UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEALS BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
`
` IBG LLC and INTERACTIVE :
`
` BROKERS, LLC, :
`
` Petitioners, :
`
` v. : CASE NO. CBM2016-00009
`
` TRADING TECHNOLOGIES : Patent 7,685,055 B2
`
` INTERNATIONAL, INC., :
`
` Patent Owner. :
`
` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
`
` Deposition of DAVID RHO
`
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Tuesday, December 6, 2016
`
` 9:30 a.m.
`
`
`
`Reported by:
`
`Cassandra E. Ellis, RPR
`
`Job No.: 17672
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEALS BOARD
`
`Page 1
`
` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
`
` IBG LLC and INTERACTIVE :
`
` BROKERS, LLC, :
`
` Petitioners, :
`
` v. : CASE NO. CBM2016-00009
`
` TRADING TECHNOLOGIES : Patent 7,685,055 B2
`
` INTERNATIONAL, INC., :
`
` Patent Owner. :
`
` - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - x
`
` Deposition of DAVID RHO
`
` Washington, D.C.
`
` Tuesday, December 6, 2016
`
` 9:30 a.m.
`
`
`
`Reported by:
`
`Cassandra E. Ellis, RPR
`
`Job No.: 17672
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 2
`
` Deposition of DAVID RHO, held at the offices
`
` of Sterne Kessler Goldstein & Fox, 1100 New York
`
` Avenue, Northwest, Washington, D.C. 20005, pursuant
`
` to agreement, before Cassandra E. Ellis, Registered
`
` Professional Reporter, Certified Livenote Reporter,
`
` Realtime Systems Administrator, Certified Court
`
` Reporter - WA, Certified Shorthand Reporter - HA, and
`
` Notary Public of The District of Columbia.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`Page 3
`
` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONERS:
`
` RICHARD M. BEMBEN, ESQUIRE
`
` STERNE KESSLER GOLDSTEIN FOX
`
` 1100 New York Avenue, Northwest
`
` Washington, D.C. 20005
`
` (202) 371-2600
`
` Rbemben@skgf.com
`
` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
`
` MICHAEL D. GANNON, ESQUIRE
`
` COLE B. RICHTER, ESQUIRE
`
` MCDONNELL BOEHNEN HULBERT & BERGHOFF, LLP
`
` 300 South Wacker Drive
`
` Chicago, Illinois 60606
`
` (312) 913-2139
`
` Gannon@mbhb.com
`
` Richter@mbhb.com
`
`
`
` ALSO PRESENT: Robert Sokohl
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 4
`
` C O N T E N T S
`
` EXAMINATION OF DAVID RHO PAGE
`
` By Mr. Gannon 5
`
` By Mr. Bemben 175
`
` By Mr. Gannon 177
`
` E X H I B I T S
`
` (None)
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6 7 8 9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 5
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` P R O C E E D I N G S
`
` DAVID RHO
`
` having been sworn, testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Good morning, Mr. Rho.
`
` A Good morning.
`
` Q Could you state your name for
`
` the record, please?
`
` A Yes. My name is David Rho,
`
` R-h-o.
`
` Q And your address?
`
` A It has changed since last time,
`
` it is 25 Oak Street in Tenafly, New
`
` Jersey.
`
` Q Okay. And since last time, do
`
` you mean --
`
` A T-e-n-e-f-l-y.
`
` Q And since last time do you mean
`
` the last deposition that we took of you
`
` in connection with the `055 patent?
`
` A Yes.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 6
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` Q Okay.
`
` A No, it's T-e-n, T-e-n-a-f-l-y,
`
` Tenafly.
`
` Q And do you understand you're
`
` under oath this morning?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q Is there anything that would
`
` prevent you from giving me full and
`
` truthful answers today?
`
` A I don't believe so, no.
`
` Q Okay. You're not on -- on any
`
` medication that would prevent you from
`
` doing so?
`
` A No, I am not.
`
` Q Okay. So I know you've been
`
` deposed before, I deposed you earlier in
`
` connection with the `055 patent; do you
`
` recall that deposition?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q And that I deposed you prior to
`
` that in some other proceedings; do you
`
` recall that generally?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 7
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A Generally, yes.
`
` Q Okay. So you're familiar with
`
` the deposition process, I won't bore you
`
` with the details, but if there's a -- a
`
` question you don't understand, please ask
`
` me to clarify and I will try to do so; is
`
` that okay?
`
` A Yes, that's fine.
