U N I T E D S T A T E S P A T E N T A N D T R A D E M A R K O F F I C E
`B E F O R E T H E P A T E N T T R I A L A N D A P P E A L B O A R D
`
`1
`
`C O N O P C O , I N C . d b a U N I L E V E R
`P e t i t i o n e r
`
`. .
`
`T H E P R O C T E R & G A M B L E C O M P A N Y
`P a t e n t O w n e r
`
`P a t e n t N o . 6 , 4 5 1 , 3 0 0
`Inter Partes R e v i e w N o . 2 0 1 3 - 0 0 5 0 9
`
`T H I S T R A N S C R I P T D E S I G N A T E D
`A S H I G H L Y C O N F I D E N T I A L
`A T T O R N E Y S ' E Y E S O N L Y
`
`D e p o s i t i o n o f R O B E R T Y E A T S L O C H H E A D ,
`P h . D . , 1 5 9 P O M P A N O D R I V E , H A T T I E S B U R G ,
`M I S S I S S I P P I
`3 9 4 0 2 , t a k e n i n t h e C R O W N E P L A Z A
`B O A R D R O O M , 2 8 2 9 W I L L I A M S B O U L E V A R D , K E N N E R ,
`L O U I S I A N A
`7 0 0 6 2 , o n T u e s d a y , S e p t e m b e r 9 ,
`2 0 1 4 .
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S :
`
`F O L E Y & L A R D N E R L L P
`A t t o r n e y s a t L a w
`B Y :
`M I C H A E L R . H O U S T O N , E s q u i r e
`B Y :
`J E A N N E M . G I L L S , E s q u i r e
`3 2 1 N o r t h C l a r k S t r e e t
`S u i t e 2 8 0 0
`C h i c a g o , I l l i n o i s 6 0 6 1 0 - 4 7 6 4
`
`A T T O R N E Y S F O R C O N O P C O , I N C . , d b a
`U N I L E V E R
`
`000001
`
`PUBLIC VERSION
`
`UNILEVER EXHIBIT 1037
`UNILEVER VS. PROCTOR & GAMBLE
`IPR2013-00509
`
`

`

`A P P E A R A N C E S , C O N T I N U E D :
`APPEARANCES, CONTINUED:
`
`2
`
`JONES DAY
`J O N E S D A Y
`A t t o r n e y s a t L a w
`Attorneys at Law
`B Y :
`T H O M A S R . G O O T S , E s q u i r e
`BY:
`THOMAS R. GOOTS, Esquire
`B Y :
`D A V I D M . M A I O R A N A , E s q u i r e
`BY:
`DAVID M. MAIORANA, Esquire
`N o r t h P o i n t
`North Point
`9 0 1 L a k e s i d e A v e n u e
`901 Lakeside Avenue
`C l e v e l a n d , O h i o
`4 4 1 1 4 - 1 1 9 0
`C1eve1and, Ohio
`44114—1190
`
`ATTORNEYS FOR THE PROCTER & GAMBLE
`A T T O R N E Y S F O R T H E P R O C T E R & G A M B L E
`COMPANY
`C O M P A N Y
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
`A L S O P R E S E N T :
`
`E D W A R D A L F O N S O S Q U I L L A N T E , J R . - U N I L E V E R
`EDWARD ALFONSO SQUILLANTE,
`JR.
`- UNILEVER
`RONALD KOATZ - UNILEVER
`R O N A L D K O A T Z - U N I L E V E R
`CARL J. ROOF - THE PROCTER & GAMBLE COMPANY
`C A R L J . R O O F - T H E P R O C T E R & G A M B L E C O M P A N Y
`
`REPORTED BY:
`R E P O R T E D B Y :
`
`VERNE B. MULLINS
`V E R N E B . M U L L I N S
`C e r t i f i e d C o u r t R e p o r t e r
`Certified Court Reporter
`R e g i s t e r e d D i p l o m a t e R e p o r t e r
`Registered Dip10mate Reporter
`C e r t i f i e d S h o r t h a n d R e p o r t e r ( T X )
`Certified shorthand Reporter
`(TX)
`
`000002
`
`000002
`
`

`

`3
`
`C O N O P C O , I N C . d b a U N I L E V E R
`CONOPCO,
`INC. dba UNILEVER
`
`VS. THE PROCTER & GAMBLE COMPANY
`V S . T H E P R O C T E R & G A M B L E C O M P A N Y
`
`D e p o s i t i o n o f R O B E R T Y E A T S L O C H H E A D , P h . D .
`Deposition of ROBERT YEATS LOCHHEAD, Ph.D.
`
`T a k e n o n S e p t e m b e r 9 , 2 0 1 4
`Taken on September 9, 2014
`
`EXHIBIT INDEX
`E X H I B I T I N D E X
`
`U N L 1 0 4 0 - R e s e a r c h R e p o r t - I s l e w o r t h L a b o r a t o r y ,
`UNL1040 — Research Report
`—
`IsTeworth Laboratory,
`
`U n i l e v e r R e s e a r c h .
`UniTever Research.
`
`000003
`
`000003
`
`

