Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`MEDTRONIC, INC., MEDTRONIC )
`
`VASCULAR, INC., and )
`
`MEDTRONIC COREVALVE, LLC, )
`
` )
`
` Petitioner, )
`
` )
`
` vs. ) No. IPR2014-00110
`
` ) No. IPR2014-00111
`
`TROY R. NORRED, M.D., )
`
` )
`
` Patent Owner. )
`
` THE DEPOSITION OF TROY RAY NORRED,
`
`M.D., a Witness, taken on behalf of the
`
`Petitioner, before Alison A. Tracy, Missouri CCR
`
`No. 554, pursuant to Notice on the 8th day of
`
`October, 2014, at the Law Offices of Bartle &
`
`Marcus, 1100 Main Street, Suite 2730, Kansas
`
`City, Missouri.
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`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 1
`
`
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`MEDTRONIC, INC., MEDTRONIC )
`
`VASCULAR, INC., and )
`
`MEDTRONIC COREVALVE, LLC, )
`
` )
`
` Petitioner, )
`
` )
`
` vs. ) No. IPR2014-00110
`
` ) No. IPR2014-00111
`
`TROY R. NORRED, M.D., )
`
` )
`
` Patent Owner. )
`
` THE DEPOSITION OF TROY RAY NORRED,
`
`M.D., a Witness, taken on behalf of the
`
`Petitioner, before Alison A. Tracy, Missouri CCR
`
`No. 554, pursuant to Notice on the 8th day of
`
`October, 2014, at the Law Offices of Bartle &
`
`Marcus, 1100 Main Street, Suite 2730, Kansas
`
`City, Missouri.
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`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 1
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 2
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`FOR THE PETITIONER:
`
` Mr. Jack S. Barufka
`
` PILLSBURY WINTHROP SHAW PITTMAN, LLP
`
` 1600 Tysons Boulevard, 14th Floor
`
` McLean, Virginia 22102
`
` 703.770.7900
`
` barufka@pillsburylaw.com
`
` and
`
` Mr. Evan Finkel
`
` PILLSBURY WINTHROP SHAW PITTMAN, LLP
`
` 725 South Figueroa Street, Suite 2800
`
` Los Angeles, California 90017
`
` 213.488.7100
`
` evan.finkel@pillsburylaw.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`
` Mr. Sean Edman
`
` Principal Patent Counsel
`
` MEDTRONIC
`
` 8200 Coral Sea Street NE, MVS76
`
` Mounds View, Minnesota 55112
`
` 763.505.8418
`
` sean.edman@medtronic.com
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
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`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 2
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`
` Mr. David L. Marcus
`
` BARTLE & MARCUS, LLC
`
` 1100 Main Street, Suite 2730
`
` Kansas City, Missouri 64105
`
` 816.256.4699
`
` david.marcus@pobox.com
`
` and
`
` Mr. James J. Kernell
`
` ERICKSON, KERNELL, DERUSSEAU & KLEYPAS, LLC
`
` 8900 State Line Road, Suite 500
`
` Leawood, Kansas 66206
`
` 913.549.4700
`
` jkernell@kcpatentlaw.com
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`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 3
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 4
`
` I N D E X
`
`WITNESS: PAGE:
`
` Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. FINKEL 7
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. MARCUS 91
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` E X H I B I T S
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`NO.: DESCRIPTION: PAGE:
`
`1: Original notarized drawing 24
`
` (Retained by Mr. Marcus)
`
`2: Summary of Substitute Motion to
`
` Amend 67
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`3: Summary of Substitute Motion to
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` Amend 67
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`4: Wan Patent 77
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`5: Original document, Physician 92
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` Progress Note with drawing
`
` on the back
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` (Retained by Mr. Marcus)
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`6: Original drawing on napkin 118
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` (Retained by Mr. Marcus)
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`7: 5/9/2000 $2,000 check to Chase
`
` & Yakimo 122
`
`8: Full Patent Owner Substitute
`
` Motion to Amend 123
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`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 4
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 5
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` E X H I B I T S (Continued)
`
`NO.: DESCRIPTION: PAGE:
`
`1001: 228 Patent 12
`
`1006: Figulla Patent 85
`
`2093: Declaration of Troy Norred in
`
` IPR2014-00110 19
`
`2101: Copy of Physicians Progress
`
` Notes with drawing on back 113
`
`2102: Copy of drawing on napkin 116
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`2103: Copy of Notarized drawing 23
`
`2104: 3/26/99 Handwritten note
`
` To Dr. Davis 35
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`2113: 6/4/00 Note to Dr. Flaker 119
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`2114: 6/12/00 Handwritten note to
`
` Jim Kernell from Troy Norred
`
` with drawing attached 120
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`2117: 9/26 Fax to Chip Galaxy,
`
