Trials@uspto.gov
`571-272-7822
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`Paper No. 30, 32, 32, 36, and 34
`Entered: February 5, 2015
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`
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`RECORD OF ORAL HEARING
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`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`- - - - - -
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`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`- - - - - -
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`SONY MOBILE COMMUNICATIONS (USA) INC., GOOGLE, INC.,
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`MICROSOFT CORPORATION, and SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS
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`AMERICA, INC.
`
`Petitioners
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`vs.
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`B.E. TECHNOLOGY, LLC
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`Patent Owner
`
`- - - - - -
`
`Case Nos. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
`Application No. 09/744033
`Technology Center 2100
`- - - - - -
`
`Oral Hearing Held: Thursday, December 11, 2014
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`
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`Before SALLY C. MEDLEY, KALYAN K. DESHPANDE, and LYNNE E.
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`PETTIGREW, Administrative Patent Judges.
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`
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`The above-entitled matter came on for hearing on Thursday, December 11,
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`2014 at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, 600 Dulany Street,
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`Alexandria, Virginia at 1:00 p.m. in Courtroom A.
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`

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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`
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`APPEARANCES:
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONERS:
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`JEFFREY P. KUSHAN, ESQ.
`SCOTT M. BORDER, ESQ.
`Sidley Austin LLP
`1501 K Street, N.W.
`Washington, D.C. 20005
`202-738-8914
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`and
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`BRIAN A. ROSENTHAL, ESQ.
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`CLINTON H. BRANNON, ESQ.
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`Mayer Brown LLP
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`1999 K Street, N.W.
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`Washington, D.C. 20006-1101
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`202-263-3000
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`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
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`JASON ANGELL, ESQ.
`ROBERT E. FREITAS, ESQ.
`DANIEL J. WEINBERG, ESQ.
`DANA M. ZOTTOLA, ESQ.
`Freitas Angell & Weinberg LLP
`100 Marine Parkway, Suite 200
`Redwood Shores, California 94065
`jangell@ftklaw.com
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
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`( 1:00 p . m. )
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Good aft e rnoon. Th is is the
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`h ea ri ng inv olvin g P a ten t Own er B .E. Te c hnolo g y' s U. S . P at ent
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`Nu mb e r 6 ,771 ,290 , t he '29 0 pa te nt. Th is h ea rin g invo lve s I P R
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`20 14 - 00029 , 3 1 , 33 , 40 , a nd 44 . Th e r es pe cti ve Pe tit ion er s
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`b eing Son y, Go ogl e , Goo gle , Mi c roso ft , and S a ms ung .
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`On De ce mb e r 9th a co nf e ren c e c al l wa s h eld
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`in volvi ng c ouns el f o r th e r esp e ctive pa rt ie s an d us . On e
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`pu rpo se o f t he cal l wa s to di scu ss B . E. Te ch nolog y c ouns el 's
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`a bs enc e fo r th e he a rin g tod a y; s pec i fic al l y, M r . Ang ell , le ad
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`c ouns el , exp lai ned t ha t an urg ent wo rk ma t t er a rose th at
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`wou ld p re ven t his a bs enc e t oda y.
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`P e titi one rs d id not o b ject to hi s not b eing he r e
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`to da y. B a c kup cou nse l f or B . E. , who is no t r egi ster ed to
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`p ra ct ic e b ef or e the of fi c e , but was a d mi tt ed fo r th e li mi t ed
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`pu rpo se o f p a rti cip ati ng in t h es e p ro ce ed ings , wi ll pr e sen t
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`to da y.
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`As the pa rti es a re a wa r e , a p a rt y who has cou nse l
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`a d mi tt ed p ro h a c vi c e is t o ha ve a r eg ist e red pr a ctitio ne r
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`r ep r es ent t he p a rty a s l e ad c ouns el f o r th e pr oc e edings .
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`M or eov e r , th e Off i ce exp ec ts th at l e ad c ouns el wi ll p ar ti cip at e
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`in al l he a ring s with th e Bo a rd .
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`I de al l y M r . An gell s hould be h e re . Ho wev er ,
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`gi ven th e sp eci fi c f a cts of the se p ro ce ed ings , t he Boa rd ha s
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`d et er mi n ed it is in t he int er est s o f ju sti ce to p ro ce ed wi th
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`P a ten t Own er 's cou nse l ad mi t t ed pr o h ac v ic e .