`

`INDEX
`I N D E X
`
`4
`
`P a g e , L i n e
`Page, Line
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. HOUSTON
`E X A M I N A T I O N B Y M R . H O U S T O N
`
`6
`6
`
`6
`6
`
`E x h i b i t # 1 0 4 0
`Exhibit #1040
`
`5 3
`53
`
`2 2
`22
`
`000004
`
`000004
`
`

`

`5
`
`STIPULATION
`S T I P U L A T I O N
`
`I t i s s t i p u l a t e d a n d a g r e e d b y a n d
`It is stipu1ated and agreed by and
`
`b e t w e e n c o u n s e l f o r t h e p a r t i e s h e r e t o t h a t
`between counse1 for the parties hereto that
`
`t h e d e p o s i t i o n o f t h e a f o r e m e n t i o n e d w i t n e s s
`the deposition of the aforementioned witness
`
`i s h e r e b y b e i n g t a k e n u n d e r t h e F e d e r a l R u l e s
`is hereby being taken under
`the Federai Ru1es
`
`o f C i v i l P r o c e d u r e , f o r a l l p u r p o s e s , i n
`of Civi1 Procedure,
`for a11 purposes,
`in
`
`a c c o r d a n c e w i t h l a w ;
`accordance with 1aw;
`
`T h a t t h e f o r m a l i t i e s o f r e a d i n g a n d
`That
`the forma1ities of reading and
`
`s i g n i n g a r e s p e c i f i c a l l y n o t w a i v e d ;
`signing are specifica11y not waived;
`
`T h a t t h e f o r m a l i t i e s o f s e a l i n g ,
`That
`the forma1ities of sea1ing,
`
`c e r t i f i c a t i o n a n d f i l i n g a r e s p e c i f i c a l l y
`certification and fi1ing are specifica11y
`
`w a i v e d ;
`waived;
`
`T h a t a l l o b j e c t i o n s , s a v e t h o s e a s t o t h e
`That a1] objections, save those as to the
`
`f o r m o f t h e q u e s t i o n a n d t h e r e s p o n s i v e n e s s o f
`form of the question and the responsiveness of
`
`t h e a n s w e r , a r e h e r e b y r e s e r v e d u n t i l s u c h
`the answer, are hereby reserved unti1 such
`
`t i m e a s t h i s d e p o s i t i o n , o r a n y p a r t t h e r e o f ,
`time as this deposition, or any part thereof,
`
`m a y b e u s e d o r s o u g h t t o b e u s e d i n e v i d e n c e .
`may be used or sought
`to be used in evidence.
`
`V E R N E B . M U L L I N S , R e g i s t e r e d D i p l o m a t e
`VERNE B. MULLINS, Registered Dipiomate
`
`R e p o r t e r , C e r t i f i e d C o u r t R e p o r t e r , i n a n d f o r
`Reporter, Certified Court Reporter,
`in and for
`
`t h e P a r i s h o f O r l e a n s , S t a t e o f L o u i s i a n a , a n d
`the Parish of 0r1eans, State of Louisiana, and
`
`C e r t i f i e d S h o r t h a n d R e p o r t e r ( T X ) , o f f i c i a t e d
`Certified shorthand Reporter
`(TX), officiated
`
`i n a d m i n i s t e r i n g t h e o a t h t o t h e w i t n e s s .
`in administering the oath to the witness.
`
`000005
`
`000005
`
`

`

`6
`
`R O B E R T Y E A T S L O C H H E A D , P h . D . ,
`ROBERT YEATS LOCHHEAD, Ph.D.,
`
`a f t e r h a v i n g b e e n f i r s t d u l y s w o r n b y t h e
`after having been first du1y sworn by the
`
`a b o v e - m e n t i o n e d c o u r t r e p o r t e r , d i d t e s t i f y
`above—mentioned court reporter, did testify
`
`a s f o l l o w s :
`as foTTows:
`
`( O n t h e r e c o r d a t 8 : 3 5 a . m . )
`(0n the record at 8:35 a.m.)
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. HOUSTON:
`E X A M I N A T I O N B Y M R . H O U S T O N :
`
`QQ. G o o d m o r n i n g , D r . L o c h h e a d .
`Q. Good morning, Dr. Lochhead.
`
`A. G o o d m o r n i n g .
`A. Good morning.
`
`Q. I i n t r o d u c e d m y s e l f b e f o r e w e g o t s t a r t e d b u t
`Q.
`I
`introduced myseif before we got started but
`
`I ' l l a n n o u n c e i t a g a i n f o r t h e r e c o r d .
`I'TT announce it again for the record.
`
`M y
`My
`
`n a m e i s M i c h a e l H o u s t o n , I ' m a n a t t o r n e y w i t h
`name is Michaei Houston,
`I'm an attorney with
`
`F o l e y & L a r d n e r , r e p r e s e n t i n g t h e p e t i t i o n e r
`FoTey & Lardner,
`representing the petitioner
`
`i n t h i s c a s e , C o n o p c o , I n c . , a n d f o r t h e
`in this case, Conopco, Inc., and for the
`
`r e c o r d I ' l l i n t r o d u c e m y c o l l e a g u e s .
`W i t h m e
`record I'TT introduce my coTTeagues. with me
`
`a r e J e a n n e G i l l s , a l s o f r o m F o l e y & L a r d n e r ,
`are Jeanne Giiis, aiso from FoTey & Lardner,
`
`a s w e l l a s E d w a r d S q u i l l a n t e a n d R o n a l d K o a t z ,
`as we11 as Edward Squi11ante and RonaTd Koatz,
`
`o f P e t i t i o n e r , C o n o p c o .
`of Petitioner, Conopco.
`
`C o u n s e l , d o y o u w a n t t o i n t r o d u c e y o u r
`CounseT, do you want
`to introduce your
`
`t e a m f o r t h e r e c o r d ?
`team for the record?
`
`MR. GOOTS:
`M R . G O O T S :
`
`I ' l l i n t r o d u c e m y s e l f a n d I ' l l l e t
`I'TT introduce myseTf and I'11 Tet
`
`t h e m i n t r o d u c e t h e m s e l v e s .
`them introduce themseives.
`
`T o m G o o t s
`Tom Goots
`
`w i t h t h e l a w f i r m o f J o n e s D a y ,
`with the 1aw firm of Jones Day,
`
`r e p r e s e n t i n g p a t e n t o w n e r , t h e P r o c t o r &
`representing patent owner,
`the Proctor &
`
`G a m b l e c o m p a n y .
`GambTe company.
`
`000006
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`U)00‘401
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000006
`
`

