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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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` INTELLECTUAL VENTURES )
` MANAGEMENT, LLC, )
` Petitioner, )
` ) CASE NO. IPR2012-00023
` VS. ) Patent 7,994,609
` )
` XILINX, INC., )
` Patent Owner )
` ****************************************
`
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
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` RICHARD A. BLANCHARD, Ph.D.
`
` August 9, 2013
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` ****************************************
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` ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION OF RICHARD A.
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`BLANCHARD, Ph.D., produced as a witness at the instance of
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`the Petitioner, taken in the above-styled and -numbered
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`cause on the 9th day of August, 2013, from 8:34 a.m. to
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`12:30 p.m., before Jamie K. Israelow, a Certified
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`Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas,
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`Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter
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`and Certified LiveNote Reporter, reported in machine
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`shorthand at the offices of Haynes and Boone, LLP,
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`located at 2505 North Plano Road, Suite 4000, in the
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`City of Richardson, County of Dallas and State of Texas.
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`Ref. No.: 10065A
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`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` INTELLECTUAL VENTURES )
` MANAGEMENT, LLC, )
` Petitioner, )
` ) CASE NO. IPR2012-00023
` VS. ) Patent 7,994,609
` )
` XILINX, INC., )
` Patent Owner )
` ****************************************
`
` ORAL AND VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
` RICHARD A. BLANCHARD, Ph.D.
`
` August 9, 2013
`
` ****************************************
`
` ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION OF RICHARD A.
`
`BLANCHARD, Ph.D., produced as a witness at the instance of
`
`the Petitioner, taken in the above-styled and -numbered
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`cause on the 9th day of August, 2013, from 8:34 a.m. to
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`12:30 p.m., before Jamie K. Israelow, a Certified
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`Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas,
`
`Registered Merit Reporter, Certified Realtime Reporter
`
`and Certified LiveNote Reporter, reported in machine
`
`shorthand at the offices of Haynes and Boone, LLP,
`
`located at 2505 North Plano Road, Suite 4000, in the
`
`City of Richardson, County of Dallas and State of Texas.
`
`Ref. No.: 10065A
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`
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`Page 2
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`FOR THE PETITIONER:
`
` Lori A. Gordon, Esq.
` Salvador M. Bezos, Esq.
` Omar F. Amin, Esq.
` STERNE, KESSLER, GOLDSTEIN & FOX
` 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20005
` 202.371.2600
` E-mail: lgordon@skgf.com
` E-mail: sbezos@skgf.com
` E-mail: oamin@skgf.com
`
` -- and --
`
` Don Coulman, Esq.
` INTELLECTUAL VENTURES
` 3150 139th Avenue SE, Building 4
` Bellevue, Washington 98005
` 425.677.2973
` E-mail: dcoulman@intven.com
`
`FOR THE PATENT OWNER:
`
` David M. O'Dell, Esq.
` HAYNES AND BOONE, LLP
` 2505 North Plano Road, Suite 4000
` Richardson, Texas 75082-4101
` 972.739.8635
` E-mail: david.odell@haynesboone.com
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`ALSO PRESENT:
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` Alex Downing, videographer
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`Page 3
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` INDEX
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`Appearances 2
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`RICHARD A. BLANCHARD, Ph.D.
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` EXAMINATION BY MS. GORDON 5
` EXAMINATION BY MR. O'DELL 92
` EXAMINATION BY MS. GORDON 93
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` Corrections and Signature 97
` Reporter's Certificate 99
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` EXHIBITS
`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
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`1 Petitioner Intellectual Ventures' Notice of 8
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` Deposition of Richard A. Blanchard, Ph.D..
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`2 Declaration of Richard A. Blanchard, Ph.D.. 11
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` under 37 C.F.R. ยง 1.68
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`3 Curriculum Vitae of Richard A. Blanchard, 18
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` Ph.D..
