In the Matter of:
`
`IBG LLC., ET AL.
`vs.
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL, INC.
`
`___________________________________________________
`
`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA
`June 17, 2016
`
`___________________________________________________
`
`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
`TRADESTATION, IBG, ET AL. v. TRADING TECH
`CBM2015-00179, CBM2015-00181, CBM2015-00182
`
`PAGE 1 OF 81
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`
`
`IBG LLC., ET AL.
`vs.
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL, INC.
`
`___________________________________________________
`
`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA
`June 17, 2016
`
`___________________________________________________
`
`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
`TRADESTATION, IBG, ET AL. v. TRADING TECH
`CBM2015-00179, CBM2015-00181, CBM2015-00182
`
`PAGE 1 OF 81
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`IBG LLC; INTERACTIVE BROKERS )
`LLC; TRADESTATION GROUP, )
`INC.; TRADESTATION )
`SECURITIES, INC.; ) CBM2015-00179
`TRADESTATION TECHNOLOGIES, ) U.S. Patent 7,533,056
`INC., and IBFX, INC.; )
` ) CBM2015-00181
` Petitioners, ) U.S. Patent 7,676,411
` )
` vs. ) CBM2015-00182
` ) U.S. Patent 6,772,132
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES )
`INTERNATIONAL, INC.; )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_______________________________)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ATUSHI KAWASHIMA
` Los Angeles, California
` Friday, Friday 17, 2016
`
`Job No.: WDC-089152
`Reported by:
`Lynda L. Fenn, CSR, RPR
`CSR No. 12566
`
`DTI Court Reporting Solutions - Washington, DC
`1-800-292-4789
`www.deposition.com
`
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 2
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`IBG LLC; INTERACTIVE BROKERS )
`LLC; TRADESTATION GROUP, )
`INC.; TRADESTATION )
`SECURITIES, INC.; ) CBM2015-00179
`TRADESTATION TECHNOLOGIES, ) U.S. Patent 7,533,056
`INC., and IBFX, INC.; )
` ) CBM2015-00181
` Petitioners, ) U.S. Patent 7,676,411
` )
` vs. ) CBM2015-00182
` ) U.S. Patent 6,772,132
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES )
`INTERNATIONAL, INC.; )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_______________________________)
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION of ATUSHI KAWASHIMA,
` taken on behalf of Petitioner, at 633 West
` Fifth Street, Suite 1550, Los Angeles,
` California, at 9:06 a.m. and ending at 1:19
` p.m., Friday, Friday 17, 2016, reported by
` Lynda L. Fenn, CSR No. 12566, Certified
` Shorthand Reporter within and for the State of
` California, pursuant to notice.
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 3
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`APPEARANCES:
`For the Petitioners:
` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN & FOX
` BY: LORI A. GORDON, ESQ.
` 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20005
` (202) 371-2600
` lgordon@skgf.com
` WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI
` BY: NATALIE J. MORGAN, ESQ.
` 12235 El Camino Real, Suite 200
` San Diego, California 92130
` (858) 350-2303
` nmorgan@wsgr.com
`For the Patent Owner:
` For Trading Technologies International, Inc.:
` MCDONNELL BOEHNEN HULBERT & BERGHOFF, LLP
` BY: LEIF R. SIGMOND, JR., ESQ.
` 300 South Wacker Drive
` Chicago, Illinois 60606-6709
` (312) 913-0001
` sigmond@mbhb.com
` FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW, GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
` BY: KEVIN D. RODKEY, ESQ.
` 3500 Suntrust Plaza
` 303 Peachtree Street, NE
` Atlanta, Georgia 30308-3263
` (404) 653-6484
` kevin.rodkey@finnegan.com
` SHIELDS LAW OFFICES
` BY: JEFFREY W. SHIELDS, ESQ.
