`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`-------------------------:
`HARMONIX MUSIC SYSTEMS, :
`INC., :
` :
` Petitioner, : Case No. IPR2014-00155
` :
` vs. : Patent 5, 513,129
` :
`PRINCETON DIGITAL IMAGE :
`CORPORATION, :
` :
` Patent Owner. :
`-------------------------:
`
` Washington, D.C.
` Tuesday, September 30, 2014
`Deposition of:
`
` JAY P. KESAN, PH.D.,
`called for oral examination by counsel for
`Petitioner, pursuant to notice, at the Law Offices
`of Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner,
`LLP, before Nancy J. Martin, RMR/CSR, of Capital
`Reporting Company, beginning at 9:37 a.m., when were
`present on behalf of the respective parties:
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 1 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`4
`
`5
`
`1 P R O C E E D I N G S
`2 WHEREUPON,
`3 JAY P. KESAN, PH.D.
`4 called as a witness, and having been first duly
`5 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
`67
`
` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR PETITIONER
`8 BY MS. THAYER:
`9 Q. Good morning. We met earlier, but I'm Linda
`10 Thayer, and thank you for your time today.
`11 A. You're welcome.
`12 Q. Before we get started, we're going to go over
`13 a few things. As you see, we have water and beverages
`14 here. And if you need to take a break, just let me
`15 know. We'll finish the question and then take a
`16 break.
`17 A. Yes.
`18 Q. I see from your CV that you've been an expert
`19 before?
`20 A. Yes, I have.
`21 Q. So I'm assuming you've been deposed before?
`22 A. Yes, I have.
`
`2
`
`3
`
`1 Q. We -- perhaps your attorney has explained
`2 that this is a deposition in an interparties
`3 re-examination, which is a patent office practice and
`4 not a district court litigation. Has he?
`5 A. Yes.
`6 Q. And so in this sense, the cross-examination
`7 of an expert such as yourself that has submitted a
`8 declaration is a little different than in district
`9 court litigation. For example, once the testimony
`10 begins, you're not allowed to consult or confer with
`11 your counsel or he with you except as to discuss
`12 whether something is a matter of privilege.
`13 A. Yes.
`14 MS. THAYER: So I'm handing you a copy of
`15 Exhibit 1005. I'm sorry. Can I take that back. It's
`16 the wrong exhibit.
`17 (Pause in proceedings.)
`18 MS. THAYER: Let's go off the record for a
`19 second.
`20 (A recess was taken from 9:38 a.m.
`21 to 9:46 a.m.)
`22 (Previously marked Exhibit 1001.)
`
`1 A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`23
`
`On behalf of Petitioner:
`4 LINDA J. THAYER, ESQ.
` FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW, GARRETT &
`5 DUNNER, LLP
` Two Seaport Lane
`6 Boston, Massachusetts 02210
` linda.thayer@finnegan.com
`7 (617) 646-1600
`
`89
`
`10
`
`On behalf of the Patent Owner:
`
`11
`
` D. GREGORY GONSALVES, ESQ.
`12 GONSALVES LAW FIRM
` 2216 Beacon Lane
`13 Falls Church, Virginia 22043
` (571) 419-7252
`14 gonsalve@gonsalveslawfirm.com
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`1 C O N T E N T S
`2 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
`3 Counsel for Petitioner 4
`4 Counsel for Patent Owner 53
`
`56
`
` E X H I B I T S
`7 DEPOSITION EXHIBITS: * PAGE
`8 Exhibit 2006 Declaration of Jay P. Kesan, 18
` 18 pages
`
`9
`
`Exhibit 2007 Curriculum Vitae, 17 pages 49
`
`10
`11
`12 EXHIBITS PREVIOUSLY MARKED
`13 Exhibit 1001 U.S. Patent 5,513,129, 23 pages 5
`14 Exhibit 1007 Leonardo, Volume 25, No. 1, 39
`15 1992, 11 pages
`16
`17 (* Exhibits attached to transcript.)
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 2 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 MS. THAYER: So sorry about that.
`2 I'm now handing you a copy of U.S. Patent
`3 No. 5,513,129, which has been marked in this
`4 proceeding as Exhibit 1001. I'll also refer to that
`5 as "the '129 patent."
`6 Q. I'm assuming you've seen this before?
`7 A. Yes.