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`4 United States Patent 7,994,609 39
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`5 United States Patent 6,737,698 44
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`6 United States Patent 7,439,570 B2 48
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`7 Declaration of Morgan Johnson in Support of 81
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` Petition for Inter Parties of U.S. Patent
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` No. 7,994,609
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` P R O C E E D I N G S
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` (On the record at 8:34 a.m.)
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is Tape Number 1
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`of the videotaped deposition of Dr. Richard A. Blanchard
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`in the case styled Intellectual Ventures Management,
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`LLC, Petitioner, versus Xilinx, Incorporated, Patent
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`Owner. The case is IPR2012-00023. The patent number is
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`7,994,609. Today's date is August 9th, 2013, and the
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`current time is 8:34 a.m.
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` Will the counsel please introduce
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`themselves, and then the court reporter will swear in
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`the witness.
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` MS. GORDON: Lori Gordon from the law firm
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`of Sterne, Kessler, Goldstein & Fox, representing the
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`petitioner, Intellectual Ventures Management. With me
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`today are Omar Amin and Sal Bezos, also from the law
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`firm of Sterne, Kessler, Goldstein & Fox, and Don
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`Coulman from Intellectual Ventures Management, the
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`petitioner.
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` MR. O'DELL: My name is David O'Dell from
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`the law firm Haynes and Boone, and we represent the
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`patent owner, Xilinx.
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` RICHARD A. BLANCHARD, Ph.D.,
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`having been first duly sworn, testified as follows:
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` EXAMINATION
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`BY MS. GORDON:
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` Q. Good morning. Would you please state your full
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`name for the record.
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` A. Yes. It's Richard Austin Blanchard.
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` Q. Okay. My name is Lori Gordon, and I'm going to
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`be taking your deposition today. Have you ever been
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`deposed before?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. How many times?
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` A. I don't remember.
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` Q. Okay. Do you remember approximately how many
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`times?
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` A. No.
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` Q. In the past six months, have you ever been
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`deposed before?
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` A. I don't believe in the last six months, but I
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`don't remember for sure.
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` Q. Okay. How about in the last year? Do you
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`recall being deposed?
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` A. Possibly. Again, I don't remember the date
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`when I was last deposed.
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` Q. Okay. In what matters have you been deposed
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`in?
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` A. Well, that's on my resume. There's a copy of
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`that. I'll certainly go over it with you. I'm not
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`quite sure the information you're seeking. I've been
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`deposed in the last 20 years in a number of different
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`subjects or topics.
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` Q. Okay. So we'll come back to that later.
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` Before we begin, I'd like to go over some
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`general ground rules for this deposition. Does that
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`sound fair to you?
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` A. Yes. I'd appreciate it.
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` Q. Okay. So you understand that you're going to
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`be testifying under oath today?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Okay. And as part of your oath, you understand
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`that you are here to testify fully and accurately and to
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`the best of your knowledge?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. And as part of this deposition, I'll be
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`asking you questions, and my questions and your answers
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`are going to be recorded by the court reporter. You
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`understand that you'll need to speak up and answer the
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`questions orally when I ask them?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Okay. Now, on occasion, I may ask you a
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`question that is unclear to you. If that is ever the
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`case, please let me know and I'll try to rephrase my
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`question. Does that sound fair to you?
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` A. It does.
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` Q. Now, as we discussed, the videotapes are
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`approximately an hour, so we'd like to plan to take a
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`break every hour. Is that acceptable to you?
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` A. Yes. Thank you.
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` Q. Okay. And if you need a break before then,
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`just let your attorney know, and we'll finish the
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`pending question and we'll take a break when you need
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`that.
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` A. Thank you.
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` Q. Okay. Is there any reason that you can think
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`of that you will not be able to provide accurate
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`testimony today?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay. Thank you.
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` So I'd like to hand you what's been marked
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`as Exhibit Number 1.
