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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` __________________
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` __________________
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` AKER BIOMARINE AS
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` Petitioner
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` vs.
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` NEPTUNE TECHNOLOGIES AND BIORESOURCES, INC.
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` Patent Owner
`
` __________________
`
` Case IPR2014-00003
`
` U.S. Patent Number 8,278,351
`
` __________________
`
`
`
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF JACEK JACZYNSKI, Ph.D.
`
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Wednesday, August 27, 2015, 9:20 a.m.
`
`Reported by:
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`Laurie Bangart, RPR, CRR
`
`Job no: 12403
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`1
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`AKBM 1097
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`
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` __________________
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` __________________
`
` AKER BIOMARINE AS
`
` Petitioner
`
` vs.
`
` NEPTUNE TECHNOLOGIES AND BIORESOURCES, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` __________________
`
` Case IPR2014-00003
`
` U.S. Patent Number 8,278,351
`
` __________________
`
`
`
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF JACEK JACZYNSKI, Ph.D.
`
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Wednesday, August 27, 2015, 9:20 a.m.
`
`Reported by:
`
`Laurie Bangart, RPR, CRR
`
`Job no: 12403
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
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`AKBM 1097
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`Page 2
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` Video Deposition of
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` Jacek Jaczynski, Ph.D.
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` Held at the offices of:
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` COOLEY, LLP
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` 1299 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
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` Suite 700
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` Washington, D.C. 20004
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` (202)842-7800
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` Taken pursuant to notice, before
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` Laurie Bangart, Registered Professional
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` Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter and
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` Notary public in and for the District of
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` Columbia.
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER AKER BIOMARINE A.S.:
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` KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP
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` 300 North LaSalle
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` Chicago, Illinois 60654
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` (312)862-7160
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` By: ELIZABETH A. CUTRI, ESQ.
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` elizabeth.cutri@kirkland.com
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` ALSO ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER AKER BIOMARINE, A.S.:
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` KIRKLAND & ELLIS LLP
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` 333 South Hope Street
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` Los Angeles, California 90071
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` (213)680-8590
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` By: MICHAEL DE VRIES, ESQ.
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` michael.devries@kirkland.com
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` ON BEHALF OF ENZYMOTEC LTD AND ENZYMOTEC USA,
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` INC.:
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` KENYON & KENYON, LLP
`
` One Broadway
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` New York, New York 10004
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` (212)425-7200
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` By: DANIEL P. MARGOLIA, Ph.D., ESQ.
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` dmargolis@kenyon.com
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` (Appearances continued)
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` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER NEPTUNE TECHNOLOGIES AND
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`Page 4
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` BIORESOURCES:
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` COOLEY, LLP
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` One Freedom Square
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` 11951 Freedom Drive
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` Reston, Virginia 20190
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` (703)456-8091
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` By: LAURA J. CUNNINGHAM, ESQ.
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` lcunningham@cooley.com
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` ALSO PRESENT:
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` Krishna Sharma, videographer
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` Benoit Huart, Neptune
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` EXAMINATION INDEX
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` PAGE
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` EXAMINATION BY MR. DE VRIES . . . . . 8, 324, 350
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` EXAMINATION BY MS. CUNNINGHAM . . . . . . 307, 349
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`Page 5
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` E X H I B I T S
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` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` Exhibit 1 Declaration of Dr. Jacek
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` Jaczynski, Bates IPR2014-00003 . 11
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` Exhibit 2 Supplemental Declaration of
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` Dr. Jacek Jaczynski, Bates
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` IPR2014-0003 . . . . . . . . . . 12
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` Exhibit 3 Article entitled "Krill for
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` Human Consumption" . . . . . . . 40
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` Exhibit 4 U.S. Patent Number 7,763,717 B1 . 69
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` Exhibit 5 Hand-drawn diagram . . . . . . . 94
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` Exhibit 6 Patent Application Number
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` WO 00/23546, Bates AKBM 1002 . . 101
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` Exhibit 7 Hand-drawn diagram . . . . . . . 116
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` Exhibit 8 Hand-drawn diagram . . . . . . . 132
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` Exhibit 9 Article entitled "Gelation of
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` Protein Recovered from Whole