`

`7
`
`MR. MAIORANA:
`M R . M A I O R A N A :
`
`D a v i d M a i o r a n a f r o m J o n e s D a y , o n
`David Maiorana from Jones Day, on
`
`b e h a l f o f P & G .
`behaif of P & G.
`
`MR. ROOF:
`M R . R O O F :
`
`C a r l R o o f , P r o c t e r & G a m b l e .
`Cari Roof, Procter & Gambie.
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. HOUSTON:
`E X A M I N A T I O N B Y M R . H O U S T O N :
`
`QQ. D r . L o c h h e a d , h a v e y o u h a d y o u r d e p o s i t i o n
`Q. Dr. Lochhead, have you had your deposition
`
`t a k e n b e f o r e ?
`taken before?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. S o y o u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t I ' l l b e a s k i n g y o u a
`So you understand that I'11 be asking you a
`
`s e r i e s o f q u e s t i o n s t o d a y a n d t h a t w e h a v e a
`series of questions today and that we have a
`
`c o u r t r e p o r t e r h e r e w h o w i l l b e r e c o r d i n g
`court reporter here who wi11 be recording
`
`t h o s e a s w e l l a s r e c o r d i n g y o u r a n s w e r s t o
`those as we11 as recording your answers to
`
`t h o s e q u e s t i o n s ?
`those questions?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. A n d d o y o u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t s o t h e c o u r t
`And do you understand that so the court
`
`r e p o r t e r c a n t a k e d o w n e v e r y t h i n g t h a t ' s s a i d ,
`reporter can take down everything that's said,
`
`w e n e e d y o u t o s p e a k u p a n d t o v e r b a l i z e y o u r
`we need you to speak up and to verbaiize your
`
`a n s w e r s , a s o p p o s e d t o n o d d i n g y e s o r n o t o
`answers, as opposed to nodding yes or no to
`
`t h o s e q u e s t i o n s ?
`those questions?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. A n d d o y o u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t i f I a s k y o u a
`And do you understand that if I ask you a
`
`q u e s t i o n t h a t m a y b e I d o n ' t s t a t e v e r y w e l l o r
`question that maybe I don't state very we11 or
`
`t h a t , f o r w h a t e v e r r e a s o n , y o u d o n ' t
`that,
`for whatever reason, you don't
`
`u n d e r s t a n d , t h a t y o u c a n a s k m e t o r e p h r a s e i t
`understand,
`that you can ask me
`to rephrase it
`
`000007
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`U)00‘401
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000007
`
`