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` MS. GORDON: So, David, I guess before we
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`go on, do you want me to hand you the exhibits first or
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`hand them directly to him?
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` MR. O'DELL: You can hand them directly
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`to --
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` MS. GORDON: Okay.
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` MR. O'DELL: -- Mr. Blanchard.
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` (Exhibit 1 was marked.)
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` Q. (By Ms. Gordon) This is Exhibit 1,
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`Dr. Blanchard. Please take a moment to review this
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`document and let me know when you're ready.
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` A. (Witness perusing document.)
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` I've quickly looked at this. Is there
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`anything in particular you'd like me to look at?
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` Q. Nothing particular.
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` Have you seen this document before today?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay. Do you understand that you are here
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`pursuant to a deposition notice?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. I do notice it says the deposition will start
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`at 9:00.
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` Q. Yeah. We negotiated with your attorney after
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`we filed this to accommodate your schedule to start
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`earlier.
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` A. Great. Thank you.
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` Q. Okay. If you turn to the front page of the
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`notice, you see the case IPR2012-0023[sic], Patent
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`Number 7,994,609.
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. And do you understand that this deposition
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`today covers the direct testimony you provided via
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`declaration in this case?
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` A. That's my understanding.
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` Q. Okay. Did you prepare for this deposition
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`today?
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` A. Yes, I did.
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` Q. And how did you prepare for this deposition?
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` A. I did several things: First, I read the
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`material associated with this patent and, certainly, the
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`patent itself. Then, as you know, there's some material
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`associated with this -- let's just call it "case." I
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`either read or reviewed that. And then yesterday, I met
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`with Mr. O'Dell, the gentleman to my left, for part of
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`the day and reviewed case material for the other part of
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`the day.
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` Q. Okay. And you mentioned that you read
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`materials. What materials did you read?
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` A. I believe it's the material that's listed
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`inside my report. If you look, there's a list of
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`materials. I read or reviewed some or all of that.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. There's also a response or reply by Xilinx. I
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`reviewed that yesterday.
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` Q. Okay. And other than the materials listed in
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`your declaration and the reply by Xilinx, did you review
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`any other materials?
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` A. Not that I specifically recall.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. I'm just trying to remember what's on that
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`list. I believe it was -- except what's on the list, it
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`would have been a reply, and I believe there's a request
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`for -- on this patent, there's a request for new claims.
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` Q. Okay. The motion to amend?
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` A. That would have been it. Thank you.
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` Q. Okay. And outside of Mr. O'Dell and any other
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`attorneys, did you speak to anyone else in preparation
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`for this deposition?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay. And were there any documents that you
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`wanted to review in preparation for this document --
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`deposition but did not have access to?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. Okay. And was there anyone that you wanted to
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`speak to to prepare for this deposition but were unable
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`to?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. Would you like me to hand these (indicating)
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`back to my -- hand them to my attorney or hand them to
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` Q. No.
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` MR. O'DELL: We can leave them in a stack
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`in case you need to refer to them again.
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` THE WITNESS: Great. Thank you.
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` MS. GORDON: So could you mark this one
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`Exhibit Number 2.
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` (Exhibit 2 was marked.)
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` Q. (By Ms. Gordon) You've been handed what's been
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`marked as Blanchard Exhibit Number 2. Take a few
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`minutes to look through this document and let me know
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`when you're ready.
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` A. (Witness perusing document.)
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` I'm ready.
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` Q. Okay. And is this the declaration that -- let
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`me start that question again.
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` Did you draft this declaration?
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` A. I did.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. I, in -- in some instances, for instance, with
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`regards to the relevant legal standards, I relied on
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`counsel.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. That -- that was -- part was provided to me. I
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`am not an attorney.
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` Q. Okay. I understand.
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` But the rest of the sections, outside of
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`the legal standard sections, you drafted those sections?
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` A. I drafted them in conjunction with Mr. O'Dell.
