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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`CENTRAL DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
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` CASE NO: 2:13-CV-05980
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`BLACK HILLS MEDIA, LLC,
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` CIVIL
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`Plaintiff,
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`vs.
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`) Los Angeles, California
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`PIONEER CORPORATION, ET AL, )
`Tuesday, November 12, 2013
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` (8:43 a.m. to 11:10 a.m.)
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`Defendants.
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`BLACK HILLS MEDIA, LLC,
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`Plaintiff,
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`vs.
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` CASE NO: 2:13-CV-06054
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`YAMAHA CORPORATION
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`OF AMERICA,
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`Defendant.
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`BLACK HILLS MEDIA, LLC,
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`Plaintiff,
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` CASE NO: 2:13-CV-06055
`vs.
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`LOGITECH, INC, ET AL,
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`Defendants.
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`BLACK HILLS MEDIA, LLC,
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`Plaintiff,
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`vs.
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` CASE NO: 2:13-CV-06062
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`SONOS, INC,
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`Defendant.
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`SCHEDULING CONFERENCE
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`BEFORE THE HONORABLE S. JAMES OTERO,
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
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`See Page 2
`Appearances:
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`Margarita Ramirez
`Court Recorder:
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`Exceptional Reporting Services, Inc.
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`Transcribed by:
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`Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording;
`transcript produced by transcription service.
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`EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC
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`2
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`APPEARANCES FOR:
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`Plaintiff:
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`JONATHAN R. DEBLOIS, ESQ.
`Hayes Messina Gilman & Hayes
`300 Brickstone Square, 9th Floor
`Andover, MA 01810
`ROBERT R. GILMAN, ESQ.
`Hayes Messina Gilman & Hayes
`200 State Street, 6th Floor
`Boston, MA 02109
`MATTHEW C. LAPPLE, ESQ.
`Lapple IP Law, PC
`18101 Von Karman Avenue, 3rd Floor
`Irvine, CA 92612
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`VINCENT J. BELUSKO, ESQ.
`MARTIN M. NOONEN, ESQ.
`ALEX S. YAP, ESQ.
`Morrison & Foerster
`707 Wilshire Blvd., Suite 6000
`Los Angeles, CA 90017
`DAVID L. FEHRMAN, ESQ.
`Morrison & Foerster
`Shin-Marunouchi Building
`5-1 Marunouchi 1-Chome 29th Floor
`Chiyoda-ku Tokyo 100-6529
`Japan
`ROBERT S. HILL, ESQ.
`HAROLD A. BARZA, ESQ.
`Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan
`865 S. Figueroa St., 10th Floor
`Los Angeles, CA 90012
`DONALD L. RIDGE, ESQ.
`Morris Polich & Purdy
`1055 West Seventh Street, Suite 2400
`Los Angeles, CA 90017
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`EXCEPTIONAL REPORTING SERVICES, INC
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`APPEARANCES FOR:
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`3
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`(CONTINUED)
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`GEORGE I. LEE, ESQ.
`CHRISTOPHER D. BUTTS, ESQ.
`McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff
`300 S. Wacker Dr., 31st Floor
`Chicago, IL 60606
`Victor Paul Cruz
`Maria Elena Stiteler
`Scott Dubois
`Michael Martinez
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`Los Angeles, California; Tuesday, November 12, 2013; 8:43 a.m.
`(Call to Order)
`THE CLERK: Okay. All rise and come to order. This
`United States District Court, Central District of California,
`is now in session, the Honorable S. James Otero presiding.
`Okay. Calling cases -- Item Number 1, CV13-5980,
`United -- excuse me -- SJO, Black Hills Media versus Pioneer
`Corporation, et al., Case Number 2:CV13-6054-SJO; Black Hills
`Media versus Yamaha Corporation of America, Case Number 3:CV13-
`6055-SJO; Black Hills Media versus Logitech, Inc. -- but that
`case is now settled -- calling Number 4, CV13-6062-SJO, Black
`Hills Media, LLC versus Sonos, Inc. Counsel, would you please
`go to the lectern and state your appearances or you can see --
`THE COURT: Would -- it would be helpful to have
`their cards. Do you have their cards?
`THE CLERK: I don’t, Judge, but I’ll get some.
`THE COURT: Let’s start with appearances for
`Plaintiff.
`MR. DEBLOIS: Jonathan Deblois for Black Hills, your
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`Honor.
