` FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` 2 TYLER DIVISION
`
` 3 NETWORK-1 SECURITY * Civil Docket No.
` SOLUTIONS, INC. *
` 4 * 6:08-CV-30
` VS. * Tyler, Texas
` 5 *
` * July 14, 2010
` 6 CISCO SYSTEMS, INC., ET AL * 1:00 P.M.
`
` 7
` TRANSCRIPT OF JURY TRIAL
` 8 AFTERNOON SESSION
` BEFORE THE HONORABLE LEONARD DAVIS
` 9 UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
`
` 10
`
` 11 APPEARANCES:
`
` 12 FOR THE PLAINTIFF
`
` 13 MR. GREGORY DOVEL
` MR. JOHN JEFFREY EICHMANN
` 14 DOVEL & LUNER
` 201 Santa Monica Blvd
` 15 Ste. 600
` Santa Monica, CA 90401
` 16
` MR. T. JOHN WARD, JR.
` 17 Ward & Smith
` P.O. Box 1231
` 18 Longview, TX 75606
`
` 19
` COURT REPORTERS:
` 20
` MS. SHEA SLOAN, CSR
` 21 MS. SHELLY HOLMES, CSR
` Official Court Reporters
` 22 211 West Ferguson, Third Floor
` Tyler, TX 75702
` 23 903/590-1171
`
` 24 (Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography,
` transcript produced on CAT system.)
` 25
`
`
`1
`
`
`
` 1 FOR THE DEFENDANTS
`
` 2
`
` 3 FOR CISCO SYSTEMS, INC.
` AND CISCO LINKSYS, LLC.:
` 4
`
` 5 MR. WILLIAM F. LEE
` WILMERHALE LLP
` 6 60 State St.
` Boston, MA 02109
` 7
`
` 8 MR. MARK D. SELWYN
` MS. NIKI Z. MOORE
` 9 WILMER HALE
` 117 S. California Ave.
` 10 Palo Alto, CA 94304
`
` 11
` MR. ERIC FINDLAY
` 12 FINDLAY CRAFT
` 6760 Jacksonville Hwy,
` 13 Ste. 101
` Tyler, TX 75703
` 14
`
` 15 MR. DAVID J. BECK
` MR. JOE W. REDDEN
` 16 MR. MICHAEL RICHARDSON
` BECK REDDEN & SECREST
` 17 1221 McKinney, Ste. 4500
` Houston, TX 77010
` 18
`
` 19 MR. OTIS CARROLL
` IRELAND CARROLL & KELLEY
` 20 6101 S. Broadway, Ste. 500
` Tyler, TX 75703
` 21
`
` 22
`
` 23
`
` 24
`
` 25
`
`
`2
`
`
`
` 1 FOR ADTRAN, INC.:
`
` 2 MR. DAVID D. BAHLER
` MR. GILBERT A. GREENE
` 3 FULBRIGHT & JAWORSKI
` 600 Congress Ave., Ste. 4200
` 4 Austin, TX 78701
`
` 5
`
` 6
`
` 7 FOR ENTERASYS NETWORK,
` INC.:
` 8
` MR. WILLIAM J. CORNELIUS, JR.
` 9 WILSON ROBERTSON & CORNELIUS
` 909 ESE Loop 323, Ste. 400
` 10 Tyler, TX 75701
`
` 11
` MR. RICHARD C. VASQUEZ
` 12 MR. ERIC W. BENISEK
` MR. CRAIG E. DAVIS
` 13 VASQUEZ BENISEK & LINDGREN
` 3685 Mt. Diablo Blvd.,
` 14 Ste. 300
` Lafayette, CA 94549
` 15
`
` 16
`
` 17
`
` 18 FOR EXTREME NETWORKS,
` INC.:
` 19
` MR. KENNETH R. ADAMO
` 20 JONES DAY
` 2727 N. Harwood St.
` 21 Dallas, TX 75201-1515
`
` 22
` MR. BEHROOZ SHARIATI
` 23 JONES DAY
` 1775 Embarcadero Rd.
