Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
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`
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`Paper No. 41
`Entered: May 18, 2015
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`- - - - - -
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - - -
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`APPLE, INC.,
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`Petitioner,
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`v.
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`VIRNETX, INC.,
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`Patent Owner.
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`
`
`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
`
`Technology Center 2400
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`Oral Hearing Held on Tuesday, April 28, 2015
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`
`Before: MICHAEL TIERNEY, STEPHEN SIU, and KARL
`
`EASTHOM, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Tuesday, April 28,
`
`2015, at 10:00 a.m., in Hearing Room A, taken at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
`
`
`571-272-7822
`
`
`
`Paper No. 41
`Entered: May 18, 2015
`
`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`- - - - - -
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`- - - - - -
`
`
`
`APPLE, INC.,
`
`Petitioner,
`
`v.
`
`VIRNETX, INC.,
`
`Patent Owner.
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`
`
`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
`
`Technology Center 2400
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`Oral Hearing Held on Tuesday, April 28, 2015
`
`- - - - - - -
`
`
`Before: MICHAEL TIERNEY, STEPHEN SIU, and KARL
`
`EASTHOM, Administrative Patent Judges.
`
`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Tuesday, April 28,
`
`2015, at 10:00 a.m., in Hearing Room A, taken at the U.S. Patent and
`Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street, Alexandria, Virginia.
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`JEFFREY P. KUSHAN, ESQ.
`THOMAS A. BROUGHAN, III, ESQ.
`HERMAN F. WEBLEY, ESQ.
`Sidley Austin LLP
`1501 K Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-736-8000
`
`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
`
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`JOSEPH E. PALYS, ESQ.
`NAVEEN MODI, ESQ.
`Paul Hastings LLP
`875 15th Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-551-17000
`
`JASON E. STACH, ESQ.
`Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow,
`Garrett & Dunner, LLP
`3500 Suntrust Plaza
`303 Peachtree Street, NE
`Atlanta, Georgia 30308-3263
`404-653-6400
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`(10:00 a. m. )
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: Wel co me to t he hearing toda y
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`for IP R2014 -00403, and joined with it 00483, and al so
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`consolidated for hearing purposes with IPR2014 -00404 and
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`which was joined with 00484 today.
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`We have both par ties here I see . B efore I begin
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`today, do the part ies have an y ques tions or co mments before
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`we begin with the argu ments toda y?
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`I will start with P etitioner.
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`MR. KUS HAN: No, Your Honor.
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: An ything we need to be awa re
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`of?
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`MR. PALYS: No , Your Honor.
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: Well , for toda y's hearing we
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`have an hour e ach side. We will go toda y with the P etitioner
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`starting, followed b y Patent Owner , rebuttal b y the P etitioner,
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`and we would all ow for a closing state ment should Patent
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`Owne r wish to re serve so me ti me f or that.
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`MR. PALYS: Ye s, Your Honor.
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: Thank you. Would the parties
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`like to reserve some ti me toda y jus t before we begin so I a m
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`awar e? Petitione r, would you like to reserve so me ti me toda y
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`for rebuttal?
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`MR. KUS HAN: Yes. I a m going to atte mpt to
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`reserve about 20 to 30 minutes dep ending on when I ter minate
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`the opening, if th at's all r ight.
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: 20 or 30 minutes. Oka y. And ,
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`Patent Owner , wh at would you like to do toda y?
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`MR. PALYS: Yo ur Honor, we req uest about 15
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`minutes.
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: 15. Sounds good. And then,
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`Petitioner, an y ti me you ar e r ead y, please proce ed t o the
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`podium.
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`MR. KUS HAN: Your Honor, ma y I approach to
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`provide de monstr atives?
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`JUDGE TI ER NEY: Please do.
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`MR. KUS HAN: Good mo rning, Your Honors. As
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`you explained, Ju dge Tierne y, the t wo proceedings i n each of
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`these proceedings are organized in two sets, 403 and 483 and
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`404 and 484.
