Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014—00252
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`
`
`NETFLIX,
`
`INC.
`Petitioner,
`
`[
`|
`| Case IPR2014-00252
`v.
`|
`Patent 8,107,786
`INC.
`OPENTV,
`
`Patent Owner. |
`
`and transcribed under his direction.
`
`Monday, September 15, 2014
`
`2:00 p.m. EST
`
`DORIGINAL
`
`Teleconference before the Patent Trial and Appeals
`
`Board, Judge Justin Busch presiding,
`
`the proceedings
`
`being recorded stenographically by Jonathan Wonnell,
`
`RMR,
`
`a Registered Professional Court Reporter
`
`(NCRA
`
`#835577) and Notary Public of the State of Minnesota,
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`Page 1of14
`
`OPENTV EXHIBIT 2004
`
`NETFLIX, INC. v. OPENTV, INC.
`IPR2014~00252
`
`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`O F
`
`C O U N S E L
`
`(All participants appearing by phone)
`
`On behalf of the Patent Trial and Appeal
`
`Board:
`
`JUSTIN BUSCH, ESQ. and SALLY C. MEDLEY, ESQ.,
`
`Administrative Patent Judges
`
`
`
`On behalf of the Petitioner Netflix, Inc.:
`
`ANDREW S. EHMKE, ESQ.
`
`Haynes and Boone, LLP
`
`2323 Victory Avenue, Suite 700
`
`Dallas, Texas 75219
`
`(214) 651—5116
`
`andy.ehmke@haynesboone.com
`
`—— and -—
`
`SCOTT JARRATT, ESQ.
`
`Haynes and Boone, LLP
`
`2505 N. Plano Road, Suite 4000
`
`Richardson, Texas 75082
`
`(972) 739—8663
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlega1services.com
`
`202—220—4 1 5 8
`
`Page 2 of 14
`
`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`(Cont'd)
`
`On behalf of the Patent Owner OpenTV, Inc.:
`
`JOSHUA L. GOLDBERG, ESQ.
`
`Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett &
`
`—— and ——
`
`Dunner, LLP
`
`901 New York Avenue, N.W.
`
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`
`(202) 408—4000
`
`joshua.goldberg@finnegan.com
`
`-— and ——
`
`ANITA BHUSHAN, ESQ.
`
`Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett &
`
`Dunner, LLP
`
`3500 Sun Trust Plaza
`
`303 Peachtree, NE
`
`Atlanta, Georgia 30308—3263
`
`(404) 653—6400
`
`anita.bhushan@finnegan.com
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.henderson1egalservices.com
`
`202-220—4 1 5 8
`
`Page 3 of 14
`
`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`(Cont'd)
`
`On behalf of the Patent Owner OpenTV,
`
`Inc.
`
`(cont'd):
`
`EUGENE GORYUNOV, ESQ.
`
`Kirkland & Ellis LLP
`
`200 East Randolph Drive
`
`Chicago, Illinois 60601
`
`(312) 862—7059
`
`eugene.goryunov@kirkland.com
`
`PRESENT:
`
`JONATHAN WONNELL, Court Reporter,
`
`Henderson Legal Services
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`202-220-41 58
`
`Page 4 of 14
`
`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`P R O C E E D I N G S
`
`(2:00 p.m. EST)
`
`JUDGE BUSCH: Good afternoon,
`
`this is
`
`Judge Busch.
`
`I have Judge Medley with me on the
`
`line. This conference was requested by Patent
`
`Owner in IPR2014—00252.
`
`Counsel for Petitioner, please state
`
`your appearance.
`
`sure that neither of the parties have anyone else
`
`MR. EHMKE: Andy Ehmke and Scott Jarratt
`
`on behalf of NetFlix.
`
`JUDGE BUSCH:
`
`Thank you. Counsel for
`
`Patent Owner?
`
`MR. GOLDBERG: This is Joshua Goldberg
`
`for OpenTV and with me I have Eugene Goryunov and
`
`Anita Bhushan. Also I just wanted to let you know
`
`we have a court reporter on the line.