` 24 Palo Alto, CA 94303
`
` 25
`
`
`3
`
`
`
` 1 FOR FOUNDRY NETWORKS:
`
` 2
` MR. HENRY C. BUNSOW
` 3 MR. K.T. "SUNNY" CHERIAN
` MR. JOHN D. HAMANN
` 4 HOWREY LLP
` 525 Market St., Ste. 3600
` 5 San Francisco, CA 94105
`
` 6
`
` 7
`
` 8 FOR 3COM CORPORATION:
`
` 9
` MR. JEFFREY E. OSTROW
` 10 SIMPSON THACHER & BARTLETT
` 2550 Hanover St.
` 11 Palo Alto, CA 94304
`
` 12
` MR. KERRY L. KONRAD
` 13 MR. GREGORY T. CHUEBON
` SIMPSON THACHER & BARTLETT
` 14 425 Lexington Ave.
` New York, NY 10017
` 15
`
` 16
`
` 17
`
` 18 * * * * * *
`
` 19
`
` 20 P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` 21 (Jury in.)
`
` 22 THE COURT: Please be seated.
`
` 23 All right. Mr. Lee, you may proceed.
`
` 24 MR. LEE: Your Honor, first, I have
`
` 25 Defendants' Exhibit List 1, which is a list of exhibits
`
`4
`
`
`
` 1 admitted on July 13th, 2010 by the Defendants. If I can
`
` 2 approach.
`
` 3 THE COURT: All right. You offer that.
`
` 4 Any objection?
`
` 5 MR. EICHMANN: No, Your Honor.
`
` 6 THE COURT: Be admitted.
`
` 7 MR. LEE: Your Honor, at this time, we
`
` 8 would offer without objection -- I understand -- DTX121,
`
` 9 132, 133, 134, 135, 136, 138, 141, 142, 143, 144, 262,
`
` 10 318, 487, 490, 491, 492, 493, 494, 495, 496, 499, 500,
`
` 11 501, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 509, 510, 511, 512,
`
` 12 513, 514, 515, 516, 517, 518, 519, 520, 695, 696, 697,
`
` 13 698, 1396, 1397, 1399, 1402, 1404, 1405.
`
` 14 THE COURT: All right. Any objection?
`
` 15 MR. EICHMANN: No.
`
` 16 THE COURT: Be admitted.
`
` 17 MR. LEE: And, Your Honor, at this time,
`
` 18 we would call Karl Nakamura. And Ms. Fletcher will do
`
` 19 his direct examination.
`
` 20 THE COURT: All right. Mr. Nakamura.
`
` 21 Has Mr. Nakamura been sworn, Mr. Lee?
`
` 22 MR. LEE: Yes, he has, Your Honor, the
`
` 23 first day.
`
` 24 THE COURT: All right. Very well.
`
` 25 KARL NAKAMURA, DEFENDANTS' WITNESS, PREVIOUSLY SWORN
`
`5
`
`
`
` 1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
`
` 2 BY MS. FLETCHER:
`
` 3 Q Good afternoon.
`
` 4 A Good afternoon.
`
` 5 Q Would you please introduce yourself?
`
` 6 A My name is Karl Nakamura.
`
` 7 Q Mr. Nakamura, before I get to your background
`
` 8 let me ask you just one question.
`
` 9 Have you ever designed a Power over
`
` 10 Ethernet -- well, PoE device?
`
` 11 A I've designed several.
`
` 12 THE COURT: Counsel, if you would please
`
` 13 raise the microphone, and try to speak into it a little
`
` 14 bit better.
`
` 15 MS. FLETCHER: Yes, Your Honor.
`
` 16 Q (By Ms. Fletcher) Where do you work?
`
` 17 A I'm currently a consultant to Cisco Systems.
`
` 18 Q And have you ever been a full-time employee at
`
` 19 Cisco?
`
` 20 A I have. I have worked at Cisco as a full-time
`
` 21 employee from 1997 through 2007. I retired from Cisco
`
` 22 in 2007.
