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`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` ____________________________
` GEA PROCESS ENGINEERING, INC.
` Petitioner
` v.
` STEUBEN FOODS, INC.
` Patent Owner
` _____________________________
`
` Case IPR2014-00041
` U.S. Patent No. 6,945,013
` Case IPR2014-00043
` U.S. Patent No. 6,475,435
` Case IPR2014-00051
` U.S. Patent No. 6,209,591
` Case IPR2014-00054
` U.S. Patent No. 6,481,468
` Case IPR2014-00055
` U.S. Patent No. 6,537,188
` _____________________________
`
` DEPOSITION OF SUDHIR K. SASTRY
` Volume 1
` Alexandria, Virginia
` June 25, 2014
`
`Reported by: Mary Ann Payonk / Job No. 80913
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 1
`
`

`

`Page 2
`
` June 25, 2014
` 9:58 a.m.
`
` Deposition of SUDHIR K. SASTRY, Volume
`1, held at the offices of Oblon Spivak, 1940
`Duke Street, Alexandria, Virginia, pursuant to
`Notice before Mary Ann Payonk, Nationally
`Certified Realtime Reporter and Notary Public
`of the District of Columbia, Commonwealth of
`Virginia, States of Maryland and New York.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 2
`
`

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`APPEARANCES:
`ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
` BENJAMIN KIERSZ, ESQUIRE
` WILLIAM ATKINS, ESQUIRE
` MICHAEL HEINS, ESQUIRE
` PILLSBURY WINTHROP SHAW PITTMAN
` 1650 Tysons Boulevard
` McLean, VA 22102
`
`ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
` GREG GARDELLA, ESQUIRE
` KEVIN LAURENCE, ESQUIRE
` OBLON SPIVAK McCLELLAND MAIER & NEUSTADT
` 1940 Duke Street
` Arlington, VA 22314
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Cook Alciati, Esquire
` Corporate Counsel, Steuben
` Charles M. Avigliano, Esquire
` Corporate Counsel, Steuben
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 3
`
`

`

`Page 4
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` S. Sastry
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
`start of the tape labeled number 1 of
`the videotaped deposition of Sudhir
`Sastry in the matter GEA Process
`Engineering versus Steuben Foods. This
`deposition is taking place at 1940 Duke
`Street, Alexandria, Virginia, on
`June 25, 2014 at approximately 9:58 a.m.
` My name is Jordan Mummert from
`TSG Reporting, Inc. I'm the legal video
`specialist. The court reporter is
`Mary Ann Payonk, in association with
`TSG Reporting.
` Would the counsel please introduce
`yourselves?
` (Whereupon, counsel placed their
`appearances on the video record.)
` MR. GARDELLA: So, consistent with
`our conversation before the deposition
`commenced, counsel, patent owner would
`like a standing objection as to the use
`of Professor Sastry's deposition
`testimony and related exhibits to the
`extent they are outside the scope of his
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 4
`
`

`

`Page 5
`
` S. Sastry
`declaration in a given case. For
`instance, if given testimony, questions,
`or exhibits are within the scope of the
`0043 case, but not the 0051 case,
`Steuben would reserve the right to
`object to and move to exclude that
`evidence from the 0051 case.
` MR. KIERSZ: That objection is
`noted. And I'll note for the record
`that we are starting an hour late
`because patent owner raised this
`objection when the deposition was
`supposed to start at 9 a.m.
` MR. GARDELLA: For clarity of the
`record, is Petitioner agreeing to the
`standing objection?
` MR. KIERSZ: Yes.
` MR. ATKINS: Agreeing to it? We
`agree that it's on the record. It's an
`objection. But we're not agreeing to
`the actual veracity.
` MR. GARDELLA: Correct. I think
`that's sufficiently clear.
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 5
`
`

`

`Page 6
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` S. Sastry
`SUDHIR K. SASTRY,
` called as a witness, having been duly
` sworn, was examined and testified as
` follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. KIERSZ:
` Q. Dr. Sastry, have you ever been
`deposed before?
` A. No.
` Q. If a question is unclear, will you
`ask me to clarify it?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If you need more information to
`answer a question, will you please ask me for
`more information?
` If I use terms that you don't know,
`will you please tell me?
` A. Okay.
` Q. If you only give me a partial answer,
`will you tell me that it is just a partial
`answer?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Do you have any hesitation in
`answering truthfully and honestly today?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 6
`
`