`
` Q Okay. And is it fair of me
`
` assume -- to assume that if I ask you a
`
` question and you answer it that you
`
` understood my question and what I was
`
` asking for?
`
` A Yes, but I would always reserve
`
` the right to update my answer if I
`
` realize I was in error.
`
` Q Okay. And we'll try -- try to
`
` take breaks throughout the day, I don't
`
` expect this to go all day, actually, but
`
` we'll take breaks occasionally, but if
`
` you want to take a break at any time just
`
` let me know and we can do that, okay?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 8
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A Okay, thank you.
`
` Q I just ask that if a question
`
` is pending that you answer the question
`
` before we break, okay?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you prepare for the
`
` deposition today?
`
` A Yes, I did.
`
` Q Okay. What did you do to
`
` prepare?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: I caution the
`
` witness just not to divulge any
`
` privileged or work product. You
`
` can answer.
`
` A I came in yesterday and sat
`
` down with counsel that's here, that's
`
` currently present, and we reviewed
`
` documents and -- and discussed the merits
`
` of the case.
`
` Q Okay. And you say you were
`
` with attorneys, is it the two gentlemen
`
` sitting here today?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 9
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A It is the two gentlemen sitting
`
` here today, yes.
`
` Q Okay. Anybody else?
`
` A No, there was nobody else
`
` present.
`
` Q Okay. What documents did you
`
` review?
`
` A If you look in my deposition,
`
` it was effectively a set of those
`
` documents, not necessarily all of them.
`
` And I reviewed the transcript from my
`
` previous deposition, yes.
`
` Q The previous deposition
`
` relating to the `055 patent?
`
` A Correct, the most -- the most
`
` recent one before this.
`
` Q Okay. And you reviewed
`
` documents identified in your declaration;
`
` is that right?
`
` A Declaration, yes.
`
` Q Okay. And that's your
`
` declaration in support of petitioner's
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 10
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` reply; is that right?
`
` A I -- I believe so, yes.
`
` MR. GANNON: Okay. Oh, and
`
` just for the record, I guess, just
`
` so it's clear to everyone, I'm
`
` sure it wi- -- will not come as a
`
` surprise, we're taking the
`
` deposition today, but we're not
`
` waiving our right, obviously, to
`
` object to petitioner's reply brief
`
` or the declaration of Mr. Rho
`
` supported in connection with the
`
` reply.
`
` So just wanted to state that
`
` for the record, we're not waiving
`
` our right to object to both of
`
` those.
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Your statement
`
` is noted.
`
` MR. GANNON: Okay.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Why don't we -- why don't I
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 11
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` show you your declaration in connection
`
` with the reply brief. It's been marked
`
` as IBG1035 and CVN201600009.
`
` Mr. Rho, I'm handing you
`
` what's been marked as IBG1035. Do you
`
` recognize Exhibit 1035?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And what is it?
`
` A It appears to be my declaration
`
` that I submitted for this particular --
`
` for the `055 patent.
`
` Q Okay. And I see it was dated
`
` November 4, on the last page; is that
`
` right?
`
` A The fourth day of November
`
` 2016, yes.
`
` Q And that's your signature?
`
` A That is my signature.
`
` Q Okay. And this declaration,
`
` and I'll call it your reply declaration,
`
` for short, if that's okay, or we can call
`
` it whatever you'd like, but this reply
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 12
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` declaration, is this a document that you
`
` reviewed in preparation for your
`
` deposition?
`
` A Yes, I did.
`
` Q And the document says that, at
`
` the title of the declaration, says:
`
` "Declaration of David Rho in support of
`
` petitioner's reply to patent owner's
`
` response"; do you see that?
`
` A That is in bold on the first
`
` page, yes.
`
` Q Right. Did you actually review
`
` petitioner's reply?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` form.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q At any time?
`
` A At any time? You're talking at
`
` any time?
`
` Q Yeah.
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q When?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 13
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` A It was subsequent to my writing
`
` this document.
`
` Q Okay. So you didn't look at
`
` the reply prior to signing your
`
` declaration on November 4; is that a fair
`
` statement?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` asked and answered.
`
` A Yeah, I think I answered that
`
` question by my previous answer.
`
` Q And what's your answer? That's
`
` not an objection to not answer so you can
`
` go ahead and answer.
`
` A So did I look at or review the
`
` reply prior to signing this?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Actually, I'm
`
` going to object and assert the
`
` work product doctrine, I'm going
`
` to instruct you not to answer that
`
` question, okay?