`
` 23 Q What is your educational background?
`
` 24 A Okay. I have an undergraduate degree in
`
` 25 biology and a master's degree in electrical engineering,
`
`6
`
`
`
` 1 both from Stanford University in 1978.
`
` 2 Q Where did you work prior to joining Cisco?
`
` 3 A Prior to joining Cisco, I worked at a company
`
` 4 called LSI Logic. We -- it's a silicon-maker. I was
`
` 5 Director of Engineering there.
`
` 6 Prior to that, I worked at a company called
`
` 7 Olivetti. We made servers. I worked there for
`
` 8 approximately seven years.
`
` 9 Prior to that, I spent six or seven -- or
`
` 10 seven or eight years at two different start-ups; one
`
` 11 called Aguilas; another one called GridSystems. We made
`
` 12 handhelds and laptops.
`
` 13 Prior to that, I worked at Hewlett-Packard.
`
` 14 Q What type of work were you doing at those
`
` 15 companies?
`
` 16 A In all cases, I was either an electrical
`
` 17 engineer, an electrical engineer design manager, or a
`
` 18 design engineering director.
`
` 19 Q What positions have you held at Cisco?
`
` 20 A At Cisco, I was hired as a manager of hardware
`
` 21 engineering in the Enterprise Switching Group. I later
`
` 22 became a manager of engineering in a group called IPCBU,
`
` 23 Internet Protocol Communications Business Unit. We
`
` 24 built communications products.
`
` 25 And I was later promoted to be -- to being a
`
`7
`
`
`
` 1 Director of Engineering in that group. And I was later
`
` 2 a Director of -- excuse me -- Director of Engineering in
`
` 3 the Cisco-Linksys organization.
`
` 4 Q And can you briefly describe for us the
`
` 5 founding of Cisco?
`
` 6 A Cisco was founded in 1984. There were a
`
` 7 couple that both worked at Stanford University, and
`
` 8 they -- they became frustrated that they couldn't
`
` 9 communicate with each other across their two computer
`
` 10 systems.
`
` 11 And so in the -- in the tradition of -- of
`
` 12 Silicon Valley, they invented a device that allowed them
`
` 13 to communicate between the two networks. And this --
`
` 14 this device became called a router, and this couple
`
` 15 built a company.
`
` 16 They named it Cisco after the city, San
`
` 17 Francisco. That's where I understand they -- they
`
` 18 decided to incorporate and build and start the company.
`
` 19 Q And -- and what year was Cisco founded?
`
` 20 A 1984.
`
` 21 Q How many people does Cisco employ today?
`
` 22 A Cisco currently employs approximately 65,000
`
` 23 people.
`
` 24 Q How -- how many of those people are here in
`
` 25 East Texas?
`
`8
`
`
`
` 1 A Approximately 2,000 people in East Texas.
`
` 2 Q What is Cisco's business today?
`
` 3 A Cisco's business today is selling devices that
`
` 4 connect people and computers to networks. So our
`
` 5 products include things, for example, like telephones.
`
` 6 You'll hear a lot about IP telephones. We
`
` 7 sell cameras and teleconferencing equipment. We also
`
` 8 sell switches and routers that connect different pieces
`
` 9 of electronics together.
`
` 10 Q Okay. And I'd like to bring up the first
`
` 11 graphic that we have here. And using this graphic, can
`
` 12 you help explain how a switch product works?
`
` 13 A What you see here is labeled a network switch
`
` 14 product. It's in the center, and you see some wires,
`
` 15 depictions of wires going out to two computers and an IP
`
` 16 telephone and a laptop and a printer.
`
` 17 So the one thing a switch does is allow those
`
` 18 local devices to communicate with each other with data,
`
` 19 of course. You see on the -- on the left-hand side --
`
` 20 excuse me -- a connection to a wall socket, and it says
`
` 21 to Internet.
`
` 22 So another function of a switch is it allows
`
` 23 devices to communicate not just within their own local
`
` 24 area, but rather connect to other part -- other networks
`
` 25 and other parts of the same network.
