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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SkyHawke Technologies, §
`LLC, §
` §
` Petitioner § Case IPR 2014-00437
` § Case IPR 2014-00438
`VS. §
` §
`L&H Concepts, Inc., § Patent 5,779,566
` §
` Patent Owner §
`______________________ §
`
` DEPOSITION OF ALAN BALL
` Austin, Texas
` Friday, February 20, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`MICHEAL A. JOHNSON, RMR, CRR
`JOB NO. 90458
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 1
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 2
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`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
` OBLON McCLELLAND MAIER & NEUSTADT
` Attorney for Petitioner
` 1940 Duke Street
` Alexandria, Virginia 22314
` BY: Thomas Fisher, ESQ.
`
`
` FISH & RICHARDSON
` Attorney for Patent Owner
` 111 Congress Avenue
` Austin, Texas 78701
` BY: David Morris, ESQ.
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` February 20, 2015
` 8:37 a.m.
`
` Deposition of ALAN BALL, held at the
`offices of Fish & Richardson, P.C., 111
`Congress Avenue, Suite 810, Austin, Texas,
`pursuant to Agreement before Micheal A.
`Johnson, a Registered Merit Reporter,
`Certified Realtime Reporter, and Notary Public
`of the State of Texas.
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`Page 4
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` ALAN BALL
`called as a witness, having been duly sworn by
`a Notary Public, was examined and testified as
`follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Ball.
` A. Hi.
` Q. Could you please state your name
`for the record.
` A. Alan Ball.
` Q. And your address?
` A. 50 Francesca Avenue, Somerville,
`Massachusetts 02144.
` Q. Do you have any prior deposition
`experience?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When?
` A. The most recent one was about three
`weeks ago.
` Q. What case was that in?
` A. Dyson v Euro-Pro.
` Q. What was the last --
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`Page 5
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. Euro-Pro.
` Q. Euro-Pro. What's the technology
`involved in that?
` A. Vacuum cleaners.
` Q. Which side are you representing
`or --
` A. I was hired by Euro-Pro to provide
`an expert opinion on a design patent.
` Q. Design patent. What issues did you
`testify about?
` A. A number of issues. It's a
`complicated case.
` Q. What's the technology? You said, I
`think, vacuum cleaners.
` Did you testify both with respect to
`infringement and validity or both or which?
` A. I'm not sure what I'm at liberty to
`discuss.
` Q. I don't want the substance of
`anything, just the issues. Are you an
`infringement expert? Are you a validity
`expert? Are you a damages expert?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
`BY MR. FISHER:
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`2
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 2
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 6
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` Q. I can move on. That's fine. Other
`than the -- what's the status of that case?
` A. It's ongoing.
` Q. What court is it in?
` A. I don't recall.
` THE REPORTER: I need to take a
`quick break.
` (Recess Taken From 8:38 a.m. To
`8:40 a.m.)
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. So prior to the Dyson case, how
`many times have you been deposed?
` A. Twice.
` Q. What cases.
` A. Emerson Electric versus Anaheim
`Manufacturing and Ethicon versus Covidien.
` Q. What issues did you testify on in
`the Emerson case?
` A. The -- there were issues of trade
`dress infringement and design patent
`infringement.
` Q. What side were you on?
` A. I was working for the counsel
`representing Anaheim and Anaheim was the
`
`Page 8
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. If you want to put it that way.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Did your side win a summary
`judgment?
` A. The summary judgment was against
`Ethicon.
` Q. And you represented Ethicon?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What was the outcome of the
`Samsung/Apple case in the UK?
` A. The Samsung/Apple case was -- they
`found that there was no infringement and the
`judge agreed with my testimony.
` Q. So you represented Apple?
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Was that a design patent case?
` A. No.
` Q. Was it a patent case?
` A. It was something called a
`registered community design. It's the
`European version of a design patent.
` Q. Have you ever served as an expert
`in a matter that involved a utility patent?
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`Page 7
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`defendant.
` Q. And what issues did you testify on
`in the Ethicon case?
` A. It was a design patent case.
` Q. Infringement or validity or --
` A. Yes, both of those.
