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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` __________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` __________
` GREENE'S ENERGY GROUP LLC
` Petitioner
` v.
` OIL STATES ENERGY SERVICES LLC
` Patent Owner
` __________
`
` Case IPR2014-00216
` Patent 6,179,053
`
` VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF
` MAX RICHARD WOOD
` Houston, Texas
` Thursday, November 13, 2014
`
`Reported by:
`MICHAEL E. MILLER, FAPR, RDR, CRR
`Notary Public
`JOB NO. 87047
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`GREENE'S ENERGY 1010
`Greene's Energy v. Oil States IPR2014-216
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` __________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` __________
` GREENE'S ENERGY GROUP LLC
` Petitioner
` v.
` OIL STATES ENERGY SERVICES LLC
` Patent Owner
` __________
`
` Case IPR2014-00216
` Patent 6,179,053
`
` VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF
` MAX RICHARD WOOD
` Houston, Texas
` Thursday, November 13, 2014
`
`Reported by:
`MICHAEL E. MILLER, FAPR, RDR, CRR
`Notary Public
`JOB NO. 87047
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` November 13, 2014
` 8:56 a.m.
`
` VIDEOTAPED ORAL DEPOSITION OF MAX
`RICHARD WOOD, held at the offices of Morgan
`Lewis & Bockius LLP, 1000 Louisiana Street,
`Suite 4000, Houston, Texas, pursuant to the
`Federal Rules of Civil Procedure before
`Michael E. Miller, Fellow of the Academy of
`Professional Reporters, Registered Diplomate
`Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter and Notary
`Public in and for the State of Texas.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
` FOLEY & LARDNER
` BY: JOHN FELDHAUS, ESQUIRE
` BRADLEY ROUSH, ESQUIRE
` 3000 K Street, NW
` Washington, D.C. 20007
` Counsel for Petitioner
`
` MORGAN LEWIS & BOCKIUS
` BY: C. ERIK HAWES, ESQUIRE
` 1000 Louisiana Street
` Houston, Texas 77002
` Counsel for Patent Owner
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Alison Meyer Vann, Esquire
` Oil States International Inc.
`
` Pam Longoria, Videographer
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` PROCEEDINGS
` (November 13, 2014 at 8:56 a.m.)
` (Deposition Exhibit 1025 marked.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the start
`of tape labeled number 1 of the videotaped
`deposition of Max Wood in the matter Greene's
`Energy Group v. Oil States Services LLC,
`Case No. IPR2014-00216.
` This deposition is being held at
`1000 Louisiana Street, Suite 4000, Houston,
`Texas, 77002, on November 13th, 2014, at
`approximately 8:56 a.m.
` My name is Pam Longoria. I am the
`Legal Video Specialist from TSG Reporting Inc.,
`headquartered at 747 Third Avenue, New York,
`New York. The court reporter is Mike Miller in
`association with TSG Reporting.
` Will counsel please introduce
`yourselves.
` MR. ROUSH: Brad Roush of Foley &
`Lardner for petitioner Greene's Energy Group.
` MR. FELDHAUS: John Feldhaus of
`Foley & Lardner for petitioner Greene's Energy
`Group.
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` MR. HAWES: Erik Hawes, Morgan
`Lewis & Bockius, for patent owner Oil States
`Energy Services, and with me is Alison Vann from
`the Oil States legal department.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court
`reporter please swear in the witness.
` MAX RICHARD WOOD,
` having been duly sworn,
` testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Good morning, Mr. Wood.
` Would you please state your full name
`for the record?
` A. Max Richard Wood.
` Q. And what is your current address?
` A. 1380 Bathurst Seventh Concession,
`Perth, Ontario K7H3C9.
` Q. And that's in Canada, correct?
` A. Canada, correct.
` Q. And do you maintain any residences in
`the United States?
` A. No, I do not.
` Q. Are you an attorney?
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` A. No, I am not.
