1 (Pages 2 to 5)
`Page 4
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` TABLE OF CONTENTS
`
`WITNESS PAGE
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. WEED 5
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. ROBINSON 97
`
` EXHIBITS
`
`EXHIBIT PAGE
`(Exhibits not offered.)
`(Exhibit 1001, Exhibit 1002, Exhibit 1003,
` Exhibit 1004 and Exhibit 2004, Exhibit 2012,
` Exhibit 2017 and Exhibit 2025 referenced in
` the deposition are attached.)
`
`Page 5
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Troy, Michigan
`Tuesday, August 27, 2013
`1:13 p.m.
`
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV,
`7
` was thereupon called as a witness herein, and after
`8
` having first been duly sworn to testify to the truth,
`9
` the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was
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` examined and testified as follows:
`11
` EXAMINATION
`12
`BY MR. WEED:
`13
`Q. Good afternoon, sir.
`14
`A. Good afternoon.
`15
`Q. Would you please state and spell your name for the
`16
` record.
`17
`A. Albert Harvey Bell, IV. Albert is spelled,
`18
` A-L-B-E-R-T. Harvey is spelled, H-A-R-V-E-Y. Bell is
`19
` spelled, B-E-L-L. Roman numeral IV.
`20
`Q. Thank you. What is your current residential address?
`21
`A. 848 Pleasant, Birmingham, Michigan 48009.
`22
`Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
`23
`A. Yes.
`24
`Q. How many times?
`25
`A. Two, I think.
`LKQ CORPORATION EX. 1018
`LKQ CORPORATION v. CLEARLAMP, LLC
`Trial IPR2013-00020
`
`Page 2
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL APPEAL BOARD
`
`LKQ CORPORATION, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Case IPR2013-00020 (SCM)
` )
` ) Patent 7,297,364
` )
`CLEARLAMP, LLC, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` )
`______________________________)
`
` The Deposition of A. HARVEY BELL, IV,
` Taken at 5445 Corporate Drive,
` Troy, Michigan,
` Commencing at 1:13 p.m.,
` Tuesday, August 27, 2013,
` Before Renee J. Ogden, CSR-3455, RPR.
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`Page 3
`1
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`2 APPEARANCES:
`
`34
`
`BENJAMIN E. WEED
`5 VIREN S. SONI
`6 K&L Gates, LLP
`7
`70 West Madison Street
`8
`Suite 3100
`9
`Chicago, Illinois 60602
`10
`312.372.1121
`11
`benjamin.weed@klgates.com
`12
`Viren.soni@klgates.com
`13
` Appearing on behalf of the Petitioner.
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`DOUGLAS A. ROBINSON
`Harness, Dickey & Pierce, P.L.C.
`7700 Bonhomme
`Suite 400
`Clayton, Missouri 63105
`314.446.7683
`drobinson@hdp.com
` Appearing on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`
`(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:20)
`
`

`

`1 (Pages 2 to 5)
`Page 4
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` TABLE OF CONTENTS
`
`WITNESS PAGE
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. WEED 5
` EXAMINATION
` BY MR. ROBINSON 97
`
` EXHIBITS
`
`EXHIBIT PAGE
`(Exhibits not offered.)
`(Exhibit 1001, Exhibit 1002, Exhibit 1003,
` Exhibit 1004 and Exhibit 2004, Exhibit 2012,
` Exhibit 2017 and Exhibit 2025 referenced in
` the deposition are attached.)
`
`Page 5
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Troy, Michigan
`Tuesday, August 27, 2013
`1:13 p.m.
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV,
` was thereupon called as a witness herein, and after
` having first been duly sworn to testify to the truth,
` the whole truth and nothing but the truth, was
` examined and testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. WEED:
`Q. Good afternoon, sir.
`A. Good afternoon.
`Q. Would you please state and spell your name for the
` record.
