In re: UNITED STATES PATENT
`AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`YAMAHA CORPORATION OF AMERICA
`v.
`BLACK HILLS MEDIA, LLC
` ___________________________________________________
`
`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D.
`May 29, 2014
`
` ___________________________________________________
`
`
`AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`YAMAHA CORPORATION OF AMERICA
`v.
`BLACK HILLS MEDIA, LLC
` ___________________________________________________
`
`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D.
`May 29, 2014
`
` ___________________________________________________
`
`
`
`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
`
`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` -------------------------------------------
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
` -------------------------------------------
`
` YAMAHA CORPORATION OF AMERICA
` Petitioner
` v.
` BLACK HILLS MEDIA LLC
` Patent Owner
`
` --------------------
` Case IPR2013-00597, Patent 8,230,099 B2
` Case IPR2013-00598, Patent 8,214,873 B2.
` --------------------
`
` VIDEO DEPOSITION OF V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., Ph.D.
` Thursday, May 29, 2014 - 9:57 a.m.
` Pepper Hamilton LLP
` 125 High Street
` Boston, Massachusetts
`
` - - - Reporter: Jill K. Ruggieri, RPR/RMR/CRR - - -
`
`Job No.: 0124-249160
`
`800-292-4789
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`MERRILL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
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`
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S:
`
` Morrison Foerster
` Alex S. Yap, Esq.
` David L. Fehrman, Esq.
` 707 Wilshire Boulevard
` Los Angeles, California 90017-3543
` (213) 892-5200
` ayap@mofo.com
` dfehrman@mofo.com
` Counsel for Yamaha Corporation of America
`
` Pepper Hamilton LLP
` Lana A. Gladstein, Esq.
` Reza Mollaaghababa, Esq.
` Thomas J. Engellenner, Esq.
` High Street Tower
` 125 High Street, 19th Floor
` Boston, Massachusetts 02110-2736
` (617) 204-5100
` gladsteinl@pepperlaw.com
` mollaaghababar@pepperlaw.com
` engellennert@pepperlaw.com
` Counsel for Black Hills Media LLC
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 3
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` Also present: Dr. Gareth Loy
`
` Videographer: Gayle Ashton, Merrill Legal Solutions
`
` I N D E X
`
` WITNESS:
`
` V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., Ph.D.
` Examination by Ms. Gladstein 8
` Examination by Mr. Fehrman 278
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` Exhibit 1 Notice of Deposition of V. Michael 7
` Bove in IPR2013-00598
` Exhibit 2 Notice of Deposition of Michael 7
` Bove, Jr., in case IPR2013-00597
` Exhibit 3 Declaration of Michael Bove, Jr., 8
` for Patent No. 8,214,873
` Exhibit 4 Declaration of Michael V. Bove for 9
` Patent No. 8,230,099
` Exhibit 5 US Patent No. 8,214,873 109
` Exhibit 6 US Patent No. 8,230,099 109
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 4
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` Exhibit 8 US Patent No. 6,622,018 173
` Exhibit 11 Windows Media Player literature 218
` Exhibit 9 US Patent No. 6,502,194 B1 233
` Exhibit 12 US Patent Application Publication 272
` No. 2003/0045955 A1
` Exhibit 13 Decision of Inter Partes Review 279
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` Exhibit 7 US Patent Application Publication 167
` No. 2002/0087996 A1
` Exhibit 10 US Patent No. 6,622,018 B1 218
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`800-292-4789
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the
` video operator speaking, Gayle Ashton, with
` Merrill Legal Solutions.
` Today's date is May 29, 2014,
` and the time is 9:57 a.m. We are here at the
` offices of Pepper Hamilton, located at 125
` High Street, Boston, Massachusetts to take
` the videotaped deposition of V. Michael Bove,
` Jr.