` Q. Are you being represented by counsel
`today?
` A. Yes, I am.
` Q. And who is that counsel?
` A. Erik Hawes.
` Q. And when did Erik Hawes'
`representation of you begin?
` A. Today, as far as I know. Perhaps
`Erik can give you a different answer.
` Q. And do you understand that you are
`testifying here today about a declaration by you
`that was submitted by Oil States in an inter
`partes review proceeding before the United States
`Patent & Trademark Office?
` A. I do.
` Q. I'm going to introduce Exhibit 2022,
`Declaration of Max R. Wood, in the 2014-216 IPR
`investigation. And is this a copy of that
`declaration?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. And as far as you're aware, all the
`statements made in this declaration are true and
`correct?
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` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. Were you compensated in any way for
`providing this declaration?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Are you being compensated in any way
`for your testimony here today?
` A. Certainly expenses are being paid,
`yes, sir.
` Q. And what expenses are being paid?
` A. Air travel, hotel.
` Q. Lost time?
` A. Perhaps. That has not been
`discussed.
` Q. What is your understanding as to your
`compensation for your lost time?
` A. My understanding is that I would
`probably bill it at my hourly rate.
` Q. And what is that hourly rate?
` A. $300 Canadian.
` Q. And would you also bill the time you
`spent preparing this declaration at that rate?
` A. Not to the best of my knowledge, no.
` Q. So you're only getting reimbursed for
`lost time -- strike that.
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` It's your understanding that you're
`probably getting reimbursed for your lost time
`only concerning this deposition here today?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And who would be reimbursing you?
` A. Oil States Energy Services.
` Q. Do you own any stock in Oil States?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Do you have any contractual
`obligations to Oil States?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Have you ever been deposed before?
` A. I have not.
` Q. Are you familiar with the rules of a
`deposition?
` A. Only peripherally.
` Q. That I'm basically going to ask you a
`series of questions, and you're expected to give,
`as far as you know, truthful answers and --
` A. Of course.
` Q. -- if you want to take a break, feel
`free to do so. Just let me know.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Did you prepare for your deposition
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`today?
` A. Prepare, yes.
` Q. How did you prepare?
` A. We just discussed briefly what
`questions we thought might be asked.
` Q. And who is "we"?
` A. Erik and I.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone else?
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. Did you meet with Ms. Vann?
` A. Ms. Vann was there. We didn't have
`any discussions.
` Q. Did you speak with Mr. Murray Dallas
`in preparation for your deposition today?
` A. I did not.
` Q. Who is your current employer?
` A. Myself.
` Q. And when you say yourself, you're
`self-employed?
` A. I am president of Wood Hunt
`Consulting, which is my -- the company that I own
`and work with, work for.
` Q. Sure. And so what is Wood Hunt
`Consulting?
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` A. It's a patent agent consultancy in
`Canada.
` Q. In Canada.
` And what does a patent agent
`consultancy do?
` A. Drafts patent applications,
`prosecutes Canadian patent applications.
` Q. Do you draft U.S. patent
`applications?
` A. Occasionally, yes.
` Q. Do you prosecute U.S. patent
`applications?
` A. I do not.
` Q. Have you ever prosecuted a
`U.S. patent application?
` A. I have.
` Q. How many U.S. patent applications
`have you prosecuted?
` A. I'm sorry, I don't know.
` Q. Do you have a rough estimate?
` A. Perhaps more than 20, less than a
`hundred.
` Q. When was the last time you prosecuted
`a U.S. patent application?
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` A. That would have been 2000, the year
`2000.
` Q. And did you -- was that a patent
`application of Mr. Murray Dallas?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Did you ever prosecute a U.S. patent
`application of Mr. Murray Dallas?
` A. No, sir.
` Q. Going back to Wood Hunt Consulting,
`does Wood Hunt Consulting have any employees
`besides yourself?
` A. No. There's another shareholder, my
`wife, Jeanette Hunt Wood.