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`I provided the information; he transcribed it and then
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`returned it to me to review.
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` Q. Okay. So Mr. O'Dell transcribed the
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`declaration for you?
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` A. In the sense of: We discussed it; he provided
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`a copy, as I stated. In addition, there's a front part
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`that provides information on my background, education,
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`such as that, and I provided that and -- as part of a
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`more extens- -- part of a more extensive resume that I
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`have.
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` Q. Okay. And you when were contacted first by
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`Xilinx or Mr. O'Dell to provide your expert opinion in
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`this matter?
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` A. I don't remember the exact date, but it was
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`about the middle of April.
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` Q. Of this year?
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` A. Of this year. I'm sorry.
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` Q. Okay. And roughly how many hours did you spend
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`preparing this declaration?
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` A. I don't remember.
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` Q. Okay. Do you have any rough idea of how many
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`hours it would have been?
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` A. Not really. It was several months back.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. I just don't remember.
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` Q. Okay. And do you submit invoices for your
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`work?
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` A. Yes, I do.
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` Q. Okay. And would your invoices reflect how much
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`time you spent preparing for this deposition?
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` A. You just changed subjects on me. Preparing for
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`the deposition or --
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` Q. I mean preparing for the declaration. I'm
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`sorry. Thank you.
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` A. It would.
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` Q. Okay. And do you have these invoices in your
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`possession?
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` A. They would be in a file cabinet, either in my
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`office or in another office.
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` Q. And have you sent these invoices to Mr. O'Dell?
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` A. No. I submit invoices to the Thomson Reuters
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`Expert Witness Service. They then forward them on --
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`it's my understanding they forward them on to Haynes
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`Boone and we probably directed it to Mr. O'Dell, but I
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`don't get involved in that.
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` Q. Okay. And outside of your -- the attorneys in
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`this case, did you work with anyone else in the
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`preparation of this declaration?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Dr. Blanchard, are you currently employed?
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` A. I am --
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` THE REPORTER: I'm sorry. Are you
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`currently what?
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` MS. GORDON: Employed.
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` A. Just in my own company, Blanchard Associates.
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` Q. (By Ms. Gordon) And when did you start
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`Blanchard Associates?
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` A. That was in 1990/1991 time frame. However,
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`just so there's no confusion, soon after, within six
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`months of forming Blanchard Associates, I joined another
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`company called -- at that time, it was called "Failure
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`Analysis Associates." It changed its name to Exponent
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`Failure Analysis. And I worked with them full-time
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`until 1998. So from sometime in 1991 till 1998, I --
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`while Blanchard Associates was still in existence, I
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`didn't perform any work for them. So it was only later
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`that I began working through Blanchard Associates again.
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` Q. Okay. And if you turn to Page --
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`Paragraph 13 --
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` A. 13.
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` Q. -- the calculations.
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` A. Right.
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` Q. In this paragraph -- would you read
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`Paragraph 13 for me, and let me know when you're ready.
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` A. (Witness perusing document.)
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` I've read it.
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` Q. Okay. And in this paragraph, you mentioned
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`that in 1998, you joined a company -- or a group called
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`"IP Managers" --
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. -- which is now known as Thomson Reuters Expert
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`Witness Services.
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` A. Also correct.
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` Q. Do you currently work for Thomson Reuters
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`Expert Witness Services?
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` A. I provide consulting within -- it's associated
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`with legal cases through Thomson Reuters, but other
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`consulting that isn't of a legal nature is not through
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`Thomson Reuters.
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` Q. Okay. And the legal consulting that you
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`perform through Thomson Reuters Witness Services [sic],
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`is any of that consulting related to patent work?
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` A. Yes. Such as this project, it is.
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` Q. Okay. And how much of that legal consulting
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`work involves patents?
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` A. It is hard to estimate it. It varies. More
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`than 25, less than 75 percent, but I -- it will change
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`month to month.
