Michael Burns May 29, 2007
`
`1
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` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
` EASTERN DIVISION
`
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 04 CV 5312
` )
`eSpeed, Inc., eSpeed International )
`Ltd., Ecco LLC and EccoWare Ltd., )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 1079
` )
`Refco Group, Ltd., LLC, et al., )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Rosenthal Collins Group, LLC, )
` Plaintiff- )
` Counterclaim Defendant, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 4088
` )
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Defendant- )
` Counterclaimant. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 4120
` )
`GL Consultants, Inc., )
`and GL Trade SA, )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
`
`Page 1 of 11
`
`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
`
`
`
`1
`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` FOR THE NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
` EASTERN DIVISION
`
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 04 CV 5312
` )
`eSpeed, Inc., eSpeed International )
`Ltd., Ecco LLC and EccoWare Ltd., )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 1079
` )
`Refco Group, Ltd., LLC, et al., )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Rosenthal Collins Group, LLC, )
` Plaintiff- )
` Counterclaim Defendant, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 4088
` )
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Defendant- )
` Counterclaimant. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 4120
` )
`GL Consultants, Inc., )
`and GL Trade SA, )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
`
`Page 1 of 11
`
`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`
`
`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
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`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 4137
` )
`Peregrine Financial Group, Inc., )
`and TradeMaven, LLC, )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 4811
` )
`CQGT, LLC and CQG, Inc., )
` Defendants. )
`- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -)
`Trading Technologies )
`International, Inc., )
` Plaintiff, )
` )
` vs. ) No. 05 CV 5164
` )
`FuturePath Trading, LLC, )
` Defendant. )
`
` Videotaped deposition of MICHAEL BURNS, taken
`before NADINE J. WATTS, CSR, RPR, and Notary Public,
`pursuant to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure for the
`United States District Courts pertaining to the taking
`of depositions, at Suite 3500, 35 West Wacker Drive, in
`the City of Chicago, Cook County, Illinois, at 11:36
`o'clock a.m. on the 29th day of May, A.D., 2007.
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
`
`Page 2 of 11
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
`
`3
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` There were present at the taking of this
`deposition the following counsel:
`
` McDONNELL, BOEHNEN, HULBERT & BERGHOFF, LLP by
` MR. MATTHEW J. SAMPSON
` 300 South Wacker Drive
` Chicago, Illinois 60606
` (312) 913-2119
` on behalf of the Plaintiff;
`
` WINSTON & STRAWN, LLP BY
` MR. RAYMOND C. PERKINS
` 35 West Wacker Drive
` Chicago, Illinois 60601
` (312) 558-6214
` on behalf of the Defendants;
`
` FAEGRE & BENSON, LLP by
` MS. NINA Y. WANG
` 3200 Wells Fargo Center
` 1700 Lincoln Street
` Denver, Colorado 80203
` (303) 607-3802
` and
` FAEGRE & BENSON, LLP by
` MR. NEAL COHEN
` 1900 Fifteenth Street
` Boulder, Colorado 80302
` (303) 447-7700
` on behalf of CQGT, LLC and CQG, Inc.;
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
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`Page 3 of 11
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
`
`4
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` SALANS by
` MS. LORA A. MOFFATT
` Rockefeller Center
` 620 Fifth Avenue
` New York, New York 10020
` (212) 632-8436
` on behalf of GL Trade Americas, Inc. and
` FuturePath Trading, LLC.
`
`ALSO PRESENT: Mr. Steve F. Borsand, Trading
` Technologies International, Inc.
` Mr. Bruce Witty, videographer
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF MICHAEL BURNS
` TAKEN MAY 29, 2007
`
`5
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`EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`Mr. Raymond C. Perkins 7, 296
`Mr. Matthew J. Sampson 286
` EXHIBITS
` PAGE
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 640 256
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 641 267
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 642 277
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 643 279
` PREVIOUSLY MARKED EXHIBITS
` PAGE
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 390 22
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 407 88
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 458 220
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 592 193
`Defendant's Exhibit No. 626 215
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`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
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`Page 5 of 11
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
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` MR. SAMPSON: Okay. Or the immediate time before
`the lawsuit was filed. Okay?
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
` MR. SAMPSON: Do you understand?
` MR. PERKINS: Can he answer the question?
` THE WITNESS: I can't remember conversations whether
`or not -- The timeframe gets kind of gray when I -- so I
`think I have to go with counsel's instruction.
` MR. PERKINS: Q When you say the timeframe gets
`kind of gray, what do you mean?
` A As far as whether I should answer or not.
` Q All right. What's your position at Trading
`Technologies?
` A Vice president of R & D, research and
`development.
` Q How long have you been in that position?
` A Off -- I don't know. I can't give you exact
`dates.
` Q Approximately?
` A Four years, maybe five.
` Q How long have you been at Trading Technologies?
` A I started in July 2000.
` Q Are you currently an officer of Trading
`Technologies?
