Case 1:15-cv-00262-SLR-SRF Document 62-1 Filed 12/06/16 Page 2 of 154 PageID #: 1050
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` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE DISTRICT OF DELAWARE
` - - -
`IMPROVED SEARCH, LLC, )
` )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) Civ. No. 15-262-SLR
` )
`AOL, INC., )
` )
` Defendant. )
` - - -
` THURSDAY, DECEMBER 1, 2016
` - - -
` The deposition of JAIME CARBONELL, Ph.D., called
`as a witness by the Defendant, pursuant to notice and
`the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure pertaining to the
`taking of depositions, taken before me, the
`undersigned, Rebecca L. Schnur, Notary Public in and
`for the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, at the offices of
`Cohen & Grigsby, 625 Liberty Avenue, 5th Floor,
`Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15222, commencing
`at 10:30 a.m. the day and date above set forth.
` - - -
`
` Job No. CS2492798
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`Case 1:15-cv-00262-SLR-SRF Document 62-1 Filed 12/06/16 Page 3 of 154 PageID #: 1051
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`1 APPEARANCES:
`2 On behalf of the Plaintiff:
`3 Robert J. Yorio, Esquire
` Carr Ferrell, LLP
`4 120 Constitution Drive
` Menlo Park, CA 94025
`5 650.812.3453
` yorio@carrferrell.com
`
`6
`
` On behalf of the Defendant:
`
`7
`
` Melissa Collins, Esquire
`8 Samuel Bryant Davidoff, Esquire
` Williams & Connolly, LLP
`9 725 Twelfth Street, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20005
`10 202.434.5648
` mcollins@wc.com
`11 sdavidoff@wc.com
`12 - - -
`13 I-N-D-E-X
`14 EXAMINATION BY: PAGE:
`15 Ms. Collins 3
`16 Mr. Yorio 136
`17 - - -
`18 EXHIBIT INDEX
`19 DEPOSITION EXHIBIT MARKED
`20 Exhibit 1 Declaration of Jaime 3
` Carbonell, Ph.D.
`21 Exhibit 2 CV 4
`Exhibit 3 '101 Patent 9
`22 Exhibit 4 '154 Patent 10
`23
`24
`25 - - -
`
`Page 3
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`1 JAIME CARBONELL, Ph.D.,
`2 called as a witness by the Defendant, having been first
`3 duly sworn, as hereinafter certified, was deposed and
`4 testified as follows:
`5 EXAMINATION
`6 BY MS. COLLINS:
`7 Q. Good morning. My name is Melissa Collins
`8 from Williams & Connolly on behalf of defendant AOL.
`9 With me today is Sam Davidoff also with Williams &
`10 Connolly.
`11 Can you please state your full name for the
`12 record.
`13 A. Yes. Good morning. My name is Jaime
`14 Carbonell. J-a-i-m-e, C-a-r-b-o-n-e-l-l.
`15 Q. And I understand you've been retained as an
`16 expert witness in this case by Improved Search?
`17 A. That's correct, by the firm representing
`18 Improved Search.
`19 MS. COLLINS: And if I could ask the
`20 court reporter to mark Exhibit 1 --
`21 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit 1 was marked
`22 for identification.)
`23 MS. COLLINS: I'll hand that to you, to your
`24 counsel.
`25 Q. Do you recognize this?
`
`Page 4
`1 A. It appears to be my report. Let me peruse
`2 it.
`3 Yes, it is my report.
`4 Q. This is a declaration you submitted in
`5 support of claim construction. Right?
`6 A. That's correct.
`7 Q. Have you ever been an expert witness before?
`8 A. Yes, I have.
`9 Q. About how many times?
`10 A. Do you count the times I went to trial or the
`11 times I went to deposition or the times that I was
`12 retained and then there was an agreement and so not
`13 much happened?
`14 Q. We can talk about all of those briefly.
`15 A. I have different counts for each one.
`16 Q. Right.
`17 How many cases have you testified at trial
`18 in?
`19 A. Before a judge or jury, four, if we do not
`20 count another hearing that wasn't exactly a trial.
`21 Q. And are all of those -- I'll give you this as
`22 well.