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`Th e Pe titi one rs re qu est ed , and th e B oa rd gr ant ed ,
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`a utho ri z atio n fo r th e Pe tit ione rs to c oll e ctiv el y p r e se nt
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`a rg u me nt s in a cons olid at ed h ea ri ng . P er t he Novemb e r 10 th
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`o rd er , the co lle ctiv e p eti tion e rs wil l ha ve 6 0 mi nut es o f t ota l
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`t i me to p r es ent argu me n ts .
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`Th e coll e ctiv e Pet ition e rs wi ll p roc e ed fi rst t o
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`p re se nt th ei r c as e wi th r es pe ct to th e c ha lle n ge d cl ai ms a nd
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`g roun ds f or which t he Bo ar d ins titut ed tri al . The r ea f te r ,
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`P a ten t Own er will r espon d to Pe titio ne r 's p re se nta tion and
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`P e titi one r ma y r e s e rve r ebut tal ti me . At th is ti me w e woul d
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`l ike cou nse l who wi ll p re sen t to p le as e i den ti f y th ems e l v e s
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`b egin ning with Pe tit ion er .
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`M R . KUS HAN: Goo d a ft e rnoon , You r Ho nor s .
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`J e ff Ku sh an f ro m S idl e y f o r M ic roso ft . Wi th me i s S c ott
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`B o rde r fr o m S id le y a n d R ob Lyt le f r o m M i cro so ft . And I wi ll
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`b e sp ea king , b y t h e wa y, on b eh al f o f all th e p eti tion er s
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`r eg a rd in g th e Kikin is re f er en ce . And I h av e a coup le of oth er
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`a d mi nis tr ati ve issu es I woul d lik e to t ouc h on .
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`M R . R OS ENTHAL: Good af te rnoon , I a m B r ia n
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`R os enth al f ro m t h e l a w f ir m o f Ma ye r B r o wn . With me i s
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`C lin t B r annon , lea d c ouns el . I a lso h av e Joh n Zhu , a ga in ,
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`h elp ing me . An d f r o m t he cli ent fr o m Go ogl e is Vic to r Hsu .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: And you will be pr es ent ing
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`a lso?
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`M R . R OS ENTHAL: I wi ll b e p re se nti ng on on l y
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`th e Fol e y r e f er enc e , the Googl e p et ition , al though th er e i s a
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`po ssibi lit y I ma y c o mme n t on th e Ki kinis stu ff , unlik el y.
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Oka y. Th an k you .
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`M R . WEI NB ER G: Good aft e rnoon to th e Bo a rd .
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`M y n a me i s Dan We i nb e rg o f F r eita s Ang ell & We inb er g .
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`Wi t h me is Dan a Zo ttol a , as we ll as Rob e rt Fr eit as . I wil l be
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`p re se nting on b eha l f of th e P at ent Own e r tod a y a s it r e la tes to
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`a ll o f th e ar gu me nt s p res ent ed .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Than k you v e r y mu c h . Did
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`yo u wan t to d isc uss th e ad mi n ist ra tiv e ma t t ers ri ght no w?
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`M R . KUS HAN: Ye s , ju st v er y q uic kl y. As yo u
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`c an i ma gi ne , we h av e a n u mb e r o f di f fe r ent p et itione r s an d we
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`h ad to do a f ai r amo u nt of coo rdi na tio n be fo r e we got he r e .
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`Wh a t we woul d lik e , i f pos sibl e , is f iv e to t en mi n ute s o f a
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`b re ak a ft er t he p re se nt ation of the P a ten t Own er fo r us to
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`c onso lid at e ou r re spon ses to th e issu es tha t co me u p, so
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`ma yb e i f we could t ak e a f e w mi nut es t o or gan iz e our vi e ws ,
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`ju st b ec aus e we ha ve mu l tipl e p a rtie s th at a re p a rti cip ati ng
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`th rou gh on e voi ce .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Unde rs tood . Did yo u su gge st
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`th is to M r . We inbe rg?