`
`JUDGE BUSCH:
`
`Thank you. And you'll
`
`upload a transcript when that's available?
`
`MR. GOLDBERG: Yes.
`
`JUDGE BUSCH:
`
`Thank you. Because of the
`
`late notice with the telephone call I want to make
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 5 of 14
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`that expects to join?
`
`MR. EHMKE: This is Petitioner, Your
`
`Honor. No, we are full in attendance on our end.
`
`MR. GOLDBERG: We are all ready on
`
`Patent Owner's side as well.
`
`JUDGE BUSCH: Okay. Great. This
`
`conference is requested by Patent Owner to confer
`
`about a motion to amend the claims;
`
`is that
`
`
`
`correct?
`
`MR. GOLDBERG: Yeah. We're planning to
`
`file a motion to amend the claims along with our
`
`Patent Owner response which is due next Monday.
`
`And currently we are planning to amend each of the
`
`independent claims to include some further
`
`limitations that find support in the specification.
`
`And per the rules we just wanted to request this
`
`call to discuss any issues that you would like to
`
`discuss, Your Honor.
`
`JUDGE BUSCH: Okay.
`
`I know that -- I
`
`believe counsel for both sides have plenty of
`
`experience in these IPR proceedings.
`
`I guess I'd
`
`just like to provide a few briefs reminders
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 6 of 14
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`7
`
`regarding the motion and then see if there are any
`
`questions or concerns.
`
`If you want the motion to be a
`
`contingent motion you need to make sure you
`
`indicate that,
`
`that it will be contingent on
`
`finding the claims unpatentable. Otherwise we
`
`won't
`
`look at the response.
`
`MR. GOLDBERG: Okay.
`
`
`
`JUDGE BUSCH: And as the rules state,
`
`motions limited to 15 pages. That includes the
`
`listing of the claims and so each substitute claim
`
`must be identified as a new claim number. And so
`
`in this case if you're proposing new claims for
`
`each of the independent claims, obviously you'll
`
`have a new claim number for each of those.
`
`If you're just focusing on the three
`
`independent claims it seems like you should not
`
`have a problem focusing your argument, especially
`
`with the similar scope of those three independent
`
`claims.
`
`You shouldn't have that much of a problem,
`
`I don't think, with presenting your arguments
`
`within that 15 pages.
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.corn
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 7 of 14
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`And as you probably know, generally
`
`speaking you'd want to show how these added
`
`features that you're planning on including are
`
`patentable over all the prior art.
`
`There are a handful of cases that if yOu
`
`haven't reviewed them we highly recommend you
`
`review prior to filing your motion to amend.
`
`These
`
`will provide some general guidance regarding what
`
`to include and how to approach your motions to
`
`amend.
`
`
`
`Nichia —— I'll provide you the matter
`
`numbers as well in case you don't have them
`
`available but I'll also provide them in an order
`
`after this call. Nichia is IPR2012—00005. And
`
`then Idle Free is IPR2012—00027.
`
`Each of these
`
`will provide some guidance regarding motions to
`
`amend.
`
`An additional case that in case you
`
`decide to add subsequent claims that are dependent
`
`claims it discusses how you want to consider those
`
`is ZTE Corp., and that's IPR2013—00136. And that
`
`will provide you some guidance on how you should
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.corn
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 8 of 14
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`9
`
`consider approaching any sort of arguments related
`
`to those as any new substitute dependent claims
`
`will entail new scope from what the old dependent
`
`claims included.
`
`And then, finally,
`
`the case that -- an
`
`example of a motion to amend that was granted is
`
`International Flavors and that is IPR2013—00124.
`
`If you don't have any other questions ——
`
`sorry.
`
`Those are really the only main points I
`
`wanted to raise just to make sure you have the
`
`right information to proceed.
`
`Do you have any questions, counsel for
`
`Patent Owner?
`
`MR. GOLDBERG: Not at this time.
`
`Thank
`
`you for the helpful guidance.
`
`JUDGE MEDLEY: Okay. Petitioner, do you
`
`have any questions or concerns?