`8 Q. In fact, you provided testimony in the form
`9 of a declaration regarding this patent, didn't you?
`10 A. Yes.
`11 Q. What claims did you opine on in your
`12 declaration?
`13 A. As I recall, they were Claims 10, 11, 22, and
`14 23.
`15 Q. And what conclusion did you reach in your
`16 declaration with regard to these claims?
`17 A. I concluded that the four claims were valid
`18 in light of the two prior art references, Fallacaro
`19 and Pocock, P-o-c-o-c-k, Williams.
`20 Q. So let's turn to the last page of the patent
`21 where the claims are.
`22 A. Yes.
`
`1 Q. If you could look at Claim 11.
`2 A. Yes.
`3 Q. Do you see the element that says that
`4 "operating the computer system in response to both the
`5 audio signal and the prerecorded control track"?
`6 A. Yes.
`7 Q. In that claim what does "operating" mean to
`8 you?
`9 A. To me it means that you're executing some
`10 software and hardware, which is what the computer
`11 system is.
`12 Q. What would be the "computer system" that that
`13 claim is referring to?
`14 A. I think it's just a general computer system
`15 that that claim simply says it's a computer system.
`16 Q. What does it mean to operate something in
`17 response to "both the audio system and the control
`18 track"?
`19 A. To me that means that, you know, the audio
`20 signal and the prerecorded control track, which is
`21 based on the audio signal, are both in some way
`22 providing inputs into the operating system -- into the
`
`8
`
`9
`
`6
`
`7
`
`1 computer system. Not operating system. Sorry.
`2 Computer system.
`3 Q. Could the audio signal be providing indirect
`4 input into the computer system?
`5 A. Yeah. I mean I don't see anything about --
`6 just looking at the claim, I don't see anything about
`7 direct or indirect in there.
`8 Q. Could the audio be playing in the background?
`9 A. Well, it has to be in response to it. I
`10 mean, in other words, the computer system has got to
`11 operate in a manner that is responsive to it.
`12 Q. Let's look now at Claims 22 and 23. Do you
`13 see where Claim 22 recites two elements? "A means for
`14 prerecording a control track having audio and/or
`15 control information corresponding to an audio signal;
`16 and a processor which receives the control track and
`17 which is programmed with software for operating the
`18 computer in response to the control track"? Do you
`19 see that?
`20 A. Yes.
`21 Q. Do you have an understanding how terms
`22 beginning with the phrase "means for" should be
`
`1 construed?
`2 A. I think so.
`3 Q. What's your understanding?
`4 A. My understanding is that if it's means for
`5 prerecording or means for, you know, doing some
`6 function, then I have to look in the disclosure to try
`7 and figure out what is that means that performs that
`8 function.
`9 Q. In your declaration what did you testify was
`10 the structure that corresponds to the means for
`11 prerecording a control track?
`12 A. As I recall, in my declaration, I was
`13 pointing to the elements drawn from Figure 5 of the
`14 '129 patent.
`15 Q. Which elements in Figure 5?
`16 A. So, again, I don't have the declaration in
`17 front of me, but, you know, you had a media player and
`18 you had microprocessors that generated the control
`19 track and then you had the tape converters and then
`20 you have the second media player, and then you have
`21 these digital and analog inputs and then you have the
`22 synchronizer. I think those are the elements that I
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 3 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 was referring to.
`2 Q. So it takes all of those components working
`3 together to be the means for prerecording?
`4 A. Yes.
`5 Q. Why not just, for example, the tape-recorder
`6 that is Element 180?
`7 A. That's the sort of -- the way that the patent
`8 teaches this is that you basically have the output
`9 tape-recorder there, which is the Item 180 that you're
`10 describing, that is then used to drive the virtual
`11 reality system. So it's this tape-recorder that takes
`12 the audio and the control track inputs, and that is
`13 what drives the virtual reality system as shown in
`14 Figure 6. So you'll see the same 180 is what drives.
`15 So that's what's going on.
`16 So it's a disassertive -- the content in that
`17 tape-recorder is what drives the VR system.
`18 Q. So in the context of Figure -- or Claim 22,
`19 where does it say it drives the VR system?
`20 A. You know, that's what a processor which
`21 receives the control track and which is programmed
`22 with software for operating, that's what's going on.
`
`1 Q. So is recording the same as storing?
`2 MR. GONSALVES: Well, objection.