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`MR. GILMAN: Good morning, your Honor. Robert Gilman
`for Black Hills.
`MR. LAPPLE: Matt Lapple for Black Hills, your Honor.
`MR. BELUSKO: Good morning, your Honor. Vincent
`Belusko for Yamaha Corporation of America, and with me is David
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`Fehrman, Martin Noonen, and Alex Yap. I understand your
`preference today. Mr. Fehrman will talk tutorial and
`Mr. Noonen will deal with scheduling issues.
`THE COURT: Thank you.
`MR. BELUSKO: Thank you.
`MR. BARZA: Good morning, your Honor. Harold Barza
`of Quinn Emanuel representing Pioneer. I have with me my
`colleague, Robert Hill, and he will be addressing the issues
`that Pioneer will address for you today.
`THE COURT: Thank you.
`MR. RIDGE: Good morning, your Honor. Donald Ridge,
`George Lee, and Christopher Butts for Sonos, Inc.
`THE COURT: Good morning.
`MR. RIDGE: Good morning.
`THE COURT: Okay. Is that all -- do we have all
`appearances? Okay. Please have -- feel free to take a seat
`and get comfortable. The matter is here for a scheduling
`conference. On September 24th, the Court issued an order
`coordinating cases denying Plaintiff’s motion for leave to file
`a proposed second amended complaint but allowing the Plaintiff
`to file a revised second amended complaint, which has been
`accomplished. And then the Court set the matter today for
`discussion of scheduling issues, discussion regarding overview
`of the case, and then a tutorial. So let’s start with the
`tutorial. And how do you intend to present this? What’s the
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`MR. BELUSKO: Your Honor, for the Defendant groups,
`we’re going to have Mr. Fehrman begin and cover a lot of the
`common patents, and then Sonos’s counsel has their own portion
`to do because they have five patents that are not common.
`THE COURT: Yes. And with Plaintiff?
`MR. GILMAN: Good morning, your Honor. Mr. Deblois
`is going to present for the Plaintiff. We have a presentation
`to address all patents at once, and I do have a handout. If
`it’s okay with your Honor, I’ll -- let me give it to you --
`THE COURT: Okay.
`MR. GILMAN: -- and to the clerks and opposing
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`counsel.
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`THE COURT: Let’s start with -- why don’t you
`distribute the handouts. Are there any other handouts that the
`Defendants have? Why don’t we exchange them? Okay. I have
`two handouts. The first is a handout by the Plaintiff; is that
`correct? Which one is the Plaintiff’s?
`MR. GILMAN: This one’s the Plaintiff’s.
`THE COURT: The smaller one. Okay. And we have to
`move rather quickly today. I think I’ve allocated an hour and
`a half to cover all of the issues. I have certain issues and
`certain questions regarding case management that we’ll discuss
`at the conclusion, but let’s start with the Plaintiff’s
`presentation. And how long will it take for you to present?
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`MR. DEBLOIS: Approximately 15 minutes.
`THE COURT: Okay. I’ll follow along with the
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`handout.
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`MR. DEBLOIS: Okay. That will be great. Okay. Your
`Honor, once again, Jonathan Deblois for Black Hills here to do
`the technology tutorial and brief case overview. Just wanted
`to start off with a little bit of introduction to Black Hills
`Media. Black Hills is a subsidiary of Concert Technology.
`Concert Technology was started in 2006 by Hugh Svendsen and
`Gene Farrelly. The goal of Black Hills is to focus on
`intellectual property directed at networked media devices. We
`currently have some cases involving the patents-in-suit pending
`in ITC, as well as other district courts. And Black Hills has
`licensed patents to four large consumer electronics companies.
`THE COURT: Okay. The other district courts are --
`we have Delaware and we have the Eastern District of Texas.
`MR. DEBLOIS: I believe that’s correct, your Honor.
`THE COURT: Any other districts?
`MR. DEBLOIS: Other than the ITC, not that I’m aware
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`of.
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`THE COURT: And then in terms of how you acquired the
`rights to the patent, is that going to be -- is that additional
`information -- how Black Hills acquired the rights to the
`patents at issue, is that going to be detailed in a pleading to
`follow?
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`MR. DEBLOIS: If that’s what your Honor wishes, we
`can certainly do that. We have, at the end of this
`presentation, a brief bio for many of the inventors, listing
`some of their accomplishments and what patents they’re
`associated with. But if you’d like some further information on
`that, we can absolutely get that to you.
