CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`GOOGLE INC.
`Petitioner,
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C. DEPOSITION OF
`Patent Owner, CORY PLOCK
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00031
`Patent 6,771,290 B1
`_________________________________
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION
`Petitioner,
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.
`Patent Owner,
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00040
`Patent 6,771,290
`_________________________________
`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.
`Patent Owner
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00044
`Patent 6,771,290 B1
`_________________________________
`SONY MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS (USA) INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.
`Patent Owner
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00029
`Patent 6,771,290
`_______________________________________________________
` (continued on next page)
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 1
`
`
`August 19, 2014
`
`1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`GOOGLE INC.
`Petitioner,
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C. DEPOSITION OF
`Patent Owner, CORY PLOCK
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00031
`Patent 6,771,290 B1
`_________________________________
`MICROSOFT CORPORATION
`Petitioner,
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.
`Patent Owner,
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00040
`Patent 6,771,290
`_________________________________
`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS AMERICA, INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.
`Patent Owner
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00044
`Patent 6,771,290 B1
`_________________________________
`SONY MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS (USA) INC.
`Petitioner
`v.
`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, L.L.C.
`Patent Owner
`___________
`Case IPR2014-00029
`Patent 6,771,290
`_______________________________________________________
` (continued on next page)
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 1
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`2
`
` T R A N S C R I P T of the stenographic
`notes of THERESA L. TIERNAN, a Certified Court Reporter
`and Notary Public, taken at
`the offices of GREENBERG TRAURIG, METLIFE BUILDING, 200
`PARK AVENUE, NEW YORK, NEW YORK, on TUESDAY, AUGUST 19,
`2014, commencing at 12:50 p.m.
`
`_______________________________________________________
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`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`Google Ex. 1015, pg 2
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`3
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
` MAYER BROWN, LLP
` BY: JOHN X. ZHU, ESQ.,
` 1999 K. STREET, N.W.
` WASHINGTON, D.C. 20006-1101
` JZHU@MAYORBROWN.COM
` (202) 263-3318
` Attorneys for Google Inc.
` SIDLEY AUSTIN, LLP
` BY: SCOTT M. BORDER, ESQ.,
` 1501 K. STREET, N.W.
` WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005
` SBORDER@SIDLEY.COM
` (202) 736-8818
` Attorneys for Microsoft Corporation.
` GREENBERG TRAURIG
` BY: BARRY J. SCHINDLER, ESQ.,
` and JUSTIN A. MACLEAN, ESQ.,
` 200 PARK AVENUE
` NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10166
` (973) 539-4944
` SCHINDLERB@GTLAW.COM
` MACLEANJ@GTLAW.COM
` Attorneys for Samsung Electronics America, Inc.
` KENYON & KENYON, LLP
` BY: PAUL T. QUALEY, ESQ,.
` and MICHAEL E. SANDER, ESQ.,
` 1500 K STREET, N.W.
` WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-1257
` (202) 220-4200
` PQUALEY@KENYON.COM
` MSANDER@KENYON.COM
` Attorneys for Sony Mobile Communications, (USA)
` Inc.
` FREITAS, ANGELL & WEINBERG, LLP
` BY: DANIEL J. WEINBERG, ESQ.,
` 350 MARINE PARKWAY
` SUITE 200
` REDWOOD SHORES, CALIFORNIA 94085
` DWEINBERG@FAWLAW.COM
` (650) 730-5501
` Attorneys for B.E. Technology, LLC.
`
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`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 3
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`4
`
` I N D E X
`WITNESS DIR CRS RED REC
`CORY PLOCK
`BY: MR. SCHINDLER 5
`BY: MR. QUALEY 29
`
` E X H I B I T S
`NUMBER DESCRIPTION IDENT
` NO EXHIBITS MARKED DURING DEPOSITION.
` ALL EXHIBITS PREMARKED.
`
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`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 4
`
`
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`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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`C O R Y P L O C K, 1604 EATON COURT, DANBURY,
`CONNECTICUT, being first duly sworn by the Notary,
`testifies as follows:
` MR. SCHINDLER: We'll each identify
`ourselves for the record.
` Barry Schlinder from the firm of
`Greenberg Traurig. I'm here with Justin MacLean.
`We represent Samsung in the IPR2014-00044.
` MR. QUALEY: Paul Qualey and Michael
`Sander from Kenyon and Kenyon. We represent Sony
`Mobile in IPR2014-00029.