`
`9
`
`
`
` 1 Some of you may have heard of the Internet or
`
` 2 you've probably heard of the Internet, and so that's an
`
` 3 example of a large network.
`
` 4 Q When did Cisco begin selling Ethernet switch
`
` 5 products?
`
` 6 A Sometime in the late -- mid to late 1980s.
`
` 7 Q And what were you originally hired to do at
`
` 8 Cisco?
`
` 9 A Originally, I was hired to build a router -- a
`
` 10 routing subsystem as part of an enterprise switching
`
` 11 product.
`
` 12 Q Have you ever worked on Power over Ethernet,
`
` 13 or PoE, at Cisco?
`
` 14 A I have.
`
` 15 Q When did Cisco first begin working on PoE?
`
` 16 A We first began working on PoE in -- sometime
`
` 17 in early to mid-1998.
`
` 18 Q What gave rise to Cisco's interest in Power
`
` 19 over Ethernet?
`
` 20 A We -- we -- Cisco in the Enterprise Switching
`
` 21 Group, we became interested in adding value to our
`
` 22 networks, and one of the things we decided that would be
`
` 23 an interesting product is allowing our customers to do
`
` 24 voice communication over the data network.
`
` 25 When we decided to do this, one of the things
`
`10
`
`
`
` 1 we -- we noted was it would be a desirable feature to
`
` 2 have one wire coming from the wall plate in your office
`
` 3 directly to your -- to your telephone. In order to do
`
` 4 that, on that single wire you need to find a way to have
`
` 5 data flowing over those -- that wire as well as power.
`
` 6 Q And you referred to telephones, and I think
`
` 7 you're talking about IP telephones, correct?
`
` 8 A That's correct.
`
` 9 Q What is an IP telephone?
`
` 10 A An IP telephone, first and foremost, is a
`
` 11 telephone; and all of us, I'm sure, have used a
`
` 12 telephone. We own telephones in our homes, and they
`
` 13 have particular attributes.
`
` 14 They -- you can talk to other people; you
`
` 15 communicate over them. They have a sensor that allows
`
` 16 you to talk, and it transmits the voice to the other
`
` 17 end. And you have a similar device -- a similar set of
`
` 18 devices coming the other way.
`
` 19 It has a mechanism to signal you that there's
`
` 20 an -- that somebody wants to contact you; that is, it
`
` 21 rings. And then it has a -- has a mechanism so that you
`
` 22 can signal to the network that you want to connect to
`
` 23 some other particular person; that is, you can dial or
`
` 24 you can talk to an operator.
`
` 25 So that's what a telephone is. And so an IP
`
`11
`
`
`
` 1 telephone is a telephone.
`
` 2 The second thing, the IP piece, stands for
`
` 3 Internet protocol. And what that means is, it -- the
`
` 4 information that's typically voice, but not just voice,
`
` 5 that traverses out of this end-point device uses the
`
` 6 Internet protocol to traverse the communications
`
` 7 network.
`
` 8 Q What work did Cisco do on IP telephones in the
`
` 9 1990s?
`
` 10 A In the 1990s, we -- as we've discussed, Cisco
`
` 11 explored this concept, and we decided as -- as -- that
`
` 12 this would be a worthwhile business to attempt to get
`
` 13 into, to attempt to build.
`
` 14 We knew at the time that if you want to build
`
` 15 a communications system like that, one thing you need to
`
` 16 build are IP telephones. So we built several different
`
` 17 versions of IP telephones at that time.
`
` 18 Also, there are other attributes of the
`
` 19 network that need built as well. There are switches.
`
` 20 We'll spend some time discussing PoE. That's
`
` 21 a concept we needed to develop -- invent and develop.
`
` 22 Another thing we had to do was develop systems
`
` 23 and protocols inside of switches, inside of routers,
`
` 24 inside of other pieces of networking equipment so that
`
` 25 when you made a phone call, the thing worked and it
`
`12
`
`
`
` 1 worked reliably; it worked all the time.
