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` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` CASE IPR: Unassigned
`
` Patent 6,974,569
`
` CONOPCO, INC. dba UNILEVER CORP. )
`
` Petitioner, )
`
` vs. )
`
` THE PROCTOR & GAMBLE COMPANY, )
`
` Patent Owner, )
`
` ___________________________________)
`
` Friday, March 7, 2014
`
` Teleconference held on the above date,
`
` beginning at approximately 10:04 a.m., and reported
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` stenographically by Nancy J. Martin, a Registered
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` Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter, and
`
` Notary Public of Maryland, Commonwealth of Virginia,
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` Washington, D.C., and North Carolina
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` Veritext National Court Reporting Company
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` Mid-Atlantic Region
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` 1250 Eye Street NW - Suite 1201
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` Washington, D.C. 20005
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`VERITEXT NATIONAL COURT REPORTING COMPANY
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`1 settlement discussions specifically directed to the
`2 interparties reviews that bring us all together today.
`3 There is a co-pending litigation from which these IDRs
`4 arose, and that litigation, there has been some
`5 discussions between the parties, but it has predated
`6 these interparty reviews.
`7 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. Thank you. Are there
`8 any issues with the scheduling order? Petitioner?
`9 MS. ELLISON: Not from our side, Your Honor.
`10 JUDGE GREEN: Patent owner?
`11 MR. WEINSTEIN: Not from us, Your Honor.
`12 Thank you.
`13 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. I will remind the
`14 parties that you can stipulate to changes in due dates
`15 1 through 3. I would hope parties can work that out
`16 between them. As to the due date 7, which is the oral
`17 hearing date, that is very hard for us to reschedule.
`18 So if you do have a problem and you find out about it
`19 early, it would be a little bit easier. And we do
`20 expect lead counsel to be at the hearing.
`21 MS. ELLISON: Understood. Thank you.
`22 MR. WEINSTEIN: Understood.
`23 JUDGE GREEN: It's my understanding that only
`24 patent owner filed a list of proposed motions. So
`25 let's start there. The first motion is a motion to
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`1 Before Administrative Patent Judges
`2 Judge Green
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` APPEARANCES:
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`3 4
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`5 6
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` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX, PLLC
`7 BY: ELDORA L. ELLISON, Ph.D., ESQUIRE
`8 ROBERT GREENE STERNE, ESQUIRE
`9 1100 New York Avenue NW.
`10 Washington, D.C. 20005
`11 202-371-2600
`12 eellison@skgf.com
`13 Representing the Petitioners
`14
`15
`16 JONES DAY
`17 BY: DAVID MAIORANA, ESQUIRE
`18 MICHAEL WEINSTEIN, ESQUIRE
`19 North Point
`20 901 Lakeside Avenue
`21 Cleveland, Ohio 44114-1190
`22 (216) 586-7499
`23 dmaiorana@jonesday.com
`24 JUDGE GREEN: Good morning. This is
`25 Judge Green. I also have (inaudible) on the line with
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`Page 3
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`1 me. This is the initial conference call in IDR 2013
`2 00505 and IDR 2013 00509. I would like to start with
`3 a roll call. Who do I have for Petitioner?
`4 MS. ELLISON: Good morning, Your Honor. This
`5 is Eldora Ellison from Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox.
`6 I have with me Robert Greene Sterne, also from Sterne
`7 Kessler. We also have a court reporter on the line,
`8 Your Honor.
`9 JUDGE GREEN: Thank you. And you will file
`10 the transcript in due course?
`11 MS. ELLISON: Yes, Your Honor.
`12 JUDGE GREEN: And who do I have for patent
`13 owner?
`14 MR. MAIORANA: Good morning, Your Honor.
`15 This is David Maiorana. I'm from Jones Day on behalf
`16 of the patent owner, Proctor & Gamble, and I'm joined
`17 by my colleague, Michael Weinstein.
`18 JUDGE GREEN: Good morning. I would like to
`19 start with a few initial issues. Have there been any
`20 settlement discussions?
`21 MS. ELLISON: Not to my knowledge, Your
`22 Honor.
`23 JUDGE GREEN: Patent owner, is your
`24 understanding any different?
`25 MR. WEINSTEIN: Well, there have been
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`Page 5
`1 amend, and my understanding that's only a possibility
`2 at this point.
`3 MR. WEINSTEIN: That's right, Your Honor. We
`4 just wanted to preserve the ability to do so when our
`5 motion to amend would be due in May.
`6 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. I will remind you that
`7 you need to request a conference call, and if you
`8 decide to go that way, I suggest looking at the Idle
`9 Free case, that's IPR 2012 00027, and in particular,
`10 Papers 26 through 66.
`11 And then the other proposed motion was the
`12 protective order. I understand -- well, first, I just
`13 want, currently there is no protective order in the
`14 case. The board's preference is the default
`15 protective order. If the parties agree to changes,
`16 those changes could be put to the protective order
`17 that -- well, both protective orders have to be filed
`18 with the Board, but any changes that you make to
`19 default that protective order have to be red lined in
`20 the copy that you filed.