` Q. In your CV it states that the --
`Ethicon case and it was a summary judgment.
`What was the basis of the summary judgment
`decision?
` A. The summary judgment, I don't know
`if I can accurately capture it all, but I
`believe that they found that some of the -- I
`believe that they found that there was a
`functionality within the design patent and
`they -- the judge said that they would -- it
`was invalid and I guess he invalidated the
`patent. I'm not quite sure the right
`terminology. And I also believe there was a
`statement in his judgment about
`noninfringement, which -- but I don't recall
`all of the details in the judgment. The case
`is on appeal.
` Q. So your side lost.
`
`Page 9
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. I'm sorry. I didn't hear you.
` Q. Have you ever served as an expert
`in a matter that involved a utility patent?
` A. Oh, yes, I have.
` Q. Which one?
` A. I served as an expert in a case
`between Nokia and HTC.
` Q. And that was all just -- all
`utility patents?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What side did you represent?
` A. I represented HTC. The counsel
`that represented HTC hired me.
` Q. What issues did you give opinions
`on?
` A. I'm trying to remember. Do you
`have my resume? I'd like to look at that. It
`will help refresh my memory on some of these.
` Q. Sure.
` MR. MORRIS: It's Exhibit 2013.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. I'm going to hand you what's been
`marked in the IPRs as Exhibit 2013. It's your
`CV. Is that a current CV of yours?
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`3
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 3
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 10
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. When did you begin working on the
`Dyson case?
` A. I'm sorry. What was that?
` Q. When did you begin working on the
`Dyson case?
` A. I believe it was towards the end of
`summer. I'm not sure the exact date, but
`August time frame, I believe.
` Q. In your work as an expert witness
`in these patent litigations, has a motion ever
`been filed to exclude your testimony?
` A. Yes.
` Q. In which matters?
` A. The Ethicon Endo -- excuse me, I
`misspoke. The Emerson Electric v Anaheim
`case.
` Q. And what was the result of that
`motion?
` A. It was denied.
` Q. What position did the other side
`take in seeking to exclude your testimony?
` A. They said I had not designed a
`garbage disposal.
`
`Page 12
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`will attempt to clarify it. If you answer the
`question, I will understand that you
`understood the question.
` A. Okay.
` Q. What did you do to prepare for your
`deposition?
` A. I reviewed my declaration and I
`reviewed the references that I used when I
`wrote the declaration, and I met with
`Mr. Morris and Mr. Hoffman yesterday afternoon
`to review some of that with them.
` Q. How long did you meet?
` A. I arrived here at the office at
`11:30. I left at 5. During that time we ate
`lunch, which was probably 45 minutes. They
`were in and out of the room. So probably
`three or four hours.
` Q. About half a day. Was anyone else
`present?
` A. The secretary came in with the
`lunch, but no.
` Q. Did you make any phone calls?
` A. I made one phone call, yes.
` Q. With respect to this matter?
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`Page 11
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` Q. Had you?
` A. I've designed all sorts of kitchen
`products that macerate food. I haven't
`designed a garbage disposal.
` Q. Any other motions to exclude your
`testimony?
` A. No.
` Q. So just setting forth the rules --
`you've been through this before. I'm going to
`ask you a series of questions and I would like
`you to give answers to those questions. If
`you don't understand the question, please ask
`me to clarify it and I will attempt to do so.
` We'll take a break every hour. Do
`not take a break -- we will not take a break
`while there's a question pending. So if you
`want to take a break, wrap up and then we'll
`take a break. Fair enough?
` A. Sounds good.
` Q. And I will understand that if you
`answer the question, that you understood the
`question. Is that fair? You understand what
`I'm saying there? If you don't understand my
`question, please ask for clarification and I
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`Page 13
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. It was a personal matter.
` Q. How long did you spend preparing
`for the deposition, including the review you
`did?
` A. One day.
` Q. Other than Mr. Morris and
`Mr. Hoffman, did you speak with anyone else
`about your deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review any materials that
`are not identified in your declaration?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you review the transcript of
`Mr. Wilens' deposition?
