PNY Exhibit 1008
`PNY Technologies, Inc. v. Phison Electronics Corp.
` IPR2013-00472
`
`
`PNY Technologies, Inc. v. Phison Electronics Corp.
` IPR2013-00472
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORR, et al.
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
` ORAL DEPOSITION OF STEVEN CARL VISSER,
`
`produced as a witness at the instance of the
`
`Petitioner, and duly sworn, was taken in the
`
`above—styled and numbered cause on the 23rd of July,
`
`2014,
`
`from 9:11 a.m.
`
`to 3:49 p.m., before Daniel
`
`J. Skur, Notary Public and Certified shorthand
`
`Reporter in and for the State of Texas, reported by
`
`stenographic means, at the offices of Fish &
`
`Richardson, 1717 Main Street, Suite 5000, Dallas,
`
`10
`
`Texas, pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil
`
`
`
`Procedure.
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 2
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS COR.P., et al.
`
`
`
`
`
`A P P E A R A N C E 8
`
`FOR PETITIONER:
`
`MCCARTER & ENGLISH, LLP
`
`Four Gateway Center
`100 Mulberry Street
`Newark, New Jersey 07102
`973.639.6987
`
`BY: Mark E. Nikolsky, Esq.
`mnikolsky@mccarter.com
`
`Timothy P. Homlish, Esq.
`thomlish@mccarter.com
`
`
`
`10
`
`ll
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
`
`FISH & RICHARDSON PC
`
`500 Arguello Street
`Suite 500
`
`Redwood City, California 94063
`650.839.5070
`
`BY: David M. Barkan, Esq.
`barkan@fr.com
`
`
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page:3
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS COR.P., at al.
`
`PROCEEDINGS
`
`EXAMINATION OF STEVEN CARL VISSER:
`
`
`
`BY MR. NIKOLSKY
`
`BY MR. BARKAN
`
`U‘:
`
`CORRECTIONS AND SIGNATURE
`
`152
`
`
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 4
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
`STEVEN CARL VISSER
`
`July 23, 2014
`
`NUMBER
`
`DESCRIPTION
`
`PAGE
`
`PNY 1001
`
`United States Patent
`
`Number 7,518,879
`
`11 pages
`
`PNY 1003
`
`United States Patent
`
`Number 7,352,601 B1
`
`25 pages
`
`PNY 1006
`
`United States Patent
`
`Number 2004/0027809 A1
`
`52 pages
`
`34
`
`88
`
`58
`
`93
`
`15
`
`61
`
`
`
`Ax'X
`
`C
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`1'7
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`PNY 1007
`
`Phison
`2008
`
`Phison
`2010
`
`Phison
`2012
`
`Excerpt From the American
`Heritage Dictionary
`5 pages
`
`Declaration of Steve
`
`15
`
`Visser
`
`30 pages
`
`Phison
`2009
`
`Curriculum Vitae of
`Mr. Visser
`
`26 pages
`
`Excerpt From Webster's
`New World Dictionary
`5 pages
`
`United States Patent
`
`127
`
`Number 2004/0259423 A1
`9 pages
`
`
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 5
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`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`DEPOSITION EXHIBITS
`
`NUMBER
`
`DESCRIPTION
`
`MARKED
`
`Phison
`
`2013
`
`Case
`IPR20l4-
`
`00150
`
`Paper 8
`Decision
`
`United States Patent
`
`139
`
`Number 6,829,672 B1
`
`17 pages
`
`Case IPR20l4-00150 Paper
`8 Decision Institution of
`
`77
`
`Inter Partes Review
`
`20 pages
`
`—-oOo——
`
`./F
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 6
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`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS COR.P., et a1.
`
`PROCEEDINGS
`
`(July 23, 2014 at 9:11 a.m.)
`
`MR. NIKOLSKY: This is Mark Nikolsky
`
`09:11
`
`firm Mccarter & English on behalf of the
`
`and my associate Tim Homlish from the law
`
`09:11
`
`Petitioner, PNY Technologies,
`
`Inc.
`
`MR. BARKAN: David Barkan of Fish &
`
`Richardson on behalf of the Patent Owner,
`
`Phison Electronics.