` 1920 Main Street, Suite 1080
` Irvine, California 92614
` (949) 724-7900
` jeff@shieldslawoffices.com
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 4
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`APPEARANCES (Continued):
`Also Present:
` Yu Kobayashi
` Japan Exchange Group, Inc.
` Manager
` Legal, General Administration
` Legal Affairs of Tokyo Stock Exchange, Inc.
` Legal Affairs of Osaka Exchange, Inc.
` Fritz Sperberg
` Recording Technician
` Christopher Field
` Japanese Interpreter
` Yuko Kashiwagi
` Japanese Check Interpreter
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 5
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` I N D E X
` EXAMINATION BY: PAGE
` MR. SIGMOND 8,60
` MS. GORDON 44
`
` E X H I B I T S
` NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE
` Exhibit 2159 A seven-page, double-sided 30
` Japanese document TSE0000000982
` - TSE0000000995
` Exhibit 1 A one-page Japanese document 47
` with numbered tabs on the right
` beginning with 67
` Exhibit 2 A nine-page Japanese document 47
` with 79 in the upper-right hand
` corner
` Exhibit 3 A one-page Japanese document 47
` Exhibit 4 A five-page Japanese document 47
` with 78 in the upper-right hand
` corner
`
` INFORMATION REQUESTED
` (None)
` INSTRUCTION NOT TO ANSWER
` (None)
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 6
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` Los Angeles, California
` Friday, Friday 17, 2016
` 9:06 a.m. - 1:19 p.m.
`
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Good morning. My name
`is Fritz Sperberg. I'm a recording technician with DTI.
`The court reporter is Lynda Fenn of DTI at 20750 Ventura
`Boulevard, Suite 205, Woodland Hills, California.
` Today's data June 17th, 2016. The time is now
`9:06 a.m. and our location is 633 West Fifth Street in
`Los Angeles, California.
` Counsel, please identify yourselves and state
`whom you represent.
` MR. SIGMOND: My name is Lief Sigmond. I
`represent Trading Technologies. I have with me Kevin
`Rodkey and Jeff Shields, co-counsel, both also
`representing Trading Technologies.
` MS. GORDON: I'm Lori Gordon from the Law Firm
`of Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox representing the
`petitioner. With me today is Natalie Morgan from the
`Law Firm of Wilson Sonsini and Mr. Kobayashi from TSE.
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Could all others
`present please identify yourselves for the record.
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 7
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` THE INTERPRETER: Christopher Field, first
`interpreter.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Yuko Kashiwagi, check
`interpreter.
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Our witness is Atushi
`Kawashima.
` Would the reporter please swear in the
`witness.
`
` CHRISTOPHER FIELD,
`having been first duly sworn to translate from English
`to Japanese, and Japanese to English, did translate the
`following:
`
` MS. KASHIWAGI: The check interpreter also
`considers herself sworn in.
` THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you very much.
` Please raise your right hand.
`
` ATUSHI KAWASHIMA,
`produced as a witness on behalf of the Patent Owner, and
`having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified
`as follows:
`//
`//
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 8
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` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Good morning, Mr. Kawashima. I think you and
`I in this room were the only two people who were at your
`last deposition in Tokyo. I don't know if you remember
`me from years ago.
` A I don't remember who was in the room at the
`time.
` Q I just remember it was a very small room.
` A Yes.
` Q Could you give us your full name and work
`address for the record, please, sir?
` A My name is Atushi Kawashima. And my place of
`work is the Tokyo Stock Exchange and the address of my
`workplace is 2, hyphen, 1 Kabuto-Cho, K-a-b-u-t-o
`hyphen, C-h-o, comma, Nihombashi, N-i-h-o-m-b-a-s-h-i,
`comma, Tokyo.
` Q I know that you had your deposition taken in
`November of 2005.
` Besides that have you ever participated in a
`U.S. deposition?
` A No.
` Q Okay. I'm going to explain to you the
`procedure just so there's no misunderstandings.
