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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`SkyHawke Technologies, §
`LLC, §
` §
` Petitioner § Case IPR 2014-00437
` § Case IPR 2014-00438
`VS. §
` §
`L&H Concepts, Inc., § Patent 5,779,566
` §
` Patent Owner §
`______________________ §
`
` DEPOSITION OF PETER S. WILENS
` Austin, Texas
` Wednesday, February 18, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`MICHEAL A. JOHNSON, RMR, CRR
`JOB NO. 90457
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 1
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

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`Page 2
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`Page 3
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
` OBLON McCLELLAND MAIER & NEUSTADT
` Attorney for Petitioner
` 1940 Duke Street
` Alexandria, Virginia 22314
` BY: Thomas Fisher, ESQ.
`
` FISH & RICHARDSON
` Attorney for Patent Owner
` 111 Congress Avenue
` Austin, Texas 78701
` BY: David Morris, ESQ.
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` February 18, 2015
` 8:59 a.m.
`
` Deposition of PETER S. WILENS, held at the
`offices of Fish & Richardson, 111
`Congress Avenue, Suite 810, Austin, Texas,
`pursuant to Agreement before Micheal A.
`Johnson, a Registered Merit Reporter,
`Certified Realtime Reporter, and Notary Public
`of the State of Texas.
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` P R O C E E D I N G S
` PETER S. WILENS
`called as a witness, having been duly sworn by
`a Notary Public, was examined and testified as
`follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Good morning.
` A. Good morning.
` Q. Can you please state your name for
`the record.
` A. Peter Stephen Wilens.
` Q. And give me your address, please.
` A. 2331 Cheswick Drive, Troy, Michigan
`48084.
` Q. Are you being represented by
`counsel today?
` A. I am.
` Q. Have you retained Fish & Richardson
`to represent you?
` A. I have.
` Q. Do you have any prior deposition
`experience?
` A. One time.
`
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` Q. And when was that?
` A. That was right around the
`year 2000.
` Q. What were the circumstances then?
` A. It was a -- between -- the
`company -- I worked for Firepond at that
`point, and it was between Firepond and General
`Motors. They had a contractual dispute and I
`was called in, you know, as part of that
`dispute.
` Q. You were a fact witness?
` A. I was.
` Q. Was it a litigation?
` A. It was a litigation.
` Q. Did it relate to patents in any
`way?
` A. No.
` Q. What issues did you testify about?
` A. The -- it was collecting background
`information. It was basically about whether
`the contract was rightfully terminated.
`Essentially Firepond terminated the contract
`with GM and so GM basically was asking
`questions about the circumstances of the
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`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 2
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

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`Page 6
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`termination and what led up to the termination
`of the contract. So they were asking, you
`know, for factual information related to that.
` Q. And what was the outcome?
` A. The outcome --
` Q. Just high level.
` A. GM wrote a big check to Firepond.
` Q. All right. So you know the general
`framework of the deposition. I'm going to ask
`a series of questions. You need to give
`counsel time to object and then give me clear
`answers. The court reporter is taking
`everything down, so you have to make sure you
`verbalize everything. Nods and waves of the
`hands don't show up. You understand that?
` A. I do understand that.
` Q. And I would ask if you don't
`understand a question, ask me for
`clarification and I'll try to give you a
`better question. Okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. But if you do answer, I will
`understand that to mean that you understood
`the question and that that was your answer.
`
`Page 8
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` Q. Vanden Heuvel?
` A. Yeah. Osamu and Palmer.
` Q. Anything else?
` A. The declarations.
` Q. Whose declarations?
` A. The Peter Wilens declaration.
` Q. Just yours?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who?
` A. I met with David Morris and David
`Hoffman.
` Q. When was that?
` A. Yesterday.
` Q. For how long?
` A. A couple of hours.
` Q. Any conversations on the phone
`beforehand?
` A. We had conversations, you know,
`beforehand, yes.
` Q. When would that have been?
` A. Primarily, you know, a few months
`ago. The majority a couple of months ago.
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` A. I understand.
