·1· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·4· ·_____________________________
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`·5· ·QSC AUDIO PRODUCTS, INC.,· · )
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`·6· · · · · · ·Petitioners,· · · ·)
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`·7· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · )· Case No. IPR2014-00127
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`·8· ·CREST AUDIO, INC.,· · · · · ·)· U.S. Patent 6,023,153
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`·9· · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )
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`10· ·_____________________________)
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`14· · · · · · VIDEO DEPOSITION OF ENRICO SANTI, Ph.D.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · Seattle, Washington
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`16· · · · · · · · · · ·Tuesday, July 1, 2014
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`21· ·Reported by:
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`22· ·Donald W. McKay, RMR, CRR, CCR 3237
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`23
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`24· ·Job No. 54825
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`25
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`CREST 2001
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`
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`·2· · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4· ·_____________________________
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`·5· ·QSC AUDIO PRODUCTS, INC.,· · )
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`·6· · · · · · ·Petitioners,· · · ·)
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`·7· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · )· Case No. IPR2014-00127
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`·8· ·CREST AUDIO, INC.,· · · · · ·)· U.S. Patent 6,023,153
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`·9· · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )
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`10· ·_____________________________)
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`14· · · · · · VIDEO DEPOSITION OF ENRICO SANTI, Ph.D.
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`15· · · · · · · · · · · Seattle, Washington
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`16· · · · · · · · · · ·Tuesday, July 1, 2014
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`17
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`21· ·Reported by:
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`22· ·Donald W. McKay, RMR, CRR, CCR 3237
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`23
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`24· ·Job No. 54825
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`25
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`CREST 2001
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`·1· · · · · ·UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`·2· · · · · · BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`·3
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`·4· ·_____________________________
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`·5· ·QSC AUDIO PRODUCTS, INC.,· · )
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`·6· · · · · · ·Petitioners,· · · ·)
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`·7· · · · ·vs.· · · · · · · · · · )· Case No. IPR2014-00127
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`·8· ·CREST AUDIO, INC.,· · · · · ·)· U.S. Patent 6,023,153
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`·9· · · · · · ·Patent Owner.· · · )
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`10· ·_____________________________)
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15· · · · ·Video deposition of ENRICO SANTI, Ph.D., taken
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`16· ·on behalf of Patent Owner, at 1201 Third Avenue,
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`17· ·Suite 4900, Seattle, Washington, beginning at 9:04 a.m.
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`18· ·and ending at 4:24 p.m., on Tuesday, July 1, 2014,
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`19· ·before Donald W. McKay, RMR, CRR, CCR No. 3237.
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S
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`·2
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`·3· ·FOR THE PETITIONERS:
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`·4· · · · ·KAUSTUV M. DAS, ESQ.
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`·5· · · · ·CHUN M. NG, ESQ.
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`·6· · · · ·Perkins Coie LLP
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`·7· · · · ·1201 Third Avenue
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`·8· · · · ·Suite 4900
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`·9· · · · ·Seattle, Washington 98101
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`10· · · · ·206.359.8000
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`11· · · · ·kmdas@perkinscoie.com
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`12· · · · ·cng@perksinscoie.com
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`13
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`14· ·FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
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`15· · · · ·N. ANDREW CRAIN, ESQ.
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`16· · · · ·VIVEK A. GANTI, ESQ.
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`17· · · · ·ROBERT D. GRAVOIS, ESQ. (by telephone)
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`18· · · · ·Thomas Horstemeyer LLP
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`19· · · · ·400 Interstate Parkway SE
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`20· · · · ·Suite 1500
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`21· · · · ·Atlanta, Georgia 30339
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`22· · · · ·770.933.9500
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`23· · · · ·andrew.crain@thomashorstemeyer.com
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`24· · · · ·vivek.ganti@thomashorstemeyer.com
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`25· · · · ·robert.gravois@thomashorstemeyer.com
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`·1· · · · · · · ·A P P E A R A N C E S (continued)
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`·2
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`·3· ·ALSO PRESENT:
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`·4· · · · ·DANIEL KAMKAR
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`·5· · · · ·VIJAY KUMAR
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`·6· · · · ·Summer Associates
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`·7· · · · ·Perkins Coie LLP
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`·8
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`·9· · · · ·PATRICK NORTON
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`10· · · · ·Videographer
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`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·I N D E X
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`·2· ·EXAMINATION BY· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`· · ·________________________________________________________
`·3
`· · ·MR. GANTI...........................................· ·7
`·4· ·MR. DAS............................................. 161
`· · ·MR. GANTI........................................... 165
`·5
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`·6
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`·7
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`·8
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`·9· · · · · · · · · · · · E X H I B I T S
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`10· ·NUMBER· · · ·DESCRIPTION· · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`· · ·________________________________________________________
`11
`· · ·Exhibit 1· · Patent Owner's Notice of Deposition· · · 10
`12· · · · · · · · of Dr. Enrico Santi
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`13· ·Exhibit 2· · Expert Declaration of Enrico Santi,· · · 13
`· · · · · · · · · Ph.D.