`THE COURT: I’d like the detailing on the chain of
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`title.
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`MR. DEBLOIS: Okay.
`THE COURT: Thank you.
`MR. DEBLOIS: So, as you know, there’s 12 patents-in-
`suit at issue here. And if you look in the bottom left-hand
`corner of the first slide -- I find it’s easiest to break the
`12 patents into three groups for explanation, and there’s four
`-- obviously four patents in each group. All of the patents
`relate to networked home audio, and also covers other media
`items, not just audio. But for the purpose of this tutorial,
`we’ve limited it to audio. I’ll go through these groups in
`more detail, but I just wanted to give you a brief sentence --
`description about what each does so it’s a little bit easier to
`move forward.
`The network remotes group involves technology that
`allows you to control a media device from your smartphone. As
`you might imagine, the content category describes technology
`that allows you -- or describes how you get the content, where
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`you get it from, and what type of content you’re getting.
`THE COURT: And that group was identified as the
`smart content group in the 26(f) report?
`MR. DEBLOIS: It was, yes, your Honor. And then the
`third category is the multi-zone audio, which allows you to
`play that content on multiple devices at the same time.
`This next slide, your Honor, is -- gives a little
`more context to how these three groups work together to form
`one system. So as you can see in the left-hand side, the
`smartphone can control the media player. You’re pulling
`content from a plurality of sources here, numerous different
`sources, and then that audio is being played on multiple
`devices throughout your home.
`This is a breakdown of which patents are in which
`groups. So for the network remotes group, that contains the
`Weel patents, which are the 099 patent, the 323 patent, the 873
`patent, and the 356 patent.
`The content group contains the Williams, De Bonet,
`and Qureshey patents, and those are the 686, the 694, the 952,
`and the 652 patents.
`And, finally, the multi-zone audio group contains the
`Chang patents, the Wheeler patents, and the Goldberg patents,
`which are the 739, the 517, the 283, and the 740 patent.
`This next slide, your Honor, is for your reference.
`I won’t go through the entire thing, but what it does is
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`provides the asserted claims and the asserted patents against
`each Defendant to just give you a little bit of a breakdown of
`what we have so far.
`And here, your Honor, I just wanted to give you a
`brief case overview involving, you know, who the Defendants are
`and what the accused type of products are. For Yamaha, the
`accused type of products are AV receivers, networked Blu-ray
`players and other networked home theater systems.
`For Pioneer, the accused product types are the same,
`generally networked home stereo components.
`And then for Sonos, other networked audio devices,
`such as the networked speakers you see in the bottom right-hand
`corner of the screen.
`And here, this is a blank slide. It’s blank because
`I find it’s easiest to understand and to teach the technology
`here by keeping a hypothetical story in mind. So I’d like you
`to picture a man coming home from work or coming home from
`being out with his wife -- we can call him Jim. Jim comes
`home, he walks into his living room, and he wants to play a
`little music and he wants to read the paper in the living room.
`His wife thinks that’s a great idea, but she wants to go in the
`dining room and play around with her tablet. So Jim takes out
`his smartphone, a few swipes and clicks and he’s got his
`selection of songs playing in the living room and playing in
`the dining room at the same time.
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`So with that, your Honor, I think we can move into a
`little bit more detailed description of each one of these
`groups.
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`The network remotes group, as I just mentioned, deals
`with controlling your media player from your smartphone. And
`here we have a more detailed description of exactly how this
`works. So Jim, sitting in his living room, and he pulls out
`his smartphone, and he’s presented with a list of his media
`players, whether it’s, you know, receiver, the Sonos speaker
`system, and he chooses which device he wants his content to
`play on, he wants to hear the songs from. So he’s in the
`living room, he clicks on the living room device. He then
`needs to choose his content. So in this case, we have a remote
`content source, which is Pandora Internet Radio. If you’re not
`familiar with what Pandora Internet Radio is, it’s just a --
`THE COURT: I’m familiar.
`MR. DEBLOIS: Okay. So Jim clicks on a playlist.
`The playlist, sent from the remote source, it’s displayed to
`Jim. And what the playlist is, is it’s an identifier of other
`songs in that -- either that genre or by that artist. Jim
`decides what songs he wants to play and that media is sent
`directly to the media player in his living room and begins
`playing. So that is how Jim is able to sit on his couch and
`without getting up and fussing with his audio system, he can
`play his selected songs from the smartphone.