` A. No.
` Q. Did you speak to Mr. Wilens?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you ever spoke to Mr. Wilens?
` A. No.
` Q. I would like to just quickly go
`through your background, starting with your
`education after high school. What is a
`bachelor's of industrial design, just very
`generally?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`4
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 4
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 14
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. It's a bachelor's degree that
`Syracuse University gave me after a five-year
`course of study in industrial design.
` Q. It's a five-year program?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. And does it include any engineering
`coursework?
` A. Yes, it does.
` Q. What types?
` A. There are basic courses like
`calculus that I took. There are specific
`manufacturing processes courses that I took.
`There are other introductory engineering
`courses that I took regarding analysis.
`There's drafting courses that I took. It's --
`one of the three legs of the tripod that forms
`industrial design is the technical leg.
` Q. What are the other two legs?
` A. There's an aesthetic leg and there
`is something we call human factors which is --
`includes ergonomics and psychology, marketing,
`things like that, understanding the person
`you're designing the product for.
` Q. What school is the degree issued
`
`Page 16
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`human computer interaction?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. I wouldn't say specifically, no.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. So back to my earlier question. I
`asked if you had taken any coursework in
`graphical user interface. What I'm talking
`more specifically about is human computer
`interaction.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Had you taken any coursework in
`human computer interaction?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. Yes.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. And which courses? Would that be
`the graphics design course or the --
` A. I recall we took -- there was a
`class offered, computer graphics. I recall
`that throughout my thesis coursework there
`were projects that revolved around interacting
`with computers. So the understanding that
`there is a user interface on a computer
`product that needed to be considered as part
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`Page 15
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`from? Is it in the school of engineering --
` A. It's in the school of visual and
`performing arts.
` Q. Is any of the coursework out of the
`school of engineering?
` A. I believe the courses that I
`referenced were part of the engineering
`department.
` Q. Did you take any coursework on
`graphical user interface design?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What types of courses were those?
` A. There were basic graphic design
`courses that I took, and I also took courses
`as part of an information studies minor that
`talked about designing interfaces, either
`paper-based, like surveys, or perhaps
`on-screen. At the time I got my degree, user
`interface design was not as it is now. It was
`an embryonic --
` Q. What year was that?
` A. -- study. 1987 I graduated.
` Q. That's a good year. The graphics
`design course, did that cover specifically
`
`Page 17
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`of the design program within our coursework
`was present throughout the entire program.
` Q. What was your thesis in?
` A. I designed a CNC hobby mill for
`home hobbyists to basically -- it was a
`precursor to a 3D printer.
` Q. CNC or C --
` A. CNC.
` Q. What's that stand for?
` A. Computer numerical control.
` Q. Just give me a 30-second
`description of a CNC hobby mill.
` A. Well, you may be familiar with a
`Bridgeport mill. It's a machine that has a
`rotating cutter and that rotating cutter can
`go up and down in a Z axis. It also has a
`fixture in a component that can go front to
`back and right to left, X and Y. And by
`controlling that with a computer, you can
`basically carve any shape you want out of a
`block of material. It's the way injection
`molds are cut. And my thesis project was
`taking the technology that was used in
`industry and bringing it into a consumer
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`5
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 5
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 18
`
` BALL - 2/20/15
`product that a home hobbyist could use in a
`shop.
` Q. Interesting. It's the inverse of a
`3D printer because you're removing materials.
` A. It's subtractive rather than
`additive.
` Q. Was it ever commercialized?
` A. No, it was just my thesis project.
` Q. Did you ever try to commercialize
`it or get interest in it?
` A. I have -- yes. I have a 3D mill at
`home now in my studio that I use to cut models
`with.
` Q. Back to the coursework. Did you
`take any coursework on liquid crystal display
`design?
` A. Not specifically.
` Q. Any electronic devices?
` A. Excuse me?
` Q. Any coursework on electronic
`devices?
` A. All of the product design courses
`involved products that may have electronics in
`it. There wasn't a specific course.
`
`Page 20
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. I do remember we used something
`called HyperCard.
` Q. Is that a modeling language?