`14
`· · ·Exhibit 3· · U.S. Patent No. 6,023,153, dated· · · · ·46
`15· · · · · · · · February 8, 2000
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`16· ·Exhibit 4· · Document titled A Class D Amplifier· · ·100
`· · · · · · · · · Using MOSFETs With Reduced Minority
`17· · · · · · · · Carrier Lifetime, by Jon Hancock
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`18· ·Exhibit 5· · Document titled The Characteristics· · ·108
`· · · · · · · · · of Conventional and Switching Power
`19· · · · · · · · Supplies in Analog Signal Processing,
`· · · · · · · · · by Jay Gordon
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`·1· · · · · ·Seattle, Washington; Tuesday, July 1, 2014
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · ·9:04 a.m.
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`·3
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`·4· · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We're on the record.
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`·5· · · · · ·This is the beginning of Media No. 1 in the
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`·6· ·deposition of Dr. Enrico Santi, in the matter of
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`·7· ·QSC Audio Products, Inc., versus Crest Audio, Inc.,
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`·8· ·Case No. IPR2014-00127.
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`·9· · · · · ·Today's date is July 1, 2014 and the time is
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`10· ·9:04 a.m.
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`11· · · · · ·My name is Patrick Norton and I am the
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`12· ·videographer.· The court reporter is Donald McKay.· We
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`13· ·are with Huseby Court Reporting.
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`14· · · · · ·Counsel please introduce yourselves, after which
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`15· ·the court reporter will swear in the witness.
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`16· · · · · ·MR. GANTI:· This is Vivek Ganti and Andrew Crain
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`17· ·for patent owner, Crest Audio.
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`18· · · · · ·We also have Robert Gravois appearing remotely
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`19· ·for Crest Audio.
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`20· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Kaustuv Das on behalf of the
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`21· ·petitioner, QSC Audio Products, LLC.
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`22· · · · · ·Along with me, we have Chun Ng and Daniel Kamkar
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`23· ·and Vijay Kumar.
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`24· ·///
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`25· ·///
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`·1· ·ENRICO SANTI, Ph.D.· · · · · called as a witness in the
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`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · above-entitled cause, being
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`·3· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · first duly sworn, testified
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`·4· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · as follows:
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`·5
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`·6· · · · · · · · · · ·E X A M I N A T I O N
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`·7· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`·8· · · ·Q.· Good morning, Dr. Santi.· As I stated earlier,
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`·9· ·my name is Vivek Ganti.· I'm an attorney for Crest
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`10· ·Audio.· My last name is spelled just like yours except
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`11· ·it has a G in the front of it.· I'll be taking your
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`12· ·deposition today.
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`13· · · · · ·For the record, can you please state your full
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`14· ·name and your address.
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`15· · · ·A.· Yes.· My full name is Enrico Santi.· My address
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`16· ·is 705 Highpoint Court, Columbia, South Carolina, 29212.
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`17· · · ·Q.· Dr. Santi, have you ever been deposed before?
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`18· · · ·A.· Yes.· Once.
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`19· · · ·Q.· One time?
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`20· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`21· · · ·Q.· So you've been through this process before; but
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`22· ·every deposition is a little different, so I wanted to
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`23· ·go over some ground rules, I think, that can help make
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`24· ·this deposition go efficiently.· That way, we can
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`25· ·communicate clearly and understand each other.
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`
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`·1· · · · · ·So I'll be asking you some questions.· My
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`·2· ·questions, as well as your answers, will be recorded by
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`·3· ·the court reporter sitting to your left.· So, out of a
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`·4· ·courtesy to the court reporter, if you can speak clearly
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`·5· ·and not speak too fast, that would help the court
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`·6· ·reporter get an accurate transcript.· I'll be trying to
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`·7· ·do the same as well.