` MR. ZHU: John Zhu of the firm Mayer
`Brown representing Google for IPRs -- IPR numbers
`2014-00031 and 33.
` MR. BORDER: And Scott Border from
`Sidley Austin. We represent Microsoft, and this is
`for IPR2014-00040.
` MR. WEINBERG: Dan Weinberg from
`Freitas, Angell and Weinberg on behalf of patent
`owner B.E. Technology, LLC, in all of those IPRs.
`DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. SCHINDLER:
` Q Good afternoon, Dr. Plock.
`A Good afternoon.
` Q Dr. Plock, let me just get some
`procedural administrative issues out of the way so
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 5
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`6
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`you don't have to answer any of these.
` Prior to the deposition beginning, the
`parties had a discussion, and there was an agreement
`that what the parties were trying to do to
`streamline this IPR, the parties are trying to, when
`the declarations overlap, each party is trying to
`take a section so we don't overlap the sections to
`make it efficient. We've also agreed that because,
`where the declarations are consistent, if I'm using
`a certain paragraph number, and if it's consistent
`with another paragraph number for another IPR, that
`opposing counsel agree that that would be -- could
`be used as evidence in testimony, correct?
` MR. WEINBERG: That's correct. That's
`fine with us. We'll stipulate to that. And to the
`extent that the paragraph numbering gets off, or is
`possible it could get off, I suggest we just use one
`of the declarations when we question the witness, if
`that's possible.
` Is that consistent?
` MR. QUALEY: That's fine. I think
`that's fine.
` MR. BORDER: That would be fine.
` Q So, Dr. Plock, let me just again
`introduce myself.
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 6
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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` My name is Barry Schindler. I'm with
`the firm of Greenberg Traurig, and I represent
`Samsung in this matter.
` Have you been deposed before?
`A Yes, I have.
` Q So are you aware of the procedures in a
`deposition, such as I'm going to ask you a question,
`and if you don't understand my question, I'd like
`you to ask me about the question.
` Is that correct?
` Do I have your agreement on that?
`A Yes, I understand.
` Q So, therefore, your agreement is if you
`answer the question, then you've understood my
`question.
` Is that correct?
`A Yes.
` Q Is there any reason why today you
`should not be able to answer all of my questions
`clearly and thoughtfully?
`A Not -- no.
` Q Okay. Are you on any medication that
`would, in any way, impair anything today?
`A No.
` Q Okay. So you're comfortable with the
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 7
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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`procedure that there's going to be Court Reporter
`taking down all the testimony.
` You understand that?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. So, Dr. Plock, what I want to
`do, actually, is I'm going to go right into your
`declaration. And I'm going to show you what is
`Samsung, the Declaration of Dr. Cory Plock in
`Support of Patent Owner's Response to Petition, and
`it's marked at Exhibit 2001. I'd like to give you
`that.
` And, Dr. Plock, first take a look at
`that, and confirm that that is the declaration that
`you submitted in the Samsung IPR.
`A Yes, this is.
` Q And that is. And if you turn to the
`last page of that exhibit -- actually, the second to
`last page. And it's been signed "Cory Plock".
` Is that your signature?
`A Yes, it is.
` Q And on or about what date did you
`execute this declaration?
`A It was executed on July 9th of this year.
` Q Okay. I'm going to actually go
`directly to, if you would turn to page 6 of the
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 8
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`
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`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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`declaration, and I'm going to ask you -- I'm going
`to be asking you questions with regard to paragraphs
`19 to 22.
` So if you would take a moment to read
`19 to 22 and refresh your recollection on that.
`A Okay.
` Q Okay. And also, so that we can try to
`streamline this, I'm going to show you a copy of
`Kikinis exhibit, which is actually Samsung's Exhibit
`1007; is Sony's Exhibit 1008; Microsoft's Exhibit
`1005; and Google's Exhibit 1002.
` But during the deposition, I'm going to
`be referring to it as Samsung Exhibit 1007, Kikinis.
`I'll show you a copy of that.
` And just all I'm going to ask you is:
`Have you seen a copy of that before?
`A Yes.
` Q You've seen that.
` And during the deposition I'm going to
`be referring to it as the Kikinis references.
` Are you okay with that?
`A Yes, I am.
` Q And I'm going to show you one more
`exhibit, and that is the U.S. Patent 6,771,290 B1,
`which is Samsung Exhibit 1001; Sony Exhibit 1001;
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 9
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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`Microsoft Exhibit 1001; and Google Exhibit 1001.