`
`STEVEN CARL VISSER,
`
`having been duly sworn,
`
`testified as follows:
`
`EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. NIKOLSKY:
`
`09:11
`
`Q
`
`Mr. Visser,
`
`thank you for being here
`
`today. Did I pronounce your last name properly?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`before?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`09:11
`
`Yes.
`
`Have you had your deposition taken
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`So you're familiar with the process.
`
`I
`
`would just tell you that occasionally your counsel
`
`may raise objections to some questions that I might
`
`ask you.
`
`I would ask you to allow him to state his
`
`09:12
`
`objection and then, unless he asks you not to answer
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 7
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`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., at al.
`
`a question,
`
`to go ahead and try to answer the best
`
`that you can.
`
`If any question that I ask you is
`
`unclear or something that requires clarification,
`
`please ask me that.
`
`So let's start with your address for
`
`the record. What's your current address?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`2472 Gala Court.
`
`And your full name for the record?
`
`Steven Carl Visser.
`
`And, Mr. Visser, when did you first
`
`become involved in these proceedings?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`It was last fall, August or September.
`
`Okay. And who first contacted you to
`
`become involved in these proceedings?
`
`A
`
`It was a headhunter that does expert
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`'7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16 witness.
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Were you working with any
`
`attorneys at this law firm, Fish & Richardson?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No,
`
`I was not.
`
`Okay. Who was the first attorney that
`
`you worked with at this law firm as these
`
`proceedings went on?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`I believe it was Tom, but I'm not sure.
`
`Tom who?
`
`I don't recall.
`
`09:12
`
`09:12
`
`09:12
`
`09:12
`
`09:13
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 8
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Are you testifying as an expert
`
`in these proceedings?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes,
`
`I am.
`
`Okay. And what are you here to testify
`
`(\
`
`09:13
`
`as to today?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`The '879 patent.
`
`And any particular issues with respect
`
`to the '879 patent?
`
`09:13
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`engineering?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes, validity.
`
`Okay. Are you an expert in mechanical
`
`No,
`
`I am not.
`
`Are you an expert in the designgof USB
`
`flash drives?
`
`09:13
`
`A
`
`I have designed a USB flash drive.
`
`I'm
`
`an industrial designer, and therefore would be an
`
`expert.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`How many USB flash drives have
`
`you designed?
`
`O9 : 14
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`One .
`
`Are you an expert in the design of
`
`electrical connectors?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`And what about computer products; are
`
`09:14
`
`you an expert in the design of computer products?
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`-
`
`Page: 9
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`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PI-IISON ELECTRONICS CORP., at al.
`
`A
`
`I have designed several computer
`
`products over my career.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Can you give me some examples?
`
`A touch pad control that went around the
`
`09:14
`
`monitor, a number of cellphones for Samsung, which
`
`are smartphones,
`
`that would fit within the computer
`
`word.
`
`I'm drawing a blank on some of the others
`
`09:15
`
`right now.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`My CV should say.
`
`Sure. What about in the area of
`
`manufacturing; what's your expertise in the area of
`
`manufacturing?
`
`;
`
`A
`
`As an industrial designer, manufacturing
`
`09:15
`
`concerns are involved in every project that I work
`
`on.
`
`How it's going to be made is critical to
`
`developing the design that you have.
`
`Q
`
`What are some of the factors that you
`
`typically encounter from the manufacturing
`
`09:15
`
`perspective?
`
`A
`
`The first one would be selecting the
`
`manufacturing process.
`
`_/“.
`
`09:16
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay. Any other considerations?
`
`Then taking in what you know of that
`
`process as far as its limitations, potentials,
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`opportunities, also looking at the material.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Have you ever been retained as an
`
`expert in any other proceedings, not involving this
`
`proceeding?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`And can you tell me a little bit about
`
`those proceedings?
`
`A
`
`They're listed in my CV. Most recently,
`
`I had a case with Amazon.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`for Kindles.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`lights.
`
`Okay.
`
`Over Kindle,
`
`lights,
`
`lights for cases
`
`That
`
`involved light technology?
`
`Yeah, it involved some little LED
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`In what capacity did you testify
`
`in that case?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`As an expert, as an industrial designer.
`
`Did you opine on issues of infringement?
`
`Yes.
`
`Did you opine on issues of validity?
`
`Yes.
`
`How many patents were at issue in the
`
`case,
`
`if you can recall?