`3 THE WITNESS: I mean, I guess it might be. I
`4 mean I don't see any mention of storing in this
`5 particular claim, but I mean -- or, you know, but, you
`6 know, you're recording, and then you might store the
`7 recording.
`8 BY MS. THAYER:
`9 Q. How does recording differ than storing, in
`10 your opinion?
`11 A. Well, you're recording something. You know,
`12 you might be recording it and it may just really be
`13 such that you're recording it in a manner that is not
`14 in some way sort of permanent or semi-permanent. You
`15 know, you're -- and, you know, it might be stored in
`16 some medium where it's not really meant to last long.
`17 Q. Can you right now think of an example where
`18 you would record something but it wasn't stored,
`19 whether permanently or temporarily, even if
`20 fleetingly?
`21 A. I mean, there are -- I mean I'm just simply
`22 saying -- as an engineer I would say that there are
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`1 That these means here, which includes, you know, what
`2 I described, that with the audio and the control
`3 track, that is what drives the processor.
`4 Q. Is it your testimony that the processor in
`5 Claim 22 has to be a virtual reality processor?
`6 A. It doesn't say that. It just says it's
`7 simply a processor.
`8 Q. But the means for prerecording, is it your
`9 testimony that it needs -- the corresponding structure
`10 needs to comprise all of the components to prerecord
`11 and not just store?
`12 A. Yeah. I think it's just simply saying that
`13 you're putting the audio in the control tracks, and
`14 you're basically prerecording them. And that
`15 prerecording track, it includes basically the audio
`16 itself and the control information that is based on
`17 the audio.
`18 Q. What's your definition of "recording"?
`19 A. Recording just means that you are in some way
`20 fixing things -- and these are just my words here --
`21 in some medium so that you can go back and retrieve
`22 that context. I mean that's the purpose of recording.
`
`1 times when you simply record, you know. And it's an
`2 intermediate thing to something else, and you're just
`3 sort of -- you know, that's not what you really want
`4 to store. You're doing something with that signal, or
`5 you're -- it's -- these things happen where you
`6 basically get some, you know, input or output from
`7 somewhere and then are doing something with it, and
`8 I'm going to record it, but I really wanted to do
`9 something with it.
`10 Q. Even in that case, though, isn't it
`11 temporarily stored in some capacity so that you could
`12 forward it?
`13 A. Yeah. When I think of -- I thought where you
`14 were sort of -- I thought you were sort of thinking of
`15 this as sort of more permanent storage. You know,
`16 hey, I'm sort of, you know, storing it for something
`17 else. But I suppose you -- I mean you might be able
`18 to store it fleetingly.
`19 Q. Well, so what's the -- what's your
`20 understanding of the word "prerecording"?
`21 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`22 THE WITNESS: I mean I think what is going on
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 4 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 there is that you're sort of setting things up.
`2 That's -- when you look at this sort of the teaching
`3 of the patent, you've got that patrol track that
`4 you've generated, and you've recorded it. And then
`5 that is then going to be used as an input.
`6 BY MS. THAYER:
`7 Q. So it was stored before?
`8 A. Right. Or it's sort of -- yeah. Yes, stored
`9 before, yeah.
`10 Q. Is there any figure in the '129 patent that
`11 shows a -- both of these elements in the same figure?
`12 The elements of Claim 22?
`13 A. By the two elements, you mean for
`14 prerecording and the processing?
`15 Q. Correct.
`16 A. So the common element is the -- is I guess
`17 the tape. For example, the common element is the
`18 Tape 180.
`19 Q. I was asking you if there's any figure that
`20 shows both the means for prerecording and a processor
`21 in the same figure. Any figure in the patent that
`22 shows a computer system that comprises both the means
`
`1 for prerecording and a processor which receives the
`2 control track?
`3 A. Yeah. I mean I'm just simply saying that if
`4 you kind of look at it, one could -- I mean it's a
`5 system. So one could simply take all of Figure 6 and
`6 just put it right there next to 180, and that's the
`7 system.
`8 Q. What is shown in Figure 6?
`9 A. Figure 6 is basically the -- it's basically
`10 the, you know, decoding, if you will. It's basically
`11 how the prerecorded tracks are used to control the
`12 virtual reality system and --
`13 Q. I think it calls Figure 6 --
`14 A. Play back system.