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` Antarctic Krill" . . . . . . . . 143
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` (Exhibits continued)
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` EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
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` Exhibit 10 Lab notebook kept by Beaudoin's
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` co-inventor, Bates NEP877ITC-
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` 00679899 . . . . . . . . . . . . 149
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` Exhibit 11 Lab notebook kept by Beaudoin's
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` co-inventor, Bates NEP877ITC-
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` 00679852 . . . . . . . . . . . . 149
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` Exhibit 12 Handwritten notes . . . . . . . . 174
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` Exhibit 13 U.S. Patent Number 8,278,351 B2 . 185
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` Exhibit 14 Transcript of video deposition of
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` Dr. Jaczynski in the Matter of
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` Certain Omega-3 Extracts" . . . . 185
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` Exhibit 15 Transcript of video deposition of
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` Dr. Jaczynski in the Matter of
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` Certain Omega-3 Extracts,"
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` Volume 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . 185
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` Exhibit 16 Guidance for Industry, Q3C, Tables
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` and List . . . . . . . . . . . . 214
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` Exhibit 17 Article entitled "Chemical changes
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` in Omega-3-enhanced farmed
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` rainbow trout fillets during
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` abusive-temperature storage" . . 225
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` Exhibit 18 The Fricke reference, Bates
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` AKBM 1006 . . . . . . . . . . . . 298
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning.
`
` This is tape number 1 in the videotaped
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` deposition of Dr. Jacek Jaczynski, taken in
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` the matter of Enzymotec LTD and Enzymotec
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` USA, Inc. versus Neptune Technologies and
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` Bioresources, in the United States Patent &
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` Trademark Office, case number IPR2014-00003.
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` This deposition is being held at
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` 1299 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest,
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` Washington, D.C. Zip code is 20004. The
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` date today is August 27, 2014, and the time
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` on the video monitor is 9:20.
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` My name is Krishna Sharma from the
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` firm of TransPerfect Legal Solutions, I'm the
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` legal video specialist, and the court
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` reporter today is Laurie Bangart, also in
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` association with TransPerfect Legal
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` Solutions.
`
` Will counsel please introduce
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` yourselves for the record.
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` MR. DE VRIES: Mike De Vries from
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` the law firm of Kirkland & Ellis, counsel for
`
` the petitioner, Aker Biomarine AS.
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` MS. CUTRI: Elizabeth Cutri also of
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` Kirkland & Ellis, also on behalf of Aker
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` Biomarine.
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` MR. MARGOLIS: Dan Margolis from
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` Kenyon & Kenyon for Enzymotec.
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Laura Cunningham
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` of Cooley, LLP, for patent owner Neptune
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` Technologies and Bioresources, and also with
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` me today is Mr. Benoit Huart of Neptune
`
` Technologies.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would the court
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` reporter please swear in the witness.
`
` JACEK JACZYNSKI, Ph.D.,
`
` having been first duly sworn, testified
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` upon his oath as follows:
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` EXAMINATION BY COUNSEL FOR AKER BIOMARINE A.S.
`
` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q Good morning, Dr. Jaczynski.
`
` A Good morning.
`
` Q Have I pronounced your name correctly?
`
` A Thank you. Correct.
`
` Q Dr. Jaczynski, other than the time you
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` were deposed in connection with the ITC proceeding
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` between at least Aker and Neptune, have you been
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` deposed any other time?
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` A No, I have not.
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` Q Have you been retained in connection
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`Page 9
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` with this proceeding?
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` A Yes, I have.
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` Q By who?
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` A By Neptune.
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` Q And when I refer to this proceeding, do
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` you understand that there is an inter partes
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` review before the Patent & Trademark Appeal Board,
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` the PTAB?
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` A Yes, that's my understanding, correct.
`
` Q What is your understanding of the
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` purpose of your retention in connection with this
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` proceeding?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: Could you define what
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` you mean by the purpose of my retention?
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q What is it that you understand you've
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` been retained to do?
`
` A My understanding is that I have been
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` retained to review certain documents and provide
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` opinions.