`
` 2 And so all of these things, we -- we began and
`
` 3 worked -- beginning in approximately the early part of
`
` 4 1998.
`
` 5 Q Now, is there any --
`
` 6 THE COURT: Counsel, the Court Reporter
`
` 7 and my Clerk have pointed out to me that they don't have
`
` 8 a record of this witness being sworn. So out of an
`
` 9 abundance of precaution, we're going to swear you twice.
`
` 10 So if you will, raise your right hand to
`
` 11 be sworn.
`
` 12 (Witness sworn.)
`
` 13 THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
`
` 14 You may proceed.
`
` 15 Q (By Ms. Fletcher) Mr. Nakamura --
`
` 16 THE COURT: Any objection to his prior
`
` 17 testimony?
`
` 18 I didn't think so.
`
` 19 All right. Proceed.
`
` 20 Q (By Ms. Fletcher) Mr. Nakamura, is there any
`
` 21 relationship between Cisco's work on IP telephones and
`
` 22 Power over Ethernet?
`
` 23 A Yes.
`
` 24 Q And what is that relationship?
`
` 25 A As -- as I mentioned earlier, we thought it
`
`13
`
`
`
` 1 was a desirable feature that there be one wire
`
` 2 connecting an end point on a desk. This is -- this is
`
` 3 true of telephones at your house or at most offices.
`
` 4 It's true of the telephones on the desk here -- on the
`
` 5 desks here that there's one wire.
`
` 6 And we felt that it was a desirable feature to
`
` 7 have, and we felt that it was -- it was something that
`
` 8 we needed to develop with the product. So we -- as we
`
` 9 did that, we needed to investigate how to do that, and
`
` 10 we needed to -- to make it a feature of our product or
`
` 11 our product offering.
`
` 12 Q What work did Cisco do on Power over Ethernet
`
` 13 in the late 1990s?
`
` 14 A We noticed the need, first of all. We needed
`
` 15 to invent a mechanism to do that. We needed to -- after
`
` 16 inventing, in any kind of invention, we needed to invent
`
` 17 it; we needed to build one so that we need to build more
`
` 18 than one; we need to test it; we need to debug it; we
`
` 19 need to ensure that it works in all cases in all
`
` 20 corners; and we need to deploy it -- sorry -- we need to
`
` 21 manufacture it; we need to deploy it in a -- in a
`
` 22 reliable, reasonable way.
`
` 23 Q Did Cisco apply for any patents on Power over
`
` 24 Ethernet technology?
`
` 25 A We did.
`
`14
`
`
`
` 1 Q I'd like to bring up Exhibit 121, if we could,
`
` 2 which should also be behind Tab 2 in your notebook.
`
` 3 A Thank you.
`
` 4 Q Do you recognize this exhibit?
`
` 5 A I do.
`
` 6 Q What is it?
`
` 7 A This is a -- the title of -- this is U.S.
`
` 8 Patent No. 6,115,468, and this is -- the title of the
`
` 9 patent is Power Feed for Ethernet Telephones via
`
` 10 Ethernet Link.
`
` 11 The author is a gentleman named Maurilio Tazio
`
` 12 De Nicolo. Mr. De Nicolo at the time was -- worked with
`
` 13 me at -- at Cisco. He currently continues to work at
`
` 14 Cisco Systems.
`
` 15 And it describes a mechanism --
`
` 16 MR. DOVEL: Your Honor, Motion in Limine
`
` 17 No. 3. May we approach?
`
` 18 THE COURT: Yes, you may.
`
` 19 (Bench conference.)
`
` 20 MR. DOVEL: Your Honor, there was a
`
` 21 stipulated motion in limine that the parties would not
`
` 22 be offering any expert opinions outside of their expert
`
` 23 reports.
`
` 24 This witness was just getting prepared to
`
` 25 say what this patent describes. There's no expert
`
`15
`
`
`
` 1 report from this witness. As I said earlier, there are
`
` 2 going to be no expert opinions on the scope of this
`
` 3 patent or what it is. He should not be allowed to
`
` 4 testify about it.