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`M R . KUS HAN: I h av e not me n tion ed th is . I do n 't
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`kn o w i f he would h av e a p rob le m wi th us t ak ing a fiv e - o r
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`t en - mi nut e b re ak a f te r you a re done with yo u r r e ma r ks .
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`M R . WEI NB ER G: You kno w, so lon g as it is not
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`to o long , tha t woul d be oka y.
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Oka y. Ar e yo u ok a y wi th
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`th at? Fiv e mi nute s .
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`M R . KUS HAN: Ok a y. Th at would b e fin e . Th en
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`th e s e cond po int I woul d lik e to me nti on is t ha t be ca us e a ll
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`th e p eti tion s us e di f fe r ent exhi bit nu mb e r s f or t he ir r e f er en ce s
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`in th e do cu me nt s , we mi g ht o f fe r to p rov ide yo u wi th a c ha rt
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`th at le t' s us cor r el at e in e ach pro c ee ding whi ch e xhibi t
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`nu mb e r is cor r el at ed t o th e do cu me nt s be c aus e I will b e
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`r e f er rin g to p a rtic ul ar doc u me nts th roug h th e l ens of th e
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`M ic ro sof t ex hibi t nu mb e r s . And we mi g ht n e ed th e B oa rd as
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`yo u go th rou gh a ll the pro c eed ings to kno w wh i ch exhi bits
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`ma t c h . And we ca n sub mi t th at afte r the he a ring i f yo u wish
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`to hav e t hat .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: I don ' t kno w t ha t we ne ed tha t
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`f o r th e r e cor d . I me a n , I thi nk i f you c an jus t id ent if y, f o r
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`e xa mp l e , i n I P R 20 14 - 000 , th is is e xhib it , you know, t he
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`Ki kinis r ef e re nc e o r ho wev er , just id en tif y i t fo r th e r e co rd ,
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`f o r th e t ran sc rip t . I don 't k no w th at we n ee d a ro adma p a t the
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`e nd , bu t I app r ec ia t e it .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`M R . KUS HAN: Th at 's fin e . Th ose we r e th e
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`a d mi nis tr ati ve items .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Oka y. Al l right . Pl e ase
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`p ro ce ed , Pe tit ione r .
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`M R . KUS HAN: If poss ibl e a lso , i f I c ould h av e
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`my c l oc k s et f or 15 mi n ute s f or my o p en ing , and the n M r .
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`R os enth al will hop e to g et a s ep ar at e clo ck . I don 't a c tua ll y
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`s ee th e ligh t .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: I can te ll you wh en 15 mi n ute s
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`is up .
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`M R . KUS HAN: Th at wo uld b e g re a t .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Oka y.
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`M R . KUS HAN: S o I will be add re ssi ng r e ma r ks
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`a bout th e Kikin is r e f er en ce and the gr ounds bas ed on t ha t . I
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`a m c o un se l fo r Mi c roso ft and couns el fo r M ic roso ft on l y.
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`And I a m p r es enting vie ws f or the c oll e ctiv e Pe titi on er s , but I
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`do n' t r ep re sen t the oth e r pe titi one rs i n thi s pr oc e eding .
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`You inst itut ed t ria l at l ea st on t he M ic ro sof t
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`p eti tion o n al l th re e cl ai ms , a nd cla i ms 2 and 3 i n th e oth e r
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`p ro ce edi ngs . And t ha t In stit ution d ec isio n was wel l - f ound ed .
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`Th e re is a subst ant ia l a mo un t o f evi den c e supp or ting t ha t
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`d et er mi n at ion o f a nti cip at ion ov e r Ki kinis .
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`P a ten t Own er r aise d a han dfu l o f put at ive
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`di stin ct ions t hat e ith e r r esi de in the c lai m l a ngu ag e o r th e
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`r e f er en ce s or th eir o wn d is c losu r e . I thi nk wh en you ac tu all y
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`p rob e e a ch o f thos e , you fi nd th at tho se d isti nct ions do n' t
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`a c tua ll y e xis t .
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`We h a ve a fai rl y l i mi ted a mo un t of t i me , so wh at I
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`a m g o ing t o do is ju st foc us on a cou ple of issu es tha t I thin k
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`a r e o f sig ni fi can ce to all o f t he cl ai ms .
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`S o i f you c an put up cl ai m 6 o r sl ide 6 .