`
` Q Okay. Provide opinions concerning just
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` generally what?
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` A Certain matters indicated in the IPR.
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` Q Okay. Do you know whether there's a
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` patent that is at issue in the IPR?
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` A I believe you're referring to what we
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` call '351.
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` Q If I refer to the '351 patent as the
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` patent that is at issue in this IPR, will you know
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` what I mean?
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` A Yes. Yes, I will.
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` Q Have you prepared certain declarations
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` in connection with this IPR?
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` A Yes, I have.
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` Q Who asked you to prepare those
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` declarations?
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` A If I recall right, it was someone from
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` Cooley.
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` Q Cooley is counsel for Neptune?
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` A Correct. That is my understanding.
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` Q Do you know how many declarations you've
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` prepared in connection with this IPR?
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` A In connection with this IPR, I have
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` prepared one declaration and one supplemental
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` declaration in response to Enzymotec's request.
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` Q The supplemental declaration was
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` prepared in response to Enzymotec's request?
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` A That is my understanding.
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`Page 11
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` MR. DE VRIES: Okay. Let's mark
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` those documents as exhibits so you have them.
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` (Exhibit 1 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q Dr. Jaczynski, you've been handed a
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` document that's been marked as Deposition Exhibit
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` 1. It should be the, your declaration, the
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` declaration of Doctor -- and I'm sorry. How do
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` you pronounce your first name, sir?
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` A Jacek.
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` Q Dr. Jacek Jaczynski, and it's referred
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` to in the lower right-hand corner as Neptune
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` Exhibit 2059.
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` Is that the document you have in front
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` of you?
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` A This is what I see, Exhibit 1, and as
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` you said, NEPT in the lower right corner, EX 2059.
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: I would just note
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` for the record that this is a, something that
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` was filed by patent owner as a confidential
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` document, and we do have a Neptune
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` representative here today, so if at any point
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` you have a concern with that, please let me
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` know.
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` MR. DE VRIES: Okay. I will.
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` (Exhibit 2 was marked for
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` identification.)
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q Dr. Jaczynski, I've handed you or you've
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` been handed a document that's been marked as
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` Deposition Exhibit 2, and that document should be
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` a document that's marked in the lower right-hand
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` corner as Neptune Exhibit 2061, called the
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` Supplemental Declaration of Dr. Jacek Jaczynski;
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` is that correct?
`
` A Thank you. Yes, it is correct.
`
` Q Okay. Is Exhibit 1 your declaration
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` that you referred to earlier?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: After my quick
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` review, it appears so, and also Appendix A
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` and my CV attached.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q On page 62 of Exhibit 1, there's a
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` signature and a date.
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: Excuse me?
`
` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q Yes. I'm sorry. Do you see that?
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` A Yes, I do.
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` Q Is that your signature on page 62 of
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` Exhibit 1?
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` A Yes, it is.
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` Q Above your signature there's a
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` statement. I won't read it, but it refers to
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` generally a belief that statements are true and
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` knowledge that willful false statements and the
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` like so made are punishable by fine or
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` imprisonment, et cetera.
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` By signing the document on page 62, were
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` you affirming your understanding of that paragraph
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` 124?
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` A Yes, yes, I was.
`
` Q Okay, and then if you'd please look at
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` Exhibit 2, Deposition Exhibit 2, the supplemental
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` declaration, is that the supplemental declaration
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` that you referred to earlier?
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` A Again, based on my quick review, it
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` appears so, correct.
`
` Q If you'd please take a look at page --
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` sorry about that. I'll start over.
`
` If you'd please take a look at page 11
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` of Exhibit 2, there appears to be a signature and
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` a date.
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` A Yes. I can see the signature on page
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` 11.
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` Q And is that your signature?
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` A Yes, it is.
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` Q And does your signature on page 11 of
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` Exhibit 2 confirm your understanding and agreement
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` to what's stated in paragraph 19 on that page?
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` A Yes, that's correct.
`
` Q Okay.
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` Do the declarations marked as Exhibit 1
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` and Exhibit 2 in this deposition contain a
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` complete statement of all of your opinions in
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` connection with this proceeding?