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Are you going to follow that
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 14
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` instruction?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Okay. Now, in your reply
`
` declaration, you don't identify the
`
` actual reply brief of the petitioner's;
`
` correct, as something that you reviewed?
`
` A So if you look at paragraph two
`
` of my declaration, I did list out a
`
` number of items, including going on to
`
` page two, there's the one bullet point
`
` there, you'll see that the reply is not
`
` listed there.
`
` Q So you didn't look at the reply
`
` brief or review the reply brief prior to
`
` you signing your reply declaration on
`
` November 4th, 2016; correct?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection, work
`
` product. I instruct you not to
`
` answer that.
`
` THE WITNESS: Okay, so I'm
`
` following my counsel's advice.
`
` ///
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 15
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q And you're not going to answer
`
` that question?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Now, in preparing for your
`
` deposition today, how much time did you
`
` spend preparing? I know you mentioned
`
` you met yesterday, how much time did you
`
` spend?
`
` A It was about one day.
`
` Q Did you spend any time prior to
`
` that preparing for your deposition?
`
` A No, I did not.
`
` Q And again, can you describe
`
` what it is -- what documents you reviewed
`
` in preparation for your deposition?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Again, I'm
`
` going to caution the witness not
`
` to divulge any work product.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Yeah, and I'm not asking for
`
` that, I'm just asking for what documents
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 16
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` you reviewed?
`
` A Well, including the document
`
` that we discussed before, it was a number
`
` of these, I couldn't tell you exactly
`
` which ones, but it was a number of them,
`
` that are listed in paragraph two of my
`
` declaration.
`
` Q Do you remember yesterday which
`
` documents in paragraph two of your
`
` declaration you reviewed?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Again, I'm
`
` going to caution the witness, you
`
` know, not to divulge any work
`
` product and you can answer yes or
`
` no.
`
` A I believe so, yes.
`
` Q Which ones?
`
` A Well, I mentioned the
`
` transcript before, that was certainly
`
` one. The TSE document was certainly one
`
` that I reviewed. The `055 patent
`
` certainly I reviewed. The others I don't
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 17
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` remember how much I might have reviewed
`
` them, but --
`
` Q Okay. In your reply
`
` declaration, Exhibit 1035, why did you
`
` select these particular documents to put
`
` in paragraph two in terms of documents
`
` you reviewed?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` that's work -- covered by the work
`
` product, and I instruct you not to
`
` answer.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm following
`
` my counsel's advice.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Did you prepare Exhibit 1035,
`
` the reply declaration?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: I'm just going
`
` to caution the witness not to
`
` divulge any work product or
`
` privileged communications.
`
` A This document was prepared in
`
` great deal of cooperation with -- with
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 18
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` the attorneys. So did I prepare every
`
` single word? No. But I read this
`
` document from front to back, several
`
` times.
`
` Q When did you start working on
`
` it, do you recall, given the signature
`
` date of November 4?
`
` A I don't recall exactly when.
`
` Q Was it some time in October of
`
` 2016?
`
` A It should have been some time
`
` in October of 2016, yes.
`
` Q Do you know if it was prior to
`
` that, like in September of 2016?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` asked and answered.
`
` A I don't recall.
`
` Q Okay. Let me show you what was
`
` previously marked as Exhibit 1004, which
`
` is the declaration of David Rho in
`
` support of petition for covered business
`
` method review of US patent number
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 19
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` 7,685,055, handing you Exhibit 1004. Do
`
` you recognize Exhibit 1004, Mr. Rho?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And what is it?
`
` A Well, it appears to be my
`
` declaration and the previous declaration
`
` that I did for patent `055.
`
` Q Okay. And this Exhibit 1004 is
`
` referenced in paragraph two of your reply
`
` declaration; correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q So in preparing your reply
`
` declaration you reviewed your previous
`
` declaration, Exhibit 1004; correct?
`
` A Correct.
`
` Q Okay. And if you look at
`
` Exhibit 1004, page 20 -- well, let me --
`
` let me -- let me take a step -- step
`
` back.
`
` With Exhibit -- with respect
`
` to Exhibit 1004, you have a discussion
`
` of TSE starting on page 9 and
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 20
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` continuing on to page 15; is that a
`
` fair statement?
`
` A I'm sorry, could you ask the
`
` question again?