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`So now that we know how we can control the media
`player from his smartphone, we need to get into what type of
`content, and where the content is coming from, and how he’s
`actually getting that content. And that’s obviously the
`content group. And while we use Pandora here as an example,
`there’s a plurality of sources that the content can come from,
`so it’s not limited to Pandora. However, it is easier to
`understand with just sticking with that example. Often, your
`Honor, in the field, this -- the content group would be
`referred to as personalized content, or customized content,
`because in many cases, the songs that are being served to the
`user or -- are personalized to their listening habits through
`data or user interaction.
`So this is a detailed representation of the content
`group. So we have the same smartphone, and on it were
`displayed a number of sources that this content can from,
`anything from CD, from a tuner, a traditional radio input, or
`an iPod. Also, we are presented with a traditional internet
`radio source, which would be very similar to listening to your
`favorite station in your car. The same broadcast is going to
`be listened to by every user that’s listening to it. And a
`Pandora-style playlist radio station where you’re served with a
`playlist that contains various songs. So Jim decides that he
`wants to listen to the playlist, now he wants to listen to
`Pandora’s content. He chooses Pandora and, just like before,
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`he’s displayed a list of playlists. He chooses his playlist
`and the Pandora system, which also here labeled the central
`system, is searched based upon that criteria, and media net
`criteria -- the song’s media net criteria are served to Jim.
`Jim chooses the songs and they’re sent to the media player to
`be played. As I said, this is not limited to Pandora, so he
`could have chosen a CD, and the process is generally the same.
`So now we have the ability to control the media
`player from your smartphone, you have the ability to choose
`customized content from numerous places on the smartphone. So
`now we need to understand how it’s played on numerous devices
`throughout the home. And that, your Honor, is the multi-zone
`audio group. So here we see how this actually works. You
`notice the small square that has been featured in the bottom
`right-hand corner of many of these slides is now the entire
`system. So before we’re dealing with parts, and now we’re
`dealing with it integrated into an entire system. So we have
`the smartphones still. We’re displayed the devices -- the
`choices, any one of the devices in the home. In this case, Jim
`wants the living room and Jim wants the dining room. Jim
`chooses both of those devices, and as soon as he does that, the
`devices are talking to each other. They talk to each other,
`they talk to the smartphone; and through the internet they have
`access to the remote content. As soon as they’re talking to
`each other, they set up a wireless network, their own wireless
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`network, and that’s how the songs are transmitted and how
`they’re able to play on the dining room player, as well as the
`living room player simultaneously. So now that the devices are
`linked and the wireless network has been established, the
`process is the same regarding obtaining content. Jim chooses
`the playlist, Jim chooses the songs, they’re sent to the media
`player, the media players broadcast to each other, and at the
`same time you’re hearing the same audio in the dining room and
`the living room. And it’s not just limited to the same song
`either, your Honor. Say Jim’s wife in the dining room decides
`she doesn’t want to listen to the same music anymore. She can
`pull out her smartphone, choose the kitchen device, the same
`process; and all the while Jim is continuously listening to the
`music in the living room, his wife’s now listening to different
`content in the dining room.
`The remainder of the slides, your Honor, as I had
`mentioned earlier are the inventors and some bios on a number
`of the inventors. I won’t go through that now but they’re for
`your reference at a later time. And that concludes the -- this
`presentation. I’d be happy to answer any questions you may
`have.
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`THE COURT: Thank you. Defense?
`MR. FEHRMAN: Good morning, your Honor.
`THE COURT: Good morning.
`MR. FEHRMAN: I’m David Fehrman for Yamaha
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`Corporation of America, and I’ll be addressing the patents that
`are commonly asserted against all of the Defendants, and
`Mr. Lee will address the patents asserted only against Sonos.
`THE COURT: Thank you.
`MR. FEHRMAN: So we’re trying to -- we’re breaking
`this down a little bit differently – but we have a total of 12
`patents that have been asserted, six common patents asserted
`against all Defendants, four family groups, five additional
`patents asserted against Sonos, three family groups, and one
`additional patent asserted against all of the Defendants except
`Sonos. And we’ve tried to break this down into some groups
`just to get some organization to it, seven total families, the
`commonly asserted patents include four families, and then we
`have four more asserted only against Sonos. We have Logitech
`in here because that was prepared earlier, and they settled
`recently.