`

`Page 7
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` A. None.
` Q. Do you have any health condition or
`medication that might impair your ability to
`answer questions fully and truthfully today?
` A. None.
` Q. If there's an error in any of your
`testimony today, will you correct that?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you understand that I'm here to
`ask you questions because you have signed five
`declarations that Steuben is relying on in five
`U.S. Patent and Trademark Office inter partes
`review proceedings?
` A. I do.
` Q. Are you aware of any misstatements or
`inaccuracies in any of your five declarations?
` A. None.
` Q. Are you sure?
` A. I'm sure.
` Q. How much time did you spend preparing
`the declarations for these -- in these five
`IPRs?
` A. At least five days.
` Q. And how many hours in each of those
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 7
`
`

`

`Page 8
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`five days did you spend?
` A. Possibly eight to ten hours.
` Q. Do you remember the dates of those
`five days that you were working on it?
` A. I don't remember them right now at
`this point.
` Q. Would they have been the five days
`leading up to when you signed the declaration?
` A. Roughly speaking.
` Q. Do you remember if there were any
`gaps in those days?
` A. I don't, do not remember.
` Q. Were you paid to provide these
`declarations?
` A. I was.
` Q. Hourly?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What was your hourly rate?
` A. $400 an hour.
` Q. Did you speak with anyone in the
`course of your preparation of the declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who?
` A. With Cook Alciati.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 8
`
`

`

`Page 9
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` Q. Anyone else?
` A. No.
` Q. So Cook is the -- Cook Alciati is the
`only person that you spoke to in connection
`with the preparation of your declarations?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Did you meet with Cook in person?
` A. No.
` Q. Was this by telephone?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Was it by any other means?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you ever had any communications
`with Mr. Taggart?
` A. I have spoken with him.
` Q. When was that?
` A. I met him. It's at least a year ago.
`That's my guess. It may not be exact and
`accurate.
` Q. You met him in person?
` A. Yes, I have met him in person.
` Q. Where was that?
` A. Here in Washington. In the
`Washington area.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 9
`
`

`

`Page 10
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` Q. Have you ever met him anywhere else?
` A. No.
` Q. Do any of the opinions in your
`declarations rely on any correspondence you've
`had with Mr. Taggart?
` A. None.
` Q. Have you ever had any communications
`with Dr. Norbert Buchner?
` A. No.
` Q. Do any of the opinions in your
`declarations rely on any information or
`statements from Dr. Buchner?
` A. No.
` Q. Have you ever had any communications
`with Dr. Sharon?
` A. Let me -- may I clarify? When you
`say make statements, based on -- can you repeat
`that last question that you asked before this?
` Q. Sure. Do the opinions in your
`declarations rely on any statements or
`assertions from Dr. Buchner?
` A. There -- the statements of
`Dr. Buchner that were made in connection with
`this case that are part of the record are part
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 10
`
`

`

`Page 11
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`of my --
` Q. So the statements that were part of
`the record in your declarations are the only
`statements from Dr. Buchner you rely on?
` A. Only statements, yes.
` Q. Have you ever had any communications
`with Dr. Andre Sharon?
` A. No, I did not.
` Q. Do the opinions in your declarations
`rely on any assertions or statements from
`Dr. Sharon?
` A. None.
` Q. Do you know who Dr. Sharon is?
` A. No.
` Q. Is there a possibility that you've
`ever met Dr. Sharon before?
` A. No, never.
` Q. In preparing your declarations, did
`you rely an any assertions by anybody other
`than the folks we've already discussed?
` A. No others.
` Q. In preparing your declarations, did
`you rely on any assertions from Mr. Alciati?
` A. None.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 11
`
`