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`If you go to slide 2, the 403/483 proceedings are
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`based on a refer e nce called Provino, which is Exhibit 1003,
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`and there a re grounds of both anticipation and obviousness.
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`And in the 404 an d 484 the pri mar y ref erence the re i s Kiuchi.
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`So what I would l ike to do is talk a bout some
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`co mmon issues re lating to clai m co nstruction and then dive
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`into Provino and then address Kiuc hi. Addresses an d then
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`address the ke y is sues.
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`Go to clai m 3 -- I ' m sorr y, slide 3 . This is the
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`independent claim in the patent , t he '274 patent, an d as you
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`can see it has thr ee steps r ecited. It is a method for accessing
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`a secure network address. The firs t step involves sending a
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`quer y message f r o m a first networ k device to a secu re do main
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`service, the quer y message requesting fro m the secur e do main
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`service a secure n etwork address fo r a second networ k device.
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`The se cond step is receiving at that first net work
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`device a response message fro m th e secure do main s ervice
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`which contains the secure netwo rk address for that second
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`network device. And then once th at's done, then it sends an
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`access r equest me ssage fro m the fir st network device to the
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`secure net work a ddress that it rec e ived using a VP N link or
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`virtual private co mmunication link.
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`As you can see fr o m the language of the clai m,
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`there ar e not a lot of constraints put on each of these
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`operational steps or the f eatures or ele ments that ar e addressed
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`in the m, and we will go into that i n so me detail.
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`Go to slide 10. S o one issue was t o deter mine
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`what the meaning of secur e net wor k address is. And based on
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`the position of the parties you con strued that ter m t o be "an
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`address that requi res authorization for ac cess." We believe
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`that is consistent with the r ecord. There doesn't see m to be
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`much of a dispute about that.
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`If you can go to s lide 20, please . The next t er m
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`that we see in the clai m l anguage is the virtual co mmunication
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`-- Virtual P rivate Net work co mmu nication link. An d here
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`because both of t he ref erences that we provided as a basis for
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`the proceedings e mplo ys co mmunic ation links that use
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`encr yption, we ad dressed that parti cular e mbodi ment but, as
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`you pointed out in your construction, the VP N co mmunication
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`link can cover me ans of preventing access to the tr a ns mission
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`of the infor matio n or infor mation t hat's being transmitted b y a
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`variet y of techniq ues, which can include encr yption,
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`authentication or address hopping.
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`If you go to slide 32, and that is co nsistent with
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`another point which we have addre ssed which is that the
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`virtual co mmunic ation link is so me thing which can just exist
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`between t wo points and a path .
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`So as we see in the declar ation provided by P atent
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`Owne r's expert, Dr . Monrose, he is describing a VP N
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`co mmunication li nk in refe rence to figure 33 of the patent and
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`he is pointi ng out that a VPN co mmunication link c an connect
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`the device 3301 a nd the ulti mate d evice 3320, whic h is a
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`point-to-point typ e of inter action, a nd that is described b y
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`their expert as a virtual co mmunic ation link.
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`If you go to slide 34, another ter m that's used in
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`so me of the depe ndent clai ms is tunneling and tunneling
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`packeting, or tun nel packeting. And, again, this is so mething
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`which you found a construction. You construed it to be
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`"tunnel packeting means placing da ta or infor mation in one
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`protocol for ma t ( or packet portion), into another pro tocol
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`for mat (or portion) of a packet ." And that is consistent with
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`the general me ani ng of tunneling. It is a technique or an
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`inco ming packet either in its entir et y or in its porti on is put
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`into another packet to pr ovide the secure trans mission of that
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`packet to the next destination. And that is a conventional
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`tunneling concept which both exper ts see m to acknowledge.
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`If you could go t o slide 36, this is an illustration of
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`a tunneling exa mple fro m the '274 patent. It takes a n
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`encr ypted TARP packet and wraps it into another packet with
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`an IP header , and that is portra yed as tunneling. We asked
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`their expert so me questions about that and it is consi stent with
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`his description that that wrapping technique of a pac ket i n its
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`entiret y can be a tunneling technique.