` If you could just take a look at that.
` Have you seen a copy of that exhibit?
`A Yes.
` Q And during the deposition if I refer to
`that as the '290 patent, are you okay with that?
`A Yes, I am.
` Q So what I'd like to do now is, again,
`direct your attention to the paragraphs 19 and 20,
`and also to Figure 2 of the Kikinis reference.
` Do you have that in front of you?
`And --
`A Yes.
` Q -- am I correct that during your --
`that your opinion was, in part, formed by looking at
`and reviewing Figure 2?
` MR. WEINBERG: Objection. Vague as to
`opinion.
` MR. SCHINDLER: I'll withdraw that, and
`I'll ask it this way.
` Q Have you seen Figure 2 before?
`A Yes, I have.
` Q Did you, in any way, use Figure 2 to,
`in any way, come up with any opinions that are in
`your declaration?
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 10
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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`A And are you speaking specifically about
`paragraphs 19 through 22?
` Q Correct.
`A I would say that my opinion partly relies
`upon Figure 2.
` Q And other parts of Kikinis as well,
`correct?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. So let me ask you about Figure
`2.
` You see items 65 and 109 there on the
`left-hand bottom?
`A Yes, I do.
` Q And do you see they say WWW Browser and
`WWW Browser?
`A Yes, I see that.
` Q Do you understand that to be a browser?
`A I understand those to be a web browser.
` Q Okay. And is a web browser a program,
`as Kikinis uses it?
`A I understand the web browser to be a program
`as Kikinis uses it, yes.
` Q Correct. And the web browser that is
`shown as Item 65 and 109, is that on the client
`computer?
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 11
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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`A I'm not exactly sure how to answer that,
`because I think the question presupposes that
`there's only one client computer that could be, in
`general, several clients --
` Q Fine.
`A -- running browsers.
` Q So let me ask it this way. So let's
`start with Item 65 in the web browser. When it says
`"User Station", do you consider a user station to
`be -- to be -- to be equivalent to being on at least
`one client computer?
`A Yes, I think that's a fair characterization.
` Q And what about 109? Same?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. And a browser -- the browser,
`would you agree that a browser is stored on a
`non-volatile storage device, the browser shown in
`Kikinis as Item 65 and the 109?
`A I can't conclude based on this alone that
`it's stored on a non-volatile storage device.
` Q Fair. So if you would to go to page 6
`of Kikinis.
`A Column 6?
` Q So it's page 6 on the top.
`A Okay.
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 12
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`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
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` Q I think patents sometimes have columns.
`When it's a WO reference it tends to have page
`numbers.
`A Okay. I see it.
` Q If I refer to it as column, a page, I
`may be mistaken, but we understand what's on the top
`is either page number or column number, correct, 6?
`A Yes, I agree.
` Q Now, I would like to direct your
`attention to the third paragraph, and it
`specifically talks about the user station. It says,
`"In the system of Figure 2, user station 53
`comprises a high-speed modem 61, a computer system
`63 having well-known elements of such as a computer
`system, including a Web-browser 65 and PPP or SLIP
`communication software (not shown)."
` Do you see that?
`A Yes.
` Q Based on that disclosure in Kikinis,
`would you agree that a web browser, which is a
`program, would reside on a non-volatile storage
`device?
`A Since it's -- a computer system, such as that
`would typically have a non-volatile storage device
`with a web browser stored on it, I would say yes,
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 13
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`
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`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
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`but not necessarily in all cases necessarily.
` Q But in the context that's disclosed
`here in this paragraph I just read, a web browser
`would reside or be stored on -- sorry, would be
`stored on a non-volatile storage device, correct?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. Let me ask you about -- a little
`bit more about web browsers.
` You're familiar with web browsers?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. So does a web browser send a
`request for a resource or for -- what does a web --
`strike that.
` Let me ask you this way: Does a web
`browser send a request for something? And I'm
`specifically staying in the world of Kikinis.
`A Yes, I would say that it sends a request for
`a resource.
` Q Okay. Now, if you -- I would like to
`direct your attention to page 6 still, and the first
`paragraph that says, "The present invention
`cooperates with the conventional facilities of the
`World Wide Web to realize real-time remote access to
`any kind of electronic document, including e-mail.
`This invention includes a home page that operates in
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 14
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`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
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`conjunction with suitable gateway interfaces
`inserted between an Internet server and various
`electronic documents servers."
` Did I read that correctly?
`A Yes.