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`·8· · · · · ·I'll be asking some questions.· Sometimes I'm
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`·9· ·not the best at stating my questions clearly.· So if you
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`10· ·feel that you are confused by any of my questions or I
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`11· ·make certain assumptions that will make it hard for you
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`12· ·to answer my question properly, I request that you ask
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`13· ·me for some clarification.· That way, I can communicate
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`14· ·to you clearly and you would clearly understand my
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`15· ·question.· My intent is not to trick you with any
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`16· ·questions.· I just want to make sure that you understand
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`17· ·my questions clearly.· The flip side of that is if I ask
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`18· ·a question and you provide a response, I'll assume that
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`19· ·you understood my question clearly.· Does that sound
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`20· ·fair?
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`21· · · ·A.· Yes.· That does.
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`22· · · ·Q.· So throughout the course of today's deposition,
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`23· ·I'll be asking you questions for about an hour, hour and
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`24· ·15 minutes.· If you feel the need -- and thereafter, we
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`25· ·can take a break.· If you feel the need to take a break
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`·1· ·at any time, let me know and we can go off the record
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`·2· ·and you can take a break.· The only thing I ask of you
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`·3· ·is that if there is an outstanding question pending,
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`·4· ·that you answer the question before you take a break.
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`·5· ·That way, you can come back; and if you want to clarify
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`·6· ·a question, you can do that.
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`·7· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Dr. Santi, one thing I would clarify
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`·8· ·on that, though, is at any point, if you're asked a
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`·9· ·question where you may have a question as to whether
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`10· ·it's seeking privileged information, and you would like
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`11· ·to consult with me or QSC's counsel about whether it's a
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`12· ·privilege issue, then you should speak up and we can
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`13· ·take that break.· So even though, typically, you
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`14· ·wouldn't take a break when a question is pending, if you
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`15· ·have a question about privilege, then please do raise
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`16· ·that, and Mr. Ganti will allow that break so you can
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`17· ·consult on the privilege issue.
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`18· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Okay.
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`19· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`20· · · ·Q.· And just to elaborate a little further on what
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`21· ·KM said is -- I'll be asking questions.· I'm not trying
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`22· ·to get towards privileged communication, but sometimes
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`23· ·that might -- it might be the case.· So if that happens,
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`24· ·you can go ahead and seek advice from QSC's attorneys.
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`25· · · · · ·If I ask you a question and you feel that you
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`·1· ·need a particular document to help you answer the
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`·2· ·question, please let me know.· There is a good chance I
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`·3· ·have that document with me.· I have some files over here
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`·4· ·to my left.· I can try to find that document and provide
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`·5· ·it to you if you think that will give you a better
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`·6· ·understanding of how to provide an answer to the
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`·7· ·question.
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`·8· · · · · ·Is there any reason today that might prevent you
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`·9· ·from testifying truthfully?· Are you on any medication
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`10· ·or anything like that?
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`11· · · ·A.· No.
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`12· · · ·Q.· Do you understand that you're under oath today?
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`13· · · ·A.· Yes, I do.
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`14· · · · · ·MR. GANTI:· Okay.· Great.
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`15· · · · · ·(Exhibit 1 marked for identification.)
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`16· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`17· · · ·Q.· Dr. Santi, I'm handing you a document marked as
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`18· ·Exhibit 1.· Please take a moment to flip through this
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`19· ·document and let me know when you're done reviewing it.
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`20· · · ·A.· Okay.
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`21· · · ·Q.· Have you seen this document before?
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`22· · · ·A.· No.
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`23· · · ·Q.· No?· Do you understand what this document is?
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`24· · · ·A.· Well, it's basically -- it's basically a notice
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`25· ·stating that I would be deposed today.
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`·1· · · ·Q.· So do you understand that this notice is the
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`·2· ·reason why you're here today?
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`·3· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`·4· · · ·Q.· So what have you done to prepare for today's
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`·5· ·deposition?
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`·6· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Dr. Santi, I would caution you not to
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`·7· ·get into any privileged communication in responding.
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`·8· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Preparing for today's -- well, I
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`·9· ·reviewed the patent -- the '153 patent that this is
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`10· ·about.· I reviewed my declaration.· And I reviewed the
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`11· ·two patents -- sorry -- the two papers that were
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`12· ·discussed, Hancock and Gordon, those two papers.
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`13· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`14· · · ·Q.· How much time did you spend preparing for your
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`15· ·deposition today?
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`16· · · ·A.· Well, last week, I spent maybe four hours or so,
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`17· ·and I spent an hour and a half last night, just looking
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`18· ·through these papers.
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`19· · · ·Q.· Did you meet with QSC's attorneys to prepare for
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`20· ·the deposition?