`23 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit 2 was marked
`24 for identification.)
`25 Q. Handing you Exhibit 2, can you take a look at
`Page 5
`
`1 that.
`2 Do you recognize that?
`3 A. This is an abbreviated CV, and the second is
`4 the list of cases that I served as an expert witness
`5 on, not counting some where I was retained and then
`6 there was a settlement before I did anything. So the
`7 ones where I did nothing and didn't bill are not
`8 listed.
`9 Q. So this CV in Exhibit 2 lists all of the
`10 cases for which you have either been deposed or
`11 testified --
`12 A. No.
`13 Q. -- at trial?
`14 A. No. It lists all the ones in the last
`15 six-plus years.
`16 Q. About -- approximately how many cases did you
`17 testify at trial or give a deposition in prior to that
`18 time?
`19 A. It's not that many. Maybe three, four.
`20 Q. Okay. Thank you.
`21 So I understand you received your Ph.D. from
`22 Yale University. Is that correct?
`23 A. That's correct.
`24 Q. And what is your current employment?
`25 A. It's Carnegie Mellon University.
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`1 Q. What is your position there?
`2 A. Well, I have two positions. Academic
`3 position is university professor, and my administrative
`4 position is director of the Language Technologies
`5 Institute.
`6 Q. So what subject matter, generally, is this?
`7 A. It's language technologies. And let me
`8 elaborate. It comprises search engines. It comprises
`9 machine translation. It comprises speech recognition.
`10 It comprises text mining. It comprises computational
`11 linguistics and some other related fields.
`12 Q. Do you have what -- do you consider yourself
`13 to have a specialty, an academic specialty?
`14 A. I have -- essentially, yes, but it's not a
`15 single one. It's two or three.
`16 Q. Okay.
`17 A. It would be search engines, machine
`18 translation and machine learning. Those are the three
`19 areas that I work in the most and where I have the
`20 majority of my publications and academic recognition.
`21 Q. By "search engines," what does that mean in
`22 terms of being a specialty area?
`23 A. It's the design of a search engine, like the
`24 Google search engine, although I did not participate
`25 specifically in that one. I participated, for
`
`1 state that you're the author or coauthor on more than
`2 330 technical papers. And this is in paragraph 6.
`3 A. That statement is correct. You have here an
`4 abridged version of my CV. There's a longer one that
`5 has the entire list.
`6 Q. Right.
`7 A. It's a little boring.
`8 Q. Were any of those papers on cross-language
`9 search?
`10 A. Yes, including one which was awarded the
`11 IJCAI, which stands for International Joint Conference
`12 on Artificial Intelligence Best Paper Award.
`13 Q. Aside from that paper, how many other papers
`14 have you worked on that involved cross-language search?
`15 A. I couldn't give you the exact number. A
`16 handful.
`17 Q. A handful, so less than ten?
`18 A. Probably less than ten, yes.
`19 I've also worked on multilingual search and
`20 other things which are highly related. If you do not
`21 include those, that statement is correct.
`22 Q. So what's the difference, in your mind,
`23 between multilingual search and cross-language search?
`24 A. In a cross-language search, you type the
`25 query in one language and you search -- you translate
`
`Page 7
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`Page 9
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`1 instance, in the Lycos search engine, which was a
`2 precursor to Google. The primary inventor there was my
`3 Ph.D. student, Michael Mauldin. And I have worked in
`4 the Condor search engine, which was a multilingual
`5 search engine, and a few others I've consulted. And I
`6 teach courses in search engines, including search
`7 engine optimization.
`8 Q. I just didn't catch the name of what you
`9 described as a multilingual search engine.
`10 A. It's one called Condor.
`11 Q. Condor.
`12 And you were --
`13 A. That's an example of one of the search
`14 engines that I have worked on.
`15 Q. Did you work on the development of that
`16 search engine?
`17 A. I worked on the design, the development, and
`18 the testing.
`19 Q. And any particular aspects of the design and
`20 development?
`21 A. Yes, the indexing scheme, the selection of
`22 terms to be indexed, the multilingual support. It
`23 worked in English, Korean, and was later extended to
`24 Chinese and some other languages.
