4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` IBG LLC, INTERACTIVE BROKERS LLC,
` TRADESTATION GROUP, INC. and
` TRADESTATION TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
`
` Petitioners
`
` v.
`
` TRADING TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` CBM2016-00090 (Patent No. 7,725,382)
` CBM2016-00054 (Patent No. 7,693,768)
`
` Deposition of HAROLD ABILOCK, taken at
` McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff LLP,
` before Donna M. Kazaitis, IL-CSR, RPR, CLR,
` and CRR, commencing at the hour of 9:05 a.m.
` on Tuesday, April 11, 2017.
`
`____________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
`
`IBG 1069
`IBG v. TT
`CBM2016-00054
`
`
`
`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 1
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` IBG LLC, INTERACTIVE BROKERS LLC,
` TRADESTATION GROUP, INC. and
` TRADESTATION TECHNOLOGIES, INC.
`
` Petitioners
`
` v.
`
` TRADING TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL, INC.
`
` Patent Owner
`
` CBM2016-00090 (Patent No. 7,725,382)
` CBM2016-00054 (Patent No. 7,693,768)
`
` Deposition of HAROLD ABILOCK, taken at
` McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff LLP,
` before Donna M. Kazaitis, IL-CSR, RPR, CLR,
` and CRR, commencing at the hour of 9:05 a.m.
` on Tuesday, April 11, 2017.
`
`____________________________________________________
` DIGITAL EVIDENCE GROUP
` 1730 M Street, NW, Suite 812
` Washington, D.C. 20036
` (202) 232-0646
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
`
`IBG 1069
`IBG v. TT
`CBM2016-00054
`
`
`
`4/11/2017
`
`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 2
`
`APPEARANCES:
`ON BEHALF OF THE PETITIONER:
` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN FOX
` BY: ROBERT SOKOHL, ESQ.
` RICHARD M. BEMBEN, ESQ.
` 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20005
` 202.371.2600
` rsokohl@skgf.com
` rbemben@skgf.com
`
`ON BEHALF OF THE PATENT OWNER:
` MCDONNELL BOEHNEN HULBERT & BERGHOFF LLP
` BY: LEIF R. SIGMOND, JR., ESQ.
` COLE B. RICHTER, ESQ.
` 300 South Wacker Drive
` Chicago, Illinois 60606-6709
` 312.913.3311
` sigmond@mbhb.com
` richter@mbhb.com
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`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 3
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` INDEX
` PAGE
`HAROLD ABILOCK
` Examination by Mr. Bemben 4, 34
` Examination by Mr. Sigmond 29
`
` EXHIBITS
`TRADING TECH PAGE
`Exhibit 2178 Declaration of Harold Abilock 11
` (CBM2016-00090)
`Exhibit 2178 Declaration of Harold Abilock 13
` (CBM2016-00054)
`IBG PAGE
`Exhibit 1017 TSE Trading Terminal 20
` Operation Guide, CBM2016-00054
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`Harold Abilock
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`(Witness sworn.)
` HAROLD ABILOCK,
`having been first duly sworn, was examined and
`testified as follows:
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Good morning. Please state your full
`name and address.
` A. Harold Abilock. I live at 2087 Ferry
`Road, Charlotte, Vermont, 05445.
` Q. Thank you. My name is Richard Bemben.
`I'm an attorney at Sterne, Kessler, Goldstein &
`Fox. I represent petitioners today. With me is
`Robert Sokohl also from Sterne, Kessler, Goldstein
`& Fox.
` MR. BEMBEN: Counsel, would you
`introduce yourselves?
` MR. SIGMOND: Leif Sigmond from
`McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff, and I have
`with me Cole Richter.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Mr. Abilock, you've been deposed
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 5
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`before; correct?
` A. I have.
` Q. How many times?
` A. Twice.
` Q. Both of those times, has that been in
`relation to covered business method reviews?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You understand today that Trading
`Technologies, Incorporated is the patent owner?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And both of those times you were
`deposed, they were in relation to covered business
`method reviews of Trading Technologies' patents;
`is that correct?