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`Th is is cl ai m 2 o f th e '290 pa ten t . And wha t I
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`wa nt t o do b ri ef ly i s sho w h o w Kiki nis add re sse s and the n
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`sh o ws e a ch o f th es e li mi t at ions .
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`I f yo u lo ok a t th e p re a mb l e , whi ch is a fa ir l y lon g
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`p re a mb l e , you see a r ef e ren c e th ere to a s erv e r sto ring a us e r
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`p ro fil e and a us er l ibr a r y wi th a numb e r o f l inks t o
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`do cu me n ts . And th at cl aus e , th at el e me n t of th e se rv er sto ring
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`a us er pro fi le is co mp l et el y s ho wn in Kikin is , i f you go to
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`sl id e 16 .
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`Th is is an ex ce rpt f r o m Ki kini s an d th is is
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`d es cr ibing wha t is ma i nt ain ed on th e Kik inis s e rv er . I t is a
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`d at ab ase whi ch is a us er -sp e ci fi c da t aba se p ro fil e . And yo u
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`wi ll s ee wha t is sto r ed for e ac h use r is a se t of lo we r -o rd er
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`d at ab ase s . I t is a c oll e ctio n of docu me n ts . Th e re a re e - ma i l
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`d at ab ase , a fa x da t aba se , a voi c e ma i l d at aba se , and o the r
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`e l ect ron ic doc u me nts . And th es e ar e link ed to th e us e r' s
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`sp e ci fi c se t o f fi le s .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`I t also h as a ho me pa ge , whic h is sp ec if ic fo r th e
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`us e r o r us er individ ua liz ed h o me pa ge . And as you c an se e ,
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`th is cor r el at es p re c ise l y to the pr ea mb l e o f cl ai m 1 o r c la i m 2 .
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`C ould yo u go b a ck t o sli de 6?
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`Th e n ext t hr e e limi t a tio ns ef f ect ive l y a r e d e finin g
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`a c lie nt co mp ut er th at is runnin g an i nst an ce o f a we b
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`b ro ws e r . And i f yo u look at t he lang uag e , i t is sp e ci f yi ng th at
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`th e p rog r a m i s goin g to p r ese nt a gr ap hi cal us er i nt er f a ce . It
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`h as an a ppli c ation windo w wi th a nu mb e r of u se r s el e cta bl e
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`i te ms . Ea c h ha s a lin k fo r t hos e us e r se le ct abl e it ems t h at
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`t ak e you to a r esou rc e ov e r a ne t wor k on a s er ve r .
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`I don 't think the re is an y d isput e th at t he web
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`b ro ws e r woul d sat isf y t h at el e me nt o f th e cla i m. An d t his i s
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`ju st a ge ne ri c f unc tio nal it y o f a web b ro wse r .
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`S o th e l ast cl aus e is whe r e th e dis put e s e e ms to
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`r e sid e . And h e re th is is r equi rin g th at t he re is a us er
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`s el ec tab le - - a use r p ro fi le t ha t is p re se nte d on th e c li ent
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`c o mp ut er and has a nu mb e r o f us e r s el ec tab le it e ms th at
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`p rovi de links to fi les .
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`No w, if yo u loo k a t -- g o to s lid e 9, pl e as e . This
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`is f ro m Ki ki nis . And ve r y c l ea rl y Ki kinis e mb odi es, in one of
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`i ts e mb o di me nt s is s ho wing a web b ro ws e r with a we b p age .
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`I t h as go t th e us er cu sto mi z ed int er f a ce to it , the use r -sp e ci fi c
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`p ro fil e o f a web p ag e . And th is is d epi cti ng th e in te r a ction s
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`th at a re t ypi ca ll y ob se rv e d wit h a we b b ro ws e r linkin g to
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`ot he r so ur ce s .
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`Go to sli de 1 3 .
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`Th is is als o f ro m Ki kinis . And it is s ho wing on
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`th e s e rve r t he h ome p a g e st or ed and the link s th at a r e on the
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`us e r 's ho me p ag e b eing co r re lat ed to i ndiv idua l s ets o f
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`r e sou rc es t hat thos e l i nks p rovi de ac c ess to . And t hos e
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`in cl ude the e - ma il p rog r a m, f a x p rog r a m, v oi ce ma i l , and
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`ot he r p rog ra ms .