`
`MR. EHMKE: This is Andy Ehmke. No, we
`
`do not, Your Honor.
`
`JUDGE BUSCH: Okay. That's it.
`
`The
`
`call is adjourned.
`
`
`
`MR. GOLDBERG:
`
`Thank you, Your Honor.
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.henderson1egalservices.com
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 9 of 14
`
`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014—00252
`
`10
`
`MR. EHMKE:
`
`Thank you.
`
`(Whereupon, at 2:05 p.m. EST the
`
`teleconference was adjourned.)
`
`*
`
`*
`
`*
`
`*
`
`*
`
`
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 10 of 14
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
`
`a Registered
`I, Jonathan Wonnell,
`Professional Court Reporter
`(NCRA #835577) and
`Notary Public of the State of Minnesota, County of
`Hennepin, do hereby certify that the foregoing
`transcript is a true and accurate record of these
`proceedings;
`that said proceedings were taken in
`Stenotype note by me on the 15th day of September,
`2014, commencing at 2:00 p.m. EST and ending at
`2:05 p.m. EST.
`I further certify that present on behalf
`of Party Netflix, Inc,. were Andrew S. Ehmke, Esq.,
`and Scott Jarratt, Esq., of Haynes and Boone, LLP.
`and on behalf of Party OpenTV was Joshua L. Goldberg,
`Esq. and Anita Bhushan, Esq., of Finnegan,
`Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP, and
`Eugene Goryunov, Esq., of Kirkland & Ellis, LLP;
`
`I further certify that I am not related
`to, nor associated with any of the parties or their
`attorneys, nor do I have any disqualifying
`interest, personal or financial,
`in the actions
`within.
`
`My Commission expires January 31, 2017
`
`Dated this 15th day of September, 2014,
`
`in Hennepin County, Minnesota.
`
`
`
`Jona
`
`Wonnell
`
`Notary Public, Hennepin County, Minnesota
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`202-220—4 1 5 8
`
`Page 11 of 14
`
`

`

`Conference Call
`
`IPR 2014—00252
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`1
`
`A
`
`believe 6:20
`
`est 1:8 52210:2
`
`5:14 11:9
`
`' bhushan 3:12
`3:19 52151128
`
`board 1:1,11 2:5
`
`corp 8:21
`correct 6:9
`
`counsel 5:7,11
`6:20 9:12
`
`accurate 11:3
`
`actions 11:11
`
`add 8:19
`
`added 8:2
`
`additional 8:18
`
`adjourned 9:21
`10:3
`
`administrative
`
`2:7
`
`afternoon 5:3
`
`amend 6:8,11,13
`
`8:7,10,17 9:6
`andrew 2: 11
`
`11:6
`
`andy 2: 16 5:9
`9: 1 8
`
`anita 3:12,19
`5:15 1 1 :8
`
`11:5,5
`eugene4:5,10
`5:14 11:9
`
`example 9:6
`expects 6:1
`experience 6:21
`expires 11:21
`
`f2:1
`
`farabow 3:5,13
`11:8
`
`features 8:3
`
`file 6:11
`
`filing 8:7
`finally 9:5
`financial 11:11
`
`find 6:15
`
`finding 726
`finnegan 3:5,10
`3213,19 11:8
`flavors 9:7
`
`granted 926
`great 6:6
`guess 6:21
`guidance 8:8,16
`8:22 9:15
`
`handful 8:5
`
`havent 8:6
`
`haynes 2: 12,19
`11:7
`
`haynesboone
`2:16
`
`helpful 9: 1 5
`henderson 3:5
`
`3:13 421511:8
`
`hennepin 11:3
`11:14,20
`highly 8:6
`honor 6:3,18
`
`9: 19,22
`
`boone2:12,19