` University Physicians 56
`
`2119: Handwritten notes and
`
` Calculations 47
`
`2132: 49
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`2135: Note to Greg Flaker, MD from
`
` Troy Norred 57
`
`2137: Percutaneous Aortic Valve
`
` Proposal/Protocol 53
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 5
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 6
`
` E X H I B I T S (Continued)
`
` NO.: DESCRIPTION: PAGE:
`
` 2141: Percutaneous Aortic Valve
`
` Replacement 53
`
` 2142: Percutaneous Aortic Valve
`
` Replacement 53
`
` 2151: Percutaneous Aortic Valve
`
` Replacement 53
`
` 2177: List of 800 Numbers
`
` Technical Services Departments 57
`
` 2178: Photocopy of business cards 58
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` 2183: 6/4/99 Handwritten note
`
` Regarding call to Sturek 39
`
` 2185: Aorta calculations for
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` heart valve, 6/7/00 47
`
` 2186: Percutaneous Aortic Valve
`
` Replacement proposal 55
`
` 2187: 6/19, University of Missouri
`
` Columbia School of Medicine
`
` Fellows Notification of Absence 58
`
` 2188: 6/9/00 Fax to Troy Norred
`
` from Spray Venture Partners 58
`
` 2193: IPR 111 Troy Norred Declaration
`
` 2203: Totten Patent 73
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`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 6
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 7
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` (The Deposition commenced at 10:12 a.m.)
`
` TROY RAY NORRED, M.D.,
`
`a Witness, being first duly sworn, testified
`
`under oath as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. FINKEL:
`
` Q. Mr. Norred, my name is Evan Finkel, I'm
`
`here to take your deposition as counsel for the
`
`Petitioner in this matter. Do you understand
`
`that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And can you please state your full name
`
`for the record?
`
` A. Troy Ray Norred.
`
` Q. What is your current home address?
`
` A. P.O. Box 1780, Ada, Oklahoma 74281.
`
` Q. A P.O. Box is not obviously a home
`
`address. What is your home address?
`
` A. I thought that was in my declaration.
`
`It is 2710 Bowen Lane, Ada, Oklahoma.
`
` Q. What is your home phone number, please?
`
` A. It is (580)310-0509.
`
` Q. What is your cell phone number, please?
`
` A. It is (405)517-7481.
`
` Q. What is your E-mail address?
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 7
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 8
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` A. trnorred06@aol.com.
`
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
`
` A. I have.
`
` Q. In connection with what type of
`
`proceeding?
`
` A. One deposition was in a personal injury
`
`case of mine with an accident, and the other was
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`in a wrongful termination lawsuit against a
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`hospital.
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` Q. That would have been the lawsuit you
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`filed in 2009?
`
` A. Yes. Was it 2009? I thought it was
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`before that, actually, but maybe 2008, I thought.
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` Q. 2008 or 2009?
`
` A. Yes.
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` Q. And that was against Valley View
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`Regional Hospital?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. That was a case that you filed for
`
`wrongful termination?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did you prevail in that case?
`
` A. I did not.
`
` Q. Did the other side prevail?
`
` A. They did.
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 8
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 9
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` Q. What was the basis of the termination?
`
` A. Hostile physician.
`
` Q. Could you elaborate on what that means,
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`not being a doctor?
`
` A. Just means they didn't feel like I was
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`cooperating with them. And my side of it I felt
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`there was negligent care. They didn't feel I was
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`going through the proper channels to correct
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`situations, they felt I was not cooperative with
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`the administration, and they had given me
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`ultimatums that I did not comply with. At the
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`end of it I felt their sanctions were unjustified
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`so I didn't comply, and they terminated me
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`because of that action.