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`So we want to give a couple of background concepts
`that we think are important here just in terms of technology,
`and it’s basically listening to songs. And we start going way
`back, listening to an album which is a fixed group of songs.
`And we go -- as it moves on, you can see this record has a
`number of songs, you play them from beginning to end. It’s a
`fixed album. Same thing with a cassette player, generally you
`play from beginning to end. CDs came around, and they again
`were generally a fixed album, but you could have an additional
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`feature of some random access capability. Now something that’s
`quite relevant here but goes back a long time is a jukebox.
`And a jukebox is something that actually the playing is set up
`kind of on the fly, so the unit has a record player. But at --
`say if you’re at a restaurant, at the table you often have a
`selector, and you can select songs in order. And as you select
`those, a playlist is built up, and that would then play the
`songs in that order.
`And interestingly then, in the 1990s, when computer
`music came about, they started kind of moving this jukebox
`concept over to computer music, where you would store music in
`your computer on your hard drive. And we have examples of two
`software products that were jukeboxes for computers, and
`they’re both actually referred to as “jukeboxes,” the Music
`Match Jukebox Deluxe (phonetic) and The Real Jukebox
`(phonetic). And those were enabling users to store their songs
`and create playlists, so create a selective ordering of songs.
`And this is just a screenshot from the real jukebox, and it has
`a section here for playlists and creating new playlists. And
`then interestingly it moved over from just your desktop
`computer to portable devices. We have an example here, which
`is right around 1999, 2000, of a creative music player, and we
`have the little pull-outs. It was actually referred to as a
`jukebox again, and it has playlists and artists and styles for
`selecting the music that you want to listen to. This music
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`would have been downloaded from the computer -- or uploaded --
`transferred from the computer where the music was stored
`initially and obtained generally from the internet, and then
`stored on this product for portable listening.
`So in terms of playlists, which is very fundamental
`to what we’re dealing with many of the patents, it’s a list of
`songs for selective playback, and it’s created by organizing
`and storing the list of songs. And that playlist can be re-
`accessed and distributed at a later point in time, and we just
`have an example of a playlist down there in the bottom. One
`thing is quite different is this is different from a radio
`playlist where you can just like see in the newspaper or get
`online and see what a radio is broadcasting. That’s still a
`fixed list. So there are kind of two different kinds of
`playlists. In the context of these patents, playlists is this
`organizable and selectable list. It’s not a fixed list.
`Another very important concept that we think applies
`to many of the patents is the issue of downloading versus
`streaming media. And downloading is where a song is actually
`copied from a remote source and it’s stored in your device, in
`your main memory of your hard drive, for example, of your
`computer, and then the song is accessed by playing it from that
`memory. You don’t need to get the song again if you want to
`listen to it again. It’s there for you to instantly access it.
`And basically that downloading function is the same as
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`traditional file transfer for computers of other types of
`files; it’s not restricted to songs.
`In contrast, streaming is kind of a different
`operation. Streaming is very popular now. Both downloading
`and streaming are popular, but kind of different operations.
`In streaming, the song is not stored on the device. Instead,
`the device accesses a song that’s stored at a remote source and
`plays it in real time. It’s streaming through. That’s why
`it’s referred to as streaming. Each time the song is played,
`you have to access it again from that source. It’s not -- a
`permanent copy is not stored on your device. And many of these
`asserted functionalities relate to streaming as opposed to
`downloading.
`So we move quickly to the Qureshey patents, that’s
`the first group that we have, the 952 and 652. We’ve just set
`forth the coversheets of these patents for reference. And
`they’re very similar. Their titles are similar, they both
`relate to playlists, so then they both have claims that all
`include limitations regarding playlists. And the patents --
`these two patents have the same specification.
`So for a general operational view, Figure 15 is
`really the best because it’s illustrating the transfer of songs
`and the assigning of a playlist from one device to another. So
`a person may have what they call a personal network with a
`number of devices throughout the home, or even east coast and
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`west coast, and they want to -- they have songs and playlists
`on one device they want to move it over and transfer it to
`another so that they can then listen to songs on another
`device. And we’ve copied just an intro statement of what
`Figure 15 is about, and it’s the configuration for assigning
`playlists on audio sources from -- to a device, such as 1510 on
`the left, or a PC in the middle, from another device, 1520, and
`they’re all connected to the same network. And the assigning
`of the playlist is an important feature here, and that’s
`discussed in detail with respect to Figure 19. And we’ve
`highlighted kind of the keys in terms of the assigning
`operation. So step 1906 here, you actually assign a device and
`you choose the target device you want to transfer a playlist
`to. So you assign that playlist.