`A. Albert Harvey Bell, IV. Albert is spelled,
` A-L-B-E-R-T. Harvey is spelled, H-A-R-V-E-Y. Bell is
` spelled, B-E-L-L. Roman numeral IV.
`Q. Thank you. What is your current residential address?
`A. 848 Pleasant, Birmingham, Michigan 48009.
`Q. Have you ever had your deposition taken before?
`A. Yes.
`Q. How many times?
`A. Two, I think.
`
`Page 2
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL APPEAL BOARD
`
`LKQ CORPORATION, )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Case IPR2013-00020 (SCM)
` )
` ) Patent 7,297,364
` )
`CLEARLAMP, LLC, )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
` )
`______________________________)
`
` The Deposition of A. HARVEY BELL, IV,
` Taken at 5445 Corporate Drive,
` Troy, Michigan,
` Commencing at 1:13 p.m.,
` Tuesday, August 27, 2013,
` Before Renee J. Ogden, CSR-3455, RPR.
`
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`Page 3
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`2 APPEARANCES:
`
`34
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`BENJAMIN E. WEED
`5 VIREN S. SONI
`6 K&L Gates, LLP
`7
`70 West Madison Street
`8
`Suite 3100
`9
`Chicago, Illinois 60602
`10
`312.372.1121
`11
`benjamin.weed@klgates.com
`12
`Viren.soni@klgates.com
`13
` Appearing on behalf of the Petitioner.
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`DOUGLAS A. ROBINSON
`Harness, Dickey & Pierce, P.L.C.
`7700 Bonhomme
`Suite 400
`Clayton, Missouri 63105
`314.446.7683
`drobinson@hdp.com
` Appearing on behalf of the Patent Owner.
`
`(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:20)
`
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`Page 6
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Do you know if either of those depositions were taken
` as an expert witness?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Were they both taken as expert witnesses?
`A. Yes. It might have only been one. I'm trying to
` remember. Let's go with the one.
`Q. Okay.
`A. But it was taken as an expert witness.
`Q. Can you recall when that deposition happened?
`A. 1987.
`Q. So it's been a while?
`A. Mm-hmm.
`Q. Let's go over a few of the ground rules for the day.
` I'm sure that you have talked about some of this with
` your counsel. As you can see, I'll be asking you
` questions and you will be answering them on the
` record. The court reporter is taking down everything
` everybody says, so as a result it's important that we
` try not to speak over each other; is that fair?
`A. Mm-hmm.
`Q. Another thing that is important is that if you answer
` a question that I ask, I'm going to assume you
` understood the question. If you don't understand a
` question, please let me know and I'll rephrase it.
`Page 7
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` Okay?
`A. Okay.
`Q. I want us to be on the same page on the questions and
` answers. The other thing is, it's not an endurance
` test. If you want to take a break, please let me
` know. We will not be here all afternoon. If you want
` to take a break, let me know.
` The last thing is, and probably for your
` benefit it's worth pausing after I ask a question in
` case your counsel wants to interpose an objection,
` however, you will still need to answer my question
` even if he objects, okay, to the extent that you
` understand the question. Is that fair?
`A. Yes.
`Q. You testified that you gave a deposition as an expert
` in about 1987; is that right?
`A. That's correct.
`Q. Was it a patent case?
`A. No.
`Q. What kind of case was it?
`A. Product liability case.
`Q. Do you remember the parties that were involved in that
` case?
`A. Peterson and General Motors.
`
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`(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:21)
`
`2 (Pages 6 to 9)
`Page 8
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Were you employed by General Motors at that point?
`A. I was.
`Q. And I assume you were acting as an expert on behalf of
` GM?
`A. That is correct.
`Q. Can you give me a one sentence overview of what the
` merits of that case were about?
`A. There was an elderly woman that was in a car and when
` she backed up, she hit a child and the child was
` comatose. Her counsel alleged that there was a
` malfunction on the automobile.
`Q. Do you remember what aspect of the automobile was
` alleged to have malfunctioned?
