` B E F O R E T H E P A T E N T T R I A L A N D A P P E A L B O A R D
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`M E D T R O N I C , I N C . , )
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` P e t i t i o n e r , )
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` v s . )
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`N U V A S I V E , I N C . , )
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` P a t e n t o w n e r . )
`_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ )
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` V I D E O T A P E D D E P O S I T I O N O F S T E V E N D E R I D D E R
` T A K E N O N B E H A L F O F T H E N U V A S I V E , I N C .
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` ( S t a r t i n g t i m e o f t h e d e p o s i t i o n : 1 : 0 9 p . m . )
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`C o u r t R e p o r t e r :
`B o b b i e J . H i b b l e r , L C R / C S R
`T e n n e s s e e L C R # 0 2 9
`C a l i f o r n i a C S R # 1 2 4 7 5
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`J o b N o . 1 8 3 9 8 5 0 C
`P A G E S 1 - 6 0
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`NUVASIVE 2024
`Medtronic v. NuVasive
`IPR2013-00506
`IPR2013-00507
`IPR2013-00508
`
`
`
` EXAMINATION INDEX
`
`STEVEN DERIDDER
`
` BY MR. NELSON . . . . . . . . . . 6
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` BY MR. SCHWARTZ . . . . . . . . . 57
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` EXHIBIT INDEX
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`EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`EXHIBIT NUVA-2109 DRAWING OF
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` BOOMERANG CAGE 34
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`(The original exhibits were retained by the
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`court reporter to be attached to the original
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`and copies of the transcript.)
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`MEDTRONIC, INC., )
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` )
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` Petitioner, )
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` ) CT-01579-01
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` vs. )
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` )
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`NUVASIVE, INC., )
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` )
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` Patent owner. )
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` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF STEVEN DERIDDER,
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`produced, sworn and examined on April 17, 2014,
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`between the hours of one o'clock and three
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`o'clock in the afternoon of that day, at the
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`offices of Alpha Reporting Corporation, 236
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`Adams Avenue, Memphis, Tennessee 38103, before
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`Bobbie J. Hibbler, (TN), Licensed Certified
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`Reporter, (CA), Certified Shorthand Reporter, in
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`a certain cause now pending in the United States
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`Patent and Trademark Office, Before the Patent
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`Trial and Appeal Board, between MEDTRONIC, INC.,
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`Petitioner, vs. NUVASIVE, INC., Patent Owner; on
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`behalf of NuVasive, Inc.
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`F O R T H E P E T I T I O N E R :
` J E F F E . S C H W A R T Z , E S Q .
` F o x R o t h s c h i l d , L L P
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` j e s c h w a r t z @ f o x r o t h s c h i l d . c o m
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`F O R T H E P A T E N T O W N E R :
` S T U A R T N E L S O N , E S Q .
` F i s h & R i c h a r d s o n , P . C .
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` 6 0 S o u t h S i x t h S t r e e t
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` s n e l s o n @ f r . c o m
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`A l s o p r e s e n t :
` B l a i n e C o l e m a n , V i d e o g r a p h e r
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` IT IS HEREBY STIPULATED AND AGREED by 01:12
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`and between counsel for the Petitioner and 01:12
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`counsel for the Patent Owner that this 01:12
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`deposition may be taken in shorthand by Bobbie 01:12
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`J. Hibbler, LCR/CSR, a Licensed Certified 01:12
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`Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and 01:12
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`afterwards transcribed into typewriting; and the 01:12
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`signature of the witness is not expressly 01:12
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`reserved. 01:12
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` * * * * * 01:12
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` (Starting time of the deposition: 1:09 p.m.) 01:12
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We're on the record 01:12
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`at 1:09 p.m., on April 17, 2014. This is the 01:14
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`video recorded deposition of Steve DeRidder. 01:14
`
` My name is Blaine Coleman here with 01:14
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`our court reporter, Bobbie Hibbler. We are here 01:14
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`from Veritext Legal Solutions. 01:14
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` And the deposition is being held at 01:14
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`Alpha Reporting Corporation in Memphis, 01:14
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`Tennessee. 01:14
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` The caption of this case is 01:14
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`Medtronic versus NuVasive. Case Number 01:14
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`CT-01579-01. 01:14
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` Would counsel please identify 01:14
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`themselves for the record. 01:14
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` MR. NELSON: This is Stuart Nelson of 01:14
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`Fish & Richardson representing the patent owner, 01:14
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`NuVasive. 01:14
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Jeff Schwartz from Fox 01:14
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`Rothschild representing Medtronic. And with me 01:14
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`is Jason Piche. 01:14
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Would the court 01:14
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`reporter please swear in the deponent. 01:14
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` STEVEN DERIDDER, 01:14
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`Having been first duly sworn, was examined and 01:14
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`testified as follows: 01:14
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` EXAMINATION 01:14
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:14
`
` Q. Good afternoon. Could you please state 01:14
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`your full name for the record? 01:15
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` A. Steven Dale DeRidder. 01:15