`

`8
`
`o r t o e x p l a i n m y q u e s t i o n s , s o t h a t y o u c a n
`or
`to exp1ain my questions,
`so that you can
`
`b e t t e r u n d e r s t a n d i t ?
`better understand it?
`
`Yes.
`AA. Y e s .
`
`Q. O k a y .
`Okay.
`
`A n d o n e m o r e r e q u e s t , y o u u n d e r s t a n d
`And one more request, you understand
`
`t h a t , t h i s w o r k s b e s t i f y o u c a n t r y t o l e t m e
`that,
`this works best if you can try to 1et me
`
`f i n i s h m y q u e s t i o n b e f o r e y o u b e g i n t o a n s w e r ,
`finish my question before you begin to answer,
`
`a n d l i k e w i s e I ' l l t r y t o l e t y o u f i n i s h y o u r
`and 1ikewise I'11 try to 1et you finish your
`
`a n s w e r b e f o r e I a s k t h e n e x t q u e s t i o n .
`answer before I ask the next question.
`
`I s
`Is
`
`t h a t o k a y ?
`that okay?
`
`A. I u n d e r s t a n d .
`I understand.
`
`Q. O k a y .
`Okay.
`
`I s t h e r e a n y t h i n g a b o u t y o u r h e a l t h
`Is there anything about your hea1th
`
`t o d a y t h a t w o u l d p r e v e n t y o u f r o m g i v i n g
`today that wou1d prevent you from giving
`
`c o m p l e t e a n d a c c u r a t e t e s t i m o n y , d u r i n g y o u r
`comp1ete and accurate testimony, during your
`
`d e p o s i t i o n ?
`deposition?
`
`A. N o t t h a t I ' m a w a r e o f .
`Not
`that I'm aware of.
`
`Q. O k a y .
`Okay.
`
`A n d o n e o f t h e b a c k g r o u n d i s s u e s I ' d
`And one of the background issues I'd
`
`l i k e t o c o v e r , y o u u n d e r s t a n d t h a t t h i s
`1ike to cover, you understand that this
`
`d e p o s i t i o n h e r e t o d a y i s a c t u a l l y c o v e r i n g t w o
`deposition here today is actua11y covering two
`
`m a t t e r s t h a t a r e p e n d i n g b e f o r e t h e p a t e n t
`matters that are pending before the patent
`
`o f f i c e ?
`office?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. O n e i n v o l v i n g w h a t w e i n s h o r t h a n d r e f e r t o a s
`One invoiving what we
`in shorthand refer to as
`
`t h e ' 5 6 9 p a t e n t , a n d t h e o t h e r i n v o l v i n g w h a t
`the '569 patent, and the other invoiving what
`
`w e r e f e r t o a s t h e ' 3 0 0 p a t e n t ?
`we refer to as the '300 patent?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`000008
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000008
`
`

`

`9
`
`Q. O k a y .
`Okay.
`
`S o t o s o r t o f s i m p l i f y t h i n g s t o d a y , I
`So to sort of simp1ify things today,
`I
`
`m a y n o t a l w a y s r e f e r t o b o t h o f t h o s e p a t e n t s
`may not a1ways refer to both of those patents
`
`o r b o t h o f t h e - - t h e s e p a r a t e e x h i b i t s i n
`or both of the —— the separate exhibits in
`
`t h o s e p r o c e e d i n g s , b u t w i l l y o u t r y t o l e t m e
`those proceedings, but wi11 you try to 1et me
`
`k n o w i f y o u ' r e a w a r e o f a n y t h i n g t h a t ' s s o r t
`know if you're aware of anything that's sort
`
`o f d i f f e r e n t a s b e t w e e n t w o p r o c e e d i n g s t h a t
`of different as between two proceedings that
`
`m a y b e i m p o r t a n t f o r t h e q u e s t i o n s o r a n s w e r s
`may be important for the questions or answers
`
`t o d a y ?
`today?
`
`A. Y e s , i f y o u a s k t h e q u e s t i o n s .
`Yes,
`if you ask the questions.
`
`Q. O k a y .
`D r . L o c h h e a d , c a n y o u t e l l m e w h a t y o u r
`Okay. Dr. Lochhead, can you te11 me what your
`
`c u r r e n t o c c u p a t i o n i s .
`current occupation is.
`
`A. I ' m a p r o f e s s o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h e r n
`I'm a professor at
`the University of Southern
`
`M i s s i s s i p p i .
`Mississippi.
`
`Q. H o w l o n g h a v e y o u b e e n a p r o f e s s o r a t S o u t h e r n
`How iong have you been a professor at Southern
`
`M i s s ?
`Miss?
`
`A. T w e n t y - f o u r y e a r s .
`Twenty—four years.
`
`MR. GOOTS:
`M R . G O O T S :
`
`L e t h i m f i n i s h .
`Let him finish.
`
`EXAMINATION BY MR. HOUSTON:
`E X A M I N A T I O N B Y M R . H O U S T O N :
`
`Q. S o y o u s t a r t e d t h e r e i n a r o u n d 1 9 9 0 ; i s t h a t
`So you started there in around 1990;
`is that
`
`r i g h t ?
`right?
`
`A. Y e s .
`Yes.
`
`I ' d l i k e t o c o r r e c t t h a t , I ' v e b e e n a
`I'd 1ike to correct that, I've been a
`
`p r o f e s s o r f o r 2 4 y e a r s .
`professor for 24 years.
`
`B e e n a t t h e
`Been at
`the
`
`U n i v e r s i t y o f M i s s i s s i p p i f o r 2 4 y e a r s b u t I
`University of Mississippi
`for 24 years but
`I
`
`b e c a m e a p r o f e s s o r l a t e r i n t h a t t i m e .
`became a professor 1ater in that time.
`
`000009
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000009
`
`