`25 Q. I see from your declaration, Exhibit 1, you
`
`1 the query -- or actually, some of the techniques are
`2 more complex than just translating the query, but to
`3 stay on the simple level, translate the query into one
`4 or more second, third, fourth languages. Then you use
`5 the translated query to search documents in those
`6 languages. You return those documents back and you
`7 translate the content of those documents back into the
`8 first language. That whole process is a translingual
`9 search.
`10 Multilingual search contains parts of that
`11 process but not necessarily the entire process.
`12 Q. Does multilingual search involve translation?
`13 A. Parts of it does, yes.
`14 Q. What parts?
`15 A. When you're doing multilingual search, you're
`16 searching multiple different languages, but you don't
`17 necessarily translate the documents back into the
`18 original language, for example.
`19 Q. Are you familiar with the patents-in-suit in
`20 this case, the patents that Improved Search has sued
`21 AOL on?
`22 A. If you're referring to the '101 and the -- I
`23 believe -- '154, that is correct.
`24 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit 3 was marked
`25 for identification.)
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`Case 1:15-cv-00262-SLR-SRF Document 62-1 Filed 12/06/16 Page 5 of 154 PageID #: 1053
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`1 Q. Handing you Exhibit 3, do you recognize that?
`2 A. Yes, I do.
`3 Q. Is that U.S. Patent Number 6,604,101?
`4 A. That's correct. That's the one I was
`5 referring to as the '101.
`6 Q. So if we use the term "'101 patent" today, we
`7 both understand that that's referring to Exhibit 3?
`8 A. Yes, ma'am.
`9 (Whereupon, Deposition Exhibit 4 was marked
`10 for identification.)
`11 Q. I'm handing you Exhibit 4. Do you recognize
`12 that?
`13 A. Yes. This is the one I referred to as the
`14 '154.
`15 Q. And that's U.S. Patent 7,516,154?
`16 A. Yes.
`17 Q. So if we refer to the '154 patent, we're both
`18 talking about Exhibit 4. Correct?
`19 A. Correct.
`20 Q. And if I refer to the term the
`21 "patents-in-suit" or just "the patents," will you
`22 understand that I'm referring to both the '154 and the
`23 '101 patent, as we talk today?
`24 A. If that's how you wish to label it, yes, I
`25 understand that.
`
`Page 12
`1 Q. Is the term "content word" defined anywhere
`2 in the patents?
`3 A. "Content word" is a term in the art, commonly
`4 used. I don't know the patents offer a definition or
`5 just simply use it and give examples of it.
`6 Q. Can you point me to any examples of the term
`7 "content word" in the '101 patent?
`8 A. I'd have to do a search to find all of the
`9 instances of it, a text search. I don't have memorized
`10 where it is referred to.
`11 Q. If you could just take a look at the '101
`12 patent just quickly, and see if you can point me to
`13 anywhere where the patent says something like a certain
`14 word is a content word, as in any example of a content
`15 word?
`16 A. Okay. So let me -- in order to address your
`17 question, I wish to offer a clarification, which is
`18 that a synonym for "content word" in search space is
`19 also "keyword."
`20 Q. So let me just make sure that -- whenever you
`21 use the word "keyword" in your declaration, you are
`22 using it in the exact same way as "content word"?
`23 A. I don't remember whether I've used the word
`24 "keyword" in my declaration or not. If I did, that
`25 would be correct. In the search engine space or
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`1 Q. Thanks.
`2 And both of these patents describe what you
`3 have just discussed as cross-language search. Correct?
`4 A. Different aspects of it, yes.
`5 Q. Do you have an understanding of what products
`6 have been accused in this case?
`7 A. I have not done an infringement analysis.
`8 Q. Right. But do you know, generally, at a high
`9 level, what products Improved Search is accusing AOL of
`10 infringing?
`11 A. I've seen the complaint, if that's what
`12 you're asking, but I have not looked at it recently,
`13 so I have not yet worked on that aspect of the case.
`14 Q. Okay. Let's turn back to your declaration,
`15 which is Exhibit Number 1. We're going to be probably
`16 looking at that the most and then also looking at the
`17 patents.