` A. To my understanding, that is correct.
` Q. Have you ever testified at trial?
` A. No -- no.
` Q. So you're familiar with the rules for
`depositions. I'll ask the questions today, and
`you'll answer them. Please provide verbal
`responses so that Donna can take them down. For
`the same reason, let's not speak over each other.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 6
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`Is that okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. We've done a good job in the past with
`that.
` If you don't understand a question
`I ask, please ask me to clarify it. Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. But if you answer a question that I
`ask, I will have assumed that you understood it.
`Is that okay?
` A. That's fine.
` Q. During the deposition, we can take
`breaks. If you need to take a break, that's fine.
`Just let me know. The only thing that I ask is
`that if there's a pending question, that you
`answer it before we take a break. Okay?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Do you understand that you're under
`oath today?
` A. I do.
` Q. Is there any reason that you cannot
`give truthful and complete testimony?
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 7
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` A. None.
` Q. Mr. Abilock, you're not a lawyer; are
`you?
` A. No, I'm not.
` Q. And you understand that today you're
`testifying in two covered business method review
`proceedings; correct?
` A. I do.
` Q. And you're testifying on behalf of the
`patent owner; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. If I refer to Trading Technologies,
`Incorporated as "TT," you'll understand what I'm
`referring to?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Are you testifying today as an expert?
` A. Yes.
` Q. What do you consider yourself to
`be -- strike that.
` What subject matter are you
`testifying as an expert today in?
` A. Japanese-English translation.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
`
`
`
`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 8
` Q. Are you an expert in trading financial
`instruments?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you an expert in graphical user
`interfaces for trading financial instruments?
` A. Well, it depends on how you define
`"expert."
` Q. Do you consider yourself an expert in
`graphical user interfaces for trading financial
`instruments?
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form of
`the question.
` THE WITNESS: I don't know.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Have you ever designed a graphical
`user interface for trading financial instruments?
` A. No.
` Q. Are you represented by counsel today?
` MR. SIGMOND: We represent him for
`purposes of this deposition.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
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`202-232-0646
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. What did you do to prepare for the
`deposition?
` A. I reviewed documents, and I had
`meetings with Leif and Cole.
` Q. Did you meet with anyone besides Leif
`and Cole?
` A. No.
` Q. How long did you meet with Leif and
`Cole for?
` A. Yesterday, most of the day.
` Q. When you say "most of the day," what
`do you mean? How many hours?
` A. Oh, you know, morning and like a
`little bit more than half the afternoon.
` Q. And you mentioned that you reviewed
`documents. What documents did you review?
` A. I reviewed my declaration. That was
`the principal thing that I reviewed. But I also
`reviewed just, you know, re-read Chapter 7 of what
`is known as the TSE document, very lightly, you
`know, just reviewing the portions that my
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`declaration referred to. And also both the
`English and the Japanese parts of that document.
` I reviewed the opposition document
`that I translated, the TSE, Tokyo Stock Exchange
`opposition document from 2005, which I translated,
`and my declaration certifying that translation.
` I also reviewed the handling
`procedures document that I translated and my
`declaration certifying the accuracy of that
`translation. I also reviewed the transcript for
`the same declaration for which I was deposed in
`October of 2016.
` That's the basics, yes.
` Q. Was there anything else that you
`reviewed?
` A. You know, just miscellany notes and
`things like that, you know.
` Q. Notes that you took?
` A. Yeah.
` Q. Other than your notes, did you review
`anything else?
` A. No.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 11
` Q. You mentioned the declaration. Did
`you mean both declarations that are at issue
`today?
` A. Well, insofar as they're identical,
`you can say I reviewed both declarations.
` Q. Let me introduce them.
` A. They're carbon copies of one another,
`with the exception of the patent numbers and the
`CBM numbers.
` Q. I was going to ask you that actually.