`15 Q. -- play back.
`16 A. Yeah. I was just simply saying that you
`17 could put this right next to that (indicating).
`18 That's what that is.
`19 Q. You're referring to Figure 5 and Figure 6
`20 with your hand motions?
`21 A. Right. Sorry. It's hard to --
`22 Q. So are you saying that a -- strike that.
`
`16
`
`17
`
`14
`
`15
`
`1 So in Claim 22 the means for prerecording
`2 element uses the words "and/or." Do you see that?
`3 A. Yes.
`4 Q. What does "and/or" mean to you?
`5 A. I guess it could use the audio signal and use
`6 the control information from the audio signal. Or,
`7 you know, corresponding to the audio signal. Or it
`8 could use the audio signal or the control information
`9 corresponding to the audio signal. I guess use both
`10 or either one.
`11 Q. So then Claim 22 could, in its simplest
`12 sense, comprise a means for prerecording of control
`13 track having just audio and a processor which
`14 receives -- strike that.
`15 So Claim 22, in its simplest sense, could
`16 comprise just a means for prerecording control
`17 information corresponding to the audio and a processor
`18 which receives the control check. Isn't that correct?
`19 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`20 THE WITNESS: No. I think it has to either
`21 be a control track having audio or control information
`22 corresponding to the audio. That's one possibility.
`
`1 Another possibility is that it -- having audio
`2 information and control information corresponding to
`3 the audio signal.
`4 BY MS. THAYER:
`5 Q. So in your first example you said it could
`6 have either/or -- either audio or control information
`7 corresponding to the audio. Isn't that right?
`8 A. Yes.
`9 Q. So why couldn't the computer system just have
`10 a means for prerecording one when you said it could
`11 have one or the other?
`12 A. I'm just saying the claim could have -- would
`13 basically say one or the other. That's what it would
`14 say. That's all I'm saying.
`15 Q. You said that the multiple components on
`16 Figure 5 are what you believe is the structure
`17 corresponding to the means for prerecording; is that
`18 correct?
`19 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`20 THE WITNESS: Yeah. The elements for the
`21 means of a prerecording are, you know, shown partly in
`22 Figure 5.
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 5 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 BY MS. THAYER:
`2 Q. You mentioned earlier the -- strike that.
`3 (Deposition Exhibit 2006 was marked for
`4 identification.)
`5 MS. THAYER: I'm handing you now what you
`6 attached as Exhibit 2006 -- or what's been labeled
`7 2006. Do you recognize this as your declaration?
`8 A. Yes, I do.
`9 Q. My apologies we did not attach the cover
`10 sheet, which says, "Exhibit 2006" when we made the
`11 copies, but it is Exhibit 2006.
`12 So if you'll turn to Page 5 of your
`13 declaration under "Claim Construction."
`14 A. Yes.
`15 Q. Do you see the second paragraph of
`16 Paragraph 17, which begins, "The corresponding
`17 structure is"?
`18 A. Yes.
`19 Q. Do you see here that you say that the
`20 corresponding structure to the means for
`21 "'prerecording a control track having audio and/or
`22 control information corresponding to an audio signal'"
`
`1 requires two media players.
`2 A. Right.
`3 Q. Is that your testimony?
`4 A. Yes. First and second media player, yes.
`5 Q. Why does it require two media players to
`6 prerecord?
`7 A. I mean it's designed to have, you know,
`8 multiple media players that are synchronized so that
`9 one -- just in this particular example, you have one
`10 media player providing a direct input into Recorder
`11 180, and then you have the other media player playing
`12 the sounds that are through the microprocessor, you
`13 know, is used to generate the control information.
`14 Then both those are fed into the output.
`15 Q. Which elements are the two media players?
`16 A. 100 and 170, for instance.
`17 Q. Are those both analog devices?
`18 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`19 THE WITNESS: Well, they're tape players.
`20 That doesn't mean that they have to be analog.
`21 BY MS. THAYER:
`22 Q. Do you know of any tape players where the
`
`20
`
`21
`
`18
`
`19
`
`1 output of a tape player is digital?
`2 A. I mean I think this is just sort of a
`3 schematic. I mean it's not -- you know, you might
`4 have a tape player. You might have a, you know,
`5 converter. In a tape player, I assume it's just a
`6 media player.