` Q So my question is: When we're talking
`about -- and let's go back to Figure 2.
` So when we're talking about Item 53 and
`55, but 53, you agree, is what's called the client
`computer?
`A I would say 63 would be a client computer.
` Q Okay. Okay. So the question I have
`for you is: You have a browser that's Item 65,
`correct? In fig -- I'm still in Figure 2, right?
`A Yes.
` Q And you have a computer, which is, as
`we -- we just said, 63 which is a client computer.
` That's what you've agreed to, correct?
`A Yes.
` Q So would the browser -- and given the
`section I just read you, and if you have to go back,
`please do -- would the browser be used to select an
`item from the home page?
`A Are you referring to a specific home page?
` Q I would like to direct you back to page
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
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`Google Ex. 1015, pg 15
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`
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`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
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`6, and the first paragraph where I read the
`reference to "a home page that operates in
`conjunction". So I was just talking generally.
` Based on this disclosure in Figure 2,
`would the client computer use the browser to select
`an item from the home page, as one thing it could
`do?
`A I think you asked if the client computer
`would select the --
` Q The browser, going through the client
`computer, would that be able to select a home page
`based on what Kikinis discloses?
`A Well, no, the browser would not do the
`selection.
` Q What would do the selection?
`A Typically, a user of a computer.
` Q Okay. So the user would do the -- the
`user would be in front of a client computer with a
`browser on the screen, correct?
`A Yes.
` Q And the user would then select the home
`page with the browser on the screen, and I'm talking
`about in Kikinis, what Kikinis discloses.
`A Could you be more specific? When you say
`"select a home page", do you mean type in the URL of
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`Google Ex. 1015, pg 16
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`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
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`a home page?
` Q Let's give that as an example.
`A Okay. So you're asking me if that's
`possible.
` Q Not possible. Does Kikinis disclose
`that?
`A Okay. Well, since that paragraph doesn't
`seem to make any reference to a user, I would say
`no.
` Q Okay. And then if you go to the next
`paragraph where, "Figure 2 is a block diagram
`illustrating how Internet users may remotely
`retrieve an electronic document of all sorts."
` Do you see that?
`A Yes.
` Q Let's go back to Figure 2 now.
` You have Figure 2 in front of you,
`correct?
`A Yes.
` Q So I'll ask the same question: With
`regard to Figure 2 of Kikinis, would -- does this
`disclose -- does this disclose that if a -- strike
`that.
` So Item 63, the computer is a client
`computer. We both agree on that, right?
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 17
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`18
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`A Yes.
` Q Okay. Would you agree that a user of
`this client computer would use the browser, Item 65,
`to select an item from the home page given what
`Figure 2 shows?
`A I don't think Figure 2 teaches that.
` Q Figure 2 does not teach that. So a
`client computer on Item 63, correct?
`A Yes.
` Q You have a web browser, which is Item
`65?
`A Yes.
` Q And the disclosure in Kikinis on page 6
`about a home page, and then further disclosure about
`Figure 2.
`A Uh-huh, yes.
` Q You're saying that this would not teach
`someone to be able to select a home page using the
`client computer with the browser?
`A So the figure, I don't see any reference to a
`user on the figure. I don't see anything in the
`figure that teaches how the user would interact with
`the computer. The figure seems to be showing more
`of an architecture.
` Q So it's your testimony that Figure 2 is
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 18
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`19
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`an architecture and one, in no way, would be able to
`able to understand that a user would use the client
`computer?
`A I think it would be reasonable to infer that
`a user may use a computer, but I don't see that
`Figure 2 teaches that.
` Q And the reason is because there is
`no -- the word "user" is not on Figure 2?
`A Yes, that, and I don't see any item on here
`that demonstrates or illustrates the user's
`interaction with the client computer.
` Q Okay. So if you would turn to page 7,
`and I would direct you to line 17 of page 7, and
`I'll read, "A subscriber may use the facilities of
`the Web to access his or her home page on ISP 57
`from anywhere on the Earth," and it goes on to talk
`about the user.
` So it's your testimony still that
`Figure 2 in no way teaches what a user would do?
`A Well, since it's still the same Figure 2, I
`would say yes. Figure 2, by itself, does not.
` Q But Figure 2, with the knowledge of
`what is disclosed about Figure 2, and that's what
`I've been asking you about, not just Figure 2 in a
`vacuum. Figure 2, as described in Kikinis, Figure 2
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 19
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`20
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`does disclose how a user would interact with Figure
`2, correct?