`
` MR. MARCUS: You may want to keep
`
`your voice up a tad just to make sure she can get
`
`it down.
`
` Q. (By Mr. Finkel) Where was that case
`
`filed?
`
` A. Ponotoc County.
`
` Q. Could you spell that, please?
`
` A. P-o-n-o-t-o-c.
`
` Q. That's in Oklahoma?
`
` A. That's in Oklahoma.
`
` Q. State court there?
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 9
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 10
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, you were present yesterday during
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`the entirety of the testimony of Dr. Catchings,
`
`correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And did you have dinner with
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`Mr. Catchings last night after the deposition?
`
` A. We had drinks.
`
` Q. Where did you have drinks?
`
` A. At a bar next to this facility.
`
` Q. Now, have you had your deposition taken
`
`other than the two times that you mentioned?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. You are going to have to talk up,
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`probably. Your counsel is correct.
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Let me go through the ground rules. You
`
`heard them yesterday but I will give you my
`
`version of them as well, that will educate you
`
`and hopefully make the deposition go smoothly.
`
`Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. First thing is I'm going to ask
`
`questions. Please make sure that you believe I
`
`have completed my question so we don't talk over
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 10
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 11
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`each other, because it is hard for the court
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`reporter to take things down when we are both
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`talking at the same time. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Second, if you don't understand a
`
`question, let me know and I will try to rephrase
`
`it in a way that accommodates whatever issues you
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`have with the questioning. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. If you need a question repeated, the
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`court reporter can read it back to you. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Most importantly, the court reporter can
`
`only take down audible responses; so gestures,
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`nodding of the head and so forth she will not be
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`able to take down. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. If you need a break,, you can take a
`
`break any time you need one, with the caveat if I
`
`have a pending question to you, I would like you
`
`to answer it before you take the break. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Are you under any medication that may
`
`impact your ability to fully and truthfully
`
`answer my questions?
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 11
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 12
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` A. No.
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` Q. Is there anything else that you feel may
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`impact your ability to fully and truthfully
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`answer my questions today?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. We have gotten a little discussion on
`
`the record yesterday regarding talking about your
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`testimony through the course of my examination of
`
`you. Do you recall that?
`
` A. I do not.
`
` Q. So let me give you an instruction and
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`hopefully you will be able to comply with it.
`
`You are not permitted to consult or confer with
`
`your attorney or anyone else at breaks in your
`
`deposition, and that includes lunch breaks, until
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`my examination of you has been completed, except
`
`for purposes of conferring on whether to assert a
`
`privilege against testifying or on how to comply
`
`with the Board order. Do you understand that?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. I'm going to hand you a copy of
`
`Petitioner's Exhibit 1001, which is a copy of
`
`your patent, U.S. Patent number 6,482,228, which
`
`is involved in this proceeding. Do you recognize
`
`this patent?
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 12
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 13
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` A. Yes, sir.
`
` Q. I'm going to refer to this as the 228
`
`patent. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. And the 228 patent names you as the sole
`
`inventor, correct?
`
` A. Yes, sir.
`
` Q. And to the best of your knowledge, are
`
`you the sole inventor of the subject matter
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`described in that patent?
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` A. Yes, sir.
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` Q. To the best of your knowledge are you
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`the sole owner of that patent, 228?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You submitted a declaration, correct, in
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`connection with IPR proceedings here, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. We have two IPR proceedings. Are you
`
`familiar with that?
`
` A. Yes, sir.
`
` Q. And the two IPR proceedings are IPR
`
`number 2014-00110, which I'm going to refer to
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`the as the 110 IPR. Okay?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And the other one is IPR2014-00111, I'm
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 13
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 14
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`going to refer to that as the 111 IPR proceeding.
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`Okay?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You are also a party to a litigation
`
`against Medtronic entities in the District Court
`
`of Kansas, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Also regarding your 228 patent, correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Please tell me what you did to prepare
`
`for your deposition today.
`
` A. I reviewed materials I felt relevant to
`
`this, I discussed the matter with my attorneys, I
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`spoke to Dr. Tim Catchings on a few occasions. I
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`spoke to an artist to help me with renderings for
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`visualization of certain patents. That's it.