`
` 5 That's not specific testimony he's giving
`
` 6 opinions about this patent.
`
` 7 MR. SELWYN: He's not giving an expert
`
` 8 opinion on this patent. He's not comparing this patent
`
` 9 against the claims of the '930 patent. He's just
`
` 10 explaining very briefly the subject matter of this
`
` 11 particular patent. Then he's going to talk about the
`
` 12 work he's done with his own patent, the '675 patent.
`
` 13 MR. DOVEL: It's exactly the same point,
`
` 14 Your Honor. He has no ability outside of expert opinion
`
` 15 to describe what this patent is. That's an expert's
`
` 16 testimony.
`
` 17 He's not saying what he heard, what he
`
` 18 saw. He's not talking about technology developed. He's
`
` 19 talking about that patent and what it covers, what it
`
` 20 means, what it describes.
`
` 21 Even when he talks about his own patent,
`
` 22 we have the same issues. They have an expert,
`
` 23 Dr. Mercer, who's going to talk about that patent, the
`
` 24 '675 patent. He can describe it. He can talk about it
`
` 25 and say what it is, what it covers.
`
`16
`
`
`
` 1 THE COURT: All right. Sustained. He
`
` 2 can -- he can read from it. He can read a summary of it
`
` 3 or whatever, but that's --
`
` 4 MR. SELWYN: Just to be clear, Your
`
` 5 Honor. He's going to be testifying next about the
`
` 6 patent in which he's the inventor. He did the work on
`
` 7 the patent. He's not going to be comparing the patent
`
` 8 to the claims. He's going to be testifying.
`
` 9 And is that permissible?
`
` 10 THE COURT: Yeah.
`
` 11 MR. DOVEL: Your Honor, we have the same
`
` 12 issue. We don't want him describing what the claims
`
` 13 are.
`
` 14 MR. SELWYN: He's not going to do any
`
` 15 comparison.
`
` 16 (Bench conference concluded.)
`
` 17 MS. FLETCHER: Bring Exhibit 121 back up,
`
` 18 please.
`
` 19 Q (By Ms. Fletcher) Can you tell us when this
`
` 20 patent was filed?
`
` 21 A This patent application was filed on March 26,
`
` 22 1998.
`
` 23 Q How many patents related to Power over
`
` 24 Ethernet technology does Cisco have?
`
` 25 A Cisco has in excess of a dozen patents today
`
`17
`
`
`
` 1 related to Power over Ethernet technology, and we
`
` 2 continue to receive new patents issued to Cisco at this
`
` 3 time.
`
` 4 Q And I'd like you to look behind Tab No. 1 in
`
` 5 your notebook, and this includes Exhibits 132 through
`
` 6 136, 138, and 141 through 144.
`
` 7 Can you tell us what these documents are?
`
` 8 A Well, these are a series of patents. The
`
` 9 first one is Patent 6,817,890, and it describes a
`
` 10 particular -- a particular method for assembling a PoE
`
` 11 connector -- connector assembly.
`
` 12 Q And, Mr. Nakamura, we don't need to go through
`
` 13 each patent individually.
`
` 14 A Okay. All right.
`
` 15 Q But can you describe -- do all the patents
`
` 16 behind Tab No. 1 relate generally to Power over
`
` 17 Ethernet?
`
` 18 A Yes. They all relate generally to Power over
`
` 19 Ethernet, and they're all generated by inventors at the
`
` 20 time that were at Cisco.
`
` 21 Q Now, did the research that you and other
`
` 22 engineers at Cisco performed result in the development
`
` 23 of any particular method for Power over Ethernet?
`
` 24 A Yes. It at least resulted in one particular
`
` 25 method, which -- which we call Cisco Inline Power.
`
`18
`
`
`
` 1 Q And can you explain to the jury what Cisco
`
` 2 Inline Power is?
`
` 3 A Cisco Inline Power is a technology, an
`
` 4 invention for -- for providing power to end points, like
`
` 5 IP telephones. It involves three -- three main facets
`
` 6 or attributes.