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`Another wa y of doing it, of course , is to take a
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`pa yload or a he ader or a portion of the inco ming pac ket and
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`wrap that , or put that into the next packet.
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`The last ter m I want to mention, g o to slide 20, is
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`the access request message. And h ere, based on you r anal ysis
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`of the parties' positions in the patent disclosure, you found
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`that the broadest reasonable construction of an ac ce ss request
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`message is "a signal in a pa cket or other message fo r mat that
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`signifies that the first network devi ce seeks co mmunication,
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`infor mation, or se rvices with a seco nd network devic e
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`associated with t he secure networ k address."
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`And that's logical . That 's essential l y once you
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`have set up this c onnection, the se cure co mmunicati on , the
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`first network devi ce is going to sen d so me t ype of a
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`co mmunication which sa ys we wou ld like to retrieve
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`infor mation or da ta fro m that other destination site.
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`If you go to slide 19. And that cor responds to that
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`last step of the cl ai m, the sending o f the ac cess r equest
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`message fro m the first net work dev ice to the s ecure network
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`address using the VP N co mmunicat ion link.
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`Now, I would like to shift over into Provino, if you
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`could go to slide 3 again. As I sai d, the clai m has three
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`pri ma r y ele ments . These steps are fairl y straightforward and I
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`would like to kee p those in the for efront of our minds as we go
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`through the Provino s yste m.
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`Go to slide 4 . In Provino, and this is the depiction
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`of the P rovino s yste m in figure 1 o f Exhibit 1003. As you can
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`see, the re are several ele ments of t his but one thing to keep in
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`mind is that Provi no portra ys this s yste m as its invention.
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`And that involves both the co mponent which is on
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`the left c alled de vice 12 -M or 12 - 1 as well as the e le ments that
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`are making up t his virtual private n etwork 15 on the far right,
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`and that has both the fire wall 30 as well as the serve r 31 -S ,
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`31-1, and i mporta ntly the VP N na me server 32.
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`It is also i mporta nt to keep in min d that the design
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`and purpose of Pr ovino is to enable those de vices 12 -M to
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`co mmunicate wit h the server 31 -S . That's what this s yste m is
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`all about, is finding a wa y to enable those interactio ns to
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`occur.
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`Go to slide 5 . Pr ovino explains that in its
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`invention there ar e two phases. The first phase involves the
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`12-M establishing a se cure tunnel with the fi rewall 30 which
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`gives access to th e resources behind that fire wall. And as it
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`points out, this first phase involves having the device 12 -M
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`establish a secure tunnel with the p rivate network via the
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`interaction of t he fire wall 30 and t he 12 -M device .
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`The 12 -M device is provided an ID of the secure
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`na me serve r 32 as part of this trans action. So the de vice 12 -M
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`is getting the identity and location of where to go to resolve
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`na mes , se cure na mes that a re inside the pri vate network.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: So when that happens, is that
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`what you ar e cont ending is using a VP N link, in other words,
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`is a secur e tunnel essentiall y a VP N link in this r ec ord?
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`MR. KUS HAN: So this first phas e sets up the VPN
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`link.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: S et ting up a t unnel is setting
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`up a VP N link?
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`MR. KUS HAN: Right, and so that basicall y gives
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`the device 12 -M like the encr yption ke y, the algorith m that is
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`supposed to be used and so me othe r resources to ena ble the m
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`to co mmunicate i n a secur e wa y.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: In the a rt is t here t ypic all y
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`an y diff erence be tween a tunnel an d a VP N link?
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`MR. KUS HAN: I think a tunnel is kind of a
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`broader concept a s used in the a rt t o be roughl y equivalent to a
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`VP N. It is a co mmon te chnique for enabling or pro viding
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`VP N.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: So it is a little broader . In
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`what sense is it b roader, if you know?