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`21· · · ·A.· Yes.· Yesterday, I met with them.
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`22· · · ·Q.· Do you know the names of those attorneys that
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`23· ·you met with?
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`24· · · ·A.· Yes.· Mr. Das and Mr. Ng.· I was introduced to
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`25· ·some other attorneys, but they didn't stay for the --
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`·1· · · ·Q.· So Mr. Das and Mr. Ng are the only two attorneys
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`·2· ·that you remember meeting?
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`·3· · · ·A.· That I had a long discussion with.· I met also
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`·4· ·with Mr. Tullett.
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`·5· · · ·Q.· And Mr. Tullett at well?
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`·6· · · ·A.· I met with him, but he left immediately.· So I
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`·7· ·just shook hands with him.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· Okay.· Did you speak with anyone else about your
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`·9· ·deposition today, other than QSC's attorneys?
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`10· · · ·A.· I talked to my wife on the phone, yes.
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`11· · · ·Q.· The boss?
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`12· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`13· · · ·Q.· Did you review any documents, other than the
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`14· ·ones you've identified to me, to prepare for your
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`15· ·deposition today?
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`16· · · ·A.· I think, very briefly, I looked at some -- a
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`17· ·textbook, power electronics, one textbook in particular,
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`18· ·but maybe like five minutes.
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`19· · · ·Q.· Do you know the name of that textbook?
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`20· · · ·A.· Yes.· Kassakian, Schlecht, Verghese.
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`21· · · ·Q.· We might need your help spelling those out.
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`22· · · ·A.· Kassakian, K-A-S-S-A-K-I-A-N; Schlecht,
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`23· ·S-C-H-L-E-C-H-T; Verghese, V-E-R-G-H-E-S-E.· Like
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`24· ·Fundamentals of Power Electronics or something like that
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`25· ·or Principles of Power Electronics.· It's an old
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`·1· ·textbook, one of the first ones, power electronics.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· Do you know roughly what time -- what the
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`·3· ·copyright date is or when that textbook was published?
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`·4· · · ·A.· I think '92.
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`·5· · · ·Q.· 1992?
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`·6· · · ·A.· 1992.· I may be wrong, but I believe -- that's
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`·7· ·what I remember.
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`·8· · · ·Q.· Is there a particular edition?
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`·9· · · ·A.· I think it's the second edition, I believe,
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`10· ·again.
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`11· · · ·Q.· Did you review any other documents besides this
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`12· ·textbook, the '153 patent, your declaration, the Gordon
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`13· ·reference and the Hancock reference?
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`14· · · ·A.· No.
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`15· · · ·Q.· Did you bring any documents with you to the
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`16· ·building today?
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`17· · · ·A.· No.
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`18· · · · · ·(Exhibit 2 marked for identification.)
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`19· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`20· · · ·Q.· Dr. Santi, I'm handing you a document labeled as
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`21· ·Exhibit No. 2.· Can you take a moment to look at this
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`22· ·document and let me know when you're done.
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`23· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Counsel, I'll point out, the document
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`24· ·is typically double sided, but there is one blank page.
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`25· ·I don't think there is any missing pages, but there is a
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`
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`·1· ·blank page in there.· So I just wanted to point that
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`·2· ·out.· It's between page 19 and 20.· Again, I don't think
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`·3· ·any pages are missing, but because it's double sided and
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`·4· ·there is a blank page, I just wanted to make sure there
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`·5· ·wasn't anything that was meant to be in there.
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`·6· · · · · ·MR. GANTI:· Sure.· Thank you for pointing that
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`·7· ·out.
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`·8· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yes.
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`·9· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`10· · · ·Q.· You've reviewed the document?
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`11· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`12· · · ·Q.· Have you seen this document before?
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`13· · · ·A.· Yes.· It's my declaration, my expert
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`14· ·declaration, that I signed in the back.· Yes.
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`15· · · ·Q.· When were you first contacted by QSC about
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`16· ·potentially being retained as an expert witness in this
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`17· ·proceeding?
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`18· · · ·A.· Well, I -- I actually was retained for the
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`19· ·patent litigation -- there is a separate patent
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`20· ·litigation that I think you are aware of.· So I was
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`21· ·retained for that.· And that happened a little bit more
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`22· ·than a year ago, I believe.· And then when this inter
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`23· ·partes review -- later on, after being retained for
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`24· ·that, I was contacted also about this inter partes to
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`25· ·review.
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`·1· · · ·Q.· Do you know roughly what -- I didn't mean to cut
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`·2· ·you off.· Were you done?