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` Q. Thank you, Mr. DeRidder. Do you know 01:15
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`why you're here today? 01:15
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` A. I do. 01:15
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` Q. Why? 01:15
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` A. To testify to my declaration. 01:15
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` Q. Okay. And have you been part of a 01:15
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`deposition before? 01:15
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` A. I have. 01:15
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` Q. So you kind of know generally how it 01:15
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`goes. I'll ask some questions. There may be 01:15
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`some objections. And if the attorney tells you 01:15
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`do not answer, you don't answer. But if he just 01:15
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`objects, and if you understand the question you 01:15
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`can still answer. 01:15
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` A. I understand. 01:15
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` Q. Is there any reason that you might not 01:15
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`be able to give true and complete answers today? 01:15
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` A. There is not. 01:15
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` Q. You're not on any medication that might 01:15
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`prevent you from being able to give true and 01:15
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`complete answers? 01:15
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` A. None -- no. 01:15
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` Q. Do you understand that you're under 01:15
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`oath? 01:15
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` A. I do. 01:15
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` Q. Do you know what that means? 01:15
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` A. I do. 01:15
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` Q. What does that mean? 01:15
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` A. The result could be perjury, which is 01:15
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`lying under oath. 01:16
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` Q. Who do you work for? 01:16
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` A. I work for Medtronic. 01:16
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` Q. Are you here today as a representative 01:16
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`of Medtronic? 01:16
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` A. I am. 01:16
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` Q. Did you spend any time preparing for 01:16
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`this deposition today? 01:16
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` A. I did. 01:16
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` Q. When did you do that? 01:16
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` A. Yesterday. 01:16
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` Q. How long did you spend? 01:16
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` A. I would say just over -- between two 01:16
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`and a half to three hours. 01:16
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` Q. I'm guessing you met with counsel? 01:16
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` A. I did. 01:16
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` Q. Did you do anything to prepare for this 01:16
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`deposition other than meet with counsel? 01:16
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` A. No. 01:16
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` Q. Where did you go to school? 01:16
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` A. You're talking about college; right? 01:16
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` Q. Yeah, college. 01:16
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` A. Okay. I got my AA degree at Heald 01:16
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`Institute of Technology in Santa Clara, 01:16
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`California. 01:16
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` Q. And you had some additional training 01:17
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`after that; correct? 01:17
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` A. I've had -- yeah, I would say extensive 01:17
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`training for the job that I hold. But I have 01:17
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`been -- I have attended other schools as well. 01:17
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` Q. Could you kind of give me the one 01:17
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`minute version of that training and schools? 01:17
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:17
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` A. I went one year to Travecca Nazarene 01:17
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`College in Nashville, Tennessee. I went a 01:17
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`couple of years to Evergreen Valley College in 01:17
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`California just to take some -- what do you call 01:17
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`those -- it's regular courses, like history. I 01:17
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`can't think of what they're called. And then I 01:17
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`also attended some time at San Jose Bible 01:17
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`College, which is now -- changed its name. I 01:18
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`can't remember the name of the college right 01:18
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`now. It's -- it's someone's name. 01:18
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:18
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` Q. Sure. 01:18
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` A. That's the official colleges I went to. 01:18
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` Q. Okay. What does it mean to be an 01:18
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`expert in geometric dimensioning and 01:18
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`tolerancing? 01:18
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:18
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`Foundation. 01:18
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` A. It means that through extensive study 01:18
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`and meeting with board members they recognized 01:18
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`me as a person who is capable of providing 01:18
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`expert -- expert interpretation of drawings, 01:18
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`mechanical design drawings as well as 01:18
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`application of the science of GD&T. I was 01:18
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`actually invited to become part of the board. 01:19
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`But you have to be sponsored by a company, and 01:19
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`at the time my company was laying me off. 01:19
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:19
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` Q. Not interested in sponsoring Ray Ban, 01:19
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`huh? 01:19
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:19