` A. Can you define what you mean by a
`modeling language?
` Q. I'm just trying to get an
`understanding of what type of software. It
`wasn't Fortran, correct?
` A. I think we -- the computer graphics
`might have been some Fortran. But HyperCard
`was not Fortran; it was a graphical user
`interface programming language. It ran on
`Mac. We used that a lot to mock up user
`interfaces.
` Q. For what type of applications?
` A. Whatever project you happened to be
`working on.
` Q. What type of projects do you recall
`working on?
` A. A 3D milling machine.
` Q. So you mocked up a user interface
`using HyperCard to drive the milling machine?
` A. I believe I did.
` Q. But you don't recall?
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`Page 19
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` Q. I'm talking about the components
`themselves, design of an electronic component.
` A. As in like an electrical engineer
`would design?
` Q. Yes.
` A. No.
` Q. Any coursework in software?
` A. Yeah.
` Q. What type?
` A. I took a basic programming course.
`There was programming in the computer graphics
`course.
` Q. What language?
` A. I don't recall. There were
`other -- could you repeat the question?
` Q. I was just trying to get an
`understanding of whether you took any
`coursework in software.
` A. Right. There was some software
`that was involved in some of the studio
`courses that I took.
` Q. Did they teach you how to program?
` A. There was some programming taught.
` Q. Do you know what language?
`
`Page 21
`
` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. I don't recall all of the details.
` Q. In your CV there on page 2 -- can
`we just work through quickly your experience
`beginning in 1987? Really what I'm looking
`for is -- let's just go one by one what your
`position was and what your general job
`description was. So Group Four Design, Inc.,
`what did you do there?
` A. What page are you looking at?
` Q. Page 2 --
` A. Okay.
` Q. -- above "Education."
` A. And what was the question?
` Q. What was your general job
`description and position at Group Four Design,
`Inc.?
` A. I was a junior designer.
` Q. What type of products?
` A. Group Four was a design consulting
`firm. So we worked on a large range -- or a
`lot of diverse products. While there, I
`worked on medical products like a pH analyzer.
`I worked on consumer products like paper
`shredders and pencil sharpeners. I worked on
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`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`6
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 6
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 22
`
` BALL - 2/20/15
`some packaging design for board games. I
`worked on cash registers for -- like
`electronic cash registers or retail checkout
`systems. I worked on a magnetic tape rewind
`conditioning apparatus in the -- used in the
`computer industry.
` Q. Any device --
` A. Packaging design.
` Q. I'm sorry.
` A. We designed some calculators. I
`can't remember all the different things we
`designed.
` Q. Any device include -- any of the
`devices that you designed include a graphical
`user interface?
` A. Sure.
` Q. Any of the devices you designed
`include an LCD display?
` A. I think some of the calculators we
`designed did.
` Q. All right. Let's move to Design
`Continuum. Again, just high level, what was
`your position there?
` A. May I -- I just thought of -- we
`
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` Q. What about at Herbst Lazar Bell?
` A. I worked at Herbst Lazar Bell as a
`senior designer. And, again, a variety of
`projects.
` Q. Is that typical in the product
`design field that you work on a variety of
`products like that?
` A. If you're a consultant.
` Q. And in 1992 you went to Altitude,
`Inc.?
` A. I founded Altitude, Inc., in 1992.
` Q. And what was Altitude?
` A. A product design consulting firm.
` Q. Similar to the work you had been
`doing in the past.
` A. Yes.
` Q. What types of products did Altitude
`work on? Anything targeted or --
` A. I didn't catch the last half of
`your question.
` Q. What types of products did
`Altitude, Inc., design?
` A. A similar variety of products:
`Medical products, industrial products,
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`also designed telephones.
` Q. What type of telephones?
` A. Home cordless telephones.
` Q. With LCD displays?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And you worked on all those
`different types of products in a one-year
`period?
` A. It was about a year and a half and,
`yes, we -- many projects went through.
`Very -- it was very intense.
` Q. And your degree in industrial
`design gave you the background to work on all
`those different types of products.
` A. Yes, and the experience I brought.