` So let me introduce to you what has
`been marked as Trading Tech Exhibit 2178 in CBM
`2016-00090. (Document tendered to the witness.)
` A. Thank you.
` Q. Do you recognize this document?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. What is it?
` A. It's my declaration for this case.
` Q. If we turn to Page 12, is that your
`signature, Mr. Abilock?
` A. It is.
` MR. SIGMOND: Just for the record, and
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`202-232-0646
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 12
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`I don't object to you using it this way, but I
`just want to note that I think you're showing him
`one without the appendices, if I'm not mistaken?
` MR. BEMBEN: Right. So actually that
`one didn't have appendices. It was filed that
`way.
` MR. SIGMOND: Okay.
` THE WITNESS: One did and one didn't.
` MR. SIGMOND: Okay.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. So I'm going to refer to Exhibit 2178
`in CBM 2016-00090 as the '382 declaration. Is
`that okay with you?
` A. Yes.
` Q. You'll know what I'm referring to?
` A. Yeah, you're referring to the patent
`number.
` Q. Okay. And if you look at the front
`page of your '382 declaration, it refers to Patent
`Number 7,725,382.
` Do you see that?
` A. I do.
`
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 13
` Q. Have you ever reviewed Patent Number
`7,725,382?
` A. No.
` Q. Let me introduce your other
`declaration as well.
` Mr. Abilock, I am now handing you
`what has been marked as Trading Tech Exhibit 2178
`in CBM 2016-00054. (Document tendered to the
`witness.)
` Have you seen this document before?
` A. I have.
` Q. What is it?
` A. It's my declaration for the 0054 case.
` Q. If we turn to Page 12, is that your
`signature, Mr. Abilock?
` A. It is.
` Q. If I refer to Exhibit 2178 of
`CBM2016-00054 as the '768 declaration, will you
`know what I'm referring to?
` A. 2178 you said?
` Q. Yes. So the exhibit number's in the
`bottom right-hand corner.
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 14
` A. Oh, okay. I didn't see that number
`down there. Okay. Can you repeat that again?
` Q. Sure. If I refer to Exhibit 2178 in
`CBM 2016-00054 as the '768 declaration, will you
`know what I'm referring to?
` A. Yes, I will.
` Q. And I believe you testified earlier
`that the '768 declaration is the same as but for
`exhibit numbers and case number as the '382
`declaration; is that correct?
` A. Yes, case numbers, exhibit numbers,
`and patent numbers.
` Q. Okay. So today since that's the case
`I'll just focus on the '768 declaration. Is that
`okay?
` A. Works for me.
` Q. And that's the one that has the
`appendix.
` A. Yeah.
` Q. Let's just put the '382 aside then.
` Okay. Mr. Abilock, I'm going to
`represent to you that there is just a minor error
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`202-232-0646
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 15
`in the patent number on the front page of the '768
`declaration. The patent at issue is 7,693,768.
`Okay?
` A. Okay.
` Q. Have you ever reviewed Patent Number
`7,693,768?
` A. No, I haven't.
` Q. Mr. Abilock, when was the last time
`you reviewed the '768 declaration?
` A. The last time?
` Q. Yes.
` A. Yesterday.
` Q. Are there any corrections to the '768
`declaration that you'd like to make at this time?
`Other than minor typographical errors or anything
`like that.
` A. Oh, okay. I was going to say unless a
`typographical error, no.
` Q. So as you sit here today, it's
`complete and accurate but for if there's
`typographical errors?
` A. Correct.
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 16
` Q. Did you write the '768 declaration?
` A. Well, I wrote the -- this is a copy of
`a declaration that I wrote. So on that basis,
`yes, I wrote this declaration.
` Q. How long did you spend preparing the
`original declaration?
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: Oh, gosh, I can't recall
`exactly. I believe that in my October deposition
`I stated how many hours approximately. But I've
`worked on quite a few documents since then, and I
`don't have my invoice in front of me or anything
`like that. So I don't know, I would say 15, 20,
`25 hours tops.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. So you mentioned that this declaration
`is the same as the declaration that was at issue
`when you were deposed in October; is that correct?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. Has your analysis of what you put in
`the '768 declaration changed since October?