`You then check that device. It may already have a
`number of the songs that are on the playlist. And it checks to
`see what’s on that hard drive, what’s missing. And after it
`determines what’s missing, ultimately that device is going to
`download the missing songs by reference to URLs, information
`that kind of identify the location of those songs, it will
`download so it will then store all of the songs corresponding
`to the playlist on its hard drive so that the user can then
`access the songs immediately at that device.
`We have a very brief animation here to show this
`operation. So the network here has a personal server, which is
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`the server site at the top, and everything is channeled through
`that server. So the first thing that happens is a playlist is
`assigned from one device to another. So this is the list.
`This is just the song list, not the songs themselves. Once
`it’s been assigned, then it’s checking to see what’s missing.
`And if songs are missing then, it needs to download those songs
`from either URLs or the various other devices on the network so
`that ultimately all of the songs that were missing from that
`assigned playlist will be stored on the target device and they
`are there and able to be listened to. So that relates to
`transferring a playlist and then downloading the songs.
`I’ve put the claims here. I don’t intend to go into
`any claims, but if you have any questions, I’m happy to discuss
`specifics of any of the claims. But we believe that these
`claims are related to assigning and downloading.
`The 652 patent adds features on internet radio, but
`the claims also include the assigning and downloading
`recitations.
`Some of the issues that we’ve identified just as a,
`you know, very high level outline, we believe that the claims
`are all invalid. I believe you’re aware we’ve filed petitions
`for inter partes review on this patent. That was filed on
`September 18th. The 952 was challenged on 11 grounds based
`upon five references; the 652, seven grounds on five
`references.
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`And just in terms of timing, these inter partes
`review are much faster than previous re-examinations. It’s
`basically an 18-month pendency from the initial filing. The
`latest date here, assuming that the petitions are granted,
`which is a six-month period basically for that decision, so
`then one year after that the reviews would be completed, at the
`latest by March 26, 2015. And the parties are proposing a
`trial date here after that date. Now, assuming again that
`these petitions are granted, the Defendants do plan to move for
`a stay of the proceedings.
`Some issues -- again, from a high level of -- with
`respect to non-infringement, many of these asserted claims and
`these patents and others are method claims. There’s no
`possibility of direct infringement. They’re directed to use of
`the product by the end user, so there’s only a potential issue
`of inducement with respect to these claims.
`In terms of the substantive requirements of the
`claims, there’s no assignment of playlists in any of the
`Defendants’ accused devices. They don’t have playlists
`assigned to them.
`And, again, another fundamental thing, there’s no
`downloading here. These are all streaming-type devices, and
`all of the products and services that the Plaintiff mentioned
`in their opening are all streaming services, not downloading.
`And these devices that are accused don’t have memory for
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`storing and downloading songs. And there’s no distribution of
`playlists. Again, it’s related to streaming services, such as
`Pandora Internet Radio. And that’s a -- you select the type of
`radio, but it still just stream songs just like a radio
`station. It’s -- the name of it is Pandora Internet Radio.
`Now I move to the second group, which is the Weel
`family. Again, just the coversheets of the patents and the
`titles and -- basically these are talking about sharing
`playlists and controlling playlists. As a general summary,
`they’re related to playing content on one device by selecting a
`song from a playlist displayed on a second device. Such as a
`remote control plays -- displays a playlist, you can use that
`to select songs. The drawings here are very basic, but just as
`an example, they have Figure 2, the remote control at the
`bottom, and a dedicated media player that’s used to play the
`songs. Just in terms of background, here’s just one example of
`a patent that has a remote control, the remote device, 22, up
`in the corner, and a PC in the middle for playing songs. The
`remote shown in Figure 2 off to the right -- and just one
`sentence -- or one excerpt from the specification, it says,
`“The playlist is transferred to the remote. The user selects
`and plays a clip using the remote, and then the remote sends
`these commands to the PC software which plays the clip.” So
`it’s a pretty -- in just a very short and simple thing, it
`shows the concept of playing songs by reference to a playlist
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`from a remote is quite an old concept. Again, just listing a
`patent claim, an exemplary claim, this is a method.
`So that was one example of a prior art. There are
`many others, and our IPRs are based upon that prior art th
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