`

`Q. W h a t w a s y o u r p o s i t i o n b e f o r e y o u b e c a m e a
`what was your position before you became a
`
`10
`10
`
`p r o f e s s o r ?
`professor?
`
`A. A s s o c i a t e p r o f e s s o r .
`Associate professor.
`
`Q. A n y t h i n g b e f o r e t h a t ?
`Anything before that?
`
`A. N o .
`No.
`
`I w a s h i r e d - - I w a s a l s o a n a d j u n c t
`I was hired —— I was aiso an adjunct
`
`p r o f e s s o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f C i n c i n n a t i .
`professor at
`the University of Cincinnati.
`
`A d j u n c t , s o r r y , a s s o c i a t e p r o f e s s o r , I t h i n k
`Adjunct, sorry, associate professor,
`I
`think
`
`i t w a s .
`it was.
`
`I ' m n o t c l e a r a b o u t t h e t i t l e .
`I'm not c1ear about
`the tit1e.
`
`Q. A n d w h e n w a s t h a t t h a t y o u w e r e a n a d j u n c t
`And when was
`that that you were an adjunct
`
`p r o f e s s o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f C i n c i n n a t i ?
`professor at
`the University of Cincinnati?
`
`A. L a t e 1 9 8 0 s t o e a r l y 1 9 9 0 s .
`Late 19805 to ear1y 19905.
`
`Q. A n d b y a d j u n c t p r o f e s s o r , d o e s t h a t i m p l y t h a t
`And by adjunct professor, does that
`imp1y that
`
`y o u w e r e - - t h a t y o u h a d o t h e r o c c u p a t i o n s a t
`you were —— that you had other occupations at
`
`t h e s a m e t i m e t h a t y o u w e r e a n a d j u n c t
`the same time that you were an adjunct
`
`p r o f e s s o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f C i n c i n n a t i ?
`professor at
`the University of Cincinnati?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. S o d i d t h a t p o s i t i o n a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f
`So did that position at
`the University of
`
`C i n c i n n a t i o v e r l a p - - w e l l , l e t m e a s k i t t h i s
`Cincinnati over1ap —— we11, 1et me ask it this
`
`w a y :
`W h a t o t h e r p o s i t i o n s d i d y o u r s t i n t a s
`way: what other positions did your stint as
`
`a n a d j u n c t p r o f e s s o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f
`an adjunct professor at
`the University of
`
`C i n c i n n a t i o v e r l a p w i t h ?
`Cincinnati over1ap with?
`
`A. M y p o s i t i o n a t B . F . G o o d r i c h , a n d a l s o m y
`My position at B.F. Goodrich, and aiso my
`
`p o s i t i o n a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h e r n
`position at
`the University of Southern
`
`M i s s i s s i p p i .
`Mississippi.
`
`Q. A s p a r t o f y o u r w o r k , e i t h e r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y
`As part of your work, either at
`the University
`
`000010
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000010
`
`

`

`11
`11
`
`o f C i n c i n n a t i o r a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f S o u t h e r n
`of Cincinnati or at
`the University of Southern
`
`M i s s i s s i p p i , d o y o u c o n d u c t r e s e a r c h ?
`Mississippi, do you conduct research?
`
`Yes.
`AA. Y e s .
`
`Q. W h a t a r e y o u r c u r r e n t p r i m a r y a r e a s o f
`what are your current primary areas of
`
`r e s e a r c h ?
`research?
`
`A. F o r m u l a t i o n , p o l y m e r s , p o l y m e r s o l u t i o n s ,
`Formu1ation, poiymers, poiymer soiutions,
`
`p o l y m e r - s u r f a c t a n t i n t e r a c t i o n , s u r f a c t a n t s .
`poiymer—surfactant interaction, surfactants.
`
`Q. W h e n y o u s a y " f o r m u l a t i o n , " w h a t d o y o u m e a n
`when you say "formuiation,' what do you mean
`
`b y f o r m u l a t i o n ?
`by formuiation?
`
`A. F o r m u l a t i o n s , h o w y o u p u t c o m p l e x m i x t u r e s
`Formu1ations,
`how you put compiex mixtures
`
`t o g e t h e r , t o t r y t o g e t a d e s i r e d r e s u l t .
`together,
`to try to get a desired resu1t.
`
`Q. I s t h a t f o r m u l a t i o n w o r k d i r e c t e d t o a n y
`Is that formuiation work directed to any
`
`s p e c i f i c t y p e o f i n - u s e p r o d u c t ?
`specific type of in—use product?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. W h a t i n - u s e p r o d u c t s w o u l d t h a t f o r m u l a t i o n
`what
`in—use products wouid that formuiation
`
`w o r k - - m i g h t t h a t f o r m u l a t i o n w o r k b e
`work —— might that formuiation work be
`
`s p e c i f i c a l l y d i r e c t e d t o ?
`specificaiiy directed to?
`
`A. M a n y .
`Many.
`
`M y m o s t r e c e n t a s b e i n g o i l s p i l l
`My most recent as being oi1 spi11
`
`d i s p e r s a n t s a n d c a m o u f l a g e m a k e u p .
`dispersants and camoufiage makeup.
`
`Q. H a s a n y o f y o u r r e s e a r c h , w h i l e e i t h e r a t t h e
`Has any of your research, whiie either at
`the
`
`U n i v e r s i t y o f C i n c i n n a t i o r t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f
`University of Cincinnati or
`the University of
`
`S o u t h e r n M i s s , i n v o l v e d o r b e e n d i r e c t e d t o
`Southern Miss,
`invoived or been directed to
`
`s h a m p o o f o r m u l a t i o n s ?
`shampoo formuiations?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. H o w a b o u t c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s ?
`How about conditioning shampoos?
`
`000011
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000011
`
`