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
`
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
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` A I'm vice president of -- I'm not -- I don't
`know. Where do you qualify that? I don't know.
` Q Do you have an understanding of whether or not
`you're an officer of the company?
` A I'm on the senior -- I'm on the executive
`committee or whatever.
` Q Are you part of the Trading Technology
`management?
` MR. SAMPSON: Objection to form, vague and
`ambiguous.
` THE WITNESS: Can you be more specific, or no?
` MR. PERKINS: Q Are you part of Trading Technology
`management?
` MR. SAMPSON: Same objection. You can answer if you
`understand what he's asking.
` THE WITNESS: I don't -- Yes, I don't understand.
` MR. PERKINS: Q Fair enough. You mentioned the
`executive committee. What is the executive committee at
`Trading Technologies?
` A They call it -- it's an e-mail really to
`senior -- I forget the exact name of it. Senior
`executive whatever committee.
` Q All right. What is --
` A I don't --
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
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`enter orders?
` MR. PERKINS: Object to the form.
` MS. MOFFATT: Join.
` THE WITNESS: I didn't see a vertical presentation
`on GL.
` MR. SAMPSON: Q You didn't even see vertical?
` A No.
` Q Okay. When was the first time that you did see
`vertical on GL?
` A I mean, the first time I saw vertical on GL?
`Again, obviously outside of this stuff, right?
` Q Right.
` A I mean, I don't know any time specific, but I'm
`sure -- You know, again, when I talk about trade
`shows -- I don't know. I don't know when the first time
`is I would have seen it. People certainly said that
`they have a vertical, they have a vertical.
` Q Did you ever see a GL window with a vertical
`price scale prior to the time that you joined TT?
` A No.
` Q You're absolutely sure about that?
` A Absolutely sure, I did not see a vertical on
`their screen.
` Q And when you were at TransMarket Group, you
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
`(800) 868-0061 (312) 263-3524
`
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`Michael Burns May 29, 2007
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`testified this morning about your motivation to look for
`additional functionality. Do you remember that?
` A Yes.
` Q So tell me again, why were you motivated to look
`for functionality beyond the order entry functionality
`that you were provided by the GL software?
` A I mean, I was missing prices that I wanted.
`When you're trading, you want -- there's certain things,
`certain expectations you have. You have to have a
`degree of confidence. If you don't have the confidence
`to make the trade -- Because you have to take timing
`into effect, and very small amounts of time. I
`needed -- I was trying to find something, and I don't
`know what the answer was, but I needed something that
`would allow me to hit the right -- hit the price that I
`wanted in these turns in the marketplace.
` Q And you were not only looking for a solution to
`that in GL, but you were looking outside of GL for a
`solution to your price missing problem, right?
` MR. PERKINS: Objection, leading.
` MS. MOFFATT: Join.
` MR. SAMPSON: Q Well, I'll strike that.
` You mentioned this morning that -- You brought
`up that issue of missing your price to Mr. Monroe,
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
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`right?
` A I don't know if I said Mr. Monroe, but -- Yes,
`it's Fred Monroe.
` Q And they didn't have a solution for you, did
`they?
` A No. We were working on it together. We were
`trying to figure out the problem, same with spreading,
`for what we had at our disposal.
` Q And during the time that you were at TransMarket
`Group trading, did you find a solution to that problem
`with Mr. Monroe?
` A No.
` Q Was the first time that you saw a GL vertical
`ladder after TT started selling MD Trader in August of
`2000?
` A I'm sorry?
` Q Was the first time that you saw a GL vertical
`ladder after TT started selling MD Trader in August of
`2000?
` MR. PERKINS: Objection, leading.
` MS. MOFFATT: Join.
` THE WITNESS: Again, a specific time that I would
`have seen it, I don't know, but I was told that -- and
`I'll use the term that was described to me -- everyone
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`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
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`has it, and that was the vertical presentation after TT.
`More and more people had more and more ISVs put into
`their product. So exactly when GL did it and when I
`heard about it, I don't know the time, but it was
`certainly after that they -- that I heard about it.
` MR. SAMPSON: Okay. I have nothing further.
`Thanks.
` RE-EXAMINATION
` by Mr. Perkins:
` MR. PERKINS: Q All right. Just a few follow-ups.
` Does TT connect to any Asian exchange?
` MR. SAMPSON: Vague as to time.
` THE WITNESS: Excuse me?
` MR. SAMPSON: I just objected vague as to time.
` THE WITNESS: Currently?
` MR. PERKINS: Q Currently.
` A Are you saying Asia or Pacific Rim?
` Q Say Asian.
` A Directly or via what I had talked about earlier,
`allowing other --
` Q In any way.
` MR. SAMPSON: Objection to form.
` THE WITNESS: You know, I don't know how I described
`the -- what I had talked about the -- I mean, for the
`
`MERRILL LEGAL SOLUTIONS
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`Page 11 of 11
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2288
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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