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`·3· · · ·A.· Sure.
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`·4· · · ·Q.· Do you know what time of year you were retained
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`·5· ·for the patent litigation?· You said a year ago.· But
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`·6· ·roughly what month?
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`·7· · · ·A.· I think -- I think maybe -- maybe April of last
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`·8· ·year, but I may not be very accurate.
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`·9· · · ·Q.· April-ish?
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`10· · · ·A.· Yeah.
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`11· · · ·Q.· It was getting warmer?· Around that time of
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`12· ·year?· That's how I remember.
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`13· · · ·A.· I'm not sure.· I think classes were in session,
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`14· ·let's say.
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`15· · · ·Q.· So April-ish of 2013?
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`16· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`17· · · ·Q.· Then it appears you were retained again for the
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`18· ·inter partes review proceeding, the one that's at issue
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`19· ·right now?
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`20· · · ·A.· Yes.
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`21· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
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`22· ·BY MR. GANTI:
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`23· · · ·Q.· Do you know what time of year you were
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`24· ·approached by QSC's attorneys with regard to the inter
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`25· ·partes review proceeding?
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`·1· · · ·A.· Can you repeat the question.· I'm sorry.
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`·2· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Do you know what time of year or roughly
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`·3· ·what date you were approached by QSC's attorneys with
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`·4· ·regard to the inter partes review proceeding?
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`·5· · · ·A.· I believe it was around maybe October last year,
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`·6· ·2013.
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`·7· · · ·Q.· When you were approached by QSC with regard to
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`·8· ·the litigation matter, do you know who contacted you?
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`·9· · · ·A.· I think that the first contact was with Mr. Das,
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`10· ·and later on, for that particular part -- for this inter
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`11· ·partes review, I worked mostly with Mr. Ng and
`
`12· ·Mr. Tullett.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· In this instant proceeding, this inter partes
`
`14· ·review proceeding, when were you formally engaged by
`
`15· ·QSC?
`
`16· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`17· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I just worked on it.· I mean, I --
`
`18· ·they asked me to do some work on this particular thing.
`
`19· ·There was not -- I didn't sign any separate document
`
`20· ·saying that I was retained for that.· I mean, I felt it
`
`21· ·was the same thing.· But maybe I was wrong.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`23· · · ·Q.· Are you being compensated for your time as an
`
`24· ·expert witness?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Is it an hourly rate?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· How much are you being compensated per hour?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· It's $350 per hour.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Does that rate vary depending on the kind of
`
`·6· ·work you're doing?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· No.· It's the same.· It's one rate.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· Does your compensation depend on certain
`
`·9· ·milestones?
`
`10· · · ·A.· No.
`
`11· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`12· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`13· · · ·Q.· How many hours have you worked on this
`
`14· ·particular matter to date?
`
`15· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`16· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What do you mean by "matter"?
`
`17· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`18· · · ·Q.· I guess you did some work in the litigation
`
`19· ·proceeding and the inter partes review proceeding.
`
`20· ·Let's say overall, as an expert witness for QSC, how
`
`21· ·much time did you spend working on -- in your role as an
`
`22· ·expert witness in the litigation proceeding and the
`
`23· ·inter partes review proceeding?
`
`24· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, compound.
`
`25· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Okay.· So you're asking me -- so
`
`
`
`·1· ·how much time I spent for the -- for the main litigation,
`
`·2· ·for the infringement and validity case?· Is that what
`
`·3· ·you're asking?
`
`·4· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Overall.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· Total?
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Right.
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Again, I'm not -- I'm not completely sure. I
`
`·9· ·would say I may have worked between 30 and 40 hours, I
`
`10· ·would say.
`
`11· · · ·Q.· How many of those 30 or 40 hours were spent
`
`12· ·preparing your declaration for this -- this declaration?
`
`13· · · ·A.· Preparing this document?
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Yes.
`
`15· · · ·A.· Probably -- more than ten.
`
`16· · · ·Q.· Would you say ten to fifteen?
`
`17· · · ·A.· Yeah.· Yes.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· When you began work on the inter partes review
`
`19· ·proceeding, what was the first step you did as an expert
`
`20· ·witness?
`
`21· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`22· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What do you mean, the first step?
`
`23· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`24· · · ·Q.· Did you review documents?· Did you --
`
`25· · · ·A.· Yes.· I reviewed -- I reviewed some papers.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Do you know what documents you took a look at to
`
`·2· ·prepare your declaration?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· Yes.· I reviewed the Hancock paper and I
`
`·4· ·reviewed the Gordon paper.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Did QSC's attorneys provide you with any
`
`·6· ·documents you considered in forming the opinions
`
`·7· ·expressed in your declaration?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Yes.· They provided these two papers.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· Did they provide anything else that you used to
`
`10· ·consider in forming your opinions expressed in the
`
`11· ·declaration?