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` Q. Okay. And other than patent work, what other
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`type of legal consulting do you do for Thomson Reuters?
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` A. Well, when I was at Exponent Failure Analysis,
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`I investigated accidents/failures that resulted in
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`losses of some sort: Losses of equipment, buildings,
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`injury to people, in some cases, death. And so I've
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`investigated the electrical/electronic failures that led
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`to these, and I still perform some of those services,
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`either through Failure Analysis Associates, who I'm
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`still associated with on a consulting basis, or through
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`other -- or through Thomson Reuters.
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` So in addition to what I call
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`"intellectual property/patent-related, trade
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`secret-related legal projects," there are projects that
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`are associated with failure analysis, failures and the
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`consequences of those failures.
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` Q. Okay. And how much -- what percentage of your
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`time currently do you estimate that you spend on legal
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`consulting?
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` A. Again, that varies. I would estimate somewhere
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`in the range of 25 to 50 percent of the time and --
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`probably more like 15 to 40 percent of the time, and
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`that's an estimate.
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` Q. Okay. When you say "15 to 40 percent," would
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`that be an estimate for the last 12 months?
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` A. That may be a reasonable estimate. Actually,
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`if you wanted a more definite number, I'd have to check
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`timesheets and such as that.
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` Q. Okay. And have you ever worked as an expert in
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`any patent-related reexaminations in front of the United
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`States Patent and Trademark Office?
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` A. Yes, I believe so.
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` Q. Okay. Can you recall what technologies that
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`those were related to?
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` A. Reexaminations? There was -- I recall one that
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`was a reexamination. It was flash memory technology.
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`Let's see. Reexaminations. I suspect there are others,
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`but I don't remember any other reexaminations at the
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`moment. I mean, give me just a minute to think. I'm
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`just going back.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. Actually, if you have a copy of my resume, that
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`might help jog my memory.
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` Q. Okay.
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` MS. GORDON: We'll mark this Exhibit 3 for
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`the record.
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` And you're being handed what's going to be
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`marked as Exhibit 3, which is a copy of your CV.
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` (Exhibit 3 was marked.)
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` THE WITNESS: Thank you.
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` A. I'm going to take a minute and just review a
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`section that lists --
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` Q. (By Ms. Gordon) Okay.
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` A. -- the projects I've worked on in the last
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`three years or so.
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` (Witness perusing document.)
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` This does not appear to be a full copy of
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`my CV. It doesn't list the projects I've worked on in
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`the last -- generally, there's a list of projects. It's
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`not -- wasn't on this one.
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` Let me -- in the interim, I thought of a
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`couple of other reexaminations. There's another one
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`that dealt with packaging for power devices, another one
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`that dealt with -- if I recall correctly, it was
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`actually the power devices.
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` Those come to mind, but again, no others.
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`If I remember others, should I stop you during the
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`course of this deposition?
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` Q. Yes. Please do.
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` Now, you mentioned you worked on a reexam
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`for the packaging for power devices. Did you represent
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`the patent holder in that case?
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` A. If I recall correctly -- and I'm trying to
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`remember whether it was the reexam or whether something
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`is valid or invalid. For the packaging, it was a patent
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`dispute, and I worked for one of the parties. I don't
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`remember who initiated it, whether it was a reexam or
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`just a validity issue.
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` Q. Okay. And what party did you work for in that
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`case?
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` A. You want the name of the company?
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` Q. Yes.
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` A. It was a company called IXYS, I-X-Y-S.
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` Q. And for the flash memory matter that you
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`mentioned, what party did you represent in that matter?
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` A. The company that I represented to counsel for
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`us was Atmel, A-t-m-e-l.
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` Q. And have you represented Xilinx in any other
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`patent-related matters?
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` A. I don't believe so.
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` Q. And you said that you have a more complete
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`version of your curriculum vitae?