`11:7
`
`county 11:2,14
`11:20
`
`briefs 6:22
`
`court 1:13 4:14
`
`busch1:112:6
`
`5:16 11:2
`
`523,4,11,17,20
`
`currently 6:13
`
`6:6,19 7:9 9:20
`
`(1 3:8 521
`
`c2:1,1,63:1,8
`4:1 5:1
`
`ca115z216:17
`
`8:14 9:21
`
`case 1:4 7:13
`
`8:12,18,18 9:5
`eases 8:5
`
`certificate 1121
`
`certify 11:3,6,10
`chicago 4:8
`claim 7:11,12,15
`
`dallas 2: 14
`
`dated 1 1 :13
`
`day 1 124,13
`decide 8: 19
`
`dependent 8:19
`9:2,3
`direction 1:15
`
`discuss 6:17,18
`discusses 8:20
`
`disqualifying
`11:1 1
`
`dont7:218:12
`
`F D C
`
`
`
`9:8
`
`drive 4:7
`
`due 6: 12
`
`focusing 7:16,18
`foregoing 11:3
`free 8:15
`
`full6:3
`
`dunner 3:6,14
`11:8
`11:6,10
`
`further 6:14
`
`G e
`
`E
`
`2:1,1,1 3:
`
`4:1,1 5:1,
`east4:7
`
`,11
`1
`
`appeal 1:1 2:4
`appeals 1:10
`appearance 5:8
`appearing 2:2
`approach 8:9
`approaching
`9:1
`
`argument 7: 1 8
`arguments 7:21
`9:1
`
`art 8:4
`
`associated 1 1 : 10
`
`atlanta 3 :17
`
`attendance 6:3
`
`attorneys 1 1 :1 1
`available 5: 18
`
`8:13
`
`avenue 2:13 3:7
`
`behalf2:4,10
`3:3 4:3 5:10
`
`11:6,7
`
`claims 6:8,11,14
`
`7:6,11,13,14
`
`7:17,20 8219
`
`8:20 9:2,4
`com 2:16 3:10
`
`3:19 4:10
`
`commencing
`11:5
`
`commission
`
`11:21
`
`concerns 7:2
`
`9:17
`
`confer 6:7
`
`conference 5:5
`
`6:7
`
`consider 8:20
`
`9:1
`
`contd3:14:1,4
`
`contingent 724,5
`
`—1
`id 6221
`
`identified 7: 12
`
`idle 8: 15
`
`ill 8: 1 1,13
`illinois 4:8
`
`include 6: 14 8:9
`
`included 9:4
`
`includes 7210
`
`including 8:3
`independent
`6: 14 7: 14,17
`7: 19
`
`indicate 7:5
`
`information
`
`9:1 1
`
`interest 1 1:1 1
`
`international
`
`g5:1
`garrett 3 25,13
`11:8
`
`genera18:8
`generally 8:1
`georgia 3:17
`goldberg 3:4,10
`5:13,13,19 6:4
`6:10 7:8 9:14
`
`9:22 11:7
`
`good 5:3
`goryunov 4:5,10
`
`9:7
`
`ipr 6:21
`
`ehmke2:11,16
`
`5:9,9 6:2 9:18
`9:1810:111:6
`
`ellis 4:6 11:9
`
`entail9:3
`
`especially 7:18
`esq2:6,6,11,18
`3:4,12 4:511:6
`
`11:7,8,8,9
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.corn
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Page 12 of 14
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`

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`Conference Call
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`2
`
`review 8:7
`prior 8:4,7
`3:14 4:6 11:7,8 okay 6:6,19 7:8
`ipr201200005
`reviewed 8:6
`probably 8:1
`11:9
`9216,20
`8: 14
`problem 7:18,20 richardson 2:21
`look 7:7
`old 9:3
`ipr201200027
`proceed 9:11
`right 9:11
`8:15 — opentv 1:4 3:3
`proceedings
`rmr1:13
`ipr201300124 L 4:3 5:14 11:7
`1:116:21 11:4
`road 2:20
`9:7
`m1:8 5:210:2
`order 8:13
`11:4
`rules 6:16 7:9
`ipr201300136
`1155
`owner 1:5 3:3
`professional
`8:21
`main 959
`4:3 526,12 6:7
`_S_-
`._
`1:13 11:2
`ipr201400252
`matter 8:11
`6:12 9:13
`5 2:121:11 331
`proposing 7:13
`1:4 5:6
`medley 236 534
`owners 6:5
`4:1 531 1136
`issues 6:17
`9116 — provide 6:22 8:8
`sally 2:6
`— minnesota 1:14 4 8:11,13,16,22
`scope7:199:3
`4 11:2,14,20
`p1:82:1,13:1,1