`A. The idler control system.
`Q. Did you ever give testimony at trial in that case?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Where was the venue of that case, if you remember?
`A. Springfield, Missouri.
`Q. Was it a district court case?
`A. Federal.
`Q. Did you prepare an expert report in that case?
`A. I don't think so. Boy, I was deposed in that case.
`Q. But you can't recall being shown a written report that
` you prepared during your deposition?
`
`Page 9
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. No.
`Q. Do you remember how long that deposition lasted?
`A. Three hours maybe.
`Q. Do you remember what the outcome of that case was?
`A. Yes, it was found for General Motors. General Motors
` was not liable.
`Q. Do you recall whether in that case any argument was
` made that you were biassed toward your employer?
`A. No, there was no argument made.
`Q. Do you recall what your rate per hour was in that
` case?
`A. I was not compensated other than my standard salary.
`Q. Other than that deposition, have you ever given any
` testimony of any kind in a legal proceeding?
`A. I was selected for a jury one time and I was
` cross-examined and tossed off.
`Q. Okay. Was that a patent case?
`A. No.
`Q. Have you been approached to serve as an expert witness
` since that experience in 1987?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Aside from this case, have you been approached to
` appear as an expert witness?
`A. Yes.
`
`

`

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`Page 10
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Have you declined those requests?
`A. No.
`Q. So you have served as an expert witness between that
` 1987 case and today aside from this case, right?
`A. Yes.
`Q. I think it's your testimony that you just haven't
` given a deposition in any of those cases, right?
`A. That's correct.
`Q. Have you prepared any expert reports in any of the
` cases you have been involved in between 1987 and
` today?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Were any of those cases about patent infringement?
`A. No.
`Q. Were those all products liability cases?
`A. No.
`Q. Aside from products liability, what was the subject
` matter of those cases?
`A. The subject matter is still confidential. I signed a
` confidentiality statement. Suffice it to say there's
` an international arbitration between two automotive
` companies and that's all at this point that I feel at
` liberty to discuss.
`Q. That's fair. I assume that the identity of those
`Page 11
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` companies is probably confidential as well.
`A. It is.
`Q. Can you tell me what your billing rate in those cases
` is?
`A. Yes.
`Q. What is it?
`A. $500 an hour.
`Q. What is your billing rate in this case?
`A. $350 an hour.
`Q. Is there any reason why the billing rate here is 30
` percent lower?
`A. Sequence of events.
`Q. Can you elaborate?
`A. I took this case and then I was later approached for
` the international arbitration case.
`Q. So the international arbitration case is still
` currently ongoing; is that right?
`A. Shall we say it's suspended animation.
`Q. Fair enough. Have you prepared any expert reports in
` that case?
`A. Yes.
`Q. You haven't given any deposition yet; is that right?
`A. That's correct.
`Q. Are any depositions scheduled for that case?
`(cid:19)(cid:19)(cid:22)
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`3 (Pages 10 to 13)
`Page 12
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. No deposition. What is scheduled maybe is a hearing
` in front of the arbitration board.
`Q. How did Clearlamp find you in this case, do you know?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you recall whether Clearlamp used an expert search
` firm to find you?
`A. No.
`Q. No, you don't recall?
`A. I have no idea. I was standing on a test track and I
` got a call from the counsel's associate.
`Q. Was that Mr. Robinson?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you remember the name of the person who first
` called you?
`A. Matthew Cutler.
`Q. Do you remember when Mr. Cutler called you?
`A. June of 2012.
`Q. At some point did you sign an agreement to be an
` expert in this case?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you remember when that agreement was signed?
`A. No.
`Q. Was it after June of 2012?
`A. Yes.
`
`Page 13
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Was it before September of 2012?
`A. Boy, I don't remember.
`Q. Do you recall signing what's called an undertaking in
` a district court case between LKQ and Clearlamp?