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`MR. KUS HAN: You know, if I lo ok at the wa y
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`that the experts h ave addressed it, tunneling see ms t o be
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`so me what of an i nfor mal ter m the y use in an active sense to
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`sa y, well, we will set up a tunnel fr o m point A to point B. A
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`virtual private ne twork is an e mbo di ment or i mple mentation
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`that uses tunneling to do interactions between t wo p oints.
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`And under the sc he me of the paten t the y are using
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`it as a VPN co mmunication link. I don't know that t here is an
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`actual substantive differenc e bet we en a tunnel set up betwe en
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`point A and point B and a virtual c o mmunication link set up
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`between point A and point B in th e patent sche me .
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: Oka y. Thank you.
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`MR. KUS HAN : So at this point we have set up
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`this tunnel which enables the devic e 12 -M to co mmu nicate
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`with these r esources that a re behin d the fire wall in t he virtual
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`private network 1 5.
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`Now, in this proc ess the 12 -M devi ce gets
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`authenticated. That's an integral part of the setting up of this
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`sche me . And it a lso then is given these provisioned resources
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`which include the encr yption ke ys and also infor mat ion that
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`enables it to do t he interactions wi th the devices be hind the
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`firewall .
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`Go to slide 6 . On ce the tun nel is s et up, that then
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`allows for the possibility of the 12 - M device to send in a
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`request to interac t or to retrieve re sources fro m one of the
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`servers, 31 -S. And in the Provino sche me this can be done b y
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`specif ying the na me of that device.
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`So under P r ovino's sche me, the dev ice 12 -M will
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`generate a reques t message back fo r trans mission to the na me
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`server 32 through the fir ewall 30 a nd over the secur e tunnel.
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`And what that is doing is it is taking a request with a na me in
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`it, sending it to t he VPN na me ser ver 32 which has been given
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`the infor mation to co mmunicat e with, and that allo ws the next
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`step to occur, whi ch is in slide 7, which is a r eturn b y the VPN
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`na me serve r of the resolved I P add ress of that na me back to
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`the 12 -M device through the tunnel.
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`And as Provino e xplains, that is la id out ver y
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`clearl y. I f the na me serve r 32 has an integer Interne t address
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`associated with t he hu man -readabl e Internet address in the
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`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`request message packet fro m 12 - M , it will then prov ide the
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`integer, that integ er addre ss in a manner si milar to what is
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`described above e xcept that the int eger address is going to be
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`provided by the n a me se rver 32.
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`I mportantl y, the na me serve r 32 is storing
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`infor mation whic h isn't going to be found in a public or
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`conventional DNS server . It will only have infor mation that
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`associates secure na mes , se cure de vice na mes with s ecure IP
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`addresses.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: P atent Owner has argued that
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`the access request message co mes a fter this point that you
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`have just desc ribed wherein the tunnel is se t up and you get
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`the secure IP address for a device , a server , 31 -S I t hink it is.
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`Do you concede that point, that tha t is corre ct that
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`we probabl y mad e an error in the decision to institute?
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`MR. KUS HAN: Well, there are two points and --
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`JUDGE EASTHO M: Not that point, I ' m sor r y, let
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`me be more clear . But there was a nother alternative rationale
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`that reall y setting up the r equest was sufficient to c r eate an
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`access r equest me ssage.
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`MR. KUS HAN: Yeah, you had ex plained that there
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`is an interaction, whi ch I walked through, which sets up the
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`VP N, and in that process I think yo u probably infer r ed that the
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`request that's bei ng made b y the or iginal device 12 -M ma y
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`have had a na me in it that needed r esolution.
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`12
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`And what we are tr ying to show yo u here is that
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`there is an additional step that it must pre cede, the setting up
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`of that tunnel. The 12 -M device has to set up the tunnel. It
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`has to be given th e identit y or the l ocation of the sec ure na me
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`server 32. And o nce it has that inf or mation it can th en send
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`the request to the na me server 32 f or resolution.