` A. No.
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`202-232-0646
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`Harold Abilock
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` Q. It's the same?
` A. It is.
` Q. Let's turn to Paragraph 7 -- actually,
`I'm sorry. Let's turn to -- let's not turn
`anywhere. Let me just ask you a quick question.
` Are you familiar with the term
`"person of ordinary skill in the art at the time
`of the invention"?
` A. I am.
` Q. If I use the acronym "POSITA," will
`you know what I'm referring to?
` A. Yes, I will.
` Q. Do you have an opinion as to the
`definition of a POSITA for the '768 Patent?
` MR. SIGMOND: I object to the form of
`the question.
` THE WITNESS: What do you mean by have
`an opinion?
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Do you know what the definition of a
`POSITA for the '768 Patent is?
` A. I have an understanding of the term
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 18
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`"POSITA."
` Q. Right. But have you reviewed the '768
`Patent?
` A. Certainly not.
` Q. So you don't have an opinion as to
`what a person of ordinary skill in the art at the
`time of the '768 Patent was?
` A. Oh, in relation to the '768?
`Impossible.
` Q. And is your answer the same for the
`'382 Patent?
` A. Certainly.
` Q. Please turn to Page 7 of the
`declaration. On Page 7 you have a table that has
`two columns; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. On the left-hand side is source
`Japanese text from Exhibit 1016, which is the TSE
`Japanese language document; correct?
` A. Correct.
` Q. And on the right-hand side there is an
`English translation of that source Japanese text;
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 19
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`is that correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Is the translation on the right-hand
`side of the table accurate?
` A. To the best of my knowledge.
` Q. If we look at the bullet on the top of
`Page 7, do you see that?
` A. If I look at the top of what?
` Q. The bullet on the top, the very top of
`Page 7 referring to Appendix A.
` A. Uh-huh.
` Q. Appendix A is your 2007 translation of
`certain pages of the TSE document; is that
`correct?
` A. That is correct.
` Q. Is Appendix A an accurate translation
`of those pages?
` A. To the best of my belief.
` Q. Thank you. Let's turn to Page 15 of
`your declaration, which is 7-1 of the translation.
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is Page 15 of your declaration the
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`Page 20
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`same as Page 0091 of the TSE document?
` A. I don't have the TSE document in front
`of me.
` Q. Let me introduce that.
` Mr. Abilock, I'm handing you what
`has been marked IBG 1017 in CBM2016-00054.
`(Document tendered to the witness.)
` A. Thank you.
` Q. Have you seen this document before?
` A. Yes, I have.
` Q. What is it?
` A. It's what is referred to as the TSE
`document in this case, the English translation.
` Q. Thank you. So if you turn to Page
`0091 of the TSE translation --
` A. Yes.
` Q. -- is that the same as what is shown
`on Page 15 of your declaration?
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form of
`the question.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Let me restate the question. Is Page
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 21
`0091 of the TSE translation the same as Page 15 of
`your '768 declaration?
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: It appears to be the
`same, but it's not exactly the same. You can see
`the font is different and, you know, a few other
`things, but it appears to be the same, yes.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Substantively is it the same?
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: I couldn't say
`substantively or otherwise, but it appears to be
`the same.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. So on Page 0091 of the TSE
`translation, it has five bullets. Do you see
`those five bullets?
` A. I do.
` Q. And Page 15 of your '768 declaration
`has five bullets also. Do you see those?
` A. I do.
` Q. Above the five bullets on Page 0091 of
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 22
`the TSE translation, there's a sentence that reads
`"the principal features relating to the display of
`board and quotation information are as below."
` Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. You have the same statement on Page 15
`of your '768 declaration above the five bullets
`that reads "the principal features relating to the
`display of board and quotation information are as
`below."
` Do you see that?
` A. I do.