` Q. We can take a break whenever you
`want. I just ask that we not take a break
`when there's a question pending.
` A. Okay.
` Q. I will try to take a break about
`every hour or so.
` (Discussion Off The Record.)
` MR. MORRIS: Let's go off the
`record for a moment.
` (Recess Taken From 9:02 a.m. To
`9:03 a.m.)
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. What did you do to prepare for your
`deposition today?
` A. I, you know, essentially just
`looked over the declarations and some of the
`other documents just brief -- quickly briefed
`over, you know, some of the items that were
`listed in the declaration.
` Q. What documents did you review?
` A. Some of the patents.
` Q. Which?
` A. The Vanden -- Vander --
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`Page 9
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` Q. Before you prepared your
`declaration or after?
` A. This is before I, you know,
`prepared -- let's see. Before I actually put
`my declaration together. It was sort of in --
`you know, right around that time frame.
` Q. And nothing in between the time --
` A. A call here, a call there.
` Q. Did you speak with anyone else
`about your deposition?
` A. Did I speak with anybody else? My
`wife knows that I'm here for that reason, so I
`had to explain to my wife why I was out of
`town for two days. I don't think she would
`appreciate not knowing.
` Q. What about Mr. Ball?
` A. Mister --
` Q. Ball. Do you know Mr. Ball?
` A. I don't know Mr. Ball.
` Q. Other than what you've just stated,
`have you done anything else to prepare for
`your deposition?
` A. Not that -- materially, you know, I
`would say -- I had -- well, I've looked at all
`
`3 (Pages 6 to 9)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 3
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`those documents within the declaration, so if
`you include, you know, the other documents
`above and beyond the patents, I've looked at
`those. I've scanned through those.
` Q. The ones that are listed in your
`declaration.
` A. The ones that are listed in the
`declaration, that's correct.
` Q. Did you review the '566 patent
`prior to this deposition?
` A. Briefly, yes. I didn't read it
`word for word.
` Q. Can you give me a brief summary of
`your background after high school, educational
`background.
` A. Sure. I went to the University of
`Michigan and picked up a degree in computer
`science and, you know, completed that degree.
`And later picked up -- at night school, picked
`up an MBA in finance from Wayne State
`University.
` Q. When did you get your bachelor's
`degree from University of Michigan?
` A. Would have been 1977.
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`Page 12
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`about six years. And then, you know, from
`there, you know, essentially did some
`independent things, jumped to -- you know, I
`worked for a number of different companies,
`but after that went to FTD, you know, worked
`for FTD for a while as their corporate
`planner. They were big into IT.
` Jumped from there to EDS/AT
`Kearney, you know, once again in IT
`consulting. Actually did a little bit of
`automotive consulting. Went from there to
`Firepond, which was a software startup in
`software configuration software.
` After Firepond started with a
`number of other guys, Cellium Group, which was
`a consulting firm, IT consulting firm, did
`that for about six years. And then, you know,
`from there jumped to -- tell you when you
`think through -- I'm 59, so it's just a lot of
`different jumps. But I went to work for Henry
`Ford -- well, actually it was Computer Science
`Corporation for about three years, and then,
`you know, essentially jumped from there, you
`know, to sort of what I'm doing today, sort
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` Q. And when did you get your MBA?
` A. I believe it was like '82 -- you
`know, '81, '82, in that time frame.
` Q. No other formal education?
` A. In terms of degrees -- a lot of
`seminars, you know, that were taught by the
`consulting firms that I worked for, you know,
`a number of those, but in terms of additional
`degrees, no.
` Q. No other formal coursework at a
`university level?
` A. No.
` Q. All right. Can you walk me through
`your professional career after graduating from
`University of Michigan.
` A. Sure. Do you want --
` Q. It doesn't have to be very
`detailed.
` A. Okay. Sort of high level?
` Q. High level.
` A. Yeah. I worked for GM for about
`six years in the IT department as a developer.
`Jumped to PricewaterhouseCoopers, you know, in
`their IT consulting division, was there for
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`of -- actually, I'm -- Compuware was the next
`one, and then right now I'm doing contracting
`work with a group called the Stowe Group.