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` A Yes, they do.
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` Q I'd like to ask you about the
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` circumstances of creation of this, this document.
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` Who wrote the first draft of Exhibit 1?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: I would just
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` caution the witness, it's fine to answer the
`
` question without revealing any of your
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` communications or conversations with counsel,
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` but you can answer that generally.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm -- in general
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` terms, I'm -- I wrote all of it.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q And that -- so you're -- so the answer
`
` to my question is that you wrote the first draft?
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` A That's my general understanding.
`
` Q So just, just to understand the
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` mechanics, I don't want to know about the
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` communication or the substance of the
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` communication.
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` To be clear, you're saying that you
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` typed in the words in the document initially;
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` somebody else didn't type the words for you?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q Is that right?
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` A Based on my recollection, to my best
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` knowledge, yes, I did.
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` Q Okay, and then did you edit the document
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` after you personally created -- when you said
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` that, you said you personally typed all the words
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` in the first draft of the declaration. After
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` that, did you edit the document?
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` A You're asking me for significant
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` technicalities in this case, and certainly I have
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` edited this document several times.
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` Q I want to make sure that we're on the --
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` that we understand one another. You said I
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` introduced "significant technicalities. Do you
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` have confusion about what I mean when I ask you if
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` you edited a document?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection.
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` Mischaracterizes testimony.
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` THE WITNESS: My understanding of
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` editing is just, you know, you review the
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` document back and forth, and you just, based
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` upon -- this is a work in progress until you
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` turn it in, so you edit back and forth.
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` That's my understanding.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q And do you understand that editing a
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` document means making changes to the words in the
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` document?
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` A Yes. That's my understanding, yes.
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` Q And you're not confused when I'm asking
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` you about that concept, are you?
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` A No, no, I'm not.
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` Q Did the attorneys make any edits to the
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` declaration? And by "attorneys" I mean the
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` counsel for Neptune.
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: I'm going to
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` caution the witness. You can answer that
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` question generally with a yes or no, but you
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` can't get into your communications with
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` counsel or the substance of the discussions
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` surrounding the preparation of your
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` declaration.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q And let me just say, because I'll reask
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` my question, that's absolutely right. I'm not
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` asking you to tell me about the substance, and so
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` just to be crystal clear about it, don't answer my
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` question with yes, they told me to edit this
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` particular portion. Yes, they told me to edit
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` that. I'm not asking you about the content of
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` what the edits would be.
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` Do you understand?
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` A I think I do, but I have to tell you,
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` with legal terms, sometimes -- that's not my
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` everyday life, so with legal terms, sometimes I
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` get a little bit confused, but to answer your
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` question, there was some editorial changes from
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` counsel, but it was more related to, based on my
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` recollection --
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` Q Are you going to -- you're not going to
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` tell me about the content of those edits, are you?
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` A Oh, that again -- I'm, I'm sorry.
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` Sometimes when there's legal terms I get confused.
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` Q I'm wanting to be sure you understand.
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` I'm not asking you to tell the contents of their
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` edits, and it sounded like you were going to.
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` Is it fair to say that the lawyers made
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` some edits to your declaration?
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` A It is.
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` Q And did you review and ultimately
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` approve any edits that the lawyers made that ended
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` up in your final declaration?
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` A Yes, I have.
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` Q Okay.
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` In your supplemental declaration, who
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` prepared the first draft of that document?
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` A That was pretty much the same way like
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` we did the original bigger document.
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` Q And does that mean that you personally
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` wrote all of the words in the first draft of your
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` supplemental declaration?
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` A All of the words? You're asking me to
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` remember. Most likely I would say so.
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` Q Your supplemental declaration was from
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` earlier this month, right?
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` A Correct.
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` Q Okay. Using your best recollection of
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` events from earlier this month, is it your best
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` recollection that you wrote all the words in the
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` first draft of your supplemental declaration?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection. Asked
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` and answered.
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` THE WITNESS: Again, I would say
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` yes, but then I realize it's not been a long
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` time since then, but I would like you to
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` acknowledge that I -- besides this
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` engagement, I, this semester I teach 200
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` students, so that's a significant -- so I see
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` a lot of papers, a lot of papers.