` This is a proceeding in the
` United States Patent and Trademark Office,
` before the Patent Trial and Appeal Board,
` Yamaha Corporation of America, Petitioner,
` versus Black Hills Media, LLC, Patent Owner,
` Case IPR2013-00597, Patent 8,230,099 B2; and
` Case IPR2013-00598, Patent 8,214,873 B2.
` Will counsel please state
` their appearances.
` MS. GLADSTEIN: Lana Gladstein
` of Pepper Hamilton on behalf of patentee,
` Black Hills Media.
` MR. MOLLAAGHABABA: Reza
` Mollaaghababa of Pepper Hamilton on behalf of
` patentee, Black Hills Media.
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`800-292-4789
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`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 6
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` MR. ENGELLENNER: Tom
` Engellenner, also Pepper Hamilton, on behalf
` of Black Hills Media.
` MS. GLADSTEIN: We have also
` Dr. Gareth Loy with us on behalf of Black
` Hills Media.
` MR. YAP: Alex Yap of Morrison
` & Foerster for petitioner, Yamaha Corporation
` of America.
` MR. FEHRMAN: David Fehrman,
` Morrison & Foerster, for petitioner Yamaha
` Corporation of America.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the
` court reporter please swear in the witness.
`
` VICTOR MICHAEL BOVE, JR.,
` Ph.D., a witness having been duly sworn, on
` oath deposes and says as follows:
`
` MS. GLADSTEIN: Shall we just
` put on the record the discussion that we had
` prior to the deposition about the
` applicability of this deposition to both
` proceedings, that's IPR598 and IPR597?
` MR. YAP: Sure.
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`800-292-4789
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 7
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` MS. GLADSTEIN: All right.
` And we will use exhibits
` consecutively, and to the extent that they're
` applicable to either proceeding, they will so
` apply.
` MR. YAP: Sure.
` MS. GLADSTEIN: All right.
` (Exhibit 1 marked for
` identification.)
` EXAMINATION
` BY MS. GLADSTEIN:
` Q Dr. Bove, I am handing you what has
` been marked as Bove Exhibit 1.
` It's a document titled Notice
` of Deposition of V. Michael Bove in
` IPR2013-00598.
` Have you seen this document
` before?
` A I believe I was emailed a copy of
` this document by Yamaha's counsel.
` Q Thank you.
` (Exhibit 2 marked for
` identification.)
` THE DEPONENT: Thank you.
` BY MS. GLADSTEIN:
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`800-292-4789
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`MERRILL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 8
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` Q Dr. Bove, I'm handing you what's
` been marked as Exhibit 2. It's a document
` titled Notice of Deposition of you, Michael
` Bove, Jr. in case IPR2013-00597.
` Have you seen this document
` before?
` A I have.
` Q And could you state your full name
` and address for the record.
` A Victor Michael Bove, Jr., and my
` address is 57 Ray, R-A-Y, Road in Wrentham,
` Massachusetts.
` Q Thank you.
` (Exhibit 3 marked for
` identification.)
` BY MS. GLADSTEIN:
` Q Dr. Bove, I'm handing you a
` document marked Exhibit 3 that bears a title
` of Declaration of me, Michael Bove, Jr., for
` Patent No. 8,214,873, and I will represent
` that it's in the proceeding IPR203-00598.
` Are you familiar with this
` document?
` A I am.
` Q And what is this document?
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`800-292-4789
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`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 9
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` A This document is a declaration in
` which I give my opinion on certain points
` that Yamaha's counsel has asked me to address
` with respect to the IPR of the '873 patent.
` Q And that's a document you prepared?
` A It is.
` Q And it bears your signature?
` A It does.
` Q On page 15?
` A Well, it's -- there are two sets of
` page numbers on here, just for clarity.
` Q Oh.
` Let's refer to this document
` is also marked as Yamaha Corporation of
` America, Exhibit 1002, page 16.
` A Yes.
` Q Does that page bear your signature?
` A It does.
` Q Thank you.
` (Exhibit 4 marked for
` identification.)
` BY MS. GLADSTEIN:
` Q Dr. Bove --
` A Thank you.