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` A. I believe there is one. Thomson Reuters, I
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`believe, keeps it. It also lists the projects that I've
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`worked on within the last three to five years. In
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`looking through this, I didn't see that information was
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`present. Let me look one more time. I mean, it lists
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`patents and publications, but it doesn't list -- it
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`doesn't list the legal projects that I've worked on.
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` MS. GORDON: So, Mr. O'Dell, we'd like a
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`complete copy of Mr. -- Dr. Blanchard's CV that lists
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`the legal matters he's worked on --
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` MR. O'DELL: Okay.
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` MS. GORDON: -- to the extent that they're
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`not covered by privilege.
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` Q. (By Ms. Gordon) Okay. Would you please turn
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`to Paragraph 4 of your declaration, and if you would
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`read that paragraph. Let me know when you finish.
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` A. (Witness perusing document.)
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` I've read Paragraph 4.
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` Q. And the first sentence states: I am familiar
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`with and am a practitioner of the technology at issue.
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`When you say "technology at issue," would you please
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`define that for me.
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` A. It would -- in the case of the example of the
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`'309, it's the fabrication of fasteners and the
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`multi- -- multiple layers of metals that are used in
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`integrated circuits, so it has to do with the design of
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`capacitor -- capacitance, shielding, things of that
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`nature, and multi-layer metal and fabrication sequence.
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` Q. Okay. Just for clarity of the record, you
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`stated the '309, but you were referring to --
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` A. I'm sorry.
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` Q. -- the '609?
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` A. I misspoke. I apologize.
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` Q. No, no problem. I just want to make sure we
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`have a clear record.
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` And related to the technology that you
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`just defined, which is the fabrication of the capacitor,
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`the design of the capacitor, what specific work have you
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`done in that area?
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` A. Well, I've designed capacitors since very early
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`in my career. The first project I worked on included a
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`capacitor. It was a specific type for integrating
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`charge as the -- in this case, a photo detector received
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`light as part of a photographic system.
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` I've worked with capacitors over the
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`years. Within the last two or three years, I've worked
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`on three projects that have involved capacitors.
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`They've all been of a legal nature. They had to do
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`with -- one of them had to do with finding the prior art
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`for a multi-layer capacitor that's very similar to the
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`capacitor that's shown in one of the figures on the
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`'609.
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` The second patent -- I'm sorry -- the
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`second project was similar, in that it -- the patent
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`owner had alleged that a company was using his specific
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`patent, the capacitor patent. And in this instance, as
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`opposed to looking for -- just looking for prior art, it
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`was analyzing the patent to determine what was actually
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`claimed. So it was -- I spent more -- more time -- or
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`as much time looking at the claims and specification to
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`determine what the claims actually entailed.
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` And the third one was a project I worked
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`on a little more recently. It had to do with pads that
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`are -- were designed to be low-noise pads on integrated
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`circuits, and as such, one wanted to minimize the
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`capacitors, but also shield these pads from noise from
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`the substrate or surrounding leads or other pads. So it
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`had to do with coupling, including capacitor coupling,
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`from other places in the circuit.
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` Also, as I said, I designed capacitors or
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`used capacitors in integrated circuits over -- over the
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`years.
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` Q. Okay. Was that all the paperwork that you
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`recall at this time?
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` A. That's what comes to mind. If I -- again, if I
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`think of something else, I'll -- I'll mention it.
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` Q. Okay. Let's circle back to the first item that
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`you mentioned. I think you mentioned you designed a
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`capacitor early in your career that was -- is that
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`correct?
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` A. That's correct. Or I won't say that I designed
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`it. The first version was already designed, and it was
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`there. I had to characterize it, make sure it worked in
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`the fab. I don't remember if the layout existed at the
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`time or whether I was involved in the layout. This was
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`a number of years ago. The second-generation version, I
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`was involved in the layout. There are two versions, the
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`first and the second generation, of this system.
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` Q. And what company did you design a capacitor
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`for?