` Q. And is she also a patent prosecutor?
` A. She is not.
` Q. So where did you go to college?
` A. Purdue University.
` Q. And is that in Indiana?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And what degree did you receive?
` A. Bachelor of Science.
` Q. And then what did you do after --
`strike that.
` Is that a Bachelor's of Science in
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`what?
` A. It was biology and mathematics.
` Q. Okay. And where -- what did you do
`after graduating college?
` A. Is that relevant?
` Q. I'm trying to establish your
`background and just your job history.
` A. Well, I became a computer systems
`analyst before I trained and qualified as a
`Canadian patent agent.
` Q. And when did you train and become
`qualified as a Canadian patent agent?
` A. I started training in 1987.
`I qualified in 1990.
` Q. And when did you begin working for a
`patent prosecution firm?
` A. That would have been 1986 or '87.
` Q. And what was the name of the first
`firm you worked for?
` A. Scott & Aylen.
` Q. And what were your -- what was your
`job at Scott & Aylen?
` A. Patent agent trainee.
` Q. And did you become a patent agent
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`after that?
` A. Yes, sir.
` Q. And when did you become a patent
`agent?
` A. 1990.
` Q. And for how long were you a patent
`agent at Scott & Aylen?
` A. Until 1997.
` Q. And what happened in 1997?
` A. I was asked to become managing
`partner of Swabey Ogilvy Renault in their Ottawa
`office.
` Q. And what is Swabey Ogilvy Renault?
` A. Swabey Ogilvy Renault no longer
`exists, but at that time, it was a patent agency
`firm, Canadian patent agency firm.
` Q. And for how long were you a partner
`of Swabey Ogilvy Renault?
` A. 1997 to February of -- February
`the 1st of 2006.
` Q. And what did you do after
`February 1st, 2006?
` A. I incorporated Wood Hunt Consulting
`and worked from that office.
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` Q. And since that time, have you been
`working for Wood Hunt Consulting?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. If you'd turn to page -- paragraph 2
`of your declaration, it says, "Since
`October 17th, 1996, I've been a registered patent
`agent before the United States Patent & Trademark
`Office."
` When did you take the patent bar
`exam?
` A. I did not take a patent bar exam.
`It's a registration process only if you're a
`qualified Canadian patent agent.
` Q. And when did you begin that
`registration process?
` A. It would have been probably sometime
`in the summer of 1996. I do not remember.
` Q. And you -- but you understand that as
`a patent agent before the USPTO, you have a duty
`of candor towards the USPTO?
` A. Absolutely.
` Q. And what is your understanding of
`that duty of candor?
` MR. HAWES: Objection, relevance, way
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`outside the scope of direct.
` MR. ROUSH: Are you instructing him
`not to answer?
` MR. HAWES: No, not yet.
` A. My understanding is that anything of
`relevance must be made of record in the United
`States patent office.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And you also -- part of that
`understanding is to not submit false statements
`to the United States patent office?
` A. Absolutely.
` Q. Does the Canadian patent office have
`a similar requirement?
` MR. HAWES: Objection, relevance,
`outside the scope of direct.
` A. It's not exactly the same, but there
`is the same requirement. It's a little
`different.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. There's an expectation that
`submissions to the Canadian patent office are to
`be truthful, correct?
` MR. HAWES: Same objection.
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` A. Of course.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. When was the first time you ever
`heard of a company known as Stinger Wellhead
`Protection?
` A. Well, it would have been when it was
`instituted, which I believe was 1998, but I
`can't -- I cannot verify that that's correct.
` Q. Okay. And when was the first time
`you met Mr. Murray Dallas?
` A. First time I met him --
` Q. Yes.
` A. -- in person would have been around
`1998 or maybe later. Could have been later. It
`could have been 2000.
` Q. So --
` A. I cannot remember exactly.
` Q. So prior to that, you had not met
`Mr. Dallas in person?