` Q -- I'm handing you what has been
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`800-292-4789
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`MERRILL DEPOSITION SERVICES
`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 10
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` marked as Exhibit 4.
` It's a document titled
` Declaration of Michael V. Bove for Patent
` No. 8,230,099. I will represent it's an
` inter partes review proceeding No.
` IPR2013-00597, and that also there's a Yamaha
` Corporation of America Exhibit 1002.
` Are you familiar with this
` document?
` A I am.
` Q And is this a declaration that you
` prepared?
` A It is.
` Q And does the Bates stamp page 9
` bear your signature?
` A It does.
` Q Dr. Bove, have you been deposed
` before?
` A I have.
` Q On how many occasions?
` A Quite a few going back to the
` 1990s, so I don't have an exact number.
` Q Approximately?
` A Maybe two.
` Q So you are familiar with the
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`800-292-4789
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`V. MICHAEL BOVE, JR., PH.D. - 5/29/2014
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`Page 11
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` process?
` A I think so, yes.
` Q Deposition process.
` If at any time you need to
` take a break, so long as there is no question
` pending, just let me know, and we'll go off
` the record.
` A Thank you.
` Q That's really about it.
` Is there anything that may
` impede your ability to answer questions here
` today?
` A Not that I'm aware of.
` Q Great, thank you.
` Can you please tell me about
` your education post high school.
` A I have a bachelor's degree in
` electrical engineering from the Department of
` Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
` at MIT.
` I have a master of science in
` visual studies from the Department of
` Architecture at MIT, and I have a Ph.D. in
` media technology from the program in Media
` Arts and Sciences at MIT.
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`800-292-4789
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` Q Focusing on your undergraduate
` studies, how would you characterize the work
` that you did in pursuit of your undergraduate
` degree?
` A Well, it was a fairly standard
` electrical engineering program at MIT.
` My bachelor's thesis was on
` the subject of digital television and
` interactive television.
` Q And could you tell me about the
` thesis and the focus of your master's
` studies?
` A My master's thesis was on what you
` might think of as -- nowadays you would call
` it an intelligent personal video recorder.
` So imagine a TiVo-like device
` that has a user profile for a user that reads
` the closed captioning as well as schedules of
` upcoming television programs and actually
` records personalized recordings based upon
` what it understands a user profile to be and
` how that corresponds to the subject matter of
` the programming.
` The particular area that I
` concentrated on was television news, and so
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` the system could record news broadcasts and
` play them back in a non-linear fashion based
` upon what it felt the user's interests were.
` Q So would it be fair to say that the
` focus of your master's studies was on video
` recordings?
` MR. YAP: Objection.
` A No, I wouldn't say it was on video
` recordings per se. I think it was on what
` you might think of as personalized
` television.
` Q Then how does personalized
` television differ from video recordings?
` A A video recording is a technical
` element that might be a part of a
` personalized television system, but it's not
` all of it.
` Q What are other parts of the system?
` A So there would be analysis of the
` content. There would be a profile of the
` user. It would be potentially a graphical
` user interface.
` There would be databases.
` There would be an overall control system for
` managing the storage and the processing of
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` the video and audio.
` There would be playback
` mechanisms and probably a lot of what a
` computer scientist would call "glue" holding
` it all together.
` Q Thank you.
` And with respect to your Ph.D.
` studies, what was the focus of those studies?
` A The focus of my doctoral
` dissertation was what nowadays is called
` computational photography, although that term
` wasn't in common use at the time, but it was
` the idea that if one had a camera that could
` capture three dimensions instead of just
` two-dimensional images, so actually the
` distance to each pixel, which is what a
` connect camera does now, one could enable a
` variety of applications ranging from
` interactivity to artistic or technical
` modification of the imagery, because it's a
` computer graphics database of real scenes to
` very efficient encoding of video based upon a
` three-dimensional model.