`
`A
`
`I'm not positive, but I believe just
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24;
`
`25
`
`09:16
`
`09:16
`
`09:17
`
`09:17
`
`09:17
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: I 1
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et a1.
`
`Q
`
`One patent. Okay. Are you being paid
`
`for your testimony today?
`
`A
`
`I'm being paid for the time that I spend
`
`09:17
`
`on this —— on this case.
`
`09:18
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`it's $455.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`And how much are you being paid?
`
`I believe it's —— through the agency,
`
`Okay.
`
`The agency takes a cut of that.
`
`Now, without going into issues that may
`
`be privileged between you and your attorney, could
`
`you tell me a little bit about what you did to
`
`prepare for today's deposition?
`
`09:18
`
`A
`
`I reviewed the patent.
`
`I reviewed my,
`
`{i
`
`not report, it's a declaration, and reviewed the
`
`prior art patents.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`meet?
`
`09:18
`
`09 18
`
`Any other documents that you reviewed?
`
`Not that I can think of.
`
`Did you meet with your counsel?
`
`Yes,
`
`I did.
`
`And for about how long roughly did you
`
`Yesterday.
`
`Okay. All day?
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 12
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`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORR, et al.
`
`09:18
`
`09:19
`
`09:19
`
`{E
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`while.
`
`Pretty much.
`
`Which attorney did you meet with?
`
`With Josh and David.
`
`Okay.
`
`I believe also Dan stopped in for a
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And I believe earlier you said
`
`that you had been deposed before, correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`or so times.
`
`;
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's correct.
`
`which case or cases?
`
`I'm not sure of all of them, about five
`
`About five depositions total?
`
`(Witness nods head.)
`
`Okay. Did all of those depositions
`
`relate to your expert testimony in a case?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`what topics?
`
`Can you repeat the question?
`
`What did those depositions relate to,
`
`09:19
`
`A
`
`They were all expert witness cases, with
`
`the exception of when I was 20 years old,
`
`I saw a
`
`car accident and I was deposed in that case.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. We won't go into that one.
`
`How
`
`long ago were those depositions roughly?
`
`09:19
`
`A
`
`I believe the first one was 1999.
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 13
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`09:20
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`And they --
`
`Then the other ones followed suit?
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay. Was there any technology at issue
`
`in those cases?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`All of them.
`
`What kinds of technology?
`
`I'm not sure I can remember all of them
`
`09:20
`
`right now, but the first one was ear plugs.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay.
`
`I'd have to refer to my CV to know which
`
`ones I was deposed in and which ones I was not
`
`deposed in.
`
`09:20
`
`Q
`
`Sure. Understood. Were you ever
`
`declared incompetent as an expert?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No,
`
`I have not been.
`
`Okay. And has any of your prior
`
`testimony been disqualified in the past?
`
`09:20
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No, it has not.
`
`Okay. Have you ever testified for
`
`Phison before?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No,
`
`I have not.
`
`Mr. Visser,
`
`I'm going to hand you a copy
`
`09:21
`
`of what has been marked in these proceedings
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 14
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`Phison —— Exhibit Phison 2008.
`
`It's his
`
`declaration. And also Phison 2009 which accompanies
`
`Phison 2008, and we have copies for counsel.
`
`09:21
`
`(Exhibit Phison 2009 introduced.)
`
`(Exhibit Phison 2008 introduced.)
`
`BY MR. NIKOLSKY:
`
`Q
`
`Mr. Visser,
`
`take your time, flip through
`
`that and tell me if you're familiar with those
`
`documents.
`
`09:21
`
`(Witness reviews documents.)
`
`A
`
`Yes,
`
`I'm familiar with these documents.
`
`BY MR . NIKOLSKY:
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`What are those documents?
`
`The Phison 2008 is —— appears to be my
`
`09:22
`
`declaration, and Phison 2009 appears to be my
`
`curriculum vitae.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Is the declaration signed?
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`Is that your signature?
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`Okay. Were you involved in preparing
`
`that declaration?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Yes,
`
`I was.
`
`Did you prepare it entirely yourself?
`
`No,
`
`I did not.
`
`09:22
`
`09:23
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 15
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et a1.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Who assisted you in preparing it?
`
`Josh and possibly Dan.
`
`I don't recall
`
`for sure if he was involved, but for sure Josh.
`
`Q
`
`Did they write portions of the
`
`declaration?