` A. I had not.
` Q. So when was the first time you heard
`the name Mr. Murray Dallas?
` A. That would have been 1997, I believe.
`1996-1997.
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` Q. And how did you come to know
`Mr. Dallas?
` A. He inquired at Scott & Aylen for
`someone to draft a patent application for him,
`and I was assigned that task.
` Q. Do you happen to recall which patent
`application you were assigned to draft?
` A. I recall the invention. I don't
`recall the patent number, no.
` Q. Which invention was that?
` A. That was his first wellhead isolation
`tube, which was an in -- what they call in-tubing
`tool.
` Q. Was Mr. Dallas the only named
`inventor of this invention?
` A. No, he was not.
` Q. Who was the other inventor?
` A. I'm sorry, I cannot recall.
` Q. Does the name Garner ring a bell?
` A. Oh, yes. Garner, that's correct.
` Q. So -- and then since that time, did
`you draft all of Mr. Dallas' patent applications?
` A. To the best of my knowledge -- well,
`until recently, to the best of my knowledge, yes.
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` Q. And what do you mean, "until
`recently"?
` A. I no longer draft -- well, Mr. Dallas
`sold his company in 2005, I believe, and so that
`was -- I have not drafted any patent applications
`for him since that date.
` Q. And prior to drafting patent
`applications for Mr. Dallas, did you have any
`experience in the oil and gas field?
` A. Nothing substantial, no.
` Q. Anything to do with fracking?
` A. Not that I recall, no. That's been a
`long time ago.
` Q. When you began drafting patent
`applications for Mr. Dallas, where was Mr. Dallas
`located?
` A. Alberta.
` Q. And at that time, he was the
`president of Stinger?
` A. At that time, Stinger did not exist.
` Q. Did Mr. Dallas belong to any company?
` A. I'm sorry, I cannot answer that.
` Q. Is it your understanding that
`Mr. Dallas was filing these patent applications
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`like a -- basically as a solo inventor, on his
`own?
` A. He was not a solo inventor. My
`understanding was that he and Mr. Garner were
`filing a patent application independently of any
`company. I did not recall any assignment.
` Q. How many patent applications have you
`prepared for Mr. Dallas?
` A. I cannot say with certainty.
` Q. Now, you never -- you're saying you
`never prosecuted a U.S. patent application for
`Mr. Dallas, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. But you drafted the patent
`applications, correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So would you send the patent
`applications, after you drafted, to U.S. counsel?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. And who was that U.S. counsel?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question.
` A. I'm not certain that I can tell you
`every firm in the early days. As of late, it is
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`Nelson Mullins Riley Scarborough, something.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And which individuals -- excuse me,
`which attorneys?
` A. It changed, and I'm not certain that
`I can recall the names.
` Q. As far as you're aware, when did
`Mr. Dallas start Stinger -- Stinger U.S.?
` MR. HAWES: Objection, relevance,
`outside the scope of direct.
` A. As far as I'm aware, it was probably
`in 1988, although I had no contact with him at
`that time, so I'm not sure.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Did you ever communicate with anyone
`at Stinger besides Mr. Dallas?
` MR. HAWES: Same objections.
` A. When?
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Actually starting, let's say,
`beginning with the -- beginning with the 1997
`time frame.
` A. My communications with Mr. Dallas at
`that time would have been very rare, because he
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`was always in the field. I would speak with his
`assistant, I guess you would call her.
` Q. And what was her name?
` A. I'm sorry, I do not recall.
` And usually those weren't spoken. It
`was facsimile communications, or sometimes
`e-mail.
` Q. When -- did you have a procedure with
`Mr. Dallas as to how patent applications would be
`filed on his behalf?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question, relevance, outside the scope of direct.
` A. I had basically a directive to get
`the application filed and prosecuted, and I was
`to, as Mr. Dallas used to write, take care of it.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. So Mr. Dallas would send you an idea
`via either fax or e-mail, then you would take
`care of it?