`18 A. Okay.
`19 Q. If you could, turn to page 6 of your
`20 declaration, paragraph 16.
`21 A. "Content word"?
`22 Q. Yes, the section labeled, "content word."
`23 And you offer an opinion in support of
`24 Improved Search's construction of "content word"?
`25 A. That is correct.
`
`1 domain, those two terms are used interchangeably.
`2 Q. Okay. Well, can you point me to an example
`3 in the '101 patent where the patent explains what a
`4 keyword is or a content word?
`5 A. Okay. Let me look and see whether it does or
`6 not. In figure 2, as a step, step 120, it says,
`7 "keyword identification."
`8 Q. Right. I understand the patent refers to
`9 content words and keywords. I'm just asking whether
`10 the patent gives any examples of what it says would be
`11 a keyword or a content word.
`12 A. It gives multiple examples. First one that I
`13 run into is on column 2, line 32, I believe -- no,
`14 line 33, where it uses "shrimp caviar" as an example of
`15 content words.
`16 Q. You agree the patent does not say that shrimp
`17 caviar is a content word. Correct? It doesn't use
`18 that term. You're assuming that. Correct?
`19 A. When you search in particular words, those
`20 are the words that search engines consider to be
`21 content words or keywords.
`22 Q. So you --
`23 A. So the patent implicitly uses that as an
`24 example of content words. It does not say, insofar as
`25 I can see, this is an example of a content word, here.
`4 (Pages 10 - 13)
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`1 It may say so elsewhere.
`2 I'll take a further look, if you wish.
`3 Q. Let me just go back to something you just
`4 said. You said content words are the words that the
`5 search engine considers?
`6 A. That's correct.
`7 Q. So is that another definition of content
`8 word?
`9 A. If I could elaborate a little bit --
`10 Q. Sure.
`11 A. -- it's the search -- the words -- sorry. I
`12 have to take a step back and give you a very brief
`13 explanation of how the search engines typically work.
`14 They crawl, which means they collect
`15 information from a source, like the Web or part of the
`16 Web. Then they index. Index means selecting all of
`17 the content words or keywords. For example, things
`18 like determiners, "the" and "a," and prepositions, like
`19 "off" and "on," are not content words. It generates an
`20 index based on all of the content words which are the
`21 majority of the words in the language. And then, by
`22 "considers," that it means, when a query comes in, if
`23 that query -- if those words in the query are in the
`24 index, the content words -- they are considered or used
`25 to perform the search.
`
`1 the mark-ups, but those are considered -- those are
`2 neither content words nor stop words because they
`3 aren't words in the language. They are mark-up terms
`4 in the document.
`5 Q. We've discussed a few things about content
`6 words that are not exactly the terms that are used to
`7 define it in your declaration. In your declaration,
`8 you say, "A 'content word' is any word that carries
`9 semantic content."
`10 What do you mean by "semantic content"?
`11 A. That is the definition that is commonly given
`12 in linguistics or computational linguistics, which
`13 coincides with words that are indexed in a search
`14 engine.
`15 Q. But to a layperson, what does "semantic
`16 content" mean?
`17 A. It typically means referring to some object,
`18 concrete or abstract, or person or a quality of that
`19 object or an action taken upon it or a quantity. In
`20 other words, you can try to define "semantic content"
`21 by enumeration of the types of semantics, which is what
`22 I just started doing. It's not an exhaustive list. I
`23 could go a little bit further, but I may not be able to
`24 remember all of the categories. In fact, I'm sure I'll
`25 probably forget some.
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`1 Q. So you said "the" and "a" are not content
`2 words?
`3 A. That's correct.
`4 Q. Is that always the case?
`5 A. In all the search engines I've ever worked
`6 on, yes. They are considered -- there is a term for
`7 them. They're called stop words. So there are stop
`8 words and content words. Content words are indexed and
`9 therefore considered in the search. Stop words are
`10 not. Stop words means they stop processing. They
`11 don't do any further processing. It doesn't mean
`12 that -- another possible definition of "stop."