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` Now, this is significant to me as
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` well, and based on my, based on my best
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` recollection, I wrote the original document.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q This semester; when did it start?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection.
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` Relevance. Outside the scope.
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` THE WITNESS: Can I still answer?
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q Yes.
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` A All right. This is our second week of
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` our fall semester at WVU, but I also taught summer
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` semester which ended a week before this fall
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` semester started. So this fall semester I teach
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` over 200 students, and summer semester, 85.
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` Q So when you were -- when you said "this
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` semester," you were talking about a semester that
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` started after you submitted your supplemental
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` declaration marked as Exhibit 2, right?
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` A I think it's confusion about dates.
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` Q I'm sorry. I'm going to need to
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` understand what you're testifying to. When you
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` referred to the semester, this semester when you
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` are teaching 200 students, you are referring to a
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` semester that started after your supplemental
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` declaration was signed and finalized, correct?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection.
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` Relevance. Outside the scope.
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` THE WITNESS: There's no mistake
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` with dates, but when I say "semester," you
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` have to realize that there's a preparation
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` time, significant preparation time prior to
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` semester start.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q I'm going to need to ask you to please
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` answer my question rather than a different
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` question.
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` I asked you: When you referred to "this
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` semester," you're referring to a semester that
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` began after your supplemental declaration was
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` finalized and signed; is that correct?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: No, I did not.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q Okay. So you're referring to a
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` different semester?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: Not really. You
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` know, that date is kind of fluid, because we
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` do have to get ready when a new semester
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` starts, especially with such a high
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` enrollment. So when I was referring to this
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` semester, this is really when WVU starts
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` officially. That's west Virginia University.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q Did the lawyers suggest edits to your
`
` supplemental declaration? Again, I'm not asking
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` you to tell me about the content of any of those
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` edits.
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: I object, and I'm
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` instructing the witness not to answer about
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` what your lawyers may have suggested to you.
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` He's already said the lawyers were
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` involved in creating the document, and asking
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` him about suggestions or further inferences
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` is getting into privilege, and I'm going to
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` instruct him not to answer.
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` MR. DE VRIES: I disagree for the
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` record. That violates the agreement reached
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` on the record at the Storro deposition, pages
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` 65 to 71 with your counsel, Mr. Graves. It
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` also is inconsistent with your allowing the
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` witness to answer the same question about
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` Exhibit 1. I don't mean to argue with you on
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` the record. I just wanted to put our
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` statement on the record.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q Are you following your counsel's
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` instruction to refuse to answer my question?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Excuse me, but I
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` need to just respond briefly to what you
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` said. I understand the agreement between
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` counsel, and I understand that it's
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` permissible for you to inquire into mechanics
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` and timing and so forth of, to the extent, to
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` some extent of when drafts were created. I
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` don't think that's what your question was.
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` So if you want to rephrase your
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` question, I do think that it is permissible
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` for you to some extent ask about the creation
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` of drafts per the parties' agreement.
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` MR. DE VRIES: I disagree that the
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` question is improper, so my question stands.
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` Are you instructing him not to answer?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Could the court
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` reporter please read the question back.
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` (Whereupon, reporter reads
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` requested material. "Question:
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` Did the lawyers suggest edits to
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` your supplemental declaration?
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` Again, I'm not asking you to tell
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` me about the content of any of
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` those edits.")
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: I don't think it's
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` proper for you to be asking him about what
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` his lawyers suggested. What was, what was
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` ultimately done in the draft and the fact
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` that the lawyers were involved, I think
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` that's, that's consistent with the parties'
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` agreement to inquire about the mechanics of
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` the drafting.
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` MR. DE VRIES: Ms. Cunningham, I'm
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` not going to spend today debating legal
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` objections on the record. It is inconsistent
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` with the trial rules governing this
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` proceeding. I just want to ask my questions.