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`Th is s che me , yo u kn o w, sho ws th e s e rve r
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`in te r ac ting o ve r th e n et wo rk to th e c o mp ut er , als o sho wn in
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`ye l l o w, whi ch h as t ha t web bro wser p res ent ing t he int e rf a ce ,
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`th e us e r c usto mi z e d in te r fa ce .
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`No w, this is e xa ct l y th e s a me s ch eme a s d epi ct ed
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`in th e ' 290 p at ent. I f yo u go to slid e 40 , t his i s f rom t h e '290
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`p at ent . An d you c an se e th e s a me ki nd o f f unc tion al it y. Ov e r
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`in it e m 1 5 is t he c li ent co mp u t e r . I t h as go t th e web b ro wse r
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`p re se nting the inte r f ac e to the use r. I t co mmu n ic at es t hr ough
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`th e n et wo rk to a s e rve r . And yo u s ee th e se rv e r pr ovi ding
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`a c c ess th rou gh a v ar ie t y o f s erv ic es , t ha t se rv e r is goi ng to
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`ma i n t ain at th e s er ve r s ide .
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`S o wh en we look a t th e Ki kinis sche me , a n d we
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`lo ok a t th e '290 pa t ent s ch e me , we s ee th e sa me s ys t e m. An d
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`th en yo u loo k in th e c la i m l ang uage an d you also see th at th e
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`c l ai m l a ngua ge is go ing to be me t .
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`No w, if yo u go t o sl id e 47 , th e di spu te s e e ms to
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`f oc us aro und -- but th en I will s a y th e re a re sev e ra l po ints
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`th at the y h a ve r ais ed in th ei r br ie fing , and a cro ss all th e
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`di f fe r ent p ro c eedin gs -- b ut th e cent r al th e me s e e ms t o be this
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`qu est ion o f wh ethe r in th at l as t cl aus e o f th e cl ai m 2 , t he links
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`a r e to spe ci fi c file s .
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`I n res pe ct t o cl aim 1 , th e y h av e a lso con ten ded
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`th at in th e Kik inis s ch e me , t he l inks and the use r l ink s a r e not
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`o rg ani ze d into r egi ons .
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`I f yo u go to sli de 69 , this is , a ga in, th e
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`in divid ua liz ed u se r web p ag e fro m Ki kinis . And we h av e
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`a dd ed s o me c o lor bo xes he r e to i llus tr at e th e di f fe re nt re gions
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`th at a re d ep ict ed on the int er f ac e .
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`You c an s ee so me o f th e li nks -- thos e ar e th e
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`bo xes tha t a r e d epi ct ed i n gr e en and blu e an d r ed -- so me o f
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`th e l inks a re go ing t o do cu me nt s , you c an go t o those AB C ,
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`XYZ l inks , if yo u c an go to s lid e 17 fo r a mi n ute .
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`Wh a t Ki kini s expl ain s is t hat as yo u ca n se e s o me
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`o f th es e li nks on th at use r ho me p ag e a r e on -s cr e en lin ks to
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`e l ect ron ic doc u me nts r ese rv ed fo r th e ho me p a ge own e r . I f
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`yo u go to slid e 69 ag ain , i n th e r ed b ox we se e a numb e r o f
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`ot he r ki nds o f li nks . The se a re l inks to d at aba se
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`f un ctio nal iti es t ha t we t alk ed a bout a mi nut e ago .
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`And th ese a re d isc r et e s ep ar at e links . The y a r e
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`o rg ani ze d in a di ff e r ent p a rt o f th e p ag e . And i f yo u go to
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`sl id e 16 v er y b r ief l y, we me n t ion ed t his b e for e , t hes e a r e
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`th es e lo we r - ord e r d at ab ase s th at are r e fe r red to in the Kiki nis
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`p at ent .
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`And wha t is i mp or t ant to ta ke a way f r o m t h is is
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`th at the se conn e ct ions , i f yo u go to s lid e 69 fo r a min ut e on e
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`mo r e t i me , so wha t yo u se e v er y c l e a rl y, yo u s ee a se t o f lin ks
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`e mb e dd ed i n a web b ro wse r p age tha t UR Ls ar e t aking t he m t o
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`th e sp e ci fi c r eso ur c es t he y a r e ass oc i ate d with . And th e y c a n
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`b e a va ri et y o f t yp es .