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`But in the flo w of the P rovino scheme , it does
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`track precisel y wi th the clai m l anguage wher e ther e is first
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`setting up of a VPN link and then there is a trans mi ssion of a
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`request which get s resolved. That na me is then -- the integer
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`address is sent ba ck to the r equesting device 12 -M, and then
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`that is used in the last step of the c lai m to co mmunic ate with
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`the destination. That would be the server 31 -S.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: And I think P atent Owner's
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`argu ment i s, no , i t is co mmunicating with the fire wal l and not
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`necessaril y sending it to the destination server 31 -S .
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`MR. KUS HAN: So if you go back to slide 6, I
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`think that might b e a strained re ading of what Provino is
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`teaching. In so me context the fi re wall is e nabling the secure
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`tunnel to be established.
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`But what you se e in Provino is that it's taking its
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`device 12 -M and it is charact erized in its co mmunica tion
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`with not -- the fi r ewall, it is sa ying through the fire wall to
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`na me serve r 32.
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`And that makes s ense because it has been given the
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`wa y to co mmunicate with the na me server 32 when it sets up
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`the tunnel.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: That's the whole point of the
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`Provino s yste m, c orrect?
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`MR. KUS HAN: Yes. You need to get ac cess to
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`na me serve r 32 in order to find the IP addresses of th e secure
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`servers that you want to co mmuni cate with. And in the patent
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`itself that also, if you can pull up s lide 33, I think, f igure 12,
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`I' m sor r y, yes . This is out of their patent.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: I ' m sor r y, slide 32?
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`MR. KUS HAN: This is slide 32.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: Thanks.
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`MR. KUS HAN: This is figure 33 of the '274
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`patent. And as you can see , this is ver y analogous to Provino.
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`It has a secure portal 3310, and be hind it, and it's e quivalent
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`to the fire wall 30 in Provino, and you s ee down in the botto m
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`left is a secure domain na me server 3313, which is a nalogous
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`to the secure na me server in the Pr ovino sche me.
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`And you see that the device 3301 is going to have
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`to get to the secu re na me serve r, the S DNS in their p atent
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`sche me , to ge t th e infor mation nee ded to co mmunicate with
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`the ulti mate destination, which is 3 320.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: So the y ar e u sing the link
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`3319, is that corr ect?
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`MR. KUS HAN: So the y ar e using -- yes, 3319
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`co mes and routes that down to the s ecure portal , which i s the
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`firewall equivalent in the Provino sche me .
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: I ' m sor r y, oka y, 3321, one of
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`those. Wh y is th at a VP N link in t he patent? What makes that
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`a VPN link?
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`MR. KUS HAN: Well, so what we understand is
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`that once you have had this initial i n teraction, just like in
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`Provino, the devi ce 3301 is going to have the creden tials,
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`encr yption ke y, a nd the other infor mation it needs to set up an
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`encr ypted co mmu nication link to the ulti mate destination
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`which is 3320.
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`And it also is going to set up in i ts process a
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`secure connection to the secur e por tal. I believe in c olu mn 46
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`of the patent ther e is an explanation. I don't have it on a --
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`well, if you look at colu mn 46, lin e 59 or 60, ther e i s a
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`description of this initial step of s etting up an ad mi nis trative
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`VP N co mmunicat ion link with a se cure portal.
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`And that's that initial exchange tha t gives it acc ess
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`to the secure do main na me se rver . And once that is done, then
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`it has retrieved the infor mation it n eeds to go to the
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`destination it wants to co mmu nicate with .
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`Go back to slide 8. I don't know i f you wanted to
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`ask an y more questions?
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: No, thank yo u. I appreciate
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`that.
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`MR. KUS HAN: So once the information, the
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`integer Internet a ddress of the se rver 31 -S has been given to
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`device 12 -M, the n that 12 -M devic e can use it to cre ate
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`message packets f or trans mission to the server 31 -S which is
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`associated with t he hu man -readabl e Internet address. And so
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`that's creating the sche me which we think is precisel y
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`analogous to what the patent clai ms specif y.