` Q Would it be fair to say in general
` terms that the focus of your Ph.D. studies
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` was on video?
` MR. YAP: Objection to form.
` A I would say video was a piece of
` it, but probably not the main focus.
` Q What would you characterize as the
` main focus?
` A I think the main focus would have
` been acquisition of computer graphics, models
` of real scenes.
` Q So if you had to sum up your
` education starting with what you did in
` college and graduate school in pursuing your
` master's degree and then pursuing your Ph.D.,
` how would you characterize the main focus
` area of your studies from undergraduate to
` graduate?
` A Well, there were many different
` aspects to it, but I would say that digital
` video was a consistent thread that was part
` of all of my work.
` Q What is your current job title?
` A Principal research scientist at the
` Media Laboratory and head of the Object-Based
` Media Group at the Media Laboratory at MIT.
` Q And as part of your job, what are
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` your duties and responsibilities?
` A I head a research group which
` conducts research in a variety of areas.
` As part of that, I supervise a
` number of graduate students, typically about
` seven or eight. I also have visiting
` researchers working in my group as well.
` Additionally, I am the chair
` of the Media Laboratory's intellectual
` property committee. Additionally, I am
` undergraduate officer for our academic
` program.
` Additionally, I am head of
` what's called the MAS Freshman Program, which
` is a specialized program for first-year
` undergraduates at MIT, and I have a variety
` of other duties as well.
` Q What is object-based media?
` A Well, object-based media is a
` phrase whose meaning has changed over the
` years.
` In the beginning it was really
` an outgrowth of my work in building scene
` models of real scenes, so representing video
` and later audio in terms of an underlying
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` model of what was actually out there in the
` world rather than just pixels or waveforms.
` And we continue to do work of
` that sort; but over the years, we've added to
` it an emphasis on making tangible objects as
` intelligent, responsive and interactive as
` virtual objects are, so that's an extension
` of it, so putting sensing intelligence and
` interactivity into physical things.
` We have also over the years
` taken on work in advanced displays, such as
` holographic television displays.
` Q You referred to in the beginning of
` the work in the object-based media.
` Approximately when did you
` begin working with object-based media?
` A Well, I think it could be said that
` my doctoral dissertation was on the subject
` of object-based media, and I continued
` working on that after I turned in my
` dissertation.
` Q And that would be at or around June
` of 1989?
` A Yes.
` Q But you would have began work with
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` respect to the dissertation sometime before
` that?
` A 1986.
` Q 1986.
` You also mentioned that the
` meaning of object-based media has evolved
` over time.
` What was the meaning of
` object-based media say around 2004?
` MR. YAP: Objection, form.
` A In about 2004, it was probably
` about as broad as it is now.
` Q And what was the meaning of it when
` you started in that area?
` A Well, so when I started, when I was
` working on my doctoral dissertation,
` object-based media related to the capture of
` models of the real world through advanced
` cameras and microphones and other sensors and
` then enabling efficient compression, enabling
` personalization of content and enabling
` interactivity and other applications by means
` of those models of the world.
` Q As a principal research scientist,
` would you see your work as academically
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` focused?
` A Well, it has an academic aspect,
` and we also work fairly closely with a number
` of industrial sponsors and collaborators as
` well, and so it has both an academic focus
` and an applied focus.
` Q And who are the industrial sponsors
` that you're working with currently?
` A Well, there are approximately 80 of
` them, and they are on the Media Laboratory
` website.
` So if you were to go there,
` you could get the list.
` Q Is Yamaha Corporation of America
` one of the sponsors?
` A I don't believe they currently are.
` They have been in the past, although I didn't
` work very closely with them at the time.
` Q How about Samsung?
` A Samsung is, yes.
` Q And have you worked with Samsung
` as -- at MIT as part of your duties and
` responsibilities?
` A Yes.
` Q And what was the nature of the work
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` that you had done with Samsung?
` A Samsung is a member of a research
` consortium, and as part of that work, we tell
` them about what they're doing. They tell us
` about what they're interested in.