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` A. I was working with -- at Fairchild
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`Semiconductor at the time. The project was a project
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`for Polaroid camera company.
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` Q. And was that capacitor ever brought to market?
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` A. Yes, it was.
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` Q. And did that have a product specification or a
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`product name?
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` A. Yes. It was the Polaroid SX-70 camera. It was
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`the electronics that essentially looked at the amount of
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`light and then determined the exposure, so that it
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`opened a shutter, kept it open for a period of time,
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`closed the shutter, so the film was neither under- nor
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`overexposed.
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` Q. And did you retain any design documents related
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`to that capacitor?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. That was a long time ago. I have an SX-70
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`camera, however. I still field test it, so --
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` Q. Okay. Now, you also mentioned in the past two
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`to three years there were several projects, and the
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`first one you mentioned was a project regarding finding
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`prior art.
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. Okay. And who -- what company or entity did
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`you represent in that project?
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` A. As best I recall, it was MIPS, M-I-P-S. It's a
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`computer manufacturer -- really, an integrated circuit
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`manufacturer that I believe has since been purchased,
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`but I don't remember for sure.
`
` Q. Okay. And as part of this, do you recall what
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`patent you were searching for prior art against?
`
` A. I don't remember the number. I think it was
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`Akasa, but I don't -- again, it's a little -- a little
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`vague.
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` Q. Okay. And can you spell Kasa [sic]?
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` A. I think it's something like A-k-a-s-a-u [sic]
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`or something like that.
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` Q. Okay. And I believe you testified that the
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`capacitor in the patent was similar to the '609; is that
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`correct?
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` A. Well, it's similar to one of the ones that's
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`shown in the '609 --
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. -- one of the figures in the '609, in that it
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`was fingers that were interdigitated and offset every
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`layer as you went upward.
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` Q. Okay. And did you find the prior art related
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`to that patent?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. Okay. And did you retain a listing of that
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`prior art?
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` A. I don't know. I've moved twice since then.
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`And every time I move, I try to get rid of old material,
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`so I don't remember.
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` Q. Okay. Would this legal representation -- would
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`this be a representation that would be listed on your
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`full CV?
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` A. I don't believe so, because I didn't either
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`testify or write a report. Normally, the requirements
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`for listing the projects I've worked on for federal
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`cases says that either presented a -- completed a report
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`or testified either in deposition or in trial, so I did
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`none of those on that project.
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` Q. Okay. And do you recall the filing date of the
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`Kasau patent that you were searching for prior art
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`related to?
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` A. It was in the early to mid-'90s. I don't
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`recall the exact date.
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` Q. Okay. But it was a -- was a patent that would
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`have predated the '609 patent?
`
` A. Correct.
`
` Q. Now, you also mentioned another representation
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`where you were -- you were also looking for prior art,
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`and you were looking at the claims and the
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`specifications.
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` A. Right.
`
` Q. What company did you represent in that matter?
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` A. I'm trying to remember if I signed a
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`nondisclosure --
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` Q. Okay.
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` A. -- in these. You know, some of these are --
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`are undertaken under nondisclosure, and that may have
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`been. I just don't remember. So unless there's a need,
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`I prefer not to specifically identify the company. I
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`can say it was a -- a Japanese company.
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` Q. Okay. And did you provide testimony or a
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`declaration for them in that matter?
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` A. No, I did not.
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` Q. Okay. And was the technology related to the
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`technology of the '609 patent?
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` A. It was related in that it was, again, a
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`multi-layer capacitor that had alternating rows of --
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`that were the two plates of the capacitor.
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` Q. Okay. And was the -- the patent at issue in
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`that case, when was the filing date of that patent?
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` A. It was actually the same patent that I worked
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`the first project on. It was just a -- a different
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`client.
`
` Q. Okay. Now, the third matter you mentioned
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`related to pads --
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` A. Cor
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