`
` Q. You say you reviewed materials that you
`
`thought were relevant. Could you describe those
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`materials, please.
`
` A. The patent, the declarations, many of
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`the relevant patents to the current issue at
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`hand.
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` Q. When you say the relevant patents, you
`
`mean prior art patents that have been raised in
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`this case?
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 14
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 15
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` A. Those are among those, yes.
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` Q. What other patents?
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` A. I cannot remember the specific names,
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`but I did review patents.
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` Q. Any patent that to your knowledge has
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`not been discussed in any of the materials from
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`this case up to now?
`
` A. I'm sorry?
`
` Q. I'm just trying to understand whether or
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`not there are any patents that you reviewed that
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`are not somehow of record in this case?
`
` A. Not to my knowledge.
`
` Q. When you spoke to Mr. Catchings, did you
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`do it by phone or in person?
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` A. By phone.
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` Q. How many times?
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` A. Three or four.
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` Q. For about how long did you speak with
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`him each time?
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` A. I don't recall specific times.
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` Q. More than an hour?
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` A. On occasion it may have been more than
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`an hour.
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` Q. In total about how long did you speak
`
`with him about matters relating to preparation
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 15
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 16
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`for your deposition?
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` A. I couldn't argue a guess. It was just
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`more than an hour.
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` Q. More than 10 hours?
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` A. I wouldn't think more than 10 hours.
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` Q. More than five hours?
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` A. I don't know.
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` Q. More than three hours?
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` A. I didn't keep a running record.
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` Q. So you don't know?
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` A. I'm not entirely certain.
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` Q. What is your best guess?
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` A. I gave you my best estimate.
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` Q. Which is?
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` A. In between 10 and five hours.
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` Q. You referred to artist renderings
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`before; do you recall that?
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` A. Yes, sir.
`
` Q. Who was the artist that you are talking
`
`about?
`
` A. John Fisher.
`
` Q. Who is John Fisher?
`
` A. He is a Native American artist in the
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`area that I live in and he is also my echo
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`cardiographer of my clinic and he does cardiac
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 16
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 17
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`sonography and has done so for 12 years for me.
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` Q. So when you talk about John Fisher --
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`how do you spell Fisher?
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` A. F-i-s-h-e-r.
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` Q. When you talk about Mr. Fisher preparing
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`the artist drawings, are those the ones that
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`Mr. Catchings produced at the deposition
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`yesterday and were discussed at his deposition
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`showing his idea of how the prior art might
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`operate?
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` A. Those specific drawings I don't think
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`were the exact drawings that John produced, but
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`they were renderings of the drawings that John
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`Fisher produced.
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` Q. You have to forgive me because I'm far
`
`from an artist. Why don't you explain to me the
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`process we are talking about that led to the
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`drawings that we discussed yesterday with
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`Mr. Catchings.
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` A. John and I met to discuss the way the
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`patents read and were drawn so that he could draw
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`the patents and a valve system to the best of our
`
`understanding, my understanding as I conveyed it
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`to him. Once we completed those drawings, I
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`turned those drawings over to, through E-mail
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 17
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 18
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`correspondence the attorneys. The attorneys then
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`took those drawings and had them automated with a
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`CAD device. That's it.
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` Q. Did Mr. Catchings have a role in the
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`creation of those drawings?
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` A. I sent Dr. Catchings renderings of the
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`valves and inquired upon his opinion, but he
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`didn't materially engage in the renderings.
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` Q. Now, I understood from our conversation
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`yesterday with Mr. Catchings that he and you go
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`back a ways. Is that fair?
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` A. We have been colleagues and friends
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`since '99.
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` Q. So about 15 years?
`
` A. Yes, sir.
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` Q. Do you have any understanding with
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`Mr. Catchings regarding compensation of any kind
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`arising from either the litigation or the IPR
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`proceedings?
`
` A. I do not.
`
` Q. I'm going to hand you a copy of Exhibit
`
`2193 in IPR 111, which is a copy of your
`
`declaration. Do you recognize that document,
`
`sir?
`
` A. Yes.
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 18
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 19
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` Q. And is that your signature on Page 36?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And did you believe at the time you
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`signed that declaration that all of the
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`statements in there were true and correct?
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` A. Yes.