`7 Q. Do you see the lines leading from tape player
`8 100, 101A and 101B?
`9 A. Right.
`10 Q. Both of them go to Signal Conditioning 121A
`11 and 121B?
`12 A. Right.
`13 Q. What's done in Signal Conditioning Box 121A
`14 and 121B?
`15 A. I mean if you look at the patent, the patent
`16 says that -- let me try to find the discussion.
`17 Q. You might look at Column 12, Lines 49 and 50,
`18 where it says 120A is audio signal conditioning
`19 circuit.
`20 A. Right.
`21 Q. Which has as an output analog data signals
`22 121A and B?
`
`1 A. Right. Right.
`2 Q. Would it be your understanding, then, that
`3 101A and 101B are analog signal outputs from the tape
`4 player?
`5 A. Yeah. It looks like that suggests that
`6 the -- it's an analog signal, yes.
`7 Q. Did you see microprocessors 130X and 130Y --
`8 A. Yes.
`9 Q. -- which say, "A to D" in both of them? Do
`10 you see that?
`11 A. Yes.
`12 Q. Figure 5.
`13 Would it be your understanding that it is in
`14 those boxes that the signal is converted from analog
`15 to digital?
`16 A. I believe so. If you look at Column 32,
`17 Lines 16 says, "The signals are fed to the signal
`18 conditioners, and each of the signal conditioners
`19 consists of electronic circuitry and each outputs an
`20 analog control signal which is fed to one of the
`21 analog input pins of microprocessor unit," 130X.
`22 And then the microprocessor outputs a serial
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 6 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 data stream as described in Line 25 in Column 13.
`2 Q. So the output streams which are 131X and 131Y
`3 in Figure 5, are those analog or digital?
`4 A. It looks like they're digital. It's a serial
`5 data stream.
`6 Q. Do you see the boxes, Tape IF converters 140X
`7 and 140Y -- do you see those?
`8 A. Uh-huh.
`9 Q. What do those do?
`10 A. As I understand it, what that is simply doing
`11 is it's simply trying to output a signal that can be
`12 stored on a -- as the patent teaches us, on a standard
`13 audio magnetic tape.
`14 Q. Is the second media player the tape player
`15 170 in the lower left-hand corner of Figure 5?
`16 A. Yeah, it could be. Yeah.
`17 Q. And the outputs of that tape player, 170L and
`18 170Y, are those analog or digital?
`19 A. I believe those are -- the patent doesn't
`20 say. It's simply saying that they're, you know, audio
`21 signals.
`22 Q. If you look at Column 13, Line 57, it says,
`
`1 "two tracks containing audio signals 170L and 170R
`2 (which are typically music signals)."
`3 A. Right.
`4 Q. Wouldn't a music signal be analog?
`5 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`6 THE WITNESS: It doesn't have to be. I mean
`7 you could have, you know, digitized music. You could
`8 have digitized music. A music signal can be, you
`9 know, digital.
`10 BY MS. THAYER:
`11 Q. As an output from a tape player?
`12 A. Probably not, but it doesn't seem to say one
`13 way or the other.
`14 Q. So other than the components mentioned in
`15 quotes on the bottom of Page 5 to the top of Page 6 of
`16 your declaration, are there any other components
`17 mentioned in the '129 patent that could be the
`18 corresponding structure to the means for prerecording
`19 element in Claim 22?
`20 A. I think that's it. It's what I've described
`21 here at the bottom of Page 5 and the top of Page 6.
`22 Q. So you said earlier with respect to Claim 22
`
`24
`
`25
`
`22
`
`23
`
`1 that -- strike that.
`2 Earlier, you said that the components in
`3 Figure 5 and the components in Figure 6 act together
`4 to be an entire system.
`5 A. Correct.
`6 Q. Or can act together to be an entire system.
`7 Looking at Claim 22 --
`8 A. Right.
`9 Q. -- if the components in Figure 5 are the
`10 means for prerecording of control track, the first
`11 element of Claim 22, what is the processor which
`12 receives the control track which is the second
`13 element?
`14 A. So the processor is shown in the various
`15 figures in the patent. So -- so, for example, you
`16 have a -- you know, a processor 240 and you also have
`17 the virtual reality system 250.
`18 Q. So virtual reality system 250, in your
`19 opinion, could be the processor which receives the
`20 control track of the second element of Claim 22?