` Q. I'm sorry, you -- what did you say
`about X one?
` A. X one?
` Q. I didn't catch -- hold on a second.
`I'm copy X one --
` A. Copy X --
` Q. I didn't understand what you said
`about what you're doing currently.
` A. Currently -- okay. Yeah. So
`basically I'm working as a contractor for the
`Stowe Group.
` Q. For the Stowe Group. Who is the
`Stowe Group?
` A. They're a healthcare consulting
`company out of Boston, Massachusetts.
` Q. And when did you begin there?
` A. It was -- it would've been
`October 22nd, I believe it was, of last year.
` Q. 2014?
` A. Yeah.
` Q. Have you had similar positions
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`4 (Pages 10 to 13)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 4
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`throughout your professional career?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. What do you do? What is your --
`what have your jobs been?
` A. It's IT. I'm an IT guy. I mean,
`if you had to go through and look at my
`background, at a very summary level, I've been
`in IT virtually all of my life.
` Now, I've worked in two or three
`different industries: I've worked in the
`software industry, you know, I -- if you had
`to pick a primary industry, software would be,
`you know, a big one, health care would be
`another one and automotive would be another
`one. Now, I've done spatterings in other
`industries, but if you had to classify me, it
`would be an IT person who has worked in those
`three areas.
` Q. Do you do any software development?
` A. Most -- a lot of my projects -- at
`this point in my life I don't write software.
`I had software where we either developed
`software -- custom developed software or we
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` Q. Did you ever do software
`development yourself?
` A. I did.
` Q. What type?
` A. At General Motors, you know,
`essentially it involved a lot of basically
`custom design work for logistical systems,
`distribution systems. So it was -- you know,
`that's where I did a lot. At Pricewaterhouse
`it was warehouse systems, you know, a number
`of warehouse systems, some defense logistic
`agency systems. Just thinking beyond Price
`Waters -- Pricewaterhouse is probably where I
`stopped most of my development. But it --
`basically, business systems, a lot of business
`systems if you had to categorize it.
` Q. Did you develop any graphical user
`interfaces?
` A. Just by definition, you know, when
`you're developing those systems, you're --
`often you're developing screens at those
`times. So I would say every stage, yes, you
`know, you were always -- you had a batch
`process, but you always had screens to enter
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`install over-the-counter packages called COTS.
`So, yes, I am involved in software
`development.
` Q. What type of software development?
` A. Well, this -- I mean, software
`development -- well, for the software
`companies, for example, we have to add new
`features to the current products that we have.
`When I was working for Compuware, for example,
`it's -- was -- the software did not meet the
`full needs of the customer, yet in the
`contract form it was promised and they knew
`that they were going to have to invest in
`certain new modules so I would oversee the
`development of certain software modules, you
`know, until they were properly implemented and
`see it -- you know, implement it at the
`customer sites. So that sort of -- at a
`manager level, but I didn't actually develop
`the software. But I -- you know, that's not
`to say I didn't look -- I look it over very
`carefully, make sure it's tested very
`carefully, you know, make sure that it meets
`the needs of the customer.
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`Page 17
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`data.
` Q. Were these like database screens?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. When you say -- when you say
`"database screens," can you clarify?
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Well, you tell me. Were these
`menu-based screens? Were they graphical
`screens? Were they Windows-based screens?
` A. Yeah, they weren't -- okay. These
`were -- yeah, these weren't what you would
`think of as like graphical -- GUIs, for
`instance. GUIs didn't exist back then, you
`know. It would have been nice had they
`existed. They were basically static field
`entry screens where you would have a screen
`and you would actually have to enter data into
`each of the screens.
` Q. Were they typically menu-driven
`systems?
` A. There were a number of menu -- you
`had menus that would -- you would select a
`choice and it would take you to a screen. So
`that's -- that was very common.
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`5 (Pages 14 to 17)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 5
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
`Page 18
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` Q. Other than the '566 patent, are you
`a named inventor on any other patents?
` A. I am.
` Q. Which? How many?
` A. One.
` Q. And what is that?