`A I would agree that the text of Kikinis does
`explain the user interacting with the client
`computer.
` Q And in conjunction with Figure 2?
`A I think Figure 2 would help the reader
`understand the architecture, as I said before.
` Q And --
`A But --
` Q I'm sorry.
`A You would need the text, you know, to -- for
`me, I wouldn't personally need the text in order to
`conclude that there's any disclosure about the user
`interaction.
` Q So the text, in conjunction with Figure
`2?
`A Yes.
` Q Thank you.
` And you may have misunderstood me. I
`was in no way just saying, "Please read Figure 2 in
`a vacuum." That's why I kept trying to direct you
`back to the text, Figure 2 as read in conjunction
`with the text.
`A I did not understand the question to be read
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 20
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`21
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`that way.
` Q My fault.
` So I would like to go to, in your
`opinion, where you state in paragraph 20 that, and
`read paragraph 20 to yourself, and I'll have some
`questions on that.
`A Okay.
` Q Now, I'm going to ask you questions
`about Figure 2, but, by all means, not in a vacuum,
`so please, if you need to also look at what you have
`open on page 6 and 7, please do that. So when I ask
`you a question in Figure 2, it's not just Figure 2
`in a vacuum.
` Do you have that understanding now?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. So do I understand that your
`opinion is that the browser, which is on the client
`side, correct?
`A Can you explain what you mean by "client
`side"?
` Q So do we have -- so you would agree
`that there is -- and I thought that you referred to
`two different -- you referred to a server side,
`correct, and what is on the other side. And I'll
`direct to you paragraph 22 when you talk about
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 21
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`22
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`server side. There's also what is -- I was
`referring to as client side.
` Is there another term you want to use
`on that? Paragraph 22, sorry.
`A Oh. Can you repeat the question?
` Q Yes. My question is: You see in
`paragraph 22 that you refer to a server side,
`correct?
` So my direct question is: In Figure 2
`is there a server side shown?
`A So I do reference in my declaration a web
`server. Is that what you mean by "server side"?
` Q No, you also in the last sentence refer
`to a server-side technology.
`A Okay. One more time, the question.
` Q The question is: Where is the server
`side in Figure 2?
`A So I don't see a number that references the
`box, but there is a solid line drawn around several
`of the components in this diagram. It's the box
`that encloses 67, 73, and all the other items.
` Q And all those items. So it's on the
`right-hand side, and there's -- in the right-hand
`corner it says "User's Provider", but that whole big
`box you would call the server side?
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 22
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`23
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`A Yes.
` Q Okay. What -- on the left-hand side
`would you not call that the client side?
` What would you call what's on the
`left-hand side?
`A I would refer to 63 and 107 as being -- I
`already said they were clients, so --
` Q Okay.
`A -- so I would refer to them as being on the
`client side.
` Q Client side. Okay.
` So my question, just to understand,
`now, are we in agreement that when you talk about,
`in paragraph 20, that when you talk about the files
`associated with a selected user link from the user
`library, are you referring to items 89, 91, 93, and
`95?
`A I think we would have to fix a definition of
`user library before I can answer that question.
` Q So let's drop out the words "user
`library" from there right now.
` So let me just ask you this: Is 89,
`91, 93 data base files?
`A No.
` Q They're not data base -- sorry, data
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 23
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`24
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`bases?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. Now, you said you would have to
`drop out the term "user library". So I'm asking you
`on paragraph 20 when you said that, "Kikinis
`utilizes remotely stored programs to access data
`bases - not the program stored on 'said non-volatile
`data storage device'".
` Do you see that? That's in your
`paragraph 20.
`A Yes, I see that.
` Q My question is: Is it because your
`opinion that the -- in order for the browser to
`access this data base, it needs to go through the
`intermediary server-side programs such as 79, 81, 85
`and 87?
`A Yes.
` Q So then is it your opinion that because
`the browser cannot directly access the data base
`shown in 89, 91, and 93 and 95, that's why -- that's
`the reason that you form this opinion in paragraph
`20?
`A Yes.
` Q So are you familiar with browsers such
`as Netscape Navigator?
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 24
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`25
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`A Yes.
` Q Okay. And Netscape Communicator?
`A Yes. I've used those both.
` Q Microsoft Internet Explorer?
`A Yes.
` Q And what about Opera?
`A I am familiar with it. I don't use that
`currently myself.