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`Relevance. 01:19
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` MR. NELSON: Sorry? 01:19
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Relevance. 01:19
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:19
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` Q. Are ordinary engineers experts in 01:19
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`geometric tolerancing? 01:19
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` A. No. 01:19
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` Q. It's a higher skill level than just 01:19
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`being an engineer; right? 01:19
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` A. It is a desired skill but one in which 01:19
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`very few engineers master. 01:19
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` Q. Are ordinary surgeons typically experts 01:19
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`in geometric dimensioning and tolerancing? 01:19
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to the form -- 01:19
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` A. Can you rephrase that. 01:19
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:19
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`Foundation. Relevance. 01:19
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:19
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` Q. Are ordinary surgeons typically experts 01:19
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`in geometric dimensioning and tolerancing? 01:19
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` A. No. 01:20
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` Q. Are you an expert in geometric 01:20
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`dimensioning and tolerancing? 01:20
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` A. Yes. 01:20
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` Q. Could you describe your current 01:20
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`position at Medtronic? 01:20
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` A. Currently I work in a department called 01:20
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`worldwide rapid innovation. And typically my 01:20
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`job consist of fielding requests from our sales 01:20
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`force that a surgeon has requested a special 01:20
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`instrument for a procedure or a surgeon might 01:20
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`have an idea. They bring it to the company. I 01:20
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`might be brought in to help develop that idea 01:20
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`and bring it to market, or I might just be part 01:20
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`of a team that internally we develop new 01:20
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`instruments and/or implants for spinal fusion 01:20
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`and surgery. 01:21
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` Q. What would be your role on the team for 01:21
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`developing a new implant? 01:21
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form and 01:21
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`foundation. Mr. DeRidder, when I'm objecting 01:21
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`you need to just pause and let me object. 01:21
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` THE WITNESS: All right. 01:21
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form and 01:21
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`foundation. 01:21
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` A. I am mainly responsible for design. 01:21
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:21
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` Q. Okay. Could you elaborate a little bit 01:21
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`more on being responsible for design? 01:21
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:21
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` A. I'm instrumental in establishing 01:21
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`prototypes, so forming ideas, helping those 01:21
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`ideas come to life, if you will, and then 01:21
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`documenting those for the company. 01:21
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:21
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` Q. The position that you have now is that 01:21
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`the same position that you had in 1999 to 2001 01:21
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`timeframe? 01:22
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` A. It is not. 01:22
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` Q. What was the position that you had 01:22
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`then? 01:22
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` A. I was a associate product development 01:22
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`engineer. 01:22
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` Q. Could you describe the difference 01:22
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`between your current position and the position 01:22
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`you had then? 01:22
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` A. The associate product development 01:22
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`engineer works under the instruction of the 01:22
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`senior level product development engineer. And 01:22
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`they are primarily responsible for helping or 01:22
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`assisting the senior level engineer design 01:22
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`product and get them to market. The current 01:22
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`position I'm in is not even a product 01:22
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`development engineer. I have been specialized 01:22
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`to focus strictly on design and to assist other 01:22
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`engineers in their efforts as well, a mentoring 01:23
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`position. 01:23
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` Q. In the 1999 to 2001 timeframe was there 01:24
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`an expert at Medtronic like you who helped you 01:24
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`with your work at that time? 01:24
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:24
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`Relevance. 01:24
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` A. Not like me, no. 01:24
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:24
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` Q. Why is that? 01:24
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` A. Because I had a number of years of 01:24
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`experience designing product but not in the 01:24
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`medical industry. But my main focus on coming 01:24
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`to the company was to be used as a designer and 01:24
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`to bring products from ideas to market. 01:24
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` Q. Okay. Would you consider yourself an 01:24
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`expert CAD designer? 01:24
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` A. I would. 01:25