`
`12· · · ·A.· No.· No other paper.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· So they didn't provide any other dictionary
`
`14· ·definitions, invalidity charts, that you considered in
`
`15· ·preparing your -- forming your opinions in this
`
`16· ·declaration?
`
`17· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, compound.
`
`18· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Okay.· So what's the question
`
`19· ·again?
`
`20· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`21· · · ·Q.· Sure.· This is a good example of me asking a
`
`22· ·question that is probably a little confusing.· So let me
`
`23· ·try this one more time.
`
`24· · · · · ·Besides the Gordon and Hancock references, did
`
`25· ·QSC attorneys provide you with any other documents that
`
`
`
`·1· ·you considered in forming your opinions that led to your
`
`·2· ·declaration?
`
`·3· · · ·A.· No.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· I assume they provided you the patent as well.
`
`·5· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`·6· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Well, I had received the patent
`
`·7· ·before, also for the regular litigation.· So I already
`
`·8· ·had that one.
`
`·9· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Got you.
`
`11· · · ·A.· Obviously, I looked at that as well.· If I
`
`12· ·failed to mention that, I guess maybe that was a mistake
`
`13· ·on my part.
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Did you use any documents that you
`
`15· ·analyzed while you were engaged in the litigation matter
`
`16· ·when forming your opinions that are expressed in this
`
`17· ·declaration?
`
`18· · · ·A.· Any other document, you mean?
`
`19· · · ·Q.· Right.· Other documents that you reviewed when
`
`20· ·you were engaged in the litigation work.
`
`21· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`22· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Are we talking about the whole
`
`23· ·litigation or are we talking about this particular
`
`24· ·declaration?
`
`25· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· The whole litigation.· So it's my understanding
`
`·2· ·you were engaged to do the litigation work first.
`
`·3· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·4· · · ·Q.· Then you were engaged to do the IPR work.· Is
`
`·5· ·that correct?
`
`·6· · · ·A.· That is correct.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· And you reviewed some documents when you were
`
`·8· ·doing the litigation work.· Is that correct?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Are any of those documents -- were any of those
`
`11· ·documents used in forming your opinions when you put
`
`12· ·this declaration together?
`
`13· · · ·A.· Well, when I started working on this, I -- I
`
`14· ·reviewed some basic things on power electronics, power
`
`15· ·factor correction.· I reviewed certain things on power
`
`16· ·electronics, on power factor correction.· And I look at
`
`17· ·some -- for example, at a textbook I use for my power
`
`18· ·electronics class, for example.· And, also, I have been
`
`19· ·working in this area for a very long time, so there is a
`
`20· ·lot of stuff I know from studies I did in the past,
`
`21· ·obviously.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· So let's walk through some of those materials
`
`23· ·and see if we can identify them.
`
`24· · · · · ·You mentioned a textbook.
`
`25· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Is that the same textbook you referenced before?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· No.· It's a different one.
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Do you know the name of it?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· Yes.· So it's Erickson, E-R-I-C-K-S-O-N,
`
`·5· ·Maskovic, M-A-S-K-O-V-I-C, Fundamentals of Power
`
`·6· ·Electronics.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Do you know what year that was published?
`
`·8· · · ·A.· Early 2000s, I would say.· I don't remember.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· You also said that you reviewed certain things
`
`10· ·on power electronics.
`
`11· · · ·A.· Um-hmm.
`
`12· · · ·Q.· Can you provide some examples of what those
`
`13· ·things are besides this Erickson-Maskovic textbook.
`
`14· · · ·A.· Actually, that was probably it.· There are
`
`15· ·certain things I know about this already, so I just, you
`
`16· ·know, went back and reviewed certain things, and I
`
`17· ·didn't learn anything new that I didn't already know.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· Did you review any patents or patent
`
`19· ·publications?
`
`20· · · ·A.· No, except the '153 patent, obviously.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· Did you review any journal articles besides the
`
`22· ·Gordon and Hancock articles?
`
`23· · · ·A.· No.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· In forming your opinion that's expressed in your
`
`25· ·declaration, did you review any document referred to as
`
`
`
`·1· ·an invalidity contention?
`
`·2· · · ·A.· Regarding invalidity contention, is this for the
`
`·3· ·patent or for the inter partes?· Which of the -- does it
`
`·4· ·refer to which of the two?