`
` 7 One is the detection of a device appropriate
`
` 8 to receive power; second is providing that Power over
`
` 9 Ethernet cables; and third is -- is detecting the
`
` 10 disconnection of such a device and using that,
`
` 11 therefore, to turn off the power.
`
` 12 Q Are there any -- are there any advantages to
`
` 13 using Cisco Inline Power over other remote detection
`
` 14 methods?
`
` 15 A There are some --
`
` 16 MR. DOVEL: Objection, Your Honor.
`
` 17 Motion in Limine No. 3 again.
`
` 18 THE COURT: Restate your question.
`
` 19 MS. FLETCHER: The question was: Are
`
` 20 there any advantages to using Cisco Inline Power over
`
` 21 other remote detection methods?
`
` 22 THE COURT: Sustained.
`
` 23 Q (By Ms. Fletcher) Has Cisco sold any products
`
` 24 that use Inline Power?
`
` 25 A That use -- yes.
`
`19
`
`
`
` 1 Q And what -- what types of products are those?
`
` 2 A We've sold IP telephones; we've sold access
`
` 3 points; we've sold, of course, switches and routers that
`
` 4 provide power to those end points.
`
` 5 If that's not an exhaustive list, that's
`
` 6 certainly the vast majority of the numbers of products
`
` 7 we've sold.
`
` 8 Q When did Cisco begin selling products that use
`
` 9 Cisco Inline Power?
`
` 10 A In the early part of the year 2000.
`
` 11 Q Does Cisco still sell products that use Cisco
`
` 12 Inline Power?
`
` 13 A Yes. Absolutely.
`
` 14 Q And does Cisco today sell products that use
`
` 15 only Cisco Inline Power and not 802.3af?
`
` 16 A That's correct, we do.
`
` 17 Q What types of products are those?
`
` 18 A We sell end points that specifically -- like
`
` 19 IP telephones that only use the Cisco Inline Power
`
` 20 methodology.
`
` 21 Q Has Cisco ever experienced any -- any
`
` 22 technical problems with the Cisco Inline products it has
`
` 23 sold?
`
` 24 A No.
`
` 25 Q Now, when did you first develop Cisco Inline
`
`20
`
`
`
` 1 Power?
`
` 2 A We began the process of invention during the
`
` 3 summer and fall of 1998.
`
` 4 Q Did Cisco apply for any patents on its Cisco
`
` 5 Inline Power technology?
`
` 6 A Yes, we did.
`
` 7 MS. FLETCHER: And I'd like to bring up
`
` 8 Exhibit 131, please.
`
` 9 Q (By Ms. Fletcher) Do you recognize this
`
` 10 patent? It should be behind Tab 3 of your notebook.
`
` 11 A I do.
`
` 12 Q Can you explain what this patent is?
`
` 13 A This is Patent No. 6,762,675. The title of
`
` 14 patent is Method and Apparatus for Remotely Powering of
`
` 15 a Device Connected to a Network.
`
` 16 Q And we sometimes refer to this patent by the
`
` 17 last three numbers. It's the '675 patent, correct?
`
` 18 A That's correct. This is the '675 patent.
`
` 19 Q Who are the inventors of the '675 patent?
`
` 20 A I'm one of the inventors. The other inventors
`
` 21 are Luca Cafiero, Maurilio De Nicolo, Tom Edsall, and
`
` 22 Soel-Shin Hang. At the time, all of us were employees
`
` 23 of Cisco Systems.
`
` 24 At the present time, Mr. Cafiero and
`
` 25 Mr. De Nicolo are both still employees at -- at Cisco.
`
`21
`
`
`
` 1 I believe Mr. Edsall is a consultant to Cisco, if -- if
`
` 2 I'm correct.
`
` 3 Q When was the application for the '675 patent
`
` 4 filed with the Patent Office?
`
` 5 A It was filed on September 27th, 1999.
`
` 6 Q Now, generally, what does the technology of
`
` 7 the '675 patent relate to?
`
`