` Q Okay. And so is it your opinion that
`those browsers also would not or cannot directly
`access data base, such as database 89, 91, 93, 95?
` MR. WEINBERG: Objection, vague.
`A Just to clarify, are we speaking about what
`is taught by Kikinis specifically, or what is
`possible?
` Q No. Fair question. So let me withdraw
`that question.
` Let me -- I want to switch gears, and I
`want to go to the '290 patent.
` And you said you're familiar with the
`'290 patent, correct?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. I'd like to direct you to column
`36, and lines 16 to 33, if you could read that.
` So column 36, 16 to 33.
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 25
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`26
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`A Okay.
` Q You've read that?
`A Yes.
` Q So would you agree that "disembodiment"
`describes a file being accessed in conjunction with
`suitable server software?
`A Can you repeat your question?
` MR. SCHINDLER: Can you repeat the
`question?
` (Stenographer reads back as requested.)
`A I don't know if I can conclude that based on
`this.
` Q What would you need in order to
`conclude that?
`A I see a server contacting a second server and
`obtaining the virtual card, as mentioned in the last
`sentence, but it's not clear to me what form that
`virtual card is in when it is transmitted to the
`requesting server.
` Q So you would need to know what?
`A I'm not sure I understand your question.
` Q You asked, "Ask me the question again,"
`and my answer is, "You said it was not clear," and I
`was asking you: What else do you need to know in
`order to answer that question?
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 26
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`27
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`A I would need more detail.
` Q Like what?
`A Well, for instance, by the text saying that a
`file is accessed.
` Q So because this doesn't say that a file
`is accessed, you don't know if a file is accessed?
`A Another point --
` Q Wait, let me -- just answer that
`question.
` Because the words "file is accessed" is
`not there, so you don't know if a file is accessed?
`A Well, that was exemplary.
` Q No, I want to stay on that example.
`A There isn't sufficient disclosure to conclude
`that a file was accessed based on what's written
`here. I don't know specifically what it would have
`to say, but I'm just reading the text.
` Q Right. This section, by going through
`what happens, and specifically the last two
`sentences, "This can be done by, for example,
`clicking an icon or hypertext link on the web site
`where the purchase is being made, with the software
`at the site then contacting the server containing
`the user profile to obtain the virtual card and
`deduct the price from the card."
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 27
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`28
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` That doesn't give you sufficient
`information whether a file is accessed?
`A No.
` Q What else could have happened if a file
`was not accessed?
`A A data base could have been accessed. Could
`have been.
` Q Okay. So it's not your -- so you don't
`have an issue with regard to the word "access", you
`have an issue of whether it's a file or database or
`something else.
` That's your question.
`A So the virtual card may be stored on the
`server in one form, but it may be not sent as a
`file. It may be sent, perhaps bits of information
`could be extracted from the file and sent. There's
`just detail that's not present here for me to
`conclude specifically what would be happening.
` Q But when it says, "This can be done by,
`for example, clicking an icon or hypertext link on
`the web site where the purchase is being made, with
`the software at the site and then contacting the
`server," you're saying this could be done without
`any access?
`A Well, I said any access to a file.
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 28
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`29
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` Q Right. So there has to be an access.
`It's just a question of whether it's a file, a
`database, or other types of items?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. Can I take a five minute break?
`A Uh-huh. Yes.
` (Recess taken at 1:43 p.m. and ended at 1:55
` p.m.)
` CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. QUALEY:
` Q All right. Good afternoon, Dr. Plock.
`I'm Paul Qualey from Kenyon and Kenyon and we
`represent Sony Mobile in the IPRs, which, I guess,
`particularly in IPR201400029.
` But I believe in front of you in your
`stack there you still have the declaration -- your
`declaration from the Samsung IPR, which is Exhibit
`201 in that IPR?
`A Yes.
` Q Okay. I'm going to be concerned with
`paragraphs 27 through 29, and based on our
`comparison, paragraphs 27 through 29 in the Samsung
`declaration are substantively the same in the
`declaration you put in the Sony IPR, as well as the
`declaration you put in the Google IPR, and they're
`also the Microsoft declaration you put in the
`
`CSI GLOBAL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`972-719-5000
`
`Google Ex. 1015, pg 29
`
`
`
`CORY PLOCK
`August 19, 2014
`
`30
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`Microsoft IPR, are those same paragraphs are 47
`through 49.
` But as we've stated earlier for, sort
`of, the convenience of everybody, we'll just go
`ahead with the Samsung declaratio
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