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Let me clarify.
`
`·6· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· I'll ask the question again.· Did you form an
`
`·8· ·opinion that is expressed in your declaration that is
`
`·9· ·referred to as an invalidity contention or invalidity
`
`10· ·chart that's in relation to the litigation that you're
`
`11· ·engaged in?
`
`12· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection to form.
`
`13· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Are you talking about the inter
`
`14· ·partes or the infringement and validity case?· I'm
`
`15· ·trying to understand.
`
`16· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Maybe we can assign some names to it to make it
`
`18· ·clearer.· We can call this the inter partes review.
`
`19· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`20· · · ·Q.· Then we can call the other one the litigation.
`
`21· · · ·A.· The litigation.· Okay.
`
`22· · · ·Q.· Does that make sense?
`
`23· · · ·A.· Fine.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· Sure.· So my question was directed to the
`
`25· ·litigation matter.· Did you review any invalidity charts?
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, beyond the scope.
`
`·2· · · · · ·Mr. Ganti, are you asking him about opinions he
`
`·3· ·may have formed in the litigation, or are you asking him
`
`·4· ·about opinions expressed in his declaration submitted --
`
`·5· · · · · ·MR. GANTI:· Right.· I appreciate you pointing
`
`·6· ·that out.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· I'm asking about opinions that you formed that
`
`·9· ·are expressed in your declaration.· I'm only concerned
`
`10· ·about this declaration.· I understand that in your work
`
`11· ·in the infringement case -- or the litigation case,
`
`12· ·you've reviewed documents that might have given you
`
`13· ·opinions that you've ultimately adopted in your current
`
`14· ·declaration.· Is that --
`
`15· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`16· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Not particularly.· We worked
`
`17· ·mostly on --
`
`18· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Mr. Santi, I would be careful not to
`
`19· ·get into privilege issues in discussing the underlying
`
`20· ·litigation.· Again, the question -- Mr. Ganti can
`
`21· ·clarify this -- the question is, in forming the opinions
`
`22· ·expressed in Exhibit 2 in this deposition -- that's your
`
`23· ·declaration -- did you review invalidity contentions
`
`24· ·from the underlying litigation?· I believe that's the
`
`25· ·question.
`
`
`
`·1· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· Right.· I'm looking for you to identify a
`
`·3· ·document or facts or data that you've relied upon in
`
`·4· ·forming your opinion of your declaration.· And
`
`·5· ·specifically, if you've looked at invalidity charts that
`
`·6· ·you might have come across in your work in the
`
`·7· ·litigation case.
`
`·8· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· And again --
`
`·9· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No.
`
`10· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· I was just going to caution you not to
`
`11· ·get into privileged communications.
`
`12· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No.· In preparing this
`
`13· ·declaration, I have not looked at invalidity charts.
`
`14· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`15· · · ·Q.· In preparing your declaration, did you do any
`
`16· ·research or any searches?
`
`17· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, compound.· Objection, form.
`
`18· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I -- I may -- I may have done one
`
`19· ·or two Google searches, but very little in that area.
`
`20· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`21· · · ·Q.· How did you perform your searches?
`
`22· · · ·A.· I go to Google and search for a term, a word.
`
`23· · · ·Q.· What kind of terms did you submit in your Google
`
`24· ·search?
`
`25· · · ·A.· I don't remember.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· Were you searching for technical concepts or
`
`·2· ·technical references?
`
`·3· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, compound.
`
`·4· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I was searching for technical
`
`·5· ·concepts.
`
`·6· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Did you perform any other searches besides a
`
`·8· ·Google search?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· No.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· Did you conduct a prior art search?
`
`11· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`12· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No.
`
`13· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`14· · · ·Q.· Do you understand what it is when I say a prior
`
`15· ·art search?
`
`16· · · ·A.· Please tell me.
`
`17· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Did you look for any patents or
`
`18· ·references that might possibly predate the priority date
`
`19· ·of the patent?
`
`20· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`21· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`23· · · ·Q.· Did you consider any invalidity arguments that
`
`24· ·are not included in your declaration?
`
`25· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`
`
`·1· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No.
`
`·2· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·3· · · ·Q.· Did you author your declaration?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· Can you define author, please.
`
`·5· · · ·Q.· Sure.· Did you type the contents of your
`
`·6· ·declaration?
`
`·7· · · ·A.· No.· Not most of it, no.
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· So you typed up some of it?
`
`·9· · · ·A.· I did edits, yes.