`21 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`22 THE WITNESS: So there was a -- so it has to
`
`1 have -- it's a processor which receives the control
`2 track and which operates the system in response to the
`3 control track. So -- and so, you know, the virtual
`4 reality system is operated based on an input which is
`5 the control track.
`6 BY MS. THAYER:
`7 Q. So you're equating the virtual reality system
`8 250 with the computer system in the second element of
`9 Claim 22; right?
`10 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`11 THE WITNESS: No. I'm basically saying that
`12 you have -- so you can see the way this is set up is
`13 that there's a microprocessor 240 which gets these
`14 inputs, and then the microprocessor provides an output
`15 into the virtual reality system. So you basically
`16 have a -- the virtual reality system gets an input
`17 from the microprocessor 240 as well.
`18 BY MS. THAYER:
`19 Q. Okay. So in the second element, the computer
`20 system, which is controlled by processor 240, is VR
`21 system 250; right?
`22 A. Could you repeat that question again. There
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 7 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 were too many numbers in there.
`2 Q. Right. The second element of 22 says, "A
`3 processor which receives the control track and is
`4 programmed with software for operating the computer
`5 system in response to the control chart."
`6 A. Right.
`7 Q. You have equated -- or you have said that the
`8 corresponding structure is microprocessor 240 because
`9 microprocessor 240 --
`10 A. No. No. No. Okay. I'm sorry. Finish your
`11 question.
`12 Q. Well, microprocessor 240 receives the control
`13 track from the tape player 180 and indirectly receives
`14 the signal from tape player 180. I'm sorry. That was
`15 messy too.
`16 But microprocessor 240 receives a control
`17 track from tape player 180; correct?
`18 A. Right.
`19 Q. So I understood you to be equating or to say
`20 that the processor element of Claim 22 is reflected by
`21 microprocessor 240 in Figure 5, or at least that's one
`22 possible corresponding structure.
`
`1 A. No, I don't think that's what I was saying
`2 because the processor here is really the processor in
`3 the virtual reality system 250 because of its 2- --
`4 the microprocessor 240 generates the control signals
`5 for the virtual reality graphic system 250. For
`6 instance, if you look at Column 14, Line 2 discusses
`7 microprocessor 240.
`8 Q. So what are signals 200X and 200Y that are
`9 leaving tape player 180?
`10 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`11 THE WITNESS: I think it's just signals that
`12 are coming out of a tape player and they're then being
`13 rendered suitable to be input into the -- as serial
`14 data streams into that microprocessor 240. So that's
`15 what -- they're just being converted.
`16 BY MS. THAYER:
`17 Q. Do you see at the -- in Column 13, Line 63
`18 through 65, it says, "Control track signals 200X and
`19 200Y are in" -- wait. Let's see. It's in Column 13,
`20 Line 64, it says, "Control track signals 200X and 200Y
`21 consisting of data encoded as audio signals."
`22 A. Yes.
`
`28
`
`29
`
`26
`
`27
`
`1 Q. Those signals at that point cannot control
`2 the virtual reality system. Is that your testimony?
`3 A. Yeah. They're basically being converted and
`4 fed as serial data streams into the microprocessor,
`5 and then the microprocessor is -- generates control
`6 signals for the virtual reality graphic system 250.
`7 Q. So referring again to Claim 22, the first
`8 element, it says, "Means for prerecording a control
`9 track having audio and/or control information
`10 corresponding to an audio signal." You have equated
`11 that with the elements of Figure 5 --
`12 A. Correct.
`13 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`14 BY MS. THAYER:
`15 Q. -- which are a series of components,
`16 including tape-recorder 180T. So if the structures
`17 in -- so if your testimony is that 180T outputs
`18 generic control signals that need additional
`19 processing by microprocessor 240 before they can
`20 control the virtual reality system, is that your
`21 testimony?
`22 A. That certainly looks like what is shown in --
`
`1 that's what is described in that embodiment.
`2 Q. In the second element of Claim 22, what is
`3 the processor programmed with? What type of software
`4 for operating the computer system?
`5 A. Well, the patent tells us, for example, that
`6 the processor could be, you know, a silicon graphics
`7 crimson computer with reality engine graphics, and it
`8 also has the -- I guess the virtual library software
`9 that is available from, I guess, the assignee of the
`10 patent.