`21 The other thing that I would caution parties
`22 is, with protective orders and confidential
`23 information, please keep redactions to a minimum. The
`24 information cannot be both be kept confidential and
`25 used in a filed petition, and you may want to also
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`1 consider other ways to present the evidence, such as
`2 charts or summaries or other things.
`3 And the Board just will not issue two final
`4 decisions when it's confidential and one that's
`5 public. The public interest in the transparency is
`6 something that we're very interested in.
`7 Anything else that you want to talk about at
`8 this point, patent owner?
`9 MR. WEINSTEIN: No, Your Honor. We
`10 understand. With respect to the PO, we appreciate
`11 your guidance.
`12 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. Petitioner, is there
`13 anything you would like to discuss?
`14 MS. ELLISON: Yes, I just want a
`15 clarification on one issue, Your Honor. We understand
`16 that parties may file motions for supplemental
`17 information within one month from institution of
`18 trial, which takes us to March 12. Is specific prior
`19 authorization for that required, or are we all
`20 automatically authorized to file a motion for
`21 supplemental information?
`22 JUDGE GREEN: You know, I haven't looked at
`23 that rule that recently. I'll -- give me one second.
`24 MS. ELLISON: Certainly.
`25 (Pause in proceedings.)
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`Page 7
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`1 JUDGE GREEN: I just looked at the rule, and
`2 a request for authorization is required.
`3 MS. ELLISON: Okay. In that case, we'd like
`4 to request authorization, please.
`5 JUDGE GREEN: And what is the nature of --
`6 MS. ELLISON: I'm sorry.
`7 JUDGE GREEN: What's the nature of the
`8 supplemental information?
`9 MS. ELLISON: It would be additional
`10 information that supports our obviousness challenges
`11 to the patents.
`12 JUDGE GREEN: Patent owner, do you have any
`13 issues with that or --
`14 MR. WEINSTEIN: Well, it's hard to say, Your
`15 Honor, with that vague of a description. I think we
`16 would want to see some more specifics about what it is
`17 that they want to submit before we could take a
`18 position on it, I suppose. I mean additional
`19 information regarding obviousness challenges doesn't
`20 really help us in terms of making a determination on
`21 that.
`22 JUDGE GREEN: Petitioner, why do you need to
`23 file this information now and how come it wasn't filed
`24 with the petition?
`25 MS. ELLISON: Well, Your Honor, one of the
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`Page 8
`1 reasons why I asked whether specific authorization was
`2 required is because we're actually still making a
`3 determination as to whether we're going to file such
`4 information. And in the interest of preserving work
`5 product at this point, I'd rather not disclose in
`6 advance unnecessarily what -- with great specificity
`7 what that information would be. But I wanted to ask
`8 for the authorization given the timing of the deadline
`9 for the switches on the 12th, which is next Wednesday.
`10 So in an effort to avoid needing to have a
`11 further conference call on this, I thought I would ask
`12 for the authorization at this point.
`13 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. Give me one second. I'm
`14 going to confer with the panel.
`15 MS. ELLISON: Thank you.
`16 (Pause in proceedings.)
`17 JUDGE GREEN: I've conferred with the panel,
`18 and I think at this point we would prefer to have an
`19 additional conference call once you know whether or
`20 not you're going to file such information. I
`21 understand the time line is tight, but the panel can
`22 be available and we can make a determination when you
`23 decide -- when you're sure that you're going to file
`24 the motion.
`25 MS. ELLISON: Okay. That's fine.
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`Page 9
`1 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. Anything else, patent
`2 owner?
`3 MR. WEINSTEIN: No, Your Honor. Thank you
`4 very much for your time.
`5 JUDGE GREEN: And anything else for
`6 Petitioner?
`7 MS. ELLISON: No, Your Honor. Thank you.
`8 JUDGE GREEN: Okay. Thank you. Call is
`9 adjourned.
`10 (The proceedings concluded at 10:13 a.m.)
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`1 C E R T I F I C A T E
`2 I do hereby certify that I am a Notary Public in
`3 good standing, that the aforesaid testimony was taken
`4 before me, pursuant to notice, at the time and place
`5 indicated; that said deponent was by me duly sworn to
`6 tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
`7 truth; that the testimony of said deponent was
`8 correctly recorded in machine shorthand by me and
`9 thereafter transcribed under my supervision with
`10 computer-aided transcription; that the deposition is a
`11 true and correct record of the testimony given by the
`12 witness; and that I am neither of counsel nor kin to
`13 any party in said action, nor interested in the
`14 outcome thereof.
`15 WITNESS my hand and official seal this
`16 10th day of March, 2014.