`
`A
`
`I prepared a draft of the declaration
`
`and shared it with counsel. We discussed it. There
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8 were certain things I asked them to do for me as far
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`as formatting and making sure that things were -— as
`
`an industrial designer, spelling and grammar are not
`
`nw'strength, and so I would rely upon the lawyer to
`
`12 make sure I was communicating effectively and tell
`
`13
`
`me when I'm not.
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And prior to signing that, did
`
`you review every portion of that document?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes,
`
`I did.
`
`Okay. And you are comfortable that that
`
`document contains your testimony in these
`
`proceedings.
`
`A
`
`It appears to be.
`
`I haven't read it
`
`right now to --
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`be.
`
`Okay.
`
`-- make sure of that, but it appears to
`
`Okay.
`
`No problem.
`
`If you look on the
`
`09:23
`
`09:23
`
`09:24
`
`09:24
`
`09:24
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 16
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`
`
`09:24
`
`09:24
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`last page of the declaration, do you see the
`
`paragraph that talks about, under penalties of
`
`perjury, you attest that the contents are true and
`
`accurate?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's correct.
`
`And you're aware that that is the case,
`
`that under penalties of perjury you're testifying
`that everything is true and accurate in this
`
`declaration?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's my understanding.
`
`Okay.
`
`I want to go a little bit into
`
`your educational background if we could. Why don't
`
`you tell me a little bit about your educational
`
`background.
`
`09:25
`
`A
`
`My undergraduate degree was in fine arts
`
`from Northwestern College in Orange City,
`
`Iowa.
`
`That was in 1982. And then in 1988,
`
`I graduated
`
`with a master of fine arts in industrial design from
`
`the University of Illinois at Champaign Urbana.
`
`09:25
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Any further education?
`
`I've done some course work since then,
`
`but nothing significant.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So your degrees are a BFA,
`
`bachelor in fine arts,
`
`--
`
`09:25
`
`A
`
`No.
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`/N
`
`\.
`
`
`
`<:
`
`Iz
`
`/\/4
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et 31.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`—— and an MSA?
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`It's a Bachelor of Arts.
`
`Bachelor of Arts. Okay. And your
`
`master's degree is in what?
`
`09:25
`
`A
`
`Master of fine arts in industrial
`
`design.
`
`Okay.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`09:25
`
`MFA refers to master of fine arts?
`
`That's correct.
`
`Tell me a little bit about your course
`
`work for your undergraduate degree, what courses did
`
`you take?
`
`A
`
`General education courses, sculpture;
`
`painting, ceramics, print making, aesthetics,
`
`09:26
`
`probably about a hundred and some credits worth.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`Sure. Any classes in engineering
`
`in your undergraduate?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`Any classes in mechanical engineering in
`
`09:26
`
`your undergraduate?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`Any courses that involved the design of
`
`electrical components?
`
`09:26
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`In my undergraduate education?
`
`Yes.
`
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`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. VS. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`And let's go towards your master's
`
`degree, any courses there in engineering?
`
`A
`
`I believe there was a human factors
`
`09:27
`
`course co listed,
`
`I think, between engineering and
`
`09:27
`
`('7
`
`psychology.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. What did the human factors course
`
`cover broadly?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Man/machine interface --
`
`Okay.
`
`-— essentially.
`
`In any of your educational experience,
`
`have you had any experience designing Computer
`
`peripherals or had any courses that related to
`
`09:27
`
`computer peripherals?
`
`A
`
`I'm not sure I can recall right now all
`
`of the things, but I remember doing a design for a
`
`Apple,
`
`I think it was a personal digital assistant.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. What parts of the design were you
`
`09:28
`
`involved in,
`
`the entire digital assistant or parts
`
`of it?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`09:28
`
`Primarily the housing for it.
`
`External housing of the device?
`
`(Witness nods head.)
`
`Okay. Any design for that project
`
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`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`09:28
`
`involved with connectors for the computer?
`
`A
`
`That was almost 27 years ago.
`
`I'm
`
`pretty sure there were connectors.
`
`I don't recall
`
`what kind.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Any USB connectors?
`
`I don't think at that time USB was out.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you have a Ph.D. degree or --
`
`I do not.
`
`Okay. Let's turn a little bit to your
`
`09:29
`
`career post education. What's your current
`
`position?