`
` Q. As we sit here today, do you continue to
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`believe that all of the statements in the
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`declaration are true and correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Just for the record, I'm going to hand
`
`you Exhibit 2093 from the IPR 110. I'm going to
`
`ask you to turn to Page 36 of that document. Is
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`that your signature again at that page?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Did you in fact sign this document like
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`you did the other one on July 16, 2014?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Now, my understanding, having gone
`
`through the declarations, is that they are the
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`same with the exception of references to the
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`different IPR proceedings and different exhibits
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`from the different IPR proceeding that correspond
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`to each other. Do you have any reason to believe
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`what I just said is not accurate? I'm not asking
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 19
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 20
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`you to compare the exact documents word-for-word.
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`What I'm asking is, you signed both declarations.
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`Did you understand that they were the same except
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`for referring to different IPR numbers and
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`different exhibit numbers?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So I'm going to try to refer to just
`
`exhibits and items as best as I can from the IPR
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`111 proceeding just for ease of reference. Okay?
`
` A. Okay.
`
` Q. Now, did you draft that declaration
`
`yourself?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. So you came up with all of the content
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`completely on your own?
`
` A. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the question.
`
` Q. Did you come up with the content of that
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`declaration completely on your own?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. You didn't confer with anybody?
`
` A. I did confer with my attorneys.
`
` Q. Anyone else?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. Did you confer with Mr. Catchings?
`
` A. No.
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 20
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 21
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` Q. How long did it take you to prepare the
`
`declaration?
`
` A. If you were to ask me to guess, I would
`
`say greater than 20 hours.
`
` Q. And did you have before you all of the
`
`exhibits referred to in the declaration at the
`
`time you were preparing the declaration?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. I would like to turn to a different
`
`topic for a moment. Do you have any invoices
`
`regarding work done by your attorneys in
`
`connection with the preparation of the patent
`
`application that led to issuance of the 228
`
`patent?
`
` A. Not to my knowledge.
`
` Q. Do you have any canceled checks
`
`regarding payments made to your attorneys in the
`
`preparation of the patent applications that led
`
`to the issuance of the 228 patent?
`
` A. I don't have direct knowledge that we
`
`do.
`
` Q. Do you have any records indicating how
`
`much you paid to have the patent application
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`prepared?
`
` A. Not to my direct knowledge.
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 21
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 22
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` Q. We attorneys, when we hear words like
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`"direct knowledge," which you used a couple of
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`times now, it raises our antenna that we want to
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`know what you might be thinking of in terms of
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`indirect knowledge. Are you using the term
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`direct knowledge to indicate that you may have
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`some other information but not direct?
`
` A. I'm using the term to say what I can
`
`recall right at this moment to my best knowledge,
`
`that's what I mean by direct.
`
` Q. So when you say no direct knowledge, you
`
`mean as we sit here today you have no information
`
`to indicate that you have such documents?
`
` A. As I sit here today I cannot remember,
`
`if I say not to my direct knowledge, off the top
`
`of my head the question that you are asking.
`
` Q. Did you look for any of the types of
`
`documents I have asked you about so far?
`
` A. I have not specifically looked for those
`
`documents.
`
` Q. Do you have any records indicating when
`
`you made payments to have an application
`
`prepared?
`
` A. The patent application?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 22
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 23
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` A. Not to the best of my knowledge.
`
` Q. Do you have any calendars or day timers
`
`or the like reflecting when you communicated with
`
`your attorneys regarding preparation of the
`
`patent in the case?
`
` A. I had kept calendars and I had kept many
`
`materials with that but I have not been able to
`
`find those documents.
`
` Q. So you looked for them and you could not
`
`find them?
`
` A. Yes, sir.
`
` Q. When did you look for them?
`
` A. I looked for them throughout the course
`
`of much of the investigation and the history of
`
`this over the last two or three years.
`
` Q. I'm going to hand you Petitioner's
`
`Exhibit 2103 in the 111 IPR. Can you briefly
`
`describe what this document is?
`
` A. This is a drawing that I produced in
`
`December '98 showing a valve design inside of a
`
`stent system to utilize the percutaneous
`
`treatment for aortic stenosis.
`
` Q. I would like to have this marked, this
`
`document marked as Exhibit 1.