`

`Page 12
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` Q. In preparing your declarations, did
`you rely on any documents other than the
`exhibits that you cite to in your declarations?
` A. Okay, please repeat that question.
` Q. Sure. In preparing your
`declarations, did you rely on any documents
`other than the exhibits that you cite in your
`declarations?
` A. Yes, I did -- do rely on other
`documents.
` Q. What are those other documents?
` A. Well, it's the totality of knowledge
`that I know from study of the science of the
`subject.
` Q. Are there any particular documents
`that you relied upon?
` A. It's hard to recollect all of those,
`but in coming up with an opinion, one has
`studied the subject for some considerable time
`and therefore, the documents that one has
`studied come to bear, but I cannot recall
`exactly where those documents came from.
` Q. So in preparing your declarations you
`were looking at other documents, and today you
`
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`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 12
`
`

`

`Page 13
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`do not recall what those other documents are?
` A. Not all of them, no.
` Q. Do you recall what some of them are?
` A. No, I don't.
` Q. Have you ever visited any Steuben
`facility?
` A. Never.
` Q. Go back to the previous question
`about the documents that you no longer recall
`but you used to prepare your declaration. Why
`are they not listed in your declaration as
`relied-upon materials?
` A. Well, when I'm referring to
`relied-upon materials, I'm referring to
`possibly documents that I may have used in past
`study. So what's knowledge that is sort of
`within my head, which is there from prior
`knowledge, I would -- I interpreted your
`question as referring to anything and
`everything, and therefore, textbooks I may have
`used as an undergraduate may have come into
`play there, and for that reason, I don't really
`remember those.
` Q. Okay. So I'd like to separate this
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 13
`
`

`

`Page 14
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`into two categories. One is the information in
`your head that you had from previously looking
`at documents, and I don't want to ask about
`those anymore. Now I'd like to ask about
`during the actual preparation of your
`declaration, did you reference any documents
`that are not already listed in your
`declarations?
` A. I'm unable to remember with
`exactitude what those are.
` Q. But they did exist?
` A. I would say there are probably
`documents there, but I'm -- as I say, I'm
`unable to recollect exactly at this point where
`they are.
` Q. And just to be clear -- sorry.
`Forgive me.
` A. So it's very hard to give a very
`specific answer.
` Q. So just for clarity of the record,
`when you were preparing your declarations, you
`looked at other documents to help prepare your
`declarations and you presently do not recall
`what those documents are, and those documents
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 14
`
`

`

`Page 15
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`are not cited in your declaration.
` A. Yeah, that -- yeah, documents are not
`cited in the declaration but there may have
`been those that I've -- you know, are not in my
`memory.
` Q. Do any of your IPR declarations rely
`on work that you did in connection with your
`declarations in other Patent Office
`proceedings, specifically reexaminations?
` A. Would you repeat that question?
` Q. Okay. Before your involvement in
`these IPR proceedings, did you sign
`declarations on behalf of Steuben in other
`Patent Office proceedings?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do your declarations in these IPR
`proceedings rely on any of the work that you
`did in connection with those other Patent
`Office proceedings?
` A. This is difficult to separate out
`exactly. I would suspect that there is some
`degree of overlap between what was done
`previously and what is done now. It would be
`hard for me to give you a very clear-cut answer
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 15
`
`

`

`Page 16
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`yes or no.
` Q. Outside of these IPR proceedings, do
`you know Mr. Spinak?
` A. I do know Mr. Spinak.
` Q. In what connection?
` A. I have met him professionally at
`meetings.
` Q. What meetings?
` A. Occasionally, maybe like the
`Institute of Food Technologists or other
`similar professional meetings.
` Q. So these are meetings in which you
`are both participants or members?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Have you ever had any correspondence
`with Mr. Spinak while he was working at the
`FDA?
` A. Not specifically.
` Q. To your knowledge, has Mr. Spinak
`ever examined any FDA filings that you were
`associated with?
` A. To my knowledge, never.
` Q. Can you please describe the
`consulting work that you've done for Nestle.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 16
`
`

`

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` A. Yes. I have consulted, or I spent a
`sabbatical leave with them in 1997-'98.
` Q. And what sort of work did you do for
`Nestle?
` A. I worked for the first nine months in
`their facility which no longer exists in New
`Milford, Connecticut, followed by a stint of
`about two months in Lausanne, Switzerland.
` Q. Did that work have anything to do
`with aseptic --
` A. No.
` Q. -- foods or the processing --
` A. No, nothing to do with it, no.
` Q. Did that consulting work have
`anything to do with bottle filling?
` A. No, it did not.
` Q. Or container filling, food packaging
`filling.
` A. No.
` Q. What exactly did it pertain to?
` A. It pertained to a different area,
`which was vending and dispensing. So it dealt
`with on-demand heating, so heating of products
`that were stored in a vending machine perhaps
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 17
`
`