`
`A
`
`I'm a full professor at Purdue
`
`University.
`
`;
`
`09:29
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Is that a full—time position?
`
`It's a nine—month full-time position.
`
`Nine months. What do you do in the
`
`other three months of the year?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I do design work and expert witness.
`
`Okay. Are you currently involved as an
`
`09:29
`
`expert witness in any other cases besides this one?
`
`A
`
`I think I've got five right now that are
`
`active.
`
`Q
`
`Currently active. Okay.
`
`In which
`
`courts?
`
`09:29
`
`A
`
`I'm not sure.
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 20
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et a1.
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`Top of your head,
`
`if you can
`
`remember.
`
`A
`
`I was deposed for the Amazon case in
`
`K".
`
`09:30
`
`Chicago.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay.
`
`I'm not sure where the district is.
`
`MSA,
`
`I was deposed in New Jersey.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Products.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`MSA you said, what does that stand for?
`
`MSA,
`
`I don't know.
`
`Okay. MSA was a party to the case?
`
`Yeah,
`
`I think it's MSA versus Nifty
`
`Okay.. Patent
`
`infringement case?
`
`Yes.
`
`Okay. And were the other ones patent
`
`infringement cases, also?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`All of them.
`
`All of them. Okay. Tell me a little
`
`bit about your teaching assistant position at the
`
`University of Illinois, what did you teach?
`
`A
`
`Two different courses.
`
`I taught A&D
`
`10 —— I'm not sure of the number.
`
`It was
`
`three—dimensional design.
`
`It's a freshman course,
`
`and I taught a sophomore level drawing case.
`
`Q
`
`What does A&D stand for?
`
`09:30
`
`09:30
`
`09:30
`
`09:31
`
`10
`
`ll
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`1'7
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 21
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Art and design.
`
`Art and design?
`
`But that was an —- I'm thinking as
`
`Purdue, it would be called art and design.
`
`I forgot
`
`09:31
`
`at University of Illinois what
`
`the numbering system
`
`was.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Okay. Did you have any classes
`
`that related to engineering as a teaching assistant?
`
`A
`
`No,
`
`I believe they were all industrial
`
`09:31
`
`design courses.
`
`Q
`
`Industrial design, okay. And then tell
`
`me a little bit about your position as a visiting
`
`assistant professor of industrial design at Purdue
`
`from 1989 to 1990, what courses did you teach then?
`
`09:32
`
`A
`
`I'm not sure I'll have it exactly
`
`correct, but it would have been industrial design
`
`studio.
`
`I'm not sure whether it was 305, 306, 405
`
`or 406.
`
`It would have been some of those courses,
`
`and I believe design methodology.
`
`09:32
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Any engineering involved in any
`
`of those courses?
`
`A
`
`A third one, but I'm not sure if it was
`
`that year or as an assistant professor, would have
`been materials and processes.
`
`09:32
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So manufacturing processes,
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`things like that?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's correct.
`
`Okay. And then your subsequent position
`
`was as —— again, at Purdue University, assistant
`
`professor of industrial design, correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I'm sorry, repeat the question?
`
`Your next position after visiting
`
`assistant professor of industrial design was
`
`assistant professor of industrial design, correct?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`That's correct.
`
`And what did you teach in that position?
`
`The same types of courses.
`
`I believe I
`
`13'
`
`also began teaching design history.
`
`I may have also
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`taught ~~ in fact,
`
`I know I did teach at that time a
`
`three—dimensional design course. There may have
`
`been some other courses that I'm not recalling right
`
`now.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And same question for the last
`
`two positions that you have listed, the first one
`
`being associated professor industrial design and
`
`21
`
`then your current position, what classes were
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`covered, what classes did you teach?
`
`A
`
`Again,
`
`there's been quite a few courses
`
`that I've taught over those years.
`
`It would have
`
`also included presentation techniques as well as the
`
`09:32
`
`09 33
`
`09:33
`
`09:33
`
`09:33
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 23
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`previous ones listed, also materials and processes
`
`2, graduate-level industrial design, graduate
`
`materials and processes.
`
`I'm not sure I have a
`
`complete list, but those would be some of the
`
`09:34
`
`courses.
`
`Q
`
`Those are examples. Okay.
`
`Do any of
`
`your current classes relate to the design of USB
`
`F7
`
`computer products?