` And do you understand, sir, that you are under
`
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 9
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`oath this morning?
` A Yes.
` Q And that means that you're sworn to tell the
`truth as if you were in a United States courtroom with a
`judge and a jury?
` A Yes.
` Q Are you here today voluntarily?
` A Well, what would I say about instructions from
`the company -- directed by the company?
` Q So your company directed you to appear today?
` A Yes.
` Q And who particularly from your company
`directed you to appear today?
` A It would be section manager Tomita,
`To-m-i-a -- T-o-m-i-t-a, of the legal affairs department
`at the Tokyo Stock Exchange.
` Q Are you represented at this deposition by a
`lawyer?
` A No.
` Q As you see here we have two interpreters in
`the room. Mr. Field will interpret my questions and
`will interpret your answers back as he's been doing.
` And Ms. Kashiwagi, whose name I just probably
`mispronounced, will be checking Mr. Field's
`interpretation.
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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` Do you understand that?
` A Yes.
` Q I think you remember from your last deposition
`there were a lot of interpreters in the room?
` A Yes.
` Q So because we have two interpreters, it's
`important that you give them time to consider the
`interpretation. So if you would wait a few seconds
`after my question before you answer, I think it would
`make the reporter's job much easier?
` A Okay.
` Q Is there anything that would prevent you from
`testifying truthfully today?
` A No.
` Q And are you on any medication that would
`prevent you from giving me full and truthful answers?
` A No.
` Q If today you don't understand any of my
`questions, please let me know and I'll try to clarify
`them.
` Will you do that?
` A Okay.
` Q If you don't ask me to clarify, I will assume
`that you understand my question.
` A Okay.
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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` Q And it's very important that you don't guess
`or speculate. I only want answers you know the answer
`to.
` A Okay.
` Q So please only answer the question if you know
`the answer, otherwise tell me that you don't know or
`don't remember.
` A Okay.
` Q And finally, if you need a break today, just
`please let me know.
` A Okay.
` Q Did you do anything to prepare for your
`deposition today?
` A I did prepare.
` Q What did you do?
` A I read a Japanese translation of the
`deposition transcript from the previous deposition.
` Q Did you do anything else to prepare?
` A Yesterday I did a practice run or went through
`anticipated questions that might come out today here
`with these individuals.
` Q When you say, "these individuals," who do you
`mean?
` A I'm not sure about the names. The person next
`to me and then the person next to her.
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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` MR. SIGMOND: And so the record reflects,
`that's Lori Gordon and Natalie Morgan.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q So before we get to that, did you review any
`other documents in preparation for your deposition?
` A Yes, I looked at the participants manual and
`the materials for the briefing that came up at the
`previous deposition.
` Q Besides the participants manual, can you
`describe for me the other -- the materials that came up
`at the previous deposition with more particularity?
` A I'm talking about the materials that were used
`at the participant briefing relating to a futures option
`trading system that was held -- that briefing was held
`in 1997.
` And also the document that was used to give
`notice when the participant manual was distributed.
` Q Who provided these documents to you?
` A At what point in time are you asking about?
` Q Recently.
` A It would be the person I mentioned earlier
`Mr. -- section manager, Tomita of the legal affairs
`department.
` Q And did he provide you with your deposition
`transcript?
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` A Yes.
` Q Did you look for any documents or did he just
`give you kind of a stack of documents?
` A I did not search for them myself.
` Q Are there any other documents you reviewed in
`preparation for your deposition?
` A I also looked at an internal consensus
`document or documents that related to that participant
`briefing meeting that was held and also that notice that
`was sent out with the distribution of the participant
`manuals. I looked, again, at those internal consensus
`documents.
` Q And were they given to you by the legal
`manager, Mr. Tomita?
` A Yes.
` Q Do you know why Mr. Tomita gave you those
`documents to look at?