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` Q. Would you consider yourself an expert 01:25
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`designer of spinal fusion implants? 01:25
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` A. I would say I'm highly knowledgeable of 01:25
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`the subject. 01:25
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` Q. Are ordinary engineers and surgeons 01:25
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`expert CAD designers? 01:25
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:25
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`Relevance -- 01:25
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` A. No. 01:25
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: When I'm speaking please 01:25
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`just hold on. Objection to form. Relevance. 01:25
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`Foundation. 01:25
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:25
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` Q. I'm not sure we got the answer on the 01:25
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`record so I will ask again. Are ordinary 01:25
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`engineers and surgeons expert CAD designers? 01:25
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Same objection. 01:25
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` A. No, they're not. 01:25
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:25
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` Q. So I'd like to talk a little bit about 01:25
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`some things in your declaration. Who asked you 01:25
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`to consider what one of ordinary skill in the 01:25
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`art would have understood from the prior art to 01:25
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`the 334 patent? 01:25
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` A. Could I have a copy of my declaration 01:25
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`so I could see what you're referring to? 01:26
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` Q. I am comfortable with that. 01:26
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` MR. NELSON: No reason to mark it as an 01:26
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`exhibit, is there? 01:26
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: No. Not unless you want 01:26
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`it to be an exhibit. Actually I think it's 01:26
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`already marked as an exhibit. 01:26
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:26
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` Q. Sir, you've been handed what's been 01:26
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`marked as MSD 1002. In Paragraph 5 there's a 01:26
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`statement that you were asked to consider what 01:26
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`one of ordinary skill in the art would have 01:26
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`understood from the prior art to the 334 01:26
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`patent. I was just wondering who asked you to 01:27
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`consider that? 01:27
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` A. My legal counsel. 01:27
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` Q. Okay. What did you do to consider it? 01:27
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` A. I reviewed the materials that they 01:27
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`asked me to review. 01:27
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` Q. What were those materials? 01:27
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` A. Patents, and drawings, and graphics. 01:27
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` Q. Did you talk to anyone? Did you talk 01:27
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`to anyone as part of your review? 01:27
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` A. Other than my legal counsel, no. 01:27
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` Q. Did you talk to George Frey? 01:27
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` A. Not for this. 01:28
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` Q. Maybe I should take a step back. Do 01:28
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`you know George Frey? 01:28
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` A. Pronounces "Fry". 01:28
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` Q. Frey? 01:28
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` A. I do know him, yes. 01:28
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` Q. Who is George Frey? 01:28
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` A. George Frey is a surgeon in Colorado 01:28
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`that was used as a key opinion leader for some 01:28
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`products that we put out with his help. 01:28
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` Q. What do you mean by key opinion leader? 01:28
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` A. Well being that he's a surgeon he's 01:28
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`familiar with what the surgeon's needs are. We 01:28
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`relied on him to give us guidance on every 01:28
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`aspect of the design both implants and 01:28
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`instruments. 01:29
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` Q. So he was someone that you -- strike 01:29
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`that. 01:29
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` Dr. Frey was one of the inventors who 01:29
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`worked on the Frey patent with you; is that 01:29
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`correct? 01:29
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:29
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` A. He is one of the inventors, yes. 01:29
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:29
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` Q. Did you talk to George Frey as part of 01:29
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`your consideration of one of ordinary skill in 01:29
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`the art would have understood from the prior art 01:29
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`to the 334 patent? 01:29
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` A. No, I did not. 01:29
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` Q. Why not? 01:29
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` A. I saw no reason to. 01:29
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` Q. It sounded like you were saying that 01:29
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`you did talk to him about something else; is 01:29
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`that correct? 01:29
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:29
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`Characterization. 01:29
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` A. My communication with George Frey was 01:29
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`back in the 2001 timeframe. 01:30
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:30
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` Q. Quite a while back? 01:30
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` A. Yes. 01:30
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` Q. Is Dr. Frey someone who you respect the 01:30
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`opinions of with respect to the subject matter 01:30
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`of the Frey patent publication? 01:30