` Q. Doesn't that statement, "the principal
`features relating to the display of board and
`quotation information are as below" indicate that
`the five bullet points that follow relate to the
`display of board and quotation information?
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form.
` THE WITNESS: It would seem that
`that's the author's intention.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. And does Page 0091 -- strike that.
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 23
` Does Page 15 of your declaration
`mention memory anywhere?
` A. Page 15 of my declaration does not
`mention memory, no.
` However, you know, memory is just
`one form of storage. It's just a way of saying
`that -- it's just a way of providing an example of
`how updating might take place other than on the
`board screen.
` So when I mention memory in my
`declaration, I mean that as a generic form of how
`information might be handled.
` Q. Thank you.
` Please turn to Page 39 of your
`declaration -- I'm sorry, Page 40 of your
`declaration.
` A. I'm there.
` Q. Does Page 40 of your declaration
`mention memory?
` A. No, it doesn't. But my previous
`comment applies, that my use of "memory" is merely
`to point out one method by which information might
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 24
`be updated without being updated on the screen.
` Q. Let's turn back to Paragraph 19 of
`your declaration.
` A. Yes.
` Q. You say "I have been asked to examine
`the source Japanese text in Bullet 3" --
` A. 19 of my declaration?
` Q. Paragraph 19. Did I say "page"? I'm
`sorry.
` MR. SIGMOND: He said "paragraph."
` THE WITNESS: I apologize. I turned
`to Page 19.
` MR. SIGMOND: Page 7.
` THE WITNESS: Yes. Okay. I'm there.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. So on Paragraph 19 you indicate that
`you were asked to examine the source Japanese
`bullet 3 of Exhibit 1016; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Who asked you to perform that
`examination?
` A. So this is the copy of the declaration
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`
`
`4/11/2017
`
`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 25
`that I wrote last fall. I believe it might have
`been Finnegan. I'm kind of like losing track over
`the course of time. Unless I had my notes, I
`couldn't say specifically.
` Q. And if we turn to Paragraph 22 of your
`declaration, there you mention the Japanese reader
`of the source Japanese text; correct?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Is it fair to say that the statements
`in your declaration consider the understanding of
`the source Japanese text from the perspective of a
`Japanese reader?
` A. That's correct.
` Q. So I know you've been asked this
`before, so just bear with me: Do you know what an
`ISO 9001 certification is?
` A. I know that it generally relates to
`the quality control, but I've never really looked
`through it.
` Q. And you mentioned that you worked for
`or you are an owner of Japan Link Translations; is
`that correct?
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
`
`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 26
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` A. That is correct.
` Q. Does Japan Link Translations have an
`ISO 9001 certification?
` A. No, it doesn't. But it has rigorous
`quality control procedures that might likely
`exceed those of ISO 9001 or any other
`certification.
` Q. Do you know what an EN 15038
`certification is?
` A. I've heard it mentioned before. I
`know that it's a European quality control
`certification. And I would make the same
`statement, that such quality control procedures
`are more corporate oriented and more around
`procedural handling and management of projects
`rather than the nuts and bolts of the actual
`translation process that a translator practices in
`the conduct of translating a Japanese text to
`English.
` Q. Does Japan Link Translations have an
`EN 15038 certification?
` A. No, it doesn't.
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
`
`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`
`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 27
` Q. Does Japan Link have any recognized
`quality standard certifications?
` A. Not a standard, no. But we have
`implemented extensive quality control procedures
`in-house that are practiced in the profession.
` Q. Thank you.
` MR. BEMBEN: Let's take a break now,
`if you don't mind. Thank you.
` MR. SIGMOND: Long or --
` MR. BEMBEN: Short break. I think
`maybe 10 minutes, if you don't mind.
` (A recess was taken.)
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Mr. Abilock, I just want to follow up
`with some of the questions that I asked you
`earlier today.
` When forming the opinions in your
`declaration, did you consider the perspective of a
`person of ordinary skill in the art at the time of
`the invention of the '768 Patent?
` MR. SIGMOND: Objection to the form.