`
`09:34
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No,
`
`I don't believe so.
`
`Okay. What about
`
`the manufacture of USB
`
`computer products?
`
`A
`
`Well,
`
`the process is used for making USB
`
`devices or the —— talked about in patents are
`
`processes that I would have taught in the materials
`
`09:35
`
`and process course, as well as in industrial design
`
`studios we deal with those.
`
`Q
`
`So those are specific processes to make
`
`USB components, that's what you taught?
`
`A
`
`No,
`
`those processes used are used for
`
`09:35
`
`many different things, not just USB.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay.
`
`Many kinds of computer products,
`
`consumer products, professional products.
`
`Q
`
`I understand. Has all of your
`
`09:35
`
`experience in academia been at Purdue?
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
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`Page: 24
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`A
`
`I taught for one year as a Fulbright
`
`professor at the University of Art and Design in
`
`Helsinki, which I think has been renamed now Aalto
`
`09:35
`
`University.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay. Any other institutions?
`
`I taught at University of Lapland for
`
`six weeks.
`
`I taught at Oxford for four weeks.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Okay.
`
`I
`
`I've given some workshops at some other
`
`09:36
`
`schools for a week or so.
`
`Q
`
`And if you can recall, what did you
`
`teach at those institutions?
`
`A
`
`At University of Art and Design in
`
`Helsinki,
`
`I taught a course on compliant mechanisms.
`
`09:36
`
`And I taught a course on,
`
`I don't remember the title
`
`of it, but it was a material focus course.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay. What is a compliant mechanism?
`
`One that flexes or bends.
`
`So materials made out of plastics and
`
`09:36
`
`rubber and things like that, flexible materials?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Yes, metal can flex and bend as well.
`
`Sure.
`
`But plastic was. Well,
`
`some students
`
`use wood,
`
`some use plastics, et cetera.
`
`09:37
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Let's turn a little bit to your
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 25
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`qualifications outside of academia. You say in your
`
`C"
`
`declaration that you worked as an industrial
`
`designer for Harry & Associates in Skokie, Illinois;
`
`is that correct?
`
`C
`
`09:37
`
`A
`
`Yes, that's correct, except it would be
`
`(1
`
`_\
`[1,
`
`C:
`
`C
`
`Q
`
`pronounced Hari.
`
`Q
`
`Hari. Okay.
`
`Thank you. That's why I
`
`asked you about your name initially, make sure I
`
`pronounce it right.
`
`09:37
`
`How long were you there?
`
`A
`
`Started in '88 and I went to Purdue
`
`in '89.
`
`Q
`
`And what did you do as an industrial
`
`designer for Hari & Associates?
`
`09:37
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Primary consumer products.
`
`What types of consumer products?
`
`Radar detector, camera, medical
`
`analyzing device, packaging for video game.
`
`I'm
`
`sure I'm forgetting some, but those were the kinds
`
`09:38
`
`of products.
`
`Q
`
`Sure. What components specifically were
`
`you designing for those products,
`
`to the best of
`
`your recollection?
`
`09:38
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`The housing.
`
`Exterior housing of each component?
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 26
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That sounds correct.
`
`Okay. Let's move to Steve Visser
`
`Design.
`
`Can you tell me a little bit about Steve
`
`Visser Design and what it does?
`
`09:38
`
`A
`
`It's a consultancy that I did while I
`
`was teaching at Purdue.
`
`I would offer my design
`
`services to different companies.
`
`I would hire
`
`either students or past students to assist me when
`
`the workload got too big.
`
`09:39
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And were you designing products
`
`for companies?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Yes.
`
`What kinds of products?
`
`There's a list in my CV that is fairly
`
`09:39
`
`complete, but electronics, consumer products, hand
`
`tools.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Any computer products?
`
`The ones I mentioned earlier.
`
`I don't
`
`recall any others right now.
`
`09:40
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Any USB flash drives at Steve Visser?
`
`I believe at Steve Visser Design that
`
`was not the case.
`
`Q
`
`And the same for Hari & Associates, any
`
`design of USB flash drives there?
`
`09:40
`
`A
`
`I don't even know if USB drive -— flash
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 27
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`F“.
`
`O
`
`09:40
`
`09:40
`
`09:41
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`drives existed in the 1980s but --
`
`Q
`
`Let's --
`
`(Simultaneous conversation
`
`interrupted by the reporter.)