`
`10· · · ·Q.· If you didn't type it, then who typed it?
`
`11· · · ·A.· Attorneys at Perkins Coie.· I believe -- yeah,
`
`12· ·attorneys there.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· But I assume you reviewed your declaration
`
`14· ·before you signed it.
`
`15· · · ·A.· Yes.· I reviewed it very carefully.· As I said,
`
`16· ·I made edits.· Before we had phone conversations and we
`
`17· ·discussed the --
`
`18· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Again, don't get into privilege.· Stay
`
`19· ·at a higher level.
`
`20· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Sure.· We discussed the subject
`
`21· ·matter, and then they provided the draft as a result of
`
`22· ·our discussions.
`
`23· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`24· · · ·Q.· How much time did you spend editing the draft?
`
`25· · · ·A.· Probably seven, eight hours.
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·Q.· This might be a tough question for you to
`
`·2· ·answer, but do you know what percentage of the document
`
`·3· ·you've changed?
`
`·4· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`·5· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm not sure.
`
`·6· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·7· · · ·Q.· Does your report -- let me start over.
`
`·8· · · · · ·Does your declaration include any content that
`
`·9· ·you did not create yourself?
`
`10· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`11· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What do you mean by create again?
`
`12· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`13· · · ·Q.· Are there sections in your declaration that you
`
`14· ·didn't type or edit?
`
`15· · · ·A.· Well, I mean -- I reviewed the entire content of
`
`16· ·this declaration, and I believe -- and I -- and they
`
`17· ·represent my expert opinion.
`
`18· · · ·Q.· So you would say you adopt all the content of
`
`19· ·your declaration as part of your opinion?
`
`20· · · ·A.· Say it again.
`
`21· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`22· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`23· · · ·Q.· Do you adopt all the content in your declaration
`
`24· ·as part of your opinion?
`
`25· · · ·A.· This declaration reflects my opinions on the
`
`
`
`·1· ·subject matter.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· Is there anything in the declaration that you
`
`·3· ·don't adopt as your opinion?
`
`·4· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, asked and answered.
`
`·5· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· As I said, I -- as I said, I --
`
`·6· ·this reflects my opinion on the subject matter.
`
`·7· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`·8· · · ·Q.· Is there any part of your declaration that you
`
`·9· ·would wish to change today?
`
`10· · · ·A.· Well, actually, I did notice a typo.· So I may
`
`11· ·want to bring it to your attention now.· So let me see
`
`12· ·if I can find it here.
`
`13· · · · · ·I think it's on page 29.· The F subtitle here
`
`14· ·says, "The subject matter of Claims 7 and 21 would have
`
`15· ·been obvious in view of the admitted prior art and
`
`16· ·Hancock or Gordon."· I realized that in the discussion
`
`17· ·here, I never mentioned Gordon.· I mentioned Hancock,
`
`18· ·but not Gordon.· So that was a typo.· All of the other
`
`19· ·referred to these, so that's why, I guess, there was
`
`20· ·this typo.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· So just to be clear, the text falling under
`
`22· ·Section F --
`
`23· · · ·A.· Um-hmm.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· -- you're saying that there is no discussion of
`
`25· ·Gordon in this?
`
`
`
`·1· · · ·A.· Yes.
`
`·2· · · ·Q.· Did you intend to put a discussion of Gordon in
`
`·3· ·this section?
`
`·4· · · ·A.· No, it was an oversight.· All the other titles
`
`·5· ·had that and then kind of the same way.· But it was
`
`·6· ·supposed to be -- the prior art also discloses a
`
`·7· ·resonant comparator, but Gordon is not required for
`
`·8· ·that.
`
`·9· · · ·Q.· I appreciate you pointing that out.
`
`10· · · · · ·Is there anything else that you would like to
`
`11· ·change about your declaration today?
`
`12· · · ·A.· No.
`
`13· · · ·Q.· So besides this Section F, do you believe your
`
`14· ·declaration is complete?
`
`15· · · · · ·MR. DAS:· Objection, form.
`
`16· · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What do you mean by complete?
`
`17· ·BY MR. GANTI:
`
`18· · · ·Q.· As in a complete representation of your opinion.
`
`19· · · ·A.· It's a representation of my opinion on this
`
`20· ·subject matter.
`
`21· · · ·Q.· So Dr. Santi, where did you attend your
`
`22· ·undergraduate education?
`
`23· · · ·A.· University of Padua, Italy.
`
`24· · · ·Q.· How do you spell that?
`
`25· · · ·A.·
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