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`No w, the P at ent Own e r co nt ends th at t he cl ai ms
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`r eq ui re tha t e a ch l ink b e lin ked to a sp ec if ic fil e . And we
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`b eli ev e th at 's me t b y Ki kin is f or two d if f er ent r ea son s .
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`Th e fi rst on e i s th at t he re a re ma n y i n st an ces
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`sh o wn in Kikini s o f li nks go ing to do cu me n ts . And th is is
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`f a ir l y c le a r . This is sugg est ing th er e is li nks to a spe c ifi c
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`f il e .
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`Th e ot he r th ing to t ak e a wa y i s tha t wi th r eg a rd to
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`th e d at ab ase , this s ee ms t o b e th e bu lk o f th e a rgu me nt we s ee
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`f r o m t he P ate nt Own e r , th e y a rg ue th at the da tab as es a r e no t
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`f il es , t he y a r e se rvi c es o r so me o the r app lic at ion func ti o nal it y
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`r e sid ent on the ser ve r . An d so wh en yo u lin k to th em, yo u
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`c an not l ink to a fi le .
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`Th at cons tr uct ion di sr eg ar ds wh at is ac tu all y
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`d ef in ed to b e a f il e in the ir o wn p at ent . I f you c an go to sl ide
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`51 , this is th e p ate nt , t he '29 0 pa tent 's de fin itio n of wh at a
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`f il e is . It is a n y di git al i te m s t or ed i n me mo r y, a c ce ssi ble vi a
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`th e fil e allo c ation t abl e o r oth e r poin ting or i nde xing
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`st ru ctu r e .
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`No w, P at ent Owne r 's exp e rt , Dr . P lo ck , was
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`qu e ri ed a bout wha t is des c rib ed , this de fin itio n of the f il e ,
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`a nd also r el ating to th e dis cuss ion a bout whe the r t hes e
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`d at ab ase s in th e Ki kinis s yst e m me t th is d ef init ion . And he
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`c on fi r me d at hi s d epos itio n , he con fi r me d tha t a d ata ba se is a
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`di git al i te m. He a gr e ed it is st or ed i n me mo r y i n the se rv e r .
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`And he ag re ed i t is a cc ess ibl e vi a a f il e al loc at ion ta bl e .
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`He ma k e s b asi c all y t h e de fin itio nal con clu sion
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`th rou gh his te stimo n y t h at a d at aba se , ev en i n th ei r v er sion of
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`th e ca se , will me e t th e req ui re me n t o f t he fil e .
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`And I wo uld l ike to di re ct yo u to Exh ibit 2004 at
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`p ag e 59 , l ine 2 1 to p ag e 63 , l ine 20 . Th at 's th e pa ss ag e wh er e
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`th ei r exp er t , Dr . P lo ck , was t ak en th rou gh a ll th es e e l e me nts .
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`And he add r ess ed e a ch o f th e m.
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`We b e li eve bas ed on wha t Kikin is d es cr ibe s ,
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`wh ich sho ws l inks g oing t o do cu me nts , as well as link s goin g
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`to da tab as es , wh ic h a s ap pli ed in th e Kik inis s ch e me an d as
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`d ef in ed b y t he '290 pat en t a re fi les . Thos e el e me n ts h av e a ll
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`b ee n me t .
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`I a m a c t ua ll y go ing to sto p no w, i f th at is
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`po ssibl e . I don 't kn o w ho w mu c h ti me I h av e t ak en , bu t I
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`wou ld li ke t o r ese rv e t he b al an ce o f ou r ti me t o Kiki nis .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: You us ed t en min ut es .
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`J UDGE P ETTI GREW: I h av e a quest ion abou t
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`th at . So yo ur a rgu me n t is tha t a dat ab as e is a f il e , not th at th e
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`d at ab ase con ta ins f il es so th at a link t o th e d ata bas e wou ld b e
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`a lin k to fil es in th e d at aba se?