` Q. Let's -- again, high level, let's
`go to Design Continuum. What did you do
`there?
` A. I was hired as a staff designer,
`and I continued to do consulting product
`design.
` Q. A whole variety of products again?
` A. A very large swath of products,
`yes.
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`consumer products, toy products, sporting good
`products, computer products.
` Q. Any outdoor products?
` A. Sure.
` Q. What types?
` A. Let's see. We did work for DeWalt
`for a construction site, power tools. We did
`work for Black & Decker. It involved pet
`products. I did a lot of work for a company
`called Symbol Technologies that involved, you
`know, wearable computers and data terminals
`and barcode scanners.
` Q. What is a pet product?
` A. We designed a retractable leash
`combined with a flashlight for Black & Decker.
`It's called LeashLight.
` Q. Tell me about the wearable devices
`you designed for Symbol Techs.
` A. Symbol Technologies?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Well, there are many projects we
`worked on for Symbol Technologies over the
`time that we worked for them, and a lot of
`them involved terminals that were used by
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`7
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 7
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 26
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`somebody in a logistics or industrial
`environment to manage manifests or databases
`related to the work they were doing.
` One specific one I remember
`involved designing a terminal that would be
`used by a UPS employee to manage packages and
`it would have to be used outside or -- and
`also in a warehouse environment. And I
`remember a lot of the products we designed for
`them had to be very rugged and they had to
`accommodate a military specification for
`environmental conditions.
` In addition to those kinds of
`products, we also designed retail barcode
`scanners and terminals that would be used less
`outdoors but -- but still there are situations
`where perhaps in an outdoor part of Home Depot
`or something like that they would have a
`weatherized scanner or terminal.
` And there was also a lot of focus
`on designing the products so they can be
`easily held or even worn to reduce fatigue and
`make them easier for the operator to operate.
` Q. Worn like a watch or worn on a
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. I believe this one was an
`off-the-shelf, although, if I remember
`correctly, a lot of the vendors then would
`build LCDs for you. They had specific
`designs, but then they would build them for
`you if you had a little change you wanted to
`make or you had a different volume or
`something. So it was a little of both.
` Q. Did you request the LCD vendor to
`make any modifications to the display because
`it was going to be used outdoors?
` A. We were constantly looking for LCDs
`that were readable outside. At that time it
`was very difficult to read an LCD outside in
`the sun.
` Q. Did you find one?
` A. I don't think we really found one
`that was satisfactory. As much as we'd like,
`the technology just wasn't there.
` Q. So what did you use in the UPS
`device?
` A. The best one we could get.
` Q. Did the UPS device include a
`keypad?
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` BALL - 2/20/15
`belt?
` A. Both.
` Q. Both.
` A. And others.
` Q. What year did you design the UPS
`device?
` A. I don't recall exactly. I couldn't
`give you an exact date.
` Q. Was it in the early 1990s?
` A. I would guess around the mid 1990s.
` Q. Did the device include an LCD
`display?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What type?
` A. It was a reflective LCD display.
` Q. Was it a special LCD display?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. I don't know -- I mean, I think all
`LCD displays in that time period were fairly
`special. It was a fairly new technology.
`What do you mean by "special"? Do you mean
`custom or off the shelf.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Was it custom or off the shelf?
`
`Page 29
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. There were embodiments that had a
`keypad and there were embodiments that had no
`keypad and a stylus.
` Q. What did the keypad look like?
` A. I'm trying to remember. I believe
`it was a full alphanumeric keypad and they
`were rubberized keys. It was very attractive.
` Q. I believe you. Could I just get
`you to quickly give me a narrative as to what
`happened with Altitude, Inc., did you shut it
`down, and then through your other positions
`and up to where you are today, high level.
`Doesn't have to be detailed.
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. Okay. Well, I sold my interest in
`Altitude to my business partner, Brian Matt,
`and I took a job to open an east coast office
`of a design firm called Ziba Design.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. And what is Shinola?
` A. That was an invention company that
`we started to market some of the designs that
`we had developed on our own.