`
` Q Sure. In Exhibit 1004, you
`
` have a section labeled TSE Section IV,
`
` and it starts on page 9 and it continues
`
` through page 15; do you see that?
`
` A Yes, I do.
`
` Q And that's an overview of TSE;
`
` right?
`
` A Well, at the top of page nine
`
` of my declaration, it says: "Subsection
`
` A overview," so yes.
`
` Q Okay. And then in your reply
`
` declaration, Exhibit 1035, you have a
`
` Section IV entitled overview of TSE,
`
` starts on page 5, and it continues
`
` through page 12 or at least part of page
`
` 12; do you see that?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Are there any differences
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 21
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` between those two overviews of TSE and
`
` the two declarations that you recall, or
`
` is it -- is one just a carbon copy of the
`
` other?
`
` A Would you like me to do a
`
` comparison of the two?
`
` Q Well, I'm just asking if you
`
` recall in preparing your declaration,
`
` your reply declaration, Exhibit 1035,
`
` when you included an overview of TSE,
`
` whether you had just lifted that from
`
` your previous declaration?
`
` A Well, without sitting here and
`
` doing a word for word comparison, that
`
` sounds accurate, but I haven't done the
`
` word for word comparison between the two.
`
` Q And by the way, when you were
`
` preparing for your deposition, you
`
` reviewed your transcript, that was the
`
` transcript from July 14, 2016, that
`
` deposition; is that -- is that right?
`
` A I'm sorry, could you ask the
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 22
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` question again?
`
` Q Sure. When you were preparing
`
` for your deposition you mentioned you
`
` reviewed a deposition transcript, was
`
` that the July 14, 2016 transcript?
`
` A I believe so, yes.
`
` Q Okay. When you were reviewing
`
` that transcript did you see anything in
`
` that transcript that you thought was an
`
` error or was inaccurate or was there
`
` anything that you thought you wanted to
`
` clarify with respect to that transcript?
`
` A I think when I read through it
`
` again I saw maybe some typos. But other
`
` than that, the substantive body of it,
`
` no, there was nothing that I wished to
`
` add to that.
`
` Q Okay. All right. And now,
`
` going back to Exhibit 1004, after you did
`
` your overview of TSE you have a section
`
` on claim one; do you see that, starting
`
` on page 15?
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 23
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` MR. BEMBEN: So I'm going to
`
` object to scope, here. And I'll
`
` give you a little bit of latitude
`
` on this, but you had an
`
` opportunity to depose him on
`
` Exhibit 1004, and you've already
`
` taken that deposition, this
`
` deposition is for the reply
`
` declaration, Exhibit 1035.
`
` MR. GANNON: Okay.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Do you see that, Mr. Rho?
`
` A It starts with subsection B,
`
` claim one, yes.
`
` Q Right. And -- and then after
`
` that it appears like starting on page 17,
`
` for example, and continuing on through
`
` page, I guess it's page 24, you go
`
` through claim one and the TSE reference;
`
` is that a fair statement?
`
` A I don't see references to any
`
` documents outside of TSE, so that seems
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 24
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` to be a fair statement.
`
` Q Okay. And then on page 20 of
`
` your declaration, 1004, Exhibit 1004,
`
` same declaration, page 20, there's a
`
` screen shot of TSE at the top; do you see
`
` that?
`
` A Well, this is a figure that
`
` comes from page -- I assume, this -- this
`
` reference is correct, it comes from page
`
` 68 of the TSE document.
`
` Q Right. And is it fair to say
`
` that what you were doing here was you
`
` were showing switching between compressed
`
` to uncompressed to show one or more
`
` elements of claim one of the `055 patent?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry,
`
` could you restate the question?
`
` MR. GANNON: Sure.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q And is it fair to say that when
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 25
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` you -- that what you were doing on page
`
` 20 of your declaration Exhibit 1004, is
`
` that you were showing TSE switching
`
` between compressed and uncompressed to
`
` show one or more elements of the claim,
`
` such as, for example, the adjusting step?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` scope. Again, counsel, you have
`
` had the opportunity to depose
`
` Mr. Rho on the declaration, you've
`
` done that.
`
` If we continue down this
`
` line we're going to stop it and
`
` we're going to go to the court.
`
` MR. GANNON: I'm laying
`
` foundation for further questions
`
` that I have.
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Okay. Well,
`
` I'm just letting you know that
`
` you've already had an opportunity
`
` to depose him on this declaration.
`
` We're not going to go much further
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 26
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` down this road.