` A. It's -- I don't know the number of
`the patent, but it's a social networking
`patent.
` Q. And when did you file for that?
` A. That would have been right
`around -- I think it was right around 2005 or
`something like that.
` Q. Do you know when it issued?
` A. I don't. It took a few years,
`but...
` Q. Who's the assignee of that?
` A. I'm sorry. Could you repeat the --
` Q. Do you own the patent?
` A. I sold the patent.
` Q. Who did you sell it to?
` A. That's a very good question. I
`know this is -- it's some company in the
`Cayman Islands that has some -- you know, some
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`Page 20
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. If you don't want to answer, that's
`fine.
` A. I prefer not to answer that.
` Q. Were you seeking to sell it or did
`they reach out to you?
` A. They reached out to me.
` Q. Have you filed for any other patent
`applications that did not issue the patents?
` A. No.
` Q. So just the two?
` A. Just the two.
` Q. Was the social networking patent
`ever asserted in litigation before you sold
`it?
` A. No.
` Q. Do you know if it's been asserted
`since?
` A. No.
` Q. Can you give me just a -- kind of a
`high-level description of what the technology
`was?
` A. Yeah, it was --
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`nondescript name. It's like J&L, LLC. You
`could look it up. I don't recall the exact
`name.
` Q. Not L&H?
` A. No.
` Q. Have they commercialized it?
` A. I have no idea. I was very
`surprised -- I mean, I was surprised
`personally and am glad at that point that I
`had a, you know, patent lawyer who actually
`oversaw the execution of the payment because I
`had no -- you know, I thought it was a
`US-based company and it turns out to be a
`company I had never heard of before nor had he
`ever. He thought --
` MR. MORRIS: Let me instruct you
`not to reveal any confidential communications
`with your counsel.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` A. Anyhow.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. How much did you sell it for?
` MR. MORRIS: Scope. Objection,
`scope.
`
`Page 21
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. You can answer.
` A. Okay. It was -- the idea was to be
`able to match multiple people into a group,
`you know, for nonintimate relationships based
`on common backgrounds.
` Q. Do you have an understanding of
`what an inter partes review is?
` A. Very basic understanding.
` Q. You understand that this proceeding
`is an inter partes review?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And have you reviewed SkyHawke's
`petitions for inter partes review?
` A. I briefed them, so, yes, I did -- I
`did brief them.
` Q. But you understood what you were
`looking at, that it was a petition filed by
`SkyHawke --
` A. I did understand that.
` Q. -- in the patent office?
` A. I did understand that.
` Q. How many did you review?
` A. The ones listed in the declaration
`
`6 (Pages 18 to 21)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 6
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
`Page 22
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`are the ones that I reviewed.
` Q. You don't recall if there were two
`or three?
` A. I think there were two listed
`there, but -- it's the ones that were listed
`there.
` Q. When you read those IPR petitions,
`were you familiar with any of the prior art
`references that were cited in there?
` A. Okay. Now, when I say --
` MR. MORRIS: Objection to form.
` A. When I -- when I reviewed them, I
`must admit that I -- there was a lot in there
`that was, you know, sort of legalistic and
`would have taken a whole -- a lot of time to
`study it. So I must admit I know it maybe at
`100,000 feet. I did not, you know, look
`through every last, you know, point and try to
`understand every last point because a lot of
`it was sort of legalistic.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. You understand that there were a
`bunch of references referred to in those
`petitions.
`
`Page 24
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` A. Well, right now.
` Q. Before this lawsuit.
` A. There might have been attempts or
`starts at it, but I didn't really follow --
`you know, I can tell you that I really didn't
`follow it, so I can't really speak to whether
`anything became of it. I -- I mean, there
`were -- there were other lawyers that I spoke
`with, but I didn't follow -- I don't know how
`far it went.
` Q. You don't own the '566 patent,
`correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So you sold it?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Prior to selling it, were there any
`attempts at asserting it in a litigation?
` A. No.
` Q. Were there any attempts to license
`it?
` A. No.
` Q. So you had no activity with the
`patent before selling it in terms of
`enforcement or licensing or anything?