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23 __________________________________
`24 Nancy J. Martin, CSR, RMR, Notary
`25
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`[& - further]
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`1201 1:23
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`2
`20005 1:23 2:10
`2012 5:9
`2013 3:1,2
`2014 1:13 10:16
`202-371-2600 2:11
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`a.m. 1:16 9:10
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`action 10:13
`additional 7:9,18
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`adjourned 9:9
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`agree 5:15
`aided 10:10
`amend 5:1,5
`appeal 1:2
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`approximately 1:16
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`atlantic 1:22
`authorization 6:19
`7:2,4 8:1,8,12
`authorized 6:20
`automatically 6:20
`available 8:22
`avenue 2:9,20
`avoid 8:10
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`beginning 1:16
`behalf 3:15
`bit 4:19
`board 1:2 5:18 6:3
`board's 5:14
`bring 4:2
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`c 10:1,1
`call 3:1,3 5:7 8:11
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`carolina 1:20
`case 1:3 5:9,14 7:3
`caution 5:21
`certainly 6:24
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`certified 1:18
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`d.c. 1:20,23 2:10
`date 1:15 4:16,17
`dates 4:14
`david 2:17 3:15
`day 2:16 3:15 10:16
`dba 1:6
`deadline 8:8
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`decisions 6:4
`default 5:14,19
`deponent 10:5,7
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`deposition 10:10
`description 7:15
`determination 7:20
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`different 3:24
`directed 4:1
`disclose 8:5
`discuss 6:13
`discussions 3:20 4:1
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`dmaiorana 2:23
`due 3:10 4:14,16 5:5
`duly 10:5
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`e 10:1,1
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`easier 4:19
`eellison 2:12
`effort 8:10
`eldora 2:7 3:5
`ellison 2:7 3:4,5,11
`3:21 4:9,21 6:14,24
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`esquire 2:7,8,17,18
`evidence 6:1
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`eye 1:23
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`find 4:18
`fine 8:25
`first 4:25 5:12
`fox 2:6 3:5
`free 5:9
`friday 1:13
`further 8:11
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`[gamble - r]
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`g
`gamble 1:9 3:16
`give 6:23 8:13
`given 8:8 10:11
`go 5:8
`going 8:3,14,20,23
`goldstein 2:6 3:5
`good 2:24 3:4,14,18
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`great 8:6
`green 2:2,24,25 3:9
`3:12,18,23 4:7,10
`4:13,23 5:6 6:12,22
`7:1,5,7,12,22 8:13
`8:17 9:1,5,8
`greene 2:8 3:6
`guidance 6:11
`h
`hand 10:15
`hard 4:17 7:14
`hearing 4:17,20
`held 1:15
`help 7:20
`honor 3:4,8,11,14
`3:22 4:9,11 5:3 6:9
`6:15 7:15,25 9:3,7
`hope 4:15
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`idle 5:8
`idr 3:1,2
`idrs 4:3
`inaudible 2:25
`indicated 10:5
`information 5:23,24
`6:17,21 7:8,10,19
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`initial 3:1,19
`institution 6:17
`interest 6:5 8:4
`interested 6:6 10:13
`interparties 4:2
`interparty 4:6
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`ipr 1:3 5:9
`issue 6:3,15
`issues 3:19 4:8 7:13
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`j 1:17 10:24
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`jones 2:16 3:15
`jonesday.com 2:23
`judge 2:2,24,25 3:9
`3:12,18,23 4:7,10
`4:13,23 5:6 6:12,22
`7:1,5,7,12,22 8:13
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`judges 2:1
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`keep 5:23
`kept 5:24
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`kin 10:12
`know 6:22 8:19
`knowledge 3:21
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`l 2:7
`lakeside 2:20
`lead 4:20
`line 2:25 3:7 8:21
`lined 5:19
`list 4:24
`litigation 4:3,4
`little 4:19
`looked 6:22 7:1
`looking 5:8
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`machine 10:8
`maiorana 2:17 3:14
`3:15
`making 7:20 8:2
`march 1:13 6:18
`10:16
`martin 1:17 10:24
`maryland 1:19
`mean 7:18
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`merit 1:18
`michael 2:18 3:17
`mid 1:22
`minimum 5:23
`month 6:17
`morning 2:24 3:4,14
`3:18
`motion 4:25,25 5:5
`5:11 6:20 8:24
`motions 4:24 6:16
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`nancy 1:17 10:24
`national 1:22
`nature 7:5,7
`need 5:7 7:22
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`neither 10:12
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`north 1:20 2:19
`notary 1:19 10:2,24
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`o
`obviousness 7:10,19
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`official 10:15
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`7:3 8:13,25 9:1,8
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`owner 1:10 3:13,16
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`papers 5:10
`particular 5:9
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`parties 4:5,14,15
`5:15,21 6:16
`party 10:13
`patent 1:1,2,4,10 2:1
`3:12,16,23 4:10,24
`6:8 7:12 9:1
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`4:8 6:12 7:22 9:6
`petitioners 2:13
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`po 6:10
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`8:5,12,18
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`8:16 9:10
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`protective 5:12,13
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`public 1:19 6:5,5
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`pursuant 10:4
`put 5:16
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`trial 1:2 6:18
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`unilever 1:6
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`vague 7:15
`veritext 1:22
`virginia 1:19
`vs 1:8
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`want 5:13,25 6:7,14
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`witness 10:12,15
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`york 2:9
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`really 7:20
`realtime 1:18
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`scheduling 4:8
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`stenographically
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`sworn 10:5
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