`

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`and then dispensed hot. And so for that
`reason, we were attempting to heat these
`products before they were dispensed. And that
`was the principal focus of my work with Nestle.
` Q. Can you describe the consulting work
`you've done for Campbell Soup Company?
` A. My consulting for Campbell Soup
`Company has been relatively limited. I made a
`visit there at maximum one, maybe two, and have
`given seminars at their facility. And that
`really is the extent of my consulting with
`Campbell Soup.
` Q. At what facility?
` A. Their facility in New Jersey. I
`think it's in Camden.
` Q. Did that involve aseptic systems?
` A. In a sense, but it did not involve
`the packaging. It involved the processing.
` Q. So it involved aseptic processing of
`food but not aseptic packaging of food?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Go back for a minute to Nestle. Why
`did you choose Nestle to work with during your
`sabbatical?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 18
`
`

`

`Page 19
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` A. One or two reasons, one being their
`being a very large company and having access to
`that capability within Nestle. The other was I
`had contacts within Nestle that were able to
`facilitate this and were able to arrange it for
`me.
` Q. If I use the term "POSITA,"
`P-O-S-I-T-A, to refer to a person of ordinary
`skill in the art, will you know what I mean?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Throughout this deposition, when I
`refer to a POSITA, I am referring to a POSITA
`as that person hypothetically existed before
`February 2, 1999. Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is Clostridium botulinum a spore
`organism?
` A. Clostridium botulinum is a spore
`organism.
` Q. Is Bacillus subtilis a spore
`organism?
` A. Yes, Bacillus subtilis is a spore
`organism.
` Q. Is B. cereus a spore organism?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 19
`
`

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` A. Yes, it is.
` Q. I'm now handing the witness patent
`owner's response in Case IPR2014-00041. If I
`can ask you to turn to page 7 of this document.
`Near the bottom of the page, there's a heading
`that says -- that includes the term "low-acid
`aseptic sterilization and filling (LAASF)."
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. If I use that same term, "LAASF," as
`a short cite to refer to low-acid aseptic
`sterilization and filling, will you understand
`what I mean?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now can you please turn to page 21 of
`that same document. The first sentence in the
`last paragraph on page 21 states that "design
`teams" --
` A. Page 21?
` Q. I'm sorry. Yeah. Page 21. And look
`at the last paragraph.
` A. Okay.
` Q. And the first sentence in the last
`paragraph.
` A. What I'm reading here is "The premise
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 20
`
`

`

`Page 21
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`is belied by the fact."
` Q. Yes.
` A. Okay.
` Q. Okay. And I'm just asking about the
`second part of that sentence that says, quote,
`"Design teams at many manufacturers were unable
`to develop LAASF bottling processes after years
`of research and development," period, close
`quote.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Do you believe that that statement is
`true?
` A. Yes, that is true.
` Q. What is your basis for believing that
`that statement is true?
` A. The information that exists that
`suggests that there is -- there are a number of
`attempts that have been made to file processes
`with the FDA that were not successful.
` Q. And what information are you
`referring to?
` A. There is information in the
`magazines, for example, Packaging Digest and
`the like, that are part of the trade, that
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 21
`
`

`

`Page 22
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`suggest that there have been difficulties in
`doing so.
` Q. And what exactly do the magazine
`articles state?
` A. I don't recall the details of it, but
`the general theme is that this has not been a
`straightforward process and that it has been
`quite a difficult exercise in trying to come up
`with the -- with a successful filling process.
` Q. Do you have any other basis for your
`belief that many design teams at manufacturers
`were unable to develop LAASF bottling processes
`after --
` A. These are my sources.
` Q. So it's just those magazine articles?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And there's no other basis for your
`opinion that, quote, "design teams at many
`manufacturers were unable to develop LAASF
`bottling processes after years of research and
`development"?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are all of those magazine articles
`exhibits that were filed in connection with
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 22
`
`