` We -- they've attended
` workshops that I've run on consumer
` electronics and on other topics, and we've
` just had a variety of contacts with people
` throughout the organizations -- the
` organization, rather.
` Q Do you meet with Samsung
` representatives on a periodic basis?
` MR. YAP: Objection.
` Objection, relevance.
` A I do meet with them, yes.
` Q And say this year, how many times
` have you met with them?
` MR. YAP: Same objection.
` A That's actually a rather difficult
` question to answer, because one of my
` colleagues is going on leave from MIT this
` year to help Samsung launch a new laboratory
` on the West Coast, and I met with him almost
` daily for a good portion of this year.
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` But it was never entirely
` clear whether I was meeting with him in his
` capacity as an MIT person or as a Samsung
` person.
` Q How about with Samsung personnel
` who are not within MIT?
` MR. YAP: Objection,
` relevance.
` A Possibly about once a month.
` Q Once a month.
` And how frequently were you
` meeting with Samsung in 2013?
` MR. YAP: Same objection.
` A Probably about the same.
` Q Okay.
` And typically what are your
` meetings about?
` MR. YAP: Objection,
` relevance.
` A Well, some of the meetings relate
` to intellectual property that hasn't been
` disclosed publicly yet, and so I'm hesitant
` to go into details of that.
` I will say that we have had
` quite a few meetings on the subject of
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` three-dimensional television displays.
` Q Have you had meetings with Samsung
` on the subject of networked media?
` MR. YAP: Objection,
` relevance.
` A To the degree that networked media
` might involve smart televisions, yes.
` Q How about music players?
` MR. YAP: Same objection.
` A Not that I can recall.
` Q Okay.
` Is Pioneer a sponsor?
` A They have been in the past.
` MR. YAP: Objection,
` relevance.
` A I am not certain if they are
` currently.
` Q What would help you ascertain
` whether or not Pioneer is currently a
` sponsor?
` A I'd have to look up the dates of
` their consortium membership and see if it was
` current or not.
` Q And where would you look that up?
` A That's actually publicly available.
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` So if one were to go to the Media Lab's main
` website, there's a link from there that gives
` a list of all the current sponsors.
` Q And that would list past sponsors
` as well?
` A No.
` Q Okay.
` So if Pioneer isn't listed --
` A If Pi --
` Q And where would you go to figure
` out whether Pioneer has ever been a sponsor?
` A I have access to a contract
` database that has all of the contracts that
` any member of the laboratory has ever signed,
` and so I would be able to look up any past
` research contracts or consortium memberships
` that Pioneer might have had with the lab.
` Q And how far back does that list go?
` MR. YAP: Objection,
` relevance.
` A At least to the 1990s. Possibly
` before.
` Q And what does it take for a company
` to become a consortium member?
` A The company has to agree to the
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` terms and conditions of membership. The
` company has to pay an annual membership fee.
` And typically, a company has
` to agree to sign up for a minimum of three
` years.
` Q All right.
` And what is the annual fee of
` membership in 2014?
` A It's currently $250,000.
` Q And what was it last year in 2013?
` A In 2013, it went from 200,000 to
` 250,000.
` Q And what about 2012?
` A The same, $200,000.
` Q And besides a three-year commitment
` and the annual fee, what are some of the
` other terms and conditions in the membership
` contract?
` A There's a secondary document which
` is called the Member Benefits Document, and
` that spells out the rights and the benefits
` that accrue to members of the research
` consortia at the Media Lab.
` Q And what are some of the major
` benefits that would typically attract
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` somebody to sponsor --
` A Well, we have a set of annual
` events, both large meetings and smaller
` workshops, and they will receive invitations
` to those. They have the right to visit us.
` Additionally, we have a single
` IP pool for the entire lab and all consortia
` members have rights to the entire IP pool.