` Q. At Altitude?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`8
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 8
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 30
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. Yeah, it -- it was separate from
`Altitude, but it was Brian and myself and one
`other person.
` Q. What types of inventions did you
`market?
` A. Well, primarily it was the
`LeashLight for Black & Decker. There were a
`few other things that didn't get very far.
` Q. Any handheld devices?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What types?
` A. LeashLight, a leash -- dog leash.
` Q. Any handheld electronic devices?
` A. I wouldn't call the LeashLight
`electronic. It had a battery and a
`flashlight. There were no other products that
`we had in Shinola that had electronics.
` Q. Other than the UPS device and the
`retail device, had you designed any other
`handheld electronic devices that included an
`LCD display?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. Yes.
`BY MR. FISHER:
`
`Page 32
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. Margit Manufacturing is a --
`similar to Shinola. It's an invention company
`that I started to market a product I invented.
` Q. What product is that?
` A. Clip clamps. They're plastic hobby
`or woodworking clamps.
` Q. Do you have a patent on this?
` A. Yes. Right now, no. No, I do not.
` Q. An application?
` A. I had a provisional patent and did
`not proceed with the utility patent.
` Q. Any other inventions Margit is
`promoting?
` A. I would rather not talk about that.
` Q. Free marketing opportunity.
` A. I'm sorry?
` Q. This was a free marketing
`opportunity.
` A. Oh, okay.
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. It's fine.
` A. There's some confidential things
`that we're working on --
`
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` Q. Which?
` A. Do you have a copy of my
`declaration? Because I think I explain some
`of this in the declaration. I would like to
`look at it to refresh my memory.
` Q. We'll go through the dec later. I
`just want to get through your background here.
`I'm trying to get an idea of what you did and
`when, so we can move on and come back to that.
` What is your current position?
` A. I am the president of Alan Ball
`Industrial Design, Incorporated. It's a
`design consulting firm. I currently serve a
`number of clients designing products, and I've
`been doing that since 2000.
` Q. 2002?
` A. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry, 2002, yes.
` Q. Do you have any employees?
` A. Currently, no.
` Q. Are you retained job by job or do
`you have relationships with companies?
` A. Both.
` Q. Both. What is Margit Manufacturing
`or Margit?
`
`Page 33
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` Q. Yeah, we can't do that.
` A. -- but it's not -- I don't think it
`would be of interest to you.
` Q. What types of products are you
`designing at Alan Ball?
` A. ABID?
` Q. Yeah. What's the range?
` A. Well, I have designed many
`different kinds of products in the last -- in
`the years I have worked as ABID, including
`computer products, handheld electronic
`products, a lot of consumer products used in
`the home, a lot of products that would be used
`in the kitchen, a lot of cleaning products. I
`also do a lot of industrial products that
`might be used in a laboratory or an analytical
`environment as well as medical products that
`are used in doctors' offices and hospitals.
`Some of the products are large and sit on
`tables; other products are smaller and held on
`the body or in the hand.
` Q. When you design a product, do you
`get involved at all in the electronics that go
`inside the product?
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`9
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1033, pg. 9
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00438
`
`

`

`Page 34
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` A. Sure.
` Q. In what way?
` A. Well, I have to accommodate those
`electronics in the product and I have to be
`concerned with integrating them into the
`product in such a fashion that they're
`functional and they work harmoniously with the
`overall design of the product. If there's a
`user interface involved, I have to design that
`user interface in such a way that it makes the
`product easy to use, intuitive, because it's a
`part of the overall design.
` Q. I guess what I'm trying to get an
`understanding of is you're doing a product
`design, there are also engineers doing the
`circuit design, there are also software
`engineers doing the software, writing the
`code.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. How does that all come together and
`where are --
` A. I orchestrate that.
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
`BY MR. FISHER:
`
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` BALL - 2/20/15
` Q. And other people are responsible
`for the circuit design and things like that,
`so you work with them to say if you build this
`circuit, we can package it this way, do a
`thermal analysis, whatever, and everybody's
`happy.
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Is that -- I'm just trying to get
`an idea of how this whole -- what role you
`serve in that product design.
` A. I'm su