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:30
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`Foundation. 01:30
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` A. I have no opinion on that. 01:30
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:30
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` Q. You have no opinion on whether he's 01:30
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`knowledgeable on subject matter of those 01:30
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`implants? 01:30
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` A. I was not involved directly as an 01:30
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`associate with the conversation that took place 01:30
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`between the senior product development engineers 01:30
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`and Dr. Frey. So I have no opinion on his 01:30
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`statements. 01:30
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` Q. You're being handed a document that's 01:31
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`been marked Exhibit MSD 1013. Do you recognize 01:31
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`this document? 01:31
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` A. I believe I recognize a picture on the 01:31
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`document. 01:31
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` Q. Do you know what this document is? 01:31
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` A. Yes. 01:31
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` Q. What is it? 01:31
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` A. It's a patent. 01:31
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` Q. Have you seen this patent before. 01:31
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` A. I can't be sure. I may have seen an 01:32
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`illustration from it. 01:32
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` Q. In your declaration you refer to 01:32
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`something as the 334 patent. Is this the 334 01:32
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`patent? 01:32
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` A. It appears so. Yes. 01:32
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` Q. When you consider what one of ordinary 01:32
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`skill in the art would have understood from the 01:32
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`prior art to the 334 patent did you actually 01:32
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`review the prior -- did you actually review the 01:32
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`334 patent? 01:32
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` A. Not the entire patent. 01:32
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` Q. Did you review it briefly? 01:32
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` A. I was shown -- I recognize some of the 01:33
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`illustrations in here. 01:33
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` Q. Why did you review the 334 patent 01:33
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`illustrations? 01:33
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:33
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`Characterization. 01:33
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` A. I was handed them or shown them by my 01:33
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`counsel. 01:33
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:33
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` Q. Okay. You've been handed a document 01:33
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`that's been marked as Exhibit MSD 1013. 01:33
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` A. Okay. 01:33
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` Q. But you've also been handed more 01:33
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`recently a newer document that's been marked as 01:34
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`Exhibit MSD 1003. Do you know what Exhibit MSD 01:34
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`1003 is? 01:34
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` A. Not unless you tell me. There's two 01:34
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`documents here. 01:34
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` Q. In Paragraph 5 of your declaration you 01:34
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`reference U.S. Patent Application Publication 01:34
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`Number 2002/0165550 to Frey. 01:34
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` A. Yes. 01:34
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` Q. Is this the same document that you're 01:34
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`referencing? 01:34
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` A. Yes. This is the patent in reference. 01:34
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` Q. So do you know what this document MSD 01:34
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`1003 is? 01:34
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` A. This top document I do recognize it. 01:35
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`Yes. 01:35
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` Q. You're free to take the clip off if you 01:35
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`want to. I think if you take a look you will 01:35
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`see that it's a rather thick patent 01:35
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`application. The first half is all the figures 01:35
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`and the second half would be the text of the 01:35
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`document. But if you wouldn't mind taking a 01:35
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`quick look to see if you see anything that makes 01:35
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`you think that that's not the case, please let 01:35
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`me know. 01:35
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` A. Okay. I think we're fine. 01:35
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` Q. When you consider what one of ordinary 01:35
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`skill in the art would have understood from the 01:35
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`prior art to the 334 patent, did you review the 01:36
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`Frey patent application? 01:36
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` A. I did review this patent, yes. 01:36
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` Q. Why did you review it? 01:36
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` A. I was asked to. 01:36
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` Q. Okay. Did you -- strike that please. 01:36
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` Was your review of this Frey patent 01:36
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`application helpful? 01:36
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` MR. SCHWARTZ: Objection to form. 01:36
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` A. Not really. 01:36
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`BY MR. NELSON: 01:36
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` Q. Why not? 01:36
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` A. I was familiar with it. 01:36
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` Q. Why are you familiar with it? 01:36
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` A. Because I'm a named inventor on it. 01:36
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` Q. Did you spend a fair bit of time with 01:36
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`this subject matter at some point?