`

`12
`12
`
`Yes.
`AA. Y e s .
`
`Q. H o w a b o u t a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s ?
`How about anti—dandruff conditioning shampoos?
`
`A. I h a v e n ' t w o r k e d s p e c i f i c a l l y w i t h
`I haven't worked specifica11y with
`
`a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s a s a
`anti—dandruff conditioning shampoos as a
`
`p r o f e s s o r , a s - - i n m y r e s e a r c h .
`professor, as —— in my research.
`
`Q. H a v e y o u w o r k e d o n c o n d i t i o n i n g a n t i - d a n d r u f f
`Have you worked on conditioning anti—dandruff
`
`s h a m p o o s o u t s i d e o f y o u r d i r e c t r e s e a r c h ?
`shampoos outside of your direct research?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. C a n y o u d e s c r i b e t h o s e p r o j e c t s f o r m e ?
`Can you describe those projects for me?
`
`A. Y e s .
`Yes.
`
`I f i r s t b e c a m e a w a r e o f c o n d i t i o n i n g
`I first became aware of conditioning
`
`a n t i - d a n d r u f f s h a m p o o s i n t h e 1 9 7 0 s w h e n I
`anti—dandruff shampoos in the 19705 when I
`
`w o r k e d w i t h U n i l e v e r .
`worked with Uni1ever.
`
`A n d I c a n ' t r e m e m b e r
`And I can't
`remember
`
`d e t a i l , b u t b e i n g a w a r e o f - - o f t h a t a r e a
`detai1, but being aware of —— of that area
`
`s i n c e t h a t t i m e , b e e n i n a r o u n d t h a t a r e a .
`since that time, been in around that area.
`
`Q. S i n c e y o u r i n i t i a l w o r k o n c o n d i t i o n i n g
`Since your initia1 work on conditioning
`
`a n t i - d a n d r u f f s h a m p o o s a t U n i l e v e r i n t h e
`anti—dandruff shampoos at Uni1ever in the
`
`1 9 7 0 s , c a n y o u r e c a l l a n y s p e c i f i c p r o j e c t s
`19705, can you reca11 any specific projects
`
`t h a t y o u ' v e w o r k e d o n t h a t a r e d i r e c t e d t o
`that you've worked on that are directed to
`
`a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s ?
`anti—dandruff conditioning shampoos?
`
`NO.
`A. N o .
`
`Q. S o w a s y o u r - - w a s t h e p r o j e c t a t U n i l e v e r
`So was your —— was
`the project at Uni1ever
`
`t h a t w a s r e l a t e d t o a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g
`that was re1ated to anti—dandruff conditioning
`
`s h a m p o o s t h e o n l y w o r k t h a t y o u ' v e d o n e i n
`shampoos the on1y work that you've done in
`
`y o u r c a r e e r t h a t w a s d i r e c t e d t o a n t i - d a n d r u f f
`your career that was directed to anti—dandruff
`
`c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s ?
`conditioning shampoos?
`
`000012
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`U)00‘401
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000012
`
`

`

`13
`13
`
`NO.
`AA. N o .
`
`Q. W h a t o t h e r w o r k h a v e y o u d o n e t h a t i s r e l a t e d
`what other work have you done that
`is re1ated
`
`t o a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s ?
`to anti—dandruff conditioning shampoos?
`
`A. I ' v e - - I ' v e b e e n a w a r e o f t h e l i t e r a t u r e a n d
`I've —— I've been aware of the 1iterature and
`
`I ' v e r e a d t h e l i t e r a t u r e , a s i t ' s c o m e o u t
`I've read the 1iterature, as it's come out
`
`t h e n , i n b o t h a n t i - d a n d r u f f a n d c o n d i t i o n i n g
`then,
`in both anti—dandruff and conditioning
`
`s h a m p o o s .
`shampoos.
`
`Q. A s i d e f r o m r e a d i n g t h e l i t e r a t u r e a n d a s i d e
`Aside from reading the 1iterature and aside
`
`f r o m t h e p r o j e c t a t U n i l e v e r i n t h e 1 9 7 0 s ,
`from the project at Uni1ever in the 19705,
`
`h a v e y o u d o n e a n y o t h e r w o r k s p e c i f i c a l l y
`have you done any other work specifica11y
`
`d i r e c t e d t o a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g
`directed to anti—dandruff conditioning
`
`s h a m p o o s ?
`shampoos?
`
`NO.
`A. N o .
`
`Q. H a v e y o u e v e r r e c e i v e d f u n d i n g f o r a n y o f y o u r
`Have you ever received funding for any of your
`
`r e s e a r c h p r o j e c t s f r o m P r o c t o r & G a m b l e ?
`research projects from Proctor & Gamb1e?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. D o y o u k n o w a b o u t h o w m a n y p r o j e c t s y o u m a y
`Do you know about how many projects you may
`
`h a v e r e c e i v e d f u n d i n g f r o m P r o c t o r & G a m b l e
`have received funding from Proctor & Gamb1e
`
`on?
`o n ?
`
`A. I c a n ' t r e m e m b e r .
`I can't
`remember.
`
`O n e o r t w o , p e r h a p s t h r e e .
`One or
`two, perhaps three.
`
`Q. D o y o u r e c a l l w h a t p r o j e c t s t h o s e w e r e ?
`Do you reca11 what projects those were?
`
`A. Y e s .
`Yes.
`
`T h e f u n d i n g w a s n ' t d i r e c t f u n d i n g t o m e .
`The funding wasn't direct funding to me.
`
`I t w a s f u n d e d b y t h e N a t i o n a l S c i e n c e
`It was
`funded by the Nationa1 Science
`
`F o u n d a t i o n t o t h e p o l y m e r s - s u r f a c t a n t
`Foundation to the poiymers—surfactant
`
`i n t e r a c t i o n s a n d P r o c t o r & G a m b l e t o o k m y
`interactions and Proctor & Gamb1e took my
`
`000013
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000013
`
`