`
` A Well, I refer to my
`
` declaration, this is the Exhibit 1004,
`
` starting at paragraph 41, actually just
`
` subsequent to that, I had the claim
`
` language listed there: "In response to
`
` an input command received via an input
`
` device associated with a computing device
`
` adjusting the first plurality price
`
` levels," dot, dot, dot.
`
` "As discussed above, a trader
`
` can select from two price display
`
` methods, non-compressed or compressed,
`
` for each display board screen.
`
` Specifically, a trader can toggle between
`
` the non-compressed and compressed display
`
` modes of the board screen using a radio
`
` button.
`
` In the non-compressed method,
`
` regardless of the existence of the
`
` orders, et cetera, at the corresponding
`
` price, it is a method to display all
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 27
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` prices on the board.
`
` "The compressed method, on the
`
` other hand, displays only the price that
`
` satisfies the following requirements out
`
` of the prices on the board, including the
`
` current price with an order, the latest
`
` agreement price, including the standard
`
` price of the day, the quotation display
`
` price, and the matching price."
`
` There's some additional text
`
` here: "Mode that displays only
`
` designated prices, such as a price for
`
` which there is an order."
`
` Continuing on to paragraph 42,
`
` "The figure on 0068 of the TSE is
`
` reproduced below. In this example, the
`
` compressed display has three price
`
` levels, 002, 004, and 007, for example, a
`
` first plurality of price levels. The
`
` non-compressed display has seven price
`
` levels, 001, 002, 003, 004, 005, 006,
`
` 007, for example, an adjusted plurality
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 28
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` of price levels, which include the three
`
` levels that are displayed on the
`
` compressed display.
`
` "Thus, when a trader using
`
` TSE transitions from the compressed
`
` display to the non-compressed display,
`
` by selecting the radio button," in
`
` quotes, "in response to an input
`
` command, TSE display adjusts the first
`
` plurality of price levels among a
`
` range of price levels to an adjusted
`
` plurality of price levels, including
`
` the first plurality of price levels."
`
` Q So what you read, you were
`
` relying on TSE switching from compressed
`
` to uncompressed to meet --
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` scope.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q To meet the adjusting step;
`
` correct?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 29
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` scope.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q To meet -- to meet the
`
` adjusting -- so what you were reading,
`
` Mr. Rho, is from your earlier
`
` declaration. You were relying on going
`
` from compressed to uncompressed to show
`
` the adjusting step; is that a fair
`
` statement?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` form, scope.
`
` A Well, I reread the last
`
` sentence in paragraph 42: "Thus, when a
`
` trader uses TSE transitions from the
`
` compressed display to the non-compressed
`
` display by selecting the radio button,
`
` again, in response to an input command,
`
` that's," in quotes, "TSE's display
`
` adjusts the first plurality of price
`
` levels among the range of price levels to
`
` an adjusted plurality of price levels,
`
` including the first plurality of price
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 30
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` levels."
`
` Q And what you're saying there is
`
` you're relying on TSE going from
`
` compressed to uncompressed to show that
`
` adjusting step; correct?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` misstates his testimony, asked and
`
` answered, scope.
`
` A Yeah, I -- I think that that
`
` final sentence in 42 speaks for itself,
`
` and answers my question -- and answers
`
` your question.
`
` Q Okay. The figure that you show
`
` on page 20 of the compressed mode; do you
`
` see that?
`
` A The figure on page 20? On the
`
` right-hand side of that figure is the
`
` compressed price display method.
`
` Q And is that scrolled or
`
` unscrolled?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` scope.
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 31
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry,
`
` could you please rephrase the
`
` question?
`
` MR. GANNON: Sure.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q That compressed screen that you
`
` show on page 20 is that shown in
`
` scrolling mode or unscrolled mode?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection, this
`
` is outside the scope, and I'm
`
` going to instruct the witness not
`
` to answer at this point.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm following
`
` my counsel's advice.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q All right. Well, let me ask
`
` you, on page three of Exhibit 1035, if
`
` you could look at page three of your
`
` reply declaration, same question.
`
` A Based on my understanding of
`
` the TSE document, which I don't currently
`
` have in front of me, by the way, because
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 32
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` of the existence of over and under the
`
` over at the top part of the price axis,
`
` under at the bottom part of the price
`
` axis, this is in non-scrolling mode, this
`
` is the --
`
` Q All right. And then, going
`
` back to Exhibit 1004, on page 20, that
`
` figure at the top of the page, is that
`
` what's shown also in the compressed
`
` screen on the right?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` scope. Again, I'm going to
`
` instruct the witness not to
`
` answer.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm following
`
` my counsel's advice.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Okay. You're going to follow
`
` that instruction and refuse to answer
`
` that question?