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`M R . KUS HAN: We l l , o ur a rgu me nt is th at - - we ll ,
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`ye s , c e rt ain l y th e c l ai ms co ve r all o f tho se thing s . I me a n , a
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`d at ab ase will , as in an y i nst an ce of op e ra tion , will be a fi le
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`un de r th e d ef init ion of t he Kikin is p at ent . I ' m s or r y, o f th e
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`' 290 pat en t .
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`We ' r e a lso po inting out th at the r e a r e sp e ci fic
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`r e f er en ce s lin king - - ta king links a nd t yi ng th e m t o
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`do cu me n ts , wh ich su gge st th at t ha t's a sp e cif ic fi le as well .
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`And one of the thin gs we ha ven 't ta lk ed about , o ne o f th e
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`a rg u me nt s th e y ha ve ma d e , I t hink, is th at th ei r s ys te m i s not
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`l ike oth er ite ms s ho wn in Ki kinis b ec aus e t he r e a re
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`a ppl ic ati ons runnin g on th e s e rve r , wh ich r espon d to a nd
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`h andl e t hes e req ue sts , r esou r ce r equ est s .
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`I don 't think the re is ac tua l l y a n y su ppo rt for the
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`vi e w t ha t th ei r s yst e m i n t he '29 0 pa t ent do esn 't do th at as
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`we ll . Thei r p at ent s a ys a s e rv er i s so me t hi ng whi ch r e sponds
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`to r equ ests . The c onv ent iona l wa y th e cli ent se rv ers i nt er a ct
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`is cl ien t ma k es a r eq ue st to the se rv er , th rough sof twa r e
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`r e sid ent on the ser ve r , ac ts on tha t r eq ue st a nd d elive r s wha t
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`is as ked of i t .
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`Case No. IPR2014-00029, 00031, 00033, 00040, 00044
`Patent No. 6,771,290
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`S o we be li eve we s ee se ve ra l ins tan ce s ,
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`e mb o di me n ts in Ki kinis th at wil l s ati sf y t h e cl ai ms .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Than k you .
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`M R . R OS ENTHAL: Good af te rnoon , Yo u r
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`Hon ors . I f you wou ld , it will t ak e h al f a mi n ut e to swi tch our
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`p re se nta tion s ov er to t he Fol e y r e fe r en ce . In the me an ti me , I
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`wa nt ed to , sin ce we ' r e also a Pet itio ne r in the Kikinis
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`r e f er en ce , just supp le me n t th e answe r to Jud ge P ettig r e w's
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`qu est ion abo u t wh at cons titu tes a f il e , b ec aus e on e o f th e
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`th ings tha t we r ais ed in ou r r epl y b r i ef is th at i n ad di tion t o
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`th e re adi ngs , wh ic h we co mp l et el y a gr e e wit h , th at th e li nk to
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`a n ind ividu al docu me n t on t he h o me pa ge is a link to a fil e ,
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`th at a l ink to the d a t ab ase is a link to th e fi le , be ca us e th e
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`d at ab ase is a fi le .
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`Th e re is ye t a thir d in te rp re ta tion , wh ich is th at
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`th e l ink to the da ta ba se p ro vid es a cc es s in i ts b ro adest
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`me a n in g to t he file s th at a re also con ta ine d with in th e
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`d at ab ase . So an y o f tho se t hr e e inte rp r et atio ns is just fi ne ,
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`c o mp le te l y wit hin t he s cop e o f th e b re ad th o f th e c la i m
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`l angu ag e .
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`And we ac tua ll y sub mi t te d with our r ep l y b ri ef as
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`Exh ibit 1016 d e fini tion s of a cc ess a nd asso ci at ed it to sho w
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`th at this k ind o f ind ir e ct a c ce ss o f l ike a on e -to - ma ny s o r t of
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`a r el ati onshi p is p er f ec tl y wi thin th e d ef init ion o f ac c ess .
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`You r Ho nor , I p rob abl y t ook a mi nu te o r s o , but I
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`wou ld li ke t o r ese rv e 15 mi n ut es fo r reb utt al .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: So t ot al 15 mi nut es?
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`M R . R OS ENTHAL: Tot al 15 mi nut es . So I a m
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`in cl uding tha t a s p ar t o f my t i me th at I jus t sp ent no w. I wi ll
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`sp end abo ut 14 min ut es on my F o le y r e f e r en ce .