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`If you go to slide 9, as we saw in P rovino, it
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`sends -- 12-M sends a quer y me ssa ge fro m a first ne twork
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`device, which is 12 -M, which is se cure do main servi ce, which
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`is the na me serve r 32. That quer y message has in it the secure
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`do main na me o f s erver 31 -S it wishes to co mmunicat e with .
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`And then what is returned b y the se cure do main
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`na me serve r 32 in Provino is the IP address, the secu re
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`network address of the second net work device . So those are
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`your fi rst two steps.
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`And then the final ste p, the sending of the access
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`request message, occurs after the 1 2 -M device has re ceived the
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`IP address of the server 31 -S .
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`If you go to slide 17, and as I walk through this,
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`just to be clear , the second networ k address that is being
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`provided in Provino i s the address which the secu re do main
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`server has associated with the secur e device 31 -S . That's a
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`correlation which it maintains and uses.
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`There is so me question about when that correlation
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`gets established. It is ver y clear fr o m Provino that i t is
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`created and is stored in the se cure do main na me serv er 32,
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`which then gives it the abilit y to re spond to those queries.
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`Slide 18. And that's illustrated, for exa mple , in --
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`and this should be Exhibit 1003 at 11, 5 to 23, descr ibing how
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`the na me se rver 32 a ctuall y car ries out this function.
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`Go to slide 19. This last step I wa nt to make a
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`brief mention abo ut. And if you go to slide 22, one of the
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`questions that has been r aised in th e Patent Owner 's response
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`is whether the co mmunication that goes fro m 12 -M to the
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`server 31 -S is so mething which qualifies as an acc e ss request
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`message?
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`In our view it absolutely is. The whole point of
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`the 12 -M co mmu nication through the VP co mmunica tion link
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`at that point is to obtain resources, infor mation, serv ices fro m
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`that server 31 -S .
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`So what -- wh y is it sending? It's s ending packets
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`so it can intera ct with that serve r 3 1 -S. And in your
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`description of wh at an a ccess request message is, th at is an
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`illustration of one of the things that can be done.
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`So if you go to 2 4, one of the things that Provino
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`illustrates is that the -- this should be Exhibit 1003 - - the
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`server that's being addressed here can be a storage server.
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`And that would be, for exa mple , a file server that would be
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`responding to requests for a file. I t could be other i nfor mation
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`being sent.
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`And in -- go to 2 6, please . The ot her thing to keep
`
`in mind is that all of the co mmunic ations that are oc curring,
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`all of the co mmu nications on the left side of this picture
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`between 12 -M an d the fire wall are encr ypt ed co mmu nications.
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`Those ar e over a public network such as the Internet . Those
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`are se cured b y th at technique.
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`And then as the fi gure 1 illustrates, all of the
`
`devices within or behind the firewa ll are also part o f a VP N,
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`so virtual private network 15 t hat i s being depicted indicating
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`that's a se cure net work environ men t.
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`And if you go to slide 27. Our expert Dr. Guerin
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`explains that once you have set up the secure tunnel that goes
`
`over the Internet , the public portion, that allo ws the
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`trans mission sec urel y of the infor mation, both set up the VP N
`
`and also the requ est, to its ulti mat e destination which is
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`trans mitted once it is inside the se cure VP N portion without
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`necessaril y using encr yption.
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`All right. So if you go to slide 35, one of the
`
`questions , and this goes to the ques tion of tunneling, Provino
`
`makes it cle ar tha t as part of its t ec hnique it is going to tunnel
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`packets. And the re a re a couple in stances mentioned here.
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
`
`One instance, it i s explaining that the packet that it has
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`received is goin g to be put into, in an encr ypted for m, another
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`packet for t rans mission. And that' s a classic exa mp le of
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`tunneling.
`
`The other thing that Provino notes is that in its
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`kind of general d escription of how you might i mple ment the
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`invention, you ca n modif y, p rocess , message packets to
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`confor m to a part icular protocol, a nd that suggests also the
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`protocol confir ma tion point of your construction, illustrating
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`that you c an take a message packet in one protocol for mat and
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`put it into the Internet protocol for trans mission.