` MR. HAWES: Same objections.
` A. That's correct.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And would Mr. Dallas inform you if
`something he was seeking to be patented was in
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`commercial use at the time?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question.
` And I instruct the witness not to
`answer to the extent it calls for the content of
`attorney-client communications.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Are you able to answer besides -- are
`you going to accept your counsel's instruction?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you aware of any answer to my
`question that you do not believe would be covered
`by attorney-client privilege?
` A. No.
` Q. Now, when Mr. Dallas informed you
`that he would like a patent application filed,
`what types of information would he send you?
` A. He would send me a sketch that he
`drew by hand, and normally a paragraph or two
`that he wrote by hand, and it would be received
`by facsimile.
` Q. And did you maintain copies of those
`records?
` A. At the time, I'm certain that they
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`were saved, yes. I have no copies.
` Q. And what happened to all of your
`copies of records concerning Mr. Dallas?
` A. I was instructed -- after Mr. Dallas
`sold the company, I was instructed to deliver all
`of my files to Oil States Energy Services or --
`I'm not sure it was called that at the time, but
`to Oil States.
` Q. Was Mr. Dallas heavily involved in
`the prosecution of his patents?
` A. No, he was not.
` Q. I want to be clear: Did you ever
`communicate with anyone besides Mr. Dallas or
`Mr. Dallas' secretary concerning his patent
`applications?
` A. Not -- no.
` Q. Was it your understanding that
`Mr. Dallas' patent applications disclosed devices
`that were already in existence?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question.
` A. No, it was not.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And you said you never prosecuted any
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`of Mr. Dallas' U.S. applications?
` A. That's correct.
` MR. HAWES: Objection, asked and
`answered.
` A. I did not.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And so did -- as far as you're aware,
`did Mr. Dallas ever communicate with U.S. counsel
`concerning his patent litigations?
` MR. HAWES: Objection, relevance,
`outside the scope of direct.
` A. I cannot answer that question.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And why can you not answer that
`question?
` MR. HAWES: Same objections.
` A. I had no knowledge of...
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. You had no knowledge of any
`communications between Mr. Dallas and U.S.
`counsel?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Have you ever drafted patent
`applications for Oil States?
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` A. Yes.
` Q. What patent applications have you
`drafted for Oil States?
` A. Is that -- how can I answer that
`question?
` Q. When have you drafted patent
`applications for Oil States?
` A. Between 2005 and, I believe, 2011,
`perhaps.
` Q. And are you currently prosecuting any
`patent applications for Oil States?
` A. Yes.
` Q. How many patent applications are you
`prosecuting for Oil States?
` A. I could only guess. Three or four,
`perhaps.
` Q. And do you happen to know who the
`inventors of those patents are?
` A. I do not.
` Q. What is your relationship to Oil
`States?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question.
` A. I'm an independent contractor.
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`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Do you currently have a relationship
`with Mr. Dallas?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question.
` A. A business relationship?
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Yes.
` A. No.
` Q. Personal?
` A. I know him. I have not seen him for
`about eight years, but I certainly know him. I
`would consider him a friend.
` Q. When was the last time you spoke with
`Mr. Dallas?
` A. The best of my recollection, it was
`about eight years ago at his home in Streetman,
`Texas. He had a housewarming party.
` Q. So eight years ago would have been
`about 2005?
` A. Or -- it must have been after 2005,
`because he built a house in Streetman after he
`sold his company. So it would have been after
`2005. Perhaps 2006 or 2007. I'm not sure.
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` Q. Have you ever spoken with Mr. Dallas
`about this inter partes review proceeding?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question.
` You can answer that yes or no,
`without revealing the content of any
`communications.
` THE WITNESS: Could you repeat that
`question, please?
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. Have you ever spoken with Mr. Dallas
`about this inter partes review proceeding?
` MR. HAWES: Same objection and
`instruction.