`
`A
`
`I don't recall.
`
`BY MR . NI KOLSKY:
`
`Q
`
`Let's talk about your current firm,
`
`8 DesignNapkin.
`
`Can you tell me about DesignNapkin
`
`9
`
`and what it does?
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`A
`
`Colleague of my —— of mine, Scott Shim,
`
`co founded that firm. We offer services to
`
`companies for industrial design work.
`
`Q
`
`And what companies have you worked with
`
`at DesignNapkin?
`
`A
`
`We worked for Omega Lighting which was a
`
`part of Genteel Lighting which is now Philips and
`
`then Capri Lighting. We worked for Apollo. We
`
`worked for Samsung. We worked for some inventors.
`
`19 Again,
`
`there should be a more complete listing in
`
`09:41
`
`20
`
`the CV.
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`09:41
`
`Q
`
`Sure. What were you designing for
`
`Samsung?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Cellphones.
`
`And what parts of cellphones?
`
`The housing.
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 23
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`Q
`
`What about Omega Lighting; what did you
`
`design for them?
`
`A
`
`It was both Omega and Capri and I'm not
`
`sure which one we did which for, but between those
`
`ox
`
`09:42
`
`two we did pendant lights,
`
`track lights,
`
`--
`
`ff:
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`—— and track light fixtures.
`
`And I believe you listed in your
`
`09:42
`
`09:42
`
`declaration that you also did work for Klipsch?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes,
`
`I forgot about that one.
`
`What did you do for Klipsch? What did
`
`you design for Klipsch?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I believe it's still confidential.
`
`Okay.
`
`But I can describe it in general terms.
`
`Sure.
`
`It was a iPod accessory.
`
`And for Samsung/Omega Lighting, Capri
`
`Lighting and Klipsch, did you design any USB
`
`09:43
`
`computer products?
`
`A
`
`I believe the cellphones and the iPod
`
`accessory -- well,
`
`I believe the cellphone used the
`
`mini and the iPod uses the 30-pin connector.
`
`Q
`
`Were you involved in designing any of
`
`09:43
`
`those connectors?
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 29
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORR, at al.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No,
`
`those follow standards.
`
`Okay. And tell me a little bit about
`
`Filadex,
`
`am I pronouncing it right, Filadex?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's correct.
`
`What did you design there? What did you
`
`design for that client?
`
`A
`
`It was a USB memory stick that you could
`
`daisy chain together to share information between
`
`memory sticks.
`
`Q
`
`Did you design the entire product,
`
`the
`
`entire USB memory stick?
`
`A
`
`Well,
`
`the engineers that we worked with
`
`did the inside PCB,
`
`the electronics of it. We
`
`designed the housing,
`
`the interface, how the
`
`consumer would react with that.
`
`Q
`
`Did any of your design work for Filadex
`
`for USB memory sticks involve the design of the USB
`
`connector for that product?
`
`A
`
`As I remember, it was the earlier style
`
`of USB with a plastic housing with the separate PCB,
`
`separate metal connector.
`
`Q
`
`Were you involved in designing the metal
`
`connector?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`No.
`
`Okay. And how many different memory
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`1'7
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`09:43
`
`09:44
`
`09:44
`
`09:45
`
`09:45
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 30
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`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORR, et al.
`
`stick designs were there?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I believe two.
`
`Two.
`
`Can you recall the difference
`
`between the two?
`
`09:45
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`two?
`
`One was better looking.
`
`Any functional differences between the
`
`Yes.
`
`The first one relied upon a
`
`four—way arrow toggle system, and the second one
`
`09:46
`
`went to a right/left toggle system with a select.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. And I believe you mentioned the
`
`USB memory sticks had PCBAs
`
`in them, printed circuit
`
`board assemblies?
`
`09:46
`
`C‘;
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's correct.
`
`How were those printed circuit board
`
`assemblies mounted to those products?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't remember.
`
`Do you recall if any of those products
`
`used something called a flake spacer?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't believe they did.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you recall if any of those
`
`products had a prop to hold the circuit board above
`
`the metal part of the housing?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't recall.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you recall generally how the
`
`09:46
`
`09:46
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 31
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`USBS were mounted at all?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I think —— rephrase the question, how
`
`Do you recall generally how the USB —-
`
`09:47
`
`I'm sorry, generally how the PCBAS were mounted?