`11 Q. So going back to Element 1, it says, "The
`12 means for prerecording a control track" -- I'm sorry.
`13 Strike that.
`14 So I believe you have testified that the
`15 corresponding structure to the first element, the
`16 means for prerecording, is the elements in Figure 5?
`17 A. Yeah. Some of the elements is Figure 5.
`18 Q. And the -- and Figure 5 ends in 180T, which
`19 is a tape-recorder.
`20 And then in Figure 6 tape player 180T has
`21 outputs 200X, 200Y, 200R and 200L. Isn't that
`22 correct?
`
`(866) 448 - DEPO
`www.CapitalReportingCompany.com © 2014
`
`Page 8 of 28
`
`HARMONIX EXHIBIT 1024
`HARMONIX v. PDIC
`IPR2014-00155
`
`
`
`Capital Reporting Company
`Kesan, Ph.D., Jay P. 09-30-2014
`
`1 A. Correct.
`2 Q. Which one of those outputs is the control
`3 track which operates the VR system?
`4 A. Well, the control track signals are described
`5 in the patent in Column 13, and those control track
`6 signals, 220X and 220Y, are the control signals that
`7 then are processed and input into the virtual reality
`8 system.
`9 Q. So it's not the exact -- it's not exactly
`10 signal 220X or 200Y or 220R or 200L that controls the
`11 VR system 250; is that correct?
`12 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`13 THE WITNESS: Well, this is -- I mean I'm
`14 assuming that it's -- there is some signal processing
`15 done to suitably control the access.
`16 BY MS. THAYER:
`17 Q. In Claim 22, the first element is means for
`18 prerecording a control track, and the second element
`19 says, "a processor which receives the control track."
`20 Do you see that?
`21 A. Right.
`22 Q. Would use of the words "the control track" in
`
`1 your opinion imply that it is the same control track
`2 that was prerecorded in the first element?
`3 A. Yeah. It's just generally referring to the
`4 control track.
`5 Q. And you see in the -- at the end of Claim 22
`6 it says that the processor receives the control track
`7 and then is --
`8 A. Right.
`9 Q. "The computer system is operated in response
`10 to said control track." Do you see that?
`11 A. Yes.
`12 Q. In your opinion, is that the same control
`13 track that is recorded by the means for prerecording?
`14 A. Yeah. It's the same control track that is
`15 generated initially and then used to operate the
`16 control system.
`17 Q. Is there any structure in the '129 patent or
`18 figure that shows the same control track that comes
`19 out of the means for prerecording also directly
`20 controlling the computer system?
`21 MR. GONSALVES: Objection.
`22 THE WITNESS: I think it is the same control
`
`32
`
`33
`
`30
`
`31
`
`1 track. This is just sort of, you know, typical
`2 processing that goes on in these systems.
`3 BY MS. THAYER:
`4 Q. So what does microprocessor 240 do then?
`5 A. It just basically takes the control track
`6 and, you know, it generates control signal 241. I
`7 think it's sort of -- it's clear that the
`8 microprocessor unit is simply taking the same control
`9 signals, 220X and -Y, and generating signal 241 which
`10 is sent to the VR system.
`11 MR. GONSALVES: Counsel, I notice we've
`12 probably been going about an hour. We started at
`13 about 9:30. It's 10:40. Would now be a good time to
`14 take a break?
`15 MS. THAYER: Sure, if you'd like a break.
`16 MR. GONSALVES: Most witnesses take a break
`17 after an hour.
`18 MS. THAYER: That's fine.
`19 MR. GONSALVES: I have bronchitis. So I can
`20 use a break also.
`21 (A recess was taken from 10:38 a.m.
`22 to 10:51 a.m.)
`
`1 BY MS. THAYER:
`2 Q. So referring now to Claim 23, you see that
`3 it's dependant on Claim 22?
`4 A. Correct.
`5 Q. You understand what it means to refer to and
`6 be a dependent claim of Claim 22?
`7 A. Yes, I think I do.
`8 Q. What's your understanding of what it means to
`9 be a dependent claim?
`10 A. So that means what is disclosed in Claim 23
`11 is added on to what is an all present in Claim 22.
`12 Q. Okay. So Claim 23 recites, "Means for
`13 supplying the audio signal to the processor and
`14 wherein

Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ ChargeStill Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.

This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.

Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.

Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.

One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.

Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.

Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site