`13 Q. So would another way to define "content
`14 word," in your opinion, be any word that is not a stop
`15 word?
`16 A. I'm trying to think whether there are any
`17 exceptions to that statement.
`18 That's essentially correct. You can have
`19 things which are not words, like mark-up terms, in
`20 HTML, mark-up terms, which are neither stop words nor
`21 content words. They're not words. And the modern
`22 search engines sometimes pay heed to those. For
`23 example, if it's on a title, if it's a mark-up that
`24 says, "begin title," "end title," it will give greater
`25 words to the contents in the title. So it considers
`
`1 There are words that are modifiers that also
`2 carry semantic content.
`3 Q. What words don't carry semantic content? How
`4 do you describe the category of words that don't carry
`5 semantic content?
`6 A. They are usually linking words, like
`7 prepositions, or they are things like an apostrophe S,
`8 or they are things like determiner that says, you know,
`9 "a nice table" versus "nice table." You will get the
`10 same result in a search engine whether you apply all
`11 three of those words or just the latter two.
`12 Q. In your experience, is that universally true,
`13 that "a nice table" would return the exact same results
`14 as "nice table"?
`15 A. I can't -- it's generally true. It is true
`16 in all of the textbooks that I have seen and articles
`17 and in all of the search engines that I have worked on.
`18 I, obviously, am not privy to the inner workings of
`19 every search engine out there, so I can't make the
`20 universal statement.
`21 Q. Where -- is the word "semantic" or term
`22 "semantic content" used anywhere in the patents?
`23 A. That's what I don't know. Let me see
`24 whether, when they're talking about the dialectical
`25 standardization they mention it.
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`1 I found an example of "content word" you had
`2 asked before, on column 3, around line 48 or 49, "...to
`3 extract contents word from the input query." So they
`4 do use "content word" as well as "keyword."
`5 Q. Right.
`6 A. That wasn't your current question. I was
`7 addressing an incompletely answered earlier question.
`8 Q. Yes. Well, just my earlier question was not
`9 a dispute about whether the patent uses the term
`10 "content word" or "keyword" but whether it gave an
`11 example of words that are content words or keywords.
`12 And this cite that you just pointed to still doesn't
`13 give an example.
`14 A. This doesn't give an example, no. They give
`15 examples elsewhere. I don't know that they explicitly
`16 call them "content words," where they talk about truck
`17 and lorry, for example. Those are content words.
`18 Q. We'll get back to truck and lorry.
`19 But staying on the term "semantic content,"
`20 can you see it anywhere in the patent?
`21 A. I cannot tell you for sure that it's not, but
`22 I believe they don't use that bigram -- bigram means
`23 two words together -- explicitly in the patent.
`24 Q. So you would agree that the patent doesn't
`25 describe how to distinguish a word with semantic
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`Page 19
`1 content from a word that doesn't have semantic content?
`2 A. No. I believe that the patent refers to the
`3 keywords, which, in the art, are the words that carry
`4 the semantic content.
`5 Q. How does one distinguish between what's a
`6 content word and what's not a content word?
`7 A. Any person of ordinary skill in the art knows
`8 what I just said earlier. It's very basic.
`9 Q. So could you -- it would take a long time,
`10 but could you write a list of all of the words that are
`11 not content words?
`12 A. In fact, yes.
`13 Q. And about how large would that list be?
`14 A. It differs per language.
`15 Q. Okay. In English.
`16 A. In English, there's a standard set of stop
`17 words. And there's more than one because not everybody
`18 agrees exactly on which ones are stop words, but they
`19 largely agree. And it's less than 200.
`20 Q. So would you agree that a content word is a
`21 word that -- so a word, as opposed to not words, which
`22 we've discussed before -- a word that is not a stop
`23 word?
`24 A. That is the operational definition in the
`25 field, yes.
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`1 Q. Okay. And in your opinion, is that
`2 consistent with you saying that a content word is any
`3 word that carries semantic content? That means the
`4 same thing?
`5 A. That is supposed to mean the same thing, and
`6 everybody assumes that that is true.