` Further, we have a portal on
` the web, which is only accessible to current
` members of the lab, which includes things
` like videos of events at the lab. It
` includes things like publications that have
` not been publicly released yet.
` It includes information about
` licensable software that may not be subject
` to patent but may be available for licensing.
` It includes information about
` patent applications that have been filed and
` a variety of other useful things.
` Q What is the IP pool that you're
` referring to?
` A So all intellectual property
` generated as a result of research at the
` Media Laboratory goes into a single pool, and
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` all corporate members of the laboratory,
` consortium members, have royalty-free rights
` to all the patents and other IP in that pool.
` Q So the patents in the pool are
` solely the patents that are generated as a
` result of the Media Lab's work?
` A Yes.
` Q What about IP generated as a result
` of the Media Lab's collaboration with any one
` of the sponsor members?
` A In general, we arrange things such
` that there is no such IP.
` On one or two occasions that
` I'm aware of when such IP was generated, the
` arrangement is that the IP goes into the
` pool, but the member who is part of the
` collaboration also is an assignee of the IP
` and has the right to license it as well,
` license it out as well.
` Q Are you currently doing any work
` for Samsung?
` MR. YAP: Objection,
` relevance.
` A Could I ask for clarification?
` Are you asking expert witness
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` work or any work at all?
` Q Any kind of work.
` A I served as a proposal reviewer for
` a research-funding mechanism that Samsung
` runs in Korea.
` Q Anything else?
` A That's the only thing at this
` point.
` Q And have you ever served as an
` expert witness on behalf of Samsung?
` A I don't believe I've been retained
` directly by Samsung. I may have been
` involved in cases in which Samsung was
` involved but not working directly for them.
` Q Not on behalf of Samsung?
` A Not on behalf of them.
` Q And besides serving as an expert
` witness on behalf of Yamaha, have you done
` any other work on behalf of Yamaha?
` And let me clarify. Besides
` serving as an expert witness on behalf of
` Yamaha in the proceedings subject of this
` deposition, the IPR2013-597 and 598.
` A I believe this is the first
` compensated work I've done for Yamaha.
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` Q And have you worked with the law
` firm of Morrison & Foerster before?
` A Yes.
` Q And when was that?
` A Quite a few times going back to the
` 1990s.
` Q When was the last time before
` the -- before your work on behalf of Yamaha
` in connection with these inter partes review
` proceedings?
` A I believe I was involved in another
` matter with Morrison & Foerster in 2012.
` I believe prior to that I was
` involved in a matter before the ITC with
` Morrison & Foerster in 2009 and 2010.
` Q And which matters were those?
` A So the first one was the -- was a
` case involving Funai at the ITC. I believe I
` also did work in a case involving mobile
` devices where I was retained on behalf of
` Kyocera Sanyo Telecom and Palm Incorporated
` through Morrison & Foerster in 2010.
` And I've probably done
` something else in the intervening period as
` well, but I don't have my notes in front of
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` me on that right now.
` Q Looking at the list of your
` consulting engagements, on pages 2 and 3 in
` the Bates-stamp markings on those pages, can
` you identify any other engagements where
` Morrison & Foerster was the law firm?
` A Well, again, I'm having to do this
` from memory, but I believe the Cirrus Logic
` matter in 1998 may have been through Morrison
` & Foerster.
` I know that several cases
` before the ITC, Morrison & Foerster was one
` of the firms that I worked with, but I may
` not have been retained through them because
` there were several firms and several parties
` involved. Let's see.
` And I think the EchoStar
` matter in 2007 may have been through Morrison
` & Foerster. At least they were involved.
` And that one, I think one of
` the Thompson matters may have involved
` Morrison & Foerster as well.
` And I think also the 20th
` Century Fox Home Entertainment matter may
` have involved Morrison & Foerster.
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`www.deposition.com/washington-dc.htm
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` But again, I'm doing this from
` memory. I don't have my notes in front of me
` on those. As you can see, I've done quite a
` few cases, and in many of them there were
` multiple parties invo
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