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`Just to kind of wr ap up on a couple points on
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`anticipation, we note that there we r en't separate grou nds
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`advanced for clai ms 7, 8, 10 , 12, 1 3 and 15 relative to clai m 1,
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`so we think those more or less stan d or fall with the outco me
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`you have on an ticipation over claim 1.
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`Go to slide 42. The next ground we addressed was
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`looking at these d ependent clai ms 2 to 5 of the '274 patent,
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`and basicall y we ' ve explained that a person of skill would have
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`found i mple menta tion of these tech niques, which a re al l
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`i mple mentations of the secur e net work service , to be obvious
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`variations at the t i me of the invention.
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`Go to slide 42. I' m sorr y, slide 43. And what we
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`provided to support this was a ref er ence called Kosiu r, which
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`is Exhibit 1006. And Dr. Guerin e xpl ained that the Kosiur
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`referenc e is basic all y desc ribing how you might tak e and appl y
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`VP N s yste ms to v arious applications. And when he v iewed
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`Kosiur in conjunc tion with Provino he thought it obvious to
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`i mpl y the VP N te chnique in Provino in a manner tha t wo uld
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`address ever y one of those li mitati ons of 2 to 5.
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`And then finall y, there was an additional ground --
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`go to 46, please - - which we advan ced on clai m 18, and the y
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`have rested their position on anticipation of clai m 1 8 which
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`depends fro m clai m 1. So l et me t a lk briefl y about Kiuchi.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: C an you just su mmariz e real
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`quickly the conte ntion about the secure net work and have the y
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`distinguished, Patent Owner distinguished in their patent
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`between the regul ar do main na me a nd the argu ment a bout tha t
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`not being disclosed in Provino bec ause it is doing re gular
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`do main na me fun ctions, please?
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`MR. KUS HAN: Sure. If you put up slide 3, I want
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`to have this discussion with the cla i m in front of us because it
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`is i mportant to appreciate a couple things abou t their
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`argu ments.
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`The first one is th e y cited a case , Abbott, which
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`was a gre at exa mple of so mething where the clai m l anguage
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`co mpelled reading the clai m li mita tion to be so mething
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`specificall y desc r ibed in the patent. And in Abbott, for
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`exa mple , the y found attributes of how that sensor wa s going to
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`be configured and interact with other things. That t hen
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`Cases IPR2014-00403 and IPR2014-00404
`U.S. Patent 7,987,274
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`mapped to the des cription in the Ab bott invention or Abbott
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`disclosure. And f ro m that the y found it was appropriate to
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`constrain that li mitation to t he e mb odi ment in the invention.
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`Another part that is i mportant about Abbott that
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`isn't found in this is that the Abbott patent had onl y one
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`e mbodi ment, ther e is onl y one wa y of doing it, and t here
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`wasn't a bunch of options that are envisioned for that
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`e mbodi ment. It was one option.
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`In this environ me nt there is no constraint. Ther e is
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`no hook that is compar able to Abbott's invention where there
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`is a r equire ment f or special process ing. But at the e nd of the
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`da y when you loo k at both the P rovino sche me and th e Kosiur
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`sche me - - I ' m sor r y, and the Kiuchi sche me, neither of those
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`are conventional DNS serve rs. Th e y perfor m these additional
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`functions precisely as the clai ms sp ecifies the y would.
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`JUDGE EASTHOM: In other word s, the y provide a
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`secure na me , is that the onl y additional?
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`MR. KUS HAN: The y provide a se cure na me . Fo r
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`exa mple , in the Kiuchi and Provino sche mes ther e is also a
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`setting up of a VPN. The re is the use of the VP N to trans mit
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`the message. The re is also a correl ation that's maintained b y
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`the special server of the two dif fer ent -- the secure na me and
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`the secure IP address.
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`If you go to -- I want to bring up slide 16. This is,
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`I think, so me of t heir argu ment tha t the y advanced a bout this
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