`A. I signed some documents for the legal firm. What
` exactly the technical name of those documents were,
` boy, it's beyond me.
`Q. Understood. Do you recall signing any documents that
` allowed you to see LKQ's confidential information at
` some point in the district court case?
`A. There was a nondisclosure to keep everything
` confidential, which I signed.
`Q. Do you know if by the time you signed that agreement
` you had already signed the agreement you referenced
` with the law firm in this case?
`A. I quite honestly do not remember the sequence or how
` all that went down.
`Q. Fair enough. Do you remember -- strike that.
` Approximately how many hours have you
` worked on this case from your retention to date?
`A. I guess 15 maybe, not a lot.
`Q. Have you been paid for any of those hours yet?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you remember when you received the first check for
`
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`Page 14
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` your work in this case?
`A. January of 2013.
`Q. Do you remember the date of the invoice that that
` check was for?
`A. Not exactly, but it was around the end of December
` because I set up QuickBooks. My wife is an
` accountant. She helped me. It was around then.
`Q. So in other words, you didn't ask for your payment to
` be delayed until the start of 2013?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you remember the amount of that invoice in January
` of -- strike that.
` Do you remember the amount of the check
` that you received in January of 2013?
`A. No.
`Q. Was it a few hundred dollars?
`A. No. It was more than a hundred dollars. I don't
` remember the exact number.
`Q. Okay. What's your understanding of the current matter
` for which you are giving a deposition?
`A. It's under an interparty's review.
`Q. What's your understanding of an interparty's review?
`A. The court is trying to understand the facts and
` nailing down a specific set of claims relative to the
`Page 15
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` various prior art.
`Q. Do you have an understanding that the interparty's
` review is being conducted by the United States Patent
` Office?
`A. Yes.
`Q. And so do you understand that there is a difference
` between the interparty's review that you are here for
` today and the district court case between LKQ and
` Clearlamp?
`A. I believe I do.
`Q. So do you know if the work you did in December of 2012
` was for the district court case or the interparty's
` review?
`A. To tell you the truth, I don't really know.
`Q. Do you recall the nature of that work in December of
` 2012?
`A. I've read documents, the '364 patent and then Kuta and
` the associated prior art.
`Q. So in other words, the work you did in December of
` 2012 was related to the validity of the '364 patent as
` opposed to infringement of the '364 patent?
` MR. ROBINSON: Objection, misstates
` testimony.
`BY MR. WEED:
`
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`4 (Pages 14 to 17)
`Page 16
`
` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. You can answer if you understand.
`A. I don't.
`Q. Do you understand the difference between validity and
` infringement?
`A. No.
`Q. Are you the named inventor on any U.S. patents?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you have any understanding of the basics of U.S.
` patent law?
`A. Basic, very basic, yes.
`Q. What is your very basic understanding of U.S. patent
` law?
`A. Well, the first thing you have to do is put in a
` record of intention and document it, then the
` attorneys look at it and tell you whether or not it's
` worth filing for a patent. The whole process takes a
` long time. The patent attorneys work with you and put
` together a patent.
`Q. Okay. Now, you said the attorneys tell you whether or
` not it's worth filing a patent. Do you have any
` general understanding of what would make something
` worth filing a patent on?
`A. Boy, I'm foggy on it, but my general understanding is
` that it's got a unique characteristic to it that makes
`Page 17
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` it patentable.
`Q. That's pretty good. That's pretty fair.
` So do you have an understanding then about
` whether the interparty's review that we're here for
` today is a challenge to an already issued patent?
`A. Not -- I do not understand the very, very super fine
` points of law on this subject.
`Q. Sure. So do you understand that Clearlamp accused LKQ
` of infringing the '364?
`A. Yes, I understand that.
`Q. So based on that, would it be your understanding that
` the '364 patent is an issued patent?
`A. Yes. I mean, yeah.
`Q. I'll just hand you the '364 patent so we're all on the
` same page. You can look at it if you want to.