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` A. I knew that there were references,
`absolutely.
` Q. Like Palmer and Osamu and Vanden
`Heuvel.
` A. That I did know. Those three I did
`know.
` Q. Prior to reading those petitions,
`were you familiar with any of those
`references?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. I was not familiar with those three
`patents.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. What about some of the other art,
`Game Boy art?
` A. Oh, I -- I mean, I --
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. I was -- I mean, I knew of those,
`of course.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Has the '566 patent ever been
`asserted in litigation?
` A. By me, no.
` Q. By anyone.
`
`Page 25
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. There was -- there was one attempt.
`I think I sent it out at one time to -- I did
`figure since I wasn't using it I might see if
`there was anybody interested in potentially
`buying it. So I might have sent out just a
`letter saying -- I believe I sent it out to
`one or two potential companies and they --
`I -- honestly, I don't recall the companies.
`But they looked at it, then, you know, they
`said thanks, but we're not interested.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. And when was that?
` A. You want a time frame? Well, it
`was -- you know, honestly, it was -- I'm not
`going to be able to pin down a good time
`frame, but it was -- I mean, obviously it was
`before the time that I actually sold the
`patent and after it was issued, but it was --
`it was in between that time frame.
` Q. When did you sell the patent?
` A. I'm not going to be able to give
`you a good date on that one.
` MR. MORRIS: Scope.
`
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 7
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
`Page 26
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Within a couple years? Can you --
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
` A. It's been quite a few years, you
`know. I'm not going to -- I would be
`guessing.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Were you seeking to sell it or
`did --
` A. No, no, not -- you know, at that
`point, I wasn't. They came to me.
` Q. Who came to you?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
` A. The -- L&H -- actually it was Craig
`Loeher and his partner, who I believe are L&H
`Concepts.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Sorry. Craig -- I'm sorry, last
`name?
` A. Loeher. I don't know how to spell
`his last name.
` Q. And he's with L&H?
` A. I believe he is.
` Q. And he contacted you?
`
`Page 28
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` A. Not to my knowledge.
` Q. Did you retain any interest in the
`patent?
` A. No.
` Q. So you have no financial interest
`in the '566 patent?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Do you have any financial interest
`in the litigation against SkyHawke?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Have you assisted counsel with the
`litigation against SkyHawke?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
` A. I have spoken with them.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Specifically with respect to the
`litigation?
` MR. MORRIS: I'm going to object on
`the basis of the attorney-client privilege and
`instruct the witness to not disclose any
`privileged discussions.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. You can answer yes or no.
` A. No. I mean, I -- when I say no, am
`
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`Page 27
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` A. He did.
` MR. MORRIS: I'm going to object as
`to scope. What does this have to do with the
`testimony in the declaration, Tom?
` MR. FISHER: This is background in
`the witness as to bias. Just general
`background. He's the inventor.
` MR. MORRIS: So it doesn't have
`anything to do with the declaration testimony
`that you're cross examining?
` MR. FISHER: It's cross of him, of
`the witness.
` MR. MORRIS: Object as to scope.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Was it your understanding that the
`purchaser of your patent was going to
`commercialize the invention?
` A. That was their intent.
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
` A. That was their intent.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. They were going to make a product?
` A. Yeah.
` Q. And did they?
`
`Page 29
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`I --
` Q. You can answer yes or no that you
`have assisted with the litigation and respect
`the warning --
` A. I'm not answering --
` (Simultaneous Discussion
`Interrupted By Reporter.)
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Have you assisted L&H with the
`litigation against SkyHawke?
` A. Then I'm asserting client-attorney
`privilege.
` MR. MORRIS: My privilege assertion
`stands. To the extent that you -- but you can
`answer the question without getting into the
`details of any assistance you provided.
` THE WITNESS: Okay. Got it. Got
`it.
` A. I'm sorry, would you --
` MR. MORRIS: And I'll also just
`caution you to recognize this is the inter
`partes review and litigation is something
`different.
` A. Okay. So would you --
`
`8 (Pages 26 to 29)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 8
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
`Page 30
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Have you assisted L&H with the
`litigation matter as distinct from the IPR
`matter?