`public1214 11:2
`scott 2:18 5:9
`january 11:21
`monday 1:7
`4:1,1 5:1,2
`11:20
`11:7
`jarratt2:18 5:9
`6:12
`10:211:5,5
`_ see 7:1
`_ Q
`_
`1127
`motion 6:8,11
`pages 7:10,22
`september 1:7
`questions 7:2
`join 6:1
`7:1,3,4 8:7 9:6
`participants 2:2
`11:4,13
`9:8,12,17
`jonathan 1:12
`motions 7: 10
`parties 5:22
`4:1411:1,19
`829,16
`11:10 — services4215
`joshua 3:4,10 — party 11:6,7 4 shouldnt 7:20
`5:1311:7
`N
`_. patent1:1,1,4,5
`r2rl3=14215=1
`show8:2
`judge1:115:3,4 n2=1,1,20 321,7
`1:10 2:47 3:3
`raise9210
`side6:5
`5:4,11,17,2o
`4:1 5:1
`4:3 5:5,12 6:5
`randolph4r7
`sides 6:20
`6:6,19 7:9 9:16 ncra1=13 11:2
`6:7,12 9:13
`ready 6:4
`similar 7:19
`9:20
`ne 3316
`patentable 8:4
`really 939
`sorry 9:9
`judges 2:7
`need 734
`peachtree 3 :16
`recommend 816
`sort 9:1
`justin 1211 2:6
`neither 5322
`personal 11:11
`record 1113
`speaking 8:2
`— netfllx 1:3 2:10
`petitioner 13
`recorded 1:12
`specification
`+ 5:1011:6
`2:10 5:7 6:2
`regarding 7:1
`6:15
`kirkland 4:6,10
`new 3:7 7:12,13
`9:16
`828,16
`state 1:14 5:7
`11:9
`7:15 922,3
`phone 22
`registered 1:13
`7:9 112
`know 5:15 6:19
`nichia8:11,14
`planning6:10
`11:1
`states1:1
`8:1
`notary 1:14 11:2
`6: 13 8:3
`related 9:1
`stenographica...
`— 11.20
`plano2'20
`11-10
`1.12
`4 note 11:4
`plaza 3;15
`reminders 6:22
`stenotype 11;4
`12:1 3 :4 11:7
`notice 5121
`please 5:7
`reporter 1313
`subsequent 8:19
`late 5121
`number 7:12,15
`plenty 6:20
`4:14 5:16 11:1
`substitute 7:11
`legal 4315
`numbers 8:12
`points 99
`11:2
`92
`lim1tations 6:15 — present 4:13
`request 6:16
`suite 213,20
`11m1ted 7:10 —0 11:6
`requested 5:5
`sun 3 :15
`1111552551161
`05:1’1 51:17 14
`presenting 7:21
`637
`support 6:15
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 13 of 14
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`

`

`Conference Call
`
`September 15, 2014
`
`IPR 2014-00252
`
`9:10
`
`wonnell 1:12
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`3500 3:15
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`7
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`yeah 6:10
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`31 11:21
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`
`enderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`taken 11:4
`
`teleconference
`
`1:10 10:3
`
`telephone 5:21
`texas 2:14,21
`
`thank 5211,17
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`5:20 9:14,22
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`
`think 7:21
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`
`trademark 1:1
`
`transcribed
`
`1:15
`
`transcript 5:18
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`
`trial 1:1,10 2:4
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`
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`822,20
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`6:16 9:10
`
`washington 3:8
`
`202-220-415 8
`
`Page 14 of 14
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`