` This is a copy of the '364 patent --
`A. Right.
`Q. -- stamped with Exhibit 1001. That's the '364 patent
` that you are referring to, right?
`A. Right.
`Q. At some point in your work for Clearlamp you created a
` declaration; is that right?
`A. That's correct.
`Q. In fact, I think you created two declarations, right?
`
`

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`Page 18
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. Right.
`Q. Let's talk about the first declaration. Do you
` remember when you submitted that declaration?
`A. In the spring.
`Q. Again, not a memory test to my questions. I'm just
` going to hand you that declaration which is marked as
` Exhibit 2004. I think if you flip to the last page of
` that declaration, you'll see that you signed it on
` July 1. Does that comport with your recollection?
`A. Yeah, my signature and my writing.
`Q. Now, after this declaration, at some point you were
` asked to create another declaration, right?
`A. Mm-hmm.
`Q. Do you remember when about you signed that
` declaration?
`A. I want to say five weeks after.
`Q. 2025, Exhibit 2025 which, I believe is the
` supplemental declaration that you signed in this case,
` right?
`A. Mm-hmm.
`Q. And that's a very short document that you signed on
` July 23, right?
`A. Right.
`Q. Do you have any sense for the amount of time, the 15
`Page 19
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` or so hours you have spent in this case, if that was
` spent on the first declaration versus the second?
`A. 98 percent of the time was spent on the first
` declaration.
`Q. And then the remainder was spent on the second
` declaration?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you recall ever looking at a video describing LKQ's
` refurbishing process?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you remember when you first saw that video?
`A. No.
`Q. Was it before your first declaration?
`A. Well, yeah.
`Q. Was it in December of 2012?
`A. I don't think -- I don't recall seeing any videos in
` December.
`Q. Would it be fair to say that you first saw that video
` in connection with your preparation of the first
` declaration?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Now, you said you have spent 15 hours or so working on
` this case to date, right?
`A. No.
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`5 (Pages 18 to 21)
`Page 20
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Okay.
`A. I think I said spent -- oh, maybe 15 hours, yeah, I
` don't know. I don't -- you know, in terms of my
` billings, this is of a smaller magnitude and I have
` not reviewed the numbers in terms of this particular
` case vis-a-vis the other revenue streams.
`Q. That's fine. I was going to ask you, can you give me
` a sense of the breakdown of time spent preparing
` declarations on the one hand and preparing for this
` deposition on the other hand?
`A. First of all, in the 15 hours, it is not included in
` preparing for the deposition at all. That is the
` number that precedes everything. So preparing for
` this, I don't know, I've spent five hours yesterday
` and some time over the weekend.
`Q. The five hours you spent yesterday, was that spent
` with Mr. Robinson?
`A. Yes, it was.
`Q. And you met with Mr. Robinson in person; is that
` right?
`A. That's correct.
`Q. Was anybody on the phone for any of those five hours?
`A. No. I misstated -- we did speak to Mike Asselta for
` five minutes.
`
`Page 21
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Mike Asselta?
`A. Yes.
`Q. What's your understanding of Mr. Asselta's role?
`A. He's the business side of Clearlamp.
`Q. Prior to your conversation with Mr. Asselta yesterday,
` have you spoken to Mr. Asselta before that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you remember when?
`A. Prior to the declaration. I would say it was probably
` in June of sometime.
`Q. Prior to the first declaration?
`A. Yes.
`Q. So aside from Mr. Asselta and Mr. Robinson, did you
` speak with anybody else in preparation for your
` deposition yesterday?
`A. No.
`Q. Then you said you spent some time over the weekend; is
` that right?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you remember approximately how long?
`A. Two hours.
`Q. Was that time spent on your own?
`A. Yes.
`Q. What were you doing for those two hours?
`
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. Reviewing all the previous documents.
`Q. What documents did you review?