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` If you're going to instruct him not to
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` answer, you can do so, but I'm going to ask
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` my questions. I don't want to spend a lot of
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` time debating. We've both provided our
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` positions about that. I'm hearing your
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` position. Either you're instructing him to
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` answer or not. I think that you are. Is
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` that right?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Dr. Jaczynski, you
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` can answer that question with a yes or a no,
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` without getting into the substance -- explain
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` to your recollection without getting into the
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` substance of what you discussed with your
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` counsel.
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` THE WITNESS: Would you please read
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` the question one more time.
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` (Whereupon, reporter reads
`
` requested material. "Question:
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` Did the lawyers suggest edits to
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` your supplemental declaration?
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` Again, I'm not asking you to tell
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` me about the content of any of
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` those edits.")
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` THE WITNESS: I'm confused about
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` the word "suggest," and again, I'm getting
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` confused about what I can and cannot say,
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` because that's legal terms, but in general
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` terms, in general terms, suggested edits.
`
` There were some edits made, but suggested
`
` edits? I don't think they have.
`
` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q There were edits made by the lawyers is
`
` what you mean?
`
` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Same caution to
`
` the witness.
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` THE WITNESS: Legal standards, you
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` know, that's when I sometimes get confused,
`
` because that's not really my area of
`
` expertise, but . . .
`
` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q Your counsel's suggested that you answer
`
` my question with a yes or a no, and I'm fine with
`
` that. I'm not wanting to get into the content.
`
` When you said that there were edits, do
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` you mean edits made by the lawyers?
`
` A Correct. Yes.
`
` Q Ultimately did you review and approve
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` all of the statements that are contained in your
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` supplemental declaration that's marked as Exhibit
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` 2?
`
` A Yes, I did.
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` Q And do you believe confidently that all
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` the statements contained in your declarations
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` marked as Exhibit 1 and Exhibit 2 are true?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q Okay.
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` Let's take a look at Exhibit 1, and
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` please look at page 30, paragraph 57.
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` A Did you say Exhibit 1?
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` Q Yes, sir.
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` A Page 31?
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` Q I'm sorry. Page 30, paragraph 57, and
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` I'm just going to ask you about the last sentence
`
` in that paragraph generally, and please let me
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` know when you're ready.
`
` A I'm ready.
`
` Q Okay.
`
` The last sentence in your declaration,
`
` paragraph 57, states, "In my opinion, Dr. Brenna's
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` disavowal of his declaration testimony coupled
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` with resistance to this plausible interpretation
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` undermine the credibility of his opinion regarding
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` the heating step."
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` Is it your opinion that Dr. Brenna's
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` deposition testimony undermined the credibility of
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` his opinion?
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` A As it is written here, with the whole
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` context of 57, yes, it is.
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` Q Okay, and just from a general
`
` perspective, I'm not asking you to tell me every
`
` reason, why did you think that Dr. Brenna's
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` deposition testimony undermined his credibility?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I think if you read
`
` the previous sentences, that's what I mean by
`
` context, then it becomes clear that there's
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` some issues here.
`
` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q You thought his deposition testimony was
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` inconsistent with his declaration?
`
` A That is my understanding of it.
`
` Q Okay, and in your expert opinion, that
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` makes him not credible?
`
` A Yes, it does.
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` Q Okay. Do you have an expertise in
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` credibility?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` Vague.
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` THE WITNESS: No, I do not.
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` BY MR. DE VRIES:
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` Q Okay, but you have an understanding of
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` what it means to be credible or not?
`
` A Yes, in my, in my terms, yes, yes, I do.
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` Q And what is your term? In your term,
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` what does it mean to be credible?
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` A Just in general terms, what credibility
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` means, so . . .
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` Q And what are those general terms in your
`
` terms?
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` MS. CUNNINGHAM: Objection to form.
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` THE WITNESS: If you're credible,
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` then, you know, you stay within, stay within
`
` what you know, you keep consistent within
`
` reasonable framework, and understand, you
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` know, sometimes it may change over time, but
`
` that's my general understanding of
`
` credibility.
`
` BY MR. DE VRIES:
`
` Q One component of credibility is that you
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` stay with what you know; is that fair?
`
` A Probably, yes.
`
` Q And another component of credibility is
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` that you re
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