`

`14
`14
`
`s t u d e n t s o n a s i n t e r n s i n t h e s u m m e r t i m e .
`students on as interns in the summertime.
`
`QQ. W a s t h a t t h e o n l y f u n d i n g t h a t y o u ' r e a w a r e o f
`Was
`that the on1y funding that you're aware of
`
`f r o m P r o c t o r & G a m b l e f o r y o u r r e s e a r c h ?
`from Proctor & Gamb1e for your research?
`
`A. N o , I t h i n k t h e - - t h e y d i d f u n d s o m e p o l y m e r
`No,
`I
`think the —— they did fund some poiymer
`
`s u r f a c t a n t i n t e r a c t i o n w o r k .
`surfactant
`interaction work.
`
`Q. C a n y o u d e s c r i b e t h a t p a r t i c u l a r w o r k o r t h a t
`Can you describe that particuiar work or that
`
`p r o j e c t i n a n y m o r e d e t a i l ?
`project
`in anymore detai1?
`
`A. I t w a s t o l o o k a t t h e i n t e r a c t i o n o f c a t i o n i c
`It was
`to 100k at
`the interaction of cationic
`
`p o l y m e r s w i t h a n i o n i c s u r f a c t a n t s , a n d l o o k a t
`poiymers with anionic surfactants, and 100k at
`
`t h e p h a s e d i a g r a m s t o d e t e r m i n e w h e n
`the phase diagrams to determine when
`
`c o a c e r v a t e s f o r m .
`coacervates form.
`
`Q. W a s t h a t w o r k d i r e c t e d t o a n t i - d a n d r u f f
`Was
`that work directed to anti—dandruff
`
`c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s ?
`conditioning shampoos?
`
`A. N o t t h a t I ' m a w a r e .
`Not
`that I'm aware.
`
`Q. I ' m s o r r y ?
`I'm sorry?
`
`A. N o t t h a t I ' m a w a r e .
`Not
`that I'm aware.
`
`P???
`
`Q. W o u l d i t h a v e b e e n u s e f u l f o r u s e i n
`Wou1d it have been usefu1 for use in
`
`a n t i - d a n d r u f f c o n d i t i o n i n g s h a m p o o s , i n y o u r
`anti—dandruff conditioning shampoos,
`in your
`
`o p i n i o n ?
`opinion?
`
`A. I t m a y h a v e b e e n .
`It may have been.
`
`Q. D o y o u k n o w w h e n t h a t w o r k w a s , w h e n t h a t
`Do you know when that work was, when that
`
`p r o j e c t w a s ?
`project was?
`
`A. I c a n ' t r e c a l l e x a c t l y .
`I can't
`reca11 exact1y.
`
`I t ' s p r o b a b l y a
`It's probab1y a
`
`d e c a d e o r m o r e a g o .
`decade or more ago.
`
`Q. S o i f y o u r C V l i s t s a p r o j e c t r e f e r r e d t o a s
`So if your CV 1ists a project referred to as
`
`000014
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000014
`
`

