`Mfléfl
`
`l
`
`had you ever heard of anything called a POSA or
`
`14%fl6j_
`
`PQSA?
`
`M0&% l
`
`A.
`
`A person of —— yeah,
`
`I have heard o:
`
`M06” l
`
`But a person o‘ ordinary skills and arts or
`
`M0&% ;
`
`something like that.
`
`14:06:57
`
`l
`
`M0&% l
`
`14:07:00
`
`l
`
`14WO0I_
`
`Q .
`
`Right .
`
`A person of ordinary skill in the art?
`
`.
`
`.
`
`Yes .
`
`Okay.
`
`MDTW ;
`
`A.
`
`Okay. Got it. Yes,
`
`I have. But, you
`
`M0TW
`
`14W06
`
`M0T%
`
`M0TB
`
`M0T%
`
`M0TW
`
`know,
`
`l don't normally use it in every day, but
`
`have heard o‘ it.
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`"
`
`think in here you gave a definition
`
`f a person o‘ ordinary skill in the art?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Right.
`
`{ow did you come up with that definition?
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`149
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_149
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`MDT”
`
`MDTB
`
`Mfllfi
`
`Mfllfl
`
`M0?”
`
`M0?“
`
`MDT”
`
`Mfllfl
`
`A.
`
`Because we were —— I
`
`think we were
`
`discussing what it would need for an ordinary person
`
`in the arts to be able to take the existing --
`
`pre—existing artwork to come to the conclusion that
`
`was obvious to create a maternity pant with an
`
`extended tubular knit to go over tqe be "y.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`So you looked for -he kind of person
`
`who would come to a conclusion _ha_ it was obvious
`
`M0T%
`
`to come up with the invention at issue in this case?
`
`Mflfw ;
`
`Mflifl
`
`;
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay. Did you do that on your own or you
`
`MD&M-;
`
`did that with the assistance of counsel?
`
`M0&% ;
`
`A.
`
`i did that basically on my own because i'm
`
`M0&W ;
`
`probably the only one who would understand how to
`
`MD&fl
`
`;
`
`create that and how to come up with that,
`
`taking and
`
`M0&B ;
`
`putting it together and constructing it --
`
`Mo&w ;
`
`MD&W ;
`
`MD&N ;
`
`M0&M-
`
`M0&%
`
`M08“
`
`M0&%
`
`M0&W
`
`M0&W
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`O.
`
`Okay.
`
`—— with the materials that are available.
`
`Okay. Going back to 16, we were reading
`
`this sentence where i: says,
`
`"A POSA" —— or person
`
`of ordinary skill in the art —— "could make
`
`modifications to garments to render them suitable
`
`for use during pregnancy based on market demand..."
`
`Is it your view that
`
`the jact _haL it's
`
`technically possible to produce items to meet
`
`those
`
`CENTEXT LEGAL SERVICES
`888.803.3443
`
`150
`
`DMC Exhibit 2018_150
`
`

`
`FRANCES HARDER
`
`April 24, 2014
`
`MD9%
`
`M09”
`
`Mfl9W
`
`M09W
`
`M090
`
`14:09:13
`
`M095
`
`M09W
`
`M093
`
`demands,
`
`is —— is that what makes the invention in
`
`this case obvious?
`
`Mk. L%CHL% Tfikz Objection to form.
`
`Tifi W TN%SS: What is the question? Sorry.
`
`Can
`
`you repeat twat?
`
`Q.
`
`3Y VIR. POLLACK: Yeah. Maybe
`
`rephrase it.
`
`is what you're saying here that a person o:
`
`ordinary skill has the ability to make or produce
`
`M993 ;
`
`products to meet market demands,
`
`is that what makes
`
`MD9fl
`
`;
`
`the invention in this case obvious,
`
`in your view?
`
`MD9% ;
`
`A.
`
`I
`
`thin< that taking all the prior art that
`
`M09“ L
`
`was available and also seeing the demand,
`
`that it
`
`M09% L
`
`would be obvious.
`
`MD9% ;
`
`M09” 1
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah.
`
`: understand that.
`
`Qut
`
`is it —— is it obvious because —— is
`
`MD9fl
`
`;
`
`what you're saying is —— is it obvious because a
`
`MD9% ;
`
`person of ordinary skill could technically make the

This document is available on Docket Alarm but you must sign up to view it.


Or .

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.

After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.

Accept $ Charge
throbber

Still Working On It

This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.

Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.

throbber

A few More Minutes ... Still Working

It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.

Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.

We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.

Set your membership status to view this document.

With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll get a whole lot more, including:

  • Up-to-date information for this case.
  • Email alerts whenever there is an update.
  • Full text search for other cases.
  • Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

Become a Member

One Moment Please

The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.

Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!

If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document

We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.

If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.


Access Government Site

We are redirecting you
to a mobile optimized page.





Document Unreadable or Corrupt

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket

We are unable to display this document.

Refresh this Document
Go to the Docket