` A. I have had discussions with them.
` Q. I just want to go back for a
`second. Since selling your patent, are you
`aware of any attempts to enforce the patent
`other than the current litigation against
`SkyHawke?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. And that's where --
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
` A. It's very sketchy. I spoke with
`some other attorneys. I have no idea what
`they did with that.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Who were the other attorneys?
` A. It's been quite a while. They were
`Detroit based. I'm vague on the names.
` Q. And they represented L&H?
` A. They did.
` Q. And you -- do you recall reviewing
`any complaints or litigation papers?
`
`Page 32
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` A. I have not.
` Q. Do you have any familiarity with
`GPS-based range finders?
` A. I do.
` Q. What is that?
` A. Well, you know, my phone can
`actually do it nowadays. It provides the
`ability to determine -- actually I need some
`clarification. When you say "range finders,"
`with respect to golf?
` Q. For golf.
` A. Okay. Yeah, I am somewhat familiar
`with them.
` Q. Which ones?
` A. Don't know them by name, but I have
`used some before.
` Q. You don't recall which ones you've
`used?
` A. No, it's because it's, for
`instance, on like a cart and I don't know
`if -- you know, I don't think that I bothered
`to look at the name, but, you know, some carts
`are actually equipped that way.
` Q. Other than cart-based systems, have
`
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`Page 31
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` MR. MORRIS: I'm going to object on
`the basis of the attorney-client privilege and
`instruct the witness to not reveal any
`privileged communications.
` A. Okay. We spoke.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Do you know what the results of
`those attempts to enforce the patent is?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, scope.
` A. I don't know.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Are you aware of SkyHawke's
`products?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. Vaguely.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Which ones?
` A. I know -- I know that they have
`golf-related products. I mean, I -- frankly,
`I just went to the golf -- you know, the site
`to look, but I don't know the details. You
`know, I really -- I mean, I know what I saw on
`the front page.
` Q. So you have never used a SkyCaddie?
`
`Page 33
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`you ever used a handheld GPS-based range
`finder?
` A. For golf, no.
` Q. Ever used a phone app for that
`purpose?
` A. Not for golf. Actually not for
`golf.
` Q. The invention in your '566 patent,
`that's not a GPS-based range finder, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And the invention described in the
`'566 patent is not the idea of a handheld
`electronic golf device, is it?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` MR. FISHER: What's wrong with the
`question?
` MR. MORRIS: You're asking him to
`give an opinion on what a patent is for a
`legal document. Is stating what --
` MR. FISHER: I'm asking what his
`invention is. He's the inventor.
` MR. MORRIS: You said -- the
`invention as stated in the patent is what you
`said.
`
`9 (Pages 30 to 33)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`SkyHawke Technologies Exhibit 1032, pg. 9
`SkyHawke Technologies v. L&H Concepts
`IPR2014-00437
`
`

`
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` WILENS - 2/18/15V
` MR. FISHER: Correct. He's the
`inventor.
` MR. MORRIS: You're asking what he
`believes he invented?
` MR. FISHER: Yes.
` A. Yeah, it's -- okay.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Is the invention -- the invention
`that you came up with --
` A. Sure.
` Q. -- as set forth in the '566 patent,
`do you claim to have invented the idea of a
`handheld electronic golf device?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. Well, that's part of it.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Were you the first?
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. I -- with the characteristics, you
`know, that I described in the patent, I
`believe I was the first.
`BY MR. FISHER:
` Q. Were there handheld electronic golf
`devices prior to you filing for the patent?
`
`Page 36
`
` WILENS - 2/18/15V
`invented the idea of a handheld electronic
`scorecard for golf.
` MR. MORRIS: Objection, form.
` A. I am -- well, let's see. The
`form -- I would like to elaborate just a
`little bit on that. The patent goes broader
`than that. It's how -- it's not -- it's the
`whole how the device is put together that
`includes elements like that that I'm claiming
`in the patent. That -- and if you're asking
`me did I invent a scorekeeper, no. I mean,
`that's been well-established that there were
`handheld -- I mean, you can go to t