` A There had been a request from IB -- is it,
`Interactive Brokers -- for materials that would clarify
`the circumstances relating to the distribution of the
`manual and the briefing that was held back at that time
`and so I also looked at those.
` Q Now, yesterday, you met with Ms. Gordon and
`Ms. Morgan for about how long?
` A Three hours or so.
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` Q And you met here in this office?
` A Yes.
` Q And who else was in the room?
` A The interpreter, Mr. Field, and also my
`colleague or, I should say, member of the legal
`department at TSE, Mr. Kobayashi.
` Q And Mr. Kobayashi is here today as part of the
`legal department of TSE?
` A Yes.
` Q What questions did you practice?
` A Things like, for example, talking about my
`employment history or how -- in what form was the '97
`participant briefing conducted. Things like that.
` Q Anything else?
` A Or, for example, how it was that we had people
`come and pick up the manual when it was distributed
`in '98.
` Q Anything else?
` A A question about whether the necessary
`configuration for setting up the system was set forth in
`the manual or not.
` Q Anything else?
` A I think there were other things, but I can't
`remember everything.
` Q Okay. And who asked the practice questions to
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`you?
` A The two attorneys, Lori and the other
`attorney.
` Q The -- do you know why you agreed to meet with
`them yesterday and not us?
` A No, I don't.
` Q Okay. Do you know who told you you were to be
`at a meeting yesterday with Ms. Gordon and Ms. Morgan?
` A The name that I've brought up earlier,
`Mr. Tomita, the section manager in the legal affairs
`department.
` Q Did they give you advice on how to answer the
`questions?
` THE INTERPRETER: "They," the attorneys?
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Did the attorneys yesterday give you advice on
`how to answer questions?
` A They said that I should please answer with
`what I remember.
` Q And did you have any disagreements with the
`attorneys yesterday?
` A I didn't -- I wasn't talking about my
`opinions. I was simply talking about facts yesterday.
` Q And did you remember all the facts that they
`asked you to -- that they asked you about?
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` A Not all.
` Q Do you remember what you didn't remember?
` THE INTERPRETER: Yesterday?
` MR. SIGMOND: Yesterday.
` THE WITNESS: No, I don't.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Besides yesterday, have you ever met with
`attorneys from Interactive Brokers or Tradestations?
` A I have met with the Japanese attorney for --
` THE INTERPRETER: IB.
` THE WITNESS: For -- I think it was for IB.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q When was that?
` A I think it was the latter half -- part of May.
`I don't recall the exact date.
` Q How -- how many meetings -- sorry, do you
`recall the -- that Bengoshi's name?
` MS. GORDON: Objection; form.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Bengoshi, B-e-n-g-o-s-h-i.
` THE INTERPRETER: I'll repeat the question.
` THE WITNESS: Mr. Yanagisawa.
` THE INTERPRETER: Y-a-n-a-g-i-s-a-w-a.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Is that --
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Could you raise your
`
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 17
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`microphone up above that?
` THE INTERPRETER: Sure.
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Thanks.
` THE INTERPRETER: I'll speak up.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q And was he a Benrishi or Bengoshi?
` A Bengoshi.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: B-e-n-r-i-s-h-i.
` MR. SIGMOND: Okay.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q And how many times did you meet with
`Mr. Yanagisawa?
` A Once.
` Q And who else was in that meeting?
` A Section manager, Mr. Tomita from legal affairs
`and Mr. Kobayashi.
` Q And where did that meeting occur?
` A At the Japanese law firm called TMI to which
`Mr. Yanagisawa belongs.
` Q And how long was that meeting?
` A I think it was -- my recollection is it was an
`hour or so.
` Q And what was discussed?
` A The big picture within -- surrounding this
`request for me to testify. What was the context of this
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 18
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`request for me to testify, that was explained to me.
` Q And what was explained to you, particularly?
` A The explanation I received was that in the
`course of the lawsuit that was proceeding involving IB,
`that there had -- was now a review or an adjudication
`regarding a patent or patents between --
` THE INTERPRETER: Is it DT and IB?