`

`Page 23
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`your declarations?
` A. It's possible, but I do not know
`whether they were filed or not.
` Q. Which manufacturers failed to develop
`LAASF bottling processes after years of
`research and development?
` A. This is hard for me to exactly
`remember all the details, but the gist of what
`I had from that article was that there were
`those that failed during the -- you know, based
`on the magazine article.
` Q. But sitting here today, can you give
`me an example of a single manufacturer who
`failed to successfully develop an LAASF
`bottling process after years of research and
`development?
` A. Okay. There are a couple of examples
`which I believe are part of this document, and
`which are the example of -- of Gehl Foods, and
`the other being KanPak.
` Q. Are you aware of any other example,
`any other manufacturers that failed in their
`attempts?
` A. No.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 23
`
`

`

`Page 24
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` Q. How many years did Gehl Foods spend
`trying to develop an LAASF process?
` A. I don't have that information handy
`on the tip of my tongue here.
` Q. Have you ever had that information?
` A. I may have read it, but it's not
`something that I would be able to quote right
`off the top of my head.
` Q. Is it possible that Gehl did not
`actually spend years of research and
`development developing their LAASF bottling
`process?
` A. I do not know that.
` Q. How many years did KanPak spend
`trying to develop an LAASF bottling process?
` A. That information too I do not have at
`the tip of my tongue.
` Q. Have you ever had that information of
`how much -- how many years KanPak spent trying
`to develop an LAASF bottling process?
` A. I probably have, but I do not have it
`exact.
` Q. Can you estimate?
` A. No.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 24
`
`

`

`Page 25
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` Q. What about with Gehl Foods? Can you
`estimate how long Gehl Foods spent trying to
`develop an LAASF process?
` A. I don't think I could estimate.
` Q. Do you know whether the design team
`at Gehl Foods was appropriately staffed with
`individuals having the right combination of
`experience and training?
` A. I have no basis for an opinion there.
` Q. Was the design team at KanPak
`appropriately staffed with individuals having
`the right combination of experience and
`training?
` A. I have no knowledge of that.
` Q. Can I refer to the five patents that
`are the subject of these five IPR proceedings
`as the Taggart patents?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When did you first become aware that
`Mr. Taggart had applied for or received any of
`the Taggart patents?
` A. I became aware of that -- again, I'm
`estimating this again -- as perhaps around
`2012.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 25
`
`

`

`Page 26
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` S. Sastry
` Q. And in what connection did you become
`aware of these Taggart patents?
` A. Through the proceedings with Steuben
`Foods.
` Q. Did Steuben Foods approach you?
` A. Yes, they did.
` Q. Are you an expert in sterilization
`utilizing hydrogen peroxide solution?
` A. Please clarify what is meant by an
`expert.
` Q. Do you consider yourself to be an
`expert in sterilization using hydrogen peroxide
`solution?
` MR. GARDELLA: Objection to form.
` A. I would like a clarification on what
`your definition of "expert" is in this context.
` Q. Do you believe that you are qualified
`to provide an opinion beyond your own personal
`factual knowledge about sterilization using
`hydrogen peroxide solution?
` A. That question, I'd like a repetition
`of that question, please.
` (The reporter read from the record as
` follows: Do you believe that you are
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 26
`
`

`

`Page 27
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` S. Sastry
` qualified to provide an opinion beyond
` your own personal factual knowledge about
` sterilization using hydrogen peroxide
` solution?)
` A. Phrased in that manner, yes.
`BY MR. KIERSZ:
` Q. What's the basis of that belief?
` A. The basis of that belief is that I
`have experience with sterilization.
`Sterilization using -- or inactivation of
`microorganisms using various techniques,
`including other physical methods. Also,
`certain chemical methods. And the principles
`that surround the applications of those methods
`are common across many sterilants.
` And for that reason, I believe that
`hydrogen peroxide is somewhat similar in that
`regard, and that the kinetics or the rate of
`inactivation of microorganisms under hydrogen
`peroxide treatment are -- have similarities in
`the principles to the other methods. And to
`that extent, I do feel comfortable in offering
`an opinion on that.
` Q. What are the other methods of
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 27
`
`