`A. The declarations, the patent, the Kuta patent, the
` Butt, the Eastworks stuff. The relevant documents for
` this deposition.
`Q. I'm curious what you mean by relevant documents. Can
` you remember any specific documents aside from the
` declarations, the '364 patent, the Kuta patent, the
` Butt patent and the Eastwood reference?
`A. I looked at the Kasmerek. I have got a memory trick.
` MR. ROBINSON: Do you care if I help him
` with the guy's name?
` MR. WEED: No.
` MR. ROBINSON: Katsamberis.
`A. Katsamberis declaration.
`BY MR. WEED:
`Q. Do you remember looking at any other documents?
`A. No, I don't.
`Q. Have you seen the Katsamberis declaration before you
` reviewed it over the weekend?
`A. I believe I had.
`Q. Do you remember if you had seen a draft version of it
` or an executed version?
`A. I don't.
`
`Page 23
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Did you ever speak with Mr. Katsamberis?
`A. I have not.
`Q. Did you review any documents yesterday in addition to
` the ones you just mentioned reviewing over the
` weekend?
`A. I've reviewed the Katsamberis deposition, rough draft
` or whatever you guys called it. It hasn't been signed
` and sealed and made official or whatever.
`Q. Did you review anything else yesterday?
`A. No, not that I can remember. It was quite a bit.
`Q. So let me just make sure you -- you reviewed some
` things on the weekend that we talked about and then
` you said yesterday you reviewed Mr. Katsamberis's
` transcript as well; is that right?
`A. I think I first saw his transcript over the weekend
` too.
`Q. Okay. So was there anything that you reviewed
` yesterday that you hadn't reviewed over the weekend?
`A. I don't think so.
`Q. You didn't speak with Mr. Katsamberis yesterday,
` right?
`A. No.
`Q. Have you ever spoken with a gentleman by the name of
` Mo Paperi (ph)?
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`6 (Pages 22 to 25)
`Page 24
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. No.
`Q. Have you ever spoken with a gentleman by the name of
` Irv Rappaport?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you know the name Irv Rappaport?
`A. No.
`Q. Do you know the name know Mo Paperi?
`A. Yes.
`Q. How?
`A. He is mentioned in the patent.
`Q. He is an inventor in the patent?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you have an understanding of Mr. Paperi's role at
` Clearlamp?
`A. No.
`Q. When did you first talk with Mr. Asselta?
`A. I think in June of some time.
`Q. So you hadn't spoken with him before the time that you
` mentioned?
`A. No.
`Q. What did you talk to Mr. Asselta about?
`A. Developing a test to do a better job of illustrating
` the issues involved in the discussion.
`Q. Did you talk to Mr. Asselta about anything else?
`Page 25
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. I don't recall. It was specifically about, you know,
` we needed some tests.
`Q. Let me ask you to take a look at your supplemental
` declaration which is the document that I marked 2025.
`A. Mm-hmm.
`Q. Paragraph 5 of that declaration says I understand from
` discussions with Mike Asselta of Clearlamp that
` Exhibit 2012 submitted in this proceeding describes
` testing that was conducted in conjunction with General
` Motors and Volvo's evaluation of the --
`A. Yes.
`Q. You talked to him about that too, right?
`A. Yes. In terms of what that testing showed, we needed
` some additional testing that is present in my
` declaration. I was really driving to get the testing
` that's present in my declaration developed. That's
` the main point of the conversation.
`Q. Let me hand you what I've marked as -- what's already
` been marked as Exhibit 2012, which is a document
` referenced in paragraph 5 of your supplemental
` declaration.
`A. Okay.
`Q. You have seen this document before, right?
`A. I have.
`
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`Q. Is this the document that you were referring to in
` paragraph 5 of your supplemental declaration?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you remember when you first saw this document?
`A. Before my declaration.
`Q. Did Clearlamp's lawyers give it to you?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Did you ask them for it?
`A. No.
`Q. What did they tell you when they gave it to you; what
` did they tell you it was?