`
` A I think it's wise to always
`
` follow -- follow counsel's advice when --
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 33
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` yes.
`
` Q Okay. So let's look at your
`
` reply declaration, Exhibit 1035, in
`
` particular, Section V, starting on page
`
` 12. And Section V is on page 12 and 13
`
` of Exhibit 1035. And Section V is
`
` entitled "TSE's price axis is static when
`
` the display is in the Scrolling Screen
`
` Mode with a compressed price display"; do
`
` you see that?
`
` A On page 12? Yes, and it's in
`
` bold on that page.
`
` Q Okay. So you're putting forth
`
` that opinion on pages 12 and 13 of your
`
` reply declaration; correct?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` document speaks for itself.
`
` A I believe so, yes.
`
` Q Okay. Is it fair to say that
`
` that opinion, that TSE's price axis is
`
` static when the display is in the
`
` Scrolling Screen Mode with a compressed
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 34
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` price display, as you say, that opinion
`
` is not in your earlier declaration,
`
` Exhibit 1004?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` scope. Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I'm sorry,
`
` could you rephrase the question?
`
` MR. GANNON: Sure.
`
` BY MR. GANNON:
`
` Q Your opinion in Exhibit 1035,
`
` your reply declaration, when you say:
`
` "TSE's price axis is static when the
`
` display is in the Scrolling Screen Mode
`
` with a compressed price display," that
`
` that opinion is not anywhere in your
`
` earlier declaration, Exhibit 1004?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` scope and form.
`
` A Well, I haven't done a detailed
`
` re-reading of Exhibit 1004, but it
`
` doesn't appear to be in there.
`
` Q Okay. All right. Let's take a
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 35
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` look at your reply declaration, Exhibit
`
` 1035, starting at page 14, you have a
`
` heading number -- Roman numeral VI, that
`
` continues on page 14 and 15 and part of
`
` 16; do you see that section?
`
` A It's Section VI, that starts
`
` with what you stated before, in bold,
`
` yes.
`
` Q Okay. And in your reply
`
` declaration in that Section VI, Roman
`
` numeral VI, you say that: "Transitioning
`
` TSE's display from a non-compressed
`
` 'Board x 4' to a non-compressed 'Board x
`
` 2' mode meets the adjusting step,
`
` essentially," and I'm paraphrasing, here,
`
` but is that a fair statement?
`
` MR. BEMBEN: Objection,
`
` document speaks for itself,
`
` misstates his testimony.
`
` A Well, I would read from my
`
` declaration the first sentence in
`
` paragraph 23: "Regardless, transitioning
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`
`
`Page 36
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
` TSE's display from a non-compressed
`
` 'Board x 4' display to a non-compressed
`
` 'Board x 2' display, adds price levels
`
` even
Accessing this document will incur an additional charge of $.
After purchase, you can access this document again without charge.
Accept $ Charge
Still Working On It
This document is taking longer than usual to download. This can happen if we need to contact the court directly to obtain the document and their servers are running slowly.
Give it another minute or two to complete, and then try the refresh button.
A few More Minutes ... Still Working
It can take up to 5 minutes for us to download a document if the court servers are running slowly.
Thank you for your continued patience.
This document could not be displayed.
We could not find this document within its docket. Please go back to the docket page and check the link. If that does not work, go back to the docket and refresh it to pull the newest information.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
You need a Paid Account to view this document. Click here to change your account type.
Your account does not support viewing this document.
Set your membership
status to view this document.
With a Docket Alarm membership, you'll
get a whole lot more, including:
- Up-to-date information for this case.
- Email alerts whenever there is an update.
- Full text search for other cases.
- Get email alerts whenever a new case matches your search.
One Moment Please
The filing “” is large (MB) and is being downloaded.
Please refresh this page in a few minutes to see if the filing has been downloaded. The filing will also be emailed to you when the download completes.
Your document is on its way!
If you do not receive the document in five minutes, contact support at support@docketalarm.com.
Sealed Document
We are unable to display this document, it may be under a court ordered seal.
If you have proper credentials to access the file, you may proceed directly to the court's system using your government issued username and password.
Access Government Site