`

`c a t i o n i c c e l l u l o s e s c r e e n i n g i n 2 0 0 3 , d o e s
`cationic ce11u1ose screening in 2003, does
`
`t h a t s o u n d l i k e t h a t w a s t h e p r o j e c t y o u w e r e
`that sound 1ike that was
`the project you were
`
`15
`15
`
`r e f e r r i n g t o ?
`referring to?
`
`Yes.
`AA. Y e s .
`
`Q. D o y o u r e c a l l h o w m u c h f u n d i n g P r o c t o r &
`Do you reca11 how much funding Proctor &
`
`G a m b l e p r o v i d e d ?
`Gamb1e provided?
`
`A. I c a n ' t r e m e m b e r .
`I can't
`remember.
`
`I t h i n k i t ' s o n m y C V .
`I
`think it's on my CV.
`
`Q. I b e l i e v e y o u r C V , t h e n o t e s I h a v e , i n d i c a t e
`I be1ieve your CV,
`the notes I have,
`indicate
`
`$ 9 6 , 0 0 0 .
`$96,000.
`
`D o e s t h a t s o u n d r i g h t ?
`Does that sound right?
`
`A. I - - I ' d h a v e t o l o o k a t m y C V , b u t - - I c a n ' t
`I —— I'd have to 100k at my CV, but —— I can't
`
`r e c a l l e x a c t l y .
`reca11 exact1y.
`
`Q. A n d w a s t h a t f u n d i n g p r o v i d e d d i r e c t l y t o y o u ,
`And was
`that funding provided direct1y to you,
`
`f o r y o u r r e s e a r c h ?
`for your research?
`
`A. N o .
`No.
`
`I t w a s p r o v i d e d t o t h e u n i v e r s i t y .
`It was provided to the university.
`
`N o t h i n g i s p r o v i d e d d i r e c t l y t o m e , b e c a u s e i t
`Nothing is provided direct1y to me, because it
`
`a l l g o e s t o t h e u n i v e r s i t y .
`a11 goes to the university.
`
`Q. U n d e r s t o o d .
`Understood.
`
`P r o v i d e d t o y o u i n y o u r c a p a c i t y
`Provided to you in your capacity
`
`a s a p r o f e s s o r a t t h e u n i v e r s i t y i s s o r t o f
`as a professor at
`the university is sort of
`
`w h a t I w a s r e f e r r i n g t o .
`what
`I was referring to.
`
`L e t m e a s k i t t h i s
`Let me ask it this
`
`w a y :
`E a r l i e r y o u m e n t i o n e d t h a t s o m e o f
`way: Eariier you mentioned that
`some of
`
`P r o c t o r & G a m b l e ' s f u n d i n g w e n t t h r o u g h t h e
`Proctor & Gamb1e's funding went
`through the
`
`N a t i o n a l S c i e n c e F o u n d a t i o n .
`Nationa1 Science Foundation.
`
`D i d t h i s p r o j e c t
`Did this project
`
`f o r t h e s c r e e n i n g o f t h e c a t i o n i c p o l y m e r s g o
`for the screening of the cationic po1ymers go
`
`t h r o u g h t h e N S F , o r i s t h a t d i r e c t l y t o t h e
`through the NSF, or
`is that direct1y to the
`
`u n i v e r s i t y f o r y o u r w o r k ?
`university for your work?
`
`000015
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`U)00‘401
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000015
`
`

`

`AA. I t h i n k y o u ' r e m i s q u o t i n g m y - - m y s t a t e m e n t .
`I
`think you're misquoting my —— my statement.
`
`16
`16
`
`P???
`
`Q. O k a y .
`Okay.
`
`A. M y s t a t e m e n t .
`My statement.
`
`Q. O k a y .
`Okay.
`
`I ' m s o r r y .
`I'm sorry.
`
`I ' m j u s t t r y i n g t o g e t a t ,
`I'm just trying to get at,
`
`w a s t h i s w o r k - - w a s t h i s f u n d i n g f r o m P r o c t o r
`was
`this work —— was
`this funding from Proctor
`
`& G a m b l e f o r t h e c a t i o n i c c e l l u l o s e s c r e e n i n g
`& Gambie for the cationic ceiiuiose screening
`
`p r o v i d e d d i r e c t l y t o t h e u n i v e r s i t y ?
`provided direct1y to the university?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`Q. F o r y o u r w o r k o n t h a t p r o j e c t ?
`For your work on that project?
`
`Yes.
`A. Y e s .
`
`P???
`
`Q. D o y o u k n o w w h e t h e r P r o c t o r & G a m b l e h a s
`Do you know whether Proctor & Gambie has
`
`f u n d e d a n y o t h e r r e s e a r c h a t t h e U n i v e r s i t y o f
`funded any other research at
`the University of
`
`S o u t h e r n M i s s i s s i p p i ?
`Southern Mississippi?
`
`A. I ' m n o t a w a r e .
`I'm not aware.
`
`Q. Y o u ' r e n o t a w a r e o f i t ?
`You're not aware of it?
`
`A. I ' m n o t a w a r e o f i t , n o .
`S i t t i n g h e r e r i g h t
`I'm not aware of it, no. Sitting here right
`
`n o w , I c a n ' t r e c a l l .
`now,
`I can't
`reca11.
`
`Q. W e r e y o u w o r k i n g w i t h P r o c t o r & G a m b l e d u r i n g
`Were you working with Proctor & Gambie during
`
`y o u r t i m e a s a n a d j u n c t p r o f e s s o r a t t h e
`your time as an adjunct professor at
`the
`
`U n i v e r s i t y o f C i n c i n n a t i ?
`University of Cincinnati?
`
`A. Y e a h .
`Y e a h , I m a y h a v e b e e n .
`Yeah. Yeah,
`I may have been.
`
`f
`
`000016
`
`1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
`
`NH
`
`UJ
`
`LOOONCh
`
`10
`10
`
`11
`11
`
`12
`12
`
`13
`13
`
`14
`14
`
`15
`15
`
`16
`16
`
`17
`17
`
`18
`18
`
`19
`19
`
`20
`20
`
`21
`21
`
`22
`22
`
`23
`23
`
`24
`24
`
`25
`25
`
`000016
`
`

`

`f
`
`17
`17
`
`&
`
`&
`
`Q. W e r e t h o s e p o l y m e r s t h a t y o u w e r e w o r k i n g o n
`Were those poiymers that you were working on
`
`t h a t y o u j u s t r e f e r r e d t o , w o u l d t h e y h a v e
`that you just referred to, wouid they have
`
`b e e n c a t i o n i c p o l y m e r s ?
`been cationic poiymers?
`
`No.
`A. N o .
`
`Q. W h