` MR. SIGMOND: TT maybe.
` THE WITNESS: TT and IB. And that in that
`context the subject of my 2005 deposition had come up
`again and that was the reason for wanting to -- more
`testimony.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q And you understand that that proceeding is
`between Trading Technologies and Interactive Brokers;
`correct?
` A That's what I heard.
` Q Did you hear about Tradestation?
` MS. GORDON: Objection; relevance.
` THE WITNESS: I have not heard about that.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Did you ever have any meetings with anyone
`else from Interactive Brokers about your previous
`deposition?
` A No.
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 19
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` Q And have you ever -- besides the two meetings
`we've discussed, have you ever met with any other
`Interactive Broker or Tradestation lawyers?
` A No.
` Q Have you ever spoken with any representative
`of IB or Tradestation or their attorneys on the
`telephone?
` A In my first meeting with Mr. Yanagisawa, there
`was an attorney representing IB who participated in
`the -- in a telephone conference.
` Q Do you know who that was?
` A I know his first name was Rob. I'm not sure
`about his last name.
` Q Was it Rob Sokol?
` A Yes.
` Q And what did Mr. Sokol say during that
`meeting?
` A With respect to the testimony, I asked
`questions like where it would be held and by what time
`it had to be held and he answered those questions.
` Q Were you concerned about giving a deposition
`in a United States proceeding?
` A Not in particular.
` Q Okay. Besides the deposition years ago, you
`and I have never spoken about this proceeding; correct?
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 20
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` A Yes.
` Q And you've never met with Mr. Rodkey or
`Mr. Shields before today; correct?
` A No.
` Q Have you met with any lawyers for Trading
`Technologies before today?
` A No.
` Q Have you ever met Ms. Kashiwagi before?
` A No.
` Q And Mr. Field you met yesterday, our
`interpreter; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q Have you ever met with him before that?
` A No.
` Q When you met with -- I apologize, I keep
`getting his name wrong.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Yanagisawa.
` MR. SIGMOND: Yanagisawa.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q When you met with Mr. Yanagisawa, did he say
`anything about Trading Technologies' lawyers?
` A No.
` Q Did -- yesterday when you met with Ms. Gordon,
`did anyone say anything about Trading Technologies'
`lawyers?
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 21
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` A No.
` Q Did you know that I was going to be taking
`your deposition today?
` A No.
` Q At any time has anyone from Interactive
`Brokers or Tradestation, including their lawyers, made a
`representation to you that the U.S. Patent Office wants
`the TSE to volunteer for deposition?
` MS. GORDON: I'm going to object to foundation
`on that question.
` MR. SIGMOND: When she objects you can still
`answer the question.
` THE WITNESS: Can I hear the question again,
`please?
` (The Interpreter repeats the question.)
` THE WITNESS: I am not aware that the request
`came from the USPTO.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q So is the TSE here voluntarily at the request
`of Interactive Brokers?
` MS. GORDON: Objection; form. Objection;
`mischaracterizes the deposition.
` MR. SIGMOND: We have an objection to the
`translation.
` Can you please state it?
`
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
`IBG et al. v. TRADING TECH. - CBM2016-00054
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 22
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` MS. KASHIWAGI: Yes, it's not a real
`objection, but the lead interpreter has phonetically
`translated volunteer. It probably would be better if
`the word was translated.
` THE INTERPRETER: Okay.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Because it has a unique
`meaning when it's phonetically translated.
` The check interpreter will suggest one word
`for volunteer, "jihatsuteki."
` MS. GORDON: Chris, do you -- Mr. Field, did
`you provide my objection to Mr. Kawashima?
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Yes.
` THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
` MS. GORDON: Okay. Thank you.
` THE INTERPRETER: Thank you.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Jihatsuteki,
`j-i-h-a-t-s-u-t-e-k-i.