` THE WITNESS: It would not be possible
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
`
`202-232-0646
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`
`
`4/11/2017
`
`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 28
`to because I don't know what an ordinary person of
`skill in the art is with respect to the patent you
`cited.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Is your answer the same regarding the
`'382 Patent?
` A. Correct.
` Q. I also asked you earlier if you're
`testifying as an expert, and you stated Yes, as a
`Japanese translations expert; is that correct?
` A. Yes.
` MR. SIGMOND: Object to the form and
`mischaracterizes.
` THE WITNESS: Also, I would add that I
`did consider the rendering of the text from your
`earlier question from the perspective of a
`Japanese reader and even a person of, you know,
`some technical skill.
`BY MR. BEMBEN:
` Q. Okay. Are you testifying as an expert
`in anything other than the Japanese language
`translation today?
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`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
`
`Page 29
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` A. No.
` Q. Earlier you mentioned a handling
`procedures document. Do you recall that?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. What is that document?
` A. I don't have that in front of me.
` Q. Can you just describe it generally?
` A. Well, to be honest, I didn't review it
`very carefully in preparation for this deposition.
`But I kind of recall it's around the provisioning
`of a terminal, the terminal in question I suppose.
` MR. BEMBEN: Thank you, Mr. Abilock.
`We have no further questions at this time.
` MR. SIGMOND: I have a few.
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q. Mr. Abilock, you were asked some
`questions about ISO and other certifications, and
`you mentioned that you had other quality control
`procedures at Japan Link; correct?
` A. Yes, I do.
` Q. Can you describe those quality control
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`Page 30
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`procedures for us, just generally?
` A. Uh-huh. Well, I have over the course
`of 10 or 15 years, maybe getting up on as many as
`20 years at this point, been using my professional
`skill as a software developer to develop, mostly
`using Visual Basic, sophisticated algorithms for
`analyzing the source Japanese text in very unique
`ways in the translation industry that provides a
`very high level of quality control in the
`translation process that extends considerably
`beyond that of the typical translator.
` For example, there is a software
`module that extracts all the terms in the source
`Japanese text and ensures that they are all
`translated consistently throughout the document.
` It's often the case that
`translators, especially when translating long
`documents, translate a given term in different
`ways throughout the text. In such cases it can
`lead the reader to think that a particular element
`cited in a specification is actually two elements
`because they're translated two different ways in
`
`www.DigitalEvidenceGroup.com
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`Digital Evidence Group C'rt 2017
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`202-232-0646
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`4/11/2017
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
`
`Harold Abilock
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`Page 31
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`the text.
` So the software that I have written
`ensures through a control process that a given
`term is translated consistently throughout the
`documentation, throughout the document.
` Furthermore, the document analyzes
`the drawings and provides a matrix correspondence
`between the drawings and the text to ensure that
`every element cited in the specification appears
`somewhere in the drawings and every label in the
`drawing is cited somewhere in the text.
` In addition, in the claims there is
`a dependency analysis to ensure that there is an
`antecedent basis for dependent claims, for each
`element in a dependent claim, and things like
`this. There are a variety of processes.
` These are just a few examples of
`many, many examples, of many, many quality control
`processes that I have developed just in software
`alone.
` In addition, there are human
`control processes. Such as, for example, every
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`IBG LLC, et al. v. TTI, Inc.
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`Harold Abilock
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`Page 32
`text is reviewed three times. First by a primary
`editor, secondly by a secondary editor, and
`thirdly by me again. And each one of those steps
`itself has extensive quality control checks.
` Finally, there is a final control
`quality checklist that may take as many as two
`hours to perform. That ensures, again, additional
`quality control.
` So, overall, whereas the average
`translator might spend as much as 10 percent, you
`know, I'm just throwing a number out there, of
`their work effort in a translation to quality
`control, at Japan Link we devote on average
`40 percent of our time to quality control.
` Q. Could you look at the declarations?
`I'm going to ask you to look at both the '382 and
`the '768 at the same tim
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