`7 Occasionally one of these lists of stop words
`8 may not be totally complete, so it may be missing one
`9 or two, and these words appear in the content words and
`10 say, oh, we should not have indexed that word because
`11 it doesn't convey any meaning. So module the fact that
`12 these stop word lists are sometimes imperfect, I would
`13 agree with you.
`14 Q. Do stop words lists, in the art, ever contain
`15 words that you would say do have semantic content but
`16 they're included on the list because perhaps they're
`17 used so often that they're not helpful?
`18 Let me give you an example. Maybe this will
`19 help. Does the word "I" carry semantic content?
`20 A. The word "I" carries semantic content in the
`21 sense that it's a first-person pronoun.
`22 Q. And in your experience, is the word "I"
`23 included on stop word lists?
`24 A. The pronouns are a good example of the ones
`25 that there is divergence. Some stop word lists will
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`Page 21
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`1 contain the pronouns. Others will not.
`2 Q. So it's not really -- it's not a one-to-one
`3 correspondence, even in theory, between the set of
`4 words that are not stop words and the set of words that
`5 carry semantic content?
`6 A. The words that -- so typically, the linguists
`7 do not include the pronouns into the content words.
`8 And the majority of the search engine stop word lists
`9 contain the pronouns so they're also not considered,
`10 but it's not universal.
`11 Q. In the context of the patents, when you read
`12 "content word," are you thinking about it in terms of
`13 the words that are used to search by a search engine,
`14 so therefore, the words that are not stop words?
`15 A. Yes.
`16 Q. Okay. You also give -- well, you cite the
`17 Merriam-Webster Dictionary in paragraph 16 of your
`18 declaration.
`19 Do you see that?
`20 A. No, not yet.
`21 Q. The last line on page 6 into the top of
`22 page 7.
`23 A. Yes, I see that.
`24 Q. Is that a current dictionary?
`25 A. It is the dictionary that's available on the
`6 (Pages 18 - 21)
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`1 Web, so I would assume it's relatively current.
`2 Q. Did you look up "content word" in 2016 for
`3 the purpose of this declaration?
`4 A. I did all my work in 2016. Yes.
`5 Q. And why is what a dictionary says in 2016
`6 relevant to the meaning of a term in a patent with a
`7 priority date of 2000?
`8 A. Let me make a comment on the priority date.
`9 The vast majority of the entries in the dictionary is
`10 stable over time.
`11 Q. Did you check to see whether this entry was
`12 stable?
`13 A. This entry of "content word" or "keyword" or
`14 "indexed word" has been stable in the field since maybe
`15 the late '80s or early '90s.
`16 Q. You're really going off your experience in
`17 the field, not this dictionary definition. Correct?
`18 A. The two are the same.
`19 Q. Later on, in paragraph 16 -- I think it's the
`20 second-to-last -- well, you give an example about
`21 searching for "'EOS-1D X under $4000.'" Correct?
`22 A. Yes.
`23 Q. And you say that, "...if typed into Google,
`24 the above query retrieves appropriate pages..."
`25 Is that correct?
`
`Page 24
`1 search engine indexes words that are not stop words?
`2 A. That's correct. I believe I said that --
`3 Q. Right. Right.
`4 A. -- before. I agree with you.
`5 Q. I'm just trying to figure out whether things
`6 are meaning the same thing or whether they're slightly
`7 different and what the give is.
`8 So because the construction proposed is not
`9 about stop words and it's not about indexing; it's
`10 about semantic content, which I personally find a
`11 confusing term, which is -- so I'm trying to --
`12 A. Okay.
`13 Q. So everything -- in your opinion or
`14 experience, everything with semantic content -- every
`15 word with semantic content gets indexed by a search
`16 engine?
`17 A. Everything that has been seen with semantic
`18 content is indexed by a search engine, yes. So you
`19 could have some word that is not contained anywhere in
`20 any of the documents, and so that word hasn't been
`21 seen. So with that proviso, I agree with you.
`22 Q. Move off of "content word."
`23 And in a number of the constructions and in
`24 the patents the terms "languages" and "dialectal
`25 variations" are used. Correct?
`
`Page 23
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`Page 25
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`1 A. That is correct.