` THE WITNESS: That's what I have heard, yes.
` MR. SIGMOND: Okay.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Mr. Kawashima, in 1998 you worked for the
`Tokyo Stock Exchange; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And what was your position at that time?
` THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter does not
`
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 23
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`know the official term. Roughly translated it means
`investigative or researcher.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: The check interpreter suggests
`researcher is probably --
` THE INTERPRETER: Closer.
` MS. KASHIWAGI: -- closer.
` THE INTERPRETER: I agree.
` MR. SIGMOND: You accept that?
` THE INTERPRETER: Yes.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q And then in 2005 when your deposition was
`taken, you still worked for the -- sorry -- Tokyo Stock
`Exchange; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And what was your position then?
` A I was also a researcher at the time.
` Q And now we're in 2016.
` Do you still work for the Tokyo Stock
`Exchange?
` A Yes.
` Q And what is your position today?
` A Section manager.
` Q And when did you become section manager?
` A My recollection is that it was in 2008.
` Q Are you the manager of IT services?
`
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 24
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` A Yes.
` Q And what does that entail?
` A The job entails the operation and supervision
`of systems that TSE owns.
` Q And as a researcher, just generally, what did
`your job entail?
` A It would be a staff position under the section
`manager.
` Q And what kind of duties did you have as a
`researcher?
` A In general, you mean?
` Q Yes, in general.
` A I had responsibility for administrative
`procedures on a detailed level for the various sections.
` Q Is the Tokyo Stock Exchange still called the
`Tokyo Stock Exchange?
` A Yes.
` Q What's JPX?
` A It is a company which is held by or owned --
`it is the holding company of the Tokyo Stock Exchange.
` Q But since 1998 until today, you work for Tokyo
`Stock Exchange; correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And today I might refer to it as TSE.
` Will you understand when I say, "TSE," I mean
`
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 25
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`Tokyo Stock Exchange?
` A Yes.
` Q And when I say, "TT," I may be referring -- I
`will be referring to Trading Technologies?
` MS. GORDON: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: Okay.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q And I think you've --
` MS. KASHIWAGI: Excuse me.
` THE INTERPRETER: Oh, I didn't hear it.
` MS. GORDON: I objected to the form.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q And I know you've already referred to
`Interactive Brokers as IB, but if I refer to Interactive
`Brokers as IB, you'll know what I'm talking about today;
`correct?
` A Yes.
` Q When did you -- during this trip when did you
`come to the United States?
` A On June 15th, Wednesday.
` Q Are you being compensated by your time today
`by anyone other than the TSE?
` A No.
` Q So you are just receiving your normal pay for
`being here today?
`
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`Page 26
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` A Yes.
` Q Do you know if Tradestation or IB is
`compensating the TSE for your time?
` A What I heard was that they are covering all of
`the costs involved in my visiting here.
` Q And who did you hear that from?
` A Section manager, Mr. Tomita.
` Q Have you had any other discussions about this
`deposition that I haven't covered yet?
` MS. GORDON: Objection; form.
` THE WITNESS: No.
` MR. SIGMOND: Why don't we take a break.
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Off the record. The
`time is 9:52 a.m.
` (Brief interruption in proceedings.)
` RECORDING TECHNICIAN: Back on the record at
`10:19 a.m.
`BY MR. SIGMOND:
` Q Mr. Kawashima, I want to go back to the -- oh,
`I'm sorry, Kevin Rodkey wants to say something for the
`record.
` MR. RODKEY: We would like to confirm with
`counsel for the -- opposing counsel that the scope of
`this deposition, as agreed by the parties, is the public
`availability, the 1998 manual marked Exhibit No. 1003 in
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`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2163
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`ATUSHI KAWASHIMA - 6/17/2016
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`CBM2015-00179 and the bias of Mr. Kawashima.
` MS. GORDON: Yeah, Counsel, I think that was
`what you re
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