`A. Some test reports on the Clearlamp's lamps.
`Q. And then you read through the document after you
` received it; is that right?
`A. Yeah.
`Q. So --
`A. It's not the easiest document to read.
`Q. I was hoping you could help me out. Let me ask you
` the first question. Is it your understanding that
` this document, 2012, is a redacted version of
` something?
`A. Would you define redacted?
`Q. Redacted is a term that lawyers often use to describe
` covering up information because it contains
`Page 27
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` confidential information.
`A. No, I did not understand that. I did not think it was
` a redacted document.
`Q. Okay. So you don't understand that this document has
` any redactions made to it?
`A. Right.
`Q. Okay. Looking at the front page of this document,
` which is labeled as page 1, do you know what the
` phrase SPO means there? It looks like an acronym.
`A. Yes.
`Q. What does SPO stand for?
`A. It could be any number of things. Service part
` organization, which given this is a GM test procedure,
` GM has an SPO organization.
`Q. In the middle of that front page it says supplier
` submission, American Bumper, Mo Paperi. Do you see
` that?
`A. Mm-hmm.
`Q. Do you know what that means?
`A. The suppliers submitted the parts for testing.
`Q. What were the parts in this case?
`A. Head lamps.
`Q. Do you know what that phrase APOPS and then number
` means?
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`7 (Pages 26 to 29)
`Page 28
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
`A. No.
`Q. Is the Mo Paperi referenced in the middle of this page
` the inventor of the '364 patent?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Do you know what the date on this document is?
`A. I don't have it memorized, but I assume we can find
` it.
`Q. Part of the reason why I ask because it looks like
` it's a lot of different documents jammed together to
` me, so I'm not sure what the date of the compilation
` is.
`A. Well, there is a September 18 date on there in the
` report.
`Q. Of what year?
`A. It doesn't say what year. But given some of these,
` there's a 5-25-05, a 7-31-07 which well could have
` been the dates the parts were made for all I know.
`Q. If you look at page 5 of the document as it is
` numbered by those numbers in the center of the page in
` the bottom, there is a date of April of 1995, right?
`A. I go from page 4 to page 8. So color me confused.
` Did you give me everything?
`Q. Sure.
`A. I have got page 4 and I have got page 8.
`Page 29
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` MR. ROBINSON: Mine goes 4 to 8 also.
`A. Would you like your document back?
`BY MR. WEED:
`Q. No. It's fine. Okay. Let's take a look at your --
` keep in mind that document, at least the front page of
` it. Let's take a look at your declaration. Your
` initial declaration which is Exhibit 2004. Flip to
` paragraph 77 of that declaration.
` Are you there?
`A. Yes.
`Q. The last sentence of 77 says, indeed lamps refurbished
` by Clearlamp according to the '364 patent's teachings
` have been adopted by OEMs such as General Motors and
` Volvo. Do you see that?
`A. Yes.
`Q. Is that sentence referring to the information
` contained in Exhibit 2012 that we're looking at?
`A. Yes.
`Q. How do you know that the lamps referenced in 2012 were
` refurbished by Clearlamp according to the '364
` patent's teachings?
`A. There is some reference in the reports to Mo's part
` and so in that this was supplied and there was a
` reference to Mo's part in there, then that established
`
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` A. HARVEY BELL, IV
` the linkage.
`Q. So your opinion --
`A. See here on page 9, down here there's Mo's lamps?
`Q. Yes.
`A. Okay.
`Q. So your testimony is that you can tell the '364
` patent's teachings are applied in this report because
` it says Mo's headlamp?
`A. Did I see videos of Mo's headlamp or anything? The
` fact that it says Mo's headlamp and it was submitted
` as part of the proceedings, that was my conclusion.
`Q. Okay. Do you remember what kind of material the
` buffing pad that was used to buff Mo's lamps was?
`A. No.
`Q. But the '364 patent t