`

`Page 28
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` S. Sastry
`sterilization that you have personal experience
`in?
` A. I have personal experience in heat
`sterilization. I have personal experience with
`pressure processing. Now, not all for
`sterilization, but pressure in combination with
`heat, which gives you sterilization treatment.
`I have some experience with pulsed electric
`fields for pasteurization. I have also worked
`some with ozone treatment for inactivation of
`bacteria.
` Q. Do you have personal experience with
`using hydrogen peroxide solution as a
`sterilant?
` A. Not personal experience.
` Q. Now, going back to where you do have
`personal experience, in the heat sterilization,
`pressure processing, pulsed electric field
`processing and ozone, what is being sterilized?
` A. In the case of -- okay, let's maybe
`make a little clarification of the shades of
`gray here. Heat sterilizes or we're able to
`achieve sterilization in the sense that we
`normally use in food processing. Pressure by
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 28
`
`

`

`Page 29
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` S. Sastry
`itself does not quite sterilize, but it gives
`you reduction in microbial counts and certain
`types of organisms. Pulsed electric field,
`very similarly, also does inactivate
`microorganisms. And then if we go to ozone, it
`also inactivates. Now, they do not go as far
`as sterility, but they do inactivate
`microorganisms.
` Q. And is your experience in
`inactivating microorganisms in a food, in food
`products? Where do you apply these -- these
`treatments?
` A. Yes, the -- we applied ohmic heating
`or I would say heating in -- for foods. We
`have applied pressure and pulsed electric
`fields are also for foods. And ozone has been
`for vegetables.
` Q. Have you ever personally used any of
`these methods to deactivate bacteria or
`sterilize bacteria in a food packaging
`container?
` A. I have not used those in a food
`packaging container.
` Q. Have you used any other methods in a
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 29
`
`

`

`Page 30
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`food packaging container?
` A. Let me back up here just a moment
`with regard to that. Within the heating, I
`have attempted to sterilize products that are
`located within a package, so that the products
`were within the package and the heat was used
`to sterilize the product that was therein,
`located therein.
` Q. So a package that already has the
`food in it, you've used heat to sterilize the
`food that was in a package?
` A. That's right.
` Q. Have you ever used any of these
`techniques or any other technique to sterilize
`a food packaging before food was placed in it?
` A. No, I have not.
` Q. I'm now handing you what's been
`previously marked as Exhibit 1001 in
`IPR2014-00041. Can you turn to Claim 18 of
`this '013 patent.
` First of all, is it okay if I refer
`to this patent as the '013 patent?
` A. That's fine.
` Q. Are you looking at Claim 18 now?
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 30
`
`

`

`Page 31
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` A. Yes.
` Q. Okay. The second clause recites
`aseptically disinfecting the bottles.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Do you consider yourself to be an
`expert in aseptically disinfecting bottles as
`you understand that term in Claim 18?
` MR. GARDELLA: Objection to form.
` A. Please clarify and define what you
`mean by "expert" in this context.
` Q. You're here today as an expert;
`correct?
` A. True.
` Q. What is your expertise in?
` A. Okay. My expertise is in food
`process engineering, more specifically relating
`to sterilization.
` Q. Sterilization of what?
` A. Sterilization of various things
`including food. Mostly food.
` Q. Anything else?
` A. Specifically in terms of materials,
`those are the ones that I have experience with.
`But my basis for claiming expertise is based
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`IPR2014-00055
`Steuben Exhibit 2068, pg. 31
`
`

`

`Page 32
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`on -- more on understanding of principles of
`sterilization rather than a specific experience
`with a particular type of processing.
` Q. So let me see if I understand this.
`You have experience in sterilizing food
`products, and it's your belief that that
`experience in sterilizing food products makes
`you an expert to provide the opinions that
`you've provided in your declarations?
` A. Okay. Let's maybe clarify that a
`little further. Sterilization of food
`products, but I did specifically state that the
`principles that are applied are common across
`many areas, and therefore one could offer an
`opinion regarding sterilization of packaging,
`provided one understood the physical
`principles, the microbiological principles
`thereof, and be able to use that knowledge to
`work in that area.
` Q. Do you have any personal experience
`in aseptically disinfecting bottles?
` A. I do not have personal experience in
`aseptically disinfecting

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