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`J UDGE M EDLEY: Oka y.
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`M R . R OS ENTHAL: I f we c an go to s lid e 6 . Th e
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`g roun d th at Googl e fil ed it s p etit ion o n an d was insti tut ed on
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`is a 10 3 obvi ousne ss , wi th a sing le r e f er en ce . It is th e Fol e y
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`r e f er en ce .
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`Ju st in c ase it is n' t cl ea r , th e re ason t ha t we fil ed
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`th is as a 103 ra the r tha n a 1 02 is fo r a n iss ue t ha t is no t in
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`di sput e , whi ch is th at the Fo le y r e fe r en ce doe s not exp li citl y,
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`a lth ough i t al l but exp lic itl y s a ys it , d oes not expl ici tl y s a y
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`th at mu l tipl e us e rs ca n ha ve the ir pr o jec ts and po rt fol ios on
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`th e s a me c o mp ut er . I t do esn 't ac tua ll y s a y t ha t , but , o f
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`c ou rs e , th at is wha t th e s ys t e ms a re in te nde d to do . Ou r
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`e xp er t sa ys th a t . S o we didn 't wan t to ove r re a ch . We f il ed
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`th is ju st as a 103 .
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`And th e P at ent Own e r ha s not conte st ed th at tha t
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`wou ld b e an obviou s r e ad o r an obvi ous ext ensi on of thi s
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`e xpl ici t dis clo su re in Fol e y. Th e F ol e y r e f er en ce de sc ri bed it
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`a s a Ja va wo rks h op . It is f or peo pl e th at a re p rog r ammi n g
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`J av a ap pli ca tion s. I t allo ws th e m t o k e ep th ei r p ro jec ts ,
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`wh ich inc lud e comp i l ed and un comp i l ed and v a rious fi les
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`r e lat ed to th ei r p ro je cts , p or tfo lios to ge the r in one org ani z ed
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`wa y.
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`S o on o ur s lid e 7 , we ' r e sh o wing on e o f th e
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`f igu r es , whi ch i s a good ove rvi e w o f wh at Fol e y sho ws . You
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`b asi c all y h av e a po rt fol io ma n ag er th at is c ont ain ed in a
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`wi ndo w. And the po rt fol io ma n ag er a llo ws yo u to look at
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`di f fe r ent p or tfo lios , and withi n e ac h po rt fol io , look a t
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`di f fe r ent p ro je cts, so it is just a wa y o f o rga niz ing yo u r fil es .
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`And , ve r y i mp o rta ntl y, f i gu re 6 also d es c rib es a nd
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`th e ac co mp a n ying d es c ript ion a lso s a ys tha t you can h av e a
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`v er y f l ex ibl e sto ra ge st ruc tu re . You c an h ave ev e ryt h ing
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`lo c all y s to re d . You c an h ave r e mo t el y s to re d pr o je cts with a
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`lo c all y s to re d po rt fol io o r , mo st i mpo rt ant l y, yo u c an h av e a
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`r e mo t el y s to re d po rt fol io a nd p ro jec ts , wh ich me a n s th at on
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`th e re mo t e co mp ut e r you h av e th e po rt fol io and you h av e th e
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`p ro je cts asso ci at ed with th at p or tfo l io a ll to get he r on o ne
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`c o mp ut er .
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`Th at 's the e mb odime n t th at i s ex a ctl y wh a t is
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`c l ai me d in c lai m 2 o f th e '290 pa tent . I f we c an go to slid e
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`12 , ple as e .
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`Wh a t I wa nt ed to do with my t i me i s t o go th rou gh
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`c l ai m 2 an d jus t ma k e th e ma p ping v e r y c le a r . I t is o ne o f
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`th es e v er y e n jo ya bl e s itu atio ns whe r e i t is ac tua ll y a ve r y
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`c l ea r on e -to -on e ma p p ing b et we en th es e t e r ms and wh at i s in
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`F ol e y. S o wh at I di d wa s to conn ec t th e do ts b ec ause so me o f
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`th e t e r mi nolo g y is d if f er ent be t wee n th e p at ent and th e ' 290 .
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`B e fo re I d o th at , I jus t wa nte d to id ent if y wh a t th e