`
`Thank you.
`
`A
`
`The question makes more sense.
`
`In the first design,
`
`I think it was
`
`a clamshell design where they were captured between.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Captured between. Okay.
`
`I don't remember on the second design.
`
`Okay. Roughly what
`
`time frame was this?
`
`09:47
`
`C;
`
`.f A
`
`From 2005.
`
`Q
`
`2005. Okay.
`
`Do you recall if there
`
`09:47
`
`were any pins or screws or other types of components
`
`that were used to capture the printed circuit board
`
`assembly?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't recall.
`
`Don't recall. Okay.
`
`I believe in your
`
`09:48
`
`CV you list a number of publications.
`
`Do any of
`
`your publications relate to the design of USB flash
`
`drives?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't believe so.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do any of them relate to the
`
`09:48
`
`manufacturing of USB flash drives?
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 32
`
`
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`09:48
`
`09:49
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`A
`
`I don't believe any of them relate
`
`specifically to the manufacturing of USB flash
`
`drives.
`
`Q
`
`Is Steve Visser Design no longer
`
`incorporated?
`
`A
`
`Steve Visser Design was never
`
`incorporated.
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`business?
`
`Never incorporated. What was it?
`
`Sole proprietor.
`
`Okay.
`
`Is it currently doing any
`
`A
`
`I am still doing consulting work.
`
`I've
`
`got a project going with an inventor from the
`
`Indianapolis area.
`
`I still do it under
`
`09:49
`
`15 DesignNapkin.
`
`16
`
`17
`
`1 8
`
`19
`
`20
`
`Q
`
`Okay.
`
`So you still have design
`
`consulting services through DesignNapkin? That was
`
`ye S ?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`That's yes:
`
`Okay. And you also listed in your CV a
`
`21
`
`number of awards that you have.
`
`Do any of those
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`awards relate to the design of USB flash drives?
`
`A
`
`I'm sorry.
`
`I think I misheard. Did you
`
`say --
`
`Q
`
`Awards listed in your CV, do any of
`
`09:49
`
`09:49
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 33
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`those awards relate to design of USB flash drives?
`
`~\
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`I don't believe so.
`
`What about
`
`the manufacture of USB flash
`
`drives, do any of those awards relate to manufacture
`
`09:50
`
`of USB flash drives?
`
`A
`
`Some have used similar processes, but
`
`no,
`
`I don't believe --
`
`Q
`
`Not specifically. Okay.
`
`09:50
`
`marked Exhibit PNY 1001 in these proceedings.
`
`Okay.
`
`I'm going to hand you what is
`
`(Exhibit PNY 1001 introduced.)
`
`MR. NIKOLSKY: Counsel, here is a
`
`copy.
`
`BY MR. NIKOLSKY:
`
`09:50
`
`Q
`
`I'd ask you to review it and let me know
`
`if you're familiar with that document.
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`Yes,
`
`I am familiar with this document.
`
`What is this document?
`
`- A
`
`It appears to be the '879 patent.
`
`09:51
`
`09:51
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`patent?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`And have you read the '879 patent?
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`Have you read every part of the '879
`
`Probably not.
`
`Which parts do you think you might not
`
`KRAMM COURT REPORTING
`
`Page: 34
`
`
`
`Deposition of Steven Carl Visser
`
`PNY TECHNOLOGIES, INC. vs. PHISON ELECTRONICS CORP., et al.
`
`have read?
`
`A
`
`Probably would not have read
`
`classification.
`
`I don't remember reading about who
`
`the examiner was.
`
`09:51
`
`Q
`
`Have you read the abstract,
`
`the
`
`specification?
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`A
`
`Q
`
`is?
`
`09:51
`
`09:51
`
`Yes, yes, I've read the specification.
`
`The drawings you've reviewed?
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`The claims?
`
`Yes,
`
`I have.
`
`Okay.
`
`Do you know what a file history
`
`Yes,
`
`I do.
`
`Have you read the patent file history
`
`for this patent?
`
`A
`
`I have reviewed it.
`
`I haven't read
`
`every page of it.
`
`Q
`
`Okay. Have you reviewed any of the
`
`09:51
`
`prior art that is listed on the cover page of this
`
`patent?
`
`A
`
`I have reviewed, for sure,
`
`some of
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