`2 Q. And you say, "...and hence contains content
`3 words."
`4 Right?
`5 A. Yes. If it contains -- if it does not
`6 contain content words, it would not be able to do a
`7 search because it would not be indexed.
`8 Q. So do you view -- so the ability to retrieve
`9 appropriate pages then defines what a content word is
`10 or how -- what's the relationship there?
`11 A. No. The retrieval process occurs by matching
`12 words in the query to words in the index of the search
`13 engine. If those words are not indexed, they're not
`14 content words, you do not retrieve the Web page or the
`15 document that contains those words.
`16 So this is evidence -- I mean, I think it's
`17 irrefutable evidence that these terms have been indexed
`18 by Google in order to be able to retrieve the Web pages
`19 that contain the particular model number of a camera
`20 and its price.
`21 Q. Okay. So another way, in your mind, to
`22 define "content word" is a word that the search engine
`23 indexes?
`24 A. Yes.
`25 Q. So those are all the same things. So the
`
`1 A. Yes.
`2 Q. And you use the words "language" and
`3 "dialect" in your proposed construction?
`4 A. Yes.
`5 Q. When you use the word "language," what do you
`6 mean?
`7 A. I mean a language as is recognized by
`8 linguists worldwide. There's a list of about 6,900
`9 languages that are recognized as such across the word,
`10 and a larger, possibly incomplete, list of the
`11 dialects.
`12 Q. So where is that -- where is that list?
`13 A. The list is -- I can find it for you pretty
`14 quickly. Let me see if I remember the name. It's in
`15 more than one place.
`16 There's a Website called the Ethnologue.
`17 Q. Yep.
`18 A. And that contains a -- it's probably the most
`19 respected one that contains this list, but it's not the
`20 only one.
`21 Q. So when you use the word "language," you're
`22 talking about a language as defined on, say,
`23 Ethnologue, what Ethnologue would consider a language?
`24 A. Yes. That's not --
`25 Q. Not just Ethnologue, but that's a
`7 (Pages 22 - 25)
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`Case 1:15-cv-00262-SLR-SRF Document 62-1 Filed 12/06/16 Page 9 of 154 PageID #: 1057
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`Page 26
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`1 representation of what the field of linguistics
`2 considers to be a language?
`3 A. You said what I was about to say, yes.
`4 Q. So then, when you use the word "dialect,"
`5 what do you mean?
`6 A. When I use the word "dialect," I mean seeing
`7 things that are variants of the language, sometimes
`8 distant variants, sometimes closer variants of that
`9 language. Some dialects are mutually understandable.
`10 Others, less so.
`11 Q. And how does one determine where on the scope
`12 of variation, you know, there's a line between a
`13 language and a dialect?
`14 A. That's an excellent question, and the fact
`15 that I'm starting that way means that it's been debated
`16 over a long time. The linguists have come to a
`17 consensus, and that's why they've listed the ones that
`18 are found in Ethnologue and as mirrored in other places
`19 as well as the ones that are actually considered
`20 languages. So there's agreement by inclusion or
`21 exclusion from that particular list.
`22 Q. So you would agree that a language and a
`23 dialect -- "language" and "dialect" mean different
`24 things?
`25 A. They partially mean different things. The
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`Page 27
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`1 dialects have not been recognized as different
`2 languages, but they're still, you know, different from
`3 each other. So they are treated in some cases as
`4 different, in some other cases as the same -- in the
`5 same way. So I would just simply go by the consensus
`6 of the communities that say that these are considered
`7 separate languages and other variants are dialects.
`8 Q. Okay. But you would agree that, if you have
`9 two -- bear with me. This may be slightly complicated.
`10 If you don't understand, please let me know.
`11 If you have two different ways of speaking or
`12 writing, a linguist will have a definition in his mind
`13 of what's a language versus what's a dialect. Right?
`14 If you have those two different ways of speaking, that
`15 linguist will, based on his definition, either
`16 categorize that as two different languages or two
`17 different dialects, but is not going to categorize it
`18 as both two different languages and two different
`19 dialects at the same time?
`20 A. That's correct.
`21 Q. Okay. So the patents -- both