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 1 was marked
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 23
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 24
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`for identification.)
`
` Q. I'm going to hand you a document that
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`was handed to me this morning, which I understand
`
`is the original of Exhibit 2103, is that correct?
`
` A. That's correct.
`
` Q. Thank you. I have taken it out of the
`
`wrapper that it is in. Is this in fact an
`
`original document or a copy, Exhibit 1 to your
`
`deposition?
`
` A. It is an original document, to the best
`
`of my knowledge.
`
` Q. Is the stamp on there from the notary
`
`raised at all?
`
` A. It seems like the stamp.
`
` Q. But is it raised at all to indicate a
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`raised stamp of any kind?
`
` A. It is not.
`
` Q. Does the writing on that document look
`
`like original writing or does it look like a copy
`
`to you?
`
` A. It looks like original writing.
`
` Q. Why do you say that? What is on that
`
`document to indicate that it is an original as
`
`compared to Exhibit 2103?
`
` A. There is a different color to the ink on
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 24
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 25
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`this handwritten portion so to me it looks
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`different. So it looks --
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` Q. You are saying that in this document,
`
`Exhibit 1 to your deposition, you see different
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`colored inks. What are you referring to?
`
` A. Where there is things filled in, it
`
`looks like this is different. If it was a copy,
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`it would seem like it would all be the same
`
`color.
`
` Q. So to you the writing in where it says,
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`for example, Dec., and the '98 and somebody's
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`name, looks like a different color, is that
`
`correct?
`
` A. When I compare the copy that you have
`
`given me to the original, I can tell that the
`
`copy is a copy and the original looks original,
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`to the best of my knowledge.
`
` Q. Where do you keep the original document
`
`that you said you believe is an original
`
`document?
`
` A. Where did I keep it?
`
` Q. Yes.
`
` A. It is at my attorney's office.
`
` Q. When did you provide it to your
`
`attorney?
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 25
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 26
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` A. Maybe a couple of years ago.
`
` Q. Prior to that time where was the
`
`document?
`
` A. It was in a box in my garage, or maybe
`
`it was at my -- I think was at a box in my
`
`mother's house.
`
` Q. And why did you choose to have this
`
`document, Exhibit 1 to your deposition,
`
`notarized?
`
` A. To protect it and to memorialize the
`
`date that I felt I had come up with this idea.
`
` Q. Was it your practice at that time in
`
`1998 to have any documents notarized at all?
`
` A. No. That came out of experience.
`
` Q. What experience?
`
` A. I worked on a project when I was young
`
`and in college for a sand mine company and I had
`
`helped design some apparatus and felt like it was
`
`something that I had done and nobody else had
`
`thought of; and when they utilized this
`
`apparatus, they didn't give me any credit or show
`
`me any type of reward for doing it. And their
`
`expressed things to me was we have no way to know
`
`that you did this, you should just have gotten it
`
`notarized. So I thought from then on if I come
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 26
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 27
`
`1
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`up with something, I will notarize it.
`
` Q. Who was the other company that you are
`
`talking about?
`
` A. Uniman Sand Mining Company.
`
` Q. Say it again.
`
` A. Uniman Sand Mining Company.
`
` Q. When was that?
`
` A. It would be in 1987, around that area.
`
` Q. So between 1987 and December 21, 1998,
`
`did you have other papers notarized as well?
`
` A. No.
`
` Q. So since December 21, 1998 and the
`
`present, have you had other documents notarized?
`
` A. I have had other documents notarized.
`
` Q. Any with respect to things that you
`
`thought you invented?
`
` A. I have had one document notarized for an
`
`invention for an exercise piece of equipment that
`
`combines an elliptical machine and an overhead
`
`pull-down pulley.
`
` Q. When did you have that document
`
`notarized?
`
` A. I don't have it -- it has been like
`
`2007, 2008 maybe.
`
` Q. Any other document notarized with
`
`Alderson Reporting Company
`1-800-FOR-DEPO
`
`Medtronic, Medtronic Vascular,
`and Medtronic CoreValve
`Exhibit 1024 - Page 27
`
`
`
`Troy Ray Norred, M.D.
`
`Kansas City, MO
`
`October 8, 2014
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`
`2
`
`
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