` A. Inter partes review proceeding.
`Aside from client privileged communication, I
`have not.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. I guess my -- so what is your
`understanding as to attorney-client privilege in
`this circumstance?
` MR. HAWES: Objection. He's not
`going to give you a legal explanation of the law
`of attorney-client privilege.
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`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. So -- okay. You are not an attorney,
`correct?
` A. I am not.
` Q. Mr. Dallas is not an attorney,
`correct?
` A. That's correct. I have never spoken
`to him one-on-one about this.
` Q. So when you say you've never spoken
`to him one-on-one, someone else was present when
`you spoke to him about this?
` A. That's correct -- well, it was never
`in person either. It would have been by
`telephone.
` Q. Would it have been by conference
`call?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And who would have been on the
`conference call?
` A. Counsel.
` Q. Is that counsel Mr. Hawes?
` A. Would have been one, yes.
` Q. Who else would have been on the call?
` A. I can't recall.
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` Q. So is it your understanding you were
`being represented by Mr. Hawes during these
`calls?
` A. Represented by Mr. Hawes? Why would
`he have occasion to represent me during these
`calls?
` Q. Well, I mean, did you believe that
`you were Mr. Hawes' client at the time?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the form of the
`question and the relevance. And, again, way
`outside the scope of direct.
` MR. ROUSH: You still have to answer
`the question.
` THE WITNESS: I'm not certain that I
`understand your question. Could you rephrase it,
`please?
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. When you were speaking on a
`conference call with Mr. Dallas and Oil States'
`attorneys --
` A. I was not speaking with Mr. Dallas.
`Mr. Dallas was participating in a conference call
`with Oil States -- with Mr. Hawes, and I was
`present on the call. There was no conversation
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`between us. We were participants in a group
`conference call.
` Q. And when was the first time you had
`one of these conference calls?
` A. I don't know. It was...
` Q. Do you have any idea?
` MR. HAWES: Objection, relevance,
`outside the scope of direct.
` A. Well, I would assume that it was
`sometime after the IPR was filed. That would be
`the correct -- the logical assumption.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And you understand as part of this
`inter partes review proceeding, there's a
`litigation with my client, Greene's Energy Group?
` A. I do.
` Q. When was the first time you heard of
`Oil States' dispute with Greene's Energy Group?
` MR. HAWES: Objection, relevance,
`outside the scope of direct. We've got to rein
`this in. If you're starting to ask questions
`about the litigation, we're going to have to stop
`this and get a call with the Board going.
` A. I do not recall.
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`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And you said you don't recall the
`first time you learned of the inter partes review
`proceeding?
` A. I do not. I would assume that it was
`sometime after it was filed, but I do not recall
`the time frame, no.
` Q. Do you recall when you were asked to
`submit a declaration in the inter partes review
`proceeding?
` A. This declaration?
` Q. Yes.
` A. This was August the 8th --
`August 27th, 2014, so it would have been a day or
`two before that, I would assume, yes.
` Q. And was it your idea to submit a
`declaration in this inter partes review
`proceeding?
` A. It was not.
` Q. And who approached you about
`submitting a declaration in this inter partes
`review proceeding?
` A. Mr. Hawes.
` Q. And what did Mr. Hawes ask you to do?
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` MR. HAWES: Objection. Instruct the
`witness not to answer that question.
` MR. ROUSH: What's the basis for your
`privilege objection?
` MR. HAWES: What's the basis for the
`attorney-client privilege objection?
` MR. ROUSH: Are you saying it's
`attorney-client privilege?
` MR. HAWES: Yes.
` MR. ROUSH: What's the basis for your
`attorney-client privilege objection?
` MR. HAWES: As counsel for Oil
`States, I was discussing issues relating to the
`IPR with an agent of Oil States.
`BY MR. ROUSH:
` Q. And are you currently an agent of Oil
`States?
` MR. HAWES: Object to the f
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